Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
dragon-wings
Topic Author
Posts: 4172
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2001 4:55 am

NHL: Voters Turn Down New Arena For Islanders

Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:18 pm

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?se...=news/sports/pro/hockey&id=8281112

What do you think will happen now? Will the Islanders ever get a new arena and stay on Long Island? Or will Wang move the team somewhere else?
Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: NHL: Voters Turn Down New Arena For Islanders

Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm

Quoting dragon-wings (Thread starter):

What do you think will happen now? Will the Islanders ever get a new arena and stay on Long Island? Or will Wang move the team somewhere else?

Well it appears Nassau County is trying to get private funds to fund a new arena.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...B01-343SH73RMQ3UHNJTB3JU1NEDI0.DTL

Good luck with that, as considering how long and drawn out this entire saga has become, I don't think any private groups will bite.

While Wang has promised to stay on the Island until the lease expires, that doesn't necessarily mean they'll still be there come the 2014-15 NHL season. Wang could always sell the team and the new owners could relocate the team (Using the recent purchase and relocation of the Atlanta Thrashers to Winnipeg as an example, approval to relocate would probably just require giving a few million to each team under the guise of a "relocation fee".) and pay to break the lease.

As for potential relocation cities, that's really too early to speculate on when you consider that the Phoenix Coyotes situation still needs to be settled (I don't see them in Phoenix after this season, as there's no way the City Of Glendale throws another penny to subsidize losses. especially in the wake of the Atlanta relocation that was pretty much done to help offset the losses in Phoenix. True North was within 10 minutes of buying the Coyotes, as the announcement the the City Of Glendale was going to help cover losses for this season came right before the deadline, and had the deadline passed, the NHL was going to sell the Coyotes to True North. Once the deal with the City Of Glendale was announced, True North almost immediately started negotiations with Atlanta Scumbags Spirit LLC to buy the Thrashers.).
 
sw733
Posts: 5884
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:19 am

RE: NHL: Voters Turn Down New Arena For Islanders

Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:38 am

Come on down to Kansas City, Islanders! We've got a lovely, fairly new stadium right downtown just waiting for a permanent tenant!
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15611
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: NHL: Voters Turn Down New Arena For Islanders

Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:56 am

Finally the overtaxed voters of Nassau County decided that they would not subsidise the rich sports team owners with a new facility that few will be able to get into. I hope this is a beginning of trend. Here in NJ I saw the fully functional and largely paid for Giants Stadium replaced with a $1.5 BILLION Meadowlands Stadium, which took the taxpayers for $100's of Millions of monies better needed for schools, roads or even tax relief.
 
connies4ever
Posts: 3393
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:54 pm

RE: NHL: Voters Turn Down New Arena For Islanders

Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:24 am

Quoting dragon-wings (Thread starter):
What do you think will happen now? Will the Islanders ever get a new arena and stay on Long Island? Or will Wang move the team somewhere else?

I vote for Toronto. Lots of money and fans, anew rink in Mississauga would go down well.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14210
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: NHL: Voters Turn Down New Arena For Islanders

Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:35 am

Quoting srbmod (Reply 1):
Good luck with that, as considering how long and drawn out this entire saga has become, I don't think any private groups will bite.

With the risk of the Islanders leaving anyone that would have interest is going to wait because that is prime real estate and could be used for many other things than hockey.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 1):
While Wang has promised to stay on the Island until the lease expires, that doesn't necessarily mean they'll still be there come the 2014-15 NHL season. Wang could always sell the team and the new owners could relocate the team (Using the recent purchase and relocation of the Atlanta Thrashers to Winnipeg as an example, approval to relocate would probably just require giving a few million to each team under the guise of a "relocation fee".) and pay to break the lease.

Wang's bluff was called. Everyone here knows he hates the day he bought that team and he wants to dump them. Nobody is going to buy that team unless they get it for nothing and Wang won't do that. His best bet is to go with the young talent and get the team in contention and pray the economy recovers in 3 years so people will show up and watch on TV(which is not going to happen). In addition to getting the taxpayer to pay for a state of the art building and long term lease which blew up in his face yesterday.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 1):
As for potential relocation cities, that's really too early to speculate on when you consider that the Phoenix Coyotes situation still needs to be settled (I don't see them in Phoenix after this season, as there's no way the City Of Glendale throws another penny to subsidize losses. especially in the wake of the Atlanta relocation that was pretty much done to help offset the losses in Phoenix. True North was within 10 minutes of buying the Coyotes, as the announcement the the City Of Glendale was going to help cover losses for this season came right before the deadline, and had the deadline passed, the NHL was going to sell the Coyotes to True North. Once the deal with the City Of Glendale was announced, True North almost immediately started negotiations with Atlanta Scumbags Spirit LLC to buy the Thrashers.).

Too early to tell if the Islanders will leave. In a good economy this wouldn't be an issue since their fans are pretty loyal but Nassau county is like CA and only getting worse. People just don't have any money in that county and Mangano really has made more of a mess of things.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
11Bravo
Posts: 1683
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:54 am

RE: NHL: Voters Turn Down New Arena For Islanders

Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:50 am

Can you say Portland Islanders? Portland, Oregon or maybe Seattle
WhaleJets Rule!
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 25759
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

RE: NHL: Voters Turn Down New Arena For Islanders

Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:31 am

Quoting sw733 (Reply 2):
Come on down to Kansas City, Islanders! We've got a lovely, fairly new stadium right downtown just waiting for a permanent tenant!

Kansas City seems to be the Hartford of the Midwest, so I'm not so sure that adding a hockey team would make a damn bit of difference. It'd kind of be like adding one more turd to the pile.

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 4):
I vote for Toronto. Lots of money and fans, anew rink in Mississauga would go down well.

At least it'd be a place where they might be able to keep the ice frozen during the Stanley Cup.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
StarAC17
Posts: 3988
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

RE: NHL: Voters Turn Down New Arena For Islanders

Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:20 am

This is a case of smart fans being punished unfortunately.

Colin Cowherd whom I disagree with on a lot of sports related stuff has said this about several teams in various sports most predominately the Minnesota Vikings where the people do not want their taxes going to building a stadium that might end up being a rich man's playground and the taxpayer doesn't see a big return in.

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 4):
I vote for Toronto. Lots of money and fans, anew rink in Mississauga would go down well.

I can't think of anywhere in Sauga you could put it, its too built up and not enough transit is available to not make near the arena a traffic mess.

I would vote for and area near Mohawk racetrack which isn't that developed and pretty equidistant from the GTA, KW, and Hamilton.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 7):
At least it'd be a place where they might be able to keep the ice frozen during the Stanley Cup.

Don't be so sure YYZ can get those hot days in May and June  .

Also that must be what is stopping the Leafs from getting there after 44 years   .
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
sw733
Posts: 5884
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:19 am

RE: NHL: Voters Turn Down New Arena For Islanders

Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:20 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 7):
Kansas City seems to be the Hartford of the Midwest, so I'm not so sure that adding a hockey team would make a damn bit of difference. It'd kind of be like adding one more turd to the pile.

Interesting analogy and incredibly incorrect in my opinion if you have ever spent good chunks of time in both Kansas City and Hartford. I have...Kansas City wins hands down.
 
jfk69
Posts: 1197
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 3:04 am

RE: NHL: Voters Turn Down New Arena For Islanders

Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:45 pm

As a Nassau resident and Islanders fan I will weigh in on this topic.

For starters, I voted yes on this referendum on Monday, not just for the Islanders sake but also for Nassau and my kids. If the bond would have been passed my taxes would have gone up approx. $14 a year. I could have given up 2 cups of coffee to keep my team and a building here. The building needs to be here for the circus, concerts, convention center shows etc... If the Islanders are to leave then none of these shows will come to the collapsing coliseum. This will force me to spend $60 on the LIRR to go to Manhattan and take my kids to MSG, so what the hell did I save?

Nassau County is a joke. For the last decade they have been attempting to find a replacement for the coliseum. Charles Wang was willing to put up 1.2 billion in Private money to build the Lighthouse Project

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9H1Z46UJaU

This was shot down by the republicans for mostly a NIMBY attitude, now this referendum was shot down by the Democrats. The old folks who have no foresight came out in droves and said not even one more dollar. So what the hell is the answer? This bond referendum was going to cost money but the county still owned the property and they would get 11.5% every dollar spent at the arena so money was coming back. This was diff't then Minnesota, you cant compare it to the new Baseball stadiums which everyone think was paid for by private funds (well it was technically built with private funds but with MASSIVE tax breaks offered by the city ) so whats the difference?


I hope the Isles move to Brooklyn or Queens just to shove it up Nassau Counties ass. Nassau is stuck in the 70's in regard to growth, if the Coliseum is knocked down I look forward to 10 more strip malls, cause that is exactly what Nassau needs  
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14210
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: NHL: Voters Turn Down New Arena For Islanders

Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:22 pm

Quoting jfk69 (Reply 10):

Problem is Nassau county is basically screwed. Population growth and the failure of the infrastrucure and quite frankly the lack of room have basically transformed it into a Queens on steroids. Horrible roads, horrible traffic even outside of rush hours and a huge tax burden that people just can't afford. Quite franky I think Wang is wasting his time. Great article in Newsday about his options and I think in the end he will stay. The markets being discussed are not going to cut it. Personally I think the county should sell the land and let Wang lease the building. He stands a better chance of getting an updated building.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
jfk69
Posts: 1197
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 3:04 am

RE: NHL: Voters Turn Down New Arena For Islanders

Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:58 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 11):
horrible traffic even outside of rush hours

besides the LIE which sucks all the way out to Suffolk, where else is traffic bad?

Its an interesting situation across the board, I think Wang is still hanging on because he really does not want to be the man that took the Isles out of Nassau, and the @sshole politicians do not want this to happen under their watch so there should be a fair amount of scrambling over the next 6-9 months.
 
User avatar
Moose135
Posts: 3228
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:27 pm

RE: NHL: Voters Turn Down New Arena For Islanders

Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:12 pm

I'm a Nassau County resident, an Islander fan since they started in 1972, and I voted against the measure.

Quoting jfk69 (Reply 10):
If the bond would have been passed my taxes would have gone up approx. $14 a year.

Maybe...final terms of the deal were never published, because the deal wasn't final yet - that resulted in several studies, all producing widely varying estimates of the financial impact to taxpayers. The $14 number was based on all revenue the county got from the new building going to pay back the debt, but there was nothing in the language of the proposal that required that. The money would go into the county's general fund, to be used as this, and future, county executives and legislatures saw fit.

Part of the problem with the estimates (pretty much all of them that I saw) was that they used unrealistic estimates on growth in average hockey attendance - from 11K now to over 14K in the new arena, luxury suite revenue, and naming rights fees in calculating revenues.

The county comptroller issued a report on the proposal last month, which among other things, looked at the costs of the Prudential Center, built in Newark five years ago. The initial cost proposal for that building was $310 million, of which the NJ Devils picked up 1/3 of the cost. The final cost of the building was 21% over budget. If this same thing happened here (and I would be surprised if it didn't) the new arena would cost more than $400 million. In the tentative agreement with Wang and the Islanders, he would pick up overruns up to $375 million, or about $50 million - beyond that, he could revise the plan, or simply walk away from the deal.

Another thing overlooked when saying it would cost the "average homeowner" $14 (or up to $58 per one study...) per year was the effect on corporate taxes. Businesses, including the Long Island Power Authority (LIPA) would all receive higher property tax bills as a result of this proposal, which would result in these higher costs passed along to the "average homeowner".

Mangano thought he would be cute and scheduled this as a single-issue vote, on a Monday in August, hoping supporters would turn out, and others wouldn't bother, or wouldn't know to vote. By doing it that way, rather than including it on the ballot for the September primary or November general election, it cost the county up to $2 million to hold the election - Wang offered to pay the cost, if it passed. What did my cash-strapped county do? They laid off 128 workers in July to free up money for the referendum.

I agree the county needs a new building, or at least a renovated building. Wang was prepared to do this on his dime, as part of a larger development program around the coliseum. This was shot down by the local township that has zoning jurisdiction over the land, due to the size of the development. Funny thing - that was proposed when we had a Democratic county executive, and the Supervisor in that town is a Republican. Now, with a Republican county executive, and public funding for the new building, the town supervisor is on board with the new plan.

All along Wang has had a "my way or else" attitude, both in his initial proposal, and in this latest program - he has said all along there is no "Plan B" if the referendum was defeated, although the seems to be backpedaling a bit the last couple of days. I think ultimately something gets done to keep the team here, but I doubt it will have much, if any, public money. Public spending on sports facilities don't have the positive financial impact that is usually claimed, and as the voters in Nassau County have shown, there is little taste for spending tax dollars for the benefit of a multimillionaire team owner.
KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14210
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: NHL: Voters Turn Down New Arena For Islanders

Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:02 pm

Quoting jfk69 (Reply 12):
besides the LIE which sucks all the way out to Suffolk, where else is traffic bad?

Try Hempstead Tpk or Old country road near the mall.

Quoting moose135 (Reply 13):
Mangano thought he would be cute and scheduled this as a single-issue vote, on a Monday in August, hoping supporters would turn out, and others wouldn't bother, or wouldn't know to vote. By doing it that way, rather than including it on the ballot for the September primary or November general election, it cost the county up to $2 million to hold the election - Wang offered to pay the cost, if it passed. What did my cash-strapped county do? They laid off 128 workers in July to free up money for the referendum.

Yea this was a total debacle and Mangano wonders why the state control board is so critical of him. He literally threw 2M right out the window.

Quoting moose135 (Reply 13):
I agree the county needs a new building, or at least a renovated building.

Oh yea the place is falling apart and needs more seats. Nassau can just sit on it though till the economy comes back or sell it if they get the right price to a developer.

Quoting moose135 (Reply 13):
All along Wang has had a "my way or else" attitude, both in his initial proposal, and in this latest program - he has said all along there is no "Plan B" if the referendum was defeated,

He is in a lose lose boat now. WIth a losing team and a depressed economy nationwide his options are quite slim.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
jfk69
Posts: 1197
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 3:04 am

RE: NHL: Voters Turn Down New Arena For Islanders

Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:44 pm

Quoting moose135 (Reply 13):
I agree the county needs a new building, or at least a renovated building. Wang was prepared to do this on his dime, as part of a larger development program around the coliseum. This was shot down by the local township that has zoning jurisdiction over the land, due to the size of the development. Funny thing - that was proposed when we had a Democratic county executive, and the Supervisor in that town is a Republican. Now, with a Republican county executive, and public funding for the new building, the town supervisor is on board with the new plan.

All along Wang has had a "my way or else" attitude, both in his initial proposal, and in this latest program - he has said all along there is no "Plan B" if the referendum was defeated, although the seems to be backpedaling a bit the last couple of days. I think ultimately something gets done to keep the team here, but I doubt it will have much, if any, public money. Public spending on sports facilities don't have the positive financial impact that is usually claimed, and as the voters in Nassau County have shown, there is little taste for spending tax dollars for the benefit of a multimillionaire team owner.

I think we all agree that the County is run by inept politicians who prefer to play games with each other than actually getting anything done. Kate Murray is the biggest trash out of all of them. The Town of Hempstead does offer a fair amount of facilities but its quite expensive to use half of them on top of paying all we do on property tax. And she manages to get her smug face on everything.

The way this referendum went down was shameful. As a a Yes vote I still thought it should have gone with the Election day ballot in November instead of pissing away 2 Mil. All this county does is waste money, but this would have been something that we can see with our own eyes and something we can ALL use. It may not have been the best plan, but it was the plan presented so I voted yes.

I think Wang is an idiot for many many reasons but you can't fault the guy for wanting to make a buck. Find me a single pro sports owner who owns their team strictly for "fan" purposes and not to make a profit??? It does not exist. Wang understands that the team is worthless for the most part with the last playoff win coming in 1993, but he knows the land is the $$$$ maker. He does not and should not be pushed in a corner and told that he should just build it out of his own pocket and just the arena with nothing else.....Obviously he has crunched numbers and he realizes that you need the existing land to build on to make some money.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 14):
Try Hempstead Tpk or Old country road near the mall.

Do you really consider that major traffic???? I would rather sit there at 7PM than the crap I have to sit through on the Van Wyck at I dont know,....anytime of the day!!!
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 14282
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: NHL: Voters Turn Down New Arena For Islanders

Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:27 pm

Quoting dragon-wings (Thread starter):
What do you think will happen now? Will the Islanders ever get a new arena and stay on Long Island? Or will Wang move the team somewhere else?

They should move to the new Barclay's center in Brooklyn, it's better utilization of a new arena to have two franchises. It wouldn't cost the Islanders anything to move to an existing building, plus it would be a huge improvement over the Nassau coliseum. The only question is whether Islander fans would ride the LIRR to Flyers games, it think they would.

Again for the region I think there are too many venues right now;

MSG (Manhattan)
Izod Center (Meadowlands)
Prudential Center (Newark)
Barclay's arena (Brooklyn)
Nassau Coliseum (Long Island)

The Izod Center and Nassau Coliseum both should be demolished, it would be helpful to the other venues to not have to compete so much.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
User avatar
Moose135
Posts: 3228
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:27 pm

RE: NHL: Voters Turn Down New Arena For Islanders

Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:51 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 16):
t wouldn't cost the Islanders anything to move to an existing building...

Would this be considered moving into the Strangers' "territory"? I know it's still in the same region, but I don't know how the NHL would handle them moving closer to MSG - that might set up some territorial issues. I know if they moved to a new city, that close to an existing franchise, it would be a problem.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 16):
The only question is whether Islander fans would ride the LIRR to Flyers games, it think they would.

I certainly wouldn't. Remember too, it's not a straight shot, like going to MSG. You would have to change at Jamaica, adding time and hassle to the trip. I think a lot of fans would feel "betrayed" and not go to games in Brooklyn.
KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 14282
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: NHL: Voters Turn Down New Arena For Islanders

Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:58 pm

Well besides Brooklyn I don't see any realistic options in the area, outside the region I think a place like Seattle would welcome an NHL franchise. The Key Arena is still there and looking nice, was there last week when they had a rally to bring back the Sonics.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14210
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: NHL: Voters Turn Down New Arena For Islanders

Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:24 pm

Quoting jfk69 (Reply 15):
Do you really consider that major traffic???? I would rather sit there at 7PM than the crap I have to sit through on the Van Wyck at I dont know,....anytime of the day!!!

Yes it is major traffic. Most of Nassau country has become horrible overcrowded everywhere. It took me an hour to go 20 miles yesterday. It's getting to be like Queens with taxes that don't match. It's a big part of the reason the people voted against Wang.

Quoting moose135 (Reply 17):
I certainly wouldn't. Remember too, it's not a straight shot, like going to MSG. You would have to change at Jamaica, adding time and hassle to the trip. I think a lot of fans would feel "betrayed" and not go to games in Brooklyn.

I can't see it working. The bulk if not all Islander fans probably reside in Nassau and Suffolk county.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 25759
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

RE: NHL: Voters Turn Down New Arena For Islanders

Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:27 pm

Quoting jfk69 (Reply 12):
Its an interesting situation across the board, I think Wang is still hanging on because he really does not want to be the man that took the Isles out of Nassau

Here's a guy who screwed over countless people in his business career (if you don't believe me, read his Wiki page) and you think he's afraid of being remembered as the guy that took the Isles out of LI???

Quoting moose135 (Reply 13):
I'm a Nassau County resident, an Islander fan since they started in 1972, and I voted against the measure.

One of the few who can remember when the Icelanders were any good.

Quoting moose135 (Reply 13):
Another thing overlooked when saying it would cost the "average homeowner" $14 (or up to $58 per one study...) per year was the effect on corporate taxes. Businesses, including the Long Island Power Authority (LIPA) would all receive higher property tax bills as a result of this proposal, which would result in these higher costs passed along to the "average homeowner".

I love that 'average homeowner' nonsense. It's clear by the vote that the 'average homeowner' really doesn't give a darn about hockey. If Wang et al can't make the business work in the existing facility, they really should just move the team.

Why do sports teams feel they have a god given right to exist, never mind suckle on the public teat?
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
jfk69
Posts: 1197
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 3:04 am

RE: NHL: Voters Turn Down New Arena For Islanders

Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:39 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 16):
They should move to the new Barclay's center in Brooklyn, it's better utilization of a new arena to have two franchises. It wouldn't cost the Islanders anything to move to an existing building, plus it would be a huge improvement over the Nassau coliseum. The only question is whether Islander fans would ride the LIRR to Flyers games, it think they would.

Brooklyn may not be as good as an option as we may think:

"Barclays Center CEO Brett Yormark confirmed in a statement that the arena can support a professional hockey team (albeit at a smaller capacity than basketball)."

I have seen articles translate that to approx 14,500 to 15k seats. Not really optimum to make a buck. The Russian owner has also stated that right now he has no interest in owning a second professional team.

Quoting moose135 (Reply 17):
Would this be considered moving into the Strangers' "territory"? I know it's still in the same region, but I don't know how the NHL would handle them moving closer to MSG - that might set up some territorial issues. I know if they moved to a new city, that close to an existing franchise, it would be a problem.

I am about 99% positive that Bettman had commented that this was not an issue. The Islanders paid a territory fee when they moved in back in 1972 and this covers the whole area, so no more money to be paid in that regards.

Quoting moose135 (Reply 17):
I certainly wouldn't. Remember too, it's not a straight shot, like going to MSG. You would have to change at Jamaica, adding time and hassle to the trip. I think a lot of fans would feel "betrayed" and not go to games in Brooklyn.

More than a few lines force a change at Jamaica so that is a ZERO issue. (The change is across the track and takes literally 8 seconds)
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14210
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: NHL: Voters Turn Down New Arena For Islanders

Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:48 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 20):
Here's a guy who screwed over countless people in his business career (if you don't believe me, read his Wiki page) and you think he's afraid of being remembered as the guy that took the Isles out of LI???

You are correct but he is looking for an exit stragedy, he doesn't want to own an NHL team anymore if any sport team. It's not his thing. If it was he wouldn't have hired people that traded away Luongo and Chara and at least would be filling the stands with a team contending every year. He wants a buyer and could care less where they end up.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
StarAC17
Posts: 3988
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

RE: NHL: Voters Turn Down New Arena For Islanders

Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:55 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 22):
You are correct but he is looking for an exit stragedy, he doesn't want to own an NHL team anymore if any sport team. It's not his thing. If it was he wouldn't have hired people that traded away Luongo and Chara and at least would be filling the stands with a team contending every year. He wants a buyer and could care less where they end up.

I'll take it if Mr. Dickhead eeerrr Gary Bettman will let me buy if but its going to Hamilton, ON.

Warmest Regards,

Jim Balsillie
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
jfk69
Posts: 1197
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 3:04 am

RE: NHL: Voters Turn Down New Arena For Islanders

Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:03 am

Interesting writing on Queens from Chris Bottas site:

From Jack Friedman
Executive Director, Queens Chamber of Commerce

For the past couple of years, I have been following with great interest what was happening with the Lighthouse Project, Nassau Coliseum and the Islanders. While I had no intentions of getting involved while negotiations continued between Charles Wang and Nassau County, I couldn’t help but notice the similarities between elements of the Lighthouse Project and the Master Plan for the Willets Point area in Queens. Now that the voters have spoken and before Wang considers other locations and possibilities, I hope he looks no further than Queens as the perfect place for his development.

The master plan for Willets Point has always called for commercial and retail space, housing and a convention/exhibition center. The Queens Chamber of Commerce has long advocated for the re-development of Willets Point with the Convention/Exhibition Center being its prime element. As you look across the country, more and more you will find multi-use arenas that can serve the dual role of trade show/meeting space and a home for the Islanders. Look at what Willets Point has to offer:

1. 61 acres of open space located across from CitiField and next to the US Tennis Center.

2. Access to the subway, Long Island railroad, highways and airports.

3. Parking at Citifield and hotels at nearby LaGuardia Airport.

4. Land that has already received appropriate zoning in an area that has already been approved by NYC government and been through the environmental review process.

5. Easy access for the Islander fanbase.

Willets Point would be a perfect fit to Wang’s original vision.

What needs to happen next is discussion. Can a plan be constructed similar to the plan that allowed for the building of Citi Field and Yankee Stadium? Can a public-private partnership be formed that would meet both parties needs?

The Queens Chamber has always supported projects that bring jobs, incremental tax revenue and opportunities for local businesses. We have been long time advocates for a first class convention exhibition hall, something I believe a multi-use arena could be and a means by which Willets Point could be converted from a blight to an economic engine.

Now is the time for talks to begin. This is a great opportunity for everyone involved.
 
jcs17
Posts: 7376
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 11:13 am

RE: NHL: Voters Turn Down New Arena For Islanders

Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:49 am

I've been in a near catatonic state as a die-hard Islanders fan since the vote. I really don't want to read any more about the stupid building or the stupid vote, so I just look on Twitter to check for transactions and won't click anything with a link to arena info. It was so depressing to learn that the vote went down, and I'll say this -- although I would've voted "yes" if I lived there, I don't blame anyone in Nassau County for voting "no." Nassau County politics and governance is fantastic example of NIMBYism, partisan bickering, and sky-high salaries gone AWOL. Public officials in Nassau County have just disgusting salaries, benefits, and pension plans even when compared to NYC.

My aunt, who retired from teaching 30+ years in a district in Nassau gets something like 80% of her final salary for the rest of her life. And she was re-hired as a consultant after she retired, so she basically got her pension + her final salary when she worked a few days a week. If she lives long enough, she may die as a paper millionaire.

It's not Charles Wang's fault.

He had private backing for a privately financed refurbishment of the Coliseum, along with several new office buildings, and upscale apartment residences for the property. The Garden City GOP freaked out about traffic and municipal services and refused to back his plan, although Democrats generally supported it. He went to a default setting for most major sports teams in North America, asking for a small increase in taxation to provide for a new Coliseum as a private-public partnership, and was supported by the GOP, but opposed by Democrats.

He never can win in Nassau County, but I certainly hope there is something in Flushing for him. Either way, it's a loss for any of us who hold out hope that the team can stay in New York.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
aviationbuff08
Posts: 97
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:54 am

RE: NHL: Voters Turn Down New Arena For Islanders

Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:30 am

Quoting srbmod (Reply 1):

As for potential relocation cities, that's really too early to speculate on when you consider that the Phoenix Coyotes situation still needs to be settled (I don't see them in Phoenix after this season, as there's no way the City Of Glendale throws another penny to subsidize losses. especially in the wake of the Atlanta relocation that was pretty much done to help offset the losses in Phoenix. True North was within 10 minutes of buying the Coyotes, as the announcement the the City Of Glendale was going to help cover losses for this season came right before the deadline, and had the deadline passed, the NHL was going to sell the Coyotes to True North. Once the deal with the City Of Glendale was announced, True North almost immediately started negotiations with Atlanta Scumbags Spirit LLC to buy the Thrashers.).

Good to know I am not the only NHL fan to believe these two issues are related. Now I am going to have to spend more $ and take an airplane ride to see an NHL hockey game. I agree Atlanta Spirit LLC is a group of scumbags that only wanted the Atlanta Hawks but good ole Turner Broadcasting wouldn't sell them separately. Their actions as owners proved that they had no interests in the NHL franchise. I pledge to never set foot in philips arena for anything, let alone a Hawks game as long as Atlanta Spirit group is calling the shots. And I also hope there is a full season NBA LOCKOUT so Atlanta Spirit group can loose even more money.

Back to the Islanders, with the lighthouse project being rejected, and now this. Its certain they will be leaving as soon as the current lease is up, if not before. The writting is on the wall in bold letters even by now.
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 14282
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: NHL: Voters Turn Down New Arena For Islanders

Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:34 am

Quoting jfk69 (Reply 24):
What needs to happen next is discussion. Can a plan be constructed similar to the plan that allowed for the building of Citi Field and Yankee Stadium? Can a public-private partnership be formed that would meet both parties needs?

Not going to happen in this economy, you cannot compare what the Yankees can do to what the Flyers can do in terms of winning support for a new stadium. And with the Mets they were lucky they secured financing and that rediculous Citi-group naming rights when they did, if they were trying to do that today in the current econominc crisis there's no way they would be able to secure the funding. Plus how on earth could it be profitable to add another arena to the area, there's already too many.

It's Brooklyn or another State.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
connies4ever
Posts: 3393
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:54 pm

RE: NHL: Voters Turn Down New Arena For Islanders

Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:02 pm

Quoting jfk69 (Reply 21):
Brooklyn may not be as good as an option as we may think:

"Barclays Center CEO Brett Yormark confirmed in a statement that the arena can support a professional hockey team (albeit at a smaller capacity than basketball)."

I have seen articles translate that to approx 14,500 to 15k seats. Not really optimum to make a buck. The Russian owner has also stated that right now he has no interest in owning a second professional team.

Don't be so sure. TNSE expect to make a whack of $$$ at MTS Centre and that only seats 15,015 for hockey. At an average ticket price of $89 and a projected 100% sellout over several years, TNSE are looking at something like $54M in gate revenue every year, not to mention the TV/radio money, naming rights, etc. The building can be expanded but there is no plan to do so at the moment -- keeps demand for tickets up.

Barclays Center might work, the ticket price probably would require a bump over what TNSE are charging, but hey, it's New York.

But I am still intrigued by a possible move to Toronto. Dave Shoalts of the "Globe and Mail" mentioned this a couple of years back in an article about franchise relocation.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
jfk69
Posts: 1197
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 3:04 am

RE: NHL: Voters Turn Down New Arena For Islanders

Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:49 pm

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 28):
Don't be so sure. TNSE expect to make a whack of $$$ at MTS Centre and that only seats 15,015 for hockey. At an average ticket price of $89 and a projected 100% sellout over several years, TNSE are looking at something like $54M in gate revenue every year, not to mention the TV/radio money, naming rights, etc. The building can be expanded but there is no plan to do so at the moment -- keeps demand for tickets up.

Barclays Center might work, the ticket price probably would require a bump over what TNSE are charging, but hey, it's New York.

But I am still intrigued by a possible move to Toronto. Dave Shoalts of the "Globe and Mail" mentioned this a couple of years back in an article about franchise relocation.

As much as I would love to, we can't compare the Jets and the Isles. Hockey will sadly always be the red headed step child in NY. The Isles and Devils jockey to be 8 out 9 in a 9 team town. With that said the Jets could sell out 25k seats if they had to.

I laugh at how people yell at the ticket prices for the Isles as well. I had season tixx from 01-09. My seats were section 339 row D which if you know the coliseum is between the faceoff circle and the goal line and pretty damn good seats. My cost per seat per game was $38 a game. They have just offered me the same seats for this coming season for $34 a game. The seats are affordable compared to other venues in the area......problem is you are paying for a crap product in a crap building (though the young kids are looking good so far)
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14210
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: NHL: Voters Turn Down New Arena For Islanders

Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:59 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 27):
It's Brooklyn or another State.

Personally I don't see them moving. In today's Newsday Wang seems to want to keep them in NY. He said he would pull them as a way to scare people into voting and it blew up in his face.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 14282
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: NHL: Voters Turn Down New Arena For Islanders

Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:03 am

Quoting jfk69 (Reply 29):
As much as I would love to, we can't compare the Jets and the Isles. Hockey will sadly always be the red headed step child in NY. The Isles and Devils jockey to be 8 out 9 in a 9 team town. With that said the Jets could sell out 25k seats if they had to.

I hope you mean the "Nets", not the "Jets". I go to Jets games and they are a couple more than "25,000K". Plus there's about a 20 year waiting list for season tickets.


Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 30):
Personally I don't see them moving. In today's Newsday Wang seems to want to keep them in NY. He said he would pull them as a way to scare people into voting and it blew up in his face.

Wall Street just dropped 500pts today. Federal, State and Local Governments are slashing spending. There's no way in heck a new arena is being built in the NYC area in the next 5-10 years, it's either they commit to a lease extension at the Nassau coliseum that brings them midway through the next decade or they move. If they move they're going to move to an existing arena waiting for a new tenant, ie. Barclays' in Brooklyn, Kansas City, Seattle, Portland etc..

Wang will probably end up selling the team.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14210
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: NHL: Voters Turn Down New Arena For Islanders

Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:35 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 31):
Wall Street just dropped 500pts today. Federal, State and Local Governments are slashing spending. There's no way in heck a new arena is being built in the NYC area in the next 5-10 years,

The real estate market in NY is not as bad as CA or NV in fact once we boot Obama out next year I see things inproving. That site has interest and I think something will happen by the time the lease is up.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 31):
Wang will probably end up selling the team.

Probably but that doesn't mean they are going to move out of town.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 14282
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: NHL: Voters Turn Down New Arena For Islanders

Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:16 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 32):
The real estate market in NY is not as bad as CA or NV in fact once we boot Obama out next year I see things inproving.



Can we keep the discussion to the real, and not the perceived, world.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
jfk69
Posts: 1197
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 3:04 am

RE: NHL: Voters Turn Down New Arena For Islanders

Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:14 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 31):
I hope you mean the "Nets", not the "Jets". I go to Jets games and they are a couple more than "25,000K". Plus there's about a 20 year waiting list for season tickets.

Yup, I meant the Nets, my mistake.

I was under the assumption that ever since the PSL's were introduced that there is no longer a waiting list for the Jets (or Giants for that matter)
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: NHL: Voters Turn Down New Arena For Islanders

Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:07 pm

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 28):
But I am still intrigued by a possible move to Toronto. Dave Shoalts of the "Globe and Mail" mentioned this a couple of years back in an article about franchise relocation.

I think that any team moving to the GTA is never going to happen, as the extortion fee, I mean territory/relocation fee they would have to pay to the Maple Leafs would probably be more than what the team would be worth. I've been hearing $100+ million, although in the wake of the $70 million relocation fee True North paid to move the Thrashers (With $20 million going to former Thrashers [and soon to be former Hawks] majority owner Bruce Levenson, which seems a bit odd and possibly in the gray area of business ethics [Oh wait, there does not appear to be any business ethics in the NHL.].), the relocation fee could be $100+ million, with the Maple Leafs taking a significant chunk similar to what the L.A. Kings got when Anaheim joined the NHL.

Although I do understand the reasoning behind putting another team in the GTA, especially since there are three teams in the NYC area and two teams in the L.A. area. Looking back, why did the NHL allow the Colorado Rockies to relocate to that market anyway? I know the owners of the Rangers, Flyers and Islanders didn't mind since they all got paid for the Devils "invading" their territories. It took the Devils a number of years after relocating to the Garden State to have success and yet they've still taken a backseat even within the state of the Rangers and Flyers. Back in the early 80s might have been a good time to relocate a team to the GTA, although I guess Harold Ballard would have demanded a pretty hefty territory fee, which would have scuttled that.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: TheF15Ace and 54 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos