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vishaljo
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World's Greatest Sportsman

Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:04 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14679426

Who is your pick?

I'll go with our God: Sachin Tendulkar!
 
photopilot
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:16 pm

I'd go with Michael Schumacher.

Known pretty much worldwide (by billions)
One of the two richest atheletes in the world (Tiger was the other one till the ex got 1/2)
7 World Championships.
Over a 20 year carreer.
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:27 pm

Quoting photopilot (Reply 1):
I'd go with Michael Schumacher.

He doesn't hold a candle to Ayrton Senna, IMO, even if Schumi had more wins.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:57 pm

Undoubtly the Best sportsman & Excellent role model

Sachin Tendulkar.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
racko
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:12 pm

The vast majority of the world probably has never even heard the name "Sachin Tendulkar".

Pelé.
 
Kiwirob
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:30 pm

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 2):
He doesn't hold a candle to Ayrton Senna, IMO, even if Schumi had more wins.

I don't even think Senna was a good as Prost, let alone Schumacher, both drivers have superior records, both have more fastest laps, more wins and more championships.

Senna was a great driver but I think we are all remembering him in a favourable light due to the nature of his death rather than his record on the track.

Quoting racko (Reply 4):
The vast majority of the world probably has never even heard the name "Sachin Tendulkar".

Close to 25% if not more of the world would know who Sachin is.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:20 pm

I am thinking of a few

Pele for football

Schumi for F1

Bjorn Borg for tennis

Marcel Cerdan and Cassius Clay (Muhammad Ali) for boxing

Akebono and Konnichki for Sumo

  
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
BMI727
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:48 pm

Another cliched article on a cliched subject. That said, a lot of articles covering this are better written.

Mr. Eastaway disqualifies Alex Rodriguez for the title on the grounds of

Quote:
But can he really be called the world's greatest when his name barely registers in public consciousness outside his own country?

First, I wasn't aware that America had taken over most of Latin America and the Caribbean.

Secondly, who does he go on to determine is the "World's Greatest Sportsperson?" Sachin Tendulkar, who probably barely registers in the public consciousness outside his own country. Although it is somewhat admirable, if only in an eye-rolling sense, for Eastaway to attempt to take the article in a somewhat contrarian direction, if you must set some arbitrary criteria to answer an open ended question in a cookie cutter sports article, at least follow those criteria for the entirety of the article. Next time there is a slow news day and such a piece becomes necessary, feel free to create a new set of arbitrary criteria even if it is only to satisfy the desire for a fresh take on a stale question.

But, if we take Eastaway at his word that a billion people cannot be wrong then my answer is that the greatest sportsperson is Kobe Bryant. I would say LeBron James but I think his lack of a ring probably disqualifies him. Why? Kobe is probably the most accomplished basketball player currently playing, and why basketball? While it's long been popular in the US, and seemingly found a renaissance in the last couple years especially with the creation of a villain in the Miami Heat (that may be squandered in labor strife) basketball is blowing up in China. During the lockout some NBA stars have taken to playing in Asia either with teams or on barnstorming tours. If the NBA can right their labor ship and keep up what they are doing, China could print money for the Association.
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TransIsland
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:00 pm

My vote: Jesse Owens

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 5):
Close to 25% if not more of the world would know who Sachin is.

That means a vast majority, who fail to appreciate the art that is cricket, don't know.
I'm an aviation expert. I have Sky Juice for breakfast.
 
fruitbat
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:22 pm

Until a couple of years ago, I'd have said Tiger Woods, until personal "issues" tarnished his name.

So on a similar theme, what about Jack Nicklaus? An incredibly competitive sportsman, his record of 19 majors now looks unlikely to be ever beaten. Plus he epitomises the sport and represents it and himself with honour wherever and whenever he appears these days.

Or maybe we should think about tennis grand slam multiple winners - Federer, Borg, McInroe, Sampras, Williams (x2), Navratilova, Graf, Agassi?

The problem with nominating an individual in a team sport (Tendulkar, Bryant et al) is precisely that it's difficult to say how good they would be without the team around them. For example in Football (Soccer) Pele, Maradona, Best, Messi are (were) all supported by exceptional teams that allow(ed) them to express their genius.

And yes, I understand the argument that cricket is both and individual sport (whilst batting) and a team sport (whilst in the field) but the two are so interlinked I don't agree with it.

So I suggest someone tries to better define the question and then I'll have another go.
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BlueElephant
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:33 pm

If i'm being completely honest, a lot of the world doesn't know who Sachin Tendulkar is.

But they should know who he is.

In terms of the best world athlete right now (my picks) are...

SachinTendulkar, Lionel Messi, Raphael Nadal and Roger Federer
 
fruitbat
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:57 pm

A few more for your consideration:

Phil "The Power" Taylor (umpteen times World Darts Champion)

Mark Cavendish (greatest cycling sprinter ever?)

Lance Armstrong (cancer, then conquer the T de F - you know the story)

Sir Steve Redgrave (Five Olympic Golds across Five Olympic Games - thats over a 16 year period)

Ian Thorpe (loadsa Olympic gold)

Michael Phelps (loads and loadsa Olympic gold)

Usain Bolt (when he doesn't false start!)

Haile Gebrselassie (set the world marathon record at the age of 35)
Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel.
 
exFATboy
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:42 pm

Ah, yes, the "can we determine the greatest athletes?" argument. I'm not sure it's possible, even for the simplest of individual sports. Take, for example, the 100 meters - seems simple enough, right? But today, isn't it run (at the world championship level) on an artificial surface? And there have been many developments in shoe technology, training techniques, nutrition, and so on. I think it's possible to compare athletes in the same general era, but more difficult across time.

As for team sports, it's even harder, especially since there is no one truly global sport - yes football (soccer to us Yanks) comes close, but there are many countries where soccer is played but does not attract top athletes - besides the United States and Canada, there's India, Australia, and much of the Caribbean. Americans don't play cricket or rugby professionally, vast swaths of the world don't play hockey*, and so on.

So to pick one athlete from one sport and say he's the "world's greatest sportsman" is almost impossible.

Even name recognition isn't really a guide within a given country or countries where a sport is popular - "recognition" doesn't automatically mean a high approval rate. (See "United Airlines"...   ) Sure, most baseball fans, and even many Americans who aren't baseball fans will recognize A-Rod's name, but a lot of those people - possibly even a majority, even among Yankee fans - consider him an overpaid, over-rated prima donna who has never lived up to his potential, at least not consistently.

There's a reason why this scene was so popular in New York, after all...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mHxgzotMms

(jump to the last 10 seconds)

And it's even harder when you try to take into account a player's impact on their sport beyond their own team, and a player's role in the larger society.

That all said, of course Wayne Gretzky is the greatest team athlete of all time.


* "Hockey" is the game played on ice. The game played on grass is "field hockey".
 
EDICHC
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:11 am

Quoting exFATboy (Reply 12):
* "Hockey" is the game played on ice. The game played on grass is "field hockey".

The IOC describes them as Ice Hockey and Hockey respectively.
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Superfly
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:57 am

Wilt Chamberlain.
He was known to have had sex with over 20,000 women. Let's be honest, getting girls is a big reason many guys go in to sports.
Bring back the Concorde
 
baroque
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:14 am

If he was not dead, Walter Lindrum must have been in consideration
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Lindrum
I cannot think of any others cited here that were so good they caused the rules to be changed to try to reign him in.

Not that I know a thing about billiards, I hasten to add.
 
iakobos
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:33 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 14):
He was known to have had sex with over 20,000 women.

That's peanuts, what would be undeniably a world-class performance would be to have 20,000 times sex with the same woman.   

Quoting Baroque (Reply 15):
Not that I know a thing about billiards, I hasten to add.

Another one to bring to your attention then...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Ceulemans

As one of the most gifted athletes I would cast my vote on
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Thorpe
 
Kiwirob
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:12 am

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 6):
Bjorn Borg for tennis

Sampras and Fed have well and truely shaded Borgs career.

Quoting fruitbat (Reply 11):
Lance Armstrong (cancer, then conquer the T de F - you know the story)

But he only rode in the Tour d France, Eddy Merckx was a far better rider with multiple wins in all the classic tours.
 
Superfly
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:13 am

Quoting iakobos (Reply 16):
what would be undeniably a world-class performance would be to have 20,000 times sex with the same woman.

That would defeat the purpose of being an athlete.
Bring back the Concorde
 
iakobos
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:09 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 18):
That would defeat the purpose of being an athlete.

No, that would be the sublimation of specialization and professionalism.
 
B777LRF
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:10 pm

There are very few true world sports, and the biggest and most widely enjoyed of those is football (the real kind, where you use your feet to kick a ball). No if's or but's; on a world scale nothing comes close. It would therefore make sense to pick someone from the world of football, and with that in mind my vote would go to Pele.

As for Senna not being the greatest driver ever in F1, I agree. I'm wrong, I know I'm wrong, but I agree - my vote goes to Jim Clarke. I believe it was Jeremy Clarkson who said it best: Gilles (Villeneuve) was spectacular some of the time - Ayrton was spectacular every single time he got in the car. There's more, much more, to it than winning races when you're sat in the best car, as was the case with Fangio and Schumacher. Senna raced in a field of titans, which included Prost, Mansell and Piquet. He drove uncompetitive cars to results far and above what any other driver could have achieved, his performance at Monaco in the Toleman might just be the ultimate triumph of talent. And if you ask any other driver in F1 today who the greatest was, and that includes Schumacher, Hamilton, Vettel and Button, they all say Senna.
Signature. You just read one.
 
travelavnut
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:18 pm

Duh, Johan Cruyff of course!  
Live From Amsterdam!
 
EDICHC
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:52 pm

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 20):
my vote goes to Jim Clarke.

It was Jim Clark..without the 'e'.

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 20):
There are very few true world sports, and the biggest and most widely enjoyed of those is football (the real kind, where you use your feet to kick a ball). No if's or but's; on a world scale nothing comes close. It would therefore make sense to pick someone from the world of football, and with that in mind my vote would go to Pele.

   Absolutely!
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sw733
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:01 pm

Quoting vishaljo (Thread starter):
Sachin Tendulkar!
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 3):
Sachin Tendulkar.

And for the other 195 countries in the world?  
Quoting TransIsland (Reply 8):
the art that is cricket

How about the "art" of an EWR-SIN flight? They both last around the same amount of time.   

Quoting fruitbat (Reply 11):
Phil "The Power" Taylor (umpteen times World Darts Champion)

I love a good game of darts, but I have trouble classifying it as a sport if I can do it in a bar with a Guinness in my hand  

And yes, I know...take a joke folks.

Quoting fruitbat (Reply 11):
Ian Thorpe (loadsa Olympic gold)

Perhaps my vote...probably my vote

Quoting Superfly (Reply 14):
Wilt Chamberlain.
He was known to have had sex with over 20,000 women.

  

At least I have one thing in common with him!

Unfortunately, that one thing is a University of Kansas education, not 20,000 women. Bummer...
 
Mortyman
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:45 pm

Bjørn Dæhlie - cross country skiier

Dæhlie won a total of 29 medals in the Olympics and World Championships in the period between 1991 and 1999, making Dæhlie the most successful cross-country skier in history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bj%C3%B8rn_D%C3%A6hlie

Kjetil André Aamodt a Norwegian former alpine ski racer, one of the most decorated in history.

He is the only Alpine skier to win 8 Olympic medals, and has won 5 World Championship gold medals as well as 21 individual World Cup events. Described as an all-round alpine skier, Aamodt participated in all alpine skiing disciplines in the World Cup and World Championships, and is one of only 5 male alpine skiers to have won a World Cup race in all five disciplines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kjetil_Andr%C3%A9_Aamodt

Andreas Thorkildsen

a Norwegian javelin thrower, born in Kristiansand. He is the first male javelin thrower in history to be both European champion, World champion and Olympic champion. He was Olympic champion in 2004 and 2008, European champion in 2006 and 2010, World Champion in 2009 as well as twice silver medalist at the World championships in 2005 and 2007.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreas_Thorkildsen


Marit Bjørgen

a Norwegian cross country skier and triple olympic champion from Midtre Gauldal, Norway. Bjørgen is the most successful sprinter in Cross-Country World Cup history, with twenty-four victories. She is ranked first in the all-time Cross-Country World Cup rankings together with fellow Norwegian Bjørn Dæhlie, with forty-six individual victories. One of her most notable achievements was becoming the most successful athlete at the Vancouver 2010 Winter Olympics, by winning five medals, including three gold medals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marit_Bj%C3%B8rgen

[Edited 2011-08-29 07:04:28]
 
baroque
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:51 pm

Quoting iakobos (Reply 16):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 15):
Not that I know a thing about billiards, I hasten to add.

Another one to bring to your attention then...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond...emans

I just love having my opinion confirmed. After trying to read that reference, I DEFINITELY know nothing about billiards, not even the little I thought I knew!!! Amazing!
 
trident3
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:58 pm

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 20):
his performance at Monaco in the Toleman might just be the ultimate triumph of talent.

except that if the race had gone on for another 5 laps both he and Prost would have been caught by Stefan Bellof, in a car with about 150 less horsepower. How many Grand Prix Bellof would have won we will never know.
"We are the warrior race-Tough men in the toughest sport." Brian Noble, Head Coach, Great Britain Rugby League.
 
Kiwirob
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:02 pm

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 20):
Ayrton was spectacular every single time he got in the car.

No he wasn't often he could be pretty average. The fact that Prost had a better record than him when the raced mostly at the same time proves it.

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 20):
to it than winning races when you're sat in the best car, as was the case with Fangio and Schumacher

Senna was often sitting in the best car, when he won his three world championships he was in a McLaren which was the best car of it day. Schuimachers first two championships were in a Beneton which was by far and away not even close to being the best car, Beneton had only won 5 races before Schumacher joined the team and a single race after he left, prior to Schumacher arrival the Ferrari was a dog, without Schumachers input Ferrari wouldn't have been able to build the car they built for him.

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 20):
And if you ask any other driver in F1 today who the greatest was, and that includes Schumacher, Hamilton, Vettel and Button, they all say Senna.

I would imagine that if Schumacher wasn't racing today most current drivers would probably say Schumacher, I'm sure Schumacher also knows he was better. History proves that Schumacher is a better driver than Senna. Prior to the Senna and Schumacher era, Jim Clark was widely regarded as the greatest driver that ever got behind the wheel of a car, he would race and win in everything, nobody else today comes close to racing in anywhere near the variety of formula Clark did, with the success that he had.
 
exFATboy
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:24 pm

Quoting EDICHC (Reply 13):
The IOC describes them as Ice Hockey and Hockey respectively.

There was supposed to be a   at the end of that, it's a value judgment. In which it is, of course, truth.  

And the IOC is run by a bunch of corrupt old bastards, so I don't care what they say.  

In the US, Canada, and much of Europe (Russia, Czech Rep., most of Scandinavia, etc.), if you say "hockey", it means the game on ice. And while Americans and Canadians play field hockey, lacrosse is the more popular of the "hockey substitute for people who can't skate" sports.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:47 pm

Quoting racko (Reply 4):

The vast majority of the world probably has never even heard the name "Sachin Tendulkar".
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 5):

Close to 25% if not more of the world would know who Sachin is.
Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 10):
a lot of the world doesn't know who Sachin Tendulkar is.
Quoting sw733 (Reply 23):

And for the other 195 countries in the world?

Lets see start asking people in the world & 1.21 billion + would know......thats quite a lot  
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
sw733
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:50 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 29):
1.21 billion

1.21 gigawatts?
 
Kiwirob
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:24 pm

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 24):
Bjørn Dæhlie
Quoting Mortyman (Reply 24):
Kjetil André Aamodt
Quoting Mortyman (Reply 24):
Andreas Thorkildsen
Quoting Mortyman (Reply 24):
Marit Bjørgen

Bjørgens success is somewhat tainted due to her being allowed to use asthma medication which is significanlty strong that allowed by the WADA regulations.

All fine athletes, some are the best of the best, but all stars in minor sports which have a pretty limited international following, hence the reason why none of them have major international endorsements.
 
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GrahamHill
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:07 pm

Quoting vishaljo (Thread starter):
Sachin Tendulkar

Who??

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 2):
He doesn't hold a candle to Ayrton Senna, IMO, even if Schumi had more wins.

I'd rather pick Senna than Schumi, indeed. Senna was spectacular to watch. He was driving with emotions.

Schumi was great too, but too boring to watch for my liking. Maybe all the modern technology did not help either...

Quoting racko (Reply 4):
Pelé

But he's never played in Europe, never won a Champions League.

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 10):
Lionel Messi

Not yet, he must win a major title with Argentina. But it's true that what he has achieved with Barcelona at just 24 is impressive.

Quoting exFATboy (Reply 12):
That all said, of course Wayne Gretzky is the greatest team athlete of all time

Who? 

Only joking. What I want to say is that Gretzky is known to hockey fans only. And hockey is certainly not popular everywhere in the world. A good pick would be an athlete that was so excellent and so famous in what he/she was doing that even people who don't know about the sport know him/her. Some athletes like Michael Jordan or Diego Maradona come to mind. There are more of course.

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 21):
Johan Cruyff

Never won a major title with the Netherlands, unfortunately. But I agree he was a joy to watch. And most importantly, he was the brain of a team that has invented a new football style. Definitely in the Top 10's greatest football players in history.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 29):
Lets see start asking people in the world & 1.21 billion + would know......thats quite a lot

That's quite a lot in ONE country indeed  

I guess nobody will agree on the world's greatest sportsman because there is no sport that is completely universal (not even football). I guess it would be better to pick the world's greatest athlete in each discipline.
"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
 
sw733
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:22 pm

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 32):
But he's never played in Europe, never won a Champions League.

So one cannot be the best footballer without having played in Europe, even when 30% of the FIFA Top 10 world rankings are South American countries?

That's like saying a golfer cannot be #1 unless he is Scottish, or the #1 Cricketer unless he is English, or the #1 eater unless he is American.
 
baroque
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:26 pm

Quoting sw733 (Reply 33):

That's like saying a golfer cannot be #1 unless he is Scottish, or the #1 Cricketer unless he is English, or the #1 eater unless he is American.

One of those is true.   
 
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GrahamHill
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:40 pm

Quoting sw733 (Reply 33):
So one cannot be the best footballer without having played in Europe, even when 30% of the FIFA Top 10 world rankings are South American countries?

Club football is the best in Europe. Good teams like Santos, Indepediente, River Plate (well, not anymore), Boca and all cannot compete with Manchester United, Real Madrid, FC Barcelona or Inter Milan. The level is a lot higher than in South America. Otherwise all the big stars would play in Argentina or Brazil. But no, they all come to Europe.

And you're mixing UEFA and FIFA. I'm obviously talking about club teams, no national teams. On the national teams I agree, the Brazil of Pelé was probably one of the greatest in history. BUT, as a football player, I do think that winning a European club trophy is a must-have on your CV. And Pelé has none.

I'm not putting his qualities in question. He was a fantastic football player. But to me he is missing that part in his career. I really would have liked to see how Pelé would have played in Europe.

Quoting sw733 (Reply 33):
That's like saying a golfer cannot be #1 unless he is Scottish, or the #1 Cricketer unless he is English, or the #1 eater unless he is American.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that to deserve credits in your sport, you must play in the highest level possible. And that obliges you to play in the most competitive championships in the world. Anyone can be #1 in golf, but do you think he would be able to achieve it by playing in Asia or South America?
"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
 
racko
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:22 pm

It was a different time back when Pelé was around. Nowadays, I would agree. No Champions League title, not one of the greatest.

If Messi keeps his pace until his 30s, there's no doubt he is going to be one of the greatest ever.

While we're on footballers, I feel Beckenbauer deserves to be mentioned.

As player:

- European Champion
- World Champion

- 5x German Champion as player with 2 different clubs
- 4x German Cup Champion
- 3x European Club Champion (Champions League predecessor)
- European Cup Winners Champion
- World Club Champion
and of course the prestigious American Championship (3x)  

As coach:

- World Champion
- German Champion
- French Champion
- UEFA-Cup Champion

Long-time president of Bayern, one of the most succesful clubs in the world
Head of the organization committee of the World Cup 2006, usually cited as the greatest ever.
Hooked up during Bayern Christmas party and got away without any negative press

A CV doesn't get much more impressive.

[Edited 2011-08-29 11:23:42]
 
Confuscius
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:19 pm

Dick Button



[Edited 2011-08-29 12:52:10]
Ain't I a stinker?
 
Superfly
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:36 pm

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 37):
Dick Button

                    

Bring back the Concorde
 
fruitbat
Posts: 361
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 9:34 am

RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:14 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 17):
Quoting fruitbat (Reply 11):Lance Armstrong (cancer, then conquer the T de F - you know the story)
But he only rode in the Tour d France, Eddy Merckx was a far better rider with multiple wins in all the classic tours.

Yeah, fair point, you just exposed my knowledge of cycling  
Quoting sw733 (Reply 23):
Quoting fruitbat (Reply 11):Phil "The Power" Taylor (umpteen times World Darts Champion)
I love a good game of darts, but I have trouble classifying it as a sport if I can do it in a bar with a Guinness in my hand

And yes, I know...take a joke folks.

Well, I could argue that it's more of a sport than F1.....at least Phil's arm is not simply an extended advertisment for a car or energy drinks company.... 

** please note the use of the word "could" in the sentence above....
** and I do quite enjoy watching F1.....
** but I know I'm still gonna get a kicking...........  
Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel.
 
fruitbat
Posts: 361
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 9:34 am

RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:37 pm

Anyway, what about Rugby Union?

Serge Blanco
Dan Carter
Jonah Lomu
David Campese
Gareth Edwards
Brian O'Driscoll
Martin Johnson

Or (back to the pub again), Snooker?

Steve Davies (led the way in snooker's heyday in the early - mid 80's)
Stephen Hendry (did the impossible by dominating more than Davies, seemingly invincible in the 90's/early 00's)
Joe Davis (dominated the game in the 30's)

Anyway, back to Cricket, what about:

Sir Don Bradman
Brian Lara
Viv Richards
Michael Holding
Malcolm Marshall
Joel Garner
Sir Gary Sobers

Or,

Strauss, Cook, Trott, Pieterson, Bell, Morgan, Prior, Bresnan, Broad, Swann, Anderson.

Oh, sorry, that's currently the worlds greatest sports TEAM.

             
Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel.
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:22 am

Quoting fruitbat (Reply 40):
Strauss, Cook, Trott, Pieterson, Bell, Morgan, Prior, Bresnan, Broad, Swann, Anderson.

Oh, sorry, that's currently the worlds greatest sports TEAM.

Hang on, is there not an unwritten ban in this thread about being correct?
 
Derico
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:57 am

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 35):
I'm not putting his qualities in question. He was a fantastic football player. But to me he is missing that part in his career. I really would have liked to see how Pelé would have played in Europe.

Wait, and far be it for me to defend Pele (!), but back then the differences between European clubs and South American clubs was negligible. So you can't extrapolate what today is considered the best club championship in the world by a long shot, and 50 years ago.

Though btw, European club power is way overhyped. It's only Barza (which is way above any other), and then four to eight other teams, the rest are inconsequential and no better than the South American good clubs. European club football has become incredibly boring in just the last 10 years, no surprises, no dark horses, it's always the same old story. It's not a competitive sphere overall even though it has the best players and level of play. I mean we are starting to see of late 6-0 and 8-2 scores, or something like that, across Europe. The 95% of european clubs have not a prayer whatsoever these days...

What I would say about Pele is that the era he played in the World Cup was radically different. Look at videos, the guy wasn't even touched half the time. And he did have players like Socrates, Garrincha, all-stars by themselves by his side.

Maradona led a bunch of corpses to a title in 86. Besides him, is there any player that would even make it in Argentina's team today (which has far better players, but is a far worse team). Burruchaga?? Brown?? Olarticochea? hahahaha. And he did the same with Napoli. So what many argue about Maradona is that he took two teams singlehandedly (a Club and a Nationalmannschaft), that you can prove that without him being there would have done absolutely nothing, to the top of the world.

Now, as for the greatest sportsman, I would Luciana Aymar. Best ever at her sport and doesn't even let on of it.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
corocks
Posts: 1128
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:36 am

To me the greatest sportsman would have to be a multi-sport person. Someone who excelled at not just one thing but was pretty awesome all around:

Jim Thorpe
Bo Jackson
Jesse Owens
Carl Lewis
Jim Brown

I am sure there are others.......

I think the womans argument is probaby easier:

Babe Didrickson
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:43 am

Quoting corocks (Reply 43):
Carl Lewis

Ever see his music videos?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jamJ4-C_TME
Bring back the Concorde
 
pacificjourney
Posts: 2659
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:10 am

Just so we're clear, driving of any kind is not a sport and the people who do it aren't athletes.

I know it requires effort but so does scratching me bollocks while watching TV if I do it for long enough and that doesn't make me an athlete either.

If (and it's a massive if) we were to include motor sports of some kind surely the greater 'athletes' would be on motorbikes or rally driving rather than F1.
" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 13097
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:13 am

Quoting pacificjourney (Reply 45):
If (and it's a massive if) we were to include motor sports of some kind surely the greater 'athletes' would be on motorbikes or rally driving rather than F1.

We are very lucky that during our lives the greatest rally driver of all time Seb Loeb and the greatest motorcycle racer of all Time Dr Rossi have been performing in front of us, not to mention Schumacher the greatest F1 driver of all time.

You can't discount drivers as sportsmen, I'd beet on it that the average F1/IRL driver is probably as fit and strong if not fitter and stronger than most football players.
 
Springbok747
Posts: 3993
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:30 am

Ayrton Senna..no question about it. Even Schumi acknowledged that he (Senna) was the greatest F1 driver ever.

http://f1greatestdrivers.autosport.com/?driver=1
אני תומך בישראל
 
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GrahamHill
Posts: 3017
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RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:31 pm

Quoting Derico (Reply 42):

I did not mean to turn this into a European vs South American football, as it is not the subject of this thread. But if you want to talk about it, we can open a new one.

Quoting pacificjourney (Reply 45):
Just so we're clear, driving of any kind is not a sport and the people who do it aren't athletes.

I know it requires effort but so does scratching me bollocks while watching TV if I do it for long enough and that doesn't make me an athlete either.

If (and it's a massive if) we were to include motor sports of some kind surely the greater 'athletes' would be on motorbikes or rally driving rather than F1.

  

I'm appalled by this ignorant message. Have you ever been doing motorsport in your life? Have you ever driven the smallest of all, which is go-kart? How do you feel after a 20-minute session? Bet you can't feel your arms anymore and your body aches for the next 3 days.

How do you think drivers can handle G-Force in acceleration, braking and turning?

Racing drivers can all perform triathlons or marathons. Jenson Button did 1.5km swim, 40km bike, 10km run in 2 hours and 7 minutes:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mot...Triathlon-as-F1-takes-a-break.html

Nico Rosberg did one in 2 hours and 14 minutes:

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2010/8/11138.html

Heiki Kovalainen did a marathon in 3 hours and 36 minutes:

http://www.heikkikovalainen.net/eng/news/?id=90

Barrichello did his marathon last year finishing 1,671st place out of 17,143 runners. He did it again this year, improving to 1,208th position, which is not bad for someone practicing a sport equal to "scratching [one's] bollocks while watching TV":

http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/56644.html

Quote:
It might seem a long way away from the corners of Spa or Silverstone, but there is more overlap than is immediately apparent. One of the best ways for a driver to prepare for the demands of a Grand Prix is through intensive cardio-vascular training such as distance running and swimming and a marathon runner and F1 driver require many of the same skills.

Forces generated by cornering in an F1 car regularly reach 4G - four times the force of gravity - with some of the most extreme corners reaching 5.5G. In an accident the forces can be many times higher: Robert Kubica faced peak forces of 75G during his crash at the 2008 Canadian Grand Prix. This is one of the main reasons that drivers need to be supremely fit and strong.

While a normal person has a resting heart rate of around 60 beats per minute, rising to around 150 during a run on the treadmill, top racing drivers typically have a resting rate of 40 beats per minute, rising to more than 200 during a Grand Prix. This is approximately the same rate experienced by a marathon runner crossing the finish line. In addition to this, through their strict training regimes drivers end up with a similar physique to long distance runners and both sets of athletes maintain a body fat ratio of around just 7%, compared to about 21% for the average man.

Then there's also the heat to consider. At the hottest races, such as Malaysia, temperatures in the cockpit can reach almost 60 degrees Celsius with humidity of as much as 80%. This puts a vast strain on the drivers and they can sweat off as much as 3.5kg of their body weight during a race. It's for this reason that drivers also drink large amounts of liquid on the grid, even if they don't feel thirsty. Even a slight loss of body fluid can cause lapses in concentration, which are potentially fatal at 200mph, so it's vital that drivers get used to these extreme conditions during training. The level of endurance needed to complete a Grand Prix has been compared to that required to run a marathon, so it's no surprise that drivers such as Barrichello turn to running for practice.

Fitness is therefore vital for mental as well as physical reasons. According to Nick Harris, who worked with Barrichello at the Stewart team and now runs Human Performance Engineering which is a partner of Team Lotus, "the more conditioned a driver is, the longer he can maintain his ability. They're amazingly gifted, but there is more to it. You can be the best footballer in the world, but if you aren't fit enough, in the last 20 minutes of the match you will start to make lots of mistakes. You can be an amazing driver, but over 60 laps if you can't maintain that ability you won't do yourself or the team justice. When a driver is conditioned he can maintain his ability for longer. If a driver feels tired in the car he will begin to think of negative things and a lapse of concentration can occur."


   

[Edited 2011-08-30 10:32:39]
"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 13097
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: World's Greatest Sportsman

Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:40 pm

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 47):
Even Schumi acknowledged that he (Senna) was the greatest F1 driver ever.

In the context of the movie it would have looked stupid if he'd said himself, or Jimmy Clark who is the greatest of them all.

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