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jet72uk
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Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:09 am

In the UK national press today and radio. Plans to build a high speed rail link between the two are being seriously considered by ministers. The journey time would be 15 minutes at a cost of £5b. Thoughts...?
 
lhr380
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:12 am

Quoting jet72uk (Thread starter):

wow. Good news. Can take an hour on the coach sometimes.
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
CXfirst
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:15 am

Is there a real need? How many transfer passengers are there between the airports?

I could see it being a good investment if the future of LHR and LGW were planned accordingly. Such as have domestic flights from one and international from the other (or domestic and Europe from one and intercontinental from the other), and use this service as an airside transfer. If it takes only 15 minutes by train, and the trains ran every 5 minutes or so, then the transfer times wouldn't be a big deal. In essence, make the two airports into one big airport.

But, I don't see that happening.

-CXfirst
 
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larshjort
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:17 am

Great idea. It would make it easier for BA to use LGW as a second hub, especially if you would be able to check baggage through.

Quoting jet72uk (Thread starter):
The journey time would be 15 minutes at a cost of £5b. Thoughts

Can't see many passengers choosing that option if thats the ticket cost 
/Lars
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lhr380
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:19 am

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 2):
How many transfer passengers are there between the airports?

There are a fair few. People living that side of London will get the bus to leave from LHR and vis versa. People connect onto the BA services ex LHR and LGW on the same ticket a lot of the time as well. The buses I have been on are always busy.
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RWA380
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:20 am

Great idea, I have had many customers over the years, have to transir from one to the other, and it's a real pain. I think there used to be a helicopter service offered by B-Caledonian, and I dont know how it went, but cost was likely a factor in its demise, but a reasonable rate on a high speed ling, would be a winner I think.

London is only growing, and several carriers have operations at both airports, of course the most notible is BA. Maybe BA can sponser some of this, and have the trains in their colours. I think many pasengers will win in this adventure.

On a personal note, Our family did have to tranfer airports LGW to LHR one time, B-Cal LAX-YYC-LGW, then BA LHR-NBO-JNB, the return was JNB-LHR-LAX all BA, but even though we had the better part of a day on LON, it was still a pain, to make that transit with luggage.
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rutankrd
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:28 am

Don't hold your breath won't happen.

Such a line through the MOST NIMBY infected and tory voting constituencies - Ain't happening in my life time.

In any event unnecessary.

Best plan for UK PLC would be to allow BA to continue to acquire all abandoned slots at LHR and complete the consolidation all their long haul in one place.

Any new carriers especially long haul O and D carriers and I include US carriers should be encouraged to go with Gatwick financially because these carriers DON'T need to be at Heathrow at all.

For Instance Vietnam and the new Korean services.
These carriers London services are at least on the London end O and D markets. They both have other (Paris) locations to dump European transfer pax unto their alliance partner.
 
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Vasu
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:30 am

Not a bad idea IMO... though to be honest I think they should prioritise expansion/building of the airports themselves! The headlines (especially in my local authority) make it sound like everyone is against expansion/building, and many people I know (in their twenties) don't agree!
 
lhr380
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:38 am

Quoting Vasu (Reply 7):
Not a bad idea IMO... though to be honest I think they should prioritise expansion/building of the airports themselves! The headlines (especially in my local authority) make it sound like everyone is against expansion/building, and many people I know (in their twenties) don't agree!

I certainly don't even though it would mean it would get more noisy where I live. But I live near a big airport that has been there since 1929 so expect that it may have to expand to continue to offer what it offers. Without LHR I bet most of the areas around would be empty as a lot of staff live nearby. The hotels would not be there, the bus networks would not be there if it was not for the airport having grown to what it is today. Even if a NIMBY has been living in the house for 15 or 20 years, they must have realised at some point it may get very very busy and need to expand.
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
bsu747
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:50 am

Would it not make more sense to buy say £1 billion pounds worth of helicopters & use them as shuttles flying backwards & forwards all day long between LHR & LGW, sure it would make for a quicker transfer & I guess you won't need planning permission & upset all the Tory NIMBY voters!
Violla, problem sorted for a fifth of the price!

I remember the old British Caledonian helicopter service well from the 1980's & always wondered why they stopped.

p.s. How many decent sized helicopters can you get for £1 Billion?
Flying may not be all plain sailing, but the fun of it is worth the price.
 
lhr380
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:58 am

Quoting bsu747 (Reply 9):
I remember the old British Caledonian helicopter service well from the 1980's & always wondered why they stopped.

It stopped because the M25 opened. A lot more economical to go by road then copter
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
kaitak
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:02 am

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 4):
Quoting CXfirst (Reply 2):
How many transfer passengers are there between the airports?

There are a fair few. People living that side of London will get the bus to leave from LHR and vis versa. People connect onto the BA services ex LHR and LGW on the same ticket a lot of the time as well. The buses I have been on are always busy.

There are a lot, I think; there are many cities and places which have lost their LHR links - Jersey, for example.

It would be great if this could come to fruition, but it won't be today or tomorrow. I think there is actually an existing rail line that could be used, but it would take a lot of work and modernisation for the trip to be done in 15 minutes. And it won't be cheap for pax either.
 
rutankrd
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:08 am

Quoting bsu747 (Reply 9):

Would it not make more sense to buy say £1 billion pounds worth of helicopters & use them as shuttles flying backwards & forwards all day long between LHR & LGW, sure it would make for a quicker transfer & I guess you won't need planning permission & upset all the Tory NIMBY voters!
Violla, problem sorted for a fifth of the price!

I remember the old British Caledonian helicopter service well from the 1980's & always wondered why they stopped.

p.s. How many decent sized helicopters can you get for £1 Billion?

G-LINK stopped because of yes you guessed it the Surrey NIMBYS noise complaints ! No really because of the opening of the M25 allowing a regular 1 hour coach trip to work.

Flew G-LINK three times as a youth lovely views of the Woods on the Surrey /Hants border an abandoned airfield at Wisley, west of Dorking before finally turning East towards Gatwick.

Not very straight line 15 minute flight plus sometimes another 7 minutes hold especially at Heathrow end. Park in the Terminal 2/3 cul de sack with the VC10 and 707s and coach to/from terminal 1 so not that much time saving
 
PanHAM
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:09 am

Correct me if I'm wrong, but any connection involving 2 airports would fall back towards one airport connections. LHR and LGW would still be 2 separate airports, even if connected by HSR. That means in the OAG and reservation systems it would show

JFK-LHR BA 744
LHR-LGW BA TRN
LGW-DEL BA 733

whereas

JFK-FRA LH744
FRA-DEL LH 744

would be one stop and placed higher up.It simply won't happen, same as other "splendid" ideas we had here like building a Transrapid from FRA to a place in the boonies called HHN. Luckily such ventures to burn money never materialize.
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jessbp
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:15 am

It's a great idea. Traveling on the M25 between junctions 14 to 10 can be torturous during the day, so a direct rail link would help. But I'm with others in not believing it'll happen. We've planned then scraped the 3rd runway at LHR then we've planned and are now 'considering' whether the direct high speed link from the main line to LHR would be worth it. It seems we're good at having ideas that we can later abandon.

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 8):
I certainly don't even though it would mean it would get more noisy where I live. But I live near a big airport that has been there since 1929 so expect that it may have to expand to continue to offer what it offers. Without LHR I bet most of the areas around would be empty as a lot of staff live nearby. The hotels would not be there, the bus networks would not be there if it was not for the airport having grown to what it is today. Even if a NIMBY has been living in the house for 15 or 20 years, they must have realised at some point it may get very very busy and need to expand.

And that is a very valid point. I watched 'inside gatwick' on sky 1 last week and the program makers were interviewing a chap the lives under the final approach to the airport. He moved there 10 years ago and since then he's done nothing but complain about the noise. He's completely obsessed by the noise, keeping records of the number of flights that pass over every day. He emails gatwick daily and claims 'they must be stopped' despite, like heathrow, the airport being there for some time before he moved in! There then followed a 10 minute rant at the tv from me toward this idiot.

Back on topic. It does seem strange thought that we're always looking at making access to airports here easier, yet with runways at capacity, there can't be much room for increased passengers.
 
bennett123
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:37 am

Two thoughts occur to me.

1. Would'nt this have been more practical when BAA owned both airports.

2. A couple of years ago, I regularly travelled by train via Gatwick.

When standing on the platform, which is fairly close to the runway, it was often hard to hear an incoming flight until he was almost overhead due to the noise of trains/station announcements and road traffic.

The guy must have selected his home to maximise the effect.
 
U2380
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:39 am

Quoting jessbp (Reply 14):
I watched 'inside gatwick' on sky 1 last week and the program makers were interviewing a chap the lives under the final approach to the airport.

That guy really irritated me.

I'm not sure what he expects to gain from emailing them every day. Does he suddenly expect the management to turn around and say something along the lines of 'yeah he's right actually, it's too noisy, lets close the runway/airport'

Back to the LHR-LGW high speed connection. I could of envisaged such an undertaking if they were both part of the same company still. But I really can't see BAA and GIP co-operating in any way, especially in regards to having one short haul (LGW I would presume) and one long haul (LHR). I can't really see the need for such massive expenditure without that sort of co-operation.

I can't see the government funding anything aviation related anytime soon anyway.
 
lhr380
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:53 am

Quoting jessbp (Reply 14):
And that is a very valid point. I watched 'inside gatwick' on sky 1 last week and the program makers were interviewing a chap the lives under the final approach to the airport. He moved there 10 years ago and since then he's done nothing but complain about the noise. He's completely obsessed by the noise, keeping records of the number of flights that pass over every day. He emails gatwick daily and claims 'they must be stopped' despite, like heathrow, the airport being there for some time before he moved in! There then followed a 10 minute rant at the tv from me toward this idiot.

I bet a lot of people were shouting at the telly lol

Quoting U2380 (Reply 16):
That guy really irritated me.

Me too.

I was laughing at how surreal he was. He moved to get away from one airport and moved under the approach path of another which even back when he moved was busy and full of heavy jets. Wearing earphones in the garden and even then complaining it was too noisy.
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
fcogafa
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:56 am

The only way it would work was if Gatwick got rid of its major operator, airline not known for its connecting traffic, to make room for proper airlines. Not likely to happen, so the advantages of a LHR-LGW connection would be minimal. Especially as LGW is already at near capacity during some parts of the day.

The Govt do not know what to do about aviation in the UK. They come up with daft ideas and slogans such as 'better not bigger' but do not understand that you cannot make the worlds busiest two runway international airport that is already running at capacity 'better' without being bigger, more flexible and less restricted.

It would be more logical to build the track northwards to Northolt and use that as the third runway, but that aint going to happen either...
 
Algoz66
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:34 am

The usual botched and cobbled together solution from the UK government to a pressing problem they really wished would go away.
This will never happen. Why on earth would anyone want to fly to LHR, take a train across the Home counties to connect to a short haul flight from LGW, when they can do the same thing under one roof at AMS, CDG or FRA.
Ludicrous....
 
LHRFlyer
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:44 am

Not a chance of this happening. Classic UK Government "kite flying" tactic of floating fanciful ideas by leaking them to the press to give an impression of doing something. I doubt it's a coincidence that this was leaked in the same week IAG CEO Willie Walsh strongly criticised the UK Government's lack of policy on aviation.

In the context of UK rail investment, there is not much of a case to spend billions on a rail link between LHR and LGW when investment is needed elsewhere.
 
baroque
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:04 am

Quoting jet72uk (Thread starter):
The journey time would be 15 minutes at a cost of £5b. Thoughts...?

I suppose the £5b is for a return ticket. Wonder if the nice Indian ladies would sell me a ticket for half price the way they did on National Express.    FWIW the buses both ways were just over half full and that was on a Monday and a Saturday.

Quoting jessbp (Reply 14):
Traveling on the M25 between junctions 14 to 10 can be torturous during the day

Certainly can be. I got that in both bus trips and then driving from Petersfield to LHR. ??? A question of time before M25 grinds to a painful halt.
 
bill142
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:05 pm

A much cheaper and more politically friendly option would be construct a dedicated busway using the existing M25 and M23 corridors. But since the owners of Heathrow and Gatwick would most likely have to foot the bill, I don't see it happening.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:06 pm

Quoting bill142 (Reply 22):
A much cheaper and more politically friendly option would be construct a dedicated busway using the existing M25 and M23 corridors. But since the owners of Heathrow and Gatwick would most likely have to foot the bill, I don't see it happening.

In theory sounds like a good idea, but how long will the transit time between LHR and LGW be with buses using this dedicated corridor road?

The earlier suggestion of British Airways taking up all the unused landing slots at LHR makes way more sense than to have passengers transfer back and forth between LHR and LGW.
 
babybus
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:25 pm

A LHR-LGW raillink, I doubt that will happen.

There can't be that many passengers going between the two.

Helicopter connection again yes, but new railway deffo no way. They can't even make up their minds about a super fast north/south rail link.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
BD338
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:41 pm

£5bn to connect two constrained and congested facilities through the NIMBY heartland? It will only benefit a relatively few people who want togo from LHR to LGW. HSR2 has more chance of happening than this pipedream. Might get built around the same time as Boris's fantasy estuary airport.
 
trident3
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:43 pm

Quoting bsu747 (Reply 9):
I remember the old British Caledonian helicopter service well from the 1980's & always wondered why they stopped.

Some of us remember when they used an Islander on that route before the S61 was acquired.   
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LGWflyer
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:45 pm

If this would happen I would wonder if they will build it underground, call it the BA tunnel. If they do build this it will make getting to LHR easier for spotting haha.


Quoting Babybus (Reply 24):


Helicopter connection again yes, but new railway deffo no way. They can't even make up their minds about a super fast north/south rail link.

Helicopter connection I would love but you got to think about nervous flyers, if they can only just about get on a 747 I doubt they will get on a small chopper.
3 words... I Love Aviation!!!
 
slinky09
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:25 pm

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 18):
The Govt do not know what to do about aviation in the UK. They come up with daft ideas and slogans such as 'better not bigger' but do not understand that you cannot make the worlds busiest two runway international airport that is already running at capacity 'better' without being bigger, more flexible and less restricted.

Here here, they're just making noise to sound like they're doing something, meanwhile Rome is burning while the Tories fiddle. Simples, as the meerkats say, build R3 at LHR and problem solved. But this government goes out of its way to please everyone then pleases no one.

Quoting BD338 (Reply 25):
It will only benefit a relatively few people who want togo from LHR to LGW.

Indeed, who actually wants to transfer like that - LGW is much more of an O&D market than LHR and that won't change unless more runway capacity is built on one or both.
 
brilondon
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:29 pm

Quoting Larshjort (Reply 3):
Can't see many passengers choosing that option if thats the ticket cost
Quoting rutankrd (Reply 6):
Don't hold your breath won't happen.

Such a line through the MOST NIMBY infected and tory voting constituencies - Ain't happening in my life time.

It will be generations before they start years and years of hearings and studies and then more hearings and finally decide that there should be a study done on how to go about the project. This is tongue in cheek, but this is the regulatory hurdles that will probably put in place to get the go ahead for such a project as with all things in Britain.

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 6):
Any new carriers especially long haul O and D carriers and I include US carriers should be encouraged to go with Gatwick financially because these carriers DON'T need to be at Heathrow at all.

Not practical due to the people who connect through LHR. If it were, then you would not have had the mass evacuation when the Bermuda II treaty ended.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
planesarecool
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:49 pm

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 6):
Best plan for UK PLC would be to allow BA to continue to acquire all abandoned slots at LHR and complete the consolidation all their long haul in one place.

Why does this assumption that BA want to move all their long haul services to LHR come up in every thread? It's complete rubbish. They could easily make room for nine return flights every day if they really wanted to. But they don't.

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 18):

The only way it would work was if Gatwick got rid of its major operator, airline not known for its connecting traffic, to make room for proper airlines. Not likely to happen

Well yes, I don't think it is likely that Gatwick will 'get rid' of the airline that accounts for almost half the operations in the airport...
 
frmrCapCadet
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:05 pm

The real time saver would be for both ends of the trip to be behind security. Provided that was done the actual time of travel would not be all that significant. And of course for the train to stop very close to the internal transport system of each airport. Unlike the light rail to SeaTac which entails a quarter of a mile walk to the airport shuttle system.
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G-CIVP
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:12 pm

I can't see this happening due to the high government deficit we have at the moment. This said, I would welcome the link as it would represent a radical step forward.
 
rutankrd
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:14 pm

Quoting planesarecool (Reply 30):

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 6):
Best plan for UK PLC would be to allow BA to continue to acquire all abandoned slots at LHR and complete the consolidation all their long haul in one place.

Why does this assumption that BA want to move all their long haul services to LHR come up in every thread? It's complete rubbish. They could easily make room for nine return flights every day if they really wanted to. But they don't.

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 18):

The only way it would work was if Gatwick got rid of its major operator, airline not known for its connecting traffic, to make room for proper airlines. Not likely to happen

Well yes, I don't think it is likely that Gatwick will 'get rid' of the airline that accounts for almost half the operations in the airport...

Read what I said its in UK PLC and BA long term and best interests to have all long haul under one roof and the vast majority of their connecting traffic routed through said HUB.

As it is they continue to have a presence at Gatwick only in so far as operating the Caribbean Mexico and Florida holiday services (With little connecting traffic)
Ventures elsewhere come and go as demands on LHR slots dictate.

For what its worth i am no great supporter of the Irish gentleman and his Heathrow bias however it really is the only way BA can survive against LH and AF.

From a national PLC perspective a strong single global airline would be significantly more viable than the current trinity BA/BD and VS.
 
T8KE0FF
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:42 pm

How about if Emirates makes another cable car connection between the 2 airports?  
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planesarecool
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:47 pm

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 33):
Heathrow bias however it really is the only way BA can survive against LH and AF.

The two airlines that operate their long haul services from separate hubs (particularly AF, who operate in almost identically the same way as BA, operating leisure services that aren't dependent on connections through ORY). There is no benefit to BA to move their Caribbean/Florida services to LHR. The only significant connections for these flights comes in the form of domestic destinations, of which LGW offers more.
 
babybus
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:48 pm

The only way I can see this happening is if they make a stop in Stratford somehow.

There may not be any passengers for Stratford LHR/LGW but that has never stopped the authorities from getting all of London's transport to stop there unnecessarily.

As mentioned maybe an Emirates cable car Stratford-LHR and Stratford- LGW would work. LHR to LGW passengers could interchange at Stratford.

(The above mentioned interchange idea is pending copyright, before Boris starts work on it  )
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
rutankrd
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:57 pm

Quoting planesarecool (Reply 35):
The two airlines that operate their long haul services from separate hubs (particularly AF, who operate in almost identically the same way as BA, operating leisure services that aren't dependent on connections through ORY). There is no benefit to BA to move their Caribbean/Florida services to LHR. The only significant connections for these flights comes in the form of domestic destinations, of which LGW offers more.

True enough however you could argue those AF Orly long hauliers are domestic flights to the more distant departments of France couldn't you?
 
jet72uk
Topic Author
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:08 pm

BA will never consolidate at just one airport (LHR). Putting all the eggs in one basket.... No, for obvious reasons...
 
bavair
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:08 pm

Quoting planesarecool (Reply 35):
The two airlines that operate their long haul services from separate hubs (particularly AF, who operate in almost identically the same way as BA, operating leisure services that aren't dependent on connections through ORY). There is no benefit to BA to move their Caribbean/Florida services to LHR. The only significant connections for these flights comes in the form of domestic destinations, of which LGW offers more.

What goes for LH, you can see long haul from 3 airports (FRA, MUC, DUS) which all have connecting traffic (DUS being based more on O&D).
I think in the Long term BA might just have to either go down a path like this and open a new hub, or, if that is not economically viable, increase the capacity on the high frequency routes with larger equipment (aka A380).
 
PanHAM
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Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:11 pm

Quoting bavair (Reply 39):
I think in the Long term BA might just have to either go down a path like this and open a new hub, or, if that is not economically viable, increase the capacity on the high frequency routes with larger equipment (aka A380).

They missed the boat at MAN when that airport got the second runway. May be a bit too late now.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
voodoo
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:16 pm

If there was joined up thinking it could have been/be part of a 'down 'round London' link between HS2 and HS1.
So you could have HS trains from Birmingham and Bristol going to 'Heathwick' and on to (Ebbsfleet if not Ashford?) and on to Paris/Brussels etc.
` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
 
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OA260
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RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:45 pm

Nice idea for the future but now there are better things to spend the money on. Have done the coach many times and its very easy and cheap.
 
spud757
Posts: 183
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:20 pm

RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:49 pm

Rather than linking LHR and LGW by HS rail... Just give LHR a proper direct, link to the national rail network - from the regions it's a pain to get a train into Euston, Kings X or St Pancras and then take the tube round to Paddington and the train from there. With a direct LHR rail link BA could look to scrap some of its shuttle services from MAN, NCL etc and sell connections ex-LHR on rail service code shares. That would free up slots for other short and long hual services.

LGW already has direct national rail access. Why not LHR?

Even better - use the 2 runway capacity at MAN. That has direct rail access and the capacity to grow  
 
flyingcello
Posts: 208
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 8:31 pm

RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:03 pm

voodoo and spud757 have got it right...

LHR is tentatively getting a link to the high speed West Coast Main Line. If this proposal were an extension of that line to LGW, then it makes sense. I've done some digging, and between BA, BMI, FlyBe and Easy, there are 38 slot pairs each day between London and Manchester / Glasgow. That's 38 A320 family or 737 flights that could potentially be dropped...that could free up capacity at LHR and LGW for 38 A380s! Even if only a proportion of traffic was moved to high speed rail, it still offers better long-haul utilisation of LHR and LGW. This is not just about linking the two airports...it's about providing a true high speed rail alternative.
 
will777
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:21 am

RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:42 pm

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 2):
I could see it being a good investment if the future of LHR and LGW were planned accordingly. Such as have domestic flights from one and international from the other (or domestic and Europe from one and intercontinental from the other), and use this service as an airside transfer. If it takes only 15 minutes by train, and the trains ran every 5 minutes or so, then the transfer times wouldn't be a big deal. In essence, make the two airports into one big airport.

This sounds like a great idea, although I agree with everyone else that it probably won't happen.
 
kdhurst380
Posts: 347
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:52 am

RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:56 pm

The government seem to be under the impression that these airports are going to cooperate.

They're not, BAA aren't going to make it easy for LGW to take pax off its hands. Flawed from the outset.
 
David_itl
Posts: 6419
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:22 pm

Quoting FlyingCello (Reply 44):
This is not just about linking the two airports...it's about providing a true high speed rail alternative.

With railways paying their way and not being subsidised by the state. I trust you accidentally left that bit out. Airlines are running those domestic services at commercial risk. The railways should do the same with their services and not dump capacity.
 
flyingcello
Posts: 208
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 8:31 pm

RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:47 pm

Quoting david_itl (Reply 47):

With railways paying their way and not being subsidised by the state. I trust you accidentally left that bit out. Airlines are running those domestic services at commercial risk. The railways should do the same with their services and not dump capacity.

Is Network Rail significantly different from BAA prior to privatisation? Ultimately, the state has to play a part in the provision of national infrastructure. So provide the track, and let the TOCs decide whether the route is profitable.

Major infrastructure projects of this nature are far too capital intensive to leave their planning and implementation to private industry. Somewhere, government has to set the strategic direction, but that doesn't mean subsidy...if BA / BMI can make those regional services viable, then so can the TOCs.
 
slinky09
Posts: 661
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 5:03 pm

RE: Heathwick - LHR-LGW High Speed Rail Link

Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:04 am

Quoting FlyingCello (Reply 48):
Is Network Rail significantly different from BAA prior to privatisation?

Yes it is, the third runway at LHR needed no state investment, unlike rail links, or other major mdes of transport, we have an industry that is self financing for major infrastructure. Another mad reason that the state interferes in the way it does.

All the talk of a new estuary airport will never happen for the same reason, it needs state investment to make it work and a massive amount of it ...

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