|Quoting ozglobal (Reply 99):|
Islam, unlike Christianity, has not yet developed the notion of the freedom of conscience as a necessary condition for human freedom to operate. Hence, Islam as a political influence does not create states where freedom of conscience is respected or protected. Citizens and expats of these societies do not have the same notion therefore of freedom of speech, nor the distinction between the private and public spheres of life. Islam tends to produce a monolithic society where all conform to norms and disent is necessarily disloyal and a threat to the social order. There is not the same concept of 'heathy debate' when the ultimate goal and form of society is already defined and the only remaining project is implementation. Conversely, they have learnt to invoke local laws on religious liberty to gain more an more respect for their own religiously justified norms in the west. Islam is quite incompatible as a system with modern western values, hence the ongoing conflict.
This is a very good point and you're right on the money--Islam is about submission and adherence, not free will. This is EXACTLY why sharia is absolutely incompatible with a free society and why the injection of it into our Western society--whether it's in Dearborn or Minneapolis or wherever, is WRONG.
|Quoting ronglimeng (Reply 107):|
I read recently: “A fanatical Muslim will put you on the ground and try to kill you if he thinks you have insulted Islam; a moderate Muslim will stand over you and calmly and politely explain why this is happening to you.”
That's an interesting notion and not far off from what we've seen...
|Quoting starbuk7 (Reply 116):|
And that is the problem. Not blaming you personally, but that is where the Protestants, Baptists, Mormons, etc came from. They did not agree with everything in the catholic faith and changed the interpretations and got away from the catholic form of Christianity.
If there are as many Muslims as you say that do not agree with parts of the Koran, you should get together and make changes as to how you practice your religion and let everyone know why and maybe more will move away from the radical side and interpretations.
! Now we get to the crux of the matter. This requires far further introspection and discussion; unfortunately, each time it's been brought up on this site, those threads and posts strangely get moderated and deleted. But the very fundamental underpinnings of Islam make reformation IMPOSSIBLE.
Because reformation, at least in the context of how it occurred within Christianity, is not doable is Islam. The words of their prophet are INFALLIBLE. Thus, if something were to detract from that, it makes the tenets of Islam null and void. And the house of cards collapses. We've discussed the concept of abrogation in the Quran here before and it bears repeating. No Muslim has touched that subject here, strange no?
If the words of Muhammed are amended, and since they are understaood to be DIRECTLY from Allah, then the entire foundation of Islam craters. Hence, no reformation is even something to conceive and that's one MORE reason, in a line of many, why the West still doesn't "get it"--because we continue to look at Islam through the lens of a Western religion where there is a separation among religious, political, social, etc. Islam makes no such distinction. Which means it is, literally, and all of nothing doctrine...and THAT'S why there is zero tolerance when the free speech of the West conflicts with Islamists.