After the UK embassy in Iran is overrun by "students", then ransacked, with vehicles and flags burned......
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15966628
I like this quote from the UK Government.....
"If any country makes it impossible for us to operate on their soil they cannot expect to have a functioning embassy here,"
Hence the Iranians have 48 hours to close the embassy in London and leave the country.
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UK Kicks Out All Iran Diplomats
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
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- canoecarrier
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RE: UK Kicks Out All Iran Diplomats
I'm surprised it's taken this long for someone to start a thread on the subject. You, and many others noticed that the "students" were more likely Basij militia.
The UK's diplomatic response was spot on. They could even go so far as expelling any Iranian citizens. I did wonder what sort of documents would still be laying around when the embassy was stormed. Presumably, most countries diplomatic staff have a big shredder and a short list of documents that could be disposed of in a fast manor.
When was the last time something like this occurred anywhere? Was it in 1979 with the US embassy? I remember watching a documentary once where the Iranians took all the US embassy's shredded documents, literally bags and bags full of strips of shredded paper, and put them all back together. I bought a better shredder after I saw that.
Typically, sovereign nations that close their embassy down are still able to communicate via the Swiss embassy though.
The UK's diplomatic response was spot on. They could even go so far as expelling any Iranian citizens. I did wonder what sort of documents would still be laying around when the embassy was stormed. Presumably, most countries diplomatic staff have a big shredder and a short list of documents that could be disposed of in a fast manor.
When was the last time something like this occurred anywhere? Was it in 1979 with the US embassy? I remember watching a documentary once where the Iranians took all the US embassy's shredded documents, literally bags and bags full of strips of shredded paper, and put them all back together. I bought a better shredder after I saw that.
Typically, sovereign nations that close their embassy down are still able to communicate via the Swiss embassy though.
The beatings will continue until morale improves
RE: UK Kicks Out All Iran Diplomats
| Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 1): They could even go so far as expelling any Iranian citizens. |
Why? Many Iranian citizens outside Iran are exiles and as are abhorring of the regime currently operating in their country as any other Westerner. I agree suspicious citizens may be thrown out but applying such a measure in a blanket manner is not very humane.
By the way, many countries in the EU have either recalled their ambassadors or have issued strong protests to the Iranian regime.
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- MD11Engineer
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RE: UK Kicks Out All Iran Diplomats
| Quoting AR385 (Reply 2): Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 1): They could even go so far as expelling any Iranian citizens. Why? Many Iranian citizens outside Iran are exiles and as are abhorring of the regime currently operating in their country as any other Westerner. I agree suspicious citizens may be thrown out but applying such a measure in a blanket manner is not very humane. |
In WW2, most German, Austrian and Italian exiles in Britain turned out to be "The King´s Most Loyal Enemy Aliens", who donned British uniforms to serve in the British military and intelligence services to fight the Nazis, being largelyelf-motivated. Sure, there were a few Nazi sympathizers, but they got outed very fast (mainly by the anti-Nazi refugees) and ended up in prison.
Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
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- canoecarrier
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RE: UK Kicks Out All Iran Diplomats
| Quoting AR385 (Reply 2): Why? Many Iranian citizens outside Iran are exiles and as are abhorring of the regime currently operating in their country as any other Westerner. I agree suspicious citizens may be thrown out but applying such a measure in a blanket manner is not very humane. |
True, that is a slippery slope.
What sanctions did the UK impose on Iran's nuclear program? I wonder if the recent explosion in Isfahan at the uranium conversion plant had anything to do with the protests.
The beatings will continue until morale improves
RE: UK Kicks Out All Iran Diplomats
| Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 4): What sanctions did the UK impose on Iran's nuclear program? |
The UK has just frozen many of Iran's monetary assets this past week....
| Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 4): I wonder if the recent explosion in Isfahan at the uranium conversion plant had anything to do with the protests. |
If you are referring to this explosion http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15960456 then the Iranians stated that the it was the result of "foreign intelligence personnel"....
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
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- canoecarrier
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RE: UK Kicks Out All Iran Diplomats
| Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 3): In WW2, most German, Austrian and Italian exiles in Britain turned out to be "The King´s Most Loyal Enemy Aliens", who donned British uniforms to serve in the British military and intelligence services to fight the Nazis, being largelyelf-motivated. Sure, there were a few Nazi sympathizers, but they got outed very fast (mainly by the anti-Nazi refugees) and ended up in prison. |
I forget my roots. My grandfather was one of those Germans who emigrated to the US and fought on the western front for his newly adopted country. If not for a sympathetic immigration policy during that time we might be neighbors and you wouldn't have to talk to me in English!
| Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 5): If you are referring to this explosion http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15960456 then the Iranians stated that the it was the result of "foreign intelligence personnel"... |
There have been two lately. The one you linked too talks about both. The first one was on November 12th at a Revolutionary Guards base 25 miles outside of Tehran the second was on Monday. Supposedly, the first explosion killed the head of Iran's missile program.
Not sure whats going on right now, but either they can't safely make bombs/missiles or either Israel/UK/US doesn't like them trying to make them.
The beatings will continue until morale improves
RE: UK Kicks Out All Iran Diplomats
I might catch some flak for this statement but oh well: I'm as sorry as I can be to watch this happen and wouldn't wish it on anybody, much less the UK, but I'm glad at the moment it's not the United States bearing the public front of the Iranian regime's bullocks. Their antics havent changed, and they've shown their colors again. Let them throw a fit to somebody else. Note: I am ONLY referring to the Iranian regime. I wonder what the largely innocent people of Iran think of this? I know I would be thoroughly embarrassed.
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[Edited 2011-11-30 14:59:03]
[Edited 2011-11-30 15:01:44]
RE: UK Kicks Out All Iran Diplomats
| Quoting luckyone (Reply 7): but I'm glad at the moment it's not the United States bearing the public front of the Iranian regime's bullocks |
The regime is not stupid. They know the US is just waiting for a similar antic to launch major retaliation and finally get rid of their nuclear program. They know who to mess with. This is not to say the UK is a wuz, just that at this stage relationships between the UK and Iran have not reached the heated point the one between the US and Iran has reached. The regime knows it has some leeway still with the UK. Gone now, probably.
I´m sure they wouldn´t attemp such a stunt with the US. Or with the UK again. They might try it with France or Germany yet.
RE: UK Kicks Out All Iran Diplomats
| Quoting AR385 (Reply 8): |
I agree completely. I didn't mean to imply they were stupid. I've never thought that. Ridiculous and completely full of it, yes. But never stupid. I've said in a few other threads they've played the US card to death, now they've got a new one. Same sh*t on a different shovel. One problem, it's not a good idea to sh*t where you eat. Russia can't prop up a country the size of Iran, and China is likely to only do so much to back them up when they're starting fires, IMHO.
RE: UK Kicks Out All Iran Diplomats
| Quoting luckyone (Reply 9): China is likely to only do so much to back them up when they're starting fires, IMHO. |
I believe China still has a few years to go until becoming real active in foreing affairs of this type in regions that are not in what they consider their rightful sphere of influence, such as North Korea, Taiwan and certain regions of the Pacific. And Russia is just not there yet, and won´t be for many years.
The Iranian regime is just asking for it.
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- einsteinboricua
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RE: UK Kicks Out All Iran Diplomats
Hm...interesting. Could this escalate to the UK severing all ties with Iran a la US?
Judging by the lack of action from Iranian authorities, the regime there has no problem violating international agreements, so they should not whine when the international community imposes harsher punishments. Amazing to think that while Iran lets certain citizens deface property that the Iranian government should protect, the Iranian embassy in the US is as clean as it was.
Unfortunately, I am trying to find the article which I read on MSNBC but I can't find it.
Judging by the lack of action from Iranian authorities, the regime there has no problem violating international agreements, so they should not whine when the international community imposes harsher punishments. Amazing to think that while Iran lets certain citizens deface property that the Iranian government should protect, the Iranian embassy in the US is as clean as it was.
Unfortunately, I am trying to find the article which I read on MSNBC but I can't find it.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
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- sprout5199
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RE: UK Kicks Out All Iran Diplomats
| Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 1): I'm surprised it's taken this long for someone to start a thread on the subject. You, and many others noticed that the "students" were more likely Basij militia. |
I was surprised also. Where are all the US bashers that are in the other thread about the A320 sale. Hmm. Makes you wonder.
The UK has done the right thing, and I believe this will actually blow up in Iran's face. Now poeple can't say "its all the US's fault.". Seems like Iran is the only counry that can destroy "all the world" but can't even control some "students".
Dan in Jupiter
RE: UK Kicks Out All Iran Diplomats
http://m.cnn.com/primary/_2jhLfx-iu7HcMMLkxP
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/world-europe-15984216
Things are getting even more interesting, and the article implies that even further measures might be implemented. The EU is Iran's largest trading partner. Somebody, somewhere in Tehran has got to be thinking "Oops."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/world-europe-15984216
Things are getting even more interesting, and the article implies that even further measures might be implemented. The EU is Iran's largest trading partner. Somebody, somewhere in Tehran has got to be thinking "Oops."
RE: UK Kicks Out All Iran Diplomats
At least this time , unlike in 1980, the Iranian London Embassy won't be cleared by members of the Special Air Service!
(When it was seized by Iranian dissidents in 1980, Tehran's message to it's embassy staff being held hostage was basically 'Martyrdom! Enjoy!')
As for the mob of these 'militia' who trashed the UK embassy, looking at them I just thought why are not at home getting all conjugal with their cousins. Or early/mid teenage brides.
(When it was seized by Iranian dissidents in 1980, Tehran's message to it's embassy staff being held hostage was basically 'Martyrdom! Enjoy!')
As for the mob of these 'militia' who trashed the UK embassy, looking at them I just thought why are not at home getting all conjugal with their cousins. Or early/mid teenage brides.
RE: UK Kicks Out All Iran Diplomats
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
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- canoecarrier
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RE: UK Kicks Out All Iran Diplomats
Not sure I believe this quote from your article, "Officials say the latest sanctions are not linked to the storming of the British Embassy in Tehran on Tuesday."
I think that's political talk for leaving the door open to do more later and blame it on the embassy storming.
The sanctions that have the potential for the greatest effect are the ones that prevent new investment and technological assistance to Iran's gas producing and refining industry. Up until last year Iran subsidized gas for its citizens. A year ago one could buy gas at 38 cents/gallon.
Iran's economy was already straining when the government reduced the gas subsidy a year ago raising gas prices by over 400%. Add a devalued currency and inflation into the mix and the potential for oil prices to drop and that country could end up in a civil war. Oil is the only bargaining tool Iran has with countries like China, the sanctions give China a huge negotiating tool.
I think that's political talk for leaving the door open to do more later and blame it on the embassy storming.
The sanctions that have the potential for the greatest effect are the ones that prevent new investment and technological assistance to Iran's gas producing and refining industry. Up until last year Iran subsidized gas for its citizens. A year ago one could buy gas at 38 cents/gallon.
Iran's economy was already straining when the government reduced the gas subsidy a year ago raising gas prices by over 400%. Add a devalued currency and inflation into the mix and the potential for oil prices to drop and that country could end up in a civil war. Oil is the only bargaining tool Iran has with countries like China, the sanctions give China a huge negotiating tool.
The beatings will continue until morale improves
RE: UK Kicks Out All Iran Diplomats
| Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 15): The EU today announced more sanctions against Iran. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-euro...84216 |
Why not just go all out and just embargo them? I mean I'm completely against the sanctions but if you're gonna do it, might as well do it correctly and get it over with. I daresay going all out might actually work, not this half baked attempt that is just dragging out painfully...
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- canoecarrier
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RE: UK Kicks Out All Iran Diplomats
| Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 17): I mean I'm completely against the sanctions but if you're gonna do it, might as well do it correctly and get it over with. I daresay going all out might actually work, not this half baked attempt that is just dragging out painfully... |
Why are you against the sanctions? They were working last year and even resulted in the citizenry of Iran considering regime change because of the cost of basic goods going up. These cut much deeper, although I'm not sure how much more the EU could sanction them without an outright embargo after this.
Overall, I don't think the actions of the government represent the actual views of a majority of the Iranian citizens.
The beatings will continue until morale improves
RE: UK Kicks Out All Iran Diplomats
| Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 17): |
There was discussion about a full embargo, but Greece objected on the grounds that Iran has been supplying oil at terms that Greece would otherwise not find right now. Why the Greeks felt they could object to anything I'm not sure I understand, considering they are basically at the EU's mercy. They will most likely need to be bailed out again so why take their energy situation into account right now? It's money now, or later regardless.
RE: UK Kicks Out All Iran Diplomats
| Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 18): Why are you against the sanctions? |
Well, it all ties into what I think is very flawed US foreign policy, but that is for another thread. Read my replies in some of the other Iran and Israel threads. I've thought a lot about it lately.
Do closings of embassies happen very often? It seems pretty significant
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- canoecarrier
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RE: UK Kicks Out All Iran Diplomats
| Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 20): Do closings of embassies happen very often? It seems pretty significant |
Very rare that full evacuation of embassy staff with no plan to come back ever happens. The US has temporarily closed embassies for a number days due to civil unrest, like in Pakistan after we killed OBL. There are a number of other embassies in countries like Indonesia, Vietnam, and Bahrain we've closed as well temporarily over the past decade. But in none of those instances did we pull out all staff...well except in '75 in the case of Saigon/Ho Chi Min City.
| Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 20): Well, it all ties into what I think is very flawed US foreign policy, but that is for another thread. |
Just note though that although we have sanctions against Iran they've worked around them for some time. The EU sanctions are much more significant. Turkey's learning now what it means to be a member of the EU.
The beatings will continue until morale improves