Among English speakers, when did "loose" become an acceptable substitute for "lose"

"Loose" = The opposite of "tight"
"Lose" = The opposite of "win"

Obviously, non-native English speakers are exempt from this tirade
....but if you grew up speaking English -- no excuses!

Quoting kric777 (Thread starter): Among English speakers, when did "loose" become an acceptable substitute for "lose"

It did? I wasn't aware of that.

-Mir

This is one of those things that just drives me right up a wall, so to speak, when I see people use "loose" when they mean "lose." Another is when I realize that quite a lot of people seem to have no knowledge of the difference betwen their, there and they're. Just another example of the stupidity of the majority of the citizens of the United States. The worst part is, there is absolutely nothing we can do about it, because those that are uneducated simply do not care.

Quoting Mir (Reply 1): It did? I wasn't aware of that.

Nor was I; loose means not tight and nothing else. People who use it otherwise are mistaken.

Quoting Phen (Reply 3): People who use it otherwise are mistaken.

Or just lazy.

A mind is a terrible thing to loose.

I'd also like to know when then became a substitute for than, or of/have, etc.

Maybe I was the only one paying attention in English class in elementary school, but a lot (not alot) of basic stuff gets so screwed up (there/their/they're, to/too).

Every once in a while, I can just chalk it up to a typo or a couple of brain cells misfiring, but there are quite a lot of people, supposedly native "English" speakers, who just don't get it.

Quoting kric777 (Thread starter): Obviously, non-native English speakers are exempt from this tirade

I'm not a native speaker, but I don't make the mistake  

Unfortunately, 90% of French speakers make the mistake because of the phonetics.

lol, this is something that grinds my gears too!

Dislike when people use "your" to mean "you're"!

Your = possession - "that is your bike"
You're = Abbreviation of "you are"

Also people who get "to" and "too" wrong!

haha rant over! ^^

There are so many mistakes like that one here on a.net that drive me nuts. Examples:

Affect vs. effect.
Hanger vs. hangar
Your vs. you're

There are many more but these are the ones I remember now.

But the one that really, really annoys me (to the point of losing my mind) is "should of", "could of", "might of" and "would of" instead of "should have", "could have", "might have" and "would have". I have noticed this is a mistake made mostly by users with a U.S. flag, and not by other native English speakers such as Brits, Aussies, etc. It is shameful. This speaks very poorly of the U.S. elementary education system and very poorly of Americans generally, because it seems as though they do not read books and don't even know what they are saying. Seriously, think about it, what does "should of" mean? It means nothing. I think the mods should have included a rule about this... and users who are native speakers and break this rule constantly should be banned!!!

Sorry for the rant.

While we're on about grammar, I really get p***ed of when people put a space before punctuation marks (?, !, ., etc.), and commas and after brackets. I know it's only a small thing but it really annoys me! A surprising amount of people do it too.

Hi ! How are you today ? ( etc , etc . )
 

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 8): I have noticed this is a mistake made mostly by users with a U.S. flag, and not by other native English speakers such as Brits, Aussies, etc.

This is a very common mistake amongst some of us British.

"Fewer" and "less" is another pet hate.

Quoting Phen (Reply 3): loose means not tight and nothing else.

It can also mean "of easy virtue", eg. "Loose Women" (a popular daytime TV show)

Quoting toby25 (Reply 7): "your" to mean "you're"

And "yore", as in "days of yore", "long ago".

"It's" and "its" ...

The list can go on...

signol

Quoting homsar (Reply 5): I'd also like to know when then became a substitute for than

I've noticed that a lot lately too, especially from my younger Facebook friends.

Quoting homsar (Reply 5): (not alot)

Oh don't get me started!!! It used to be confined to "alot", but recently I've noticed the increasing usage of "afew", "abit", "alittle" etc., etc.   

Quoting kric777 (Thread starter): ....but if you grew up speaking English -- no excuses!

Same for Their/they're/there...it's not that deep...
Also, some people do not seem to grasp the difference between "it's" and "its"...

Quoting kric777 (Thread starter): Among English speakers, when did "loose" become an acceptable substitute for "lose"

As far as I know it has never been accepted that "lose" and "loose" mean the same thing or can be used in the same way. As others have pointed out, "loose" is an adjective that means unfixed, insecure, unclear, etc. For example, loose change, a loose connection. "Lose" is a verb indicating the loss or failure to retain something, for example to lose face.

For purists it is unfortunate that with the advent of the Internet, where everyone is a self-published author, there is little checking of spelling, let alone of grammar. The problem is further compounded by reliance on that ugly named programme "spellcheck" that assumes an American preference and ignores context. Not that American preference is wrong but any decent proof reader should be able to distinguish between to, too and two. If a programme can't do something as simple as that, why would we imagine that it can distinguish your from you're or there from their or they're?

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 9): punctuation marks

Punctuation should be a guide to interpretation in much the same way that spelling is. Spelling differences are often easier to deal with because the meaning is more immediately clear. Punctuation, on the other hand, sometimes does not make things so.

Rules of clauses and subordinate clause, when to start a new paragraph, direct and indirect speech all require different treatment. Does placing a comma before or after a bracket or other break in speech serve to enhance understanding or make things confusing? In providing links to web pages, misplaced commas can lead to dead links, so a break may be necessary. In this instance a gap is vital!

Over time rules of both spelling and grammar change. The question that must always be kept uppermost is whether what is written serves to make things clear to the person reading what is written. It really doesn't matter whether the writer knew what he wanted to say.

http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/05/12/99-grammar/

Quoting formerflyer31 (Reply 2): Just another example of the stupidity of the majority of the citizens of the United States.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 8): This speaks very poorly of the U.S. elementary education system and very poorly of Americans generally,

Nice American bashing. And, might I add, not at all played out or cliched.   

Quoting kric777 (Thread starter): Among English speakers, when did "loose" become an acceptable substitute for "lose"

When the education systems of english speaking countries failed to do their job properly.

I always find it fascinating how even the most liberal of people will viciously attack so-called "poor grammar", as if every single rule of a language must be set in stone.

The clash between written and spoken language, where different rules exist, ensures that any language will continually morph and evolve as they chase each other around, like a dog chases it's own tail. (See? It's and it's. Two different words with different meanings, but spelled the same and pronounced the same. One is a noun-verb clause, the other is a possessive clause.)

Words and speech are merely approximations of ideas and thoughts.

Also, I'd like to point out the the following two clauses:

Quoting formerflyer31 (Reply 2): Just another example of the stupidity of the majority of the citizens of the United States.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 8): But the one that really, really annoys me

Are grammatically "incorrect", and are also used the same way in other English-speaking countries. So much for your self-righteous American hating troll posts.

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 9): I really get p***ed of when people put a space before punctuation marks

The typo rule in France is to put a space before the exclamation mark, the interrogation mark, the colon and the semi-colon (not in front of commas, full stops or brackets, though), so you might have seen French people doing the mistake while writing in English 

French from Canada uses the English rule (i.e. no space at all).

Noone. To me, this is 1200 hours with a superfluous e at the end.

Quoting kric777 (Thread starter): Among English speakers, when did "loose" become an acceptable substitute for "lose"

A.net (home of "would of", "could of" , "should of" and "might of" ( Grrrrrrr!) ) is probably pretty much a lost cause when it comes to the subject of acceptable English usage. The few members who care about the language seem to be fighting a losing ( not "loosing"  ) battle.

The Brit took harbor in the harbour whilst the American took harbor in the harbor.

Isn't language wonderfully funny at times?

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 17): The typo rule in France is to put a space before the exclamation mark, the interrogation mark, the colon and the semi-colon (not in front of commas, full stops or brackets, though), so you might have seen French people doing the mistake while writing in English  French from Canada uses the English rule (i.e. no space at all).

Interesting! I'll note that the next time I go to France  

Maverick, you are right. I wrote:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 8): But the one that really, really annoys me...

I should have written "However, the one that really, really annoys me..." instead. An apology. Nonetheless, that does not change the fact that "should of" and the other similar expressions I mentioned are gross mistakes. I am not a native English speaker, yet the mere sight of "should of" makes me really angry. Seriously, in my opinion, the fact that so many native English speakers make that mistake tells me there is something wrong with elementary-level education and that people do not have the habit of reading.

Our friend Signol said:

Quoting signol (Reply 10): This is a very common mistake amongst some of us British.

If it makes you happier, Maverick, I will change my statement in order for it to read:

"This speaks very poorly of Britain's and the U.S. elementary education systems, and very poorly of Brits and Americans generally, because it seems as though they do not read books and don't even know what they are saying. Seriously, think about it, what does "should of" mean? It means nothing."

Better now? Are you happy? I don't know where you got the notion I am a self-righteous American hater. I live in New York City very happily, and I have met throughout my life many, many Americans who are awesome people. I do not believe you should stereotype me based on one single post that simply refers to my feelings with respect to a mistake made too frequently on these forums.

Quoting toby25 (Reply 7): You're = Abbreviation of "you are"

It's actually a contraction. ''Esp.'', ''resp.'' are abbreviations of ''especially'' and ''respectively'', respectively. ''WHO'', ''WTO'', ''r.s.v.p.'' are acronyms for 'World Health Organization'', ''World Trade Organization'' and ''répondez s'il vous plaît''.

You know, just sayin'   And that, by the way, was incorrect English.

Quoting something (Reply 23): And that, by the way, was incorrect English.

As, of course, is starting a sentence with a conjunction!  

The genesis of my original post was the frequency with which I see people write things like:
"If UA looses money this year, they might not buy 787s." or
"If Boeing looses out to Airbus for the big EK order..."
I see this garbage all the time on A.net....inexcusable given the number of really smart folks that post here...

I've already accepted the fact that most people apparently don't understand the difference between "could of" and "could have".....but "loose" vs. "lose" is just blatant ignorance -- not even the same meaning  

Again -- lots of non-native English speakers here, you are exempt from this  

I found this on Yahoo about a year or so ago, and had to take a screenshot.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 22): Nonetheless, that does not change the fact that "should of" and the other similar expressions I mentioned are gross mistakes.

As is starting a sentence with a conjunction. I learned that by the 1st grade. You don't see me calling you or your country all kinds of names because you couldn't learn that simple rule by the time you supposedly became an expert in English grammar, or even in linguistics as a whole.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 22): I don't know where you got the notion I am a self-righteous American hater.

This post:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 8): I have noticed this is a mistake made mostly by users with a U.S. flag, and not by other native English speakers such as Brits, Aussies, etc

Which you quickly (but only partially) retracted when called out by a British poster.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 22): I do not believe you should stereotype me based on one single post that simply refers to my feelings with respect to a mistake made too frequently on these forums.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 22): Seriously, in my opinion, the fact that so many native English speakers make that mistake tells me there is something wrong with elementary-level education and that people do not have the habit of reading.

So it's okay to stereotype an entire country and its education system based on the "mistakes" of a few dozen online forum members that happen to be from all around the world, but I can't "stereotype" (BTW, that's not the correct word. The term you want is "judge") you for being a hypocrite?

Get real, dude.

It's dangerous to get me started on the subject of grammar.

My message to the masses is this: "Standard Time" is not, at all, in any way whatsoever the same thing as "Daylight Time!!!!!!!!!!"

  

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 16): like a dog chases it's own tail. (See? It's and it's. Two different words with different meanings, but spelled the same and pronounced the same. One is a noun-verb clause, the other is a possessive clause.)

Sorry, but you're mistaken. "It's" is incorrect in that context - the possessive clause you're thinking of is actually "its". Use "it's" only when you'd otherwise say "it is", as in "it's raining outside." So you should be saying "like a dog chases its own tail."

-Mir

I've noticed I've been making more mistakes and having to think about things more as I get older. The internet is not helping either and this is spot on.....

Quoting Quokka (Reply 13): The problem is further compounded by reliance on that ugly named programme "spellcheck"

What nobody is mentioning however is the mess that is the English language. I have real pity for people trying to learn it.

The other thing that drives me up the wall is when people don't know how to use apostrophes correctly..like..

AC has 14 747s in it's fleet...NOT - AC has 14 747's in its fleet... (no apostrophe in "its" and the wrongly placed apostrophe in "747's").

DVDs when talking about plural...NOT DVD's or CD's or video's (the local Blockbuster store has this plastered all over..I've even told them this, no one seems to care), TAXIS...not TAXI'S etc etc.

  

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 31): AC has 14 747s in it's fleet...NOT - AC has 14 747's in its fleet...

Both of these are incorrect. The first is incorrect because it should have "its" and not "it's". The second is incorrect because there is no apostrophe in "747s". Thus, the sentence should read "AC has 14 747s in its fleet."

-Mir

Quoting Mir (Reply 32): Both of these are incorrect. The first is incorrect because it should have "its" and not "it's".

edit: nevermind, I have no business in this thread.

[Edited 2011-08-06 21:45:09]

The exception to the general rule that one should use an apostrophe to indicate possession is in possessive pronouns.

[Edited 2011-08-06 22:02:48]

This site is littered with people misusing "is" and "are" and "has" and "have". I was reading a thread a week or two ago and I kept seeing the phrase "Boeing are..." or "Boeing have...". Boeing is one company, a single company. When talking about a single item, we say/write "Boeing is..." or "Boeing has...".

Quoting Mir (Reply 29): Sorry, but you're mistaken. "It's" is incorrect in that context - the possessive clause you're thinking of is actually "its". Use "it's" only when you'd otherwise say "it is", as in "it's raining outside." So you should be saying "like a dog chases its own tail."

Yeah... I caught that, but it was too late to edit it out. D'oh!   

Quoting mham001 (Reply 30): What nobody is mentioning however is the mess that is the English language. I have real pity for people trying to learn it.

That is true, however many of the worst grammatical atrocities are committed by native speakers. I think that non-native speakers, for the most part, try harder, and are more inclined to check usage if they are unsure.

Quoting BAViscount (Reply 24): As, of course, is starting a sentence with a conjunction!

haha love it!  

Quoting toby25 (Reply 7): You're = Abbreviation of "you are"

Hate to tell you this Toby, but it's not an abbreviation, it's a "contraction".............................

[quote=EddieDude,reply=8]But the one that really, really annoys me (to the point of losing my mind) is "should of", "could of", "might of" and "would of" instead of "should have", "could have", "might have" and "would have". I have noticed this is a mistake made mostly by users with a U.S. flag, and not by other native English speakers such as Brits, Aussies, etc. It is shameful. This speaks very poorly of the U.S. elementary education system and very poorly of Americans generally, because it seems as though they do not read books and don't even know what they are saying. Seriously, think about it, what does "should of" mean? It means nothing. I think the mods should have included a rule about this... and users who are native speakers and break this rule constantly should be banned!!!


EddieDude;

I wish my Spanish was as good as your English! And while I don't necessarily disagree with you about our education system, I really think it has more to do with a huge % of people just being "sloppy", "lazy", and just plain "don't care" what they sound like.

[quote=AmricanShamrok,reply=9]While we're on about grammar, I really get p***ed of when people put a space before punctuation marks (?, !, ., etc.), and commas and after brackets. I know it's only a small thing but it really annoys me! A surprising amount of people do it too.

American Shamrock; If you read a bunch of my posts, you will notice very few of the things listed above your post, not because I'm smart, but more because I am by nature, very "precise"; not just in typing, but in almost everything I do.

The thing you mentioned is the ONE exception; I almost always leave a space between the last letter and the exclamation mark; the reason being...........it gets back to my "fetish" for "precise"; with many fonts, such as this one I'm typing with now, if the exclamation mark is right against, say, the letter "l", it just looks like one too many l's.
My better half, who for many years was a banker and before that, a legal secretary, ( and who types like 120 WPM ( to my pathetic 10 or 12 ), rags on me all the time for that very thing! Also, I almost always put the coma after the bracket, and again, simply because it "looks" better to me!

I sometime work with a lot of different fonts; this works quite different in various different fonts.

Charley

I've also started noticing people using "me" instead of "my". (eg. I got into me car.) And spell checkers won't pick that one up as both are correctly spelt words!

signol

And I thought.....
Grey v/s Gray was a problem  

The use of 'off of' drives me batty. The 'of' is almost always superfluous.

Quoting signol (Reply 39): eg. I got into me car.

That strikes me as a very Australian/ocker thing. You hear a lot of that in rural Australia (or amongst the bogans of the suburbs... *cough*).

Quoting BAViscount (Reply 11): I've noticed the increasing usage of "afew", "abit", "alittle" etc., etc.

Once a foreign student learns 'alot of' it is almost totally impossible to get them to separate the words again. For some it's impossible to comprehend 'a' as a word in itself.

Even I get stuck sometimes with 'lose your way'. For some reason I want to use 'loose'.

Choose and chose often confuse people too.

Lie - lied - lied; Lie - lay - lain; Lay - laid - laid seems to be one of the greatest sources of confusion, especially since you lie down but you're laying on the bed to get laid.

A common mistake I see (mostly from our US members) is "could care less" instead of "couldn't care less". I don't think the problem is lack of education, it's just being a bit lazy. Something we are all guilty of.  

Quoting unattendedbag (Reply 34): This site is littered with people misusing "is" and "are" and "has" and "have". I was reading a thread a week or two ago and I kept seeing the phrase "Boeing are..." or "Boeing have...". Boeing is one company, a single company. When talking about a single item, we say/write "Boeing is..." or "Boeing has...".

What you're doing here is highlighting a difference between British English and American English. In British English a collective noun (eg., Boeing) can take either the singular or plural verb form, therefore "Boeing have..." and "Boeing are..." are just as correct as "Boeing has..." and "Boeing is...". However in American English collective nouns generally take the singular verb form, so to you as an American (well I'm assuming you are anyway because of your flag!) only "Boeing has..." and "Boeing is..." would sound correct.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 8): Affect vs. effect.

I managed to get both into one sentence in a recent post that the "effect would affect everyone"

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 27): Quoting EddieDude (Reply 22): Nonetheless, that does not change the fact that "should of" and the other similar expressions I mentioned are gross mistakes. As is starting a sentence with a conjunction. I learned that by the 1st grade. You don't see me calling you or your country all kinds of names because you couldn't learn that simple rule by the time you supposedly became an expert in English grammar, or even in linguistics as a whole.

Assuming you mean "Nonetheless" ahem:
Main Entry: nonetheless
Part of Speech: adverb
Definition: nevertheless
"Neverthless", "nonetheless", "however" and a few comrades are words that should be placed further into the sentence.

OR AS IN
Words such as nonetheless should, however, be placed further into the sentence - as in just after the verb.

Quoting Quokka (Reply 13): The problem is further compounded by reliance on that ugly named programme "spellcheck" that assumes an American preference and ignores context.

I think the system assumes you are the Wizard of Oz, which may well be true! But why can they not have a spelling checker for the rest of us?

Quoting signol (Reply 39): I've also started noticing people using "me" instead of "my". (eg. I got into me car.) And spell checkers won't pick that one up as both are correctly spelt words!

And interestingly Spelling [sic] Grammar in Word 2007 cannot disentangle that either. I had assumed it would. Then again, I tend not to write me or my too much in reports that matter.

Quoting bookishaviator (Reply 41): That strikes me as a very Australian/ocker thing. You hear a lot of that in rural Australia (or amongst the bogans of the suburbs... *cough*).

And as an intentional imitation too on rare occasions.

I am amused at the number of planes that land on boggies. Sounds unpromising to me.

Their, there. To too. Weather, whether and the odd wether can get mixed us.

Quoting homsar (Reply 26): I found this on Yahoo about a year or so ago, and had to take a screenshot.

Newspapers here are tending to reduce sub-editor numbers and likely that will spread to other media. So look forward to many more such splendours.

Well, sorry to burst your bubble but I pronounce both words ALMOST the same but I know how to spell them.
Loose= My shoelace is "loos"
Lose= Did you "looz" the game? (the s sound is more of a z sound)

Quoting BAViscount (Reply 45): In British English a collective noun (eg., Boeing) can take either the singular or plural verb form,

Very interesting, I did not know that. Thanks!

Quoting Airstud (Reply 28): My message to the masses is this: "Standard Time" is not, at all, in any way whatsoever the same thing as "Daylight Time!!!!!!!!!!"

Agreed!

It's as though people are trying to sound intelligent by saying "Eastern STANDARD Time" instead of simply "Eastern Time" or "New York (or other East Coast city) time", but making an ass out of themselves because it's the middle of July. FAIL.





[Edited 2011-08-19 16:04:11]