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Tugger
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The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:43 am

It still needs to get past Congress and that is still a big question mark but the leaders of Congress and the President have a deal. Will it properly address the problems and will it make things better into the future?

Quote:
According to information from the White House and a PowerPoint presentation for his colleagues by House Speaker John Boehner, the proposed deal includes $2.4 trillion in deficit reduction over 10 years while authorizing an increase in the federal debt ceiling by a slightly smaller amount to allow the government to pay its debts through 2012.

The agreement proposes a two-stage process.

In the first stage, it includes $917 billion in spending cuts and other deficit reduction now, as well as a $900 billion increase in the debt ceiling.

Because of the pending Tuesday deadline, Obama would have immediate authority to raise the debt ceiling by $400 billion, which will last through September, according to the White House document. For the other $500 billion of debt ceiling extension in the first stage, Congress can vote on resolutions of disapproval that, if passed, the president can then veto, the White House said.

In the second stage, a special joint committee of Congress will recommend further deficit reduction steps totaling $1.5 trillion or more by the end of November, with Congress obligated to vote on the panel's proposals by the end of the year.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/07/31/debt.talks/index.html

It is possible that the deal will be voted on as soon as tomorrow night.

Tugg

[Edited 2011-07-31 21:57:56]
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Mortyman
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:54 am

From what can I understand, this deal has been wateredown so much that it wont have any effect, other than extending the problems into the future...
 
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WarRI1
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:00 am

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 1):
From what can I understand, this deal has been wateredown so much that it wont have any effect, other than extending the problems into the future...

Would we expect anything else from this bunch of actors, not leaders, actors, playing, pandering as usual to get re-elected and therfore wealthy.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
sleekjet
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:01 am

I doubt that it will pass Congress. Too watered down, too little cutting. Too many Congressmen still don't get it.
II Cor. 4:17-18
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:31 am

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 1):
this deal has been wateredown so much that it wont have any effect, other than extending the problems into the future...

Exactly. Raising the debt ceiling will only make things worse --> more debt to pay off.
OK. They decided on 1 Trillion spending cuts with "immediate" effect. As if they were going to do it.

Obama claims this deal is "his" victory.
It can only make voters angry as far as I can see.

They should cut all politicos benefits - the President, Congressmen, Senators, and all those in the government. No more perks, no more jets, no more motorcades and flashy cars. This is where they should start the spending cuts.

Increase taxes on Big Corporate, Big Finance and the Mega-Rich.
It's the small working class who will have to pay again - as usual.

 
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dragon-wings
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:00 am

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 1):
From what can I understand, this deal has been wateredown so much that it wont have any effect, other than extending the problems into the future...

Boehner said this bill has 98% of what the Republicans wanted. Where is the bipartisan? It's 98% of what the Republicans originaly wanted and yet the final product is still watered down!

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 4):
Increase taxes on Big Corporate, Big Finance and the Mega-Rich.

The Teaparty does not want taxes on the rich.  
Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano
 
baroque
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:09 am

Quoting tugger (Thread starter):
. Will it properly address the problems and will it make things better into the future?

Well it certainly does not properly address the problems, but as the other option was horrific, it will make things better than they would have been but still not very good.

And it appears that the TP gets more and more entrenched by the day - if that is possible.

Savings are only token and courtesy of the TP, no additional income. Probably just enough cuts to send the US economy back into recession. But better than what was on offer last week, total collapse!! Childish is the word that comes to mind, but then again that is an insult to children.

And then again, not certain it will pass the House.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:11 am

They just "bought" the U.S. another year or so. Next summer, it will be déja vu (but asking for an even higher debt ceiling).
Kicking the can down the road..Nothing has changed.

 

US debt problem visualized: Debt stacked in 100 dollar bills
http://usdebt.kleptocracy.us/


 
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rampart
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:47 am

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 7):
US debt problem visualized: Debt stacked in 100 dollar bills

Short timeline of said debt visualized:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/infographics/us-national-debt

It took just 11 years.

-Rampart
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:57 am

Quoting tugger (Thread starter):
as well as a $900 billion increase in the debt ceiling.

They can start borrowing more money from China.


 Wow!
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Mir
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:24 am

Quoting tugger (Thread starter):
Will it properly address the problems and will it make things better into the future?

It will prevent default, and it gives the US credit rating a better chance of remaining intact. But not much more than that. Without any revenue increasing measures, it's just going to erode the buying power of the middle and lower classes more, and that's going to make it harder to get a recovery going because the market for goods and services is going to be weaker than it ought to be.

“Unemployment will be higher than it would have been otherwise,” Mohamed El-Erian, chief executive of the bond investment firm Pimco, said Sunday on ABC. “Growth will be lower than it would be otherwise. And inequality will be worse than it would be otherwise.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/01/us/politics/01econ.html

He added, “We have a very weak economy, so withdrawing more spending at this stage will make it even weaker.”


Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 4):
Raising the debt ceiling will only make things worse --> more debt to pay off.

It's debt that was previously agreed to. Raising the debt ceiling doesn't mean that Congress has to agree to any new spending.

-Mir
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Rara
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:11 am

From what I understand, it's going to be pretty tough on the little people, while leaving the rich and super-rich alone.

Honestly? I couldn't care less. From my perspective, the budget deal is going to keep the US from becoming bankrupt and from negatively influencing European economies. So I'm all for it. Sure I feel sorry for the millions of working poor who are going to pay the price for that. But in a way, it's their own fault. Everybody in the US can vote. It's time for people to put their crosses where their mouth is. If you keep on electing folks that do everything they can to make the rich few richer and the poor many poorer, then it's your own fault really.
Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:17 am

Quoting Rara (Reply 11):
From what I understand, it's going to be pretty tough on the little people, while leaving the rich and super-rich alone.

Change you can believe in.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_cFik-09_h...TI5le_8u8Xo/s1600/obama-change.jpg

 

Let's see if it will get voted.
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Rara
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:05 am

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 12):

Change you can believe in.

It's not exactly Obama's fault, is it.
Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:44 am

Quoting Rara (Reply 13):
It's not exactly Obama's fault, is it.

While Congress is locked in stalemate, across the Potomac river one of America's poorest areas remains unseen and unheard
...

The compromise deal emerging could cut trillions from the federal budget over the next decade, and that will mean fewer jobs and the probability that welfare benefits will be slashed. Life for the residents of Ward Eight and millions of Americans like them will almost certainly become even harder.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011.../us-debt-crisis-washington-poverty

They tell us the Republicrats agreed to a solution and now only need to vote on it. Guess what... increasing of the debt ceiling while cutting social stuff about a Trillion.

 

[Edited 2011-08-01 04:49:27]
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dxing
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:57 am

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 1):
From what can I understand, this deal has been wateredown so much that it wont have any effect, other than extending the problems into the future...

All it does is kick the can. If there is one bright spot it is that the Constitutional amendment to balance the budget will finally get a vote in both Houses.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 4):
Obama claims this deal is "his" victory.

He can if he wants but most people know that due to his lack of putting forth any plan whatsoever, he sidelined himself pretty early on. I think most people now see him for what he isn't.

Quoting dragon-wings (Reply 5):
The Teaparty does not want taxes on the rich.

To be fair they don't want taxes raised on anyone.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 6):
And then again, not certain it will pass the House.

No, it is not. Interestingly the minority leader was quite specific about saying she would have to read the bill before deciding on how she will vote. Quite the contrast from when she was Speaker and we had to pass the bill to find out what was in it!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...gIQA1EEKmI_blog.html?wprss=the-fix

First, Pelosi said of the deal: “We all may not be able to support it, or none us may be able to support it.” Then, later in the evening she folowed up with this lukewarm comment: “I look forward to reviewing the legislation with my caucus to see what level of support we can provide.”

Quoting Mir (Reply 10):
Without any revenue increasing measures, it's just going to erode the buying power of the middle and lower classes more, and that's going to make it harder to get a recovery going because the market for goods and services is going to be weaker than it ought to be.
“Unemployment will be higher than it would have been otherwise,” Mohamed El-Erian, chief executive of the bond investment firm Pimco, said Sunday on ABC. “Growth will be lower than it would be otherwise. And inequality will be worse than it would be otherwise.”

Disagree. We are talking about roughly 200 billion a year over ten years. That's on a 1.5 trillion annual budget. If we just froze spending and reduced by 1% year after year we could achieve more than that. As to the comments from the article, seems to me they said just the same thing about the stimulus bill, if we didn't spend a huge amount we'd see higher unemployment, lower growth, and the inequality would be worse than ever. Can't have it both ways.
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PanHAM
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:03 pm

The answer is NO. Even if it passes both houses it will not work in the long run.

I have nothing against lobbyists, I believe they are necessary to make statements and presentations when it comes to decide on issues the single congressman or senator may not know in depth. There is rather too few loyybing when i look at all the BS the war on terror created. Especially viewing that from an experts point of view like a freight forwarder who has been in international shipping by air, sea and road for over 4 decades and who has to deal with the extraordinary BS created by politicians and the authorities they created. It does not work, it costs too much money and contributes to the financial problems the US are fighting.

Then I hear about a man named Norquist, who coerces Republican Senators and Congressmen forcing them to sign a petition that they will not vote to increase taxes. If they do not sign, they will all of a sudden find competition in their constituency. As said., lobbying is alright, but using such kind of force in a country where saying NO to a police officer is a crime makes me shudder. Mr. Norquist should be arrested and tried on the count of coercion and/or compulsion, what he does cannot be right in a democracy.
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Dreadnought
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:06 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 4):
Increase taxes on Big Corporate, Big Finance and the Mega-Rich.
It's the small working class who will have to pay again - as usual.

  If you consider the "small working class" to be the poorest 50% of the population pay about 2.1% of the income taxes, how can you say they are paying?

Another note - people like to trash the Tea Party for holding firm, but nobody mentions the far left caucus in the Senate which also prevented any sort of deal over the past few weeks. If you want to blame extremeists, should not both extremes get equal blame?

About the deal - I expect the results to be:

1) It will avoid default, but will not avoid a downgrade.

2) Spending cuts are inconsequential, no change in taxes = status quo. Congress is unable to commit to anything beyond 1 year.

3) The only possible upside = a Balanced Budget Amendment is now on the table.
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MadameConcorde
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:38 pm

Raising the debt ceiling = going into more debt

The real questions are here::

Why are they in this debt?

Where is most of the money that is actually owed?

Will raising the debt ceiling - or/and making the cuts the Republicrats are calling for - fix things?

   
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
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casinterest
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:40 pm

Quoting dxing (Reply 15):
All it does is kick the can. If there is one bright spot it is that the Constitutional amendment to balance the budget will finally get a vote in both Houses.

Where it will fail in the senate. , and I actually suspect in the house as well, but then again I think the house would vote for it , just knowing the senate will kill it.

Quoting dxing (Reply 15):
He can if he wants but most people know that due to his lack of putting forth any plan whatsoever, he sidelined himself pretty early on. I think most people now see him for what he isn't.

His plan was to cut spending and to increase revenue. Two non flyers in this economy. This vote is all about the debt cieling and not the budget though , so he didn't have to submit a budget on it.

Quoting dxing (Reply 15):
To be fair they don't want taxes raised on anyone.

The Tea Party still suffers from a math problem, and this current "budget" is going to highlight it. Services are going to have to get cut, or revenue will have to go up in the future, and the current plan of defense cuts kicking in automatically are going to put a lot of senators and representatives in a hard postion of cutting social security/Medicare benefits or cutting defense spending.

Quoting dxing (Reply 15):
If we just froze spending and reduced by 1% year after year we could achieve more than that.

I agree with that. I think Governement would be far better off if there was a mandatory freeze and 1-2% cut in spending until the budget balanced, but that would mean making cuts in areas folks don't want to cut.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 17):
1) It will avoid default, but will not avoid a downgrade.

I am not sure about that. if they downgrade the credit the Dollar , the Euro and Remnabi would go right with it.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
NIKV69
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:43 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 4):
Obama claims this deal is "his" victory.
It can only make voters angry as far as I can see.

It is a victory because it averted disaster and using the 14th ammendment would have driven the independents further away. This gives him a shot at appearing like Clinton and thus a chance at a second term.

His voters are livid but they will still vote for him for they hate the GOP.

Quoting dragon-wings (Reply 5):
Boehner said this bill has 98% of what the Republicans wanted. Where is the bipartisan?

Republicans won the last election.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 17):
If you consider the "small working class" to be the poorest 50% of the population pay about 2.1% of the income taxes, how can you say they are paying?

You can't it's just a hate rich rant.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 17):
The only possible upside = a Balanced Budget Amendment is now on the table.

This is the biggest plus. The Dem party of today is not the Dem party when Clinton was President. A balanced budget means moving to the right and embracing politicians like Andrew Cuomo which Pelosi wants to avoid at all costs and install a huge overreaching government like in CA. So paying the bills in counterproductive and the "Bush screwed us we need a huge government with no defense" will only last so long. She feels her grip on power slipping and this past weekend we may have saw the changing of the guard.
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Flighty
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:52 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 18):
Raising the debt ceiling = going into more debt

Right, which is the end of the USA in about the middle of my career (15 or 20 years down the line). No thanks. The Baby Boomers can go ahead and cut/tax their way to not only a balanced budget, but a paid off debt. I would like to see them start now. The government has grown by 50% in just the last few years. The cuts needed are massive just to slim down to early 2000s (extremely bloated) levels.

2012 budget: $3.73 trillion
2002 budget: $2.2 trillion
2000 budget: $1.8 trillion

I can see $20 trillion over 10 years savings right there. It wasn't even hard. Take the 2002 budget and endorse it for 2013. Cut entitlements to an affordable level. Otherwise they are cutting ME to a level THEY find affordable. Good luck with that; I am mobile. The young not intend to pay these baby boomer debts.
 
dxing
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:57 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 19):
Where it will fail in the senate. , and I actually suspect in the house as well, but then again I think the house would vote for it , just knowing the senate will kill it.

I think you might get surprised. Plenty of democrats have supported a balanced budget amendment in the recent past. It all depends on how it is written as their main objection has always been that they didn't want it to be a cut and dry balance without any provision for emergencies or the 2/3's yea vote in both houses to raise taxes. If those objections can be worked on then its chances go way up as politicians are not blind to the fact that 75% or the general population believes it would be a good thing to have.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 19):
His plan was to cut spending and to increase revenue.

My plan is to have a net worth of over a million dollars by the time I retire. Sounds good but without a plan on paper on how to get there its just an idea. That's our President in a nutshell, long on ideas, short on plans. To be an effective leader you have to have ideas and plans on how to get them from idea to reality.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 19):
The Tea Party still suffers from a math problem,

The government suffers from a math problem.
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FlyPNS1
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:07 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 21):
I can see $20 trillion over 10 years savings right there. It wasn't even hard. Take the 2002 budget and endorse it for 2013. Cut entitlements to an affordable level.

And what happens to the millions of people who lose their jobs when these cuts happen?

Quoting dxing (Reply 22):
If those objections can be worked on then its chances go way up as politicians are not blind to the fact that 75% or the general population believes it would be a good thing to have.

Until they find out that balancing the budget requires gutting their Social Security checks, gutting their healthcare, stopping all investment in infrastructure and laying off millions. The balanced budget amendment will fall out of favor real fast then.

Of course, this still fails to answer the fundamental question. How will gutting government spending create jobs...particularly good paying jobs?
 
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casinterest
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:21 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 23):
And what happens to the millions of people who lose their jobs when these cuts happen?

They go on welfare and emergency funds have to be written into the budget again. As well as their decreased taxable salaries .

Quoting dxing (Reply 22):
My plan is to have a net worth of over a million dollars by the time I retire. Sounds good but without a plan on paper on how to get there its just an idea. That's our President in a nutshell, long on ideas, short on plans. To be an effective leader you have to have ideas and plans on how to get them from idea to reality.

His budget wasn't part of this deal.



But you want the plans.
2011
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy11/index.html
2012
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Overview/

Quoting dxing (Reply 22):
Quoting casinterest (Reply 19):
The Tea Party still suffers from a math problem,

The government suffers from a math problem.

Yes it does, but the Tea Party continues to believe they can just all out hack the budget by not raising the ceiling with no dire consequences. It not only shows a lack of math skills, but a lack of common sense.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/08/01/bachmann.debt.vote/
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:38 pm

Obama is not responsible?

Why did they have General Electric paying zero federal taxes the last 3 years in a row?

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/gener...deral-taxes-2010/story?id=13224558
http://dailybail.com/home/jack-caffe...for-2009-2010-corporations-ow.html
http://www.newser.com/story/115149/j...ts-i-give-up-daily-show-video.html

All the while they are moving one of the last divisions they had in North America US and Canada (their giant X-Ray manufacturing division including government contracts for airports) both medical and security - that is moving to China and there is bailout money involved in it?

You are paying to get your jobs shipped... and this is not all. GE aren't the only Big Corp to receive waivers from the Obama administration and moving jobs to cheap labour cost countries overseas.

[Edited 2011-08-01 06:40:26]
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baroque
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:38 pm

Quoting dxing (Reply 15):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 6):
And then again, not certain it will pass the House.

No, it is not. Interestingly the minority leader was quite specific about saying she would have to read

Interesting to wonder what each of us personally would do if faced with the choice of for or against. I guess I would have to be for, but not before I had told a few folk what I thought of them, probably on my own side as well as the other, whichever side I happened to be on!!

Tell you what though, I still think compromise is commonly the best strategy, as in learn from opposing views. But the past couple of years of US compromise is giving the term a really really bad name. Most of the compromises seem to be close to picking the worst out of each side and selling the product as a "result".

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 23):
And what happens to the millions of people who lose their jobs when these cuts happen?

I am beginning to give up on the US. Time was when one sort of knew the answer to this, but now I just shudder.

At least you'all are giving us a heap of object lessons in what not to do. But that is as near a positive as I can come up with.

In amusing news, the Asian and Aus stockmarkets reacted as if Mafeking had been relieved to think of an inappropriate analogy. Wonder how they will go after they have had time to think about it!
 
flyAUA
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:40 pm

WOW! Bad for the USA. Bad for Airbus which still sells frames in US$ instead of €. Good for tourists visiting and wanting to do a lot of shopping!
Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
 
Flighty
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:54 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 23):
And what happens to the millions of people who lose their jobs when these cuts happen?

What about the millions of people cut from the private sector because the USA looks like an unreliable place to do business and park your money in the future? That already happened.

I'm saying, get those people re-hired. The govt employees can serve coffee and fries, or pick apples maybe.
 
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par13del
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:55 pm

This is not a budget so no, it will not have significant impact on the country going forward, more significant things will come when and if the President presents a budget to the congress that is actually passable by both houses.
It is possible that this crisis could have been averted if the US had a budget the last couple years, as items in the budget may have addressed the impending debt limit frontier.

Quoting dragon-wings (Reply 5):
Boehner said this bill has 98% of what the Republicans wanted. Where is the bipartisan? It's 98% of what the Republicans originaly wanted and yet the final product is still watered down!

This bill was about raising the debt limit, that comes from spending money as some say on a credit card. So if this is to be addressed, where exactly do you expect the majority of the hit to fall?
When the deficits are addressed the biggest hit will be taken from spending, that cannot be escaped, yes one can raise tax rates and close loopholes, unfortunately, the average American prefers to keep his money, they are not against taxes but they are definately against major taxes on themselves, one also has to remember that Federal Taxes have noting to do with state taxes which the majority of the population pay and cannot escape.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 23):
And what happens to the millions of people who lose their jobs when these cuts happen?

What the debt crisis in Europe and other countries highlight is the built in intransigence of governmental jobs, when times are good the numbers increase, when times are bad the numbers increase even more. The US needs to take advantage of one of the quirks in their form of government, whenver there is an administration change, thousands of civil service jobs are automatically terminated, perhaps in the next election that should also be looked at by those running fro president in reducing the size of the federal government on the labour pool. Since the jobs are automatically terminated, not re-instating the majority will be a savings, it certainely demands some work in identification and consolidation, but the optionis there and it is none political.

It is not good for any nation to have the government as a large employer, workers tend to adapt the mindset that they cannot be fired after all its their job, credit agencies tend to give loans to those workers automatically because they work for government and will always have a paycheck, the list of unintended consequences is long. Since you cannot legislate everything, better to avoid the issue altogether.
 
dxing
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:58 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 23):

Until they find out that balancing the budget requires gutting their Social Security checks, gutting their healthcare, stopping all investment in infrastructure and laying off millions. The balanced budget amendment will fall out of favor real fast then.

Nice try at scare mongering. None of the plans laid out to salvage SS guts anyones checks. Obamacare needs to be repealed as it is a budget buster. Not one single plan stops all investment in infrastructure and fuel taxes are designed to pay for that to begin with. Stop using fuel taxes for other purposes and the money necessary to build, maintain, and repair roads and bridges will be there. Ever here of the word "attrition"? Using that we could begin to pare down the size of the government workforce over a 10 year period without the "massive" layoffs you are trying to portray.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 23):
Of course, this still fails to answer the fundamental question. How will gutting government spending create jobs...particularly good paying jobs?

Private industry creates far more good paying jobs than the government does, as it should be. Goverment is good at creating "make work" jobs.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 24):
His budget wasn't part of this deal.

I didn't say it was. In fact, not too long ago you said even producing a budget wasn't his responsibility. But the fact remains he sidelined himself with Congress as his administration could never produce a concrete plan for the deficit reduction that the GOP led house was demanding in order to raise the debt ceiling. 2 months and not a single concrete plan, nothing but speeches, which the CBO was quick to point out they couldn't score. Meanwhile the House produced and voted on 3 different plans and the democratic party controlled Senate produced one, and hasn't even voted on that. Just a total lack of leadership from the democratic party.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 24):
But you want the plans.

These would be the budgets you said the President wasn't required to produce? In fact the 2012 budget is the Presidents "mulligan" budget. This is the one produced after the one he proposed during the State of the Union speech. Remember that one? No spending cuts at all?

Quoting casinterest (Reply 24):
Yes it does, but the Tea Party continues to believe they can just all out hack the budget by not raising the ceiling with no dire consequences. It not only shows a lack of math skills, but a lack of common sense.

What they believe is that the government should live within its means just like everyone else and every other business in the country and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that line of thinking. Common sense says you cannot keep spending without limits and expect there to be no consequences.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
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casinterest
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:08 pm

Quoting dxing (Reply 30):
What they believe is that the government should live within its means just like everyone else and every other business in the country and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that line of thinking. Common sense says you cannot keep spending without limits and expect there to be no consequences.

But the governemnt isn't a business. This is where the Tea Party loses it's common sense.

Quoting dxing (Reply 30):
didn't say it was. In fact, not too long ago you said even producing a budget wasn't his responsibility. But the fact remains he sidelined himself with Congress as his administration could never produce a concrete plan for the deficit reduction that the GOP led house was demanding in order to raise the debt ceiling. 2 months and not a single concrete plan, nothing but speeches, which the CBO was quick to point out they couldn't score. Meanwhile the House produced and voted on 3 different plans and the democratic party controlled Senate produced one, and hasn't even voted on that. Just a total lack of leadership from the democratic party.

Then we can say the same thing about Bush and the GOP in 2006. it's same same.

Quoting dxing (Reply 30):
Remember that one? No spending cuts at all?

Look when the economy is in a recession and most of the spending is keeping the economy afloat, you don't propse cuts.
By that logic bush should have asked for a tax hike in 2006.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
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par13del
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:28 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 31):
But the governemnt isn't a business.

Then it should stop acting like one.

1. Having budgets
2. Asking department and various government branches to have spending limits
3.Hiring staff and paying them salaries versus getting volunteers
4. Paying workers compensation and other benefits, volunteers don't need such
5. Buying goods and services versus using the power of government to demand stuff for free or in taxes

I being funny but really, government isn't a business is a get out of jail free card for everything, agree?
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:32 pm

Voting the debt ceiling increase is like re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

     
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
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casinterest
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:40 pm

Quoting par13del (Reply 32):
being funny but really, government isn't a business is a get out of jail free card for everything, agree?

No Goverment is tasked with looking after the best interests of those that it Governs. The best interests of the USA are not served by defaulting on loans made with the same currency that the US Government creates. If you want to look at Governemnt as a business, then you have to realize that it is a money business.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
dxing
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:42 pm

Quoting Baroque (Reply 26):
But the past couple of years of US compromise is giving the term a really really bad name. Most of the compromises seem to be close to picking the worst out of each side and selling the product as a "result".

I believe in the old adage that if all parties are unhappy, it's probably as good a deal as anyone can expect.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 31):
But the governemnt isn't a business. This is where the Tea Party loses it's common sense.

Yes, the government is a business. It takes in revenue and outlays capital just like a business. When it comes to balancing its books it should be run just like any other business. The difference is that government produces no product, just provides services that vary depending on the situation.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 31):
Then we can say the same thing about Bush and the GOP in 2006. it's same same.

No you can't. This administrations deficits are running much much higher than in 2006.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 31):
Look when the economy is in a recession and most of the spending is keeping the economy afloat, you don't propse cuts.
By that logic bush should have asked for a tax hike in 2006.

A look back at 1932-1940 is all that is needed. Government spent billions and it wasn't until war production in support of England and the other allies started to pick up in 1940 that the depression was broken. Even FDR's treasury secretary told him in 1938 that all the government spending so far had done nothing to actually help. We are in the same boat today.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
baroque
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:53 pm

Quoting dxing (Reply 35):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 26):
But the past couple of years of US compromise is giving the term a really really bad name. Most of the compromises seem to be close to picking the worst out of each side and selling the product as a "result".

I believe in the old adage that if all parties are unhappy, it's probably as good a deal as anyone can expect.

It is a fair enough adage, but the past few years, the US has been doing the cv of that adage significance damage. Just about every set of tense negotiations seems to produce the worst of both worlds, and often a few worlds that were not wot of when the negotiations started. That in itself is not necessarily a bad thing, but most of these sets of compromises do seem to have picked the eyes out to get the worst outcome. I would mention another classic example, but the results were so horrid I don't even want to mention it.   
 
baroque
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:05 pm

Here is an interesting article on the results:
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politi...s-to-its-knees-20110801-1i81r.html
[/i] Today's debt crisis is the culminating point of three clear examples of great blundering under the idea that America was special.

First was the decision to wage a discretionary war, the invasion of Iraq. Although the invasion was conducted under the pretence of a pre-emptive strike against weapons of mass destruction, it was waged in pursuit of a greater cause.

Former US president, George W. Bush, spoke of it five times in a single press conference in April 2004: "We're changing the world."
.......
The second great indulgence was the vast financial bubble that seemed to be the best of times. But it was, in fact, laying the basis for the global economic crisis of 2009.

Summing up pre-crisis American delusion, US academic economists Carmen Reinhart and Ken Rogoff said: "The US, with the world's most reliable system of financial regulation, the most innovative financial system, a strong political system, and the world's largest and most liquid capital markets, was special." These elements proved to be the very weaknesses that caused the crisis.
.......
The third was deliberate financial recklessness. The Bush administration needed to go into deficit in its earliest budgets because it inherited a recession in 2001. But Bush and the Congress should have used the next seven years of economic good times to bring the deficit in check. Instead, they ran up the debt.

When the then Treasury secretary, Paul O'Neill, tried to exert some discipline over the budget, the vice-president, Dick Cheney, rebuked him: "Reagan proved deficits don't matter. We won the [2002] midterms. This is our due."

Before Bush, Bill Clinton had managed to bring down two surplus budgets. When Bush and Cheney took power, the federal government had outstanding debts of $US5.6 trillion ($5.1 trillion). When they left eight years later, the debts were $US10 trillion.
.....
Serious and sober Americans, including the president of the World Bank, Bob Zoellick, and the Nobel Prize winning economist Robert Mundell, have called for a new global reserve system that includes a role for gold. This is a clear vote of no-confidence in the future of the US dollar. But US government debt, notably Treasury bonds, are such a staple of global money management that investors have still been prepared to buy more.

It took the debt ceiling crisis to force Washington into urgently confronting the problem of its never-ending liabilities. The agreed solution is only a tentative beginning, but good news for the allies of the US. The veteran non-partisan political commentator Charlie Cook said this week the US was becoming a "laughing stock" and a "banana republic". Countries like Australia don't need an America that is deluded and dysfunctional but one that husbands its power judiciously. Today's expected deal is a beginning. [/i]

Seem unexceptional as a commentary on how the US got where it is now. Agreed there were a few extra steps in the run up and there will be a good few more, but ???gets most of the main points. Before anyone comments Hartcher is biased, he usually is, with rather R wing views.
 
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casinterest
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:12 pm

Quoting dxing (Reply 35):
Yes, the government is a business. It takes in revenue and outlays capital just like a business. When it comes to balancing its books it should be run just like any other business. The difference is that government produces no product, just provides services that vary depending on the situation.

The Government by way of the Treasurey produces Money.

Quoting dxing (Reply 35):
No you can't. This administrations deficits are running much much higher than in 2006.

The deficits are higher, becasue the "Planned Surplus" that the Previous Administration bet on never materialized when they made tax cuts. They also benefitted by putting the sunset bill on the tax cuts that expired in 2010, that got kicked foreward with hte GOP decided they were an entitlement instead of a deficit item used to spur the US economy in 2001, and 2003.

Quoting dxing (Reply 35):
A look back at 1932-1940 is all that is needed. Government spent billions and it wasn't until war production in support of England and the other allies started to pick up in 1940 that the depression was broken. Even FDR's treasury secretary told him in 1938 that all the government spending so far had done nothing to actually help. We are in the same boat today.

The deficits from 40 to 46 were immense. The only reason unemployment went down was due to the fact that those working and not working went out and volunteered for the war effort, and those not working got new jobs supporting the war effort.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
NIKV69
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:18 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 23):
And what happens to the millions of people who lose their jobs when these cuts happen?

Did you have this concern when the thousands of jobs at NASA was cut?

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 23):
gutting their Social Security checks, gutting their healthcare,

More baseless propaganda. Nobody is gutting entitlements. By asking people under 55 to work two more years or take a means test is smart long term. This Grandma eating catfood smoke is so played out already. We need to do this now before there will be nothing left.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 25):
Why did they have General Electric paying zero federal taxes the last 3 years in a row?

Chicago politics at it's best.Or how Soros keeps his riches in Curacao so he dodges paying US taxes. I love when the rich say they are willing to pay more taxes. It's such a great soundbyte yet rarely gets put into practice.

Quoting dxing (Reply 30):
None of the plans laid out to salvage SS guts anyones checks.

Yep the demogugery has been beyond reproach.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
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seb146
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:37 pm

Quoting dxing (Reply 15):
due to his lack of putting forth any plan whatsoever

He actually put forth a plan IN APRIL but the right-wing main stream media ignored it, IIRC http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/14/us/politics/14obama.html

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 20):
Quoting dragon-wings (Reply 5):
Boehner said this bill has 98% of what the Republicans wanted. Where is the bipartisan?

Republicans won the last election.

So.... 98% of the House is right-wing???
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
AGM100
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:57 pm

Quoting tugger (Thread starter):
Will it properly address the problems and will it make things better into the future?



For socialists democrats... hurting the TEA party was the goal . It keeps the gravy train on track for a while longer but they are pissed because they want more taxes . Obama can ride over that little issue ... as long as he can keep debt spending on track he knows that higher taxes are inevitable for our kids and grand kids.

For Conservatives .. it does not . Increasing debt to avert a bankruptcy does not make sense to us. Cutting business costs does make sense to us .... and this bill appears pretty light on real costs cuts.

Basically the "establishment" from both parties... which has brought us to this point.... won the day.

But hey I am still in business ... and will be on board a nice A318 delivering to Avianca today! I will never quit fighting for my American dream.
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FlyPNS1
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:30 pm

Quoting dxing (Reply 30):
None of the plans laid out to salvage SS guts anyones checks.

None of the plans laid out comes close to balancing the budget. In order to balance the budget, much more severe cuts will have to be made.

Quoting dxing (Reply 30):
Private industry creates far more good paying jobs than the government does, as it should be

This used to be true. Today, private industry destroys good paying jobs and replaces them with nothing or very low paying jobs.

Quoting dxing (Reply 35):
Yes, the government is a business. It takes in revenue and outlays capital just like a business. When it comes to balancing its books it should be run just like any other business.

Then as a business, it should immediately shutdown any business line that costs more than the revenue it produces. This would include the DoD which produces virtually no revenue, but creates massive costs.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 39):
Did you have this concern when the thousands of jobs at NASA was cut?

I did have this concern, but according to conservatives the lay-offs of NASA workers should be a good thing. According to conservatives, government workers (like those at NASA) are parasites who produce nothing.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 39):
By asking people under 55 to work two more years or take a means test is smart long term.

But these changes won't stop our budget crisis. You keep parroting this line over and over again in different threads, but ignore that fact that it FAILS to fix our budget. By time your fix kicks in, the U.S. will have racked up another 10 TRILLION in debt!!! So, why don't you provide a solution that actually balances the budget??

Nothing that Republicans or Democrats have proposed comes even close to balancing the budget. That's why I find the balanced budget amendment so hilarious, you're creating an amendment for something neither party has shown any ability to achieve. The only way to achieve a balanced budget is draconian cuts that neither party is willing to admit to.

Quoting dxing (Reply 35):
Government spent billions and it wasn't until war production in support of England and the other allies started to pick up in 1940 that the depression was broken.

So you basically just admitted that government spending broke the depression???

Of course, this ignores the fact that the depression had been ended years earlier.
 
NIKV69
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:48 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 42):
But these changes won't stop our budget crisis. You keep parroting this line over and over again in different threads, but ignore that fact that it FAILS to fix our budget. By time your fix kicks in, the U.S. will have racked up another 10 TRILLION in debt!!! So, why don't you provide a solution that actually balances the budget??

By keeping entitlements from losing money we are not helping the budget? Which makes up half? Of course it does. If you prevent fraud and waste you are saving money. By getting another two years of savings from people who have to work two more years you save money. Of course this helps the budget.

We won't rack up 10T more in debt if the other cuts are put into effect. This is what is always comes back to. Refusing to stop spending so much.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 42):
Nothing that Republicans or Democrats have proposed comes even close to balancing the budget. That's why I find the balanced budget amendment so hilarious, you're creating an amendment for something neither party has shown any ability to achieve. The only way to achieve a balanced budget is draconian cuts that neither party is willing to admit to.

It's a start though. I am well aware the meat of the beginning cuts are an illusion and are the war drawdown which has basically has been counted twice and we have to pray Iran doesn't launch an attack on Israel or we have to enter some other conflict to help an ally but until we start somewhere it can't happen.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
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Tugger
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:00 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 18):
Why are they in this debt?

Because we did not pay it down when we should have. Even at our most profitable times, we kept cutting revenues while increasing expenses. And this is not a one party thing, this is by both parties.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 18):
Where is most of the money that is actually owed?

The vast majority of the money is owed to the American people, about 2/3 of it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Es...of_treasury_securities_by_year.gif
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...ates_public_debt#Foreign_ownership

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 42):
Nothing that Republicans or Democrats have proposed comes even close to balancing the budget. That's why I find the balanced budget amendment so hilarious, you're creating an amendment for something neither party has shown any ability to achieve. The only way to achieve a balanced budget is draconian cuts that neither party is willing to admit to.

The only way to fix the problem is to raise taxes/revenue and decrease spending/expenses. Both need to happen. Taxes need to be raised across the board, and expenses need to be paired back to match the budgeted revenues MINUS an amount needed to pay do the debt.

Tugg
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Ken777
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:59 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 10):
It will prevent default, and it gives the US credit rating a better chance of remaining intact.

The default could have been avoided with a one page, one line law. Just like other Presidents have been provided.

As for the credit rating, the TP FUBAR has established a new standard (and a pretty low one) that will stay with us for a long time. Political instability is now part of the equation and the credit rating probably cannot withstand the implications of this major change.

Quoting dxing (Reply 15):
If there is one bright spot it is that the Constitutional amendment to balance the budget will finally get a vote in both Houses.

Big deal. It's a dead horse. Even some Republicans will think again when they consider the implications to the Defense Budget alone.

Quoting dxing (Reply 15):
due to his lack of putting forth any plan whatsoever, he sidelined himself pretty early on

Here we go again - looking for that magical piece of paper. I guess we should be assuming that when Boehner & Obama were negotiating that $4+ Trillion Big Change all they were really doing was playing more games of golf.

Quoting dxing (Reply 15):
To be fair they don't want taxes raised on anyone.

They don't want government at all. And they don't care what the costs to the country will be,

Quoting dxing (Reply 15):
Quite the contrast from when she was Speaker and we had to pass the bill to find out what was in it!

She knew what was in the bill at the time. Last night even the GOP leaders were supporting a Bill that had not been written and hoping their TPers would follow. Even before there was "paper".

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 17):
If you consider the "small working class" to be the poorest 50% of the population pay about 2.1% of the income taxes, how can you say they are paying?

Let's look at a more accurate indicator of how much taxes the poorest pay - what percentage of their income goes to any form of taxes?

Limiting discussions to income taxes alone distorts the reality of taxation in America. But it does favor the most fortunate.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 17):
nobody mentions the far left caucus in the Senate which also prevented any sort of deal over the past few weeks.

Boehner could not even get his proposed law to a vote without the TP going into spasms - causing Boehner to pull the vote. The "Left" had no impact on the TP starting their FUBAR, or Boehner being left hanging.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 17):
1) It will avoid default, but will not avoid a downgrade.

That is my bet. And demonstrates the real cost of the TP FUBAR.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 17):
Congress is unable to commit to anything beyond 1 year.

Like military contracts that are multi year? Where is this going to put programs like the USAF Tanker Program.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 18):
Where is most of the money that is actually owed?

Most people don't know or care. There is no easy way to discover what debt misrelated to long term assets, compared to current expenditures. Think of a home mortgage comparison - assuming big time debt for most families, but well worth it because it is a long term debt that brings value. Major military equipment and national infrastructure investments are two easy example to understand, but few care to consider the long term investments by the government.

Quoting dxing (Reply 30):
Obamacare needs to be repealed as it is a budget buster.

After working for companies that were not burdened with employer nanny care costs on their P&L I would disagree with you.

Not only should we maximize the use of the Medicare infrastructure, but we should also shift federal employee health care to Medicare in order to cut costs. And, yes, require federal politicians & their staff to use Medicare.

I would also ask you to remember the excessive costs of Medicare Advantge. That can add half a trillion plus to the budgets, yet conservatives support it. Go figure.

Quoting dxing (Reply 30):
Private industry creates far more good paying jobs than the government does, as it should be. Goverment is good at creating "make work" jobs.

"Make work jobs", like military personnel? CDC & NIH scientist & doctors? NASA engineers? (Well, they are up creek these days anyway) DoJ Lawyers? FBI Investigators? VA Medical Personnel? VA clerical personnel that actually process vet's applications?

What about Medicare employees who deliver benefit management at a fraction of the private sector? Social Security personnel that also get checks out every month - unless the TP blocks them.

Even the CBO?

Quoting dxing (Reply 35):
The difference is that government produces no product, just provides services that vary depending on the situation.

Infrastructure spending does result in "product". For road builders a road is their product and the government pro ides for these types of infrastructure. Obviously that infrastructure spending is heading for cuts, which will just as obviously cut the jobs related to that spending. Not just the people out in the files working on the roads & bridges, but also all the jobs behind them. And obviously Defense spending is heading for cuts on their "products", like the new tanker for the USFA. We will probably move forward with the tanker, buy stretch out deliveries to twice as long.

Also keep in mind that the "products" at the DoD that are moving towards an RFP or contract are now going to be slowed down or killed because of the political instability the TP FUBAR has brought us.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 37):
Here is an interesting article on the results:

Excellent article - thank you for posting it. There are times when we need to listen to people outside the US as we can't see the forest because of the trees.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 41):
For socialists democrats... hurting the TEA party was the goal

How do you figure that? This TP FUBAR was carried out by the TP, not the "socialists Democrat". Or even those Democrats who are not "socialists".   

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 42):
None of the plans laid out comes close to balancing the budget. In order to balance the budget, much more severe cuts will have to be made.

And taxes will have to be raised.

As far as more severe cuts go, look for payments to the states to be cut significantly. That should please those who believe in state rights over the federal government. but the poor folks having to re-do their state budgets are in for a rough time.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 43):
By keeping entitlements from losing money we are not helping the budget?

Social Security Trust Fund makes money - interest earned is over $100 Billion a year.

The ironic thing about the SS Trust Fund interest earnings is that they may well increase significantly is there is a reduction in the nations credit rating. At that point the country will have to increase the interest we pay. What rate are we paying the Trust Fund today and how high does that interest rate have to climb in order to cover the future baby boomer problems. This is getting really ironic - the TP FUBAR would basically deliver a long term cost increase to Americans, but would also indirectly increase funding to the SS Trust Fund.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 42):
But these changes won't stop our budget crisis.

We won't move in that direction until we bring in more tax revenues. That means the Bush Tax cuts need to be addressed. The tax free rides of personal retirements needs to be addressed. The Capital Gains taxes needs to be reviewed - especially for those enjoying the 15% ride as hedge fund managers. Even the GOP Socialist Handout of $1,000 per child needs to be addressed, at a minimum phasing it out at $100K.

Then we can start changing the budget crisis.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:04 pm

Quoting tugger (Reply 44):
The only way to fix the problem is to raise taxes/revenue and decrease spending/expenses. Both need to happen. Taxes need to be raised across the board,

They need to cut down on tax loop holes and waivers a la General Electric
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/gener...deral-taxes-2010/story?id=13224558

and have the Fortune 100 mega-rich pay taxes rather than letting their tax money going through foundations a la Bill and Melinda Gates foundation which is another way for them to get tax exemptions.

I am sure there are much better examples of tax loop holes which I don't think about.


 Wow!
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
BMI727
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:05 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 4):
It's the small working class who will have to pay again - as usual.

They aren't paying anything now. I'm sure plenty of politicians would be happy to cut their taxes, if only they actually paid some taxes in the first place.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 39):
.Or how Soros keeps his riches in Curacao so he dodges paying US taxes.

Hell, I would too. When a large portion of the country would spend their days telling me to pay more taxes, I'm going to send my money elsewhere.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
Okie
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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:18 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 25):
All the while they are moving one of the last divisions they had in North America US and Canada (their giant X-Ray manufacturing division including government contracts for airports) both medical and security - that is moving to China and there is bailout money involved in it?


GE is also going to give the China $2 Billion to train and educate the Chinese employee's.
So, if you look at the $815 Million that Obama gave GE for "job creation" then you can say that we are even paying China to educate and train the employee's in China to replace the US employee's.
It seems pretty pathetic.

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RE: The USA Budget Deal - Will It Work?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:28 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 45):
Even the GOP Socialist Handout of $1,000 per child needs to be addressed, at a minimum phasing it out at $100K.

It's already phased out at 120,000 to 140000.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain

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