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Polot
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RE: Opel To Sell Cadillac XTS In Europe As Opel Omega

Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:05 pm

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 49):
You're forgetting where the car was invented, I'll give you a hint, it wasn't in the US. American cars weren't better in the first half of the 20th century either. US cars have pretty much soild best in North America yet failed outside North America, that's pretty much the history of US automakers in a nutshell.

Yes, I am aware that the first modern car was made in Europe. It is hard (and ridiculous) to argue that one company was better on a global scale than others in the first half of the 20th century though. North American cars failed outside of North America, and European cars failed outside of Europe other than where they had colonies. That has more to do with the lack of large scale globalization and far greater market restrictions than whether a car was superior or not though.

[Edited 2012-07-27 07:06:38]
 
ozglobal
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RE: Opel To Sell Cadillac XTS In Europe As Opel Omega

Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:09 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 48):
Quoting ozglobal (Reply 45):
Umh, I get that they once made top quality cars , between WWI and WWII and were recognized for it. But USA doss not equal 'the world'. I'm not sure Cadillac has never been 'the standard of the world', even if it was the standard in the US.
Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 47):
What a pity, that nobody outside the US knew that.

It is just a saying that people said, it is not like someone objectively decided that it was true, just like BMW's "Ultimate Driving Machine." And in the first half of the 20th century there really wasn't all that much competition from the rest of the world...

You guys are nitpicking over the littlest details because you can't accept that Cadillac was once considered one of the best cars in the world.

No,I think that you are just having trouble seeing that terms like 'best in the World' that roll off the tounge so freely in the US don't make sense in international conversation. Don't be surprised to be called on it.
 
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Polot
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RE: Opel To Sell Cadillac XTS In Europe As Opel Omega

Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:24 pm

Quoting ozglobal (Reply 51):
No,I think that you are just having trouble seeing that terms like 'best in the World' that roll off the tounge so freely in the US don't make sense in international conversation. Don't be surprised to be called on it.

Its marketing. US companies do it, European companies do it (Ryanair "World's Favourite" Airline anyone?). It is possible to not take everything so literal and accept the meaning behind the phrase.
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: Opel To Sell Cadillac XTS In Europe As Opel Omega

Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:02 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 50):
North American cars failed outside of North America, and European cars failed outside of Europe other than where they had colonies.

European cars didn't fail outside of Europe in the first half of the 20th century, where do you think most of the worlds cars came from outside of North America, hint it wasn't the US.
 
mham001
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RE: Opel To Sell Cadillac XTS In Europe As Opel Omega

Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:47 pm

Quoting ozglobal (Reply 37):
That Cadis do ok in their local US market, is not in question, just whether Europeans will want them or not in face of the options...

Yes it was the question. You stated 'those poor rednecks would all buy European cars if only they could afford them'. I really don't want to turn this into a US market thread, it is not, and I am not the biggest GM fan, but some of the tripe in this thread needs response. I am also not trying to say Cadillac can do well in Europe, I really don't know, but to dismiss it would be foolish. We have seen several turn-arounds from poor quality in less than a decade, Hyundai is one, VW is currently trying.

Quoting JJJ (Reply 46):
Do you really think VW worries about market share? This is what they care for:

You are seriously out of touch. That is VW's stated goal, to be the #1 car maker in the world before 2020. They repeat it often. How do they do that? Market share.

Quoting JJJ (Reply 46):
How of earth do you get a 26% sales growth if you're fighting quality problems? It's obvious that not only they're in great shape, they're also getting better.

Just 5 years ago, there was talk of VW leaving the US.. http://www.autoblog.com/2007/07/18/would-vw-leave-the-us-market/
You are free to search JD Powers and Consumer Reports for past and present quality rankings.
edit: Here is a start. All you arrogant Europhiles would do well to compare Cadillac with your Premium brands. And look at VW, oh my... http://autos.jdpower.com/ratings/dep...study=909201235&catStudy=909201236

Quoting JJJ (Reply 46):
I've been spending an average 6 weeks a year in the US for the last 7 years, thanks. I've driven the whole lot probably the whole Ford lineup (thanks Hertz) lots of japanese, a few Buicks, Chryslers, Jeeps, Caddys and Chevys as well, including probably the worst car ever: a 2007 or 08 Impala SS. Several thousand miles, in over 20 states, city, rural and interstate driving.

Given all that, it surprising how you believed we all drive 2 hours to work.

[Edited 2012-07-27 09:11:34]
 
Flighty
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RE: Opel To Sell Cadillac XTS In Europe As Opel Omega

Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:38 pm

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 49):
You're forgetting where the car was invented, I'll give you a hint, it wasn't in the US. American cars weren't better in the first half of the 20th century either. US cars have pretty much soild best in North America yet failed outside North America, that's pretty much the history of US automakers in a nutshell.

We respect foreign cars very well in the US. Arguably US cars are under-rated now, globally, including in the US.

Since the US is a declining percentage of the world economy, our automakers can no longer focus purely at home. Try to have sympathy for the situation. They have equal talent with Mercedes-Benz or Volkswagen, they are just stumbling on marketing.

Opel and Vauxhall and Holden should all be eliminated. It is a global market now. Chevy, Buick and Cadillac are GM now. They have full heritage and can appeal to global markets on their own.
 
ozglobal
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RE: Opel To Sell Cadillac XTS In Europe As Opel Omega

Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:53 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 55):
Since the US is a declining percentage of the world economy, our automakers can no longer focus purely at home.


They haven't been focused only at home for over half a century.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 55):
They have equal talent with Mercedes-Benz or Volkswagen, they are just stumbling on marketing.

We're speaking about product, not just talent. The products are not equivalent by the market and most poster's reckonging on this forum.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 55):
Try to have sympathy for the situation.

You mean 'have sympathy for some home grown automotive traditions'? Like saying,

Quoting Flighty (Reply 55):
Opel and Vauxhall and Holden should all be eliminated.

?

Quoting Flighty (Reply 55):
It is a global market now. Chevy, Buick and Cadillac are GM now. They have full heritage and can appeal to global markets on their own.

An austounding series of statements: if I understand:

- It's a global market and US manufactures need to succeed abroad in order to survive. OK . But

- There are local brands in the US like "Chevy, Buick and Cadillac" with "full heritage"...

- There are local brands in the UK, Germany and Australia with "full heritage"...

- But it's a "global market now"

- Therefore we should "have some sympathy" for the US brand heritage and

- "Opel and Vauxhall and Holden should all be eliminated" along with their venerable local heritage
 
mham001
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RE: Opel To Sell Cadillac XTS In Europe As Opel Omega

Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:31 pm

Quoting ozglobal (Reply 56):
The products are not equivalent by the market and most poster's reckonging on this forum.

Define "equivalent" please. Equivalent quality? Reliability? Aesthetics, ergonomics? Performance?

Quoting ozglobal (Reply 56):
- "Opel and Vauxhall and Holden should all be eliminated" along with their venerable local heritage

Holden lost all credibility. Their management should be fired, as well as their US handlers. What is Holden now best known for? Thievery and incompetence.
 
IH8BY
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RE: Opel To Sell Cadillac XTS In Europe As Opel Omega

Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:04 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 55):

Opel and Vauxhall and Holden should all be eliminated. It is a global market now. Chevy, Buick and Cadillac are GM now. They have full heritage and can appeal to global markets on their own.

Why? Chevrolet and Cadillac have little brand value in Europe, and Buick is practically unknown. Relatively weak as their brand image is, Opel and Vauxhall at least retain some emotional identity with European consumers - the US brands don't even have that. Ford works because the Ford name has been built up in Europe over many years; now is surely not the time to GM to be starting such an adventure! Chevrolet's growth in Europe has been due to its value offering, but that's not likely to be sustainable if the brand is stretched to vehicles manufactured in Europe.

The fact that Opel/Vauxhall aren't BMW/Audi/Mercedes or even VW is a challenge that the US brands will face too.

That's before you even look at the practicalities. The products that the markets demand are - with the possible exception of Cadillac's market - still not the same on either side of the Atlantic. It's not even as though the US product could be seamlessly cascaded on to the European market.

It's not impossible, but surely exceptionally costly and risky for a move that doesn't guarantee any progress.
 
ozglobal
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RE: Opel To Sell Cadillac XTS In Europe As Opel Omega

Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:28 pm

Quoting IH8BY (Reply 58):
Quoting Flighty (Reply 55):

Opel and Vauxhall and Holden should all be eliminated. It is a global market now. Chevy, Buick and Cadillac are GM now. They have full heritage and can appeal to global markets on their own.

Why? Chevrolet and Cadillac have little brand value in Europe, and Buick is practically unknown. Relatively weak as their brand image is, Opel and Vauxhall at least retain some emotional identity with European consumers - the US brands don't even have that.

Right, and the fact that Flighty is suggesting is a perfect demonstration of the same misguided thinking that is pressing GM to propose it (if they indeed are).
 
racko
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RE: Opel To Sell Cadillac XTS In Europe As Opel Omega

Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:06 pm

Quoting IH8BY (Reply 58):
Ford works because the Ford name has been built up in Europe over many years

Ford is seen as German in Germany. If you ask your average Joe on the streets here: "Where's Ford from?" the answer will most likely be "Cologne". Makes sense, too, considering that Fiesta, Focus and Mondeo are all developed there.
 
BMI727
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RE: Opel To Sell Cadillac XTS In Europe As Opel Omega

Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:15 pm

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 44):
It should be fairly easy for them to modify Opels 4 cylinder diesels for a RWD instillation, what GM don't have is a suitable 3.0 6 cylinder diesel.

Cadillac's record of dropping diesels in their cars isn't the greatest.

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 44):
Ruf will sell you alloy wheels, they won't sell you engine modifications without buying the entire car.

This would seem to indicate otherwise, but some of the mods do say they need to be installed by Ruf.
http://www.ruf-automobile.de/en/en-fahrzeuge-ruf-veredelung.php

Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 47):
"Standart of the world"?  

Yeah, but only in the US.

What a pity, that nobody outside the US knew that.

First of all, you couldn't get foreign cars as easily. You didn't have Mercedes and BMW dealerships in every city. A lot of the rise of European car manufacturers can be credited to Max Hoffman.

Secondly, in the 1950s, standard of the world in cars largely was standard of America. Europe was split in half and still recovering from WWII, the rise of Asia was still in the future, and there were not yet many wealthy Middle Easterners who were buying fleets of exotic cars. Meanwhile, Americans were buying and driving cars like there was no tomorrow.

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 49):
US cars have pretty much soild best in North America yet failed outside North America, that's pretty much the history of US automakers in a nutshell.

A big part of the success of European automakers stems from the fact that in the middle of the 20th century, America was loving cars and presented a huge market. Importers, particularly Hoffman, were feeding manufacturers ideas and specifications with Americans in mind. The foreign divisions of American manufacturers like Ford Europe and Opel operated with more autonomy producing models just for Europe, which is a contrast to European makers where their American offerings are generally a subset of their full lineup rather than a different lineup. I can't recall off the top of my head BMW, Mercedes, and the like producing models exclusively for the American market.

It only made sense for Detroit to worry about America and let their European divisions do basically whatever since the American market was so large and different. The result is what you have today, for better or worse. Changing taste and some oil crises have pushed the markets together somewhat, so now large scale sharing of models (with changes) and platforms is possible, but I would argue that European and Asian manufacturers are better suited to do so.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 55):
They have full heritage and can appeal to global markets on their own.

Not outside of North America. Chinese like Buicks but that's about it.
 
Flighty
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RE: Opel To Sell Cadillac XTS In Europe As Opel Omega

Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:32 pm

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 59):
Right, and the fact that Flighty is suggesting is a perfect demonstration of the same misguided thinking that is pressing GM to propose it (if they indeed are).

GM's European unit loses money and should be entirely shut down. It lacks sustainable business prospects. Detroit knows this and is only considering how to close Opel.

The remaining question is, should GM sell its main lines globally or not. I believe they will, as Toyota and Ford do. (The "One Ford" strategy is influential here.)

If Chevrolet and Buick are not known globally, that reflects a big opportunity. Their current model lineups are excellent and advancing quickly, and GM has plans to distribute them globally. In the future, the majority of the auto industry will be non-US and non-Europe. It is that majority of future buyers that GM is now going after.
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: Opel To Sell Cadillac XTS In Europe As Opel Omega

Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:59 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 62):
The remaining question is, should GM sell its main lines globally or not. I believe they will, as Toyota and Ford do.

  

General Motors has already embraced this, at least as far as their Buick division is concerned. Buick USA senior management has stated numerous times over the past few years that the model line Buick offers in Asia/China will be the same as the model line Buick offers in the USA. Thus, the new Verano and Encore models are offered in America, although Buick knows that these more "entry level" Buick models are truly aimed at the Chinese market - but they could find enough buyers in North America to make a profit - especially the very nicely-appointed Verano sedan.

In addition, with the (well-deserved) death of Daewoo Motors as a GM marketing entity, Chevrolet has take over as the entry level brand in Asia.
 
mham001
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RE: Opel To Sell Cadillac XTS In Europe As Opel Omega

Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:35 pm

Quoting JJJ (Reply 46):
So? We're talking about today, and today Renault has a firm foot planted on the US market in Nissan.

Good point. I am fully willing to look at it with an open mind and accept that things can change. Why can't you with Cadillac?

Should mention too that the Nissan Versa, a fruit of that Renault alliance, is widely thought to be the worst car sold in the US. Is this the European quality to which we can look forward?

I've been looking at the US customer complaints and the only European manufacturer that matches Cadillac owners satisfaction is Mercedes, each with above average ratings (Lexus sets the standard). BMW is only average and VW is below average after 3 years of ownership. I understand this is in a different market, but why would these issues be so different there?

I don't much care for Cadillacs design style and have little interest in them, but this kneejerking about the possibility of GM introducing a car that may be superior to much of what is currently being sold is interesting.
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: Opel To Sell Cadillac XTS In Europe As Opel Omega

Sat Jul 28, 2012 5:55 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 55):
They have equal talent with Mercedes-Benz or Volkswagen, they are just stumbling on marketing.

No they don't, there's not a single product made by US manufacturers that matches the product made by Mercedes and VW, especially at the top end of there respective ranges.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 57):
Holden lost all credibility. Their management should be fired, as well as their US handlers. What is Holden now best known for? Thievery and incompetence.

The amount of coverage this got in the local media was pretty slight, the average Aussie or Kiwi probably couldn't care less that parts were stolen by Holden employees.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 61):
Cadillac's record of dropping diesels in their cars isn't the greatest.

I doubt any in Europe would know about those nasty v8 conversions done way back when, simple fact is without diesels Cadillac can forget about selling much product in Europe. I'm pretty sure that if Opel do badge engineer the XTS as an Omega fitting diesels into it will be there number 1 priority.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 64):
Why can't you with Cadillac?

Because Cadillac has failed every time they have attempted to sell cars in Europe, they are simply not on anyone's radar over here.
 
ozglobal
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RE: Opel To Sell Cadillac XTS In Europe As Opel Omega

Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:30 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 64):
I've been looking at the US customer complaints and the only European manufacturer that matches Cadillac owners satisfaction is Mercedes, each with above average ratings (Lexus sets the standard). BMW is only average and VW is below average after 3 years of ownership. I understand this is in a different market, but why would these issues be so different there?

Americans don't drive BMWs or VWs made in the same factories as Europeans. e.g US BMWs are made largely in Mex, I believe. Europeans drive German built ones and that is their reference. We don't libe in the same automotive cosmos.
 
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Polot
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RE: Opel To Sell Cadillac XTS In Europe As Opel Omega

Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:46 pm

Quoting ozglobal (Reply 66):

Americans don't drive BMWs or VWs made in the same factories as Europeans. e.g US BMWs are made largely in Mex, I believe. Europeans drive German built ones and that is their reference. We don't libe in the same automotive cosmos.

I don't believe BMW imports Mexican made cars into the US. All their cars here are made in Germany, South Africa (some 3 series models) or here in the US for the SUVs (which also supplies most of the SUVs to Europe as well).

VW is really the German company that embraced Mexican production for the US market the most.
 
777ER
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RE: Opel To Sell Cadillac XTS In Europe As Opel Omega

Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:36 pm

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 4):
Hasn't GM learnt their lesson on re-badging vehicles in different markets.

The Holden Commodore (Australia and New Zealand model) is sold in different markets and works well as a Chevy.
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: Opel To Sell Cadillac XTS In Europe As Opel Omega

Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:50 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 62):
The "One Ford" strategy is influential here.)

But all the One Ford models were designed and engineered in Europe, that's the difference between Ford and GM.
 
Marcus
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RE: Opel To Sell Cadillac XTS In Europe As Opel Omega

Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:41 pm

The only brands that manufacture in Mexico are...

Ford
GM
Chrysler
FIAT
VW
Toyota
Honda
Nissan

Soon you will be able to add to this list...

Mazda
Audi (?)
 
JJJ
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RE: Opel To Sell Cadillac XTS In Europe As Opel Omega

Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:46 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 54):
Given all that, it surprising how you believed we all drive 2 hours to work.

I never said that, and it's not the first time you're misquoting me. I just said Americans have long commutes which, compared to ours, is a simple fact: 14 miles or so vs 10 kms, which is over double.

The manager at our Los Angeles office drove all the way from his house on the mountains to the office close to LAX, something like 70 miles one-way.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 64):
Should mention too that the Nissan Versa, a fruit of that Renault alliance, is widely thought to be the worst car sold in the US. Is this the European quality to which we can look forward?

Well, you're talking about a car that Nissan developed for emerging markets and is not sold in Europe. Of course it's a turd, but a cheap turd nevertheless.

The first and only time I drove the Versa (called Tiida in the UAE and most other markets) was in Dubai it didn't even have power windows. Of course it drove like it costed and creaked at every joint (which thankfully were just a few, because the interior seemed to be a giant single piece of cheap injected plastic).

Quoting mham001 (Reply 64):
I've been looking at the US customer complaints and the only European manufacturer that matches Cadillac owners satisfaction is Mercedes, each with above average ratings (Lexus sets the standard). BMW is only average and VW is below average after 3 years of ownership. I understand this is in a different market, but why would these issues be so different there?

You have to look at how those studies are made. A couple of years ago, the Spanish equivalent of JD power released a study in which the top-rated marque for complaints was none other than Daihatsu. Why? They sold extremely few cars and seemed to attract the less picky kind of customer. The third was none other than Dacia, the budget Romanian brand part of Renault group. Again, peoples expectations were low enough that few complaints were received. All while Jaguar, that recently topped UK satisfaction charts was a solid mid-low performed.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 64):
I don't much care for Cadillacs design style and have little interest in them, but this kneejerking about the possibility of GM introducing a car that may be superior to much of what is currently being sold is interesting.

Anyone who has followed Cadillac's European record will tell you exactly why and how they have miserably failed each and every time they have tried.

It's amazing how this seemingly prepared people who make a very comfortable living out of selling cars fail to grasp such basic concepts and repeat the same mistakes over and over.
 
BMI727
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RE: Opel To Sell Cadillac XTS In Europe As Opel Omega

Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:34 pm

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 65):
I doubt any in Europe would know about those nasty v8 conversions done way back when, simple fact is without diesels Cadillac can forget about selling much product in Europe.

True.

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 65):
I'm pretty sure that if Opel do badge engineer the XTS as an Omega fitting diesels into it will be there number 1 priority.

They would have to, but if they really want to push Cadillacs in Europe as Opels or anything else, why send the XTS? It's a (second) crappy interim model, when they could sell the much better CTS. But again, unless they could preserve a price differential, they'd come up short against the German brands.

By the way, I just saw that GM made a mid-nine figure deal to have Chevrolet sponsor Manchester United. It makes sense considering that Chevrolet is a worldwide brand and Manchester United is seen outside of Europe, but I can't imagine that this is a positive move for Opel/Vauxhall.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 64):
I don't much care for Cadillacs design style and have little interest in them, but this kneejerking about the possibility of GM introducing a car that may be superior to much of what is currently being sold is interesting.

We're talking about the XTS, so I don't think there's any danger of being superior to what is currently being sold.
 
petertenthije
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RE: Opel To Sell Cadillac XTS In Europe As Opel Omega

Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:51 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 72):
By the way, I just saw that GM made a mid-nine figure deal to have Chevrolet sponsor Manchester United. It makes sense considering that Chevrolet is a worldwide brand and

The jokes have already started in the Netherlands. For instance saying that Chevrolet and Wayne Rooney are a perfect combination. Both are overweight, expensive and heavy drinkers.

[Edited 2012-07-30 14:52:17]
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: Opel To Sell Cadillac XTS In Europe As Opel Omega

Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:47 am

Quoting mham001 (Reply 64):
Should mention too that the Nissan Versa, a fruit of that Renault alliance, is widely thought to be the worst car sold in the US. Is this the European quality to which we can look forward?

Indeed, the auto press hates the Versa (the sedan in particular) but it sells rather well in America due to its less than $12000 USD price tag - cheaper than most decent used cars here. And a Versa buyer gets a new-car warranty from Nissan. Admittedly, the resale value of a Versa will be incredibly low - but most Versa buyers will drive the car into the dirt anyhow, so resale doesn't matter to them. Oh, and the Versa has a huge back seat and trunk for a sub-compact. Cheap and big is a winning formula in the USA.....
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: Opel To Sell Cadillac XTS In Europe As Opel Omega

Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:27 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 72):
They would have to, but if they really want to push Cadillacs in Europe as Opels or anything else, why send the XTS? It's a (second) crappy interim model, when they could sell the much better CTS. But again, unless they could preserve a price differential, they'd come up short against the German brands.

It doesn't really matter what model of Cadillac they decide to sell in Europe badged as an Opel, it's not going to sell anyway, when a European wants to buy a premium saloon they buy one from Audi, BMW, Mercedes or Jaguar, the list of mass market brands who have dumped the big saloon is writ lagre, Ford dropped the Granada/Scorpio, Renault dropped the Vel Satis, Peugeot dropped the 607, Opel themselves dropped the Omega/Senator, they just don't sell.
 
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WildcatYXU
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RE: Opel To Sell Cadillac XTS In Europe As Opel Omega

Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:45 am

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 74):
Cheap and big is a winning formula in the USA.....

Not only in the USA. Just look at Dacia sales in Europe. And then talk about sophisticated European cars...

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 74):
Indeed, the auto press hates the Versa (the sedan in particular)

Which sedan does the press hate? The old one, or the current one (sold in Asia as Almera)
 
mham001
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RE: Opel To Sell Cadillac XTS In Europe As Opel Omega

Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:54 pm

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 65):
The amount of coverage this got in the local media was pretty slight, the average Aussie or Kiwi probably couldn't care less that parts were stolen by Holden employees.

Not sure what that means in the context of keeping Holden alive, I would hope GM management cares to fire those in charge.

Quoting ozglobal (Reply 66):
Americans don't drive BMWs or VWs made in the same factories as Europeans. e.g US BMWs are made largely in Mex, I believe. Europeans drive German built ones and that is their reference. We don't libe in the same automotive cosmos.

That is all model specific and no BMWs are made in Mexico yet. Most of the Mercedes sold here are made in Germany, yet they rate (overall) on par with Cadillac.. Some do know to only buy VW's made in Germany, which pretty much limits us to TDI Sportwagons. BTW, I have owned 2 Mercedes among dozens of German cars, the last being an over-engineered, expensive pos. Really, the only Euro manufacturer who has not had its own dark periods is BMW.

Quoting JJJ (Reply 71):
All while Jaguar, that recently topped UK satisfaction charts was a solid mid-low performed.

Of course it does because that's all it deserves.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 72):
By the way, I just saw that GM made a mid-nine figure deal to have Chevrolet sponsor Manchester United. It makes sense considering that Chevrolet is a worldwide brand and Manchester United is seen outside of Europe, but I can't imagine that this is a positive move for Opel/Vauxhall.

Turns out, that was the move that cost their world marketing chief his job last weekend. Apparently, that decision was not vetted.

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 76):
Which sedan does the press hate? The old one, or the current one (sold in Asia as Almera)

I don't know about the press but I have been reading owners opinions of the current model and they are not pretty. The CVT is universally despised. It's apparently "European" though, according to Anet lore, it must be good.

[Edited 2012-07-31 09:01:36]
 
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WildcatYXU
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RE: Opel To Sell Cadillac XTS In Europe As Opel Omega

Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:27 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 77):
I don't know about the press but I have been reading owners opinions of the current model and they are not pretty.



This one?

http://www.roadandtrack.com/var/ezfl...sa-sedan-1_gallery_image_large.jpg

Because if it's this one, it has nothing to do with Europe. But the other Versa is a real POS. I rented it once, never again.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 77):
The CVT is universally despised



Yes, that's very easy to hate. But I hate all automatics, so my opinion is irrelevant here.
 
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Kiwirob
Posts: 13633
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: Opel To Sell Cadillac XTS In Europe As Opel Omega

Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:36 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 77):
Some do know to only buy VW's made in Germany, which pretty much limits us to TDI Sportwagons.

If by TDI sportwagon you mean the Jetta, they are all made in Mexico, even the Euro market ones. The Touraeg is made in Europe.
 
racko
Posts: 4548
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:06 am

RE: Opel To Sell Cadillac XTS In Europe As Opel Omega

Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:32 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 77):
Turns out, that was the move that cost their world marketing chief his job last weekend. Apparently, that decision was not vetted.

Well they are reportedly paying more than twice as much as AON, ManUtd's current shirt sponsor, is paying per season, plus a giant signing fee. Classic GM incompetence. It's a $700 million deal, no way that was just this guy's fault, the board must have signed off and when they realized how much money they are wasting, someone had to take the fall.

In related GM insanity, Opel's new design chief was fired. 3 days before he even started his job.
 
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Kiwirob
Posts: 13633
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: Opel To Sell Cadillac XTS In Europe As Opel Omega

Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:18 am

Quoting mham001 (Reply 77):
The CVT is universally despised. It's apparently "European" though, according to Anet lore, it must be good.

Audi's CVT is very good.
 
JJJ
Posts: 4109
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

RE: Opel To Sell Cadillac XTS In Europe As Opel Omega

Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:23 am

Quoting mham001 (Reply 77):
It's apparently "European" though, according to Anet lore, it must be good.

What european?, it's a cheap Nissan designed to be sold for peanuts in Thailand and Angola, nothing more.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 77):
Of course it does because that's all it deserves.

You might want to check your own sources, currently they're 2nd in the US, just below your beloved Lexus.

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