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Tugger
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All US Troops Out Of Iraq By The End Of The Year

Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:07 pm

President Obama just announced that all US forces will be withdrawn and out of Iraq by the end of the year. A few may remain but none in combat.

Quote:
The United States will withdraw almost all its troops from Iraq by the end of the year, as a current agreement with Iraq dictates, a U.S. official told CNN Friday.

Only about 150 troops, a negligible force, will remain to assist in arms sales.

The United States had expected that some of the roughly 40,000 Americans in Iraq would remain there to aid in training and security.

But the two nations were unable to reach a deal on a key issue regarding legal immunity for U.S. troops, a senior U.S. military official with direct knowledge of the discussions told CNN this month.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/21/world/...raq-us-troops/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

Tugg
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: All US Troops Out Of Iraq By The End Of The Year

Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:46 pm

I watched his announcement. Apart from the first minute where he was just talking about himself, it was OK. I would have kept it simpler - "We are leaving, the troops have done their jobs well, and leave behind a nation under Democratic, Iraqi control, and free of any domestic, organized strife. It is now up to them." Interference from Iran is another question - we'll see.

It would have been out of the question to leave troops in Iraq if they had to face local justice for perceived crimes under local law.

So after 9 years, we are finally out. I am confident that the world and the Middle east is better off with a Democratic Iraq, with all its imperfections, rather than with Saddam still in power (and by now, long free of any international sanctions). Whether history will show that it was worthwhile will one day be seen.
 
StuckInCA
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RE: All US Troops Out Of Iraq By The End Of The Year

Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:00 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 1):
So after 9 years, we are finally out. I am confident that the world and the Middle east is better off with a Democratic Iraq, with all its imperfections, rather than with Saddam still in power (and by now, long free of any international sanctions). Whether history will show that it was worthwhile will one day be seen.

I'm confident we would have been a lot better served not invading.

We'll never know...
 
Arrow
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RE: All US Troops Out Of Iraq By The End Of The Year

Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:05 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 1):
So after 9 years, we are finally out. I am confident that the world and the Middle east is better off with a Democratic Iraq, with all its imperfections, rather than with Saddam still in power (and by now, long free of any international sanctions). Whether history will show that it was worthwhile will one day be seen.

Well, I'm glad you are confident. I'm not confident in any way. I can see the democracy unravelling pretty quickly, and a fairly potent theocracy taking its place. I don't think history will view this as anything more than an ill-considered, ill-fated, and fundamentally hopeless adventure by an administration that was way out of its depth and had too many other agendas in play. I hope I'm wrong.
 
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par13del
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RE: All US Troops Out Of Iraq By The End Of The Year

Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:03 pm

However, history will also show that where the US has invaded they have not stayed and maintained a colonial rule, surely that has to count for something?
They are still in Japan and Germany decades after WWII, are there any citizens in those countries who believe that their governments are run from the White House or Capital Hill?

Iraq has been given a chance, like the former Yugoslavia, how the handle the situation is what democracy is about, history does not have many examples where colonial powers groom their colonies for independency.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: All US Troops Out Of Iraq By The End Of The Year

Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:18 pm

Yeah my friend was preparing to go to Iraq but found out about this a few days ago. This is a risky move on Iraq's part, let's hope they can keep it together. If Iraq can stay a democracy and peace can come to this land, then at least our troops did not die in vain. (My opinion, of course)
 
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einsteinboricua
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RE: All US Troops Out Of Iraq By The End Of The Year

Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:32 pm

And already we have rants from the party whose president launched the war. The same ones that say that DC is overspending, but don't mind if US troops stay longer, spending more taxpayers' money. Newsflash: this is just following Bush's mandate as well. Before he left office, he made it clear that operations there were winding down and that US troops would be withdrawn by the end of 2011.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news...iticize-obama-over-iraq-withdrawal

I say well done. Now we can say Mission Accomplished.

Whether Iran starts wiggling its influence or not into Iraq is a different matter entirely. I'm pretty sure the Gulf monarchies would unite against any Iranian influence in the region and would seek to prevent Iraq from becoming Iran 2.0 (even more so when it would share a border with two Gulf monarchies). And if Iran starts exerting influence, it's up to the Iraqis to stand up for themselves. After all, where was Iran when Saddam oppressed its people? Did Iran contribute in the removal of Saddam or the stability of Iraq? Let's see if Iraqis see this as well.
 
dxing
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RE: All US Troops Out Of Iraq By The End Of The Year

Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:40 pm

Quoting tugger (Thread starter):
President Obama just announced that all US forces will be withdrawn and out of Iraq by the end of the year.

President Bush announced that they would be out of Iraq by December 31st 2011 in 2008.

http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/infocus/iraq/

As we further transition security responsibilities to the Iraqi Security Forces, military commanders will continue to move U.S. combat forces out of major populated areas so that they are all out by June 30, 2009.

•The Security Agreement also sets a date of December 31, 2011, for all U.S. forces to withdraw from Iraq. This date reflects the increasing capacity of the Iraqi Security Forces as demonstrated in operations this year throughout Iraq, as well as an improved regional atmosphere towards Iraq, an expanding Iraqi economy, and an increasingly confident Iraqi government.




Funny I heard no mention of how this had been negotiated by his predecessor in the Presidents speech. Must have been a simple oversight on someones part eh?
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: All US Troops Out Of Iraq By The End Of The Year

Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:46 am

Well only 8 years too late.

We should have never gone there to begin with - big part of our major debt issues.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: All US Troops Out Of Iraq By The End Of The Year

Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:58 am

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 8):

We should have never gone there to begin with - big part of our major debt issues.

Hmmm... Cost of war to date, 2001 to 2011, $1.27 trillion.
http://costofwar.com/en/

Federal debt: $14.88 trillion

Additional debt since Obama: $4.4 trillion (not counting TARP which was passed by Bush)

The war is less than 10% of or debt problem. 90+% is overspending right here in the US.
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: All US Troops Out Of Iraq By The End Of The Year

Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:53 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
Hmmm... Cost of war to date, 2001 to 2011, $1.27 trillion.
http://costofwar.com/en/

Federal debt: $14.88 trillion

Do you have $1.27 trillion to donate to help pay it off? I think a debt of $13.61 trillion sounds somewhat better than 14.88 trillion anyway. What was it all worth? nearly 10,000 of our own dead not to count allies and Iraqi citizens and several more thousand permanently injured? All for what?

Does it factor in rebuilding costs? Training costs of the new Iraqi armies, Halliburton inflated costs for everything else over there etc?

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
The war is less than 10% of or debt problem. 90+% is overspending right here in the US.

I'd rather see the spending done in this country than someone else's country. There is a chance we might get some of that money back that way.

The direct costs of war may only be 10% of our debt problem, but there are such things as indirect and the multiplier effect - what kind of costs do these wars have on our economy that may not be directly related?

ie travel went down out of people's fear of flying during the war. The gas prices have been high mainly due to our involvement in these wars (that was when prices started going up above $2 a gallon shortly after these wars started), which lead to people buying less vehicles, which lead to auto bailouts. Also due to high gas prices, a lot of companies had to lay off workers (ie the airlines being affected by high gas prices), which means higher unemployment - meaning the government is paying out more unemployment benefits.

I have a pretty good feeling if the U.S. was not involved in these wars that we would have seen or needed to see the $1 trillion bank bailouts.

Also, you need to factor in the money that we are borrowing from China to fund these wars comes with interest when we have to pay it back.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: All US Troops Out Of Iraq By The End Of The Year

Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:38 am

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 10):
Does it factor in rebuilding costs? Training costs of the new Iraqi armies, Halliburton inflated costs for everything else over there etc?

Yes.

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 10):

I'd rather see the spending done in this country than someone else's country. There is a chance we might get some of that money back that way.

I disagree. When it's overseas, there is a high probability that it will one day be stopped. When it is here, it is extremely difficult to stop spending without costing you votes of concerned special interests.
 
baroque
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RE: All US Troops Out Of Iraq By The End Of The Year

Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:59 pm

Quoting Arrow (Reply 3):
I'm not confident in any way. I can see the democracy unravelling pretty quickly, and a fairly potent theocracy taking its place.
Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 10):
Does it factor in rebuilding costs? Training costs of the new Iraqi armies, Halliburton inflated costs for everything else over there etc?

Here is one measure of progress to date. As oil production is a source of income, other indicators - which are much harder to establish - probably lag this one.

2000 to 2010 daily oil production in Millions of Barrels.

2614........2523......2116......1344......2030......1833.....1999......2143.....2428....2442......2460
 
727LOVER
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RE: All US Troops Out Of Iraq By The End Of The Year

Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:05 pm

So when will oil production be back at pre-war levels? Will that take oil prices dramatically lower?
 
baroque
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RE: All US Troops Out Of Iraq By The End Of The Year

Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:24 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 13):
So when will oil production be back at pre-war levels? Will that take oil prices dramatically lower?

It has been close in some months in 2011. Will make no difference.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/28/news/international/iraq_oil/index.htm
Oil production in Iraq hovered around 2 million barrels a day for much of the post-U.S. invasion period.

But over the last year production jumped 13%, going from 2.3 to 2.6 million barrels a day, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration. Much of that increase has come in the last few months alone, and it's part of the reason why many analyst expect Saudi Arabia to soon cut oil output.


Mind you the cynics/pessimists suggest SA would be happy to reduce production due to falling production from Ghawar.

One report has Iraq's crude oil output capacity has jumped to a post-war record of 2.950 million barrels a day this month, the country's oil minister said Saturday.
But capacity and production are two different things for the most part!

Peak for Iraq was about 3.5 MMB/D back in the late 70s.
 
Ken777
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RE: All US Troops Out Of Iraq By The End Of The Year

Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:02 pm

Quoting par13del (Reply 4):
They are still in Japan and Germany decades after WWII, are there any citizens in those countries who believe that their governments are run from the White House or Capital Hill?

We should be able to cut our troops in Germany, but IIRC Germany wants those troops and the money they spend.

Quoting dxing (Reply 7):
Funny I heard no mention of how this had been negotiated by his predecessor in the Presidents speech. Must have been a simple oversight on someones part eh?

Bit queer that Bush announces that AFTER the GOP has lost the White House. I guess as long as a Republican was in the White House it was OK to wing it, but with the Presidency lost it was time to end the Halliburton Handout.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
The war is less than 10% of or debt problem. 90+% is overspending right here in the US.

Wrong

The war is going to cost taxpayers over $3 Trillion (and probably a lot more) over the generations as we take care of the veterans who were injured of suffered other problems. And payments to the war widows. My mother-in-law was a war widow and her payments listed her entire life. But her husband was in the RAF - they might take better care of their widows than we do.

Of course it might be possible to cut down that $3+ Trillion. All you have to do is slip the shaft to veterans and widows. I can see the right doing that.

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