It's very strange how gay males have such a strong opinion about circumcision. In my opinion, it marginalizes the gay community deeply as a people who care only about sex. You really care that much if men are cut?

As for me, I don't care. If I get married and my wife wants our child to have our child cut, fine, It is what it is. I place circumcision around #30 under my priorities.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 195): I do admit sometimes it's a problem. In the mornings it might get a bit stuck and before you can pull it back you're already "letting it flow" and it might impact part of the foreskin and deviate into the floor. But other than that, just retract it so there's no obstruction. As a kid (younger than 8), however, I would get scolded because I didn't retract it. My mom went as far as giving me a little warning that although she didn't have me circumcised she would do so if I kept doing #1 without retracting. I can see that hygiene might be important since by that time I would complain about that part: I'd get a couple of small bruises inside due to poor hygiene, but nothing a few years of maturing can't solve

I know two guys who were circumcised because they couldn't retract their foreskin properly. I didn't know they were getting this done till they were about to go under the knife, which is a pity, as I could have offered an alternative. I had the same problem in my teens, only I didn't know it was a problem until I became sexually active and realised other guys could do this. I solved the problem easily and without any surgery: I started taking daily baths in the hottest water possible, which had the effect of softening my foreskin and gradually I was able to stretch it back over the glans. Rubbing a little salt onto the glans each time helped to desensitise it a little (or at least I think it did) and after a week or two doing this I was able to pull it right back over the glans.

There is one advantage that a cut penis has over an uncut one: you're never going to get your foreskin caught in your zip.   

Quoting jcs17 (Reply 200): It's very strange how gay males have such a strong opinion about circumcision.

Who else is better qualified to offer an informed, experience-based opinion on the subject?

Quoting jcs17 (Reply 200): In my opinion, it marginalizes the gay community deeply as a people who care only about sex.

Are you suggesting that straight guys are different from gay guys in that respect?

[Edited 2012-07-07 23:26:24]

Quoting Max Q (Reply 148): Calling them a 'burden' is an exaggeration, I think circumcision promotes hygiene, simple as that.

Considering how many people have been whinning about how having to spend a few extra minutes cleaning themselves is burden, it seems it doesn't.

Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 182): is visually more appealing (women prefer it, it's a well known fact).

In your area, probably. Everywhere else where being cut is not common at all, not so much.
Now, as I've said it before, if a girl walks away on you because you are uncut/cut, you are dating the wrong kind of girl unless you like the shallow Jersey Shore trashy type.

But hey, whatever makes you feel better about having a mutilated penis  

Quoting jcs17 (Reply 200): It's very strange how gay males have such a strong opinion about circumcision. In my opinion, it marginalizes the gay community deeply as a people who care only about sex. You really care that much if men are cut?

O rly?. I'm not gay and I think your statement is ridiculous. Though in this very thread there are a few statements that prove you wrong:

Quoting KingairTA (Reply 2): What do the women prefer

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 30): y completely unscientific survey among girls I've discussed it with (all across the planet) indicates a preference for circumcised men

Quoting Max Q (Reply 34): I think most women prefer it too but I am curious.

And like I said before, a lot of people with questionable hygiene habits, it seems.

Quoting jcs17 (Reply 200): It's very strange how gay males have such a strong opinion about circumcision.

Why is that strange? Most straight men I know are almost always conscious of the physical attributes of women.

Quoting jcs17 (Reply 200): In my opinion, it marginalizes the gay community deeply as a people who care only about sex.

In a thread about male circumcision, the subject of dicks is likely to be prominent.

If you want to start a thread about - say - convict Australia, I'd have a fair amount to say about that too, and only a small percentage of it would be related to the homosexual activity - sex - that flourished at the time.  

mariner

Quoting jcs17 (Reply 200): As for me, I don't care. If I get married and my wife wants our child to have our child cut, fine, It is what it is. I place circumcision around #30 under my priorities.

So if you want your daughter to be circumcised as well, I would assume that she would not protest?

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 201): you're never going to get your foreskin caught in your zip.

SO TRUE!
  

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 188): So you're going to use that completely unsupported speculation to support a point the opposite of what was made in the article? I don't think it works that way.

Clearly you're not a statistician. That's often the way it works when you're asking nebulous questions like "how do you feel". Of course the writer acknowledges this in her first sentence, where she uses the word "unscientific".

Quoting jcs17 (Reply 200): It's very strange how gay males have such a strong opinion about circumcision. In my opinion, it marginalizes the gay community deeply as a people who care only about sex. You really care that much if men are cut?

It's not about sex. It's about mutilating a child. If we were not meant to have foreskins then we wouldn't have been born with them.

Quoting jcs17 (Reply 200): It's very strange how gay males have such a strong opinion about circumcision.

Because most of us have experience with a lot of penises in our lives. Most straight men have intimate experience with only their own.

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 188): 3) There is a small minority of people who are uncut who are not happy with their status. 4) There is a small minority of people who are cut who are not happy with their status.

The difference is that group (3) can get cut. Group (4) cannot get un-cut. If a man (or teenager old enough to make an informed decision) desires circumcision on his own penis, then I support him 100%. After all, he's the rightful owner of said organ and can do with it what he likes.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 17): Stop circumcision! It is a brutal, barbaric practice and should NOT be allowed for infants that have no say in the matter.

Quoting raffik (Reply 207): It's not about sex. It's about mutilating a child. If we were not meant to have foreskins then we wouldn't have been born with them.

I agree totally with the above two replies. I have been hearing this issue being knocked around for about 75 years now; every time I hear it again, I'm reminded of how thankful I am that my parents were sensible enough to tell the Doctors to "keep their scissors off" of "Little Charley's" "dickie" ! I have been using that thing for all manner of different "things" for just shy of 80 years now, and I can unequivocally state that "the way it was originally designed" is far superior to the "altered" state.

I can easily prove my point; I would assume that the vast majority of the members of A.net wear shoes most of the time, with the possible exception of when you go swimming, surfing, or just taking a shower. Try this simple "test"; next time you're outdoors and it's comfortably warm, take your shoes and socks off, and try walking down a gravel driveway, barefoot. I can guarantee, unless you spend one hell of a lot of time going barefoot, you're not going to get very far on that gravel driveway before you put your shoes back on ! Yet we have all seen people who never wear shoes, and they they can walk in gravel, lava, jungle vegetation, and some can even serve as porters for mountain climbers, and walk in snow in their bare feet !

It'a all about "sensitivity", (or the lack of it).

The very same thing can be said about people who routinely perform very hard, course work, and who never wear gloves to protect their hands, (and especially their fingers). Any doctor can tell you that the tips of human fingers are so sensitive that they are easily able to discern differences of only a few thousands of an inch on a smooth surface; however, the people who routinely engage in hard work, bare handed, will have far less sensitivity in their finger tips.

Now, the present discussion isn't about our fingers. What it IS about, most of us probably don't "use" quite as much as we use our finger tips; but when we DO have occasion to "use it", I must point out, "lots" of sensitivity is much preferable to a "lack" of sensitivity.

Just to "cover all the bases".............I'm sure we have all heard all of the "old wive's tales" about "it's easier to keep clean if it's "altered"; to which I can only say, it's a lot easier to get you feet clean when you take a shower if you remove your shoes and socks first; I don't know about anyone else, but I can assure everyone, it is my habit to attend to personal hygiene regularly, throughout the day; I always wash anything that needs washing, quite a few times daily as is necessary; ( I really think that nonsense about "keeping it cleaner" was aimed at the people who tend to bathe like once a month, (whether they think they need to or not).

Again, getting back to the OP's original question, he's asking for our personal opinions; are you "for" or "against" circumcision ? I have only read a dozen or so replies at the beginning, and also reply No. 208 (which directly precedes my reply) In it, I think Doc Lightning pretty well sums it up, when he notes;

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 208): Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 188): 3) There is a small minority of people who are uncut who are not happy with their status. 4) There is a small minority of people who are cut who are not happy with their status. The difference is that group (3) can get cut. Group (4) cannot get un-cut. If a man (or teenager old enough to make an informed decision) desires circumcision on his own penis, then I support him 100%. After all, he's the rightful owner of said organ and can do with it what he likes.

I can't say it any better than that ! So........ it's really not just about "are you for or against circumcision", but rather, are you for (or against) performing this totally needless "procedure" on an infant, who will forever have to go through life with some of the most sensitive nerve endings on his whole body, forever "flopping and rubbing" against his trousers, thereby greatly "desensitizing" said very important nerve endings, and in so doing, greatly diminishing said organ from "performing" as I believe it was intended to perform, by ________________; (you can fill in the blank space with "Mother Nature", or whoever you choose)

I really don't wish to criticize anyone's religion here, but at the same time, I feel that it's a very serious thing to do this to infants; I feel anything this serious should be "put off" till the person having the procedure is old enough to decide for himself.

Charley

Quoting raffik (Reply 207): It's not about sex. It's about mutilating a child. If we were not meant to have foreskins then we wouldn't have been born with them.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 208): Because most of us have experience with a lot of penises in our lives. Most straight men have intimate experience with only their own.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 205): So if you want your daughter to be circumcised as well, I would assume that she would not protest?

**Raising my hand** I want you to go Saudi Arabia and protest this awful disfigurement. Let me know how it goes.

... you speak for yourselves. Again, I don't care.

Against.

That the US and Israel are the two large practicers of male baby genital mutilation is telling. Jews get a pass because that is part of their religion.

I'm uncircumcised and have never had an STI/STD. (But I religiously have safe sex.) All that crap about circumcised people having a lower transmission rate is just that...crap.

If an adult man wishes to get his penis chopped off that is his prerogative, it should not be forced on innocent babies. It is time to outlaw this practice actually. It should be an adult's decision.

BTW, a lot of my circumcised friends are envious, because uncircumcised guys are a LOT more sensitive on the glans of their penis.

Quoting jcs17 (Reply 210): I want you to go Saudi Arabia and protest this awful disfigurement. Let me know how it goes.

JCS...............I have no plans to go to Saudi Arabia, now or ever, so I have ZERO interest in what the people there think about the practice of circumcising infants; (not to mention, there are quite a number of other things I happened to disagree with the Saudis about )

They also don't allow women to drive cars, the last I heard; hey, I could care less ! I'm not a woman, and as i just mentioned, I wasn't going there anyway............so who cares WHAT they think ? Certainly not me !

Charley

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 211): the US and Israel are the two large practicers of male baby genital mutilation

Uh, WTF are you talking about?? Have you forgotten that Muslims perform this practice as well? And how many Muslims are in this world?

When all is said and done, you can think whatever you want, but 60% of Americans perform circumcision, and the Muslim World performs circumcision, and the few Jews in the world perform circumcision.

Do you think it's going to stop because a bunch of a.net cranks don't like it? This is one of the most ridiculous discussions I've seen on this board. Nobody has convinced anyone to change their perspective at all.

Quoting daviation (Reply 214): Nobody has convinced anyone to change their perspective at all.

Mostly because no one will admit their penis has any kind of shortcoming, real or perceived.

And if you are cut, is not like you can change your mind a reattach your foreskin, anyway.

Quoting Acheron (Reply 215): Mostly because no one will admit their penis has any kind of shortcoming, real or perceived.

What are you, a professional psychologist? Don't put words in my mouth or anyone else's. I don't think anyone is referring to shortcomings, perceived or otherwise.

The original issue, before it got muddied by amateur psychologists, was are you for or against it? After 200 comments, half are for it, half are against it. The real issue then is will this change anything. Of course not. People who do it for traditional or religious reasons will continue. People who think it's a positive health procedure will continue.

But to say it's an American/Israeli practice is ludicrous. Anyone who makes that statement is excluding the entire Muslim world. And Muslims don't follow the practice because Americans and Israelis do it!!

Quoting daviation (Reply 216): The real issue then is will this change anything. Of course not. People who do it for traditional or religious reasons will continue. People who think it's a positive health procedure will continue.

Not necessarily. The idea that all this is fixed and never changes just isn't true. New Zealand for example went from a circumcision rate of virtually zero to around sixty percent, then back to zero in less than 100 years. Circumcision rates have declined since the 1960s in the US (when the rate was around 90%) to barely half in the last few years. It's a perfectly reasonable debate to have.

Quoting daviation (Reply 216): But to say it's an American/Israeli practice is ludicrous. Anyone who makes that statement is excluding the entire Muslim world. And Muslims don't follow the practice because Americans and Israelis do it!!

Agree with this- the vast majority of the Muslim World and about two thirds of the US is circumcised, the vast minority of those in Asia, South America, Europe and (recently at least) Australasia are not:

Quoting Acheron (Reply 215): Mostly because no one will admit their penis has any kind of shortcoming,

Mines certainly doesn't. That is why my phone is constantly ringing off the hook. . . .

Quoting jcs17 (Reply 210): **Raising my hand** I want you to go Saudi Arabia and protest this awful disfigurement. Let me know how it goes.

Oh yes, because if they do it in KSA, we should do it here? Maybe we should ban women from driving, too? (Actually, come to think of it...     )

Quoting daviation (Reply 216): And Muslims don't follow the practice because Americans and Israelis do it!!

They do... but not directly. They are following the same Biblical commandment that Jews follow. The two religions have a lot more in common than either likes to admit.

I have not commented much in any forum on anet for a while but this one peaked my interest and after reading posts I have decided to add my two cents.

First of all I was born and raised into a religion that is not as ritualistic Judaism but is still a religion that requires much of it's followers. There are many things that the church frowns upon and surprisingly enough the church holds no doctrine on circumcision. Whether you circumcise your child or not is no where mentioned in any of their doctrine. With that being said my parents chose not to circumcise me when I was born. My 4 older brothers had all been circumcised at birth and I was the one that my parents decided not to circumcise.

I grew up uncircumcised and after a few traumatic experiences around the age of 7, due mainly to my parents not understanding the need to teach me the proper hygiene etc, Doctors had to see me and after some unpleasant treatments they got me back on the right track and I learned how to maintain everything.

I had always thought about being circumcised and after over 10 years of thinking about it I decided last year at the age of 26 to get circumcised. After a few visits to the Urologist it was time to go to the Hospital and get things going.

I was put under and after a few hours I was waking up and heading home. I made the decision to take a daily photo journal of the recovery process and sometime in the next 6 months or so I will finish the journal and post it online to give an unbiased photo documentary of the procedure and recovery without trying to convince anyone of what decision to make.

I personally am glad that I was circumcised. The sensitivity has decreased but not in the way that many on this forum are pretending to understand. The head of the penis naturally becomes more callused and the sensitivity that I "lost" was the sensitive to the touch, almost burning uncomfortable sensation. In return I received a different kind of sensitivity. Because the head of my penis wasn't so sensitive I was able to feel the sensitivity of the rest of my penis including the lower ridge where the head meets the shaft and the area where the frenulum (sp?)was snipped.

I must be one of the fortunate ones that can still masturbate without lube even after being circumcised. I find sexual activities to be much more enjoyable because they are much longer lasting allowing me to truly enjoy the situation.

Again, I am only posting this to be informative because out of the 200+ posts so far on this thread there are way too many people offering their advice on pure speculation. I understand that many of you have friends etc that may have had the surgery performed and many that have seen and handled dozens or hundreds of penises but there is a lot of exaggerated claims on here from many that are in no position to add them.

(Edited to correct the spelling of 'there' to 'their' in fear that a small grammatical error late at night might cause some members reading this post to focus on such a trivial matter rather than remaining on task and spending their energy commenting on the actual topic and its review.)

[Edited 2012-07-13 21:48:23]

[Edited 2012-07-13 21:48:56]

Quoting ACJFLYER (Reply 220): I had always thought about being circumcised and after over 10 years of thinking about it I decided last year at the age of 26 I decided to get circumcised. After a few visits to the Urologist it was time to go to the Hospital and get things going.

The essential point is that it was your decision.

You have obviously thought very deeply about becoming circumcised - I would have liked that same opportunity, but it was denied me.

mariner

Quoting mariner (Reply 221): The essential point is that it was your decision.

Again, I am not trying to convince anyone that one way is better than the other. You are right as well when stating that because you were circumcised as infant you were not afforded the opportunity to choose for yourself.

I can say that having the procedure done as an adult is anything but pleasant. I did years of research and chose the urologist I did for a very specific reason. He did amazing work and I am pleased with the care and attention to details that he provided me. The surgery was such that I was unable to work for a week and a half and it was an extremely uncomfortable experience and yet at the same time I can tell you that even as an adult I don't really remember much of the pain in the sense that is was very uncomfortable and there were many sleepless nights but I would never call it a traumatic experience. That would be a bit dramatic to go that far.

The pictures alone of the recovery for the first few months would show that there were VERY unpleasant days and that the aesthetic aspect of it all isn't complete until around 9-12 months after the procedure.

Mariner, I am not negating the point that I was able to decide as an adult to have the procedure done. Again, you are absolutely right. What I am stating is that there are many members on here throwing out wild claims about the procedure, how it is performed, and what it is like in regards to the "before/after."

I'm definitely for ...no matter what people say about losing sensitivity, I was circumcised without frenulum removal and hence kept all the erogenous tissue

[Edited 2012-07-13 22:49:37]

Looks like the German law is being distorted to prevent "the Jewish life from the worst threat since the holocaust", as an religious idiot called a recent court decision to enforce the basic law that guarantees bodily integrity. The German government is set to tolerate this archaic antinatural child maltreatment, while at the same time a teacher will be sentenced if the claps a unruly student. Hypocracy at its best!
Dont get me wrong, every one has the right to be circumcised if he´s 18, but to do it to children is nothing but a criminal act as the child has no option. Religion is no excuse, it only makes it worse.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 162):

Thank you! I've returned from my holidays and I'm finally catching up with the fun on our family forum!

Quoting ACJFLYER (Reply 220): due mainly to my parents not understanding the need to teach me the proper hygiene etc

Uh... what? My parents have never told me what to do with my trouser snake and I'm still in the possession of a foreskin. What hygiene practices are you referring to?

Quoting ACJFLYER (Reply 220): I decided last year at the age of 26 to get circumcised.

A very good thing that you have decided for yourself, IMHO. If the parents decide something anything over the head of the child, it might backfire. It even begins with the kind of school to visit, the kind of hobbies the child is allowed to have - and we don't even have to debate circumcision. My principle would be to do the least harm possible, and on the other hand to respect the will of the child as good as possible.

Quoting na (Reply 224):

Yes, these news have upset me too. If you do anything which might anger Jews or Israeli interests, you will be quickly remembered of Germany's past.

I think the recent court decision from Cologne is actually giving the government much-needed credibility in order to fight against various religious extremists that refuse to integrate into our culture. If male circumcision is allowed to stay, then I see no reason why polygamy should be outlawed.



David

Again, I simply state that only gay men or straight men with penis issues care whether a baby boy is cut or not. Correct me if I'm wrong. I feel really sorry that gay men have made this an issue. It demeans gay men as people who only care about penises and sex. You're really playing into a stereotype.

Quoting jcs17 (Reply 226): Again, I simply state that only gay men or straight men with penis issues care whether a baby boy is cut or not. Correct me if I'm wrong.

You're wrong. There are a great many people who care a lot about whether a baby boy is cut or not. In fact, in most cases, the mother makes the decision.

Quoting jcs17 (Reply 226): Again, I simply state that only gay men or straight men with penis issues care whether a baby boy is cut or not. Correct me if I'm wrong. I feel really sorry that gay men have made this an issue. It demeans gay men as people who only care about penises and sex. You're really playing into a stereotype.

I'll try again, too.

In my case - gay - it has nothing to do with the sex. I find it difficult to imagine the sex can have been any better uncut than it has been cut.

It has to do with parental authority and my rights over my body.

mariner

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 227): In fact, in most cases, the mother makes the decision.

in other word, making a decision about a body part she doesn't even possess on her own body!!

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 227): You're wrong. There are a great many people who care a lot about whether a baby boy is cut or not. In fact, in most cases, the mother makes the decision.

Cite it.

Quoting mariner (Reply 228): It has to do with parental authority and my rights over my body.

Thank you for the clarification. I understand what you are saying now and I appreciate the clarity.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 225): Uh... what? My parents have never told me what to do with my trouser snake and I'm still in the possession of a foreskin. What hygiene practices are you referring to?

They never taught me to work on retracting the foreskin and as such when I would use the restroom I wouldn't pull it back. In turn bacteria formed under the foreskin and created a substance that made the foreskin and penis gland to stick together. The physicians then pulled it back and separated the foreskin from the penis gland and I was given an ointment to use for a few weeks while pulling the foreskin back numerous times a day to ensure it didn't again.

I apologize that I don't have the correct terminology but I was only 7 and am going solely on what I remember as a kid.

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 211): Jews get a pass because that is part of their religion.

Religion shouldn't give anyone a free pass to mutilate someone else.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 225): If male circumcision is allowed to stay, then I see no reason why polygamy should be outlawed.

That's something I've always wondered about, there is a Muslim family in my street where the chap has two wives, it is illegal in Norway but they allowed them all to come in as refugees so some allowance has obviously been made.

Germany will now pass legislation that makes male circumcision possible and it will happen very quickly. It will be one of these laws that gets a majority across political lines.

Taking a neutral position now, I wonder how they will phrase it to get it in line with our basic law.

It was mentioned already, that freedom of religion also means freedom from religion.

Our basic law sets all persons equal. How can the lawmaker can make male circumcision legal, but illegal for females?

Bodily harm - OK, the law provides that only qualified persons can perfom the task.That rules out the local barber who took a weekend course in Antalya.

But there are other, religious based mutilations, what if next ritual tribe marks are demanded to become legal? Or, tattoos for under aged?

No offense to any religious feelings, I even think that the new law will contribute to the religious freedom in the country, even though I would oppose it. But any law must be very carefully phrased to avoid abuse.

.

So I'm just gonna go out on a limb and say that the consensus is that we are all PRO-CIRCUMCISION?

**You guys are so easy to stir!**

Well I'm getting a circumcision..... CUT PENISES ALL THE WAY!!!

(And I wish I was cut at birth!!)

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 234): Well I'm getting a circumcision..... CUT PENISES ALL THE WAY!!!

May I ask why?

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 235): May I ask why?

You may. I think it looks aesthetically better.

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 236): You may. I think it looks aesthetically better.

Probably one of the stupidest reasons for getting cut I've ever heard of.

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 237): Probably one of the stupidest reasons for getting cut I've ever heard of.

You're 100% correct. It is stupid that I am getting it done at my age. I wish my parents had made this decision when I was young.

You know the argument about parent's choice, and how it should be the child's choice is so silly. I mean look at vaccinations. Parent's choose to have their kids vaccinated. Yet in the newspaper today there was an article about 10% of Australian children not being vaccinated due to their parents being "informed" that their could be diabolical effects on the babies. How ridic!

Pfff! Parents are parents, they are there to make choices on your behalf when you don't even know where your nose is. Who cares whether it is for religious or aesthetic reasons. They did what they did. They didn't do what they didn't do. I wish my parent's had my cut, alas, I am making that decision for myself.

I am just glad I live in a country where the government will pay for it and there is not stupid court dictating what I (or my parents could have done when I was a baby) can do to my body.

Quoting jcs17 (Reply 226): Again, I simply state that only gay men or straight men with penis issues care whether a baby boy is cut or not. Correct me if I'm wrong. I feel really sorry that gay men have made this an issue. It demeans gay men as people who only care about penises and sex. You're really playing into a stereotype.

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 234): So I'm just gonna go out on a limb and say that the consensus is that we are all PRO-CIRCUMCISION?

This thread seems to have reduced to trolling comments and the feeding of them. If I am wrong please tell me but making blanket statements that blatantly fly in the face of what so many users have testified to in this thread just seems too trollish to be otherwise IMO.

I am a straight man not aware of having any penis issues (though I predict I'll be accused of having unconscious issues now), I shall state my case again. I just find it morally bankrupt for a society to allow parents to dictate alterations to the bodies of their children for aesthetic motivations (or in at least one case of a member who spoke here deliberately to attempt impede sexual experience), without medical necessity.

If a young man in his, say, mid teenage years decides he wishes to be circumcised for whatever reason be it aesthetic or as a confirmation of a faith that demands circumcision I support it. They should have free access to peer reviewed meta studies in plain language detailing the research consensus (in areas where research has been done) of the non aesthetic pros or cons of circumcision, be it disease resistance or loss of sensitivity etc. Patients can then make a much more informed choice based on their own ideals than if their parents had decided for them at birth to satisfy their ideals.

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 238): It is stupid that I am getting it done at my age.

Why do something that is unnecessary? It's about the same IMO as people removing limbs because they think they'll look more attractive without a leg, it's just plain dumb.

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 240): Quoting AA7295 (Reply 238): It is stupid that I am getting it done at my age. Why do something that is unnecessary? It's about the same IMO as people removing limbs because they think they'll look more attractive without a leg, it's just plain dumb.

I suspect you're referring to extreme manifestations of "body dysmorphic disorder"- http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/body-dysmorphic-disorder/DS00559/

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 234): Well I'm getting a circumcision..... CUT PENISES ALL THE WAY!!!

Good decision! Have you checked your inbox yet?

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 238): You know the argument about parent's choice, and how it should be the child's choice is so silly. I mean look at vaccinations. Parent's choose to have their kids vaccinated. Yet in the newspaper today there was an article about 10% of Australian children not being vaccinated due to their parents being "informed" that their could be diabolical effects on the babies. How ridic!

One has a valid medical justification with lots of data showing a clear benefit. There is no data showing any harm.

The other has no valid medical justification and causes unambiguous mutilation.

They aren't even comparable.

Quoting jcs17 (Reply 226): Again, I simply state that only gay men or straight men with penis issues care whether a baby boy is cut or not. Correct me if I'm wrong. I feel really sorry that gay men have made this an issue. It demeans gay men as people who only care about penises and sex. You're really playing into a stereotype.

The only one that is stereotyping here is you. The issue here isn't about penises/sex, it's about personal liberty. And I am not gay nor do I have penis issues...

That being said it's really annoying hearing the term "mutilated penis" over and over again. It carries a negative connotation... we don't call piercing ears as "ear mutilation."

I think cut penises look better, and as an added bonus it's a bit easier to clean (can't deny that, not saying it takes that much longer or anything.) I don't have to worry about zipping up my foreskin or anything. I'm glad it was done for me and I'm not gonna make a huge issue out of this but that being said, I am going to let my future sons choose for themselves

I'm for circumcision even if my religion did not warrant it.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 244): It carries a negative connotation...

That's because removing body parts is generally negative.

Quoting 777way (Reply 245): I'm for circumcision even if my religion did not warrant it.

I don't believe you, I very much doubt if you had the choice you'd do anything other than have it removed, circumcision is part of your religion and you wouldn't not do it even if you had the choice, which you don't. Ditto with jews it's conditioned into you.

^ Could be, but I hate ugly looking things, so if I had bad teeth and a hooked nose and bats ears those would get fixed, so why not that ugly looking bit of skin?

Quoting 777way (Reply 247): ^ Could be, but I hate ugly looking things, so if I had bad teeth and a hooked nose and bats ears those would get fixed, so why not that ugly looking bit of skin?

If you´re grown up no one can deny that you are free do what you want. If you think its ugly, ok. But its a crime if you do it to minors or even worse to hapless babies. To circumsise children is maltreatment, no matter how often backward orientated religious leaders whine about it. Beside the physical maltretment its marking children and limits their future freedom and I think that those men (and women) from yesterday who are responsible should grow up to the 21st century.

Let's look at it this way: suppose there's a cult where people must tattoo themselves to identify themselves as part of it and that all babies born from couple of said cult must be tattooed as well. Would you allow it?

It's obvious to see that people here are divided mainly due to the following:

For:
-Religion/culture mandates it
-They had it done so they pass it on
-Hygienic reasons

Against:
-Against religion dominating life
-Pro choice
-No benefit over uncut (other than reduced HIV transmission)

I'll finish by saying that we can't be pro-choice for one thing and anti-choice for another (not to change the subject, but I'd like to see how many here support abortion rights). We live in the 21st century...I think that if I'm going to do something that might be irreversible (and by irreversible I mean mutilation like this), there should be benefits involved. An average, well educated boy won't have to worry about HIV if he knows how to protect himself; condoms are also available, so the HIV excuse is no longer important. Hygiene? Nothing a bit of training during the potty training months can't handle. Religion? The boy's penis is not the business of any priest/rabbi. I highly doubt that to enter a community there needs to be a physical exam and/or a circumcision certificate involved. If Islam can make exceptions for people during Ramadan, I don't see why people with liberal tendencies can't be exempted from circumcision as well.