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User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25234
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: Proof That Homeland Security/TSA Are Protecting Us

Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:02 am

Quoting LOWS (Reply 6):
Are you serious!?      

Sadly he is  

The bit about digging up the grave is a bit sick and I can understand people taking exception to that .

The bit about ''destroy'' is a common term in the UK and Ireland so really wasn't an issue. Maybe UK Border control will ban Americans and their '' fanny packs'' for being obscene  
 
B747-4U3
Posts: 617
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2002 8:08 am

RE: Proof That Homeland Security/TSA Are Protecting Us

Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:37 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 46):
They can say anything they wish - however they by the same light live by the consequences.

With every action there is reaction, so harmless banter or not, the words expressed were taken in negative light.

The question is was the reaction right?

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 46):
Listen - border control agencies can refuse entry to anyone on any grounds

That was never in doubt.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 46):
So no, I don't see the US refusing entry for someone making "jokes" on the internet extreme. With todays ease of global communications means its not much different than saying or doing the same infront of the customs agent.

That attitude is fine, but the key question is where will it stop? I'm all for monitoring of social media to look for potential threats, however for sake of liberty those that monitor these sites must be able to distinguish between a genuine threat to peoples' security and a distasteful comment.

One could draw comparisons between what happened here and the Stasi in East Germany.

How would you like it if I overheard you making an obvious joke in your private life, reported it to the authorities and then you getting refused entry to a certain country because of it? Effectively you are loosing a privilege because someone took exception to an innocent joke you made in your private life...not that different from those reported for making derogatory comments about the Socialist regime in East Germany?

It is all very well saying that we have to be "responsible" however it is very easy for an innocent joke to slip out...and if we are resilient enough to resist making such comments, don't you think the world would be an unpleasant place with us constantly having think about what we say because we don't know who is listening?

There has to be a line and unfortunately in this instance I think the authorities overstepped that line.
 
StarAC17
Posts: 3995
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

RE: Proof That Homeland Security/TSA Are Protecting Us

Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:26 pm

Quoting B747-4U3 (Reply 51):
That attitude is fine, but the key question is where will it stop?

I doubt that these two people (the poster and his friend) will ever get into the US again and probably not be allowed to overfly US airspace in the future.

I did post before they they will now have to apply for Visas like a citizen of a country that requires one (ex. the UAE) through a US office overseas. Now that will only give them the right to apply for entry, doesn't mean they will have to get in to the US even if the US government deems them suitable of a visa in the future.

Quoting B747-4U3 (Reply 51):
That attitude is fine, but the key question is where will it stop?

I know I quoted this twice in the same post but I now have another response to the same question. It stops when the US had had enough of the freaking panicking that had made 9/11 (I now dub it 11/9) successful as it has made the US paranoid of everything it seems. IIRC Al-Qaeda had the intention of not being able to destroy the US but to make the US destroy themselves through both bankrupting them though never ending wars and to make them destroy their freedoms from within.

I wonder how do you stand on the volume of cameras in London??

I do stand by that if the same attacks hit London and not New York and Washington the brits would not have been as paranoid as the US have been.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
Maverick623
Posts: 4726
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:13 am

RE: Proof That Homeland Security/TSA Are Protecting Us

Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:26 am

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 52):

I do stand by that if the same attacks hit London and not New York and Washington the brits would not have been as paranoid as the US have been.

I call baloney on that.

Remember, just a few weeks after the Tube bombings, when armed police chased down a completely innocent man, and shot him point blank in the head 7 times?

How about the anti-terrorism laws passed that would (should, these days the Supreme Court has been rather stupid about such matters lately) be ruled unconstitutional in the US?
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
lewis
Posts: 3586
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 1999 5:41 am

RE: Proof That Homeland Security/TSA Are Protecting Us

Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:30 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 46):
So no, I don't see the US refusing entry for someone making "jokes" on the internet extreme

The only joke in this guy's tweet was digging up Monroe's grave. The term "destroy" as it has been mentioned has nothing to do with destroying something, it means getting wasted and partying. It is a language issue which should have been accepted once an explanation was given, it was not part of a joke.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 53):

London has had experiences with bombs and casualties since the IRA era. Sure the bombings were a shock (same as in Madrid) and the UK (as well as the rest of Europe) had the same knee-jerk reactions to it. The difference is the mental state of the British after it. For Americans it was the first time that a foreign entity actually targeted civilians in the country and that caused a lot of paranoia and scaremongering. I think the British and the Spanish kept their cool a bit better.

I don't think there were people that condoned the shooting of an innocent man in the tube but I'd bet you the same would have happened in the US if the police were following a suspect for terrorism who would then start running when asked to stop. There is no doubt that US police officers are more trigger-happy than their UK colleagues.
 
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DeltaMD90
Posts: 8928
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: Proof That Homeland Security/TSA Are Protecting Us

Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:15 pm

Quoting lewis (Reply 54):
London has had experiences with bombs and casualties since the IRA era. Sure the bombings were a shock (same as in Madrid) and the UK (as well as the rest of Europe) had the same knee-jerk reactions to it. The difference is the mental state of the British after it. For Americans it was the first time that a foreign entity actually targeted civilians in the country and that caused a lot of paranoia and scaremongering. I think the British and the Spanish kept their cool a bit better.

I do agree, America has been largely shielded from terrorism and we'd react differently. But I don't think you can compare 9/11 to the IRA bombs or even the Madrid train bombing. 9/11 is the worst terrorism any western country has ever seen, at least IMO. They hijacked 4 planes, destroyed 2 huge buildings, killed 3000 people, and hit the HQ of the most powerful military in the world. It was a pretty bad attack, I can see how all these things passed.

But now that the dust has settled and everyone has cooled down, I think we need to seriously reconsider some policies
 
chimborazo
Posts: 350
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:51 pm

RE: Proof That Homeland Security/TSA Are Protecting Us

Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:28 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 53):
I call baloney on that.

We've been putting up with the IRA (and their mostly American backers) for years without becoming entirely paranoid like the US is.

Reacting in that way right after a terrorist incident HAD just happened and others were being averted isn't paranioa: it's a real situation and mistakes happen.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 53):
Remember, just a few weeks after the Tube bombings, when armed police chased down a completely innocent man, and shot him point blank in the head 7 times?

The so-called "War on terror". Sadly there are always innocent people hurt in war.
 
Maverick623
Posts: 4726
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:13 am

RE: Proof That Homeland Security/TSA Are Protecting Us

Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:00 am

Quoting lewis (Reply 54):
For Americans it was the first time that a foreign entity actually targeted civilians in the country

        

Maybe you forgot the first time Al-Qaeda tried to bring down the Towers? Maybe you forget that Mexican, Colombian, and Nicaraguan cartels have been terrorizing neighborhoods since before you and I were born?

Or, gee, maybe it's because Americans don't take kindly to being attacked on their own soil every other week.

Quoting lewis (Reply 54):
and that caused a lot of paranoia and scaremongering

Opportunists are everywhere. If you think that hasn't happened in the UK or Europe, think again.

Quoting lewis (Reply 54):
I think the British and the Spanish kept their cool a bit better.

Yep. Like I said, the British passed laws that are on par with the US, and the Spanish people decided to vote out their government and replace it with appeasing politicians.

Oh, did I mention that the Spanish attacks were specifically designed to influence their election? Apples to oranges.

Quoting lewis (Reply 54):
There is no doubt that US police officers are more trigger-happy than their UK colleagues.

     

Apples to oranges yet again. Most UK police don't carry guns. Your comparison is moot.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
lewis
Posts: 3586
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 1999 5:41 am

RE: Proof That Homeland Security/TSA Are Protecting Us

Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:22 pm

Happy that I gave you a good laugh.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 57):
Opportunists are everywhere. If you think that hasn't happened in the UK or Europe, think again.

They do exist, the general population just doesn't buy it that easily.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 57):
Yep. Like I said, the British passed laws that are on par with the US, and the Spanish people decided to vote out their government and replace it with appeasing politicians.

I said, kept their cool a bit better. Of course there was a similar reaction but as far as I know, these countries never went as far as the US in removing basic rights from their citizens for "suspicion" of involvement in terrorism in the name of the war on terror.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 57):
Or, gee, maybe it's because Americans don't take kindly to being attacked on their own soil every other week.

That is probably the problem for some few Americans, the fact that they think that other countries enjoy being attacked on their soil on a daily basis.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 57):

Oh, did I mention that the Spanish attacks were specifically designed to influence their election? Apples to oranges.

I am not looking for cause here but for effect, specifically the psychological effect in the population of a city/country that leads to whatever they decide to legislate and the approval of such laws. Ten years after 9/11 and you still have people in the US being OK with whatever laws the government puts out in the name of security, some of which are borderline unconstitutional. Same laws may exist in other countries too (UK), but not too many defend those laws there.

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