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stasisLAX
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E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:41 pm

This week Ford Motor Co. said it is ramping up development and production of its Transit commercial van to make it into a truly global vehicle. The plan includes building this new rear-wheel drive van in the U.S. by 2013, for which the company is revamping the Kansas City assembly plant where it currently builds the F-150 pickup truck. While Ford has yet to formally unveil the new Ford Transit, several (all-navy blue) Transit vans have been captured by the automotive press undergoing hot-weather and high altitude testing here in Arizona. A new Tourneo Concept van is making the rounds on the auto show circuit, and it is rumored that the new American version of the Transit will look similiar to it.

Big version: Width: 640 Height: 382 File size: 27kb
2013 Ford Tourneo (concept)


While the Transit has been a top seller in Europe for years, the company’s latest move marks its commitment to lighter, more fuel-efficient commercial vehicles here in the USA.

It also marks the end of the line for the Econoline series of large vans that Ford has been building here for decades.The Econoline Van (called the E-Series by Ford) last received major updates in 1975! Since that time, the Econoline has received only government mandated changes for passenger safety (airbags) or exhaust emissions - which means Ford has made a supertanker-load of profits on this old van.

The tried and true Econoline name was originally launched in 1961, making the Econoline one of the longest-running nameplate in American automotive history. A fixture to roving rock bands and tradespeople everywhere in America, it is sad to see this throw-back to America's past to leave the automotive "stage"

Source: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...0221/AUTO0102/202210431/1148/rss25

[Edited 2012-02-22 15:44:01]
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Kent350787
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:50 am

Looks like a cut and shut of almost any of the Ford Euro/Australian cars/SUVs with a MB Viano - not a great look.....
 
747400sp
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:03 am

Sadly, this means the end of V8 powered, full sizes vans from Ford. I wonder will the GMC and Chevy Savana and Express, get replaced by an Euro type van in the future, because the Ram Van and E-Series, did.
 
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:07 am

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 2):
Sadly, this means the end of V8 powered, full sizes vans from Ford. I wonder will the GMC and Chevy Savana and Express, get replaced by an Euro type van in the future, because the Ram Van and E-Series, did.

But hopefully its the start of much smaller and efficient but very torquey turbodiesel engines.
 
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:59 am

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 3):
But hopefully its the start of much smaller and efficient but very torquey turbodiesel engines.

Possibly, Ford seems the most likely US manufacturer to offer a wider range of truck turbodiesels across their commercial model line. The old Econoline, while damn-near indestructible, is way way too heavy to get decent fuel mileage. And light trucks now count in the CAFE standards, thanks to the previous SUV craziness here in the USA.
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BMI727
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:10 am

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 4):
And light trucks now count in the CAFE standards, thanks to the previous SUV craziness here in the USA.

That should read "thanks to the collective idiocy of our public servants."
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:08 am

Is the Mercedes/Dodge Sprinter available in the US?
 
BMI727
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:17 am

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 6):
Is the Mercedes/Dodge Sprinter available in the US?

Yes. It's now being sold as a Mercedes-Benz rather than the previous Dodge and Freightliner branding.
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garpd
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:54 am

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 2):
Sadly, this means the end of V8 powered, full sizes vans from Ford.

No, good riddance.

I'll never understand why Americans insist upon V6/V8 powered petrol guzzlers in every vehicle.

Here in the UK and most of Europe, we get by pretty well with a 2.0 or 2.5 L Turbo Diesel in our Transits. They're quick enough to get their drivers in trouble very quickly, even when loaded, but are efficient.

A V6 or V8 powerplant is overkill and just not in touch with the state of the planet's fuel reserves and current fuel prices.
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falstaff
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:17 pm

Quoting garpd (Reply 8):
A V6 or V8 powerplant is overkill and just not in touch with the state of the planet's fuel reserves and current fuel prices.

I disagree with you on the state of the planet's fuel resources, but I agree that the larger engines really aren't needed anymore. However you have generations of people who think they are. Car makers, including European car builders, have been telling the American public that bigger engines are better for years. I know many people who have no idea that small 4 cylinder engines can put out plenty of power. I have a friend who does automotive research for just about any company that sell cars in the USA and she says that many people still equate small engine with low power, particulary a four cylinder. My dad is one of those people. He rented a Buick Regal recently and was amazed by its power. He still remembers the 4 cylinder Buick he had back in 1990 that wouldn't move out of its own way.

Lets say you have a pumbler who drives a Ford E-350 with a 5.4 V-8. He has had many E vans over the years, with V-8s, and knows that is the van for him. Try selling that same customer a van with a four cylinder; that will be a tough sell, no matter how good the engine is.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 5):
That should read "thanks to the collective idiocy of our public servants."

No kidding... The market should and will dictate what people want to drive, not the government. Just look at how fast people got rid of the Trabants after the GDR was no more.

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
last received major updates in 1975!

There have been some facelifts, but not much has changed since then. 1975 was a HUGE change. The van went to a full frame that year. The E van was virtualy unchanged, other than headlights, from 1975 to 1992.
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PHLBOS
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:22 pm

The OP's pic is somewhat misleading with regards to the Ford Transit van.

Car & Driver and Motor Trend had the below-pic of what the Ford Transit could likely look like.



Addtionally, an exerpt from the OP's weblink (Bold emphasis added).

The Tourneo will not, however, be available in North America. Instead, Ford plans to replace its existing E-Series with a more fuel-efficient line known as the Ford Transit commercial van that will be built at its Kansas City plant starting next year. Details about the North American Transit will be announced later this year.

The North American Transit will be bigger than the European and Asian van, be heavy-duty, and like its predecessor will be rear-wheel drive.


Quoting 747400sp (Reply 2):
Sadly, this means the end of V8 powered, full sizes vans from Ford.

No info. has yet been revealed regarding what available powertrains will actually be available for the Transit.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/next-ge...ally-replace-e-series-van-in-2013/

Exerpt:
The current Euro Transit is available in a variety of different drivetrain, chassis, and cab configurations, including front- and rear-wheel drive, high and low roofs, various wheelbases, and numerous engines—including, of course, diesels. While Ford didn’t explicitly confirm it, a good chunk of that variety should make it here. Ford reps stress that the Transit will be a direct replacement of the E-series, which we take to mean we’ll get the rear-driver, as well as multiple wheelbases and lighter-duty chassis cabs. Diesels? Ford isn’t talking powertrains yet, but we’ll have another opportunity to dig for info when the Transit makes its North American debut, probably at the upcoming Chicago auto show.

Personal take: I believe that availability of a V8 for the N.A. Transit will STILL be available but maybe not across the entire line-up. Assuming that the V6 Ecoboost offered on the F-150s has no real issues; it's quite possible that the V6 Ecoboost could be the base engine for the Transit.

The most recent issue of Motor Trend mentions that the Transit will be initially sold alongside the E-series van for about a model year. This actually might be a wise move on Ford's end in case the Transit has any issues; they'll still have the old van to fall back on. Should there be no issues w/the Tranist; then they can retire the E-series without losing most of its customer base.
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:53 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 9):
Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
last received major updates in 1975!

There have been some facelifts, but not much has changed since then. 1975 was a HUGE change. The van went to a full frame that year. The E van was virtualy unchanged, other than headlights, from 1975 to 1992.

Yep, the outgoing E-Series was a product of a simple 3-step process:
1. Know your intended market;
2. Design and build a product that suits that market's needs;
3. Don't modify a successful product unless there's a really good reason to do so.
While E-Series vans don't get particularly good gas mileage, they still command a high price on the used market.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 5):
Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 4):
And light trucks now count in the CAFE standards, thanks to the previous SUV craziness here in the USA.

That should read "thanks to the collective idiocy of our public servants."

Agreed. SUVs exploited a loophole in the previous regulations wherein they were classified as "light trucks" even though they were clearly intended to haul people more often than cargo. A more logical and clear-cut dividing line would have been number of passenger seats versus cargo capacity: Anything that counts as a "light truck" must have a cargo weight capacity greater than and in addition to it's passenger weight capacity. More simply put, to qualify as a "light truck" a vehicle should have a larger percentage of it's GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating, the maximum weight to which a vehicle is certified to safely operate) devoted to cargo than to passengers.
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:15 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 10):
Transit will be initially sold alongside the E-series van for about a model year. This actually might be a wise move on Ford's end in case the Transit has any issues; they'll still have the old van to fall back on. Should there be no issues w/the Tranist; then they can retire the E-series without losing most of its customer base.

...or Ford could simply be waiting around until we elect a real man to the White House that understands the needs of small businesses and running a business and gut CAFE or exempt cargo vans & trucks from this silly law.

This thread deserves a tribute to the heyday of the Econoline van.
Ford was the only brand to make a factory made conversion van that didn't go through an aftermarket coach builder.
This is the Cruisin' Van.  





http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj96/Rush8track/000713s3.jpg





Crusin' package also offered in the Pinto wagon.
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj96/Rush8track/BY3L.jpg
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Many of these magnificent vans had these bumper stickers on them....





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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:09 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 12):
Ford could simply be waiting around until we elect a real man to the White House that understands the needs of small businesses and running a business and gut CAFE or exempt cargo vans & trucks from this silly law.

You are aware that Santorum and Paul are the only two major GOP candidates who haven't flip-flopped on their views regarding manmade global warming/climate change; they both haven't bought into that philosophy.
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:18 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 12):
This is the Cruisin' Van.

And THIS is the "Free Candy" version:


Sorry, couldn't resist.  

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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:42 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 13):
You are aware that Santorum and Paul are the only two major GOP candidates who haven't flip-flopped on their views regarding manmade global warming/climate change; they both haven't bought into that philosophy.

Newt Gingrich has stated that he wants to repeal CAFE laws.
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:47 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 10):
Car & Driver and Motor Trend had the below-pic of what the Ford Transit could likely look like.

This is the current Transit as sold in the EU, so the new one is probably more likely to take styling cues from the Tourneo concept, regardless of which market it's aimed at. I'd imagine a gasoline engine will probably make an appearance, and the EcoBoost V6 sounds likely if it's tough enough.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 10):

The North American Transit will be bigger than the European and Asian van, be heavy-duty, and like its predecessor will be rear-wheel drive.

I wonder how fundamentally different it'll eventually be... Transit is currently available in FWD or RWD (possibly AWD too?) here, and in a pretty impressive variety of sizes.

Incidentally, what does 'heavy-duty' imply in the US?
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:22 pm

So will this Transit be discontinued?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/FordTransitConnect-001.jpg
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Superfly
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:31 pm

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 17):
So will this Transit be discontinued?

All that needs is a big Nike swoosh on the side and some laces on the front and it would look like a giant tennis shoe.
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stasisLAX
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:26 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 12):
Crusin' package also offered in the Pinto wagon.

No freakin' way!!?? A Pinto Cruisin' Wagon? I know all about regular Pinto wagons (and Vega wagons!), but I never, ever knew Ford marketed a Cruisin' Wagon!! That's cool, in a laughable sort of way.

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 17):
So will this Transit be discontinued?

The current Transit Connect sold here in the US is to be sold as the "smaller brother" of the new Transit (which is larger and rear wheel drive, as mentioned in the opening post). The Transit Connect is built in Turkey, and imported into the USA - which leads me to believe that Ford will (at some point in time) assemble them here in the US. Ford now offers a electric version of the (FWD) Transit Connect, markets a taxi version of it, and now offers a Premium XLT 5-seat passenger version of the Transit Connect here in North America.
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:39 pm

Quoting IH8BY (Reply 16):
Incidentally, what does 'heavy-duty' imply in the US?


rear wheel drive (or 4x4, not all wheel drive) and can tow and or haul a lot of weight a long distance. It it has to take a beating and come back for more. For all the people who knock on American cars about how they break down all the time and don't last I can show you 100s of pickups in my town with 150,000 or more miles, including mine. They usually look like hell, but run and drive great!

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 19):
No freakin' way!!?? A Pinto Cruisin' Wagon?


Back in the early 1990s I saw one for sale in Ellisville, Missouri. That is the only one I ever saw in real life. It looked like the one in the ad too.
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:41 pm

Quoting garpd (Reply 8):
No, good riddance.

I'll never understand why Americans insist upon V6/V8 powered petrol guzzlers in every vehicle.

Here in the UK and most of Europe, we get by pretty well with a 2.0 or 2.5 L Turbo Diesel in our Transits. They're quick enough to get their drivers in trouble very quickly, even when loaded, but are efficient.

A V6 or V8 powerplant is overkill and just not in touch with the state of the planet's fuel reserves and current fuel prices.


If you are not too busy admiring yourself...

1. Economy cars, sedans, and light SUVs/wagons with four-cylinder engine options are 16 of the top 20 best selling vehicles, roughly 70% market share.

2. Turbo diesels are difficult to sell in the U.S. due to our particulate emissions requirements. There's another thread about why European auto manufacturers are pulling their models from the U.S. market.

3. Large block V6/V8 engines are very durable and last practically forever. Capital cost is very important to fleet owners, who are the primary operators of vans like the E-Series. Plus if you are someone like a church group, school, etc, you don't really care about fuel economy. Whichever club is taking the vehicle is going to pay the gas. You want something that is cheap to buy, cheap to maintain, and lasts as long as possible.

4. With your apparent knowledge of energy reserves, you are bound to embarrass yourself if you spout off something like that in front of real people. Reality is that we have decades to centuries of energy reserves suitable for transportation.
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stasisLAX
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:24 pm

Quoting dfwrevolution (Reply 21):
2. Turbo diesels are difficult to sell in the U.S. due to our particulate emissions requirements. There's another thread about why European auto manufacturers are pulling their models from the U.S. market.

European diesel emission standards nearly mirror upcoming US diesel emission standards - even in California. The Urea injection done by Mercedes Benz (the BlueTEC system) makes it easy to meet these standards with a little effort - and Volkswagen TDI system meets the standards without utilizing the BlueTEC method. It can be done, and will have to be done because the Euro emission standards and US emission standards (for diesel vehicles) are now basically the same. The specialized catalytic converters and particulate filters used on the VW TDI system are the way forward. VW does not plan to pull its TDI Beetle, Jetta, or Passat models from the US market - to my knowledge. And Chevrolet plans on marketing a turbo-diesel powered Cruze compact sedan next year, according to USA Today.

Source: http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2011-07-22-diesels_n.htm

[Edited 2012-02-23 15:25:37]
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PHLBOS
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:02 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 15):
Newt Gingrich has stated that he wants to repeal CAFE laws.

IIRC, an outright appeal of CAFE requires an act of Congress; always has, always will. Not to get political and as I stated it before multiple times, this upcoming election involves congressional and senatorial candidates as well; many people (not you) tend to forget that during Presidential elections. Reagan, when he was President, wanted to repeal CAFE as well but a bill to do so never materialized out of Congress; Speakers Tip O'Neill, Jim Wright, nor Tom Foley wouldn't let it.

The current CAFE bill, enacted in 2007, only allows the President to modify the future projected goals (which President Obama has since done TWICE since taking office).

The current House could vote to abolish CAFE tomorrow but the current Senate won't bring such a matter to a vote.

Enough of that, back on topic.

Quoting IH8BY (Reply 16):
This is the current Transit as sold in the EU, so the new one is probably more likely to take styling cues from the Tourneo concept, regardless of which market it's aimed at.

Personally, I hope not. That front end might work on a car or even a small SUV/CUV; but IMHO it looks too ugly on a full-size van. The current Transit's front end at least blends the styling cues of the smaller Transit Connect and the current F-150; the latter being a very familiar face in the North American market. Time will tell.

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 4):
the previous SUV craziness here in the USA

IIRC, large SUVs like the Expedition took a sizable bite into E-series based Club Wagon sales except for the 12 & 15 passenger models. Conversion van sales, which once had a much larger market, suffered as well.

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 19):
No freakin' way!!?? A Pinto Cruisin' Wagon? I know all about regular Pinto wagons (and Vega wagons!), but I never, ever knew Ford marketed a Cruisin' Wagon!!

You were alive and coherent during 1977-1980 were you not? If nothing else, if you didn't see one on the road; many magazine ads featured Pinto advertisements with the Crusing Wagon. Either ones similar to the one what Superfly posted or ones that featured a small pic of the Cruising wagon along with the other Pinto models,

Quoting falstaff (Reply 20):
Back in the early 1990s I saw one for sale in Ellisville, Missouri. That is the only one I ever saw in real life. It looked like the one in the ad too.

At last year's All-Ford Nationals in Carlisle, PA; there was a small area devoted to Pinto Cruising Wagons.

[Edited 2012-02-23 16:33:00]
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srbmod
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:05 am

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 19):
The current Transit Connect sold here in the US is to be sold as the "smaller brother" of the new Transit (which is larger and rear wheel drive, as mentioned in the opening post). The Transit Connect is built in Turkey, and imported into the USA - which leads me to believe that Ford will (at some point in time) assemble them here in the US. Ford now offers a electric version of the (FWD) Transit Connect, markets a taxi version of it, and now offers a Premium XLT 5-seat passenger version of the Transit Connect here in North America.

Don't forget they brought the Transit Connect here to replace the Ford Ranger truck as small fleet vehicles.

I think Ford is making the right call by bringing the Transit line to the US to replace the venerable E-Series line (The current design is as old as I am, and other than the federally mandated changes, most changes to the design have been minor changes to things like the grill or the interior.). While they are still the market leader with the E-Series, other competitors have chipped away at that lead. Look at the success Mercedes has had over the years with the Sprinter as it was sold under multiple brands. As a result, there have been aftermarket conversions to the E-Series vans to give it a higher roof to compete with the Sprinter (but said conversion is plug-ugly). Even Nissan's recent entry into the full-sized van market, the NV, comes in either a standard roof or a high roof. I'm beginning to see more and more companies with the NV van (especially the high roof) because it is not only cheaper then the equivalent E-Series, but also the Sprinter. GM has offered a Chevy/GMC van, but they are not as common as the Ford and the Sprinter. Fiat is supposed to be bringing some of their van lineup to the US as either a Dodge or a Ram.

My company vehicle is a 2005 E-150 that has 246,000 miles on it and has been a very dependable vehicle since I started driving it in May of 2006. Other than scheduled maintenance and repairs, the only other times the van has had to be put into the shop were to reprogram the ECM because it had some problem and to get the transmission rebuilt, which lost a gear after 140,000 miles. My original company vehicle was a late 90s E-250 box truck that they parked after about 300,000 miles due to a transmission issue that they felt wasn't worth the cost since they had planned to replace it later that year (which never happened) as it had really become a garage queen in the last year. They did look at the Sprinter as a replacement for that box truck, but after talking with a supplier they buy stuff from who had some and had mechanical issues with them, they opted to have me continue to use what was supposed to be our spare vehicle. Our service tech has a 2001 E-150 that is about on its' last legs and when it goes, I'm hoping that means I'll get a new van and he'll get my van.
 
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:42 am

Quoting TSS (Reply 11):
SUVs exploited a loophole in the previous regulations wherein they were classified as "light trucks" even though they were clearly intended to haul people more often than cargo

I'm not advocating closing the loophole. I'm advocating deep-sixing those horrendous CAFE laws.

The only thing worse than bad regulation is bad regulation without loopholes.

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 17):
So will this Transit be discontinued?

That's the Transit Connect, which I imagine will continue to be sold.
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:32 am

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 10):

Car & Driver and Motor Trend had the below-pic of what the Ford Transit could likely look like.

Yes, the Transit that has been sold in Europe for the last few years.

Anyhow, I'm glad to see the Transit coming to US shores- always has been one of my favorite vehicles.
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:24 am

Curious what kind of effect this will have on rental trucks such as U-haul, Penske, and Budget? A lot of them use variants of the the Ford E-Series and GMC's.
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GuitrThree
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:55 am

Well there is always the Nissan NV2500.... V6/V8/lowtop/hightop. And for those needing smaller they will roll out the NV200 to compete with the Transit Connect....
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TSS
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:06 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 25):
Quoting TSS (Reply 11):
SUVs exploited a loophole in the previous regulations wherein they were classified as "light trucks" even though they were clearly intended to haul people more often than cargo

I'm not advocating closing the loophole. I'm advocating deep-sixing those horrendous CAFE laws.

The only thing worse than bad regulation is bad regulation without loopholes.

On one hand I do agree that the CAFE regulations were an ill-conceived knee-jerk reaction to a relatively temporary problem of increased gas prices and fuel shortages during the 1970s. On the other hand, US residents have shown a marked propensity to buy the largest vehicles they can afford every time gas prices stabilize and then to scream bloody murder whenever gas prices go up again. As an example of this phenomenon, recall how US car manufacturers were severely criticized for producing so many large SUVs and relatively few fuel efficient compact cars the last time gasoline prices spiked in 2008 even though up to that point large SUVs were selling like hotcakes and compact cars were hardly moving at all.

With that in mind, coupled with the fact that repealing the CAFE regulations would be political suicide for all responsible parties the instant gas prices go up again, I think a reasonable compromise would be to close the SUV loophole and to adopt a CAFE standard that is realistic and achievable with current technology.
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Braniff747SP
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:09 am

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 28):
Well there is always the Nissan NV2500.... V6/V8/lowtop/hightop

What a horrible thing.

Whomever designed that thing had no taste and should be shot.

     
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BMI727
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:54 am

Quoting TSS (Reply 29):
On the other hand, US residents have shown a marked propensity to buy the largest vehicles they can afford

It's their cars, they can buy what they want. If manufacturers can sell it, the manufacturers can build it.

Quoting TSS (Reply 29):
then to scream bloody murder whenever gas prices go up again.

Part of having freedom is the freedom to do dumb things.
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Superfly
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:29 am

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 19):
No freakin' way!!?? A Pinto Cruisin' Wagon? I know all about regular Pinto wagons (and Vega wagons!), but I never, ever knew Ford marketed a Cruisin' Wagon!! That's cool, in a laughable sort of way.

When I was a kid, a guy down the street had one in that exact color. He had a Pinto Cruisin' wagon, a HUGE Afro and was popular with all the ladies. I wanted to be just like him when I grew up. I recently reconnected with his younger sister on Facebook. He no longer has his Cruisin' wagon and is now a gay hairdresser down in Miami.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 23):
IIRC, an outright appeal of CAFE requires an act of Congress; always has, always will. Not to get political and as I stated it before multiple times, this upcoming election involves congressional and senatorial candidates as well; many people (not you) tend to forget that during Presidential elections. Reagan, when he was President, wanted to repeal CAFE as well but a bill to do so never materialized out of Congress; Speakers Tip O'Neill, Jim Wright, nor Tom Foley wouldn't let it.

Republicans are expected to win the Senate and keep the House. If Obama is defeated, we can possibly see a repeal of CAFE. Even if Gingrich can't entirely repeal CAFE, at least he can modify and make changes in the favor of consumers and manufactures.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 23):
At last year's All-Ford Nationals in Carlisle, PA; there was a small area devoted to Pinto Cruising Wagons.

When I was at the Fabulous Fords Show at Knott's Berry Farm in SoCal, the Pinto section seemed to have the most interesting, eccentric and devoted car enthusiast. Looking at all the Mustang Mach 1s was rather boring compared to the Pinto fans.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 24):
(The current design is as old as I am

You're not that old.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 25):
I'm not advocating closing the loophole. I'm advocating deep-sixing those horrendous CAFE laws.

  

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 30):
Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 28):
Well there is always the Nissan NV2500.... V6/V8/lowtop/hightop

What a horrible thing.

Whomever designed that thing had no taste and should be shot.

Oh my God, I'm sorry I looked!   
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jcs17
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:58 am

The most important thing is that everyone is belted in. Crumple zones don't matter if you don't have a seatbelt, even if it's a lapbelt.
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PHLBOS
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:32 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 32):
Republicans are expected to win the Senate and keep the House. If Obama is defeated, we can possibly see a repeal of CAFE.

   IMHO, that's the best possible outcome on this issue.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 32):
Even if Gingrich can't entirely repeal CAFE, at least he can modify and make changes in the favor of consumers and manufactures.

IMHO, that would be a 2nd best possible outcome.


Quoting TSS (Reply 29):
With that in mind, coupled with the fact that repealing the CAFE regulations would be political suicide for all responsible parties the instant gas prices go up again, I think a reasonable compromise would be to close the SUV loophole and to adopt a CAFE standard that is realistic and achievable with current technology.

Actually, abolishing CAFE would translate into manufacturers being allowed to once again make larger CARS (including the full-size station wagon) without government fines, penalties and/or reprisals. A 5.4L engine in a Crown Vic would very likely post better overall fuel economy than the same engine does in an Expedition or E-series van because it isn't as tall as a van or SUV. But since a 5.4L engine in a car would trigger a gas guzzler tax (like it does with the Mustang Shelby Cobras); Ford did not offer the 5.4L on ANY of its Panther-based full-sizes despite pleas from state police agencies, performance enthusiasts and limo coach-builders.

The SUV boom was due, in part, to the unintended consequence of the CAFE laws. Many went to SUVs and now CUVs because they wanted a vehicle with more room than most cars on the market then and now could offer or needed a vehicle that could do heavy-duty towing.

Prior to CAFE, it was possible to purchase a mid-size CAR w/an optional tow package featuring a 6000 lb. towing capacity. After the first wave of downsizing took place in the late 70s; the mid-sizes were knocked out of contention and the best a FULL-SIZE car could offer was a 5000 lb. tow package after 1980. I still remember a 1978 pic. in Popular Science issue showing a '78 Country Squire pulling a 7000 lb. trailer with the caption that read, "After this year, only trucks and vans will be able to tow this trailer" Granted, Cadillac would later make a comeback on the 7000 lb. optional tow package for its '93-'96 Fleetwood; but by then it was too little/too late. Many buyers (mostly younger ones or ones not in the luxury car purchase bracket) had already since become accustomed to equating heavy duty towing w/only trucks and vans as opposed to cars.

As far as gas prices are concerned, much of these increases (both past & present) could have been avoided (or at least blunted) had both the President and congress allowed for more domestic energy production to take place years ago.

Politics aside, many vehicle manufacturers do bear some of the blame in placing all their product development eggs in one basket w/SUVs and neglecting most of its car lines (except for maybe the mid-size car models). One small car solution to address short-term (hopefully) rising gas prices some manufacturers proposed and done in the past was simply import a few of its overseas models. Without CAFE standards, with its stupid separate domestic & import (in terms of content) categories; this would've been essentially a no-brainer to the industry because it would not have involved costly re-tooling of existing plants nor a long waiting period to get more small cars available to the small window of opportunity.

Too often, we've seen the case that by the time newer small cars become available on the market the demand, as a whole, for them dries up usually due to stabilizing (or even dropping) gas prices accompanied with a stabilizing economy. In the U.S., at least, small car sales tend to thrive best during a recession. In more economically prosperous times, larger vehicles typically sell better; that's just a fact. As an example of such, after spiking in sales when gas prices last skyrocketed in 2007-2008, Prius sales dropped like a stone once gas prices fell from a nationwide average $4/gallon in the summer of 2008 to an average of $1.70/gallon by year's end. I'm sure their sales have upticked again with the more recent gas price spikes.

Anyway, back on topic.

The E-series will be missed. My father had a couple of Econoline vans durng the 80s. A black '79 cargo van, that ulimately wound up getting stolen in a shopping mall parking lot (it was never recovered) and a biege '77 after-market conversion van that still ran on LEADED gas. I drove both of them from time-to-time.
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PC12Fan
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:45 pm

Quoting jcs17 (Reply 33):
The most important thing is that everyone is belted in. Crumple zones don't matter if you don't have a seatbelt, even if it's a lapbelt.

I agree with your seatbelt remark, but not with the one regarding crumple zones. You hit a concrete wall in a car with no crumple zones, the impact energy transfers through the car to you. You absorb most to even all of the impact energy. (ouch) In a car with crumple zones, the car takes the brunt of the energy, drastically reducing what you would feel.
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falstaff
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:11 pm

Quoting dfwrevolution (Reply 21):
Large block V6/V8 engines are very durable and last practically forever.


Not always... There have been some dogs. The Cadillac 4.9 was better at the end of its life than at the beginning. The Northstar engine is a turd. Sure it is neat and efficient, but it is a huge pain in the butt to repair and overly complex. There are some great "small" engines too. The old GM "iron duke" four cylinder was great little engine. Those old Mercedes-Benz 3 Liter diesels were a fantastic engine, that was on the small side too.

Quoting TSS (Reply 29):
recall how US car manufacturers were severely criticized for producing so many large SUVs and relatively few fuel efficient compact cars the last time gasoline prices spiked in 2008 even though up to that point large SUVs were selling like hotcakes and compact cars were hardly moving at all.


I remember all the people saying things like "American companies aren't building the kind of cars people want". Yes they were. They were building all the trucks and SUVs they could and still had a difficult time meeting demand. Trying to sell small trucks and cars was very difficult and many times they were sold as a loss leader. The market changed very quick and they couldn't adapt fast enough. You can't design and build a car overnight. The Mercury Couger from the late 90s is a testiment to terribleness that happens when engineers cut corners to bring a car to the marketplace too fast. If fuel prices drop and the demand goes up again for big vehicles the same thing will happen. The US builders essentially gave the small car market to the Japanese and the Koreans and it came back to bite them. There was a book called the "End of Detroit" that came out around 2005 that talked about that and how it would come back to bite them and it did.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 34):
Prior to CAFE, it was possible to purchase a mid-size CAR w/an optional tow package featuring a 6000 lb. towing capacity. After the first wave of downsizing took place in the late 70s; the mid-sizes were knocked out of contention and the best a FULL-SIZE car could offer was a 5000 lb. tow package after 1980. I still remember a 1978 pic. in Popular Science issue showing a '78 Country Squire pulling a 7000 lb. trailer with the caption that read, "After this year, only trucks and vans will be able to tow this trailer" Granted, Cadillac would later make a comeback on the 7000 lb. optional tow package for its '93-'96 Fleetwood; but by then it was too little/too late. Many buyers (mostly younger ones or ones not in the luxury car purchase bracket) had already since become accustomed to equating heavy duty towing w/only trucks and vans as opposed to cars.



I remember around 2001-2002 Trailer Boats Magazine was reviewing cars that had a 3000lbs towing capacity and there were very few. They mentioned that back in 1980 something like 80% of the cars sold the USA could tow at least 3000 pounds.

A lot of people look at all those trucks and SUVs and say why do people need those? He in metro Detroit there are huge numbers of people who have boats and campers and there is just no way modern cars can tow much of anything. I used to have a 2000 Mercury Grand Marquis and I towed a 2000 pound fishing boat and trailer. Even back in the early 2000s it was rare to see a car of any type towing even a small boat. I remember back in the day seeing Cadillacs and Lincolns pulling good sized boats and campers. Those days are long gone.

My 72 Cadillac was like a 3/4 ton pickup in terms of towing capacity. The 472 cid engine coupled to the THM-400 trans and a massive rearend towed like no car could today. The giant drums and rotors could stop it good too.
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Tugger
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:34 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 34):
As far as gas prices are concerned, much of these increases (both past & present) could have been avoided (or at least blunted) had both the President and congress allowed for more domestic energy production to take place years ago.

Actually we have had a glut of fuel and oil in the USA for the past few years. That is one of the thing the Keystone XL pipeline is supposed to help with, to get the oil stuck in Cushing to the coast so it can be exported and get world oil market prices (so prices will go up domestically). Domestically, overall, the USA now produces approximately 81% of the energy it consumes. Fuel prices will not go down much even as domestic production increase. Even now, we are consuming 5% less fuel than last year and yet prices of up becasue refiners are closing capacity becasue the profits aren't sufficient due to the high cost of oil on the world markets and the low cost for fuel on those same markets.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 36):
I remember around 2001-2002 Trailer Boats Magazine was reviewing cars that had a 3000lbs towing capacity and there were very few. They mentioned that back in 1980 something like 80% of the cars sold the USA could tow at least 3000 pounds.

I am surprised that people here are blaming the decrease in towing capacity on engines and engine power, it's not. It's the change in car design, body-on-frame to uni-body, and the fact that manufacturers are now covering their transmissions with ten year warranties. A small engine with a good transmission can tow pretty much anything, provided the cars frame and transmission can handle it. I mean 18-wheelers have engines in the 400hp range and can tow 100,000lbs. A 200hp engine can easily tow 5,000lbs, provide the hitch is set up correctly and the transmission is built for it (proper gearing, trans cooler, etc).

Tugg
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BMI727
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:21 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 34):
The SUV boom was due, in part, to the unintended consequence of the CAFE laws.

  People bought SUVs and vans after CAFE and the gas guzzler tax for the exact same reasons they bought large cars before them. And the same with crossovers vs. station wagons with increasing standards.
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:56 pm

Oh man I remember a loong time ago like 25 or so years ago when my dad for one day brought an Econoline home for us to ride in from work, even though it had no side windows I remember how cool it was as a little kid to ride in the back of the van, for me it was like riding on a Star Trek: movie era (1979-1991) shuttlecraft.
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falstaff
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:57 pm

Quoting tugger (Reply 37):
I am surprised that people here are blaming the decrease in towing capacity on engines and engine power, it's not. It's the change in car design, body-on-frame to uni-body

Engine power doesn't mean much by itself. I used to tow my 4000 lbs boat out of the water with a 66 Ford F100 with something like 110 hp. It towed it no problem. Some sad little Honda with a similar amount of horse power couldn't have done it.

Those Volvo 744s from the 80s actually had a fairly good towing capacity, something like 3500 lbs, but they didn't have big engines.

You can have a stong unibody though. Chrysler full size vans were unibody for decades and a 1 ton Dodge Ram van was a capable vehicle.

Quoting tugger (Reply 37):
A small engine with a good transmission can tow pretty much anything, provided the cars frame and transmission can handle it.

My 47 Farmall A tractor can pull rather well and it only has 16 horse power at the drawbar. It doesn't pull anything fast, but it will pull. It is a good size engine for being only 16hp too; 122 cubic inches (2 liters).
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srbmod
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:51 pm

Quoting Jetsgo (Reply 27):

Curious what kind of effect this will have on rental trucks such as U-haul, Penske, and Budget? A lot of them use variants of the the Ford E-Series and GMC's.

Some of them already use the cab chassis versions of the F-350/450 for their vehicles, and going over the Ford Transit page on the Ford UK site, there is a box truck version of the Transit and I would be surprised if they didn't offer it when the Transit starts being sold here, especially since the Sprinter has long been offered here in the US in a box truck format.

http://www.ford.co.uk/Commercialvehicles
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:19 am

Quoting falstaff (Reply 40):
My 47 Farmall A tractor can pull rather well and it only has 16 horse power at the drawbar. It doesn't pull anything fast, but it will pull. It is a good size engine for being only 16hp too; 122 cubic inches (2 liters).

Indeed, you really don't need alot of horsepower to tow anything - lots of pound feet of TORQUE is one needs to tow anything weighty. This is where turbocharged diesel motors shine - those engines can pull tree stomps out of the ground, provided the vehicle's frame is strong enough to take such abuse!  
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Superfly
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:50 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 40):
Engine power doesn't mean much by itself. I used to tow my 4000 lbs boat out of the water with a 66 Ford F100 with something like 110 hp. It towed it no problem. Some sad little Honda with a similar amount of horse power couldn't have done it.

Those Volvo 744s from the 80s actually had a fairly good towing capacity, something like 3500 lbs, but they didn't have big engines.

Let's not forget the AMC Eagle 4WD station wagon and sedans of the 1980s.
Those 258cu" inline 6 only had 110HP and had lots of tourq and could pull small trailers.

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 42):
This is where turbocharged diesel motors shine - those engines can pull tree stomps out of the ground,

That is true but those are large diesel engines you're talking about. A Ford F-350 with a 7.3 liter Powerstroke diesel engine can pull tree stomps out but I doubt a Volkswagen TDI 4banger could do it.
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GuitrThree
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:59 pm

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 30):
What a horrible thing.

Whomever designed that thing had no taste and should be shot.
Quoting Superfly (Reply 32):
Oh my God, I'm sorry I looked!


Agree... Not very attractive, but when you a buy a work van, you don't buy it for looks. The high-top vans are really, really, ugly, but when you're inside of one, STANDING UP and working in the back on what you need to, the view is much better! Also, vans such as these are excellent vehicles for wrapping and advertising. The sides are so large what ever you put on the exterior, people will see. There is no doubt. The NV2500's are an excellent way to get close to a Dodge/Benz Sprinter van without the extraordinary high price.

The Ford Transit Connects are just as bad when it comes to looks. But again, if you have to deliver stuff to a downtown area with very tight spaces, the TC is the vehicle of choice hands down. They carry a large load thanks to it's ugly high cargo area, which again, provides very valuable advertising square footage.

Vans are for working in and out of. They are not there to win a beauty contest!
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KaiGywer
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:22 pm

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 44):
The high-top vans are really, really, ugly

Neither one is a looker, but I find that the high top actually looks better (at least on pics, never seen either one live). It looks more proportioned.
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Flighty
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:54 am

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 2):

Sadly, this means the end of V8 powered, full sizes vans from Ford. I wonder will the GMC and Chevy Savana and Express, get replaced by an Euro type van in the future, because the Ram Van and E-Series, did.

Fortunately, that end was delayed for 20+ years beyond the necessary length... hope there are enough built LOL...

the new model will get 50-100% better fuel mileage right out of the box. US manufacturers have absurd import quotas and tariffs on full size vans, so that is why competition was so limited for this many years.
 
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KLASM83
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:23 am

Having driven recent 15-pax models of the Econoline and Express vans, I must say that this is a bit of a surprise. Of the two, I liked the Ford better, as it seemed to have an overall greater quality in comfort, ride and handling. That, and the engine could get me out of a lot of the snow we've been having around up here in GFK in the last few years.

Hopefully, the new Transit will fill the void, but I really don't see anything from the Blue Oval to top it, yet.
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Braniff747SP
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:47 pm

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 44):

Vans are for working in and out of. They are not there to win a beauty contest!

Of course not- but there is not reason to go out of your way and make it ugly.
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Superfly
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RE: E-Series Van Dead, Ford Launches New Transit Van

Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:52 pm

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 48):
Of course not- but there is not reason to go out of your way and make it ugly.

The 2013 Ford Tourneo (concept) seems to be doing just that.
Why is it trying to look sporty with the low in front, high in the back wedge design? I hate it!
Bring back the Concorde

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