dragon-wings
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Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:00 am

Troy Davis was scheduled to be executed for the 1989 murder of Mark MacPhail, an off-duty Savannah police officer tonight at 7pm. But now several of the witness have changed their story. And Davis' attorneys asked a judge to halt the proceeding, citing a new analysis they say shows ballistics testimony at his trial was "inaccurate and misleading." They also note that a federal judge found in 2010 that a jailhouse informer's testimony that Davis confessed to killing Officer Mark MacPhail was "patently false".

With several witness changing their story and the new ballistics testimony being "inaccurate and misleading" (according to the defense) shouldn't Georgia stop the execution and look into this stuff? They may very well be killing a inocent man.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/21/justice/georgia-execution/index.html
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aloges
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:31 am

I hardly believe that any number of a.netters are qualified to discuss it - but for what it may be worth: I hope the man gets a chance at another trial.

Whatever the outcome of this case may be - all executions are cold-blooded and premeditated murder, so the death penalty has no place in a civilised society.
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luv2fly
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:35 am

They all claim to be honest once behind the bars.
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Airstud
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:41 am

Quoting dragon-wings (Thread starter):
Davis' attorneys asked a judge to halt the proceeding, citing a new analysis they say shows ballistics testimony at his trial was "inaccurate and misleading."

Issue: Davis's attorneys say the new analysis shows the ballistics testimony was bad. Has anyone corroborated the attorneys' claim?

Quoting dragon-wings (Thread starter):
a federal judge found in 2010 that a jailhouse informer's testimony that Davis confessed to killing Officer Mark MacPhail was "patently false"

That certainly is a problem, but for me it raises the question of what other evidence is there against Davis? Just because a jailhouse snitch gave false testimony doesn't prove Davis didn't do it.

I've heard about the weakness of some of the evidence. I haven't seen the list of all the evidence.
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dragon-wings
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:51 am

Quoting Airstud (Reply 3):
That certainly is a problem, but for me it raises the question of what other evidence is there against Davis? Just because a jailhouse snitch gave false testimony doesn't prove Davis didn't do it.

Well according to MSNBC several witnesses changed their story not just the 1 jailhouse informer. Plus they said no gun was ever found.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44592285...s_news-crime_and_courts/?GT1=43001
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kiwiinoz
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:00 am

If some of the new information is in any way credible, it certainly deserves another round of scrutiny. This would be a pretty big story if he's innocent. Imagine it. In jail for all of that time, then a minute from death and then he walks free!

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AR385
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:16 am

Well, the Supreme Court has so far stopped "in extremis" the execution. I don´t know the technical term, wether it´s a "stay" a "suspension" or whatever, but so far it´s halted. Although the source says it could still happen anytime tonight.

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/inter.../elpepuint/20110922elpepuint_1/Tes

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canoecarrier
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:17 am

Quoting dragon-wings (Reply 4):
Well according to MSNBC several witnesses changed their story not just the 1 jailhouse informer.

"The judge examined each of the seven recantations and concluded that only one was entirely credible. But, he said, the credible recantation came from a witness whose earlier trial testimony was “patently false” and was thus not important to the conviction.

The other four recantations did not diminish the state’s case against Davis at all, the judge said, because a reasonable juror would disregard the recantation rather than jettison the earlier testimony.
"

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice...roy-Davis-Judge-upholds-conviction

And, not all of the people who testified against him recanted.

Quoting dragon-wings (Reply 4):
Plus they said no gun was ever found.

So? You can get a murder conviction without a body, why should you need to find a gun?

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 2):
They all claim to be honest once behind the bars.

No kidding. I read through a bunch of the last words Texas death row inmates made when we had a thread about it a while back. Apparently, no one on death row ever did anything wrong and it was all a conspiracy.
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RottenRay
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:23 am

7 of 9 witnesses have recanted their testimony.

At least one has spoken of intimidation by interrogating officers.

The original investigatory body cannot now at this time say for sure that a bullet casing - used as evidence by the prosecution - came from the gun that was claimed to be in possession of the defendant earlier in the evening.

The supposed gun is still a mystery.

Georgia, as well as many other southern states in the US, tend to stamp "solved" on cases involving the murder of police officers when the prime suspect is black.

Sorry, that's just the way it is...


Back to the original question: Is Georgia Going To Execute An Innocent Man?


The whole problem is that we don't know whether Troy Davis is innocent.

That's not the test for a guilty verdict. The test is, "beyond a reasonable doubt," and at least in my opinion, that test hasn't been met in this case.


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Jetsgo
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:24 am

From what I understand, it has been delayed because Georgia has yet to hear back from the Supreme Court. If the Supreme Court ends up giving the green light to an execution, will it have to be rescheduled or will the state simply carry it out at that time?

[Edited 2011-09-21 18:25:52]
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Ken777
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:31 am

It is interesting that there is so much concern for Troy Davis, but down in Texas another man was executed with very few people defending him. He was Lawrence Russell Brewer, a racist.supremacist gang member who was executed for dragging a black man in chains behind his pickup truck. A second man on Death Row for the crime has an appeal outstanding.

The reality in the Troy Davis case is a bit different. With the "doubt" now being raised there is no need to rush the execution. Give the guy the benefit of the doubt.

As far as the racist pig in Texas:

Quote:

Testimony showed the three men and Byrd drove out into the county and stopped along an isolated logging road. A fight broke out and the outnumbered Byrd was tied to the truck bumper with a 24-foot logging chain. Three miles later, what was left of his shredded remains was dumped between a black church and cemetery where the pavement ended on the remote road.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/09/21...r-executed-for-dragging-texas-man/
 
canoecarrier
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:35 am

The media reports 7 of the 9 witnesses recanted.

The state presented 34 witnesses against Davis, not 9. Among the witnesses who did not recant their testimony against Davis were 3 members of the Air Force, who saw the shooting from their van in the Burger King drive-in lane. The airman saw the murder clearly enough to positively identify Davis as the shooter explained on cross-examination, "You don't forget someone that stands over and shoots someone." All 3 of the witnesses above are African-American.

Quoting rottenray (Reply 8):
Georgia, as well as many other southern states in the US, tend to stamp "solved" on cases involving the murder of police officers when the prime suspect is black.

7 of the 12 jurors were black.

The same night he shot the security guard he shot a guy in the face.
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474218
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:24 am

How come the anti-death penalty crowd were not outside the Huntsville, Texas prison when Lawrence Russel Brewer executed today?

They seem to have selective indignation!
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:40 am

22-years since his trial, 22-years to restate his case. Enough is enough.

One court after another have rejected the pleadings his attorneys have made while granting him 3 previous stays of execution.

Time to serve justice.
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GuitrThree
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:42 am

Well decision is in. His appeal is over. Execution will happen.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/...ional/main20109778.shtml?tag=stack
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canoecarrier
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:08 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):

One court after another have rejected the pleadings his attorneys have made while granting him 3 previous stays of execution.

12 courts heard this man's case and all of them upheld the verdict. The whole discussion about witnesses changing their story was dismissed by one judge as, "largely smoke and mirrors". It's not uncommon for defense lawyers to grill previous witnesses until they doubt themselves. That's why people who later recant aren't often believed.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
Time to serve justice.

Couldn't agree more. Some may think the fact we have the death penalty archaic but I and a majority of Americans think there are crimes committed that the perpetrator should never be allowed to walk the streets again. Murderers do and have escaped prison.

Quoting 474218 (Reply 12):
They seem to have selective indignation

Maybe they should find a more sympathetic murderer to use as their cause celeb. When my wife was a nursing student she toured a maximum security prison as part of her curriculum with her nursing class that had a death row. I asked, and was allowed, to go with her. Until you walk those halls and see the inside of a maximum security prison you don't fully understand why there are walls between them and us.
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fxramper
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:13 am

Disgusting Anderson Cooper is still trolling for his next Katrina Story in the form of this execution. CNN just interrupted a commercial to break back into the announcement of this murderer's death. What a joke.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 10):
Give the guy the benefit of the doubt.

Give the dead cop a second chance. Oh wait you can't. USSC said no appeal. Dead man walking.
 
TheCommodore
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:15 am

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 2):
They all claim to be honest once behind the bars.
Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 7):
No kidding. I read through a bunch of the last words Texas death row inmates made when we had a thread about it a while back. Apparently, no one on death row ever did anything wrong and it was all a conspiracy.

Perhaps you both need to read through this little article.
And then come back and tell us what you think ?

http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/i...-facts/death-penalty-and-innocence
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jcs17
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:15 am

No. Georgia is going to execute a guilty man.

Look, the same people who are protesting and trying to block this execution are the same people who tried to block Ted Kazcynski's (butchered it... I know) death. They don't care about facts, they care about their political agenda.

For some reason there was a noticeable lack of protest when Tim McVeigh got the needle. And note, Tim McVeigh deserved the needle two hundred plus times over. These are the same people who send letters to Mumia, a convicted cop-killer. Unfortunately, Mumia probably will never meet his maker prematurely due to the liberal makeup of Pennsylvania these days. However, this cop-killer in Georgia will.
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:22 am

Quoting fxramper (Reply 16):

Disgusting Anderson Cooper

What's your problem with Anderson Cooper? I find him to be very human in his approach. Can you show me what's disgusting about him?

As for the execution...I'm not sure what to think. There seems to be doubt but on the other hand he did have over 20 years to prove his innocence. Not sure if this is a failing of the court system, or if a hell of a lot of people around the world just got hoodwinked. Really not sure.
 
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:24 am

I don't get the whole death penalty culture, simply because having observed human nature long enough, almost everyone who tries to either escape their problems or go out in a blaze of glory (obviously mentally ill and evil people respectively), do so by KILLING themselves, not by locking themselves up in a closet and throwing away the key, just asking to be fed 3 a day for the rest of time.

Then again, I don't get abortion and how people can take it so lightly. Well, I'm just the kind of person that will escort a mosquito outside in the summer rather than swating at it. Unless killing is for eating, or self-defense, I just don't get it.
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flymia
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:36 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 12):
How come the anti-death penalty crowd were not outside the Huntsville, Texas prison when Lawrence Russel Brewer executed today?

They seem to have selective indignation!


Maybe they are respectful and not looking for trouble.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
One court after another have rejected the pleadings his attorneys have made while granting him 3 previous stays of execution.


Exactly! Way too many Judges have over and over see this man is guilty. Not ONE, not ONE people saw this man innocent. This should say something to everyone. Now that it seems that every Judge of the Supreme Court voted to deny the appeal that is enough for me. Judges don't see emotion they see the facts and the law. The facts and the law state hs is guilty.

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 15):
12 courts heard this man's case and all of them upheld the verdict. The whole discussion about witnesses changing their story was dismissed by one judge as, "largely smoke and mirrors". It's not uncommon for defense lawyers to grill previous witnesses until they doubt themselves. That's why people who later recant aren't often believed.


Exactly. Was going over things like this in class a few days ago. This type of thing usually does not work and usually does not have much merit behind it anyway.

The Supreme Court is good enough for me that is for sure.

[Edited 2011-09-21 20:46:04]
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redflyer
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:46 am

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 17):
Perhaps you both need to read through this little article.
And then come back and tell us what you think ?

I just read it. What struck me was this line:

Quote:
Since 1973, over 130 people have been released from death rows throughout the country...

Sounds to me like the system works. They were not put to death now, were they? More to the point, is this discussion about a man's innocence, or is it about the death penalty? If it's about a man's innocence then we should be looking at the justice system of every country, including your own flag. I've no doubt there are innocent men languishing in your jails after being convicted of a crime they did not commit. On the other hand, if this is a discussion about the death penalty then let's set aside the emotions and have an intelligent discussion.

Mr. Davis was convicted of a heinous crime 22 years ago and his case has been reviewed by multiple higher courts and his conviction has been upheld each time. Just because a bunch of emotional, anti-death penalty celebrities claim he's innocent in the media does not change the facts of his crime or the outcome of his trial, any more than a a bunch of emotional, pro-death penalty crime victims' claim that he's guilty in the media would change the facts of his innocence or the outcome of his trial.

I'm actually opposed to the death penalty, which is a punishment. But I am NOT opposed to our judicial system, which is one of the fairest and most stout in the world. I hate it when people subvert the judicial system when they don't like the punishment. If you don't like the punishment then elect representatives that will change the laws. But don't indict the entire system just because you don't like the punishment. And this case WAS subverted in the media (as usual).

Quoting 474218 (Reply 12):
How come the anti-death penalty crowd were not outside the Huntsville, Texas prison when Lawrence Russel Brewer executed today?

They seem to have selective indignation!

   Best post of this entire thread.
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N867DA
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:48 am

I think this is of higher value than the initial emotional outburst.

[Edited 2011-09-21 21:05:14]
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flymia
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:49 am

Quoting redflyer (Reply 22):
I'm actually opposed to the death penalty, which is a punishment. But I am NOT opposed to our judicial system, which is one of the fairest and most stout in the world. I hate it when people subvert the judicial system when they don't like the punishment. If you don't like the punishment then elect representatives that will change the laws. But don't indict the entire system just because you don't like the punishment. And this case WAS subverted in the media (as usual).

Best post I seen on Anet non-av in a long time!

Quoting redflyer (Reply 22):
Best post of this entire thread.

I would say the worst. (See above)
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N867DA
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:55 am

Quoting redflyer (Reply 22):
Sounds to me like the system works. They were not put to death now, were they?

People have been executed and then exonerated years later. The justice system doesn't always work. The justice system is very stable, but its accuracy can never be known. I admire the stability and permanence of it, but it is very incapable of condemning those who should be free and liberating those who are in fact guilty.

I am still not certain about the moral and ethical issues relating to capital punishment, but I believe that the burden of proof for performing it should be much higher than what I saw tonight. If anyone deserves it, people like Brian Nichols are the ones who should be strapped to gurneys.
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474218
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:06 am

Some years ago there was an execution in Trinidad of a drug trafficker/murderer. Amnesty International, the UK Privy Council and all the other anti-death penalty groups wanted tried to stop it but the execution was carried out. Then the body was buried in an unmarked grave inside the prison walls, so his family and friends would not make a martyr out of him. Sounds like real justice to me!
 
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2707200X
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:22 am

I wonder why the pro death penalty crowd is so damn cavalier about the death penalty. If so many stories have changed since the past how come their is no reconsideration of the case.

Quoting jcs17 (Reply 18):
They don't care about facts, they care about their political agenda.

So Rick Perry does not have a political agenda in the Todd Willingham case when Perry replaced a member of the Forensic Science Commision with a political ally Bradley to help speed up the case. Im sure the people at the Tea Party debate had no judgement when they where chearing and hollering when Gov Perry gleefuly admited that he has exicuted over 200 prisoners and he had not lost any sleep.

And unlike those politically minded losers who are protesting at executions Pick Perry is running for president.

Blood lust by any other measure is still blood lust.

[Edited 2011-09-21 21:23:40]

Though I am against the death penalty, I am not against people who believe in it, just those that are cavalier about it.


[Edited 2011-09-21 21:59:24]
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D L X
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:52 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 12):
How come the anti-death penalty crowd were not outside the Huntsville, Texas prison when Lawrence Russel Brewer executed today?

Because that a-hole, the guy that dragged a Black man by the back of his truck, is very obviously not the poster child you want to use to convince others to agree that the death penalty is bad.

It's an easy answer.

Now with that said, I have been very vocal to whomever will listen that both of these executions are showcases in barbarism.
 
StarAC17
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:52 am

Quoting Derico (Reply 20):

I don't get the whole death penalty culture, simply because having observed human nature long enough, almost everyone who tries to either escape their problems or go out in a blaze of glory (obviously mentally ill and evil people respectively), do so by KILLING themselves, not by locking themselves up in a closet and throwing away the key, just asking to be fed 3 a day for the rest of time.

Then again, I don't get abortion and how people can take it so lightly. Well, I'm just the kind of person that will escort a mosquito outside in the summer rather than swating at it. Unless killing is for eating, or self-defense, I just don't get it.

At least your consistent on that front. You will find that many who are against the right to choose in the case of abortion (no sane person supports is outright) are among the first to support the death penalty.

Its pretty simple really it's just another case of religious hypocrisy.

Also I disagree that anyone takes abortion lightly and it is usually a very difficult decision for the woman making it.
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canoecarrier
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:55 am

Quoting 2707200X (Reply 27):

I wonder why the pro death penalty crowd is so damn cavalier about the death penalty.

The OP asked "is Georgia going to execute an innocent man". My answer to that is "no". You want to make this a larger argument about your opinion on the death penalty open your own thread. You want to say the judiciary didn't their job look at my previous posts and point out where I'm wrong.

Quoting redflyer (Reply 22):
I'm actually opposed to the death penalty, which is a punishment. But I am NOT opposed to our judicial system, which is one of the fairest and most stout in the world.

I'm glad you're around. I have my own feelings about the death penalty, but the question tonight is an innocent man being executed? You have your own opinions about the punishment, as do I, but was the verdict wrong? I don't thing so.
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Derico
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:43 am

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 29):
At least your consistent on that front. You will find that many who are against the right to choose in the case of abortion (no sane person supports is outright) are among the first to support the death penalty.

Its pretty simple really it's just another case of religious hypocrisy.

Also I disagree that anyone takes abortion lightly and it is usually a very difficult decision for the woman making it.

Oh I know, and I am quite blunt about it too. I would dare to say I'm the most consistent person I know.

This debate happens in my country too, where abortion is illegal and there is no death penalty. I like the consistency of that policy, but many would like the death penalty because of what they see as a crime wave in the country (which has crime rates comparable to many developed nations). Yet those people loathe (and rightly so in my humble opinion), strongly dislike the micromanagement of certain aspects of the economy by government.

So I would take the argument a step further, as I have reasoned that there is absolutely no consistency in believing the government is incompetent to handle the economy (true), and simultaneously putting complete faith and trust in that same institution carrying out justice and punishment. How does that make sense.

I believe in little government involvement in private matters (except in 4 areas where it should be a public/private-government/citizen partnership), because they tend to be incompetent. For the same reason I woudn't trust that same government with the power of life and death.
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OA412
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:06 am

Honestly, the amount of sheer glee, and satisfaction that many of you show whenever someone is executed is embarrassing. We are supposedly a first-world nation, yet we practice a form of "justice" that has been abolished in every Western country, save for the US and Japan. Now, I have a very difficult time believing that the US and Japan are right, when the rest of the civilized world has decided that the death penalty is a barbaric, and archaic form of punishment.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
Time to serve justice.

  Is this Iran or the United States?

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 15):
Couldn't agree more. Some may think the fact we have the death penalty archaic but I and a majority of Americans think there are crimes committed that the perpetrator should never be allowed to walk the streets again. Murderers do and have escaped prison.

Of course it's archaic. Like I said above, take a look at a list of countries that still impose the death penalty. We stand with Libya, North Korea, Iran, Saudi Arabia, China, etc. in applying the death penalty. Are these really the sorts of countries we want to be compared to?

Quoting fxramper (Reply 16):
Disgusting Anderson Cooper is still trolling for his next Katrina Story in the form of this execution. CNN just interrupted a commercial to break back into the announcement of this murderer's death. What a joke.

 
Quoting jcs17 (Reply 18):
No. Georgia is going to execute a guilty man.

So you were at the scene of the crime? You watched him pull the trigger? 7 of the 9 witnesses who came forward to recant their stories are all lying?

Quoting D L X (Reply 28):
Now with that said, I have been very vocal to whomever will listen that both of these executions are showcases in barbarism.

  
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propilot83
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:08 am

Unbelievable, they executed an innocent man, well now the painful suffocating tormented wrath of devastating hell from GOD will befall those who are responsible, they will be caught off guard, they will be hit in a way in which they will perceive not!



  
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:59 am

Quoting OA412 (Reply 32):
Is this Iran or the United States?

Foreign nations would not have put up with the year after year of empty delay challenges.

This person had 22-years to appeal - a dozen courts, from local, to state to Federal all found his challenges without merit.

If only his victim - the police officer that was killed had been given the dozen extra opportunities to live.

Albeit with a long delay ultimately justice was carried out, and now life goes on.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
PanHAM
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:04 am

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 7):
So? You can get a murder conviction without a body, why should you need to find a gun?

simple answer - because the state has to prove that the defendant is guilty beyond reasonable doubt. Unfortunately, de facto, in the US the defendant has to prove that he is innocent.

The DA just has to convince a jury of laymen that he thinks the defendant is guilty, even if there is other evidence. For Troy Davis it is too late, Jens Soering is still rotting in a Virginia prison since over 25 years for a murder he did not do. But even if he did, 25 years is more than enough, especially when there is doubt and evidence. But that does not count in the US. The parole board should go behind bars, same for all who killed Troy davis last night.
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dragon-wings
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:26 am

Here is a very good question PIX news commentator Michael William Lebron (AKA Lionel) asks about the death penalty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ktElP6mLSY
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sebolino
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:26 am

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 2):
They all claim to be honest once behind the bars.

I just want to puke. This must be the most horrible comment possible. If he's innocent he will say it of course.

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 5):
If some of the new information is in any way credible, it certainly deserves another round of scrutiny. This would be a pretty big story if he's innocent. Imagine it. In jail for all of that time, then a minute from death and then he walks free!

Already done (by Clint Eastwood). And in real life, it already happened.

Quoting propilot83 (Reply 33):
Unbelievable, they executed an innocent man, well now the painful suffocating tormented wrath of devastating hell from GOD will befall those who are responsible, they will be caught off guard, they will be hit in a way in which they will perceive not!

Unfortunately, I think nothing will happen. I'm even not sure they will be ashamed.
 
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sebolino
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:00 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 35):
But that does not count in the US. The parole board should go behind bars, same for all who killed Troy davis last night.

Agreed. And the cops who made the "inquiry" should not be forgotten.
 
Springbok747
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:06 am

Please. Not this shit again. Really.

The guy had 22 years to prove his "innocence".
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PanHAM
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:54 am

In a country ruled by the law you don't have to prove your innocence, the state has to prove your guilt. If a majority of witnesses change their testimony than this is reasonable doubt.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
Springbok747
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:02 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 40):
In a country ruled by the law you don't have to prove your innocence, the state has to prove your guilt.

Well..looks like they did...didn't they? No innocent person is at the scene of two shootings in one night. End of story. Even if he didn't pull the trigger he is still culpable.
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sebolino
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:24 am

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 41):
Even if he didn't pull the trigger he is still culpable.

????????
 
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AirPacific747
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:26 am

Well I am just glad I don't live in a country where I can mistakenly be executed for a crime I didn't do. Errors do happen. Not saying whether this guy is guilty or not, but if there is the slightest of doubt, then the death penalty should not be an option.
 
474218
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:32 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 28):
Because that a-hole, the guy that dragged a Black man by the back of his truck, is very obviously not the poster child you want to use to convince others to agree that the death penalty is bad.

So are the anti-death penalty people saying: Who you are, how you committed murder and the race of your victim, should be considered when it comes to carrying out justice?

Don't get me wrong Brewer deserved to be executed as did Davis!
 
PanHAM
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:05 am

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 41):
Even if he didn't pull the trigger he is still culpable.

well, if you didn't pull the trigger you did not committ a murder, right? The fact that you are eventually a bystander does not make you a criminal. Otherwise one should be very careful to enter a 7/11 store or a gas station., you may end up in prison for the rest of your life.

You can argue whichever way you want, if there is a reasonable doubt, capital punishment cannot possibly be executed. I do not argue that the majority in some states want capital punishment. But that shpould be executed only if the person is proven guilty beyond doubt.
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474218
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:29 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 45):
well, if you didn't pull the trigger you did not committ a murder, right?

No!

If you aid or abet a crime you can also be found guilty. Example, you and a friend rob a liquor store, during the robbery your friend shoots the clerk, you will be charged with murder just like the person who pulled the trigger.

The case in Texas where the man was dragged to death behind a truck. Only one of the three was driving the truck, but they all were convicted of murder!
 
wn700driver
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:43 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 12):
How come the anti-death penalty crowd were not outside the Huntsville, Texas prison when Lawrence Russel Brewer executed today?

I was there. As were a few dozen others. Something you want to say?

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):

Time to serve justice.

There was no justice served in Georgia last night. However a brilliant display of american barbarism and shameless pandering to our lowest common denominators did indeed take place. And another in Texas of course.

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 15):
Couldn't agree more. Some may think the fact we have the death penalty archaic but I and a majority of Americans think there are crimes committed that the perpetrator should never be allowed to walk the streets again. Murderers do and have escaped prison.

You mean minority. Most states have outlawed or done away with this spastic and uncivilized behavior.

Quoting Derico (Reply 20):
I don't get the whole death penalty culture, simply because having observed human nature long enough, almost everyone who tries to either escape their problems or go out in a blaze of glory (obviously mentally ill and evil people respectively), do so by KILLING themselves, not by locking themselves up in a closet and throwing away the key, just asking to be fed 3 a day for the rest of time.

Then again, I don't get abortion and how people can take it so lightly. Well, I'm just the kind of person that will escort a mosquito outside in the summer rather than swating at it. Unless killing is for eating, or self-defense, I just don't get it.

Interesting point. I live in america and I do not get it (as the majority of us seem not to) either. It's an error prone throwback that unsurprisingly enough is really only supported on any mentionable scale in the Bible belt. Which is indeed odd, as these are also bastions of the pro-life crowd (which I do support, whenever, that is, they can remove their religious "convictions" from the debate).

But you are right. With regard to killing, american politics, on both ends, are deeply inconsistent, and I have never understood irrational need for that to be so.

Quoting redflyer (Reply 22):

Quoting 474218 (Reply 12):
How come the anti-death penalty crowd were not outside the Huntsville, Texas prison when Lawrence Russel Brewer executed today?

They seem to have selective indignation!

   Best post of this entire thread.

Given the obvious falseness of the claim, I would say it was the worst. But that's just because the facts of the matter dictated otherwise...

Quoting 2707200X (Reply 27):


I wonder why the pro death penalty crowd is so damn cavalier about the death penalty. If so many stories have changed since the past how come their is no reconsideration of the case.

Product of ignorance. And I'm not being snide or facetious about it either. Once one knows what actually goes on in our beloved system, one really does have to be of below average intelligence to support it. The "appeals" process set up in the few states that still enjoy murdering people is a lot less rigorous than most of these hawks understand. In fact, many layers of these appeals merely involve a rubber stamping procedure WRT any previous convictions, and most have no jurisdiction over the actual facts of the case.

Keeping in mind that there was A. no murder weapon for the crime in question, and B. only a jailhouse witness at the time of Troy Davis' murder left to substantiate that act, this case clearly failed to meet any kind of standards for this.
How does this happen? Because every one of the last few appeals dealt only with things like method of execution, and whether this man had already had any previous non-procedure based appeals. Since most of the witnesses recanted after said non-procedure based appeals, there was literally nothing that could be done, save changing the law, that would have saved Troy's life. This is why america is so awful. In some states, we can know a person is not guilty of a crime, but nothing other than standing by and shamelessly kowtowing to the victim's family (and the victim's exploitation crowd while we're at it) can be done. For men like Troy Davis, I would imagine it was a lot being strapped to an out of fuel plane somewhere over the ocean. You may not know just when, but you know sooner or later you're going down and there's not a thing that can be done about it. Just awful.

Quoting 474218 (Reply 44):

So are the anti-death penalty people saying: Who you are, how you committed murder and the race of your victim, should be considered when it comes to carrying out justice?

No. The anti Death Penalty crowd does not believe anybody should be murdered in this (or any other fashion). This goes for, white supremicists, conservative bible thumping crime hawks, pedophiles, ousted dictators, or any other group of social "undesirables" you can think of. It doesn't matter if the victim was a white male bent on world domination, a baby, an illegal alien, minority, homosexual, or a professional bank robber.

I didn't fly down to IAH and drive back up to Huntsville yesterday to protest an impending murder, (or any of the other 10 Texas has committed this year) because I thought that man was innocent or that I believed in the same ridiculous things he did (and I'm willing to bet that Brewer was a pro-death type too by the way). Being against the death penalty is not a matter of intellectual convenience the way being for it obviously is. Against means Against and that's the end of it.

I protest as many of these murders as I can, because I believe that the more attention is shined on this insanity, the fast the inevitiable will occur, and we as americans can store this trend in the same place as we do other shameful memories like slavery and segregation. In the past, where it belongs.


In case I haven't made myself clear by the way, yes Georgia most certainly murdered a man who did NOT meet the minimum standards we claim to abide by in this country. Innocent, as in actually innocent? I don't know. I've been following this case very closely for about a year now, and from what I know, guilt was indeed possible, but not at all probable, let alone certain.
Base not your happiness on the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. No Hope = No Fear
 
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:54 am

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 39):
The guy had 22 years to prove his "innocence".

No...the state had 22 years to prove guilt beyond all reasonable doubt. No defendant has to prove their innocence in a court of law.

Has an innocent man been executed..who knows. But the possibilty that an innocent man MAY have been executed should be abhorrent to any civilsed society.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 32):
We stand with Libya, North Korea, Iran, Saudi Arabia, China, etc. in applying the death penalty. Are these really the sorts of countries we want to be compared to?

When you add the Death Penalty to Guantanamo Bay the USA is currently not doing particularly well on the human rights front and association with these nations is entirely justified.
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sebolino
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RE: Is Georgia Going To Execute A Innocent Man?

Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:59 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 46):
No!

If you aid or abet a crime you can also be found guilty. Example, you and a friend rob a liquor store, during the robbery your friend shoots the clerk, you will be charged with murder just like the person who pulled the trigger.

Ok, so in this case, why didn't the police try to catch the guy who pulled the trigger ?? (instead of forcing witnesses to lie).

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