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ozark1
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:11 pm

I watched it for about 20 minutes and turned it off. A few things were good---the terminal looked like the real one did and they were pretty accurate about the 707. But they lost me with the pilots. There is no way that those guys would have been as young as they were. They acted and looked like fighter pilots. The elegance of the interior of the aircraft was very nicely done and their uniforms looked good. There is no way they would have worn their jackets for takeoff strapped in to the jumpseat.
I just don't see a story line here and most likely will not watch it again. But the realism was accomplished very well in terms of the aircraft and the sets.
 
georgiaame
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:02 pm

I caught 15 minutes or so. Curmudgeon that I am, and showing my age:

1. I was very impressed at how environmentally friendly the engines were on takeoff (and cruise). Not a hint of smoke or soot what so ever! The real McCoy was not like that. Smokers everyone of them. I was impressed, however, that they did use the black thingy/noise suppressor on the engines. The first PanAm jets had them.

2. VERY wide isles, esp in First.

3. Not that I was actually ever in one, but if I'm not mistaken, the First Class "lounge", the rounded seating area was between the front galley and Row 1, not between Y and F. I don't believe they lasted very long, but what a touch of elegance at the start of the Jet Age.

4. The Pan Am building in Midtown wasn't built in 1959 or so, when the show takes place. And it didn't offer helicopter service until later. (Which was ultimately shut down after one of the helicopters crashed on top of the building.) Oh, there would eventually be regularly scheduled helicopter service between the PanAM building and JFK. That is JFK, not Idlewild.

5. Very nice terminal at Idlewild! The circular new building, just torn down, didn't look anything like that. The new terminal opened around 1960 (PanAm introduced jet service in October 1958) so prior to that boarding those jets was from a staircase, not a jet way. PanAm also boarded from the rear door not the front, at least initially. The PanAM terminal (T3?) that just came down was designed for the jets to pull their noses through a high tech air door, into the building. High pressure air blew down from the ceiling, keeping the cold out, and the warm in, without the use of solid walls. Passengers never had to leave the comfort of the terminal environment to enter the aircraft. Alas, that went the way of all flesh very quickly Very impressive, but unless the women used a lot of hair spray to keep the high coifs in place, they were a mess upon boarding.

They are showing the fine side of PanAm. To be fair to the historical record, and our beloved moderators rarely are, might I suggest for your edification, you google "Pan American Airways Intercontinental Hotel Jerusalem". PanAm had a very ugly side to their story, that no one talks about.
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Stretch 8
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:25 pm

If it's only going to be about the too-young captain, FO and stews screwing in phony depictions of Paris and Rome, I am already done. Prediction: it won't survive for an entire season. The French stew has a great smile.
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:26 pm

I enjoyed it and got to watch a show sitting next to my wife, instead of Sunday night football. She enjoyed the characters, whereas I kept looking at the aircraft details and thought overall they did a nice job for a TV budget pilot.
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:30 pm

1.What kind of jetway was that last night? I thought they would be covered.

2. Loved the rotundra, come on Delta, save the rotondra.

3. That first class aisle was wider than a A320 aisle.

4. Whats with the young pilots hurtling down the runway near rotate speeds and then all of a sudden looking at each other and smiling for a Kodak moment. I don't need you guys looking at each other and smiling, I need you to rotate the aircraft and make sure of a positive rate of climb.
 
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Moose135
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:39 pm

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 51):
The Pan Am building in Midtown wasn't built in 1959 or so, when the show takes place.

The show is set in 1963. The Pan Am building opened on March 7, 1963.
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Aloha717200
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:04 pm

I watched the show, and liked it well enough. I'll probably stick with it, but I too felt that the captain was far too young for this. I also didn't like the habit ABC has of always having very loud ambient noise all the time. It's ok for a show to have quiet moments, really.

I can also appreciate that the show was actually trying to be accurate. That's more than even some big budget hollywood movies attempt to do.

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 51):
The PanAM terminal (T3?) that just came down

Terminal 3 has been torn down? I hadn't heard that they already started this process. Do you have a link? I couldn't find anything to suggest that T3 has already been demolished.
 
eastern747
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:41 pm

I thought the show was pretty good considering it is a TV show and not a documentary. I had several thoughts:
-I believe the lounge was in the front of the aircraft, across from the F/C galley
-In a scene showing the F/A's boarding the aircraft, the wall on the front side indicated storage compartments, which would have been impossible because the front lav would have been there.
-My impression was this was not the first 707 tranatlantic flight, but the first with this new clipper.
-Service for first class passengers would have been from the forward galley.

However camera angles, lighting probably had to be considered. I also remember hats and jackets were taken off after departure....I think.
 
michman
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:51 pm

Quoting moose135 (Reply 55):
The show is set in 1963. The Pan Am building opened on March 7, 1963.

Yes, but the Heliport service to JFK did not start until Dec 21, 1965. The 1963 movie "Come Fly With Me" had a 4 person crew in the cockpit on the 707 (with both a Flight Engineer and Navigator). The TV show only had a Flight Engineer. Which was correct on Pan Am?

[Edited 2011-09-26 08:52:17]

[Edited 2011-09-26 08:52:53]
 
lychemsa
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:11 pm

Some parts I enjoyed as it brought back memories from the 1960s. Being an air hostess was indeed glamorous in those days and they were super friendly. As a kid I flew on a PAN AM DC-8 alone from London to NYC. I was taken to the plane by a very attractive tall blonde air hostess. During the flight she kept checking up on me. However she called me "honey" which annoyed me.

Some parts of the show are a little silly. I will still watch it but change channels back and forth if it gets too boring.
 
citationjet
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:13 pm

Quoting ModernArt (Reply 30):
and another called Braniff,

Not sure of your definition of "flying abroad", but Braniff only flew to South America in the 1960's. Braniff didn't start flights to Europe until March 18, 1978 with DFW to Gatwick 747 non-stop service.



[Edited 2011-09-26 09:18:50]
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,73G,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773,788.
 
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beau222
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:39 pm

I enjoyed the show. Yes there were several things that if you took the show as a documentary were incorrect but I am coming into the show with expectations like "Love Boat" with several small stories in the show. CGI was faintly familiar with FS but the terminal I thought was fantastic. I was especially intrigued with the open catwalks into the doors, was not even aware that those really existed, how cool would that be to have in this day. The whole spy scenario is different but plausible considering the FA's had open travel options back then.
 
washingtonian
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:55 pm

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 25):
I remember vividly that catwalk onto the aircraft. It was great seeing that.

Which one?

Quoting ozark1 (Reply 50):
the terminal looked like the real one did and they were pretty accurate about the 707.

Was boarding open-air for the first few years after the WorldPort opened??

Quoting william (Reply 54):
2. Loved the rotundra, come on Delta, save the rotondra.

If only it was as bright and airy and gorgeous as it was on TV last night!!
 
citationjet
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:30 pm

I noticed that none of the passengers smoked. I remember the days when the flight attendants handed out free cigarettes and everyone could light up at 37,000 ft while standing over the center wing fuel tank.
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,73G,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773,788.
 
flymia
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:56 pm

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 21):
Is there any way you could find a link for the rest of us? Or film it yourself and post to youtube or something?! Sorry to ask this, but it would be awesome if the rest of us could see it!

Sure, here is one of the links: http://www.local10.com/video/29284507/index.html
There may be more on that site, just search Pan Am.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 43):
Having a 65 year old pilot would clearly take him out of the running for having a romantic involvement with any of the stewardesses, and he's obviously got something going with Bridgette... who just happens to be a British spy.

You mean 59 year old 
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Rdh3e
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:56 pm

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 43):
we've got two stewardesses acting as spies, one for the CIA and one for MI6

I believe they were both working for the CIA with MI6 as their liason, no?

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 51):
might I suggest for your edification, you google "Pan American Airways Intercontinental Hotel Jerusalem"

Tried, looked through 2 pages with no results except for hotels. Can you provide a link?
 
stlgph
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:11 pm

come on now - the most major blunder -- the show is set in 1963. on a summer night, a car drove past the Cort Theater where "Camelot" was playing. "Camelot" played the Majestic and closed early January 1963. just sayin  
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Aeri28
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:28 pm

I liked it.. It's a television show, not a Steven Spielberg production. I'm surprised nobody picked up the Pan Am logo was not on the seat buckles.

Quoting ghifty (Reply 36):
The show was surprisingly accurate, though I find it comical that the show ended with the PAA stewardesses boarding their next flight at Idlewild, when they should still have been in Rome.

I did not take this as them literally returning from Rome, but going off on their next adventure. (the little girl admiring them at the end clearly seemed to be at the Pan Am NY terminal.)

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 43):

I think what some people here are forgetting is that this is a network TV drama. It is not a documentary, it is not a show about the history of Pan Am. It is a human drama with the 1960's and Pan Am as a backdrop.

Having a 65 year old pilot would clearly take him out of the running for having a romantic involvement with any of the stewardesses, and he's obviously got something going with Bridgette... who just happens to be a British spy.

On the other hand, I think some others here are giving the show short shrift by calling it "Desperate Stewardesses" - this was a pilot, which naturally serves as a character introduction episode, but even already there are quite a few historical references flying around that are clearly going to be part of the plot moving forward. I mean, we've got the Bay of Pigs not just being mentioned but actually shown, we've got two stewardesses acting as spies, one for the CIA and one for MI6, and we've got all sorts of Cold War references (both spoken and acted). This is not just going to be Desperate Housewives set in the air, unless we find out this season on Desperate Housewives that two of the residents of Wisteria Lane have really been spies all along and their entire relationship has been a sham.

This show is going to be, as I said in the earlier thread, a combination romance/Cold War spy thriller.

There is nothing more to add. This is a pefect post IMO.
 
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modernArt
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:58 pm

Quoting CitationJet (Reply 60):
Not sure of your definition of "flying abroad",

Flying to South America is flying abroad.
 
highflier92660
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:43 pm

This show is an unapologetic chick-flick from ABC. Pan Am is probably going to revolve around relationships, shopping sprees in Paris and the various guys sitting in First Class willing to spend obscene amounts of money taking the stewardesses out on dates. For anyone who's systolic will rise when a Wright 3350, four-blade-prop equipped DC-7B is mistaken for a Douglas DC-6, please don't tune in. Refrain from shouting at the TV historical minutia like the fact that the real Pan Am had a sizable fleet of JT3D powered -321Bs and Cs by 1963; the CGI Boeing 707s with the organ-pipe JT4s look real cool on TV. Ditto for the Idlewild terminal that looks so pristine and litter free it could be a sterile room to manufacture inter-planetary space probes.

I'm also riveted by the mid-century "stuff" from automobiles to architecture in the first show. What really irks me is the composition of the flight crew. In Up In The Air with George Clooney, actor Sam Elliott played an American Airlines chief pilot who looked old enough to have known C.R. Smith in his prime. Conversely these pilots on Pan Am don't look qualified to push a Beech 1900D from Tampa to Key West.

Oh well, perhaps the aviation side of the show gets better as the season progresses.
 
xdlx
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:26 pm

In defense of the Young Capt. First Inagural for PA NONSTOP JFK-LHR happened in 59.
If the episode is based in 1963, it is very posible the young lad would have been on the left seat of the 707 4 years after its
introduction. Remember PA ordered 20 707 this could have been delivery # 16 or 18.
 
Lucky727
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:28 pm

For all the people trashing the CGI, here's a link, and some amazing before & after shots, showing just how complex this was:

http://www.fxguide.com/featured/pan-am-retro-green-screen-world/

...considering the time & budget constraints, I think they did an amazing job. People are entitled to not like it, but to trash the story, the CGI, and nit-pick every detail of a show that acutally tried to get it right (for a change), is inappropriate.

Personally, I really enjoyed it, and will keep watching!

L727
··· [·] oooooooo [·] oooo oo ooooo [·] ooooooooooooooooooo [·]
 
727LOVER
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:42 pm

What were they using to board the plane at IDL? I thought the original Worldport had boarding bridges.  
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
JoeCanuck
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:17 pm

Quoting BlueJuice (Reply 37):

From the screenshot, one glaring error I see is the nav lights on the wings are reversed...red is supposed to be on the left wing.
What the...?
 
displane
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:31 pm

My question is:

Is it worth watching live or do you DVR/internet watch it? Here, it comes on at the same time as CSI: Miami and football if the game is extra long.
 
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longhauler
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:35 pm

Quoting Aeri28 (Reply 67):
I'm surprised nobody picked up the Pan Am logo was not on the seat buckles.

Good catch.

Not only that, the metal to metal seat belts were not installed until around 1965. In 1963 (looking at an old Pan Am B707/DC-8 safety card) the B707 would have been equipped with metal to fabric seat belts. Also, on the F/A jump-seat, the seat belts, (which incidentally were metal to metal) had buckles about twice as large as what was pictured.

All in all, I thought the authenticity was impressive. Far better than 99% of the aviation related movies I have seen.
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rwy04lga
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:41 pm

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 35):
You know, watching this show, I wish airlines would be more like this today

And I wish airfares were the way they were in 1963  
Quoting lychemsa (Reply 59):
As a kid I flew on a PAN AM DC-8 alone from London to NYC

I, as a UMNR on a DC-8 from PIK.

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 62):
Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 25):I remember vividly that catwalk onto the aircraft. It was great seeing that.

Which one?

See below

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 72):
What were they using to board the plane at IDL? I thought the original Worldport had boarding bridges

What they stepped off of when stepping onto the plane. Nope...those catwalks... Iremember them vividlt.
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Tugger
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:49 pm

Quoting xdlx (Reply 70):
In defense of the Young Capt. First Inagural for PA NONSTOP JFK-LHR happened in 59.
If the episode is based in 1963, it is very posible the young lad would have been on the left seat of the 707 4 years after its
introduction. Remember PA ordered 20 707 this could have been delivery # 16 or 18.

OK, so here is my question: Just how old were the Capt's, F/O's, and Eng's (and Nav's) back then anyway?
Per ALPA's website, pilots of that time could very well be young:

Quote:
The jet boom (1965–1968)

People like Juan Trippe of Pan Am and Howard Hughes of TWA had no intention of inaugurating a pilot shortage when they began buying jets in the late 1950s. But these whisper-quiet magic carpets caught on quickly with a newly affluent flying public, beginning an era of glamorous travel, with Sinatra crooning "Come Fly With Me" in the background. The airlines hired pilots as fast as they ordered jets. United famously hired zero-time college graduates and paid for their training—from scratch!
http://www.alpa.org/portals/alpa/mag...zine/2001/Feb2001_ShortHistory.htm

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GDB
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:50 pm

Quoting ghifty (Reply 41):
They did not even try to emulate Mad Men, and if they did it completely went under my radar. Mad Men is a show that on the outside, looks like nothing greater than the normal house-wife drama, but it has so many layers of intricacies (do not read as love triangles or romance) that it's not. Pan Am is just straight up Desperate Stewardesses.

We are supposed to be getting Pan Am over here later this year.

Trouble is, comparing these sorts of shows to Mad Men is unfair, that is a very particular kind of series, not only in it's detail but it's pacing and atmosphere, (which would bar it from being commissioned by a major US terrestrial - or is that 'legacy' network).
The pacing of MM does not bother me, in fact it's nice to be treated as a fully sentient adult rather than like somebody out of Crank for a change.
Labelling every show set in the latter part of the 20th century as similar to the superb advertising drama raises false expectations, even a BBC made one, The Hour , set in the fledgling TV news of the mid 50's got labelled as being like Mad Men despite only being a 6 part season set in 1956 London.

As an aside, I didn't get the 'controversy' in the US about The Kennedy's , watched bits of it, not very good. But then was it really aimed at those with a decent knowledge of the subject, the era? Maybe not.

The best airline related TV drama I ever saw was one made in the UK nearly 30 years ago, fictional, about a recently ex RAF man's attempts to start an airline with some war surplus C-47's in Britain just after WW2, much praised but very expensive and so only lasted one series.
(Come to think of it, I might seek it out on-line!)

Edit; Found 'Airline' (Yorkshire TV 1982) on You Tube!

[Edited 2011-09-26 16:55:04]
 
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United_fan
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:21 am

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 76):
Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 72):
What were they using to board the plane at IDL? I thought the original Worldport had boarding bridges

What they stepped off of when stepping onto the plane. Nope...those catwalks... Iremember them vividlt.

Pretty slick!
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thrufru
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:23 am

I'd DVR it. It was a fun bit of fluff, but I saw a few bits of what I would consider to be nonstandard aviation goofs. The two that stood out the most to me were as follows: 1. At no airline I've flown for does the flying pilot confirm the takeoff clearance with tower, that's the job of the non-flying pilot. 2. When given a heading by ATC, it's in increments of 0 or 5. ATC would not instruct a pilot to turn to a heading of 019.

And about the viewing party in Miami, just try Googling the ABC station in Miami. They've probably got something on there website. Heck, I even saw a few people I know on that part.
 
SkyTeamTriStar
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:39 am

What was all the hype over? Thumbs down. Like everybody else, I was thrilled to watch it but the one thing about the show was the uniforms. I mean really, how young WAS the Capt on the show? 19 yrs old? Come on! And thats just ONE example!!
 
ghifty
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:23 am

Quoting GDB (Reply 78):
Trouble is, comparing these sorts of shows to Mad Men is unfair, that is a very particular kind of series, not only in it's detail but it's pacing and atmosphere, (which would bar it from being commissioned by a major US terrestrial - or is that 'legacy' network).
The pacing of MM does not bother me, in fact it's nice to be treated as a fully sentient adult rather than like somebody out of Crank for a change.

I totally get that, my original comment was meant to tell people to stop comparing MM to PA, because they're entirely different shows. On different networks, appealing to different audiences.

Just about every news outlet that mentions PA, has said "oh, it's like Mad Men in the air." My fellow journalists said her dad said "it's just like Mad Men."

1960's setting does not always equal Mad Men..

So, to clarify, my intent wasn't to compare the two.. it was to show my disregard for those who do compare the two..

Quoting Lucky727 (Reply 71):
For all the people trashing the CGI, here's a link, and some amazing before & after shots, showing just how complex this was:

http://www.fxguide.com/featured/pan-am-retro-green-screen-world/

...considering the time & budget constraints, I think they did an amazing job. People are entitled to not like it, but to trash the story, the CGI, and nit-pick every detail of a show that acutally tried to get it right (for a change), is inappropriate.

Excuse me? I'm sorry, I'm looking at the CGI from a very objective view. Pan Am has some of the worst CGI work I've seen in the past five years. Even ABC's pilot Lost episode looked better than what we got here.. complicated CGI work yes, but other networks have dealt with "more" complicated CGI work. Anyways, it's not like the green-screen thing is mind-blowing. I'd be willing to bet that half the shows you watch are filmed in front of a green-screen, you just never knew it because it's well executed.
Fly Delta (Wid)Jets

Comments made here reflect only my personal opinions.
 
L1011
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:40 am

I just watched the show tonight, since I recorded it on my VCR last night. (Yes, I still have and use a VCR.) I enjoyed the show, but I would have liked to see the coach cabin on the 707. You could only see it from a distance from the First Class section. The overhead racks and the passenger service units were most accurate. I would also like to have seen more of the DC-7B interior. I did get quick glimpses of the Northwest DC-9 seat covers, though.

Bob Bradley
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maxpower1954
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:53 am

I was curious, and looked at the historic CAB accident reports for Pan Am 707s, from 1959 to 1965. It helps verify the suspicion they were MUCH older. Of course, it's not a documentary. BTW, all Pan Am flights trans-atlantic carried navigators until later in the 1960s.

1959 - Loss of control at cruise altitude over mid-atlantic resulted in a near 30,000 foot dive. Actor Gene Kellly was on board.
Capt. 46 F/O 49 F/E 44 Nav 41

1959 - Emergency landing at IDL because of main gear failure after T/O - thousands of locals surrounded the 707 immediately after the crash landing.
Capt 44 F/O 42 F/E 47 Nav 37

1963 - Lightning strike over Elkton, MD resulted in wing explosion, all aboard lost.
Capt. 45 F/O 48 F/E 42

1964 - Crash landing at JFK
Capt 47 F/O 47, F/E 44, Nav 36

1965 - After T/O climb at SFO - Number 4 engine explosion resulted in the loss of the engine and 1/3 of the right wing - 33 feet! Safe emergency landing at Travis AFB.
Capt. 44 F/O 48 F/E 46 Nav 44

I'm seeing a pattern here...

[Edited 2011-09-26 22:11:46]

[Edited 2011-09-26 22:17:31]

[Edited 2011-09-26 22:20:12]
 
maxpower1954
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:08 am

In my non-sked days I flew with a guy who had started with Pan Am in 1957 and was furloughed in 1960. The introduction of the jets actually meant they had more pilots than they needed because of the massive increase in capacity and nearly double the speed of the pistons. A jet could do a trans-atlantic round trip a day; a DC-7 couldn't. He would have been recalled in 1964 but was flying for JAL by that time.

The pilot shortage didn't hit until 1965 with the escalation of the Vietnam War. The military was hanging on to their pilots, which meant the airlines had to hire much lower time guys than they were used to. The shortage was over by late 1967.

[Edited 2011-09-26 22:18:28]
 
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Moose135
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:05 am

Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 84):
I'm seeing a pattern here...

Yeah, bunch of old guys crashing airplanes...   
KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
 
maxpower1954
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:16 am

Ha Ha! And they were still ten years younger than the average age of a US Airways East pilot today (56.)

As their ad copy used to read "The World's Most Experienced Airline" ...the 1959 death dive was blamed on the autopilot.
The 1963 lightning strike was traced to a faulty fuel vent design. Only the 1964 hard landing was blamed on the crew, and the 1965 emergency landing with nearly 1/3 of the right wing burned off was superior airmanship right up there with Sully.

[Edited 2011-09-27 00:19:16]

[Edited 2011-09-27 00:22:13]
 
Squid
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:31 am

Quoting Highflier92660 (Reply 69):
Quoting Highflier92660 (Reply 69):
This show is an unapologetic chick-flick from ABC. Pan Am is probably going to revolve around relationships, shopping sprees in Paris and the various guys sitting in First Class willing to spend obscene amounts of money taking the stewardesses out on dates. For anyone who's systolic will rise when a Wright 3350, four-blade-prop equipped DC-7B is mistaken for a Douglas DC-6, please don't tune in. Refrain from shouting at the TV historical minutia like the fact that the real Pan Am had a sizable fleet of JT3D powered -321Bs and Cs by 1963; the CGI Boeing 707s with the organ-pipe JT4s look real cool on TV. Ditto for the Idlewild terminal that looks so pristine and litter free it could be a sterile room to manufacture inter-planetary space probes.

I'm also riveted by the mid-century "stuff" from automobiles to architecture in the first show. What really irks me is the composition of the flight crew. In Up In The Air with George Clooney, actor Sam Elliott played an American Airlines chief pilot who looked old enough to have known C.R. Smith in his prime. Conversely these pilots on Pan Am don't look qualified to push a Beech 1900D from Tampa to Key West.

Oh well, perhaps the aviation side of the show gets better as the season progresses.

     

Your post was great, I laughed so hard I spit my copenhagen out.
 
wukka
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:35 am

Quoting ozark1 (Reply 50):
But they lost me with the pilots. There is no way that those guys would have been as young as they were. They acted and looked like fighter pilots.

My now deceased uncle was a late to the game Korean war fighter pilot, and went quickly to a four stripe with Pan Am. He was quite young at the time. Since I can't ask him, I'm guessing no older than 28 as left seat. He flew jets from the start. Not sure how old these guys in the show are supposed to be, but none of them look younger than 25 or so. The engineer looked the senior, which makes sense.

I need to get my aunt on the horn and see what kind of memorabilia I can get my hands on. I'm curious myself. I just know that young pilots were not uncommon.
We can agree to disagree.
 
airport1970
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:05 am

Its going to be funny/awkward after next week's show for all the people who posted here that the show was so bad they turned it off or that the show was so bad they will NOT watch another episode...
 
airport1970
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:29 am

Quoting Lucky727 (Reply 71):
For all the people trashing the CGI,

I agree...
Trashing the CGI is very very petty.
Does it really make a difference?
 
Northwest727
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:12 pm

Like others said, they tried to be accurate, and I appreciated it. I could care less about the drama and chick-flik stuff (what I am sure 99% of American females want to watch-the show's demographics), I am just interested in the airline and historical stuff. My only gripe was the CGI, a bit lacking and in some cases, unnecessary.

Quoting Tassieboy (Reply 44):
I would LOVE to watch it but I don't think it will be aired in Australia

Not sure if you are "allowed" to watch it in Australia (copyright issues and other weird stuff, site may not let you watch it), but here is the link to ABC's online viewing.

http://www.hulu.com/pan-am
 
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longhauler
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:53 pm

Quoting Northwest727 (Reply 92):
Not sure if you are "allowed" to watch it in Australia (copyright issues and other weird stuff, site may not let you watch it), but here is the link to ABC's online viewing.

Apple iTunes also had it available to download for free.
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maxpower1954
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:01 pm

Quoting wukka (Reply 89):
My now deceased uncle was a late to the game Korean war fighter pilot, and went quickly to a four stripe with Pan Am. He was quite young at the time. Since I can't ask him, I'm guessing no older than 28 as left seat. He flew jets from the start. Not sure how old these guys in the show are supposed to be, but none of them look younger than 25 or so. The engineer looked the senior, which makes sense.

I need to get my aunt on the horn and see what kind of memorabilia I can get my hands on. I'm curious myself. I just know that young pilots were not uncommon.

It would be very interesting to know what year he started with PAA. I've been flying for the airlines for over 30 years, and I've never heard of anyone moving "quickly" to the left seat there. 15-20 years was more like it. Now, at National Airlines, which merged with PAA in 1980, it was very different. Captain in 4-5 years was not uncommon, from the mid-60s to the merger. Your uncle didn't happen to start with NA, did he?
 
mirrodie
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:19 pm

Quoting moose135 (Reply 11):
Quoting okie (Reply 10):
Oh my, Snowglobe spotted
I saw that - so obviously, someone from the show was checking out A.net to ensure accuracy!

That was great, wasn't it? Homage paid!

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 25):
I remember vividly that catwalk onto the aircraft. It was great seeing that.

Were the walkways to the 707s open like that at Idlewild?

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 35):
I wish airlines would be more like this today. I mean on domestic airlines, you're lucky if you get a soda for free. I could probably count on one hand the number of F/A's I have seen that actually look like they're enjoying their jobs. You don't generally see this today, unless you're travelling on an international carrier where the service and everything is better.

I would Love to see that but so many factors play into it. Take for example near the beginning where the FAs are getting weighed in and checked for girdles. I would LOVE to see that type of uniform strictness brought back. Am I suggesting weigh-ins?.....Well, sure! But that attention to detail is gone.

Quoting ghifty (Reply 36):
The CGI was absolutely terrible, Fringe's pilot episode had the graphics in this show beaten to a pulp

Fringe is good stuff. That said, they should ditch the CGI and find old Pan Am footage and clean it up. What would be worth watching!

Quoting CitationJet (Reply 63):
I noticed that none of the passengers smoked.

They did. the British op/russian mark did have a cigarette and ashtray at one point IIRC

Quoting Highflier92660 (Reply 69):
This show is an unapologetic chick-flick from ABC....

Oh well, perhaps the aviation side of the show gets better as the season progresses.

But of course, it is. How else would you expect to sell ratings? An hours worth of spotting footage?
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wukka
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:18 pm

Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 94):
It would be very interesting to know what year he started with PAA. I've been flying for the airlines for over 30 years, and I've never heard of anyone moving "quickly" to the left seat there. 15-20 years was more like it. Now, at National Airlines, which merged with PAA in 1980, it was very different. Captain in 4-5 years was not uncommon, from the mid-60s to the merger. Your uncle didn't happen to start with NA, did he?

I'm going to try to get a hold of my aunt and get some more specific details. She's quite old and fragile this day and age, but her memories should be a bit clearer than my recollections. I'd love to see if she's got some old memorabilia from those days. I may have to take a trip up to NE Ohio, but I'll see what I can find out and keep you posted.
We can agree to disagree.
 
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:50 pm

The catwalks were open like that because their was a roof over the loading area.

As I was told, originally T3 was supposed to have "docking ports" on it where the front of the plane up to just past L1 was supposed to go through a rubberized door all the way into the terminal. This door sealed out the outdoor environment and you just stepped right into the aircraft from the departure lounge.

For some reason this design was never used. I imagine things like pitot tubes might get damaged by the doors.
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DL_Mech
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:09 am

I

Quoting mirrodie (Reply 95):
Were the walkways to the 707s open like that at Idlewild?

Here's a picture:

http://psa188.tripod.com/photos/ia11642.JPG

This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
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longhauler
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RE: Who's Watching "Pan Am" Tonight On ABC?

Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:32 am

I wonder if there is not a trademark against the Clipper names of the old Pan American.

There never was a "Clipper Majestic", the B707-321, that had it really had a maiden flight in 1963, it would have been a B707-321B. And ... there never was a "Clipper Atlantis", the DC-7B, referred to as a DC-6.

I wonder why they chose not to use real Pan American names?
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