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United Airline
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Will Nokia Regain Its Former Glory?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:32 am

I am a big fan of Nokia and when it comes to quality, Nokia is superb.

Is Nokia still the largest mobile maker overall? I mean if you count all kinds of cell phones (smart phones and non smart phones).

Will it ever regain its former glory? Will they ever become no 1 again? What has gone so wrong with them? People (including big fans) are all switching to I phone, Samsung, LG, HTC and others etc....

Will Lumia bring in a miracle? What's up with Lumia?

Any Nokia users here?

[Edited 2012-04-28 21:33:28]
 
PHX787
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RE: Will Nokia Regain Its Former Glory?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:00 am

Well, as a flourishing meme right now, I think Nokia is getting a lot of attention from the internet community....we will have to wait and see what kind of results will come out of this year.

Or else, we may see a frustrated Finnish CEO do this:


Poor stairs!
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MD11Engineer
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RE: Will Nokia Regain Its Former Glory?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:05 am

Nokia lost a lot of sales in Germany after they first took lots of government subsidies to set up a factory here, and after a few years closed this factory to set up a new one in IIRC Romania, again based on subsidies.

Jan
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NZ107
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RE: Will Nokia Regain Its Former Glory?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:22 am

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
Will it ever regain its former glory? Will they ever become no 1 again?

I doubt it. Blackberry/RIM left things too late and Nokia weren't quick enough to do the same. The thing about the Android platform is that it's running on a lot of brands. If there was a decent touchscreen Symbian OS that attracted some phone companies to put that onto their phones, maybe it would be a different story. But with the Android system and iOS being so dominant, it'd take a lot to overcome. I don't think that Windows Phone will last too long unless they just keep it going for prestige reasons.
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United Airline
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RE: Will Nokia Regain Its Former Glory?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:39 am

Why doesn't Nokia just go Android? Geeeeeeeeeeeez.

Is Nokia still the largest overall?

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 3):
I don't think that Windows Phone will last too long unless they just keep it going for prestige reasons.

Why? Isn't Window the most popular computer platform? If they can make Nokia Lumia phones like PCs then perhaps they can become no 1 again?
 
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zkojq
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RE: Will Nokia Regain Its Former Glory?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:08 am

As much as I'd like to see Nokia at number one again, I don't think it is going to happen. Number one position will be fought over by Samsung and Apple for many years to come, as they seem to be the ones with all the market power.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 4):
Why doesn't Nokia just go Android? Geeeeeeeeeeeez.

I agree completely. While I don't specifically dislike Symbian the fact is that it is slow, looks dated (graphically) and supports very few apps (seriously, Nokia's OVI store is a complete joke - in my view there are less than 10 apps that are actually worth buying). While Symbian might be fine for people who are using smart-phones for the first time, it certainly isn't going to attract market-share. A switch to android could solve this... ... but instead Nokia is switching to Windows 8.

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
Any Nokia users here?

Very much so. Ive only ever owned Nokias and don't plan on changing that anytime soon (hopefully getting a Lumia at some point in the not so distant future).
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AirPacific747
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RE: Will Nokia Regain Its Former Glory?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:40 am

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
Is Nokia still the largest mobile maker overall? I mean if you count all kinds of cell phones (smart phones and non smart phones).

No. Samsung just surpassed Nokia as the world's largest cell phone manufacturer.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 4):
Why doesn't Nokia just go Android? Geeeeeeeeeeeez.

Because Android in many ways is lacking behind.. It's really not very userfriendly and it's a bit nerdy. Have you tried using Windows Phone? It is much more user friendly and smooth.

By the way I have an Android phone, and used to have a WP.. the reason why I switched? Because WP is still not very mature. It is still lacking apps and more features like a higher screen resolution.. once many of these issues are solved, then I will be back on the WP platform. Looking a lot forward to WP8.
 
Klaus
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RE: Will Nokia Regain Its Former Glory?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:48 am

As far as I'm aware Samsung has already surpassed Nokia by total volume shipped.

After his predecessors already got Nokia into decline by failing to develop a viable smartphone platform, the current CEO Stephen Elop (ex Microsoft) has basically bet Nokia's existence on Microsoft's Windows Phone platform, which so far has failed to find much interest in the market (the numbers are still declining).

Nokia had used the earlier market opportunity rather well when it was primarily about making mobile phones ubiquitous, mainly supplying the mobile network providers with what they wanted. Their problem is that that segment is increasingly taken over by Android (and particularly by Samsung), with Apple running a completely different business model, effectively cutting the providers out of the loop entirely apart from having to subsidize the devices.

The position Nokia once had is already gone – they are no longer a platform company themselves; They have become a hardware manufacturer dependent on Microsoft's platform.

If Android should run into major problems down the road, they might get an opportunity to recover somewhat, but their earlier glory days won't come back. The market opportunity they had been relying on is just no longer there.
 
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OA260
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RE: Will Nokia Regain Its Former Glory?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:43 am

Nokia lost the market and they had a very bad attempt at the smartphone market namely the N8 ! The newer smartphones are much better but they will find it hard to get back to their former glory.

Samsung are the ones to watch these days . Apple is in a league of their own .
 
ltbewr
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RE: Will Nokia Regain Its Former Glory?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:27 pm

The Nokia brand (along with Erisson/Sony) is pretty much dead in the USA with Samsung, LG, HTC and other Japanese/Chinese brands taking over.
 
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RE: Will Nokia Regain Its Former Glory?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:10 pm

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 3):
I doubt it. Blackberry/RIM left things too late and Nokia weren't quick enough to do the same. The thing about the Android platform is that it's running on a lot of brands. If there was a decent touchscreen Symbian OS that attracted some phone companies to put that onto their phones, maybe it would be a different story. But with the Android system and iOS being so dominant, it'd take a lot to overcome. I don't think that Windows Phone will last too long unless they just keep it going for prestige reasons.

Pretty much says it all.

I'll add that I think M$ will stay in the game. It's too important a game to not keep trying. The main problem is the lack of critical mass of developers, but at least M$ has some hope of getting more on board whereas Blackberry and Symbian really didn't. Also M$ has the huge cash flow of Windows and Office that lets them stay in the game.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 9):
The Nokia brand (along with Erisson/Sony) is pretty much dead in the USA

It's strange how a company that's generally viewed quite positively (Nokia) chose to partner with companies who are quite often viewed as being scummy (M$, Sony).
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Pellegrine
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RE: Will Nokia Regain Its Former Glory?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:15 pm

No.

...
...
...
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kngkyle
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RE: Will Nokia Regain Its Former Glory?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:09 pm

 
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RE: Will Nokia Regain Its Former Glory?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:22 pm

Quoting kngkyle (Reply 12):
kngkyle

LMFAO!
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RE: Will Nokia Regain Its Former Glory?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:34 pm

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
Will Nokia Regain Its Former Glory?

You mean the one of being Finland's foremost papermill and tire manufacturer?
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
United Airline
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RE: Will Nokia Regain Its Former Glory?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:57 pm

Will Microsoft takeover Nokia one day as predicted earlier?
 
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RE: Will Nokia Regain Its Former Glory?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:54 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 14):
You mean the one of being Finland's foremost papermill and tire manufacturer?

It seems they are heading that way! 
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HELyes
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RE: Will Nokia Regain Its Former Glory?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:37 pm

In Finland they say Nokia become complacent during their years of glory and they didn't act fast enough when the markets were changing. Last year a new CEO Stephen Elop with Microsoft backround was hired to change the course. It will be really interesting to see what will be their future.

Luckily Nokia doesn't play that big role in the Finnish economy anymore it once did, but sure it still is a big employer. It could be game industry will be the next big thing in Finland, Angry Birds being the brightest star right now.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):
we may see a frustrated Finnish CEO do this:

Their CEO is Canadian  
Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 14):
You mean the one of being Finland's foremost papermill and tire manufacturer?

Actually Nokian Tyres have always been there, specialized in winter tyres. Nokia is a small industrial town and has given name to several companies and products, starting from Nokia rubber boots  
 
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RE: Will Nokia Regain Its Former Glory?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:30 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 16):
It could be game industry will be the next big thing in Finland, Angry Birds being the brightest star right now.

I'm glad a Finnish teenager decided to write an operating system   

It's amazing how many billions of dollars of wealth Linux has created.

Quoting HELyes (Reply 17):
starting from Nokia rubber boots


:D
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
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elbandgeek
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RE: Will Nokia Regain Its Former Glory?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:33 pm

Short answer: yes

Anyone who plays the "they should have gone with android" line is completely missing the point. Android is a commodity and they would just blend into the crowd.
Windows Phone's biggest problem up until now was that manufacturers have refused to bet on it with high end hardware and carriers have just refused to push it, sometimes deliberatly sabotaging it. It's superior to Android in every way except for quantity of apps which will turn as soon as adoption hits critical mass.
Nokia will make that critical mass happen because they are putting everything in and are producing drool-worthy handsets in every segment of the market. Right now the Lumia 900 is the hottest phone out there and they ended up pushing back the European launch because of backorders in the US. AT&T actually chose to push it hard and while the numbers won't be in for awhile, things are clearly going well. Even Verizon, who up until this point has pretty much run their mouth off about how much it's "too little too late" and "doesn't have LTE" (after the 900 had already been announced with LTE) are now promising a huge push once Apollo is released. Once the two largest carriers in the world are actually on board you'll see things change very quickly. In any case, the Microsoft+Nokia realtionship gets an amazing OS on amazing hardware which is just what both companies needed.
And don't forget Microsoft has deep pockets. The mobile space is critical to their overall consumer ecosystem and they won't throw in the towel under any circumstances.
 
StuckInCA
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RE: Will Nokia Regain Its Former Glory?

Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:33 am

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 6):
Because Android in many ways is lacking behind.. It's really not very userfriendly and it's a bit nerdy. Have you tried using Windows Phone? It is much more user friendly and smooth.

Windows phone has too few apps at this time. The end.
 
elbandgeek
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RE: Will Nokia Regain Its Former Glory?

Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:55 am

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 20):
Windows phone has too few apps at this time. The end.

Do elaborate
I assume you have 400,000 apps installed on your phone?
Give us all a number, an exact number of apps at which point it will no longer have "too few"
 
StuckInCA
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RE: Will Nokia Regain Its Former Glory?

Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:59 am

Quoting elbandgeek (Reply 21):
Do elaborate
I assume you have 400,000 apps installed on your phone?
Give us all a number, an exact number of apps at which point it will no longer have "too few"

Many of the apps I've installed on my android phone do not exist for windows phone. When that isn't the case any longer then it won't have too few. I could probably accomplish the same tasks with a web browser on the phone, but it's less convenient.

Clear enough?
 
CXfirst
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RE: Will Nokia Regain Its Former Glory?

Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:19 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 3):
I don't think that Windows Phone will last too long unless they just keep it going for prestige reasons.

Well, it seems microsoft will shorten the gap between mobile, tablet and pc with W8. So I don't think they'll drop Windows Mobile, and development costs should also fall as they become closer and closer to the same thing.

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 6):
Because Android in many ways is lacking behind.. It's really not very userfriendly and it's a bit nerdy. Have you tried using Windows Phone? It is much more user friendly and smooth.

Sales figures seem to say otherwise. Although Android can be customized much more than the others, and therefore might seem nerdy and only for those who know how to customize their phone. However, there are a number of handsets that work incredibly well right out of the box, and won't be a complicated device for the commoner.

Quoting elbandgeek (Reply 21):

I assume you have 400,000 apps installed on your phone?
Give us all a number, an exact number of apps at which point it will no longer have "too few"

400,000 seems big but it isn't. The day that we'll see "get the X app for iOS, Android and Windows Mobile" everywhere, then the number of apps is good enough. At the moment, there are too many holes in the selection. Almost like there was for Android some years ago. App developers 3 years ago were developing for iOS as standard, now they develop for iOS and android as standard, but the day app developers see Windows as the same level of importance, then Windows Mobile will see real growth.

It is a vicious cycle that can be hard to break. App developers need users, while users need the apps, someone has to start first.

Android got past this due to iOS being a closed platform, Google had the might of every non-Apple phone developer willing to sell Android, but Windows seems to only have Nokia, while the other manufactures are focusing on Android.

-CXfirst
 
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nighthawk
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RE: Will Nokia Regain Its Former Glory?

Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:28 am

Quoting elbandgeek (Reply 19):
Anyone who plays the "they should have gone with android" line is completely missing the point. Android is a commodity and they would just blend into the crowd.
Windows Phone's biggest problem up until now was that manufacturers have refused to bet on it with high end hardware and carriers have just refused to push it, sometimes deliberatly sabotaging it. It's superior to Android in every way except for quantity of apps which will turn as soon as adoption hits critical mass.
Quoting CXfirst (Reply 23):
Well, it seems microsoft will shorten the gap between mobile, tablet and pc with W8. So I don't think they'll drop Windows Mobile, and development costs should also fall as they become closer and closer to the same thing.

CXfirst - this is going to be the key. With Windows 8 pushing the Metro interface by default, you now have a situation where developers can write a single app that will run on PC's, tablets and phones. When this happens, I think you may see a massive explosion of apps available for the windows platform.

I think the windows phone market share may grow considerably next year once Windows 8 is launched.
 
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RE: Will Nokia Regain Its Former Glory?

Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:53 am

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 23):
Well, it seems microsoft will shorten the gap between mobile, tablet and pc with W8.

It could be, what really matters to developers is if the programming interfaces have converged or not.

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 23):
development costs should also fall as they become closer and closer to the same thing.

Again, it depends. If you're already a windows shop, perhaps, but most mobile app shops currently are not, so it'll be a 3rd platform requiring new/different development, testing, sales and support resources.

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 23):
App developers 3 years ago were developing for iOS as standard, now they develop for iOS and android as standard, but the day app developers see Windows as the same level of importance, then Windows Mobile will see real growth.

It is a vicious cycle that can be hard to break. App developers need users, while users need the apps, someone has to start first.

M$ seems to think Nokia is the right place to start, and has money and staying power.

Both M$ and Nokia need each other desperately. It remains to be seen if customers or carriers need either of them.

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 24):
I think the windows phone market share may grow considerably next year once Windows 8 is launched.

Yet we have threads here with wailing and the gnashing of teeth over the retirement of Windows 95!

It's no guarantee that the world will embrace Metro/W8. In the Linux world, the most popular distro, Ubuntu, took a radical change in their desktop in terms of appearance and workflow, and it got kicked to the curb. In the M$ world, we could see customers park on W7 just like they did on W95.

I think it's damn hard to get one interface to be accepted across mobiles, tablets and desktops. It'll be interesting to see how well M$ does at this.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
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AirPacific747
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RE: Will Nokia Regain Its Former Glory?

Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:01 am

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 23):
Sales figures seem to say otherwise. Although Android can be customized much more than the others, and therefore might seem nerdy and only for those who know how to customize their phone. However, there are a number of handsets that work incredibly well right out of the box, and won't be a complicated device for the commoner.

Sales numbers don't tell the entire story. For a long time, people have had no alternative to iOS than Android if they were looking for a smartphone. Now when there is an alternative, it will take time to spread the message to create awareness. I am sure that WP will get some traction once WP8 rolls out.. at that time, there will probably be 150.000-200.000 apps and now you have the most fluid OS with a lot of features as well..

The reason why I am sure of this is, that when I compare WP to Android or even iOS.. the WP apps are much more beautiful and the OS is more user friendly.. not many people are aware of this yet.. things will take time but if both Nokia and MS are truly committed, then they will be rewarded soon enough.
 
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nighthawk
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RE: Will Nokia Regain Its Former Glory?

Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:17 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 25):
Again, it depends. If you're already a windows shop, perhaps, but most mobile app shops currently are not, so it'll be a 3rd platform requiring new/different development, testing, sales and support resources.

While this is true, the number of "windows shops" dwarfs the number of "mobile app shops" considerably, that is the key. With Windows 8 being available on a mobile phone, they open up phone development to a whole new audience of developers.

Windows 8 metro allows applications to be built in javascript and html5, which also opens up development to all the web shops of the world, another massive audience that can now develop native applications without re-training.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 25):
It's no guarantee that the world will embrace Metro/W8.

yes, that is one of the stumbling blocks. Personally I can see Metro working for the home user and on tablets, the jury is out on the workplace though. But its the home and tablet market which is going to drive the development of apps anyway...

I think microsoft may have the right strategy, at least for the consumer market.
 
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RE: Will Nokia Regain Its Former Glory?

Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:04 pm

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 27):
While this is true, the number of "windows shops" dwarfs the number of "mobile app shops" considerably, that is the key. With Windows 8 being available on a mobile phone, they open up phone development to a whole new audience of developers.

It can, presuming desktop apps translate well to mobile apps, which I'm told is not the case, but I'm not personally an expert in this area.

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 27):
Windows 8 metro allows applications to be built in javascript and html5, which also opens up development to all the web shops of the world, another massive audience that can now develop native applications without re-training.

Again, presuming such webapps translate well to the mobile environment.

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 27):
Personally I can see Metro working for the home user and on tablets, the jury is out on the workplace though. But its the home and tablet market which is going to drive the development of apps anyway...

That's the real issue. M$'s strength is in the desktop and particularly in the workplace. M$ needs to build on that strength, not throw it under the bus to try to get at the phone/tablet market. It's not easy to get this right, and M$ hasn't really needed finesse in the past yet it desperately needs it now.
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AirPacific747
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RE: Will Nokia Regain Its Former Glory?

Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:30 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 28):
That's the real issue. M$'s strength is in the desktop and particularly in the workplace. M$ needs to build on that strength, not throw it under the bus to try to get at the phone/tablet market. It's not easy to get this right, and M$ hasn't really needed finesse in the past yet it desperately needs it now.


Which they will. You will still be able to access the classic desktop layout from W8.. I think MS is doing the right thing by merging tablet and PC OS together... imagine a tablet computer that could completely replace your laptop.. this is not the case with Android or iOS yet.. however W8 has the potential.
 
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nighthawk
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RE: Will Nokia Regain Its Former Glory?

Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:04 pm

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 29):
imagine a tablet computer that could completely replace your laptop..

bear in mind that traditional desktop mode will only be available on intel based systems, i.e PC's. The majority of tablets may be ARM based, which will be restricted to the Metro interface only, so the experience will be equal to that of an android or iOS based tablet.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 28):
It can, presuming desktop apps translate well to mobile apps, which I'm told is not the case, but I'm not personally an expert in this area.

A traditional desktop application designed for the windows classic interface does not translate well to a mobile app, but we are talking about metro based apps here, which are specifically designed for touch screen systems. They should work just fine on all platforms.
 
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AirPacific747
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RE: Will Nokia Regain Its Former Glory?

Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:19 pm

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 30):
bear in mind that traditional desktop mode will only be available on intel based systems, i.e PC's. The majority of tablets may be ARM based, which will be restricted to the Metro interface only, so the experience will be equal to that of an android or iOS based tablet.

You're right.. I forgot about this.. but you can actually get a tablet with i5 processor.. there is one called Samsung Slate 7.. but unfortunately it is quite expensive..
 
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Revelation
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RE: Will Nokia Regain Its Former Glory?

Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:50 pm

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 29):
Which they will. You will still be able to access the classic desktop layout from W8..

What is the expectation, then? Does M$ think the Metro layout will work well for existing desktop users sitting at a keyboard and having a widescreen monitor, or do they think they will fall back to using the classic layout?
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
United Airline
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RE: Will Nokia Regain Its Former Glory?

Wed May 09, 2012 8:59 am

So how big in Nokia now? No 2 overall?

Wonder when will Microsoft takeover Nokia......

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