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Superfly
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Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:15 pm

This is no joke.
Hard to believe but this is what the President of the United States said;

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...yment_for_eliminating_tellers.html

His comments are so far off the mark.
Here is a response to Mr. President's comments that sums it up much quicker than I can type out.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmNyYYob8dg


Perhaps this gives a better explanation to the continued economic misery Obama initially inherited from Dubya & Co.
This better explains why Obama was the 1st US President to achieve a downgrade of the US dollar's credit worthiness for the first time in history.
I took economics in high school (11th grade) and again in undergrad in college. Both of my teachers were hardcore lefties. I learned then that automation is a good thing for advancement of society overall. So I am curious about were Obama is getting his economic education from.
There are no statistics from the department of labor to verify his claims. The airport kiosk has been around for about 7-8 years now. When airlines were furloughing staff left & right in the past decade, it wasn't just gate agents. From what I remember, pilots, mechanics, flight attendants, gate agents, ramp rats as well as management and administrators were losing there jobs as well.
I find President Obama's comments extremely ignorant and far beneath the office he was elected to.
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ER757
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:25 pm

So do self-service gas stations and self checkout aisles at grocery stores along with lots of other things. Trains put stagecoach drivers and blacksmiths out of work. The landscape is ever changing, any new technology is going to cause the loss of some job category.
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:27 pm

Quoting Superfly (Thread starter):
This is no joke.
Hard to believe but this is what the President of the United States said;

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...yment_for_eliminating_tellers.html

His comments are so far off the mark.
Here is a response to Mr. President's comments that sums it up much quicker than I can type out.

His comments are totally correct. While automation does have its benefits, it often leads to far fewer jobs.

Quoting Superfly (Thread starter):
From what I remember, pilots, mechanics, flight attendants, gate agents, ramp rats as well as management and administrators were losing there jobs as well.

True, all job categories lost people, but those working the counter (and res agents) took a much harder hit. It's amazing now to walk into a major airport and see 20-30 check in positions, but only a handful of agents. It was totally different 10-15 years ago.
 
cargolex
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:29 pm

...And just about anybody can recognize that Obama is not saying that ATM's and Airport Kiosks are responsible for the current unemployment levels. What he's saying is true - in a macro sense. The more you automate, the less you need people do these jobs. But it takes some pretty extreme interpretation to suggest that he's saying that this why unemployment is where it is - because that's not what he's saying in the literal sense.

What you're basically saying is that if Obama used the words "Kill" and "Puppies" in the same interview, it means he supports and enjoys killing puppies. That is not the case, and you know it.

Here is what he is really saying:

During the economic crisis, many companies laid off tons of workers. Now they have discovered that they can have their existing workers be more productive and do jobs that used to take two workers or three. That puts more burden on the employee but hey, if you want to keep your job you'll work harder, right? Because it's tough out there. Plus, it allows the company to make more money. You're spending less on labor but getting most of the work done.

Corporations are sitting on vast reserves of capital right now and not hiring, because why would you if you can do the same job with fewer people and therefore have more profit and less loss (expenses paid)? That's just good business sense on the individual company level, though it may not be good for the economy in the macro sense.

Forest, meet Trees.

[Edited 2011-08-31 12:30:43]
 
Superfly
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:33 pm

Quoting ER757 (Reply 1):
So do self-service gas stations and self checkout aisles at grocery stores along with lots of other things. Trains put stagecoach drivers and blacksmiths out of work. The landscape is ever changing, any new technology is going to cause the loss of some job category.

Agreed.
I thought this was a universally known fact. Why is the President of the United States who is a Harvard graduate not aware of this? This level of ignorance sinks him to George W. Bush's level.
This is scary knowing that a man of this level of ignorance is the President of the United States.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 2):
True, all job categories lost people, but those working the counter (and res agents) took a much harder hit. It's amazing now to walk into a major airport and see 20-30 check in positions, but only a handful of agents. It was totally different 10-15 years ago.

Care to back that up?
I haven't seen any stats to verify Obama's claim.


I remember seeing the first ATM machine in 1981 when I was 8 years old. There have been several economic booms since then and it's interesting that banking hours are longer today than they were before the ATM.
So I fail to see the ATM causing the current economic crisis.
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cargolex
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:36 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 4):
So I fail to see the ATM causing the current economic crisis.

That is because it is not the cause, and Obama is not saying it is the cause.
 
Superfly
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:39 pm

Quoting CargoLex (Reply 5):
That is because it is not the cause, and Obama is not saying it is the cause.

So why did he bring up ATM machines?
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cargolex
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:45 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
So why did he bring up ATM machines?

It's called an analogy.

a·nal·o·gy
noun, plural -gies.
1. a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based: the analogy between the heart and a pump.

In many ways, an ATM is illustrative of the problem, though it itself is not the problem. If a company can get their workers to do more work with fewer people, they will not hire. In the current situation, many companies let go tons of people and then got those left over to do more. They won't hire back those other people until the situation becomes unbearable and they really need those additional workers. With slow growth, that could be a long time. Those people out of work can't spend, which hinders growth, which makes the cycle go further.

If Obama had been speaking in aviation terms, he would have said something like this:

If an airline can get by with a 777-300ER, which does 85% of the job of an A380 or B748 but costs far less to buy and operate, they will go with that choice until they really really cannot live without the capacity of an A380 or B748.
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:49 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 4):
Care to back that up?
I haven't seen any stats to verify Obama's claim.

Have you been to an airport recently versus 10-15 years ago? When I used to fly out of PNS in the 90's, there was always about 4 check-in agents for Delta. Today, there are usually 2. However, DL has just as many flights and passengers today as they did then.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 4):
So I fail to see the ATM causing the current economic crisis.

Obama didn't say the ATM alone caused the crisis.
 
Superfly
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:58 pm

Quoting CargoLex (Reply 7):
a·nal·o·gy
noun, plural -gies.
1. a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based: the analogy between the heart and a pump.

Duh!  
Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 8):
Have you been to an airport recently versus 10-15 years ago? When I used to fly out of PNS in the 90's, there was always about 4 check-in agents for Delta. Today, there are usually 2. However, DL has just as many flights and passengers today as they did then.

I dunno, I still see plenty of gate agents where I travel and they also have kiosk.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 8):
Obama didn't say the ATM alone caused the crisis.

So why did he bring up ATM machines?
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Kiwirob
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:01 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 4):
I remember seeing the first ATM machine in 1981 when I was 8 years old. There have been several economic booms since then and it's interesting that banking hours are longer today than they were before the ATM.
So I fail to see the ATM causing the current economic crisis.

It's not but the growth of the ATM has probably caused the loss of millions of front line customer facing banking jobs round the world. When I worked for NCR part of the sales pitch was basically 1 ATM takes the place of 2 counter staff. At least in NZ all the major banks shut down surburban/rural branches and replaced them with ATM's, I can't see it being any different in the US.
 
cargolex
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:01 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 9):
Duh!

Apparently it isn't so obvious because...

Quoting Superfly (Reply 9):
So why did he bring up ATM machines?

...Here we go again:

Quoting CargoLex (Reply 7):
It's called an analogy.

a·nal·o·gy
noun, plural -gies.
1. a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based: the analogy between the heart and a pump.

In many ways, an ATM is illustrative of the problem, though it itself is not the problem. If a company can get their workers to do more work with fewer people, they will not hire. In the current situation, many companies let go tons of people and then got those left over to do more. They won't hire back those other people until the situation becomes unbearable and they really need those additional workers. With slow growth, that could be a long time. Those people out of work can't spend, which hinders growth, which makes the cycle go further.
 
Superfly
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:03 pm

So its obvious no one watched the 2nd. video.
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casinterest
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:05 pm

Quoting Superfly (Thread starter):
His comments are so far off the mark.
Here is a response to Mr. President's comments that sums it up much quicker than I can type out.

His comments are right on the mark.


He was talking about efficiency gains causing the loss of SPECIFIC jobs. Not CAUSING total unemployment. Just unemployment within the field where the disruptive technology occurreed.

Quoting Superfly (Thread starter):
Here is a response to Mr. President's comments that sums it up much quicker than I can type out.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmNyYYob8dg


Perhaps this gives a better explanation to the continued economic misery Obama initially inherited from Dubya & Co.
This better explains why Obama was the 1st

This was done by someone who completely missed what Obama was saying.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
So why did he bring up ATM machines?

He is talking about retraining.


it's an example of a place where workers need to be retrained for the jobs of the future. go back and watch the 47 segment again. And listen to the whole thing. He does not blame ATM's for unemployment. He just says it is what causes tellers to be unemployed. Just as the Kiosk causes Airline counter workers to be unemployed. Just as the Car engine caused the buggy whip makers to go unemployed.
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cargolex
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:05 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 12):
So its obvious no one watched the 2nd. video.

You mean the absurdly partisan rant that's just as absurd as your conclusion?

What's obvious is that you are attempting to put words and meaning where they aren't, and not doing a very good job of it either.
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:12 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 9):
I dunno, I still see plenty of gate agents where I travel and they also have kiosk.

Sure, there are still some gate agents around, but there are just fewer of them.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 9):
So why did he bring up ATM machines?

Because automation contributes to the problem. It's a relatively small part of our economic woes, but there's no doubt the problem is there.
 
Superfly
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:23 pm

Quoting CargoLex (Reply 14):
You mean the absurdly partisan rant that's just as absurd as your conclusion?

Well I can be absurd at times.  
Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 15):
Because automation contributes to the problem. It's a relatively small part of our economic woes, but there's no doubt the problem is there.
Quoting casinterest (Reply 13):
He was talking about efficiency gains causing the loss of SPECIFIC jobs. Not CAUSING total unemployment. Just unemployment within the field where the disruptive technology occurreed.

So in Obama's green future, there will be no ATMs and airport kiosk?
What solutions does he have for this new 'problem'?
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casinterest
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:41 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 16):
So in Obama's green future, there will be no ATMs and airport kiosk?
What solutions does he have for this new 'problem'?


You are still continuing down your path of conclusions, to a Problem Obama didn't say we had.

ATM's and KIOSKS are technology by the way, and will be replaced by technology. Technology jobs will shift to other technologies.

the problem with the US jobs, is that the manufacturing jobs are all going overseas due to the cheapness of the labor. There is this beleif that folks in the US, in additrion to having a stronger dollar, are somehow going to get jobs that replaced the manufacturing jobs and pay just as well. Unfortunately that has yet to happen.
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Dreadnought
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:36 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 13):
He does not blame ATM's for unemployment. He just says it is what causes tellers to be unemployed.

Funny he doesn't mention those people who are employed by the companies who manufacture and maintain those ATMs and kiosks.

By the same logic, we should regret the invention of power tools. If carpenters and mechanics did not have power tools, builders would have to employ a whole lot more people to build a house in an alloted period of time - that's would be a good thing, wouldn't it...?
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ER757
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:43 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 18):
Funny he doesn't mention those people who are employed by the companies who manufacture and maintain those ATMs and kiosks.

You beat me to it by about 30 seconds! Was just about to mention the very thing you did. For every new technology that eliminates jobs in one sector, it creates jobs in another. Not always a one to one replacement though, so automation and other technological advances can indeed contribute to unemployment. Think of how many folks that worked at Borders, Barnes and Noble (yes, they're still around but not like they used to be) and other bookstores are now out of a job because of places like Amazon.com. Certainly more people lost jobs at the brick and mortar stores than gained jobs at Amazon. That' just the way of the world.
 
cargolex
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:19 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 18):
Funny he doesn't mention those people who are employed by the companies who manufacture and maintain those ATMs and kiosks.

Since he is making an analogy and not speaking literally, I see no reason why he would. Because the analogy would apply there as well.

But let's try and go to a mathematical example.

Let's say that "Bob's ATM" has 1,500 employees servicing 15,000 ATMs. Thats ten ATMs per employee.

There's an economic downturn and now they only have contracts to service 10,000 ATM's so they lay off 500 people. Still, you've got ten ATM's per person doing the servicing.

Let's say things pick up a little bit and they get an additional 1,000 ATM's to service. If they get each employee to make one extra stop per day, they don't need to add anybody. So now you have each employee servicing 11 ATM's per day. During the good times, perhaps the company set the limit on ten because they didn't have to work as efficiently.

By doing this, you've raised profit and cut loss. Because your expenses are lower with fewer employees while you can squeeze out a little more productivity out of them to cover the work generated by your new 1,000-strong ATM servicing contract. Eventually, if you keep adding more ATMs to service per employee either the quality of that service will greatly decline or you simply won't be able to meet demand. And then you'll have to hire. But you can stand on the fence and wait as long as you want, or as long as your customers and employees are willing to tolerate, to do so.

That is the situation that Obama is talking about - and it is commonplace today.

American workers are extremely productive - and productivity has gone way up since the economic crisis, because more employees are doing more work than they used to - because they have fewer co-workers. They do a larger share of the pie of work because there are fewer slices of the pie but you still need to get the work done. And many employees are afraid of not accepting this because if they don't they know they could be on the bread line too.

The economic crisis forced many companies to continue offering the same stuff they've always offered but with fewer employees - to work more efficiently and to make do with less. Now that they have the ability to hire, they're not going to abandon those more efficient practices unless there is a reason to because that's just how capitalism works. And it sucks if you're on the wrong side of it, but that's how it is. In the macro sense, it is hard to get companies to hire more people unless they feel they should, even if hiring more people would help stimulate demand for their own products and services. It's Chicken Vs. Egg.

Obama is not speaking literally, and should not be interpreted as such. Unless you consider understanding the concepts of Metaphors and Analogies to be too "elitist" to take seriously.

[Edited 2011-08-31 15:36:43]
 
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casinterest
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:13 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 18):
Funny he doesn't mention those people who are employed by the companies who manufacture and maintain those ATMs and kiosks.

My point is that Tellers and Tellers only lose jobs, but I guess just like the thread starter you are trying to stretch people
s comments into something they are not. If you had read my first line you may have caught the actual point,

Quoting casinterest (Reply 13):
He was talking about efficiency gains causing the loss of SPECIFIC jobs. Not CAUSING total unemployment. Just unemployment within the field where the disruptive technology occurreed.
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Dreadnought
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:16 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 21):
My point is that Tellers and Tellers only lose jobs, but I guess just like the thread starter you are trying to stretch people
s comments into something they are not. If you had read my first line you may have caught the actual point,

But it is a useless point. What is he saying, that we should outlaw technological progress because of the disruption it might cause to people (like tellers) who might need to find a new line of work?

There is an old proverb in the country that is used to describe a man who wastes time and can’t get any thing done. It is said, “He runs around like a man in a silo looking for a corner to piss in.” Our president often reminds me of such a man.
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gigneil
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:18 pm

The reality of the matter is, he's correct. Those things DO cause unemployment.

Do I think that's bad? No.

NS
 
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casinterest
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:21 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 22):
But it is a useless point. What is he saying, that we should outlaw technological progress because of the disruption it might cause to people (like tellers) who might need to find a new line of work?

Did you listen to the whole 47 second clip?

I don't think so.

Go back and listen to it.

He was talking about retraining those folks into a new line of work. He said nothing about outlawing technoligical progress. Go listen to the clip again. All 47 seconds.
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gigneil
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:23 pm

This thread is just further proof that most conservatives only care about politicizing their values, and not for American solidarity and a functional government.

NS
 
A346Dude
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:15 pm

The goal of any society should not be to have as many jobs as possible. It should be to have as few jobs as possible. Wouldn't it be ideal if we only had to work one or two hours a day, yet through a combination of automation and efficiency were able to enjoy the same quality of life we have today?

[Edited 2011-09-01 14:17:21]
You know the gear is up and locked when it takes full throttle to taxi to the terminal.
 
gigneil
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:29 pm

Ask any Qatari. Or Kuwaiti. THAT's a good life.

NS
 
Superfly
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:01 am

Quoting A346Dude (Reply 26):
The goal of any society should not be to have as many jobs as possible. It should be to have as few jobs as possible. Wouldn't it be ideal if we only had to work one or two hours a day, yet through a combination of automation and efficiency were able to enjoy the same quality of life we have today?

I agree. It would also be great if money grew on trees. In order to have a society with lots of wealth, you need to drill for more oil. Obama's moratorium on drilling permits hurt several companies. Read up on Seahawk which was a small offshore drilling company that had to file bankruptcy due to Obama's moratorium. This was a new company that used modern, state of the art oil drilling methods that had to go belly up thanks to Obama's anti oil policies.
Obama can't blame these job loses on ATM machines or Bush.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 25):
This thread is just further proof that most conservatives...

Whoa, hold it there. I am still a liberal. I just happen to understand how things work.

Quoting CargoLex (Reply 20):
Since he is making an analogy

It's not even a good analogy because new jobs are created with the new technology. He fails to mention any of that. If you listen to the geekydude in the second clip, he goes on to explain how the new technology has lead to social progress as well, particularly for women. The President isn't even in the ballpark when it comes to economics.
Looks like Obama brought a softball to play a game of football.
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san747
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:33 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 28):
I agree. It would also be great if money grew on trees. In order to have a society with lots of wealth, you need to drill for more oil.

Oil or not, we'll never become one of the conspicuously wealthy Middle-Eastern countries like Bahrain, UAE or Qatar. We're simply too big and too diverse.
Scotty doesn't know...
 
Superfly
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:37 am

Quoting san747 (Reply 29):
Oil or not, we'll never become one of the conspicuously wealthy Middle-Eastern countries like Bahrain, UAE or Qatar. We're simply too big and too diverse.

Exactly. That is why its important to create jobs so people are working. Its important to have a President that understand that concept and has people in his administration that has experience in this arena.
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san747
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Fri Sep 02, 2011 6:12 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 30):

Exactly. That is why its important to create jobs so people are working. Its important to have a President that understand that concept and has people in his administration that has experience in this arena.

No disagreement there.
Scotty doesn't know...
 
PPVRA
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Sat Sep 03, 2011 4:02 am

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 2):
Quoting CargoLex (Reply 3):
.

The Curse of Machines: http://econin1lesson.blogspot.com/2009/09/eiol-curse-of-machinery.html

Quoting CargoLex (Reply 3):
Corporations are sitting on vast reserves of capital right now and not hiring, because why would you if you can do the same job with fewer people and therefore have more profit and less loss (expenses paid)? That's just good business sense on the individual company level, though it may not be good for the economy in the macro sense.

More productivity is GOOD for the economy, not bad. AND good for jobs in the long run, both in terms of pay and job security.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
wukka
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Sat Sep 03, 2011 11:20 am

Quoting casinterest (Reply 24):
He was talking about retraining those folks into a new line of work.

On whose dime? Not being confrontational, just curious. Is "retraining" another government program?

Seriously, who is going to pay for this?
We can agree to disagree.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:14 pm

Here is another perspective: By the use of automation, labor costs are reduced which in turn means lower costs to consumers who are sensitive to having to pay more for anything and improves profits for corporations.

The ATM also means banks and other businesses can better serve most of their customers, do so 24/7/365, so if you need cash or can't get to a bank during normal business hours, you can take care of basic business. The remaining employees means they can give more attention to those transactions that the ATM's can't do. The airport Kiosks mean you can serve the customer with minimal needs and give more attention to those who need it more. The only problem is when there is a severe storm or other problem that the kiosks can't handle and then you don't have enough staff to cover needs and you tick off your customers.

The background of this comment by President Obama is the reality that many jobs that took humans have been replaced by computers and automation, not just due to them being shipped outside the USA, and will never return. Many of the jobs these machines replace were/are not well paying ones anyway. The real challange is how we create new decent paying middle-class jobs in the USA and there are few answers.
 
dxing
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:55 pm

Quoting CargoLex (Reply 3):
Corporations are sitting on vast reserves of capital right now and not hiring, because why would you if you can do the same job with fewer people and therefore have more profit and less loss (expenses paid)? That's just good business sense on the individual company level, though it may not be good for the economy in the macro sense.

Agreed they are sitting on capital, disagree as to your reasoning. The regulatory fever of the current administration and uncertainty of government intervention is what most business groups cite as their members hesitance to hire and expand. Why hire someone if the government is going to put out a regulation that forces you to let them go, or introduces a tax or fee that prices the worker out of the market place through no fault of their own?

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 10):
I can't see it being any different in the US.

Yeah it is. Over the past few years one bank has built at least 5 new branches within 20 miles of my home and another has added 2. Of course I'm sure it is probably different in other areas of the country but here banks are doing a pretty good business.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 13):
He was talking about efficiency gains causing the loss of SPECIFIC jobs. Not CAUSING total unemployment.

But those specific jobs add to total unemployment. No way around that.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:05 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 28):
Whoa, hold it there. I am still a liberal. I just happen to understand how things work.

I wasn't talking about you. However, you didn't pay great attention to the clip.  
Quoting wukka (Reply 33):
Seriously, who is going to pay for this?

Its one of those things I'd be happy to pay for.

NS
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Sun Sep 04, 2011 1:18 am

keeping in mind of course that 'a job' to politicians involves paid work, not a career, stimulating employment etc.

They don't care if there are Doctors working in McDonald's as long as their figures can be twisted to provide the statistics they need for more votes. Obama has just realised that 15% of the working population are unemployed, and are ripe for the picking in elections if he can draw them in.

As for ATMs they are a good thing. No question. They offer 24h convenience without having to pay some poor bastard to work a graveyard shift where for 50 minutes out of every hour he'd be doing absolutely nothing yet still costing the company money to keep him there.

Airport Kiosks speed processing times hugely. I have no complaints at all - and I work in the airline industry which has jobs 'at risk' from this automation...
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
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n229nw
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Sun Sep 04, 2011 3:14 am

It is really getting extreme how by this time people who hate Obama take and twist every word that comes out of his mouth to turn it into a supposed proof of his incompetence, "elitism," "America-Hating" or what. It is starting to remind me of that old scene from the Simpsons where Homer is interviews and they splice up the interview in a completely ridiculous way to frame him...

As several people here have noted, Obama is not trying to stop automation. He is acknowledging its role in changing society and considering responses to it.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 28):
Whoa, hold it there. I am still a liberal.

Your posts are actually a fascinating mix of center-left and pretty far right depending on the issues, actually. I would say that when it comes to the bedroom you are mainly a liberal, and on economic issues center to very right of center (on environmental issues), and on international affairs fairly extreme right.

I guess it would derail this thread, but I'd honestly be interested to hear the grounds on which you consider yourself liberal.

[Edited 2011-09-03 20:15:08]
All Glory to the Hypnotoad!
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Sun Sep 04, 2011 3:28 am

Quoting n229nw (Reply 38):
I guess it would derail this thread, but I'd honestly be interested to hear the grounds on which you consider yourself liberal.

The word 'liberal' no longer has any meaning in terms of describing political/economic viewpoints. The classical definition of liberalism for centuries meant “a belief in individual liberty.” Liberal, in the classical sense, means a “hands off”, or laissez-faire, policy. The United States is an example of a “liberal democracy.” America was founded on the idea that government was to play a minimal role in the affairs of society and the economy, that the job of the government was not to provide direction for society or the economy, but simply to maintain a “free environment” were the public could conduct themselves as they so chose, as long as they didn’t “infringe” on the “rights” of others.

Since 1932, FDR and those formerly known as 'progressives' gave the word a new meaning: a belief in paternalistic government and trading individual liberty for state-sponsored security.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
PPVRA
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:43 am

Quoting n229nw (Reply 38):
As several people here have noted, Obama is not trying to stop automation. He is acknowledging its role in changing society and considering responses to it.
"there are some structural issues with our economy where a lot of businesses have learned to become much more efficient with a lot fewer workers"

Productivity is not a "structural issue" unless it is decreasing. The ATMs and kiosks (automation) are just two examples of increased productivity he cited.

The disturbing thing is how some have come out defending the indefensible.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
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einsteinboricua
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:21 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
So why did he bring up ATM machines?

I can tell you that if banks start using Bank of America's ideas, pretty soon many banks will not have many agents. I opened an account with Bank of America where I can't have ANY interaction with the tellers or else I'll get charged $9/month. I don't know about you, but I'd rather not lose $9. so if this bank is creating an account where employees will basically be worthless, it's only a matter of time before all personal accounts follow the same principal. People, to save an extra $9, will rather have direct deposit or deposit/withdraw at ATMs.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 4):
Care to back that up?
I haven't seen any stats to verify Obama's claim.

Walk to the nearest big airport. I can tell you from experience that SJU is chock-full of kiosks. True, I get through check in pretty quick, and that's good. But at what cost? Nearly 10 years ago at the AA counter, I remember a BIG line with many employees processing the many daily departures of the day. Now, the lines are short and there are a lot of kiosks. If there are 10 employees, I'd be overestimating.

In fact, you don't even need to walk to an airport. Just look at how airlines are managing check-in these days: online. Look at NK and FR, keeping employee-customer interaction at the check in desk to a minimum (or risk a fee).

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 39):
The word 'liberal' no longer has any meaning in terms of describing political/economic viewpoints.

That's right. It's only a word to refer to anyone who thinks different from you, especially if he/she is not red.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
Superfly
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RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:04 am

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 34):
The real challange is how we create new decent paying middle-class jobs in the USA and there are few answers.

Not a challenge at all. Lifting the ban on off shore oil drilling and ease regulations on coal mining is a good start. Looks like Obama has finally come around on that but we all know it’s an effort to win a 2nd. term.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 36):
However, you didn't pay great attention to the clip.

Yes. I watched it repeatedly and it’s embarrassing to watch.

Quoting n229nw (Reply 38):
As several people here have noted, Obama is not trying to stop automation.

No one has said that.

Quoting n229nw (Reply 38):
I'd honestly be interested to hear the grounds on which you consider yourself liberal.

That would be a diversion but I'll be more than happy to discuss in another thread.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 39):
The word 'liberal' no longer has any meaning in terms of describing political/economic viewpoints. The classical definition of liberalism for centuries meant “a belief in individual liberty.” Liberal, in the classical sense, means a “hands off”, or laissez-faire, policy. The United States is an example of a “liberal democracy.” America was founded on the idea that government was to play a minimal role in the affairs of society and the economy, that the job of the government was not to provide direction for society or the economy, but simply to maintain a “free environment” were the public could conduct themselves as they so chose, as long as they didn’t “infringe” on the “rights” of others.

Since 1932, FDR and those formerly known as 'progressives' gave the word a new meaning: a belief in paternalistic government and trading individual liberty for state-sponsored security.

  
Took the words right out of my mouth.

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 40):
The disturbing thing is how some have come out defending the indefensible.

  
Since Obama said it, it’s OK.   

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 41):
I can tell you that if banks start using Bank of America's ideas,

YIKES!
Bank of America has to be the worst bank in the world! Terrible example of a bank.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 41):
That's right. It's only a word to refer to anyone who thinks different from you, especially if he/she is not red.

Oh come on Einstein, you're smarter than that.  
Bring back the Concorde
 
mika
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2000 7:53 am

RE: Obama: ATMs & Airport Kiosk Cause Unemployment

Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:13 am

Let's put Palin, Bachmann, Perry or for heavens(!) sake Donald Trump in the white house and watch the once mighty USA sink like a swiss cheese of a boat. I've started to actually want one of those guys to win the election, just to see it happen and prove the backwards mongers wrong once and for all. 2012 will by all counts be interesting.

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