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casinterest
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Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:31 pm

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...es-big-12-leaving-conference-sec/1


What is everyone's thoughts on this?

Will the SEC extend the offer?
If the SEC extends the offer, who else would they make an offer too? I just can't see the SEC bringing in 1 team for 13 total.


My guess is that the SEC will make the offer and will go after Virginia Tech for 14 teams. VT being a logica 2nd choice as it extends the TV market in Va, and it brings in a school with a big fan base.
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jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:07 pm

What a bunch of bitches! This is all some moronic pissing match with Texas. Guess what T A&M? You're not Texas. You've never been Texas. You never will be Texas. You're the red-headed step-child that likes to mess with Texas when they can, and often do a good job of it. But this whole ploy is nothing more than moronic ego trying to hurt Texas/B12 and bitterness about stuff like the "Longhorn Network".

They want to be idiots with no semblance of self-actualization, fine. But I worry this will disrupt the rest of the college football world by giving us a conference over 12 teams, which I sure as hell don't want.
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airtran737
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:21 pm

There was talk of Arkansas bolting the SEC for the Big 12. If that happened and they add SMU plus another school (Air Force) then they will be back to 12 and powerful again.
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jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:27 pm

Oh, I hope that could work out as a kind of trade. If i were Arkansas, i'd do that in a heartbeat. Let TA&M have their fun with the SEC west...
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airtran737
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:54 pm

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 3):
Let TA&M have their fun with the SEC west...

Auburn, LSU and Bama are going to eat them alive. Texas A&M will wish they stayed where they were.
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:58 pm

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 1):
What a bunch of bitches! This is all some moronic pissing match with Texas. Guess what T A&M? You're not Texas. You've never been Texas. You never will be Texas. You're the red-headed step-child that likes to mess with Texas when they can, and often do a good job of it. But this whole ploy is nothing more than moronic ego trying to hurt Texas/B12 and bitterness about stuff like the "Longhorn Network".

Here's the perspective of an Aggie.

1. The Big XII is a dying conference. I'm sorry to say, but UT has poisoned the well by negotiating in bad faith with every other school in the conference. Texas cares about Texas, not the health of the conference or the game. It's no wonder Colorado and Nebraska already bailed. It's better for Texas A&M to leave now our own accord than to wait for a Cherynoble-like meltdown of the conference.

2. Aggies fans want to play against the SEC. I saw the first SECede t-shirt at least 3 years ago and it has continuously become a more popular opinion. We are far more interested in playing SEC teams than Kansas State, Iowa State, Baylor, etc. Rule number 1 of sales - give the customer what they want.

3. The Longhorn network has nothing do with my support of moving to the SEC. I ultimately expect the Longhorn network to flop. The only content that would provide revenue is college football. Just about everything else would be on par with community access programming. IMO that lowers the "Longhorn brand" more than anything.
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:59 pm

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 2):
There was talk of Arkansas bolting the SEC for the Big 12. If that happened and they add SMU plus another school (Air Force) then they will be back to 12 and powerful again.

SMU + Air Force = power conference??

Sorry but ....      
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jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:16 pm

Thanks for the perspective, mine is probably pretty simplistically harsh, but I just fear the domino effect this might put in motion. I really don't like the idea of super-conferences with over 12 teams.

I also think that the desire to play SEC opponents might come at expense of any kind of consistent winnings seasons or bowl games.
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airtran737
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:56 pm

Quoting dfwrevolution (Reply 6):
SMU Air Force = power conference??

Sorry but ....

Powerful in the fact that with 12 teams the can split into two even divisions, and have a conference championship game to determine who is going to get the BCS berth. The Big 12 is not in the situation that the Big 10 was in, where after week 12 you sit around and wait for the other conferences to play their championship games. This is a crucial week, and can cost members of the Big 12 a lot in the rankings. Of course the addition of SMU and Air Force won't make the Big 12 powerful again, but with the addition of Arkansas they can make sure they are sending a legitimate team to the BCS and not have to rely on the polls to boost them and pray for miracles during week 13
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jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:23 pm

It's too bad TCU jumped to the Big East so quickly. They could have hung around with Boise+company now in the MWC and waited for this opportunity. That would have been cool. Oh well.

I also understand much of this hostility comes from Texas kind of holding the conference hostage with their Big Ten flirtation. I'm sure there are reasons to be bitter with them, I just don't see this move as being a positive thing for A&M any way you slice it. Maybe in basketball...
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sccutler
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:15 am

This will not end well for TAMU, but it is something that they have to experience themselves.

As a committed Texas fan, I believe the departure of the Ags hurts UT, but it hurts A&M vastly more; they do not know what they have signed themselves up for.
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canoecarrier
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:18 am

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 2):
There was talk of Arkansas bolting the SEC for the Big 12.

I'd be surprised if Arkansas jumped to a dying conference like the Big 12 (9).

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 2):
If that happened and they add SMU plus another school (Air Force) then they will be back to 12 and powerful again.

Hey, I'm about as big a Mizzou fan as there is, active in the alumni association, etc. but none of us are interested in AF, SMU yes. But, now the problem is we let 4 other SWC teams in a very solid Big 8 conference. NU got weak, OU got better, but overall we had to bring in a 4 ex SWC teams and UT now runs the conference money wise.

A&M can leave, that's fine. UT played it's cards right and now pretty much own the revenue from TV coverage of the games. Every addition to this dying conference just looks like a band aid. It should just be reformed as 2 new smaller conferences. The one Mizzou's in can take Kansas.

Quoting dfwrevolution (Reply 5):
The Big XII is a dying conference.

yep.

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 9):

I also understand much of this hostility comes from Texas kind of holding the conference hostage with their Big Ten flirtation.

UT did what they had the power to do. I'm not mad at them for that, but the conference may dissolve because of it.
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NW747400
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:23 am

As an Arkansas fan I can tell you that there is absolutely no desire among the fan base to bolt from the SEC. As far as I can tell there is no desire to bolt from the SEC among the administration either. That decision would be hugely unpopular as many Arkansas fans (myself included) see the decision to bolt from the southwestern conference and join the SEC as one of the best, if not the best, decision the Arkansas athletic department has ever made. We belong to the best division of the best conference in college football. We got to a BCS bowl for the first time last year and we have a coach that the fan base believes in and is united behind. The vast majority of Arkansas fans (myself included) think that the football program has not been in this good of a position for years. With our current coaching staff and conference alignment, most Arkansas fans believe our best football days are ahead of us and would not wish to change anything.
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Airport
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:45 am

The Big 12 won't die as long as it has Texas and Oklahoma. The Big 12 has stated its intent to aggresively expand if they lose Texas A&M, and I highly, highly doubt any BCS member would want to bolt for the Big 12. There's not really any reason to. Pittsburgh and Louisville are fine in the Big East, Notre Dame and BYU don't seem to want to break from independence. BYU is very happy with the arrangement of having the rest of their sports in the WCC while their football is independent, and I think they fear leaving the WCC for the Big 12, only for it to break up and no place to put their other sports.

What's pulling the conference apart is the Longhorn Network. There are, however, a multitude of non-AQ schools who would be more than happy to join the Big 12 just for being in the BCS club, and who wouldn't complain about whatever Texas wants to do with its network. I think that's where the future of the Big 12 lies. That, or dissolution.
 
BMI727
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:00 am

This might have an interesting implication when viewed in combination with the Miami "scandal." People have to remember that the NCAA works for the schools, and not the other way around. The three superconferences (SEC, Big Ten, Pac-10) could leave the NCAA and form their own league with the 36 teams. They could throw the rules wide open and essentially gain a monopoly on top recruits, which to some degree they already have, and make a go of it on their own.

This sort of arrangement would be a bit awkward for basketball, but for football I can see why the schools would want to do that. Definitely interesting to think about anyway.
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Airport
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:26 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 14):
The three superconferences (SEC, Big Ten, Pac-10) could leave the NCAA and form their own league with the 36 teams. They could throw the rules wide open and essentially gain a monopoly on top recruits, which to some degree they already have, and make a go of it on their own.

I agree the NCAA needs major overhaul, but to your suggestion, I say yuck.

One of the things I love about College Football is the huge variety of teams, and the passionate culture surrounding each of them. To anyone who'd want to see tradition thrown completely out the window, and the further commercialization of the sport, I'd say there are plenty of professional leagues they can watch. I don't have a problem with the 128 teams being top heavy, but in order for the sport to be truly fair (which it isn't at the moment), there needs to be proper reward for high performance on the field, and equal opportunity for advancement to those schools who achieve it. Until then, the sport is merely an illusion.

I understand College Football isn't and will never perfect, but that doesn't mean it has to move in the complete opposite direction toward a model where only a few schools have the money to be a legit national title contender every year. If you want that, go watch the NFL.
 
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:29 am

All I can say is.... UT, OU, Tech, OSU... welcome to the Pac 16!

(You know that this is the direction we're all headed).

Quoting casinterest (Thread starter):
My guess is that the SEC will make the offer and will go after Virginia Tech for 14 teams. VT being a logica 2nd choice as it extends the TV market in Va, and it brings in a school with a big fan base.

Virginia Tech basically came out today and said "no way in hell" are we going to the SEC.

If I was going to place bets on which school would be #14 I'd say NC State. New state, new market for the SEC, plus from what I've read NC State wants to jump out of UNC's and Duke's shadows (sounds familiar?).
 
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:42 am

As a UT alum if a&m wants to leave, let them. A short list of schools that are being considered are SMU, TCU, Airforce, BYU, Notre Dame, Houston, Pitt, Louisville, Iowa, and Arkansas.

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 1):

Brilliant!   

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 2):

I agree.   
 
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:08 am

Quoting Airport (Reply 15):
and the passionate culture surrounding each of them.

You mean screaming, mouth-breathing cretins. College football superfans are as a group a backwards bunch of tribalistic rednecks.

Quoting Airport (Reply 15):
To anyone who'd want to see tradition thrown completely out the window, and the further commercialization of the sport,

Further commercialized!? What part of the sport isn't already commercialized? The schools, conferences, networks, coaches, and players (outside the rules) are already making tons of money. It's a business, and anyone who pretends that it isn't is living in a fantasy world. And here's the kicker: people still watch. Can anyone seriously tell me that they enjoy a football game less because the quarterback drives a nice car? Does it really matter who pays for the strippers?

It is rather silly that a faction of people insist on believing in a fantasy college sports world that hasn't existed for a long time. And furthermore, none of that fantasy has material effect on the product.

Quoting Airport (Reply 15):
but that doesn't mean it has to move in the complete opposite direction toward a model where only a few schools have the money to be a legit national title contender every year.

You have to be kidding me. You cannot seriously believe that the NCAA is a model where every team has a legit chance to win and that there isn't already a clear line between haves and have-nots in college football. Do you think those huge stadiums and state of the art workout facilities build themselves?

Quoting Airport (Reply 15):
If you want that, go watch the NFL.

The NFL is actually the exact opposite. Every year there are some surprise teams, both good and bad. A major market team hasn't won a Super Bowl since 2008, and of the last six teams to compete in the Super Bowl, all except for one (Arizona, and that is questionable) have been small market teams.
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:25 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 18):
You mean screaming, mouth-breathing cretins. College football superfans are as a group a backwards bunch of tribalistic rednecks.

Get a clue, they're also the ones filling the 100,000 seat stadiums, and buying the outrageous amounts of merchandise. They might be rednecks to you, but they're what is keeping the sport alive and making money.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 18):
Further commercialized!? What part of the sport isn't already commercialized? The schools, conferences, networks, coaches, and players (outside the rules) are already making tons of money. It's a business, and anyone who pretends that it isn't is living in a fantasy world. And here's the kicker: people still watch. Can anyone seriously tell me that they enjoy a football game less because the quarterback drives a nice car? Does it really matter who pays for the strippers?

It is rather silly that a faction of people insist on believing in a fantasy college sports world that hasn't existed for a long time. And furthermore, none of that fantasy has material effect on the product.


I have no problem with colleges, coaches, networks making money. I have no problem with players for that matter making money either. But it shouldn't be a complete free-for-all where the top 10 richest institutions can simply win championships by outspending everyone else. That completely defeats the idea of a sport, where at least some amount of competitive balance can be maintained across the board. Give that up and what do you have? Ohio State/Texas vs. USC/Alabama every year. Wow, that's fun... not.

Instead.........

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 18):
You have to be kidding me. You cannot seriously believe that the NCAA is a model where every team has a legit chance to win and that there isn't already a clear line between haves and have-nots in college football. Do you think those huge stadiums and state of the art workout facilities build themselves?

And you didn't read my post. I said the NCAA as it currently is, is not a fair model. The rulebook needs to be cleaned up, and the NCAA needs to come down hard on schools that let boosters run their program, and most importantly, the bowl system needs to be revamped so that schools who compete in them actually get a financial reward, which they don't at the moment -- many schools lose money going to bowl games -- so that all schools who field a good football team will have money to reward players who brought them there.

The convoluted mess that's the biggest root of the problem is that this is not the way College Football is working at the moment, so boosters take things into their own hands, and athletic directors are letting them do it, because the system is set up so that success is not financially rewarded. Solve the issue where you can financially reward performance, and you've solved many of the problems that plague the sport.

The model you propose would instead just let it be a spending free-for-all. The model you propose would end up virtually monopolizing the championships to a select group of 10-15 teams, and would prevent the rest of the schools from ever being able to compete. I'm not just talking about schools like Boise State and TCU, I'm talking about virtually every team that's not Texas, Ohio State, Alabama, Notre Dame, etc. because the parity in the amount of money the Top 15 make versus the bottom 105 is outrageously huge. The NCAA model is not currently like that. Most schools like Boise State, Oregon State, TCU, Utah, etc. who don't have financially wealthy programs but do have great coaches can at least stay fairly competitive in recruiting, and that can translate into winning teams that can make it to BCS bowls.

Plus, you're completely ignoring the fact that limiting the top division to 36 teams puts hundreds of thousands of merchandise-purchase, TV-watching, stadium-filling fans of the other 120+ institutions completely out of the picture. That would be leaving upwards of a billion-dollars off the table from your proposed model.

[Edited 2011-09-01 06:27:30]

[Edited 2011-09-01 06:28:30]

[Edited 2011-09-01 06:30:06]
 
BMI727
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:30 pm

Quoting Airport (Reply 19):
But it shouldn't be a complete free-for-all where the top 10 richest institutions can simply win championships by outspending everyone else.

Except that for the most part, it already is. How many schools do you see in the rankings year after year? Sure, once in a while somebody gets caught, a coach gets fired, and they and the rest of the college football world moves on just as they did before.

Quoting Airport (Reply 19):
The model you propose would end up virtually monopolizing the championships to a select group of 10-15 teams, and would prevent the rest of the schools from ever being able to compete.

Why would those 10-15 teams not want that? Why should they care about making it fair for the little guys (the unimpressive win/embarrassing loss teams) anyway? They are rich and powerful with huge fanbases. They could leave and go play their own game and people would come with them. Not only their own fans, but casual fans like myself and gamblers as well. Besides, I would think that just about anyone could name 10-15 teams before the season with pretty good confidence that the champion is in that group.
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casinterest
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Fri Sep 02, 2011 6:14 pm

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 2):
There was talk of Arkansas bolting the SEC for the Big 12. If that happened and they add SMU plus another school (Air Force) then they will be back to 12 and powerful again.

I can't see Arkansas bolting to the Big 12, but then again, I am still amazeed the Aggies want out of the Big 10(12).

Air force I can't see joining the Big 12, SMU I could.

Quoting travelin man (Reply 16):
Virginia Tech basically came out today and said "no way in hell" are we going to the SEC.

If I was going to place bets on which school would be #14 I'd say NC State. New state, new market for the SEC, plus from what I've read NC State wants to jump out of UNC's and Duke's shadows (sounds familiar?).

Yeah VT might not go . I just can't see State leaving the ACC. Too much Basketball history.



I am wondering if maybe the SEC pulls a big one and goes after Texas as part of the deal.

Or perhaps goes in and grabs a team from the Big East or Conf USA.
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RGElectra80
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:44 am

Football-wise, A&M will find itself in a similar position in the SEC West than it does in the Big 12 South. A&M will occasionally hang with their division's perennial favorites (Oklahoma, Texas/Alabama, LSU) but realistically, will regularly produce 7 to 9-win seasons.
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:02 am

Quoting casinterest (Reply 21):
I am wondering if maybe the SEC pulls a big one and goes after Texas as part of the deal.

In order to to that, Texas would have to give up it's Longhorn Network. In fact they would have to get rid of the Longhorn network to join the Pac-12 or Big Ten also.
 
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:03 am

I always find it a little amusing that some consider the SEC to be like some sort of book club that accepts every little old lady interested in discussing the latest Nora Roberts best-seller. Not even a month ago, President Machen, speaking on behalf of the Conference as the chair of the SEC presidents and chancellors, said that they decided that they were good with the 12 teams in the SEC today. (http://sportributor.com/news/3268-08142011-sec-presidents-vote-happy-with-12-school-alignment.html) It seems that whether A&M/VT/FSU/whoever else is interested or not is moot, then, so let's give these rumors a rest.
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wukka
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:18 am

Quoting dfwrevolution (Reply 6):
SMU + Air Force = power conference??

Yeah. I'm with you on that one, dfw.

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 7):
but I just fear the domino effect this might put in motion.

It's unfortunate that this might lead to all sorts of conference jumping between some of the major players of the sport. The bigger question is should all of this be allowed? Unfortunately it appears that all of this is motivated by profit. Both by the schools and the NCAA.

Quoting sccutler (Reply 10):
I believe the departure of the Ags hurts UT, but it hurts A&M vastly more

I wouldn't be so sure of that. Think long-term here. If A&M would somehow dominate their conference, the defection is negated, and UT goes without one of their biggest draw / rivalries in play. This could be touchy.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 14):
People have to remember that the NCAA works for the schools, and not the other way around.

In theory, but definitely not in practice. Schools live up to the the standards of the NCAA. They make the rules, and penalize those that don't adhere to them. They are the "police" of the system, and if you don't placate them, they will burn you. So who screws who? Ask USC. I'm sure there was an unshuffled deck in those cards, long overlooked by the NCAA, before they caught on fire and had to let them burn. You can blame the schools and the conferences, but the NCAA is the one who shows up late after the violations have already been known to the general public. Who watches the watchers?
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canoecarrier
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Sat Sep 03, 2011 2:35 pm

ESPN has been reporting this morning that OU's shopping conferences now too. I doubt the Big 12 will survive after the end of this football season.
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BMI727
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Sat Sep 03, 2011 6:57 pm

Quoting wukka (Reply 25):
In theory, but definitely not in practice.

So why would big name schools continue to want to deal with it when they could get together and leave?
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fxramper
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Sun Sep 04, 2011 12:47 am

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 26):
ESPN has been reporting this morning that OU's shopping conferences now too. I doubt the Big 12 will survive after the end of this football season.

  

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/st...ghorns-being-discussed-source-says
 
wukka
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:32 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 27):
So why would big name schools continue to want to deal with it when they could get together and leave?

Ummm... Numbers. The NCAA signed with these schools (or did the schools sign with the NCAA? Forced decision, IMO).

Let the power names leave. Who are they going to play? The NCAA **OWNS** collegiate athletics. Not the other way around.
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RGElectra80
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Sun Sep 04, 2011 3:24 pm

Quoting wukka (Reply 29):
Let the power names leave. Who are they going to play? The NCAA **OWNS** collegiate athletics. Not the other way around.

They don't own collegiate athletics; they have a monopoly (there's a difference).

NAIA is also another collegiate athletics organization that oversees smaller institutions. NAIA was actually bigger than the NCAA until the mid-1900s, IIRC.

If these conferences decide they've had enough of NCAA ticky-tacky rules and regulations, who's to say they won't decide to form their own collegiate athletics organization? In the end, it's the conferences holding the key: they're the ones with the TV contracts, not the NCAA.
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:28 pm

Quoting RGElectra80 (Reply 30):
If these conferences decide they've had enough of NCAA ticky-tacky rules and regulations, who's to say they won't decide to form their own collegiate athletics organization? In the end, it's the conferences holding the key: they're the ones with the TV contracts, not the NCAA.

The NCAA and ABC lost an antitrust lawsuit in 1984 over the monopoly college football broadcast contracts held by the NCAA.
 
BMI727
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:03 pm

Quoting wukka (Reply 29):
Who are they going to play?

Each other. Marquee matchups each week with no more Appalachain States or the embarrassment of getting your ass kicked by South Florida. Get the biggest names with the most fans and the best talent. Change the rules a bit to suit the schools. The players want the money and exposure so they'll come along as will the coaches. The TV people will too since fans will want to see the top schools and players.

Pro leagues all do fine with ~30 teams, so I don't see why the top 30-40 colleges in the country couldn't leave and set up their own league that is more advantageous to them. The more I think about the idea, the more it seems to make sense.
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:56 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 32):
Pro leagues all do fine with ~30 teams, so I don't see why the top 30-40 colleges in the country couldn't leave and set up their own league that is more advantageous to them. The more I think about the idea, the more it seems to make sense.

Not going to happen, and for good reason. College Football is exploding in popularity, merchandise sales, TV ratings and ticket sales. People don't watch College Football because of the quality of the football play, they watch it because the huge variety of teams and cultures, the scrappiness, the upsets, the pagaentry, the tradition, the rivalries and the amateurism.... Oh, and you're never going to have a lockout. Some care more about some areas than others, but those are top reasons people watch. And because of the structure of the post seasons, nearly every one of the over 60 games played on the weekend can in some way influence their team, so there's a lot more emotional investment in the entire sport. Take the TCU-Baylor game, or the Utah State-Auburn game over the weekend, just two games this weekend were far, far better than anything I've ever seen in pro sports. You'd never find any of that in the NFL, or in the model you suggest. If all of these factors were such burdens on the sport like you think they are, then why do think numerous surveys show that College Football is now the second most popular sport in the United States? Why do you think multi-billion dollar TV deals are being signed for college athletics?

It's something that people who've grown up on pro sports will have a tough time understanding. Fragmenting CFB to merely ~30 teams would defeat the very reason for its explosion in popularity over the last decade, which is exactly why it's not going to happen like you think. You say you're a casual fan and that's perfectly fine, but I suggest you read more on the College game and how it's vastly different than the pro game.

[Edited 2011-09-04 14:57:53]
 
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:17 pm

For the past few days, word has been that Texas was pressuring Oklahoma to be the one to take the lead in bolting to the Pac-12, so that Texas can save face and be seen as grudgingly coming.

Now, ESPN is confirming that OU is taking that lead.

Odds are that this time next year, OU, Texas, Texas Tech and Oklahoma State will be part of a new Pac-16 conference.
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:16 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 34):

Odds are that this time next year, OU, Texas, Texas Tech and Oklahoma State will be part of a new Pac-16 conference.

Great. What happens to the rest of the then-defunct Big 12?
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:21 am

Quoting Airport (Reply 33):
People don't watch College Football because of the quality of the football play, they watch it because the huge variety of teams and cultures, the scrappiness, the upsets, the pagaentry, the tradition, the rivalries and the amateurism....

How quaint. Of course all that pagentry, scrappiness, etc. could be transferred. (By the way, "scrappy" is usually code for bad) And the only amateurs left are the cheerleaders and marching band. It's a business, and why that cannot be embraced and is treated like some dirty little secret is a mystery.

Quoting Airport (Reply 33):
Oh, and you're never going to have a lockout.

That's because the players are basically exploited.

Quoting Airport (Reply 33):
then why do think numerous surveys show that College Football is now the second most popular sport in the United States?

Ask a bookie.

Quoting Airport (Reply 33):
Why do you think multi-billion dollar TV deals are being signed for college athletics?

It's not the pageantry and tradition.

Quoting Airport (Reply 33):
You say you're a casual fan and that's perfectly fine,

I'm a casual fan because there are too many games that suck. Only the hillbillies needed to see Alabama take on Kentucky. Did anyone really need a 57-3 score to see that Stanford is better than San Jose State? But for LSU vs. Oregon I was there at my TV. Hell, I was even watching ND and South Florida because I knew the Irish were gonna get their asses kicked. (Is it really an upset if everyone calls it before it happens?) The top teams should take their game and set up their own league where every matchup is a marquee matchup.
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:31 am

Well...bye.

Quoting dfwrevolution (Reply 5):
I'm sorry to say, but UT has poisoned the well by negotiating in bad faith with every other school in the conference. Texas cares about Texas, not the health of the conference or the game. It's no wonder Colorado and Nebraska already bailed.

   What a complete load of bollocks. We proposed a Big XII network years ago. It got voted down 11-1. We offered your stupid asses a chance to go in on a network together. What did $Bill say? He doesn't think it's viable. Now we've got ourselves a $300 million dollar contract with ESPN, and you guys tuck and run. Last year, we were the ones that decided not to bolt for the Pac 16, opting instead to stay and try to make things work. The smaller schools in the conference gave up a good chunk of money to Texas, Oklahoma, and Texas A&M (who somehow thinks they are relevant enough to belong in the same conversation as those two) to make sure they were happy, and got their $20 million/year target met. You know what the only school to actually accept that money was? YOURS. Because your completely inept athletic department is BLEEDING money. Congrats on all the women's sports success, the big money makers they are. Lest we forget, if the conference folds, it's because YOU bolted. Not us.

You've been reading way too much Tex Ags.

Quoting wukka (Reply 25):
I wouldn't be so sure of that. Think long-term here. If A&M would somehow dominate their conference, the defection is negated, and UT goes without one of their biggest draw / rivalries in play. This could be touchy.

That sounds eerily similar to what Arkansas was crowing about when they joined the SEC in the mid 90s. 15 years later, they have won 0 SEC titles, and been terribly mediocre for almost all of it. A&M hasn't even had any success in the Big XII South, much less the Big XII. For most of the decade, they've been battling with Baylor not to be last. What in the hell makes anyone think they'll find any success in the best conference in college football? A&M has a chance* to be good this year, in a really down year for the Big XII. That doesn't make them relevant in the grand scheme of things, though. Next year, they lose all of their offensive talent, which is what is going to make them good this year.

All they're doing by bolting to the $EC is signing their own death warrant. Texas, whether they like it or not, is the flagship university in Texas, especially when it comes to football. We aren't going to struggle to recruit. A&M has to compete with OU (who's really competing more with Texas), Tech, Baylor and the rest. Now you're telling me A&M has given the powerhouses in the SEC West an in to Texas recruiting, and things are supposed to get better for them? Not likely.

A&M is not, contrary to what most people think, our main rival. Oklahoma is. The A&M rivalry is based on proximity. We don't need, and never have needed, A&M. This move is about A&M proving they don't need us, either. It's a bit of a tough sell, based on how much of their existence revolves around hating us, but whatever. I admit I'd miss the Thanksgiving Day (or T+1, in some recent years) game, but if I had a gun to my head and had to pick either A&M or OU to keep as is, I think >95% of Texas fans, myself included, would pick OU. It's simply one of the best rivalries in college sports, and in my opinion, the single greatest spectacle of the season in college football when it comes to the entire package. OSU-Michigan may be a greater rivalry, but the venue is still just a regular game. The World's Largest Outdoor Cocktail Party doesn't have the same "it" factor the Red River Rivalry does.

*I'll believe it when I see it. Perennial underachievers. If you want some comedy, go back and read some of the preseason predictions for years past on Tex Ags. Delusion the likes of which the planet has never seen resides on that board.

Quoting dfwrevolution (Reply 5):
IMO that lowers the "Longhorn brand" more than anything.

Having quite a few men's basketball games, and every home baseball game televised in HD is lowering the brand? Those sports both make a profit for the university. I think we're one of the only schools to turn a profit in baseball, which is no small feat considering how much money is put into it.

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 9):
I also understand much of this hostility comes from Texas kind of holding the conference hostage with their Big Ten flirtation.

I don't really recall anything concrete about Texas to the Big 10. Rumors, sure, but I think we were always destined for the Pac, if we were going anywhere. The Big 10 was never going to happen at the time, for a variety of reasons, not the least of which being they didn't want A&M, which we would've been compelled to bring along . Mizzou, on the other hand, really kind of started this entire mess with their courtship of the Big 10. Nebraska followed suit, and Colorado preempted a mass exodus to the Pac x by joining (partly because of fears Baylor might have expected to go along with Texas, A&M, Tech, OU, and OSU...it was going to be either them or CU).

With all that said, I hope A&M goes. The Big XII is a dying conference, and it'd be the perfect way for us to put ourselves in a better position. The Pac 16 offers more exciting prospects than a "revamped" Big XII with the likes of BYU, SMU, and/or Houston. I also firmly expect A&M to be battling the Mississippi schools for last place in the SEC West for the foreseeable future, which is just funny.

Whatever happens, Texas, along with Notre Dame, are the two most sought after brands in college athletics. We'll be fine.

Thank God it's football season again.

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:01 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 36):

Well, all I can do is shrug.

You are not like most college football fans, nor are you the target market for college football. I actually feel pretty sorry that you only think of passionate college football fans as cretins and rednecks. Pretty insulting and a very ignorant view, but I see there's nothing that can convince you, and I'm content to leave you with what you think and feel sorry you never experienced the magic and passion of gameday, decked out in your school's colors and cheering hard for your favorite team, and experience the immense glory or heartbreak of the outcome. It's one of the best feelings in the world, I think.

[Edited 2011-09-04 19:04:12]
 
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:12 am

Quoting Airport (Reply 38):
You are not like most college football fans, nor are you the target market for college football.

Actually that's reversed. The superfans are going to buy the premium cable package and park themselves in front of the TV to see their team open a can of whoop ass on Nobody State. I, however, won't. I'm going to be watching the good games, the clash of the titans type matchups so they better keep me interested.

And those games don't help the big guys either. If they win, it doesn't gain them much since they are supposed to win. If they lose, or even don't win by enough, they get blasted. Plus, fewer people watch so it doesn't contribute much to prestige or exposure.

Quoting Airport (Reply 38):
I actually feel pretty sorry that you only think of passionate college football fans as cretins and rednecks.

Even Packers fans never bothered to kill a tree. Of course, I am still wondering if it's dumber to kill a tree people love for some reason or to love the tree that much in the first place.

Quoting Airport (Reply 38):
the magic and passion of gameday, decked out in your school's colors and cheering hard for your favorite team.

What makes you think that "magic" would go away if big names broke off to make more money and have better matchups? Would people enjoy the game less if the star player makes more money? Would fans not be able to get as wasted at a competitive game?
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:41 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 39):

Got to agree with Anthony, here. Your grouping all hardcore football fans into rednecks from the South, and that's simply not true.

If you don't understand it, that's fine. But no one who understands it would be saying the things you are, and pretending they do get it. You clearly don't have any strong allegiance for a single team, based on only caring about the big games. Sure, LSU-Oregon and Boise St.-Georgia were "marquee" games this past weekend, and I certainly would've tuned in if I hadn't been abroad. I did, however, find a crappy stream online to watch Texas play Rice this year. That's the exact kind of game you're talking about people not caring about. But it's all a component of the season. College is a fundamentally different game from the NFL.

You aren't the target market for college football. Most college football fans have a single team that they care about more than everyone else. And while I may not care that Ohio State was playing Akron yesterday, I watch as a fan of college football in no small part becuase I'm tangentially affected as a Texas fan by what happens to other teams (more so in previous years where we're both ranked highly).

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 39):
And those games don't help the big guys either.

  

Not true. They get a chance to work on things in a game situation, where it actually matters. Call it a glorified scrimmage if you want, but that game counts for something. And being able to work on things you've practiced against different groups of players on different teams is beneficial.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 36):
It's not the pageantry and tradition.

But it is, though. The reason these types of contracts are able to be signed is because there is demand to see these types of games. And it is, in part, the pageantry and tradition that gives college football its demand.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 36):
I'm a casual fan because there are too many games that suck.

No, you're a casual fan because you don't have a team. If you have a team, every game has meaning to you.

You really don't get it. Again, that's fine, and I'm not going to try to force you to get it, but don't pretend like you do, and expect real fans of the game like Anthony or I to believe you.

Cheers,
Cameron

BTW, you're also completely discounting the monetary aspect of having the crappy schools play you at home. The amount of revenue generated by having those home games is huge, as opposed to playing better opposition, and being forced to return the favor at their place next year. Those games exist precisely because of the finances to be gained.
Cheers,
Cameron
 
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:28 am

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 40):
But it's all a component of the season.

Why have a crappy component of the season? Just have a preseason like the NFL where everybody knows it sucks and can avoid it more easily. Why pretend it matters?

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 40):
You aren't the target market for college football.

Then that is a marketing mistake. The hardcore fans will be there no matter what so teams need to try and capture the casual fans.

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 40):
BTW, you're also completely discounting the monetary aspect of having the crappy schools play you at home. The amount of revenue generated by having those home games is huge, as opposed to playing better opposition, and being forced to return the favor at their place next year. Those games exist precisely because of the finances to be gained.

Perhaps, but setting up their own super league could make up for it with increased TV revenues and not having to share with small schools. Why should the big teams subsidize smaller schools that don't have the following and mass appeal?
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:39 am

Thanks Cameron for backing me up on this, I'm glad I'm not the only one in this thread who feels this way.  
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 41):
Why have a crappy component of the season? Just have a preseason like the NFL where everybody knows it sucks and can avoid it more easily. Why pretend it matters?

Because for one the players are College students first and foremost. The coaches need those games against smaller, slower opponents because it gives them time to find and fix mistakes, and they don't want to injure the students any more than they have to, which constantly playing against elite teams would do exactly that, since the people we're talking about are 18-23.

And for two, they can do that, and there is still very strong demand for it. Over 110,000 braved severe weather and torrential rain to watch Michigan play Western Michigan yesterday.

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 40):
But it is, though. The reason these types of contracts are able to be signed is because there is demand to see these types of games. And it is, in part, the pageantry and tradition that gives college football its demand.

Absolutely nailed it. The pageantry and the tradition are what creates the school culture and, in part, is a huge reason students become prideful in their university and stay as lifelong fans. It's what seperates Florida from Florida State, or West Virginia from Pittsburgh. It's exactly why you see so many people passionate about their teams.   

Unlike the NFL, where you have ultra-generic teams with little true culture and history and tradition that, in some cases, will date back to the 19th century. You don't get that passion in the NFL for that very reason.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 41):
Then that is a marketing mistake. The hardcore fans will be there no matter what so teams need to try and capture the casual fans.

Why is it when you don't understand something, you call it a dysfunctional system? No offense, but this statement is pretty arrogant to me, it's like you're trying to say you're smarter than all of the thousands of university presidents, athletic directors, and coaches by telling them they're making a mistake, when you yourself haven't demonstrated very much of a thorough knowledge of the sport.

What you're forgetting is that the vast majority of fans are students who become loyal to their team over their course of study, not people who never cared and slowly got into it. That's why you're not and never will be the target market, it's just not how it works. That's why schools may have down years for long periods of time, but will still maintain a healthy fanbase. In College Athletics it's not about the team, it's about the university. The team is just the "front porch" and it's used to get people to care more about their school.

And what you're failing to realize is that your system would alienate and completely shut out over half the market of College Football. Why would TV networks like ESPN, FOX, and CBS want to lose half of their viewers? Sure you wouldn't notice it immediately, people currently loyal to their teams like Tulsa, Toledo, Marshall, and Louisville would stay loyal. But by shutting out the dozens and dozens of mid-majors and teams with crappy football teams but large fanbases, the amount of new fans would dramatically decline, as hundreds of thousands of students now don't have nearly as much reason to care about their team and their university because it's shut out and unable to compete with your "superleague."

Thus the overall health, and interest of the sport as a whole goes into severe decline over time. That is exactly why the smaller schools play a large role in the overall success of College Football, even if they don't field good football teams.

[Edited 2011-09-04 22:43:22]
 
BMI727
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Mon Sep 05, 2011 6:00 am

Quoting Airport (Reply 42):
Because for one the players are College students first and foremost.

 Wow!   

Quoting Airport (Reply 42):
Why is it when you don't understand something, you call it a dysfunctional system? No offense, but this statement is pretty arrogant to me, it's like you're trying to say you're smarter than all of the thousands of university presidents, athletic directors, and coaches by telling them they're making a mistake, when you yourself haven't demonstrated very much of a thorough knowledge of the sport.

That's how the exposure and profile of a program grows: by getting people who aren't already watching. The serious fans will watch anyway so the people in charge need to get to the people who are just looking for a good game to watch. Beating up on weak sisters doesn't really do that. Having big games each week, that can be televised nationally and/or make for even stronger TV networks of their own is going to get those people watching the team.

Quoting Airport (Reply 42):
Why would TV networks like ESPN, FOX, and CBS want to lose half of their viewers?

I don't think that they would. Even fans of smaller teams would watch because they would see huge matchups each week.

But it comes down to why the big schools and conferences that have the critical mass would stay with the NCAA that is always a free coffee away from punishing them when they could leave and take the money and top players for themselves. It's an interesting idea, and I don't think it's as outrageous as it seems at first glance.
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Mon Sep 05, 2011 6:47 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 43):

Screw it. I'm perfectly fine with you being utterly clueless with how College Football actually works. You seem to have a completely warped view of it based on what I reckon is from following strictly SEC teams. I would be happy to discuss it, but since you insist on being so disrespectful, I'd rather not waste my time.
 
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:28 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 41):
Why pretend it matters?

You're the only one saying they don't matter, simply because it's not compelling for you to watch. As Anthony alluded to, teams don't want a difficult game each week. If they did, you'd see it happen. Playing those small directional schools serves a purpose. You just don't see it. A super conference would be vastly more costly in terms of geography. That's why the conference system the way it is is so popular. Most of them are regional, which makes travel costs significantly less, and reduces the stresses on these people who are, at least supposed to be, students, as well.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 41):
The hardcore fans will be there no matter what so teams need to try and capture the casual fans.

Why? The hardcore fans are the ones that drive the revenue. You're not going to contribute hardly anything do a university's bottom line. If hypothetically every game was a good one, on a tier one television agreement, then you, as a TV subscriber, are contributing no more than $5 over the course of the season. You aren't buying merchandise. You aren't going to games. Compare that to the "superfan" that you love to mock, who will gladly pay $30 for a PPV game against Directional St., buy several merchandise items that each net the school more than your casual fandom, and in some cases, buy season tickets which wind up being $500 or a lot more, when you factor in donations to the university's fund to be eligible for season tickets.

So you're looking at someone who can reasonably provide the university with $1000 worth of revenue in a season. They need two-hundred of you (or even more...I think ESPN commands about $1 per subscriber) for every one of Anthony or I. And that's not even counting the tens of thousands of fans who don't go to the games, but still contribute every penny for TV that you do, and buy merchandise.

Furthermore, once the TV contracts are signed, it doesn't really matter who's watching. It would if the networks weren't getting anyone watching, since they'd lose ad revenue, and would then be less inclined to make a new deal, but the fact is, that doesn't happen. People watch college football. All the time. Whether it's at the beginning of the season, or during conference games which often have a rivalry component attached to them.

As Anthony said, it is pretty arrogant to assume you know what's better for these universities than the people that run them. I'd put Texas' athletic director up against almost any businessman in the country when it comes to his savvy. Don't get me wrong, as a fan, I'd love to see more of Texas playing Ohio State like they did when it was #1 vs. #2 in September 2006. It was compelling, and fun as hell as a fan. But I also understand that while that is a give and take because you usually have to give up a home game to get one, playing a lesser school is a win-win for both schools. The amount of money small schools get paid by getting destroyed by an elite program on the road is massive for them, but a drop in the bucket for us compared to the total revenue we get by filling a 100,000 seat stadium (or at least selling every seat in...which is all that matters to them).

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 43):
That's how the exposure and profile of a program grows: by getting people who aren't already watching.

No. There is only one thing that grows exposure, and that is winning. Winning precedes exposure, not the other way around, and getting people who aren't already watching is a byproduct of that success. Boise St. is a perfect example. They play in a very small market, in a very mediocre conference, that has a very mediocre television deal. But because they've got a great coach, who's able to develop talent along with the best of them, they've been able to make some noise on the national level. Only at that point do casual fans begin to care what Boise is up to. 15 years ago, Boise St. playing Georgia isn't any more of a blip on peoples' radar than Ohio St.-Akron or Texas-Rice. It's only because they've started winning that people care. By having the ability to watch a game on TV, the casual fan is contributing as much as they're going to.

I guarantee you, you aren't thinking of anything that hasn't been thought up before by the ADs of the top universities. To SOME extent, they're legitimizing that thought by the inevitable move to super-conferences. The games against the Little Sisters of the Poor will remain, because there's too much financial incentive to play 6 home games instead of 5.

If Texas can sell 100,119 seats at $75 a piece to Rice (which is what face value was, some games are almost $100), that's $7.5 million per game from ticket sales alone. When you factor in everything associated with having a home game, you're looking at well in excess of $10 million of revenue per home game. If you include an average $700 donation to the Longhorn Foundation (a donation is required to get season tickets from the University, so someone paid it at some point, regardless of whether they're sold second hand or not), spread out over 6 games that's $19.2 million per game. ESPN's unprecedented $2.25 billion deal with the SEC over 15 years amounts to $12.5 million per team, per year. When you factor in tier 2 and 3 rights, the top schools are making around $20 million per year. So one home game generates more revenue than all of the TV deals combined. I'd say that's PLENTY of incentive to keep the bad schools on the schedule.

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:00 pm

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 37):
We proposed a Big XII network
Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 37):
We offered your stupid asses
Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 37):
we were the ones that decided not to bolt for the Pac 16
Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 37):
We aren't going to struggle to recruit.

What's with the "We"? Unless your profile is incomplete - Southwestern University (a great school BTW) - ain't the University of Texas - a maniac you may be a longhorn you apparently are not.

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 37):
You've been reading way too much Tex Ags.

I haven't but apparently you have, your t-shirt fan status is duly noted.

 
 
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:21 pm

Quoting ModernArt (Reply 46):

  Both my parents have their master's from the University of Texas, I've taken classes at the University of Texas, and I've had season tickets to University of Texas football for almost 15 years. I've been to all four of Texas' BCS games, and up until this year, I could count on one had the number of games I've missed. I think most people would count me as an honorary Longhorn.

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
JBirdAV8r
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:08 pm

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 47):
Both my parents have their master's from the University of Texas, I've taken classes at the University of Texas, and I've had season tickets to University of Texas football for almost 15 years. I've been to all four of Texas' BCS games, and up until this year, I could count on one had the number of games I've missed. I think most people would count me as an honorary Longhorn.

I visited Dallas, does that make me a Texan?  

  
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
kstateinALB
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RE: Texas A&M Says Goodbye Big 12. Hello SEC?

Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:22 pm

Well, considering this thread mainly talks about TX, TAMU and OU, I'll give my perspective from one of the schools that could be effed by this realignment gig.

See, here at K-State, we've taken advantage of this conference relationship that we have. If you look at the money and size aspect of our school, we aren't as big as 7-8 schools in the conference. We don't bring in as much money, our location sucks, etc. These reasons are why any conference movement could literally kill our school.

People out here blame greed and the like for the possible reason why we could be screwed. Technically, they're right. But, I see why schools are doing it. The greener pastures of the PAC-12 and SEC might indeed be greener. If I could make a ton more money and play somewhat "better" schools, I'd want that. So yes, again, this sucks for K-State.

Does an invite to the Big East save our school? Yes, it does. Would the Big XII staying together save our school? Yes, it would. Here's the deal, moving to the Mountain West or whatever would not be a good thing for us. A portion of our student body attends this school plainly because we are in the Big XII conference, whether it be because they are from a state with a current Big XII member, or because they've noticed K-State when playing nationally televised Big XII conference games. We don't see those students if we leave this conference.

As a biased NY'er myself, I'd love to see us get a Big East invite, along with KU, Baylor, and Missouri/Iowa State. Being able to watch us play football and basketball on the coast would be great for me. For the school? I still don't know about that yet.
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