A 'Fruit' product made its way into my life! My ex-colleagues took me out to an excellent dinner and surprised me with an iPad as a going-away gift. I was very touched but intimidated enough that I haven't opened it. I may pluck up my courage and just plug it in to charge it up. I tell you, I am not proud at having being drawn into the Dark Side.

Any beginners tips? Any apps I should download once I find out how to do it? Will I have to buy a new hipster wardrobe and glasses to go with it?

I don't know about the apps, but yes, you're going to have to do your best to look as cool as the product. You may even need to get a VW of some kind to secure that position. Best of Luck.

I hear they make a good paperweight  

Now the serious part, they are excellent for travelling or when you don't need a laptop. Plenty of good apps. Depends on what you like? Angry Birds like everyone else??

Hey can it run Flash games? Oh wait.....  

Quoting comorin (Thread starter): I haven't opened it.

Or you could sell it!
$500 to $900 is quite nice and in no way a bad thing or reflecting badly on the gift you colleagues gave you. If you already have what you need media consumption-wise and this is just a "toy" then why not?

Tugg

Sell it on eBay or Craigslist.

Imo you'll get more out of it by selling than keeping it around simply as a fancy calculator, internet browser or music player.

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 1): I don't know about the apps, but yes, you're going to have to do your best to look as cool as the product. You may even need to get a VW of some kind to secure that position. Best of Luck.

and I used to scorn witheringly at the Fruit crowd on the subway...

Quoting tugger (Reply 4): Or you could sell it!

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5): Sell it on eBay or Craigslist.

Quoting joffie (Reply 2): I hear they make a good paperweight

Now, now! I will open the package tonight, hopefully it won't be like opening the Ark of the Covenant...

I've disposed off most of my stuff awaiting my move, wonder if I can use it to watch TV shows?

Who knows, at this rate I may even get to become a disciple of the Dark Lord himself (Hint: Santa's last name).

Quoting comorin (Thread starter): A 'Fruit' product made its way into my life! My ex-colleagues took me out to an excellent dinner and surprised me with an iPad as a going-away gift. I was very touched but intimidated enough that I haven't opened it. I may pluck up my courage and just plug it in to charge it up. I tell you, I am not proud at having being drawn into the Dark Side.

Quoting comorin (Reply 6): and I used to scorn witheringly at the Fruit crowd on the subway...

Ah, but here's the thing: you didn't spend your own hard-earned cash to pay for it. Frankly, since I have no use for one, I'd not go buy one, but I wouldn't kick myself for having it by simply having it handed to me.

Quoting comorin (Thread starter): A 'Fruit' product made its way into my life!

Quoting comorin (Thread starter): Any beginners tips?

I hear they make great apple juice:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAl28d6tbko

http://youtu.be/USiaeXzYkOE

 

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5): Sell it on eBay or Craigslist. Imo you'll get more out of it by selling than keeping it around simply as a fancy calculator, internet browser or music player.

Agreed. I just sold my beloved Nikon D90 and as much as an epic camera that it was and even considering it was my graduation gift from my parents no less, I rarely ever used it, so I let it go to a better home on ebay and got $1K out of it that I will put towards stuff I will actually use.

[Edited 2011-09-23 21:48:46]

I would eBay it.   

It's interesting, to note from this thread, that the thing that most stigmatizes Apple is, in fact, its customers' enthusiasm.

I, for my part, remain a staunch proponent of the Macintosh OS, for the crushingly simple reason that it is stable and Windows isn't. But then there are the gung-ho Apple users - the people who let Steve Jobs decide for them what's cool and what they want.

I noticed this about my fellow Apple users (I've been using Macintosh since 1987) and I don't relish the thought of being as mentally enslaved as they. In fact I will be getting a shmartphone in the coming months and I am not at all averse to the notion of going with Android instead of iPhone. To hear myself talking that way in the mid-1990's was unthinkable; my solidarity with then-beleaguered Apple was unshakable; but today...Apple doesn't need anyone's help (except maybe the humility purveyors').

So - here I am; a devout Macintosh user because I objectively believe that is the superior personal computing product; a non-iPhone user because I objectively believe in Android's open software development (and the freedom that comes from not needing your creations to be blessed by the App Store).

What I am saying is, it is possible to own, use, and even enjoy an Apple product, without "joining the Dark Side" and being one of of Stevie's Minions.

Noooo...comorin..you've gone over to the fruit side...

Quoting comorin (Reply 6): Now, now! I will open the package tonight, hopefully it won't be like opening the Ark of the Covenant...

Don't worry - they've scaled down display brightness in order to improve battery life...!   

Success! I opened the box this morning in a state of purity, like a Kamikaze pilot before his mission.

First I held the perfectly packaged white box in my hands and meditated on its form for a few minutes. Then I paused and took a sip of coffee.

I peeled off the plastic wrapping which was perfect - no kinks or creases or those ugly joins from heat sealing. And there lay The Fruit, and I touched it, much like my forbears touched the Monolith. We have come a long way, my friends...

The Pad lay in utter simplicity, as I wondered what to do next with this paragon of user friendliness. I lifted it out of the box, and on a little slip of paper were instructions in a tiny font on how to get started. I was a little taken aback, as I thought there would just be a big red button that said "'Press Me" and that would suffice.

Worn out emotionally now, I will resume bringing the Fruit to life a little later after a nap.

Thanks for your support, guys. Will update later....

I'll buy it for $20. I'll even pay shipping  

Quoting comorin (Thread starter): Any beginners tips? Any apps I should download once I find out how to do it? Will I have to buy a new hipster wardrobe and glasses to go with it?

It easy once you have an Itunes account you just enter the info in the store on the Ipad or Itunes and it automatically downloads the app. Also when you sync it to your computer its good to use the "Transfer Purchases" to back up your apps to your computer. It automatically will generate a statement for you and charge your credit card if you download an app that costs money.

Most of my apps on my I touch similar are usually non-fun utilities and I don't really use the thing to play games its usually music or podcasts with facebook and e-mail used when I have the wi-fi.

Apps I would recommend are Facebook, you're bank(s) (most likely they have an app), currency, sirline apps, a sports app to give you live scores. Also look around at the games and you can get things like Tetris (not free), air hockey, labyrinth etc.

Quoting Airstud (Reply 10): I, for my part, remain a staunch proponent of the Macintosh OS, for the crushingly simple reason that it is stable and Windows isn't. But then there are the gung-ho Apple users - the people who let Steve Jobs decide for them what's cool and what they want.

I might be gifted but I find Windows very stable if you aren't reckless with it, with 7 and Vista leading the way. Apple's OS benefit from set hardware that is compatible and a good chunk of the stability issues with Windows are because of incompatible drivers.

I wish Apple would make their OS'es compatible with all PC's but then they would face the same issues as MS with countless hardware combinations.

Quoting comorin (Reply 13): I peeled off the plastic wrapping which was perfect - no kinks or creases or those ugly joins from heat sealing. And there lay The Fruit, and I touched it, much like my forbears touched the Monolith. We have come a long way, my friends...

Tsch tsch.....
The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.” So He banished Adam from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken.   

Quoting comorin (Thread starter): Any beginners tips? Any apps I should download once I find out how to do it? Will I have to buy a new hipster wardrobe and glasses to go with it?

You'll need a stack of black mock turtlenecks and one of those gizmos that leave you with a two day stubble.

On the positive side, you won't feel so self-conscious drinking a Cosmo any more!  

Quoting comorin (Reply 13): Success! I opened the box this morning in a state of purity, like a Kamikaze pilot before his mission. First I held the perfectly packaged white box in my hands and meditated on its form for a few minutes. Then I paused and took a sip of coffee. I peeled off the plastic wrapping which was perfect - no kinks or creases or those ugly joins from heat sealing. And there lay The Fruit, and I touched it, much like my forbears touched the Monolith. We have come a long way, my friends... The Pad lay in utter simplicity, as I wondered what to do next with this paragon of user friendliness. I lifted it out of the box, and on a little slip of paper were instructions in a tiny font on how to get started. I was a little taken aback, as I thought there would just be a big red button that said "'Press Me" and that would suffice. Worn out emotionally now, I will resume bringing the Fruit to life a little later after a nap. Thanks for your support, guys. Will update later....

Now this is just frightening!   But hey enjoy, the iPad is a superb product!

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 15): It easy once you have an Itunes account you just enter the info in the store on the Ipad or Itunes

Sadly for me this is the entire deal breaker and I can't buy Apple. Only one place, a mandatory place, to get stuff. And there is no other choice offered, you are locked in. I just can't support that in any way. Itunes is pretty much like WalMart, it owns its space, sets the pace for other stores (online or real world), and lots of people shop there. But for me I dislike the environments they create.

Ahh well, fortunately there are lots of other excellent choices out there.

Tugg

If you decide to trade it off, (as I did with my gifted eyepad...), I recommend the ASUS Transformer w/ detachable keyboard. It runs on Android.

I never considered a tablet but my new one has proven quite useful...for more than surfing and games, (though it does those things very well).

It has expandable memory, 2 usb ports, hdmi port and the keyboard has a built in battery which doubles battery life.

I found the eyepad a disappointment...the ASUS, I like.

Quoting tugger (Reply 18): Sadly for me this is the entire deal breaker and I can't buy Apple. Only one place, a mandatory place, to get stuff. And there is no other choice offered, you are locked in.

That applies only to software (apps).

You can get music, videos and all kinds of other data from wherever you like. No limitation there.

And effectively with all the theoretical choice elsewhere, you get more higher-quality software in the App Store than anywhere else, with no malware risk so far (after "jailbreaking" the device you can have total freedom with software as well - including, however, all the risks that come with that). So it's mainly the question what your priorities are.

Thanks for all the replies, guys! I did manage to sync it and power it up as the 'getting started' leaflet in the world's tiniest font said. I took the tour, and I was very impressed by the polished feel of the included software.

My next step was to make the 3G connection with my wireless router, and this is where I got stumped. Fruit recognized my wireless network, but could not connect to it. With a PC, I can whiz around with settings and what not but with the Fruit I have nowhere to turn to, It either works or it doesn't. Does this mean that for the rest of my life I will not be able to connect to my wireless network? Hmm....

More to come...

Quoting Revelation (Reply 17): You'll need a stack of black mock turtlenecks and one of those gizmos that leave you with a two day stubble. On the positive side, you won't feel so self-conscious drinking a Cosmo any more!

Ha ha! It's hard to drink a Cosmo in a black robe and a helmet...

Congrats on the gift - your friends must have held you in high regard.

The iPad has a very wide range of personalities, depending on you interests and needs. You can look through the AppStore to see the types of apps available. Very impressive in sue areas, like Medical.

Best part of the AppStore is that you can learn with free apps. Many are "lite" versions of larger versions you pay for, but you still have a wide range of ideas to look at.

Add in the camera for stills and movies, the iTunes app for your music, GPS, etc.

Quoting tugger (Reply 18): Only one place, a mandatory place, to get stuff. And there is no other choice offered, you are locked in.

Only one place to get the apps, but syncing will move photos & music.

Quoting tugger (Reply 18): . I just can't support that in any way.

Even if you only download the Free stuff?

Quoting comorin (Reply 21): My next step was to make the 3G connection with my wireless router, and this is where I got stumped

Your 3G is for when you are aware from WIFi. You need to get a data account for that. Use the WiFi to connect with your home internet.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 22): Quoting comorin (Reply 21): My next step was to make the 3G connection with my wireless router, and this is where I got stumped Your 3G is for when you are aware from WIFi. You need to get a data account for that. Use the WiFi to connect with your home internet.

Oops - I meant Wireless - I don't have 3G.

Thank you for your post! Appreciate your good wishes and look forward to enjoying the product.

Success! Not to be a dweeb but this is my first post from my iPad! Thanks y'all!

Quoting Klaus (Reply 20): And effectively with all the theoretical choice elsewhere, you get more higher-quality software in the App Store than anywhere else

And what makes App Store software better?

Quoting Klaus (Reply 20): with no malware risk so far

Wasn't there an incident about 6 months ago where people who bought a certain iPhone app had their iTunes account hijacked?

Quoting comorin (Reply 21): My next step was to make the 3G connection with my wireless router, and this is where I got stumped. Fruit recognized my wireless network, but could not connect to it. With a PC, I can whiz around with settings and what not but with the Fruit I have nowhere to turn to, It either works or it doesn't. Does this mean that for the rest of my life I will not be able to connect to my wireless network? Hmm....

Next to the network name there's a blue button pointing to the right. Touching that brings you to the WiFi network configuration page where you've got the same options as in a desktop OS.

Both my iPhone and my iPad have been rather unproblematic getting into WiFi networks so far.

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 25): And what makes App Store software better?

Every app (and every update to any app) is examined for violations of the App Store rules – and such violations include crashing, non-functional features, deceptive functionalities, violations of user privacy, violations of the user interface guidelines, suspicious or illegal accesses to system functionalities, copyright violations, misuse of trademarks (rampant with Android trojans), misrepresentation of the app's functionality, excessive battery power consumption, compromising of proper system operation, low app quality (crappy design and/or technical implementation) and a bunch of others.

As a result, apps which actually make it through the approval process into the App Store generally have a rather decent quality level with relatively few exceptions. Most apps are paid for up front but are then free of advertising. Malware is practically nonexistent and attempts to upload malware are prosecuted (among other things by a lifelong ban of the developer and of all his apps).

iOS loads only software which is properly signed with approved keys; Malware has a rather difficult time breaking into a system protected like that.

There's a world of difference to some of the other stores (notably for Android) where criminals can simply upload cracked and re-packaged copies of genuine apps with malware piggybacked to them directly and without any oversight. And as a consequence, the mobile situation particularly on Android resembles Windows in the 1990s, when the malware tsunami began to roll in earnest (Symbian is also hit by quite a bit of malware, but the platform is on its last legs as we speak).

But even legitimate apps on Android generally lack the polish and general quality of iOS apps for some of the same reasons: It's too easy to get into the app market even with unfinished, rushed or negligently tacked-together apps; Most commercial apps use advertising instead of a regular purchase price – not least because app piracy is a big problem there.

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 25): Wasn't there an incident about 6 months ago where people who bought a certain iPhone app had their iTunes account hijacked?

If you believe that, where's the link?

Quoting Klaus (Reply 27): If you believe that, where's the link?

See this little thing at the end of a sentence:? Its called a "question mark" normally when someone uses a "question mark" at the end of their sentence, they're asking a "question". Just like I was.   

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 28): See this little thing at the end of a sentence:? Its called a "question mark" normally when someone uses a "question mark" at the end of their sentence, they're asking a "question". Just like I was.

So just innuendo, no substantiation.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 26):

I deserved that, kind Sir.  

Quoting Klaus (Reply 27): Next to the network name there's a blue button pointing to the right. Touching that brings you to the WiFi network configuration page where you've got the same options as in a desktop OS.

I just have two options - on my PC there are tabs and tabs of stuff I can fiddle with - so I just rebooted my router and everyone is happy.

Day 1 Synopsis:

It started off kind of awesome, especially for a guy who is PC-centric. Of late I have been very interested in Software User Interfaces so this was a big deal for me.

Here are my thoughts:

1. The 'customer delight' (MBA term) starts with opening the package, which is state of the art. I personally think it is a bit overdone and dainty, and it is also not friendly for older folk and vision impaired people. There are all these tabs you have to pull and it gets a bit fussy.

2. I like the fact that you don'thave to charge the thing for 24 hours before you can do anything with it.

3. I spent an hour doing two-finger touch stuff and flicking pages away and then I got bored with it.

4. Got really excited when I saw 'Garage Band' as a free app, but then it VANISHED! Grrr....

5. The iPad is a brilliant marketing tool - everything has to be bought! Hulu is free on my laptop but not on my iPad. Angry Birds comes with commercials. Agreed there is no thing as a free lunch, but I have to get used to the nickel and dime milieu of the Fruit world.

6. I think the iPhone was a revolutionary product, but still don't get the iPad.

7. My old ThinkPad with Firefox loads and renders a lot faster than the iPad - why?

8. Need a stylus or something to take notes and draw - miss having a mouse or pointer.

9. Like the battery life, and the iPad cover is a cool piece of engineering.

10. My desktop on my laptop is starting to look really ugly now...

11. No adblock?

12. Now to look for a spreadsheet and wp app...more bucks?

Back to more testing....

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 11): Noooo...comorin..you've gone over to the fruit side...

The Force is strong, my young friend....but I am well trained....

Quoting tugger (Reply 18): Sadly for me this is the entire deal breaker and I can't buy Apple. Only one place, a mandatory place, to get stuff. And there is no other choice offered, you are locked in. I just can't support that in any way. Itunes is pretty much like WalMart, it owns its space, sets the pace for other stores (online or real world), and lots of people shop there. But for me I dislike the environments they create.

This is where Apple runs the risk of being anti-competitive as they choose the apps that can be sold on the store which hurts the consumer and the developer of said app that doesn't get approved by Apple. It might be their right but if big bad MS did this then I bet they would be slapped with anti-trust lawsuits.

Can someone explain how apps get selected to be sold in the store?

Quoting Klaus (Reply 20): You can get music, videos and all kinds of other data from wherever you like. No limitation there.

   you can get good freeware converters that will change DivX movies and other formats to Ipad compatible formats, they just take a while.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 8):

Fly....where do you find these things?!????

Quoting comorin (Reply 30): I just have two options - on my PC there are tabs and tabs of stuff I can fiddle with - so I just rebooted my router and everyone is happy.

Well, the actual network options are the same: DHCP or static IP and all that. Excellent that it works now (manual configuration is rarely necessary).

Quoting comorin (Reply 30): 4. Got really excited when I saw 'Garage Band' as a free app, but then it VANISHED! Grrr....

That's probably been a misunderstanding.

Garage Band for Mac is bundled with every new Mac (you're in fact paying for it with the hardware). It's still a commercial product, however. If you're not buying a new Mac but still want it, it costs $14.99 in the Mac App Store.

Garage Band for iOS (iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch) has always been $4.99.

Both are extremely cheap for the polished products you get (the large number of high-quality instruments alone is worth much more than that).

Quoting comorin (Reply 30): 5. The iPad is a brilliant marketing tool - everything has to be bought! Hulu is free on my laptop but not on my iPad. Angry Birds comes with commercials. Agreed there is no thing as a free lunch, but I have to get used to the nickel and dime milieu of the Fruit world.

There is very little high-quality software on any platform that's actually free. Apps with a purchase price of $0 are either paid for through advertising (all Google software, including most commercial apps on Android, many individual applications), through separate revenue streams (airline apps, Hulu Plus etc.) or are actually done by enthusiasts basically for themselves.

The problem is that software quality costs money (even if it's just the time someone spends on his hobby).

The choice I've got is basically between insisting on getting everything for free and being left with a limited selection of lower-quality and often ad-infested applications, or being ready to pay for quality and having a wide selection of high-quality software.

There is no third option, really, as much as I might want that.

Quoting comorin (Reply 30): 6. I think the iPhone was a revolutionary product, but still don't get the iPad.

Browsing the web is quite a bit more convenient on the larger display. And there are many apps (Garage Band is a good example!) which really thrive on the big screen.

iOS devices are first and foremost app machines – they are not intended to be used just with the default apps. And many apps make a huge difference on the iPad.

Quoting comorin (Reply 30): 7. My old ThinkPad with Firefox loads and renders a lot faster than the iPad - why?

What's "a lot", exactly?

My much slower iPad 1 loads and renders most pages within a low single-digit number of seconds; The actual content is usually present within less than a second while the side bars may take a bit longer, depending on the site.

The ARM CPUs in mobile devices use only miniscule amounts of battery power, but are also much less powerful than x86 desktop or notebook CPUs. The gap in performance is narrowing (much to Intel's concern), but it's still substantial at this point.

And the iPad 2 has just 512MB RAM (iPad 1: 256MB); Laptops typically have multiple gigabytes of RAM installed.

Given these differences, the actual performance of the mobile devices is quite impressive, and they are still/already fully usable in practice.

Quoting comorin (Reply 30): 8. Need a stylus or something to take notes and draw

There are some pens which can be used with the iPad, but the touch screen is very much designed for human fingers instead of styluses and pens, and it shows. Drawing apps exist and some are quite good, apparently, but this is definitely a design tradeoff.

Writing, however, is much easier and faster with the onscreen keyboard, particularly in landscape format. Handwriting recognition could never be that fast and precise at the same time. There's a standard "Notes" app for that.

Quoting comorin (Reply 30): miss having a mouse or pointer.

That's primarily a matter of getting used to. When you're accustomed to the abstraction of moving a mouse pointer on the screen indirectly through a separate input device, abandoning that abstraction and directly touching the content takes some acclimatization again. But in the end it's more direct and – if it's done right – more convenient than the mouse pointer metaphor.

Quoting comorin (Reply 30): 11. No adblock?

iCab mobile has that and much more. (At this point it is somewhat slower than mobile Safari, but it's got lots of added features.)

Quoting comorin (Reply 30): 12. Now to look for a spreadsheet and wp app...more bucks?

As on the desktop, there are several free apps for both purposes, but Numbers and Pages from Apple are probably the most polished ones ($9.99 each). External reviews may help you selecting the best one for your needs.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 31): This is where Apple runs the risk of being anti-competitive as they choose the apps that can be sold on the store which hurts the consumer and the developer of said app that doesn't get approved by Apple. It might be their right but if big bad MS did this then I bet they would be slapped with anti-trust lawsuits.

This gets dangerous when there's an actual monopoly position (Apple doesn't have that – see Android et al) and beyond that when that monopoly position is abused to coerce the user and prevent competitors from entering the market (there are several Google and Microsoft apps even in Apple's App Store).

They have also been relatively even-handed about the approval process (more above and below).

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 31): Can someone explain how apps get selected to be sold in the store?

Every app which doesn't violate the App Store rules can expect to be admitted. But every app (and even every update to every app) is explicitly vetted before admission, and sometimes there has been controversy about the application of these rules. But even in such controversial cases they've sometimes revised their decisions (in most cases the developer just fixes the offending feature and the app is approved on re-submission).

It is definitely not that Apple randomly selects only a few apps at their pleasure – it is indeed above all a quality and security assurance process, and it really shows in the result.

An earlier version of the App Store rules has been mirrored here:
http://stadium.weblogsinc.com/engadget/files/app-store-guidelines.pdf

Some of them are certainly debatable, but most are pretty reasonable and straightforward, I would say.

When you're looking at the very different concepts behind the Apple App Store and the Google Apps Marketplace and at the actual results on either side, there is a pretty clear connection between the rules (or their absence, as the case may be) and what the users actually get in the end.

Apple (as usual) has made the more restrictive and (for them) more expensive choices, but the reward is a much higher level of quality, practically no malware problems and very high usage by the users of the platform.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 29): So just innuendo, no substantiation.

                                       Hold on I think I got it out of my system... no wait                         


Klaus, buddy, it's called asking a question. I know thats verboten (I figured you might understand what THAT means) when discussing Apple, but last I checked you were neither a moderator here nor the Apple thought police.

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 25): Wasn't there an incident about 6 months ago where people who bought a certain iPhone app had their iTunes account hijacked?

http://www.pcworld.com/article/20061...le_400_itunes_accounts_hacked.html
Apple now admits 400 iTunes accounts were hacked and used by a Vietnamese developer, Thuat Nguyen, to push his iPhone apps to best seller status over the weekend. But here is the zinger; Apple is saying it was no big deal. Four hundred accounts equals 0.0003 percent of the over 150 million iTunes account holders, Apple points out.

http://thenextweb.com/apple/2010/07/04/app-store-hacked/

The follow up to that story is here:

http://thenextweb.com/apple/2010/07/04/appstore-hack-itunes/

interesting that in the story it appears that Apple has posted a job listing:
•Apple posts job listing for a Fraud Prevention Specialist.
which would indicate that either they didn't have one before this, or the person doing the job wasn't up to the task and got sacked.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-20009658-37.html

Despite roaring sales for its new products, Apple has been getting a bit bruised lately. Among other things, the company's most-recent knock 'em dead gadget, theiPhone 4, has had reception problems; the company's response to the issue has been widely lampooned in the press; Apple faces a challenge from Google's Android operating system in the mobile arena; its policy regarding submissions to theiPhone App Store and its refusal to make the iPhone andiPad compatible with Adobe's widespread Flash software have been seen by some as a sign of control-freak tendencies; and the company's media policies have reportedly captured the notice of antitrust authorities.

It's a system, that's it, not perfect by any stretch.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 29): So just innuendo, no substantiation.

No, it was a legitimate question, but rather than honestly answer it.........

Klaus, thanks for taking the time to respond to my post in some detail. I agree, to accomplish so much with what is essentially a smartphone chip is really impressive!

I have to see how I can integrate the iPad into my daily life so that it doesn't just sit around as a toy:

1. Can I take it with me to meetings to take notes? - I may still need my regular paper notepad.
2. Can I use it as an e-reader? Yes, though the Kindle is easier on the eyes.
3. Portable TV - I can actually watch TV from my cable provider (Time Warner) and control my DVR - amazing!

So my conclusion is that it doesn't replace my laptop, but is a 'nice to have' device on the go. I am really impressed with the hardware wizardry, but the jury is still out on usability...more to follow as I get to know the product.

Thanks again.

Quoting dxing (Reply 35): http://www.pcworld.com/article/20061...le_400_itunes_accounts_hacked.html Apple now admits 400 iTunes accounts were hacked and used by a Vietnamese developer, Thuat Nguyen, to push his iPhone apps to best seller status over the weekend. But here is the zinger; Apple is saying it was no big deal. Four hundred accounts equals 0.0003 percent of the over 150 million iTunes account holders, Apple points out.

Thank you. Just as I thought. Natrually, Klaus will soon tell us that it was indeed no big deal.

As usual, some very good tech info, mixed in with a few provocative statements.

Here's my $0.02.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 33): There is very little high-quality software on any platform that's actually free. Apps with a purchase price of $0 are either paid for through advertising (all Google software, including most commercial apps on Android, many individual applications), through separate revenue streams (airline apps, Hulu Plus etc.) or are actually done by enthusiasts basically for themselves. The problem is that software quality costs money (even if it's just the time someone spends on his hobby). The choice I've got is basically between insisting on getting everything for free and being left with a limited selection of lower-quality and often ad-infested applications, or being ready to pay for quality and having a wide selection of high-quality software.

I doubt many would agree with your basic assertion that free software is low-quality (or even lower-quality) software.

I think most find that free software or sponsored software is perfectly adequate, and in many cases it's the best available.

And if it's not perfectly adequate, then it gets deleted.

I've found quite good software for every purpose I intended for the Android phone I recently purchased, and some for purposes I never intended, and have not spent a single cent for any of it.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 33): Every app which doesn't violate the App Store rules can expect to be admitted. But every app (and even every update to every app) is explicitly vetted before admission, and sometimes there has been controversy about the application of these rules. But even in such controversial cases they've sometimes revised their decisions (in most cases the developer just fixes the offending feature and the app is approved on re-submission).

And if some central authority screened every TV show or press article for compliance to some standard there's a good chance quality would rise, but I don't want to be a part of that system either.

And I'll point out that Apple has a huge profit motivation to keep itself as the sole source for all software for its products.

You seem to only report the (debatable) benefits of the app store without pointing out the most obvious down sides to it.

It's quite ironic to me to see the company that came up with the famous 1984 commercial is now selling the environment with the most pervasive big brother type controls on it, yet the lemmings are still lining up.

Quoting Airstud (Reply 32): Fly....where do you find these things?!????

 

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 34): Klaus, buddy, it's called asking a question. I know thats verboten (I figured you might understand what THAT means) when discussing Apple, but last I checked you were neither a moderator here nor the Apple thought police.

The way you've been acting in here, it came across as pure innuendo without substantiation.

And the actual events you seem to have been referring to had nothing to do with what you've claimed:

Quoting dxing (Reply 35): http://www.pcworld.com/article/20061...le_400_itunes_accounts_hacked.html Apple now admits 400 iTunes accounts were hacked and used by a Vietnamese developer, Thuat Nguyen, to push his iPhone apps to best seller status over the weekend. But here is the zinger; Apple is saying it was no big deal. Four hundred accounts equals 0.0003 percent of the over 150 million iTunes account holders, Apple points out.

The actual hack was not perpetrated through an app or even through iOS at all. The accounts were compromised through other means – possibly through plain old Windows malware which grabbed the account data from the Windows iTunes installation. Or by harvesting email addresses from spam listings and simply trying to guess the passwords in the (often justified) expectation that very many people use very weak passwords.

The purpose was to buy the perpetrator's iOS app to rack up its charts position there (with the app itself apparently not being laced with malware).

The original hack was a big deal, since the iTunes accounts may not have been the only valuable data the attackers retrieved. The misuse of the accounts itself was easily corrected and insofar not a big deal, however, since Apple simply refunded the purchases made by the attackers.

Quoting dxing (Reply 35): It's a system, that's it, not perfect by any stretch.

Indeed not. No nontrivial system can be "perfect".

But in designing such a system there are thousands of compromises to make. And choosing good compromises instead of easy ones in as many of these cases as possible is the whole point, and a real challenge.

Quoting comorin (Reply 36): Klaus, thanks for taking the time to respond to my post in some detail.

You're welcome.

In the end the only thing that matters is whether you find it useful and worth keeping around. What anybody else thinks is irrelevant.

Quoting comorin (Reply 36): 1. Can I take it with me to meetings to take notes? - I may still need my regular paper notepad.

That depends. I can write on the landscape keyboard almost as quickly as on a mechanical desktop keyboard. Whether it is practical for your needs is something you'll have to find out for yourself. But I have stopped taking my laptop with me for most meetings.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 38): I doubt many would agree with your basic assertion that free software is low-quality (or even lower-quality) software.

So where's the free quality-equivalent to Photoshop? Indesign? Garage Band? Final Cut? Logic? Tom Tom / Navigon?
And for thousands of other commercial applications?

Quoting Revelation (Reply 38): I think most find that free software or sponsored software is perfectly adequate, and in many cases it's the best available.

You can get by with free software in many less critical cases, but the more challenging your demands are, the more you need software that's developed to higher standards than most free software is.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 38): I've found quite good software for every purpose I intended for the Android phone I recently purchased, and some for purposes I never intended, and have not spent a single cent for any of it.

Excellent if you're not missing anything.

When I'm looking at what I've got on my iPhone and iPad, however, it would massively reduce their capabilities and the ease of use if I had to remove the commercially developed (and paid) apps.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 38): And if some central authority screened every TV show or press article for compliance to some standard there's a good chance quality would rise, but I don't want to be a part of that system either.

Sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about.

Content is completely uncensored under iOS. I load, view and listen to content from whatever source I happen to fancy.

Only apps which come with specific content are subject to some limitations, mainly excluding pornography and highly controversial political messages.

Browsers and other apps which provide use of and access to general content (including the above!) have no restrictions beyond being marked in the Store as such.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 38): And I'll point out that Apple has a huge profit motivation to keep itself as the sole source for all software for its products.

Again, you don't know what you're talking about.

Apple is operating both the App Store and the iTunes Store without drawing profits from them, nor is that their intention (which they explicitly stated several times).

In reality, relatively cheap apps and content are just tools to promote hardware sales. It's exactly the other way around than you believe.

And as I've explained above, there is no exclusivity on content. You can get your content from wherever you want and use it under iOS!

You are quite simply misinformed.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 38): You seem to only report the (debatable) benefits of the app store without pointing out the most obvious down sides to it.

There's never been an additional need for me to point out the obvious limitations – all I need to do is to qualify the claims so eagerly made by yourself and others and to correct obvious mistakes.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 38): It's quite ironic to me to see the company that came up with the famous 1984 commercial is now selling the environment with the most pervasive big brother type controls on it, yet the lemmings are still lining up.

If any of that were true, I would be among the first to ditch iOS.

Fact is that Apple has an interest in keeping me as a paying customer, satisfied with their products and content with my privacy being respected, so I'll make additonal, profitable purchases from them by buying later generations of their hardware.

On the other side, Google is an advertising firm whose customers are not the users of Android, but the ad buyers Google is selling the users' privacy to (in aggregated form). Android isn't "free". It's just paid for in a different way!

My personal preference is paying with my own actual money instead (and not even a lot of that) and having a direct customer relationship with the manufacturer, with my satisfaction in the focus of their self-interest. Maybe it's just me, but I think that's a healthier relationship.

If you are not paying for it, you're not the customer; you're the product being sold.

[Edited 2011-09-25 09:15:54]

Quoting Klaus (Reply 41): You can get by with free software in many less critical cases, but the more challenging your demands are, the more you need software that's developed to higher standards than most free software is.

Sure, but most of us don't need Photoshop to get what we want from our computers and find that Google Nav is perfectly adequate vs Tom Tom etc.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 41): Sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about.

I think you're viewing the question too narrowly. Even if Apple is just screening for quality, I prefer to not have that screening at all, just like I prefer to not have some external agent do quality (not content) screening on TV shows or news articles.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 41): Apple is operating both the App Store and the iTunes Store without drawing profits from them, nor is that their intention (which they explicitly stated several times).

Yes I was wrong and I now stand corrected.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 41): Google is an advertising firm whose customers are not the users of Android, but the ad buyers Google is selling the users' privacy to (in aggregated form). Android isn't "free". It's just paid for in a different way!

I agree with this. Unfortunately surrendering privacy is part of everyday internet life even for Apple users, unless of course you turn off cookies, anonymize your IP address, etc etc etc.

Klaus, how do you reconcile your view to the fact that we consume high quality goods like TV shows in exchange for eyeball (ad) time? We get free tools like Google and Bing also based on that model? I think that the internet generation is just used to freeware. Actually, Apple should give away iPads and make up for it from app and iTune sales! Like giving away the razor and selling blades?

Quoting comorin (Reply 43): Klaus, how do you reconcile your view to the fact that we consume high quality goods like TV shows in exchange for eyeball (ad) time?

It's still annoying, isn't it?

Other content is just available for purchase, either in bulk (for instance by getting HBO) and/or retail (such as content being sold in single episodes via iTunes or other comparable stores).

I'm not saying that the ad-financed model was evil incarnate and that it should be abolished. With hardware and software I just like it a lot less than I do even on TV.

Everybody's individual tolerance threshold is different, and that people's ideas of privacy vary wildly is clear from facebook's success in general and some people's positively exhibitionist behaviour there and elsewhere on the one hand and the fact that you couldn't pay me to expose myself there on the other.

Quoting comorin (Reply 43): We get free tools like Google and Bing also based on that model? I think that the internet generation is just used to freeware.

Given the success of the App Store and of Apple in general, more and more people seem to appreciate getting good value for paying appropriate prices just as much as they appreciate ad-supported news and forum sites.

I certainly wouldn't want to pay membership fees on any random news site some forum post was pointing to.

(Plus, of course, there are ad blockers. But I only employ those on very vew sites which I have no interest supporting or whose ads are particularly intrusive.)

[EDIT] I think it might have to do with people viewing hardware and software as something permanent they actually want to own vs. media content being something that's mostly perceived as something transient that is being consumed.

The things I want to own should not be marred by ad intrusion. With some of the things I consume that is acceptable. [/EDIT]

Quoting comorin (Reply 43): Actually, Apple should give away iPads and make up for it from app and iTune sales! Like giving away the razor and selling blades?

Many people seem to think that it was smart to try manipulating people that way. But such attempts have all failed to date. Most people rather prefer a clean deal, paying for what they want to own.

Mobile phones are something different again: Most people seem to prefer buying their phones on a loan (they are not "subsidized" – it's simply a loan being paid off).

[Edited 2011-09-25 10:33:47]

Quoting Revelation (Reply 42): Sure, but most of us don't need Photoshop to get what we want from our computers and find that Google Nav is perfectly adequate vs Tom Tom etc.

Sure, and in that case it's a good opportunity to squeeze down your cost to the absolute minimum if that is your primary priority.

I was just refuting the claim that free software was generally as good or better than commercial software. That's just not the case (even though there are individual examples, however rare).

Quoting Revelation (Reply 42): I think you're viewing the question too narrowly. Even if Apple is just screening for quality, I prefer to not have that screening at all,

I have no objections whatsoever to someone having that perfectly valid preference.

I just have objections to the consequences of a completely unsupervised market as far as my own devices are concerned.

It's effectively the difference between a third-world bazaar where you can get anything for cheap, including lots of stuff that's illegal, dangerous or both, but very few quality items and no warranties whatsoever, and a high-grade mall complete with good security, dedicated product quality oversight, warranties and legal recourse.

Either preference is perfectly valid – you get very different purchasing experiences and very different products in these places, though. I wouldn't recommend the former to most people, but the latter may also be too expensive and possibly too boring for others as well.

The thing is that you can't just have the advantages of both without making any tradeoffs.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 42): just like I prefer to not have some external agent do quality (not content) screening on TV shows or news articles.

That's not a factor under iOS as explained above. I can rely on the apps being safe and functional; Where I choose to go with those apps is my own decision which Apple neither knows about nor limits me in any way. And that is a combination which I like.

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 25): And what makes App Store software better?

Several reasons not previously listed.

Apple has invested in developer tools and has been generous in making them available.

Apple provided a consistent platform for developers. How many Android OEMs have tossed in they own stuff, making it necessary for developers to tweak their apps.

Apple provides the AppStore, giving the small, new developer their exposure in the market. And Apple handles all the delivery and accounting for the developer.

Quoting comorin (Reply 30): Agreed there is no thing as a free lunch, but I have to get used to the nickel and dime milieu of the Fruit world.

You can find free apps. Start with your bank and insurance companies. Some apps will carry commercials, with commercial free apps available for purchase. I actually like these as they let you look at an app before deciding to spend money on them.

Quoting comorin (Reply 30): I think the iPhone was a revolutionary product, but still don't get the iPad.

Take the phone out of the iPhone. Make it a bit larger. You have an iPad. The iPad can do some things the iPhone can't, but both run iOS. That is why Steve Jobs was able to say "You already know how to use it."

Quoting comorin (Reply 30): My desktop on my laptop is starting to look really ugly now...

Maybe it's time to look at the iMac? Or MacBook Air? After iOS 5 comes out the Mac line is going to look pretty interesting with the syncing, iCloud, etc.

Quoting comorin (Reply 30): Now to look for a spreadsheet and wp app...more bucks?

Check out Numbers and Pages. Part of the iWork suite (Keynote being the 3rd app) and that might work fine for you.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 38): It's quite ironic to me to see the company that came up with the famous 1984 commercial is now selling the environment with the most pervasive big brother type controls on it, yet the lemmings are still lining up.

Look for the number of developers focused on the iOS platform. And look for the consumers focused on the iOS platform. That is a lot different than the 80s when the PC received almost instant acceptance in the corporate world because it was from IBM. Was DOS really "better" than PC/M? Doubt it.