canoecarrier
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:14 pm

Fine, this conversation comes up on a-net everytime there's a shooting somewhere. You and I know this is one of the most debated topics in Non-Av.

Quoting D L X (Reply 46):
I know you don't actually mean that, so I apologize for being harsh, but it just grates at me whenever someone discounts the gun discussion that inevitably follows a gun tragedy as mere "politicizing it" like it is some sort of game.

Did you read the list of firearms he had on him at the time? And I'm not being snarky. When the CO shooter was arrested he had an AR-15, 2 Glock 40 cal. pistols and a Remington 12 gauge shotgun. Since it's early and so close to the event I can't speak to which guns he used. But, in order to own the 2 pistols he would have had to go through Colorado's Instant Criminal Background Check System clean. No state I know of in the US requires a background check or license for a shotgun. So, in this case the Remington shotgun would have been legal for him to own anywhere in the US. And, it's just as deadly when loaded with buckshot.

There are various laws for AR-15 (and other semi-automatic magazine fed firearms) ownership by state and they are all almost exclusively related to the capacity of the magazine. To be honest this is not much different than the conversation that was had here on A-net right after Anders Behring Breivik set off an explosive in Oslo and shot all those children in Utøya.

The caliber of an AR-15 is exactly the same as the Mini-14 rifle Breivik used in Utøya (and both are magazine fed). So my point is that I don't think that more laws are needed. Breivik built a car bomb out of fertilizer just like the OK City bomber did. Should we ban nitrogen based fertilizers? We live in a dangerous world. Someone who really wants to inflict maximum pain to others will, regardless of what regulations we put in place. But, sometimes law abiding citizens that legally own firearms save the day, just like this guy did in Florida last week:

http://www.complex.com/city-guide/20...nds-internet-cafe-from-two-thieves

Quoting Acheron (Reply 47):
Or just require mandatory regular psychological tests as part of ownership?. Or does that infringe upon the 2nd Amendment as well?.

I'll start with this article from the American Academy of Psychiatry and the Law.

http://www.jaapl.org/content/35/3/330.full

I won't paraphrase it, but it does do a decent job of explaining our current legal restrictions to gun ownership in the US if you have a psychiatric condition. And there are some restrictions.

But, to answer your original question no regular psychological tests are required and I don't think they should be. For purposes of conversation, I've known several people that were diagnosed with a psychological disorder that were just fine with or without their medications. Does that mean that they can't own a firearm now and forever? What's the process to regain your right to own a firearm after you've been treated for whatever problem it is you had?

To say the least that is a very contentious question here.

[Edited 2012-07-20 13:16:01]

[Edited 2012-07-20 13:18:27]
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ual777
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:33 pm

Time to freshen the needle and chemical supply at the state prison....Ill be happy to see this f***er fry.
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
Acheron
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:51 pm

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 50):

I'll start with this article from the American Academy of Psychiatry and the Law.

http://www.jaapl.org/content/35/3/330.full

I won't paraphrase it, but it does do a decent job of explaining our current legal restrictions to gun ownership in the US if you have a psychiatric condition. And there are some restrictions.

But, to answer your original question no regular psychological tests are required and I don't think they should be. For purposes of conversation, I've known several people that were diagnosed with a psychological disorder that were just fine with or without their medications. Does that mean that they can't own a firearm now and forever? What's the process to regain your right to own a firearm after you've been treated for whatever problem it is you had?

To say the least that is a very contentious question here.

How about basing it on something like, say, FAA rules?.

If you can't fly a plane on psychological grounds, you can't own a gun.
 
canoecarrier
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:02 pm

Quoting Acheron (Reply 52):
How about basing it on something like, say, FAA rules?.

If you can't fly a plane on psychological grounds, you can't own a gun.

I'd have to look at the FAA rules, but in this case with no criminal history and no known mental illness I fail to see how it would have changed things.
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PHX787
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:03 pm

Update: 71 injured. Horrible day.


They're saying on tv that most of the movie industry stocks are down right now.

Huge debate spawning on the whole conceal and carry law when this guy definitely didn't conceal it.

This is just outrageous and horrible. I can't believe a guy has a mentality to kill like this  
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MaverickM11
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:24 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 49):
European shooters have a tendency to use weapons that belong to the parents; the shooters often take part in shooting clubs, they use pistols, they are high school pupils, and they aren't extremists, outsiders or loners. At least that's what I glean from the school shootings in Erfurt (2002) and Winnenden (2009).

That sounds like mostly hearsay. The common theme is disturbed individuals who shoot lots of people.
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Mir
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:48 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 54):
Huge debate spawning on the whole conceal and carry law when this guy definitely didn't conceal it.

That's just a result of doing nothing so many times in the past when these sorts of things happen. Massacre after massacre and the gun laws just stand pat, so people use the next one to push their particular cause. I'm certainly not suggesting that banning guns or banning concealed carry would be the right thing to do, but doing nothing isn't the solution either.

I'd like to see states clamp down on the so-called "gun show loophole" (which is about more than gun shows) and try and take straw purchasers out of the picture entirely. Might not have made a difference in this case, but that sort of thing is a problem in a lot of places.

-Mir
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canoecarrier
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:03 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 56):
That's just a result of doing nothing so many times in the past when these sorts of things happen. Massacre after massacre and the gun laws just stand pat, so people use the next one to push their particular cause. I'm certainly not suggesting that banning guns or banning concealed carry would be the right thing to do, but doing nothing isn't the solution either.

The guns involved in this terrible act, I don't have a problem being available to any legal citizen, under the existing laws. In other countries, in other situations, it's never made a difference to restrict magazine size or restrict ownership.

Quoting Mir (Reply 56):
I'd like to see states clamp down on the so-called "gun show loophole" (which is about more than gun shows) and try and take straw purchasers out of the picture entirely. Might not have made a difference in this case, but that sort of thing is a problem in a lot of places.

What does the "gun show loophole" have anything to do with why he had the guns in the first place?
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CaliAtenza
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:56 pm

Quoting srbmod (Reply 30):
Will going to the movies (or even to a sporting event at a stadium or arena) start being like going to the airport and you have to go through a metal detector in order to enter the building? While this guy entered the theater through an emergency exit, folks are likely to demand them at the front doors lest someone tries it again.

well here in India, whenever i go to the multiplex to watch a movie, i get frisked by the rent-a-cops at the entrance and the ladies get their bags checked...so its already happening, just not back home in the US. I get a pretty proper pat down...but interestingly they never ask me to remove anything from my pockets. Even when i go out to night clubs here i get frisked and even have to go through the metal detector and remove all belongings from my pockets.
 
Mir
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:27 am

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 57):
What does the "gun show loophole" have anything to do with why he had the guns in the first place?

Did I not say it might not have made a difference in this case?   

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 60):
now, I think people wish there was people with force...

I don't. Trying to shoot an attacker in a packed movie theater is asking for trouble (in the form of collateral damage).

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
ltbewr
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:14 am

Some items from news reports today/tonight.

As to the guns, the killer bought at least 2 of them legally from stores (Bass Pro Shops for one) in recent months.

His apartment apparently is loaded with fireworks, a number of boobie traps, bottles with who knows what in them. The building is still closed off, residents in other buildings are only being allowed them to get necessities. It may be days before the situation can be stabilized, at worst, they may have to destroy the building due to the severe potential danger.

What apparently happened (per the local police) is that he bought a ticket for the midnight show, left early into the film via an emergency door, setting it so he could get in. He apparently put on his gear/outfit, got his guns and stun bombs, walked into the theater area via the jigged emergency door by the screen, threw a stun bomb, and then starting shooting, going up one aisle, into the lobby.

The shooter was a graduate student at a major college, had been a honors student in college (in California, he is from the San Diego area) but seemed to have dropped out a few months ago.

The red carpet premier of the film in Paris, France with a number of the stars of the film and any publicity there was cancelled for sound reasons. A number of theaters, especially in urban areas, will have more cops and security than usual.

In think one weak point is the emergency doors. All theaters should have this policy: If anyone opens them they should set off an alarm and if are opened, then the showing of the film stopped, the doors secured by inside security before the film continues. If the door cannot be properly secued yet allowing the emergency function, then the 'screen' is closed until it can be.
 
PC12Fan
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:31 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 60):
It won't happen. Gun activists (like myself) have a lot of influence. 2nd amendment, baby  

Right to bear arms - yes. Right to slaughter - NO. This was not a demonstration of someone exercising their rights!

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 60):
Kind of extreme

Oh, and and hand gun and a rifle isn't?

Look, I am a backer of the right to bear. But there has to be a freakin' medium.
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
kiwiinoz
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:40 am

The whole gun control in America debate is an interesting one. It certainly seems ridiculous to most of the world when we hear statements that seem to suggest that gun ownership in the general population reduces incidents like this, and yes, I understand the logic, just don't believe it. I guess whatever your position, it didn't help the poor people in this cinema.

The reality is, America, like everywhere, has cultural nuances and differences from other places. They can be a bit Darwinian in their approach and thus the whole "survival of the fittest" defend yourself philosophy is quite broadly represented in the culture. Comparatively, the rest of the western world tends to be a little more collectivist. This culture, plus the obvious, (and potentially dangerous) exercise of gradually disarming the whole population make increased gun control or gun bans a very difficult proposition. Not to mention the political issues attached.

The comparisons to other countries certainly have relevance, but only with a limited context. One can't assume that the success or failure in other countries would be replicated in America.

For the sake of future victims of such crimes, I certainly hope that someone ends up having the courage to bring in gun bans. I am quite doubtful. For most politicians, even if the fervently believe in it, they are too personally ambitious to risk their careers on this.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:12 am

I have a lot to say about gun control but I am gonna try and reserve it for a different thread... better that way I think
 
StarAC17
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:17 am

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 13):
One again, a mentally sick bastard with access to military class guns kills and injures many people in a public place one should feel safe at.

Hold on there, the guy who killed 77 people was deemed sane so it is possible that this guy could be similar in nature.

Quoting jcs17 (Reply 19):
A 6 year old at a late night movie screening for a PG-13 movie. Great parenting.

Was the 6 year old by themselves? If not and was with a parent, sibling, family friend who was old enough to watch it with them I think its fine. Its summer and there is no school tomorrow and also a cinema where we don't expect this to go down.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 29):

RIP... this is exactly why I carry a weapon with me. Too many crazies in the world

I hope that you are that good of a shot (although this has been commented on before)

Quoting srbmod (Reply 30):
One of those killed in the attack, Jessica Ghawi, happened to just have exited Eaton Centre Mall in Toronto back on June 2nd just minutes prior to a gunman opening fire in the food court killing 2 and wounding 6.

That makes me think that there is some sense to those Final Destination movies, sad none the less  .

Who has seen this movie yet?? Spoiler alert below!!

I saw it today and have read something that the underlying commentary of the movie has pissed off some because its about the repressed rising up against the oppression of the ruling class in a sense. Do you think that would have had any motivation on the shooting??
Saying that at the end of the day, its a freaking movie and doesn't excuse it!!!
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NoUFO
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:34 am

Terrible night, really.
Still no clues regarding the motivation of the shooter?
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PHX787
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:44 am

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 63):
Right to slaughter - NO. This was not a demonstration of someone exercising their rights!
Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 63):
Oh, and and hand gun and a rifle isn't?

you may have misread me. I'm in no way in favor of killing people, except in cases of self-defense.
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Dreadnought
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:13 am

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 64):
For the sake of future victims of such crimes, I certainly hope that someone ends up having the courage to bring in gun bans.

1) There is no surefire way to prevent violence. Before guns, there were swords, axes, spears, and arrows. Before those, there were clubs and rocks.

2) The particular theater where this shooting took place already bans firearms from entering its theaters. The city of Aurora doesn’t allow its citizens to carry weapons without jumping through a million and one loopholes and paying an exorbitant fee first. Then, they must wait long months for their license if it’s even approved. That didn’t seem to do anything but make victims out of the 12 unarmed deaths and 71 unarmed injuries.

And speaking of the ban, you have to wonder who was sleeping on the job, and how awake was the rest of the audience. The guy walked into the theater carrying an AR-15 style rifle, two .40-caliber Glock handguns and a 12-gauge Remington Model 870 pump. These are not compact weapons you can slip into your pants. It is summer (no heavy coat to hide stuff). Did nobody notice the man was armed? Nobody called the cops? I find that amazing.
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Mir
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:36 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 69):
And speaking of the ban, you have to wonder who was sleeping on the job, and how awake was the rest of the audience. The guy walked into the theater carrying an AR-15 style rifle, two .40-caliber Glock handguns and a 12-gauge Remington Model 870 pump. These are not compact weapons you can slip into your pants. It is summer (no heavy coat to hide stuff). Did nobody notice the man was armed? Nobody called the cops? I find that amazing.

A movie theater is a dark place, so it's entirely possible people just couldn't see what he was carrying. And it doesn't sound like there was much time for anyone to call the cops once he entered, since the shooting started pretty quickly.

-Mir
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jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:51 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 69):

And speaking of the ban, you have to wonder who was sleeping on the job, and how awake was the rest of the audience. The guy walked into the theater carrying an AR-15 style rifle, two .40-caliber Glock handguns and a 12-gauge Remington Model 870 pump. These are not compact weapons you can slip into your pants. It is summer (no heavy coat to hide stuff). Did nobody notice the man was armed? Nobody called the cops? I find that amazing.

You're simply not informed. The shooter entered the theatre normally, in normal clothes and no weapons. He had pulled his car around the back where the emergency exit door was. Once the movie began, he left through the exit, propped the door open, and returned.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 69):
That didn’t seem to do anything but make victims out of the 12 unarmed deaths and 71 unarmed injuries.

What do you honestly think someone sitting there with a handgun, watching a movie would have done? That logic is all well and good, but it really doesn't apply here, its such an unequal playing field.

We hear how if only there were people packing in the theater things would have been different, how if they were there with their gun this doesn't happen. This guy comes decked out in body armor in a dark theater, with gas distraction/irritant, and packing 'as many as 6,000 rounds'. Come on, what were you going to do about it? Under this scenario, your delusions of self-protection become nothing more than a poorly disguised defense mechanism to the dangers presenting us today.

As long as these military-designed ARMs with virtually unlimited magazines remain so easily accessible to the public, there is a clear trend developing, and that is- there won't be shootings, there will be massacres.
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jcs17
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:00 am

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 66):

Was the 6 year old by themselves? If not and was with a parent, sibling, family friend who was old enough to watch it with them I think its fine. Its summer and there is no school tomorrow and also a cinema where we don't expect this to go down.

WTF are you talking about? I don't think I saw a clock strike midnight until I was at least 9 or 10 years old. I may have been a sheltered upper-middle class kid, but at age 6 I was in bed by 7 or 8... every night.

The fact that some absolute zero A) let their 6 year old stay up until midnight B) brought them to a PG-13 movie is grotesque. The parents of that child should be arrested, bar none.
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StarAC17
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:01 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 69):
There is no surefire way to prevent violence. Before guns, there were swords, axes, spears, and arrows. Before those, there were clubs and rocks.

Guns make it easy, you can kill someone from across the room or many metres away if you are a trained sniper. Swords, axes, spears and arrows etc. require some serious balls that guns do not. I personally could not do any of the priors to kill another person unless really in a psychotic state but with a gun I would find it almost too easy and from the one time I ever fired a weapon I will stay away from them. I just don't like guns but thats me.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 69):
The particular theater where this shooting took place already bans firearms from entering its theaters. The city of Aurora doesn’t allow its citizens to carry weapons without jumping through a million and one loopholes and paying an exorbitant fee first. Then, they must wait long months for their license if it’s even approved. That didn’t seem to do anything but make victims out of the 12 unarmed deaths and 71 unarmed injuries.

The alleged shooter didn't have a criminal record, and bought the guns legally that is the crux of the issue as he was perfectly fine to buy guns. I will agree that gun control laws aren't perfect but looking at a lot of recent shootings specifically most of the shooters have used perfectly legal guns to commit their crimes.
Its really whats in their heads tha lead to these unfortunate events as people who want to kill will and the real issue to prevent that and if we can make gun purchases harder given a throughout background check (aka medical records) it delays them and can red flag people whom can be known to the authorities whom have mental health issues have tried to buy guns. It might stop them from buying guns legally, a good step into focusing resources (we know that shootings in Canada are being done with illegal guns so we can focus more on that),

Saying that the root of these shooting are more than being able to access guns legally or illegally. Toronto has had two shootings in the past 2 months has contradicted the gun laws of Canada. The Eaton Centre shooting in June which Jessica Ghawi survived and unfortunately didn't survive this one  .

And this one which is hardly much better that happened in Toronto on Monday which isn't any better.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/07...ing-nahom-tsegazab_n_1687933.html

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 69):
And speaking of the ban, you have to wonder who was sleeping on the job, and how awake was the rest of the audience.

Movie theater (considered safe), dark, and people aren't generally paranoid therefore think they are fine and don't expect this. You might but people aren't worrying about this watching a new movie.


Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 69):
The guy walked into the theater carrying an AR-15 style rifle, two .40-caliber Glock handguns and a 12-gauge Remington Model 870 pump. These are not compact weapons you can slip into your pants. It is summer (no heavy coat to hide stuff). Did nobody notice the man was armed? Nobody called the cops? I find that amazing.


I don't care how hot it is but if you have an intent in killing someone, that isn't going to make a dent in a killer's intent to cover it up with a trench-coat or a hoodie so they will wear one. Also its dark and people aren't going to notice even in a lobby and people are going to mind their own business.
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BMI727
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:24 am

I don't see how gun control laws could have stopped this. Even with the strictest laws possible, some people are still going to get weapons. Considering the reports of how methodically and thoroughly the shooter went about this, having to go through illegal channels might have slowed him down but likely not stopped him. The crimes gun control laws will stop are things like a guy getting into an argument with his wife and shooting her while drunk and other more impulsive crimes. Anyone as intent on killing as this guy would have gotten his hands on weapons anyway, or used a different method like a truck bomb for instance. (Imagine that near a line of people waiting for a movie or as one lets out, you'll kill a lot more than a dozen people)

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 62):
In think one weak point is the emergency doors. All theaters should have this policy: If anyone opens them they should set off an alarm and if are opened,

It may have. I've not examined the mechanisms closely, but I'd imagine that you could defeat the alarm with magnets and tape. Thieves (and intelligence agencies) can defeat burglar alarm systems, so I imagine an emergency door isn't any more challenging.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
StarAC17
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:59 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 74):
I don't see how gun control laws could have stopped this. Even with the strictest laws possible, some people are still going to get weapons. Considering the reports of how methodically and thoroughly the shooter went about this, having to go through illegal channels might have slowed him down but likely not stopped him.

But it still remains that he purchased them legally had they not been the cops may have been able to track down sellers and implicated them. However because they were legally purchased one can be implicated in selling someone who shouldn't have guns some serious weapons (see below).

He bought military grade weapons, how strong is the black market for those (probably stronger than I think)?? I personally have no issue with hunters having rifles, or even having pistols to protect themselves but owning anything else just shows you have a weapon that only has the intention of killing. To honour the US constitution first: weapons like that didn't exist at the drafting of the second amendment, so to say that the founding fathers would be in favour of people owning assault weapons in unkown..

Also: A psycho assessment of this man needs to be done to determine if he was nuts and as a modification of the background checks should be done to determine the mental health of a person for the past 10 years up to a firearm purchase. The only limitation is if the guy is like Anders Behring Breivik who is sane but a neo-nazi who knew full well what his actions were a year ago.
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BMI727
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:05 am

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 75):
He bought military grade weapons, how strong is the black market for those (probably stronger than I think)??

I incidentally found this article a few days ago. Assault rifles are kid stuff for these guys.

http://gizmodo.com/5927379/the-secre...-store-thatll-sell-anyone-anything
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EA CO AS
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:52 am

Look, it's becoming more and more clear that this guy was - despite his horrible, horrible intent - quite clear-thinking and intelligent, and he PLANNED THIS OUT FOR WEEKS, IF NOT MONTHS.

There's no way this madman could have been stopped if no one knew of his intentions beforehand. None.
No single background check or waiting period was going to deter him. No limit on magazine capacity would have mattered. And so on and so on.
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NorthstarBoy
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:25 am

The official toll is 12 dead and 59 injured. 10 died at the scene and 2 died in hospitals. Of those 59, 5 are still critical. Many of the others were taken to hospitals for minor injuries, treated and released.

For those who are interested, the baby's fine. He was taken to the hospital, treated, and released. His parents were on the news later holding the rather large kid in their arms, talking about what they did to protect him and get themselves out of the theater.

Finally, the more i hear about this shooting, which is all over the media here in Denver, the more I cant help but compare it to Columbine. First there was the failed diversionary tactic, in the case of the Century shooter, it was blaring his stereo so loud at one in the morning that it would prompt his neighbors to call the police, who would investigate and trigger the booby traps in his apartment, which would have the effect of blowing up the building. It might be recalled that Eric Harris, the mastermind of Columbine, placed one of his propane bombs in the woods with the hopes of starting a huge fire that would divert all of the resources of the first responders there. It just so happened that his propane bomb didn't go off the way it should have, and only started a small fire that a park ranger was quickly able to extinguish. Not that Harris knew this, he was on his way to school by the time the propane bomb went off.

The purposeful non-chalantness with which the Century shooter went about doing what he did suggests to my admittedly untrained mind that he was a Clinical Psychopath. Eric Harris was also a clinical psychopath. It's said that the entire event at columbine lasted about 15 minutes, then Harris got bored and just wandered the halls for approximately 45 minutes not shooting anyone. He finally ended up in the library where he took his own life. What made the difference with the Century shooter was the quick response of the police and the fact that one of the officers didn't recognize his gas mask as being police issue. Had that responding officer not noticed that small detail, I'm sure that the Century shooter would have gotten back into the car and gone to some city park and blown his brains out.

Finally, again, people make a big deal out of the idea that he was seeking his PhD, what might be lost is that he was actually failing. True, he did graduate with honors from UC Riverside, but graduate school is a whole different animal. He may well have thought that getting a PhD was the solution to his inability to get a job. He may have also been lulled into a false sense of confidence by his stellar performance at UCR into believing that he had what it took to go on to graduate school. It sounds like clearly he didn't, but rather than admit failure, he decided to go out with a bang, only, unlike Harris, he didn't quite succeed. Rather than the shooter putting the punctuation point on his own life, the state will do it, or barring that, some lifer with nothing to lose will gut him like a pig in the shower of the state pen.

Now we can only wait to see what happens.
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Mortyman
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:57 am

From what I understand he rigged his apartment with explosives and put really loud music on to attract police to the apartment and trap them in an explosion... Don't know if it's true ...
 
smittyone
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:52 am

Quoting ual777 (Reply 51):
Time to freshen the needle and chemical supply at the state prison....Ill be happy to see this f***er fry.

I think you are mixing the hell out of your metaphors here LOL. Or are you saying we should use lethal injection and the electric chair  
Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 64):
The reality is, America, like everywhere, has cultural nuances and differences from other places. They can be a bit Darwinian in their approach and thus the whole "survival of the fittest" defend yourself philosophy is quite broadly represented in the culture. Comparatively, the rest of the western world tends to be a little more collectivist. This culture, plus the obvious, (and potentially dangerous) exercise of gradually disarming the whole population make increased gun control or gun bans a very difficult proposition. Not to mention the political issues attached.

Yep, the way the continent was settled (and by whom) has a lot to do with our current cultural DNA. It will be gradually bred out of us.

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 71):
We hear how if only there were people packing in the theater things would have been different, how if they were there with their gun this doesn't happen. This guy comes decked out in body armor in a dark theater, with gas distraction/irritant, and packing 'as many as 6,000 rounds'. Come on, what were you going to do about it? Under this scenario, your delusions of self-protection become nothing more than a poorly disguised defense mechanism to the dangers presenting us today.

Obviously hyperbole on my part here, but what if EVERYONE were packing? What about half of the audience? What about a quarter? At some point the uncertainty of how many people are armed must have an impact on a potential gunman looking to slaughter sheeple.

On the other hand, this was a tragic incident but we're talking about fewer than 100 people directly affected. If 25% or 50% of the population were consistently packing heat there would probably be many more than that killed every year in accidents.

So, not sure what the answer is but I'm not convinced that gun control will stop nuts from acting out.
 
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AirPacific747
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:55 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 74):

Problem is that it is too easy to get a gun in the US and, and therefore it is too easy to select the quick way of getting rid of people instead of having to think things through first. If you really hate someone, all it takes is to buy a gun and pull the trigger once.. It takes more determination to even stab a person with a knife, plus it would not be as effective if you are going for the masses. Having to first aquire a gun illegally and then shoot people takes more determination and people might think twice about their intentions before they carry them out.
 
PC12Fan
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:36 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 68):
you may have misread me

Perhaps I did.

Regards.
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
mt99
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:14 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 77):
No single background check or waiting period was going to deter him. No limit on magazine capacity would have mattered. And so on and so on.

How about a psychological evaluation?

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 69):
1) There is no surefire way to prevent violence. Before guns, there were swords, axes, spears, and arrows. Before those, there were clubs and rocks

I think that we can agree that if he would have showed up with a bag of rocks the results would have been much different.

While i agree that there surefire way to prevent violence, does that mean that we should enable it?

[Edited 2012-07-21 09:27:59]
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Aesma
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:02 pm

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 36):
While I'm opposed to more gun ownership restrictions I didn't know that tear gas and pepper spray in any quantity is legal to own in Colorado. Not sure I agree with that.

So, carrying an AR-15 is fine, but have pepper spray in your bag and that's a no-no ?

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 57):
In other countries, in other situations, it's never made a difference to restrict magazine size or restrict ownership.

So, the US has good numbers in gun related injuries and deaths compared to "other countries" ? If you mean Mexico, sure, Western Europe, however...

Quoting Danny (Reply 59):
Bring in more guns!. At least if all those in the cinema had their own AK-47 they could defend themselves couldn't they?

Defend themselves = kill each other until there is no one left standing ?

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 62):
In think one weak point is the emergency doors. All theaters should have this policy: If anyone opens them they should set off an alarm and if are opened, then the showing of the film stopped, the doors secured by inside security before the film continues. If the door cannot be properly secured yet allowing the emergency function, then the 'screen' is closed until it can be.

Aren't emergency doors the regular exit doors (or at least some doors are both) ? What if you just want to get off ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
zanl188
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:04 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 84):
So, the US has good numbers in gun related injuries and deaths compared to "other countries" ? If you mean Mexico, sure, Western Europe, however...

Weapon of choice in Europe over the last few decades or so has been a bomb... I wonder how those numbers would compare...
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EA CO AS
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:16 pm

Quoting mt99 (Reply 83):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 77):No single background check or waiting period was going to deter him. No limit on magazine capacity would have mattered. And so on and so on.
How about a psychological evaluation?

Possibly in this instance, but not in every case. And it's not a realistic option.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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airtechy
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:29 pm

Something to ponder....makes me wonder why I live in the US. Sad really.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...hs-a-familiar-american-experience/

Our problem started over two hundred years ago with the constitution. The US is now awash with guns and beyond any possible control. No politician can be elected without the support of the NRA so nothing about the gun laws will ever change. I am beyond a realist on that.

What I find really sad is the fact that most of my friends have determined that they need a gun for "protection".. ...protection from what? Do you really want to worry wherever you go enough to carry a gun with you? There's probably a better chance you will be killed because of having it.....training or not.

As someone up thread correctly pointed out, guns are a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Someone gets drunk.. shoots his wife and kids... and a minute later realizes what he did and shoots him/herself.

As was discussed on another thread here about the Treyon case, the "Self Defense Shoot First Law" has now made it easier to kill someone and walk free. Claims of self defense have tripled in Florida after the law was enacted.

No law will stop the crazies and I don't see this event changing anything about the gun laws. Already, there are claims that someone with a concealed weapon could have stopped this lunatic. Yep, that's what we need. More untrained wantabe cops blasting away in a crowded dark theater.  
 
mt99
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:57 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 86):
Possibly in this instance, but not in every case. And it's not a realistic option.

Why not a realistic option?
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mt99
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:18 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 60):
Gun activists (like myself) have a lot of influence. 2nd amendment, baby

I find it very ironic that (usually) the anti-gay marriage crowd is all for changing the constitution to define marriage between an man and woman, which does NOT harm anyone - but they their panties up in a bunch anytime the 2nd Ammendment is vaguely threatened.

Th want to change the constitution willy-nilly for something that does not harm anyone, yet when it come to discuss changing the 2nd Amendment - for some reason it becomes the immovable word of God.

Also - as far as the "Constitutionality" goes.. the ACA act is just as Constitutional as Gun Ownership...

[Edited 2012-07-21 14:23:42]
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TheRedBaron
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:12 pm

Quoting jcs17 (Reply 72):
WTF are you talking about? I don't think I saw a clock strike midnight until I was at least 9 or 10 years old. I may have been a sheltered upper-middle class kid, but at age 6 I was in bed by 7 or 8... every night.

The fact that some absolute zero A) let their 6 year old stay up until midnight B) brought them to a PG-13 movie is grotesque. The parents of that child should be arrested, bar none.

Same here! But its the same I WANT it now, I want it first stupidity of people that makes them take kids to midnight screenings, parties end tons of events that should not allow kids at that time. Heck I would not admit children to First Class Flights (but that is another topic!)

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 73):
Guns make it easy, you can kill someone from across the room or many metres away if you are a trained sniper. Swords, axes, spears and arrows etc. require some serious balls that guns do not. I personally could not do any of the priors to kill another person unless really in a psychotic state but with a gun I would find it almost too easy and from the one time I ever fired a weapon I will stay away from them. I just don't like guns but thats me.

Yes I agree, having the chance to own guns, makes this kind of tragic event happen.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 77):
Look, it's becoming more and more clear that this guy was - despite his horrible, horrible intent - quite clear-thinking and intelligent, and he PLANNED THIS OUT FOR WEEKS, IF NOT MONTHS.

There's no way this madman could have been stopped if no one knew of his intentions beforehand. None.
No single background check or waiting period was going to deter him. No limit on magazine capacity would have mattered. And so on and so on.

Hence guns should be outlawed, if he planned for years, he could not accomplish anything if guns were outlawed since, getting weapons would have been impossible.

Quoting mt99 (Reply 89):
Th want to change the constitution willy-nilly for something that does not harm anyone, yet when it come to discuss changing the 2nd Amendment - for some reason it becomes the immovable word of God.

Doesn't have any kind of logic, but who says logic works in the current state of the USA?

Waiting for metal detectors and scanners in malls in 5, 4, 3 , 2.....
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EA CO AS
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:29 pm

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 90):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 77):Look, it's becoming more and more clear that this guy was - despite his horrible, horrible intent - quite clear-thinking and intelligent, and he PLANNED THIS OUT FOR WEEKS, IF NOT MONTHS.

There's no way this madman could have been stopped if no one knew of his intentions beforehand. None.
No single background check or waiting period was going to deter him. No limit on magazine capacity would have mattered. And so on and so on.
Hence guns should be outlawed

Sorry, The Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution says otherwise. Try again.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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PHX787
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:37 pm

Quoting mt99 (Reply 89):
I find it very ironic that (usually) the anti-gay marriage crowd is all for changing the constitution to define marriage between an man and woman, which does NOT harm anyone - but they their panties up in a bunch anytime the 2nd Ammendment is vaguely threatened.

Um...Who said I'm against gay marriage?

I'm a libertarian who reads up and researches contentious issues.

People usually criticize me because they're too ignorant to know the actual case of the issue, OR in some cases immediately associate me as a bible thumping republican.

Please read up on ME before you proceed to critique me on something that I never previously stated.
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BMI727
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:41 pm

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 90):
Hence guns should be outlawed, if he planned for years, he could not accomplish anything if guns were outlawed since, getting weapons would have been impossible

If guns were outlawed he would have found guns illegally. Considering the lengths this guy went to, a few more hoops to get an illegal weapon wouldn't mean much to him. Did you read the article I posted earlier? You can order a grenade on the internet and have it sent to your doorstep.

Let me try and make this clear, so even dumb people can understand: THIS IS NOT THE SORT OF CRIME STRICTER GUN LAWS WOULD PREVENT!!!
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
eaa3
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:16 am

Every year there are about 100,000 people shot in America, that's:

IN ONE YEAR (all ages)
- Almost 100,000 people in America
are shot in murders, assaults, suicides, accidents, or by police intervention.
31,593 people died from gun violence
-12,179 people murdered.
-18,223 people killed themselves.
-592 people killed accidentally.
-326 killed by police intervention.
-273 died but intent was not known.
66,769 people survived gun injuries
-44,466 people injured in an attack.
-3,013 people injured in a suicide attempt.
-18,610 people shot accidentally.
-679 people shot in a police intervention.
IN ONE YEAR (ages 0-19)
-Almost 20,000 American children and teens
are shot in murders, assaults, suicides, accidents, or by police intervention.
2,966 kids died from gun violence
-2,037 children and teens murdered.
-748 kids killed themselves.
-123 children and teens killed accidentally.
-19 killed by police intervention.
-39 died but the intent was unknown.
14,008 kids survived gun injuries
-10,038 injured in an attack.
-165 injured in a suicide attempt.
-3,588 shot accidentally.
-218 shot in a police intervention.
EVERY DAY (on average)
-Every day, 270 people in America, 47 of them children and teens
are shot in murders, assaults, suicides, accidents, and police intervention.
-Every day, 87 people die from gun violence, 33 of them murdered.
-Every day, 8 children and teens die from gun violence.
-Every day, 183 people are shot, but survive their gun injuries.
-Every day, 38 children and teens are shot, but survive their gun injuries.


Here is a list of mass shootings in the America in July, this shooting was certainly not the only one. This doesn't count shootings where only one person was shot:
Tuscaloosa, AL
July 17, 2012
A gunman stood outside of a crowded downtown bar and opened fire from two different
positions early Tuesday, sending patrons running or crawling for cover. At least 17 people
were hurt. Nathan Van Wilkins, 44, surrendered about 10 hours after the shooting near the
University of Alabama campus, police said. Authorities believe one of the bar patrons was a
target of the rampage and that it was connected to an earlier shooting at a home. (Alabama
shooting suspect surrenders, SFGate, July 17 2012)

Chicago, IL
July 11, 2012
Four youngsters are among the latest victims caught in Chicago’s gun violence epidemic,
including two middle school-aged girls who were wounded in a neighborhood park on the Far
South Side. (Gun Violence Leaves 4 More Chicago Youth Wounded, CBS Chicago, July 11
2012)

Dover, DE
July 9, 2012
At a weekend soccer tournament in Delaware three people died and two were wounded. The
dead included the tournament organizer, a 16-year-old boy participating in the tournament and
one of three suspects alleged to have initiated the deadly violence Sunday afternoon at a park
near downtown Wilmington. (3 dead after gunfire at Del. soccer tournament, AP, July 9 2012)

Chicago, IL
July 6, 2012
Three people were shot, a 19-year-old man was shot in the calf, a 34-year-old man was shot in
the back and a 24-year-old man was shot in the thigh. The oldest was taken to Advocate Christ
Medical Center in critical condition and the other two were taken to Roseland Hospital, Alfaro
said. Someone approached the three on a bicycle and opened fire. (3 dead, 7 wounded in
shootings across city, Chicago Tribune, July 9 2012)


Seattle, WA
July 02, 2012
One killed, five injured at party.
Gunfire erupted at a South Seattle home where a party was underway. Six people were hit with
flying bullets as multiple shots were fired. One of the wounded, a 21-year old woman, later died.
(MORE GUN VIOLENCE IN SEATTLE, Sky Valley Chronicle, July 2 2012)

Chicago, IL
July 1, 2012
One man was killed and a man and woman were injured in a shooting that occurred early
Sunday in the East Garfield Park neighborhood, police said. A 22-year-old man was shot in the
head and pronounced dead on the scene. (Cops: 1 dead, 2 injured in West Side shooting,
Chicago Tribune July 1, 2012)

Source: http://www.bradycampaign.org




But let's just pretend that this isn't a problem and not try to make it better. Because despite the fact that over 30 people a day die from gun violence we want our guns. 30 people a day is just collateral damage so that we can enjoy our guns!
 
eaa3
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:00 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 98):
He would have gotten weapons anyhow.

Yeah we shouldn't try to prevent bad things because they'll happen anyway!
 
BMI727
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:08 am

Quoting eaa3 (Reply 95):
This man could not have killed 12 people and wounded 59 with anything but a gun.

A bomb could probably kill a lot more.

Quoting eaa3 (Reply 97):
-18,223 people killed themselves.

Suicides? Really? Where's the campaign to ban Tylenol then?

And what's to say that banning guns would do anything anyway? This is a country full of people who like to own guns, people who like to shoot guns, and people who like to buy, sell, and make guns. Does anyone really expect them to all just drop it and move on as soon as a law is passed? The people who would immediately and fully comply with such a law are the people who cause no problems with their guns. Anyone who is willing to rob a store with a gun or murder someone with a gun isn't going to have any qualms about keeping a gun they aren't supposed to have.

Frankly, I think it will be more like prohibition, and succeed in little more than making a lot of shady characters very rich. Not that there aren't such shady characters out there already, seeing as it's possible to get enough weapons to take Panama delivered to my doorstep illegally. I'm sure that the ATF has enough on their plates trying to stop things like that without having to worry about taking Billybob's hunting rifle.

Quoting eaa3 (Reply 99):
Yeah we shouldn't try to prevent bad things because they'll happen anyway!

This is like banning kittens because you got bitten by a lion. I'm not saying you cannot make a decent argument in favor of gun control, but this and suicides cannot be part of it lest you torpedo whatever credibility you have.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
eaa3
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:31 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 96):
A bomb could probably kill a lot more.

Yes, and we ban bombs. There are strict "bomb control laws". The FBI monitors purchases of bomb making materials and you can only buy them if you have a legit need for them.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 96):
Suicides? Really? Where's the campaign to ban Tylenol then?

I'm mostly talking about homicides but suicides are also a factor. Many suicides are spur of the moment suicides and having a gun makes it easier and more likely to succeed. Easy access to guns increase the amount of suicides but also means that people are more likely to succeed and therefore means more successful suicides.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 96):
This is a country full of people who like to own guns, people who like to shoot guns, and people who like to buy, sell, and make guns.

This is the core of the problem. People like their guns and are therefore don't care about the 12 thousand people who are killed in homicides by guns every year,a number that could be decreased by reducing access to guns. It's just collateral damage. People care more about keeping their guns than reducing gun deaths.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 96):
This is like banning kittens because you got bitten by a lion.

No don't ban the kittens. Ban the lions(guns). We already ban lions in public. Generally when a mountain lion enters a populated place it is shot by the police.
 
canoecarrier
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:36 am

Quoting mt99 (Reply 83):
How about a psychological evaluation?

What criteria do you use to exclude someone from gun ownership? This guy never exhibited any signs of psychiatric problems. Either way, if I go to a psychiatrist because I'm OCD about keeping my house clean does that mean I can't own a gun? If a psychiatric condition can preclude your 2nd Amendment right to buy a firearm whats to say that same reasoning can't be used to take away your 1st Amendment right to free speech?

Quoting Aesma (Reply 84):
So, carrying an AR-15 is fine, but have pepper spray in your bag and that's a no-no ?

I do think there should be a reasonable limit to the amount of pepper spray or tear gas a private citizen could own. I don't see a problem with a bear spray amount of pepper spray being available to a citizen. And, there is absolutely no difference between an AR-15 and a Mini-14 other than appearances. Both are commonly used for hunting.

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 90):
Hence guns should be outlawed, if he planned for years, he could not accomplish anything if guns were outlawed since, getting weapons would have been impossible.

I'm glad you don't make public policy decisions in our country.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 93):
THIS IS NOT THE SORT OF CRIME STRICTER GUN LAWS WOULD PREVENT!!!

You are 100% correct.

Quoting eaa3 (Reply 94):
Every year there are about 100,000 people shot in America

And we had 32,885 vehicle related deaths in 2010, are you going to outlaw cars next? What about drunk driving? You could get drunk tomorrow, hit and kill someone and at least in my state you would get a 2 year or less prison sentence.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 96):

Quoting eaa3 (Reply 95):
This man could not have killed 12 people and wounded 59 with anything but a gun.

A bomb could probably kill a lot more.

168 people died in the Oklahoma City bombing with nothing more than a rental truck and a homemade bomb made out of common farm fertilizer. The same thing happened in Oslo.
The beatings will continue until morale improves
 
BMI727
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:48 am

Quoting eaa3 (Reply 97):
The FBI monitors purchases of bomb making materials and you can only buy them if you have a legit need for them.

You'd better hope nobody tries to put that theory to the test. Because I'd bet that someone who wanted to could come up with a rather powerful bomb, just like anyone who really wants to can buy an illegal assault rifle.

Quoting eaa3 (Reply 97):
People like their guns and are therefore don't care about the 12 thousand people who are killed in homicides by guns every year,a number that could be decreased by reducing access to guns.

But the people who are committing those homicides probably won't have their gun supply reduced that much.

Quoting eaa3 (Reply 97):
No don't ban the kittens. Ban the lions(guns). We already ban lions in public. Generally when a mountain lion enters a populated place it is shot by the police.

You missed the analogy. This guy was a borderline terrorist, hell bent on killing people. He would have gotten guns anyway. If not from a local gun shop then from The Armory or some other illegal channel. Or if not that then he could have made a car bomb or bomb vest. If you ban guns you won't stop guys like this. You won't stop drug cartels or big time gangs and you won't stop terrorists. You might stop some small time crooks and you'll definitely stop a lot of hunters and law abiding gun enthusiasts.

I know before I said I don't care about gun control, but I think I do now. Not because I'm worried about people taking away guns but because I'm worried about what they might take away next.

Sure nobody needs an AR-15 to go deer hunting or defend themselves from burglars, but then nobody needs 400 horsepower to commute to work or go to the store either. I don't need a sport suspension to drop off family members at the airport. I want the fast car because I like it and I think it's cool. And in a country that values freedom, at least in theory, that is all the justification anyone ever needs. I want it, and that's the end of the story. And as long as I don't encroach on anyone else's rights, it isn't anyone's business but mine.

So I think I have no choice but to be anti-gun control even though I'm completely indifferent to gun ownership. I don't want to see the mouse get that cookie.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
PHX787
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:43 am

From FOX tonight:

"the discussion about Gun Control is relevant, but we should have more of a discussion about mental health, and how someone can snap in a short period of time. We need to figure out those warning signs. It's the people, not the guns."
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Geezer
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RE: Denver Cinema Shooting 14 Dead And Upto 50 Injured

Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:30 am

Well, here we go again ! Another "disturbed" fruit-cake malcontent kills a bunch of innocent people, and it's already all about "needing more gun control" !

First of all, as we are all aware, every city cop, sheriff, state cop, and many game wardens in the U.S. are armed with hand guns; yet, in spite of the fact that 99.9 % of law enforcement officers are decent, law abiding people, (and as we all know), a few aren't law abiding at all; (Drew Peterson comes to mind) My point being, are we to "dis-arm" our police, so as to make sure the 1/10 of one % "bad" cops don't have a gun ? And I'm sure all of you ant-gun folks have a fool-proof "plan" for dis-arming all of the criminals, druggies, etc. which always have had, and always will have guns.

Face it gun control advocates, you, me, and everyone else, lives in a very violent world; it's also becoming MORE violent with each passing day; if you want to ensure tragedies like this never happen again, I suggest you come up with a plan for getting rid of all the violent people, rather than attempting to deny law-abiding, peaceful people the right to defend themselves.

As long as there are violent people, there will always be violence; period.

Now........

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 15):
A film industry that glorifies this behaviour with gunnings, with numbers of people who flock to it for entertainment and then they get hit by the same... a man in riot gear with hoodie thinking he is "batman"... how ugly!

Thank you MadameConcorde ! I completely agree about the film industry; they churn out little BUT violence; why is this ?
obviously, because violence "sells"; The public demands violence ! Yet, every time we see violence such as this occur, you may be very sure you will see gun control advocates crying for no guns for non-violent people !

I think of it as the "wimp factor"; the folks who A. are "afraid" of guns, B. don't want to "bother" being able to defend themselves, C. and also don't want ME to be able to defend myself, are all D. wimps ! (and I mean no disrespect by saying that) I say it merely because it's true;

I'm not real big on paying for fire insurance; but I buy it just the same, "just in case" ! If you don't want to pay for fire insurance, that's your business; I'm not going to attempt to force you to.

Back to the Century Theater..............out of all those people, only ONE person was "armed" ! and HE went there with the intention of murdering as many people as possible, (maybe even hoping to "set a new record" ?) It's a damned shame........all those people, going to see a violent film, yet not one has the presence of mind to recognize the fact, that with so many violence-loving people in attendance, that there just may be a need to be able to defend AGAINST violence directed against themselves. I wonder how many of those folks carry a spare tire in their car when they go on vacation ? Personally, I ALWAYS "carry" a spare tire ! And I almost always carry something to deal with violence, should it occur. Yes, it's a lot of "trouble", it's a lot of responsibility, and it has no "guarantee", but I will point out one thing you may not be aware of; 98% of the people who carry weapons for self defense, also train regularly, and practice, practice, practice ! Apparently this guy in Colorado spent a lot of money on guns and other "gear", but I'm willing to wager that if he came up against the average well-practiced pistol shooter, he would have had a large bloody hole in his fore head, long before he could have murdered 12 people. Just ONE average, law-abiding, well prepared gun owner, and the death toll could have been much different !

Yet everyone is screaming,,,,,,,,,"where were the cops ?" To which I must ask.........."If all those people going at midnight to see a violent film, and are not "interested enough" to be able to defend themselves, how can they possibly expect the police to be every place, all the time, when we all know it's completely impossible ?

There are quite a few states in the U.S. where citizens ARE able to protect themselves; I'm very fortunate......I live in one of them.

Charley
Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein

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