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NoUFO
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The NoUFO Gun Thread

Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:01 pm

While I am not too familiar with guns (fired a pistol only once, hitting nothing), I do think I can tell that this just doesn't look right:













By the way: The pic above is a screen capture (37' 21") of the incredibly boring and oddly hilarious film here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VxBLe9A2gXY#!
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DeltaMD90
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:28 pm

Quoting NoUFO (Thread starter):

A European... starting a gun thread!?  Wow!

jk  

Well actually, some AKs are built pretty nicely and not treated horribly, so know really knows how this thing shoots. I have no idea what he is doing but it wouldn't be the first time a North Korean ruler baffled me.
 
aloges
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:31 pm

Sod the gun, what on Earth is the matter with the narrator?!
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NoUFO
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:38 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 1):
A European... starting a gun thread!?

Oh, we are quite adaptable ... 

But I meant to say ... how he handles the gun while trying to put in the mag. I couldn't have done worse and that's quite telling.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:44 pm

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 3):
how he handles the gun while trying to put in the mag.

Oh haha I see. Btw, how hard is it for gun owners in Germany? I know a lot of crazy people shoot up everywhere and give gun owners a bad name, sadly, making it very hard for collectors...
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:45 pm

Rather at the beginning (around 12 minutes or so), there is a silvery pistol in a gift box. The box is handed over in a room with a huge globe - remembered me of Hynkel's office in "The Great Dictator"... 
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NoUFO
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:05 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 4):
Btw, how hard is it for gun owners in Germany?

No idea, compared to the U.S. it certainly is pretty hard. I am sure Jan (MD11Engineer) will be able to tell you.
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redflyer
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:12 am

Screw the gun...what I want to know is who cuts this douchebag's hair? Does he not look in the mirror in the mornings and realize he looks like an idiot?
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NoUFO
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:16 am

Quoting aloges (Reply 2):
Sod the gun
Quoting redflyer (Reply 7):
Screw the gun


Right, is that a North Korean hearing aid there? Boy, am I glad I am better equipped.
http://youtu.be/VxBLe9A2gXY?t=39m25s

redflyer, he wants to look like his grandpa Kim Il-sung, but I agree he looks like an idiot. Perhaps he is an idiot.
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canoecarrier
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:26 am

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 6):
No idea, compared to the U.S. it certainly is pretty hard. I am sure Jan (MD11Engineer) will be able to tell you.

Jan is quite knowledgeable about gun ownership in Germany. It's not extremely hard to own hunting rifles, but yes compared to the US more difficult. I looked for one of his old posts on it but they've been archived.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 1):
Well actually, some AKs are built pretty nicely and not treated horribly, so know really knows how this thing shoots.

That looks like a Zastava M76 sniper rifle. Similar to the Dragunov. If I'm right it would shoot the 8 x 57mm cartridge not the 7.62 x 39mm that the AK does.

[Edited 2012-02-02 16:30:10]
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DeltaMD90
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:55 am

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 9):
Jan is quite knowledgeable about gun ownership in Germany. It's not extremely hard to own hunting rifles, but yes compared to the US more difficult. I looked for one of his old posts on it but they've been archived.

It's too bad they don't have a collector's license. While I believe in the right to bear arms, I can see why a country would want to have less guns floating around, but there is a huge difference between 'some dude' having a gun and collectors... collectors are very knowledgeable on guns, gun safety, and usually aren't the type that goes blasting others.

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 9):
That looks like a Zastava M76 sniper rifle. Similar to the Dragunov. If I'm right it would shoot the 8 x 57mm cartridge not the 7.62 x 39mm that the AK does.

Yeah, I figured it might have been something different. Not too many scoped AKs, but it didn't have that 'Dragunov' look to it, so I got lazy and said AK. I know I say this about just about every gun you mention, and it's totally coincidence, but I was looking into eventually getting a M76 or Dragunov one day 
 
canoecarrier
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:33 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 10):
Yeah, I figured it might have been something different. Not too many scoped AKs, but it didn't have that 'Dragunov' look to it, so I got lazy and said AK. I know I say this about just about every gun you mention, and it's totally coincidence, but I was looking into eventually getting a M76 or Dragunov one day 

Cosmetically, they really aren't that different from an AK. Easy mistake to make. Besides, I could be wrong, NK has their own arms manufacturing plants. Some of those they copy from Russian or Chinese arms look a little different.
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:20 am

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 9):
Jan is quite knowledgeable about gun ownership in Germany. It's not extremely hard to own hunting rifles, but yes compared to the US more difficult. I looked for one of his old posts on it but they've been archived.

I guess the rules will be very similar to Spain's, so here you go.

Easiest guns to get are long guns for hunting (be it shotgun, rifle or carbine). You need to have a valid hunting license (which includes a simple exam on hunting practices and game species) and pass a simple medic test (eyesight, coordination, etc. it's very similar to the one you need to take for driving). Once you get everything, you go up the Guardia Civil who will make you yet another exam on firearms safety, in which you will also have to properly load, unload, load again and shoot two shotgun or five rifle rounds and hit a 50cm. target 25 meters away, observing proper safety procedures during the whole process. Once you get the exam done, you have to get a certificate from the Police stating you haven't been convicted and another certificate from a psych stating you don't have any severe mental illness.

The whole process takes about 15 days, and costs about 100 euro, from then onwards, the yearly renewal costs about 14 euro.

This allows you to own from the start a single shotgun (D license) or rifle/carbine (E license). Every time you renew your license you can apply for additional guns and/or additional class. All hunting guns are modified to have a 3-round magazine only.

Guns for target practice follow a similar process, but you have to be member of a shooting club and compete in a regional competition at least once every two years. You used to be able to just get a .22 with the first year, then apply for bigger calibers, but with the advent of IPSC you can now get a 9mm or even higher with your first year.

For collectors and antiques, there's a special license that makes i easier tto own multiple weapons (an unlimited number, actually), you have to prove they're properly stored (lockers, etc.) and you can shoot them on ranges, too, and keep one on your house, too. Muzzle-loaders and guns made before 1870 automatically qualify, for the rest you have to provide a reason why they're historically significant and/or unique (so, if you're a WW2 collector a Garand or Mosin-Nagant would qualify).

Then there are the guns for professionals (armed guards/police/bodyguards) and guns for self-defense which are quite difficult to get. On the first case, your employer does it for you, on the second you have to prove there's a significant risk for you (jeweller, any business that involves lots of cash and/or valuable items, famous person, you've been threatened by some group, etc.).

And that's pretty much it.
 
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larshjort
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:39 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 10):
It's too bad they don't have a collector's license. While I believe in the right to bear arms, I can see why a country would want to have less guns floating around, but there is a huge difference between 'some dude' having a gun and collectors... collectors are very knowledgeable on guns, gun safety, and usually aren't the type that goes blasting others.

It isn't the collectors that goes blasting others but people will get to know these guys have guns and that will pose a problem. I wouldn't have a problem with a gun collector license if the guns are disabled so they won't be able to fire again.

I am a member of a shooting club myself but I think there is a difference between owning a .22 cal target pistol or enven a single 9 mm used and stored on the shooting range, and having 10 large calibre guns lying around in the house.

In order to be able to buy a bolt action rifle cal. 22 or 6,5x55mm in Denmark you have to be an active shooter in a club. And for a pistol you have to be active in the same club for 2 years. The other possibility to get a rifle is to get a hunters license which requires passing a theoretical and a practical test and then a further test for rifle hunting. You will not be able to legally buy a semi automatic rifle in Denmark. And of course you need to have a clean criminal record.

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jwenting
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:34 pm

Laws vary wildly across Europe.
In the Netherlands they're extremely strict. Not sure about hunting rifles, but for the normal guy (who doesn't have a hunting license) it comes down to:
- apply for a permit to visit a gun club (yes, you need a police permit to VISIT one)
- go and apply for membership
- apply for a police background check as part of the membership application
- be an "active member in good standing" for a year
- apply for a police background check to be allowed to file an application for a firearms license
- select the weapon you want to buy, make, model, and serial number
- apply for a firearms license
- apply for a permit to buy that weapon
- store weapon at the club, you're not allowed to store it at home. You're also not allowed to transport it (to the club or anywhere) without additional licenses, so you'd best ask the store or someone at the club to do it for you.
- 5 years later you can apply for an additional license, after more police background checks, to transport the gun and store it at home
- when granted such a license, you give the police unlimited access to your home as part of the conditions for the permit, meaning they can search and seize at your property without a warrant or probable cause. You also consent to the police having the authority to revoke the license and confiscate the weapon with or without explanation of court order.

Suffice to say, very few people bother.
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canoecarrier
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:11 pm

I'm not sure I'm clear on this one point. You say that you can get a 9mm or greater caliber in your first year, which is typically a pistol or carbine round.

Quoting JJJ (Reply 12):
You used to be able to just get a .22 with the first year, then apply for bigger calibers, but with the advent of IPSC you can now get a 9mm or even higher with your first year.

But then you say this.

Quoting JJJ (Reply 12):
Then there are the guns for professionals (armed guards/police/bodyguards) and guns for self-defense which are quite difficult to get.

What's the difference? Is it the number of rounds the pistol can carry in the magazine?

Quoting JJJ (Reply 12):
Muzzle-loaders and guns made before 1870 automatically qualify, for the rest you have to provide a reason why they're historically significant and/or unique (so, if you're a WW2 collector a Garand or Mosin-Nagant would qualify).

Do they require you to modify the collectable/unique guns at all? A Nagant is a firearm I would think most countries would find as more of a hunting gun since the magazine only holds 5 rounds and it's a bolt action rifle, but the Garand is a semi-automatic 10 shot firearm.

Quoting jwenting (Reply 14):
Suffice to say, very few people bother.

No kidding.
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falstaff
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:25 pm

Quoting Larshjort (Reply 13):
I wouldn't have a problem with a gun collector license if the guns are disabled so they won't be able to fire again.


Then it isn't a gun, according to US law. I am a gun collector (I have over 40 guns) and I would never want to own something I couldn't shoot.

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 9):
That looks like a Zastava M76 sniper rifle. Similar to the Dragunov. If I'm right it would shoot the 8 x 57mm cartridge not the 7.62 x 39mm that the AK does.


I think that is an M76, not an AK. Not much of a point putting a scope on a AK-47.

Quoting jwenting (Reply 14):
You also consent to the police having the authority to revoke the license and confiscate the weapon with or without explanation of court order.


That doesn't sound anything like a free and open society to me. If the government doesn't trust its citizens to possess firearms at their homes and businesses then the government is untrustworthy.

Quoting Larshjort (Reply 13):
The other possibility to get a rifle is to get a hunters license which requires passing a theoretical and a practical test and then a further test for rifle hunting


What a great way to discourage people from hunting. The animal rights groups must love that. Hunting is a great sport and by making it so difficult for people to enjoy you limiting the number of people who will even want to give it a try. Hunting, fishing and other outdoor activities need to be encouraged not discouraged.
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canoecarrier
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:38 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 16):

Then it isn't a gun, according to US law. I am a gun collector (I have over 40 guns) and I would never want to own something I couldn't shoot.

Deactivated drill rifles are fairly common even here in the US. Jan I believe owns a few so he can practice gunsmithing and given European gun laws its much easier to buy one that doesn't shoot if all you're going to do is practice taking it apart. Although, I agree personally I would never buy a gun I couldn't shoot.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 16):
What a great way to discourage people from hunting. The animal rights groups must love that. Hunting is a great sport and by making it so difficult for people to enjoy you limiting the number of people who will even want to give it a try. Hunting, fishing and other outdoor activities need to be encouraged not discouraged.

In theory I don't have a problem with someone being required to take a hunters education class in order to get a hunting license. Growing up in Missouri I was required to take one when I was 13 or 14 in order to get a hunting license. Anyone born after 1966 is required to. It didn't require actually firing the weapon but it did cover:

You will receive a minimum of 10 hours of classroom training plus additional time for testing, practical exercises, videos and other classroom discussion usually taught in two or three sessions. Classes typically require 12-16 total hours to complete. Topics covered include the following:

Hunter responsibility and ethics
How firearms work and firearm safety
Wildlife identification, game care, survival and first aid skills
Firearm handling skills and hunting techniques
Awareness about wildlife conservation and management
Rules and information unique to Missouri.

At the end of the class you will take a written examination. You need a score of 80 percent to pass the course.


There are some exceptions to the requirement. I believe you are exempted if you hunt in a group and someone in that group has taken the class.
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NoUFO
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:53 pm

The thread has moved from a slap at a dictator to the usual gun-ownership discussion, but that's okay in my book.

Quoting jwenting (Reply 14):
meaning they can search and seize at your property without a warrant or probable cause

That doesn't sound right. I don' think police can seize your property without cause. In the end a court will have the last word, after all everything else would be in breach with some European laws. You probably meant to say that police can check if your guns are properly secured and seize them, guns and ammo only, if they are not (at least in the opinion of the policemen).

But gun ownership means little to nothing in most European countries, Germany included, Norway perhaps excluded. Would the U.S. adopt our set of regulations, I am sure there would be a huge outcry. I guess in Germany it is easier to find people who want even stricter gun laws than individuals who consider those laws too strict.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:30 pm

Quoting Larshjort (Reply 13):
It isn't the collectors that goes blasting others but people will get to know these guys have guns and that will pose a problem. I wouldn't have a problem with a gun collector license if the guns are disabled so they won't be able to fire again.

Booooo that's the fun of owning guns, to shoot things! (non-human things lol.) Maybe in Europe where guns are scarce, collectors run into problems. But I think it's easier just to get your own gun here rather than steal one.

Quoting jwenting (Reply 14):

Wooooooowwwww

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 18):
The thread has moved from a slap at a dictator to the usual gun-ownership discussion, but that's okay in my book.

lol, we can make fun of Kimmie more if you want  
Quoting NoUFO (Reply 18):
I guess in Germany it is easier to find people who want even stricter gun laws than individuals who consider those laws too strict.

Wow how could they be even more strict?? (rhetorical question more than anything)
 
canoecarrier
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:38 pm

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 18):
The thread has moved from a slap at a dictator to the usual gun-ownership discussion, but that's okay in my book.

So far it's been fairly benign as gun threads on A-net go though. Besides, the thread title and first post were fairly ambiguous.

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 18):
But gun ownership means little to nothing in most European countries, Germany included, Norway perhaps excluded.

I do find these threads interesting to research the cultural/legal differences of European gun ownership laws to the US. Some countries in Europe differ greatly than the Netherlands although they are restrictive. Italy seems to at least provide for hunting and collecting. They even have a collectors license that allows the holder to have an unlimited number of weapons (that fall under certain categories).

And the Swiss allow men in the armed forces to bring their automatic weapons home. Although for decades that's been fairly normal there because of their unique circumstances. Among collectors the Swiss Schmidt Rubin K31 is highly collectable.

I was surprised that Poland and the Czech Republic differ so much. Poland has one of the lowest rates of gun ownership in the EU and the Czech Republic is one of the few countries in Europe that allows citizens to carry concealed weapons without a reason.
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flyingturtle
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:55 pm

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 20):
And the Swiss allow men in the armed forces to bring their automatic weapons home. Although for decades that's been fairly normal there because of their unique circumstances.

Well, there are some myths around the Swiss soldier and his rifle...

Since some time, they can't bring the Taschenmunition ("bag ammo", a tin canister with 50 rounds) home. The firing pin too - because the .222 Remington can be easily purchased and fired in the SIG 550. I'm aware that it is a touchy subject for Swiss people, but most of the suicides and family murders were carried out with army weapons.

On the other hand, I haven't yet heard of any criminals using army rifles.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:19 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 21):
Since some time, they can't bring the Taschenmunition ("bag ammo", a tin canister with 50 rounds) home. The firing pin too - because the .222 Remington can be easily purchased and fired in the SIG 550. I'm aware that it is a touchy subject for Swiss people, but most of the suicides and family murders were carried out with army weapons.

Well I can't obviously argue with you (given your flag) but I thought I read that they had their fully functional automatic rifle, unmodified, and about 100 (?) or so rounds that they CAN'T open. They are there so they can fight their way to the nearest armory and get supplies and ammo there, and their emergency rounds are inspected to make sure they aren't opened.

...all according to the mighty wikipedia and how well I retained that information...
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:47 pm

Hello DeltaMD90,

Until 2011 (or 2010) they took home their unmodified and fully functional SIG 550. In autumn 2007 it was declared that servicemen have to return their 50 rounds of "bag ammo" (a picture is here: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taschenmunition ), and it was true that you had to show the unopened can of "bag ammo". But then, as of 2009, about 1000 servicepeople have lost their ammo...  (Yes, there are instances of servicepeople who have "lost" their SIG 550. Normal people forget their umbrella in the train, soldiers...  )

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 22):
They are there so they can fight their way to the nearest armory and get supplies and ammo there,

Well, because your neighborhood does not consist of the same military branch, you'd have to fight +/- alone an in a unorganized manner. And I can't think of a scenario where you had to fight through a military-controlled ammo depot and continue the fight there... short of a civil war. In WW II, free ammo was given to any able-bodied non-serviceman; but I don't know how and when the tradition of storing the rifle at home arose.

A funny quirk is that every serviceman has to do shooting practice at a range once a year. (And I thought that solitary rifle fire was a thing of the WW I trenches...) And then, they're allowed to use their military-issue rifle for civilian shooting competitions – and quite nobody shoots with Olympic rifles which are allowed in international competitions. Given the price of such a rifle (I found a number of 3000 US$), I think this to be an unfair subsidy. I'd love to get 3000 $ worth of mountaineering stuff. 

Well... I learned that I need glasses during a .22 long rifle competition...


David
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DeltaMD90
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:11 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 23):

Sweet, I was right 2-3 years ago lol. I loved Switzerland, still my favorite foreign country I've been to, and think they have a good thing going with their military/militia. I think the US should have something *voluntary,* I mean, the 2nd Amendment pretty much is talking about a militia. National training with firearms would undoubtedly make us safer (people would know how to use firearms safely when they come across them.) I say voluntary because I think anyone should be able to opt out of it... I'm all for personal freedoms
 
NoUFO
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:29 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 23):
"bag ammo" (a picture is here: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taschenmunition ),
Weisungen betreffend die Taschenmunition

You Eidgenossen call that bureaucratic gibberish German? 
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JJJ
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:52 pm

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 15):
What's the difference? Is it the number of rounds the pistol can carry in the magazine?

Nope, the difference is the first license I talked about is for target practice only. Theoretically you can only fire it in approved ranges and you're required to transport it and store it at all times in a carrying case or security cabinet, and gun separate from ammunition.

The other license is for self-defence, so includes concealed carry.

You will be charged if you use a target licensed gun for self defence, but usually you end up acquitted unless you're shooting unarmed assailants or shoot someone on the back.

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 15):
Do they require you to modify the collectable/unique guns at all? A Nagant is a firearm I would think most countries would find as more of a hunting gun since the magazine only holds 5 rounds and it's a bolt action rifle, but the Garand is a semi-automatic 10 shot firearm.

A historical weapon is a historical weapon. No tinkering needed. Not an easy license to get, but very flexible.
 
canoecarrier
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:48 am

Quoting JJJ (Reply 26):
Nope, the difference is the first license I talked about is for target practice only.

Thank you for the clarification.

Quoting JJJ (Reply 26):

A historical weapon is a historical weapon. No tinkering needed. Not an easy license to get, but very flexible.

Interestingly enough, I respect the EU countries for requiring guns to be kept in a safe. I don't necessarily think that would work here but it is sensible. I'm glad that Spain recognizes that some firearms do have historical value and shouldn't be modified.
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flyingturtle
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:41 am

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 25):

That wasn't mich, I schwöre!   

The names of some of your laws also leave me drooling... 
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 24):
Sweet, I was right 2-3 years ago lol. I loved Switzerland, still my favorite foreign country I've been to, and think they have a good thing going with their military/militia. I think the US should have something *voluntary,* I mean, the 2nd Amendment pretty much is talking about a militia. National training with firearms would undoubtedly make us safer (people would know how to use firearms safely when they come across them.) I say voluntary because I think anyone should be able to opt out of it... I'm all for personal freedoms

The main problem with our army is that it is still too big. Germany has one soldier for 392 inhabitants, France one per 267 inhabitants. We have one per 40...* but we still train for conventional warfare. We have 380 Leopard 2 main battle tanks, and 22 F/A-18C jets. Many tasks can only be solved in cooperation with our neighbours, but well... we're proud and independent. Some months ago, the parliament discussed reducing the manpower down to either 80'000 or 120'000 servicemen. With 40'000 newborn males each year, it is difficult to maintain a compulsory military service of such a size. Soon we'll arrive at a point where we have to dismiss people for medical reasons - just because the ranks are already full.

I propose a free choice between a civilian and military service, but policy is far away from that. With our WW II history, there are many taboos we're afraid to touch. Some left-leaning politicians have proposed copying the U.S. National Guard as a compromise between an expensive but small professional army and problematically large militia.

(Back in the Cold War, it was much worse with a 880'000-strong army. Yuck.)


Well, these were my 0.018 Swiss Francs...
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falstaff
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:25 pm

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 17):
In theory I don't have a problem with someone being required to take a hunters education class in order to get a hunting license. Growing up in Missouri I was required to take one when I was 13 or 14 in order to get a hunting license. Anyone born after 1966 is required to. It didn't require actually firing the weapon but it did cover:

I don't have a problem with hunters safety courses either. I have a feeling the courses in many European countries are a lot different than what we get in the USA.
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falstaff
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:11 pm

Quoting NoUFO (Thread starter):
I do think I can tell that this just doesn't look right:

He is doing it wrong....

I'll show him the right way!

My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
canoecarrier
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:54 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 30):
I'll show him the right way!

Show off. Is that a Polish or Yugo pistol there?

Quoting falstaff (Reply 29):
I don't have a problem with hunters safety courses either. I have a feeling the courses in many European countries are a lot different than what we get in the USA.

Without a doubt. Any of our European friends here able to copy/paste a short description of what one of those classes requires there?
The beatings will continue until morale improves
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:03 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 30):

Don't know who's SKS that is on the very left of that picture, but just advice for its owner... I would NOT shoot that grenade off... the grendade holder (pardon my untechnical term, can't remember what it's called) is very flimsy and mine broke on the first launch  

Guess I should've known better. But it was fun shooting the broken remains of the holder off at things. It was basically launching a huge hunk of metal at things. Lost it in the forest after the 3rd or 4th launch. Fun waste of $25, but a waste nonetheless lol.
 
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falstaff
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:20 pm

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 31):
Is that a Polish or Yugo pistol there?

Romanian, made in 1952.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 32):
I would NOT shoot that grenade off... the grendade holder (pardon my untechnical term, can't remember what it's called) is very flimsy and mine broke on the first launch

I have shot it a few times. I never had any problem. I used some East German blanks and it shot rather well. I tied bright orange streamer to the grenade so I could find it.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:30 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 33):
I have shot it a few times. I never had any problem. I used some East German blanks and it shot rather well. I tied bright orange streamer to the grenade so I could find it.

Hm weird, mine was all dented up the first time and broken the second time. And the first time it landed on a rotting log. I did try and attach a streamer to it on my last launch but it was very ghetto rigged and ended up launching the body off but ripping off the bottom ring I attached the streamer to lol. Might just buy that golf ball launcher you attach to the grenade launcher. My blanks are ex Soviet of some kind and I'm honestly amazed how far those things shoot
 
L-188
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:38 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 16):
I am a gun collector (I have over 40 guns) and I would never want to own something I couldn't shoot.

I can't say that. I have bought a rifle that I have no intention of shooting. In my defense it is (based on SN) a late July/Early August 1945 Type 99 Arisaka rifle. Because of material scarceness in Japane at that time the design had been modified to make it simpler to produce and use less steel. It is very scary looking especially when comparied to my pre-war 6.5 mm Arisakas.

But it along with my other four Arisakas do help tell the story of that rifle during the war. My other Type 99 is duffle cut.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 16):
Quoting jwenting (Reply 14):
You also consent to the police having the authority to revoke the license and confiscate the weapon with or without explanation of court order.


That doesn't sound anything like a free and open society to me.

Got to agree with Falstaff, it doesn't sound like a free society to me.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 16):
Hunting is a great sport and by making it so difficult for people to enjoy you limiting the number of people who will even want to give it a try. Hunting, fishing and other outdoor activities need to be encouraged not discouraged.

Agreed.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 19):
Maybe in Europe where guns are scarce,

Not in the Balkins and the East. When you hear of a mass killing in Europe these days as often as not it was with a weapon smuggled in from the East. Which makes all the gun control laws moot. It also means that in europe you are more likely to see crimes committed with what in the US would be a Class III weapon (full-auto/3 round burst). In the US those weapons are rare.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 21):
because the .222 Remington can be easily purchased and fired in the SIG 550.

5.56 should be the .223.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 32):
Don't know who's SKS that is on the very left of that picture, but just advice for its owner... I would NOT shoot that grenade off... the grendade holder (pardon my untechnical term, can't remember what it's called) is very flimsy and mine broke on the first launch

Did you use a standard found or did you get your had on the blanks that where intended to be the launch charge. The latter have a smaller powder charge
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
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falstaff
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:42 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 34):
Hm weird, mine was all dented up the first time and broken the second time

I only shot it four times, and it was all in my buddy's farm field, which was soft tilled up dirt. It had some dents in it though. I had two of them and shot them both twice. I only have one now, I gave the other to a friend.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 34):
Might just buy that golf ball launcher you attach to the grenade launcher

Do you havew a link to a place that sells that? I have never seen one, it sounds like fun!
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
canoecarrier
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:05 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 36):
Do you havew a link to a place that sells that? I have never seen one, it sounds like fun!

I've heard of this contraption before as well. Sounds like fun, they claim you can shoot a golf ball 500 yards.

http://www.bloomautomatic.com/index_files/page0004.htm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 35):
Not in the Balkins and the East. When you hear of a mass killing in Europe these days as often as not it was with a weapon smuggled in from the East. Which makes all the gun control laws moot. It also means that in europe you are more likely to see crimes committed with what in the US would be a Class III weapon (full-auto/3 round burst). In the US those weapons are rare.

I'm not sure I believe that. Remember the Oslo bomber? He traveled to eastern Europe to try and buy automatic weapons and came back empty handed. He ended up going through the long, legal way to obtain a Mini-14 and a pistol. The guy in the Netherlands that just shot up a bus stop also had his guns legally.

Although there are stories of military weapons in Europe going missing and later showing up in criminals hands. So, it's not all wrong.
The beatings will continue until morale improves
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:18 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 35):
Did you use a standard found or did you get your had on the blanks that where intended to be the launch charge. The latter have a smaller powder charge

I know there is a difference but I forgot which one I got...

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 37):
Quoting falstaff (Reply 36):
Do you havew a link to a place that sells that? I have never seen one, it sounds like fun!

I've heard of this contraption before as well. Sounds like fun, they claim you can shoot a golf ball 500 yards.

http://www.bloomautomatic.com/index_...4.htm

Yes, this link. Looks very fun lol
 
AirframeAS
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:45 am

Quoting falstaff (Reply 16):
I think that is an M76, not an AK. Not much of a point putting a scope on a AK-47.

I was thinking the SAME thing.... I thought I was hallucinating when I saw the scope, I thought I was the only one that noticed the scope. I have never seen an AK with a scope installed.

The guy handing the gun... WTH?! That is NOT how you handle a gun while trying to put in the mag. I wouldn't want to go shooting with THAT guy.   

Quoting jwenting (Reply 14):

Thank goodness I live in the U.S.!!!
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:12 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 39):
I have never seen an AK with a scope installed.

The funny thing is though, I've seen a LOT of AK's with a scope mount on the left side of the receiver. Attaches like this:



not sure if this is an AK-47, but the scope mount is the same.

I want a WASR-10 myself actually, just as is. Some people say they suck and all, but that's why I want it... I want the famous rifle in all its infamous glory. If I wanted a target rifle, I wouldn't get an AK  
 
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falstaff
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:10 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 35):
In my defense it is (based on SN) a late July/Early August 1945 Type 99 Arisaka rifle. Because of material scarceness in Japane at that time the design had been modified to make it simpler to produce and use less steel. It is very scary looking especially when comparied to my pre-war 6.5 mm Arisakas.

My Type 99 was made in 1945, by Mazda. It is 906 (according to the serial number) to the last one they made. I have shot it and it shoots great. I don't shoot it often dues to the high cost of ammo. I trusted this particular gun because it is very clean and was made by a well known manufacturer. The machine quality and fit & finish is a lot better than most late war Type 99s I have seen.
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb309/NWA747/1945ArisakaType99Japan.jpg

My uncle has a 1942 built Type 38, that my grandfather brought home from the war. It is a neat gun. My uncle killed his first deer with that gun.


Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 39):
Thank goodness I live in the U.S.!!!

me too... I went to a gun show yesterday afternoon. I didn't buy anything this time, but it is always fun to look.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 40):
I want the famous rifle in all its infamous glory

When I built my AK I made sure than the only external part that was US made was the reciever. The rest of my US made parts (to make it legal) are internal. back when I built mine you could still get and use the original barrel. I like how it looks all beat up and used, it even has a rust hole in the dust cover. Too many people want to buy these nice looking AKs, but nearly all of my guns are well worn so I wanted this one to fit in with the collection.
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
JJJ
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:55 am

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 27):
I'm glad that Spain recognizes that some firearms do have historical value and shouldn't be modified.

I forgot a key point: full-autos are considered war guns and are absolutely prohibited to the public. They're for public museums only.

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 31):
Any of our European friends here able to copy/paste a short description of what one of those classes requires there?

There's a written exam, with 20 random questions taken from a fixed list of several hundred.

They have different parts, gun parts, safety and maintenance, gun classifications, fines and penalties, registering and selling guns, etc.

Then there's a second part about game species, hunting periods, protected species, allowed and prohibited baiting methods, dog handling and good environmental practices.

Finally it's the practical exam, with a shotgun you shoot two slugs to a target 50m away. You are required to pepper the target properly. If you take the exam with a rifle or carbine, you have 5 shots to hit the target.

Part of the exam is the correct loading and unloading of the gun and keeping safe handling during the whole process.
 
canoecarrier
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:52 pm

Quoting JJJ (Reply 42):
I forgot a key point: full-autos are considered war guns and are absolutely prohibited to the public. They're for public museums only.

Contrary to what most people think, it is difficult to get a license that would allow you to own a new fully automatic weapon here.

Quoting JJJ (Reply 42):
There's a written exam, with 20 random questions taken from a fixed list of several hundred.

Thanks for posting. It sounds like something similar to what I had to take in order to get a hunting license in Missouri, except that you are required to fire the gun. That I didn't have to do. Although, I imagine that this course would be more difficult than the one I had to take.
The beatings will continue until morale improves
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:42 pm

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 43):
Contrary to what most people think, it is difficult to get a license that would allow you to own a new fully automatic weapon here.

I didn't think it was possible at all unless you were a dealer. You talking about importing brand new autos for your own personal use?
 
canoecarrier
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:13 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 44):
I didn't think it was possible at all unless you were a dealer. You talking about importing brand new autos for your own personal use?

We're getting a little into the fine print of the law now. I'll start by saying if you're in a state like California, forget it as state and local laws trump the Federal laws in this case. As an individual a machine gun must have been made and be registered as transferable prior to 1986. So, for you or I to buy a new M-4 is not legal. I believe as a firearms dealer you can possess dealer samples, so they can have brand new fully automatic firearms but not for personal use.

Now, if you have a lot of money to spend you could get a Curio and Relics license and you can buy historical automatic weapons for 10-100X more than you would spend for a semi-automatic rifle. That requires a $200 tax stamp and having that license, IIRC. Falstaff would know better than I. But, if it's over 50 years old you can buy it as a collectable, so you could buy an old Browning .50 cal or MG 42... if you can find one.

This is the list of curio and relic firearms:
http://www.atf.gov/publications/down.../p/atf-p-5300-11/atf-p-5300-11.pdf

Again, if you have Bill Gates money and have that license (which does require a background check, spot checks by the ATF, etc.) you can buy some interesting firearms like:

U.S. Coast Guard 37mm Deck Cannon
German, 15/20mm MG 151 Aircraft Machineguns (all variations)
Japanese, Type 97, 20mm Anti-Tank machinegun
Oerlikon, MG-FF and MG-FFM, 20mm aircraft cannon.

Those above require another tax stamp, destructive device I think, and are so hard to find only very, very wealthy people own them. I've been around firearms all my life and I've never seen anyone with anything close to what I just listed above. In fact, I've never even seen someone fire a fully automatic firearm in person.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:47 pm

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 45):
As an individual a machine gun must have been made and be registered as transferable prior to 1986

Ah ok. I knew about this, I thought you were talking about a brand new one. It is fun shooting off full auto, but I doubt I'll ever spend the tens of thousands of dollars to get one. If I had Bill Gates money I still think I'd spend it on many other things before getting them. But who knows...
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:55 pm

As for the gun shown in the video, I think that it is simply an AK74M fitted with an optical sight (the AK74M is factory equipped to be fitted with a scope). The muzzle brake / flashider looks like a standard AK74.
BTW, as per this week´s Spiegel magazine, the newsreader has now retired and been replaced by a younger woman.

As for German gun law, I had a hard week working more than 12b hours every day. I will write an essay as soon as I´ve had some rest.

Jan

BTW, Falstaff, the pistol in your waistband is pointing towards a sensitive place. I would use a normal holster....
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:08 am

Just watched the whole "documentary". I have to say that most of the women shown there look extremely cute!

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
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falstaff
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RE: The NoUFO Gun Thread

Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:49 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 47):
BTW, Falstaff, the pistol in your waistband is pointing towards a sensitive place. I would use a normal holster....


It's just for show in the picture, it isn't loaded. If it was loaded I wouldn't be carrying there with a round in the chamber.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 44):
I didn't think it was possible at all unless you were a dealer. You talking about importing brand new autos for your own personal use?


To keep things easy you need to buy/sell full auto weapons that have been in the country since 1968. They are ALL big bucks and WAY out of my price range. It can't be switched back to full auto either. I have two friends with M1919 machine guns. Both were exported at one period of time and came back into the country modified to be semi-auto. Making back into a full auto gun is illegal, but if it was one that was full auto since 1968 (you better be able to prove that) it is a C&R gun. You can buy a crank fire system for the M1919 and shoot it just as fast as full auto. It is fun and legal, but makes the gun really EXPENSIVE to shoot.

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 45):
Falstaff would know better than I. But, if it's over 50 years old you can buy it as a collectable, so you could buy an old Browning .50 cal or MG 42... if you can find one.


for the most part that is true. There are full auto weapons on the C&R list. The guns don't always have to be 50 plus years old either. Guns that get much of their value from their association to a place, person, or event can be on the list. A good example would be an East German Makarov pistol. Even if you had one that was made in the 1980s it is a C&R gun because its association with the DDR and the cold war. The Makarovs made for the commercial market, by the same factory in Suhl, after reunification are not C&R.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 46):
If I had Bill Gates money I still think I'd spend it on many other things before getting them. But who knows...


You don't need Bill Gates money, but you do need a lot. A buddy of mine flies down to a machine gun shoot every year, in Georgia and another in Kentucky. His Bonanza is loaded with enough guns and ammo to look like something out of movie.

Quoting JJJ (Reply 42):
Part of the exam is the correct loading and unloading of the gun and keeping safe handling during the whole process.


That is very important. I always wonder about how dumb people are when I read a story about somebody getting shot cleaning a firearm. Guns aren't very dangerous for the operator if you know how to use one correctly.
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