US Citizen Re-entering USA On A Foreign Passport

AM744 · Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:56 pm

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 43):
I would like to know the different processes in different countries.

In Mexico City you showed up at the passport office early in the morning with the usual documents: birth certicate, old passport, etc. They processed your application and that same afternoon you could pick it up or have it seen via parcel service. Now I think you need to make an appointment which could be granted for any given day in the following two or three weeks. It was better before if you ask me.

N1120A · Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:19 pm

Your friend can't enter on his foreign passport. Its only a reliable ID to the US government at this point. Your friend can enter without a passport, but opens himself up to hassle and perhaps a fine. The hassle part is especially true because he is Mexican - given how US immigration staff treat Mexicans in the first place.

Quoting flanker (Reply 11):
It is the United States Customs officer that will not let him come into the country if he doesn't have papers, let alone a "visa".

That's incorrect. You MUST be allowed into the US if you are a citzen/national.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 20):
It just cost more, and a few more hoops to jump through including going in person to the Passport Agency.

And you are assuming the person was able to do that.

Quoting Arrow (Reply 24):
She's never had a US passport, doesn't want a US passport, and believes she ditched her US citizenship in 1974 when she became a Canadian (at that time, those were the rules).

It is extremely difficult to lose US citizenship, particularly if you were born in the US. You have to go through formal renunciation or commit treason.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 34):
Technically, a green card holder is not to leave the US within their two-year probationary period.

That isn't true.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 45):
Any need for a guarantor or character references that the passport office can contact to confirm that they know you and can confirm you are of good character.

Sounds distinctly Canadian, and quite weird. If you produce your old passport, I don't see why you can't just give that.

StarAC17 · Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:18 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 51):
Sounds distinctly Canadian, and quite weird. If you produce your old passport, I don't see why you can't just give that.

It's relatively new but if you are in Canada you do that if provided your old passport its hasn't been expired over a year. That can only be done in Canada and can't be done at Canadian embassies and consulates.

Maverick623 · Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:36 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 51):
It is extremely difficult to lose US citizenship, particularly if you were born in the US. You have to go through formal renunciation or commit treason.

It's actually (theoretically) impossible to have your US citizenship taken away if you are a natural-born citizen. Even Anwar al-Aulaqi and his 16 year-old son Abdul-Rahman al-Aulaqi (both natural-born US citizens born in the US) were still US citizens at the time of their assassinations by the CIA.

Even in cases of formal renunciation, the IRS can say (and has said) that a renunciation is invalid and that you still owe taxes.

Kind of a disturbing thing: you can be killed without due process, but God forbid you try to renounce your citizenship.

Aesma · Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:35 pm

Quoting Arrow (Reply 49):
Try to imagine the reaction in the US if the next terrorist captured/killed has a Canadian passport.

Well, I would expect the main reaction to be directed at US security operations, after all they force everybody to go through a lot of hassle, including for flights that don't even have the US as origin or destination.

Arrow · Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:23 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 53):
Even in cases of formal renunciation, the IRS can say (and has said) that a renunciation is invalid and that you still owe taxes.

Indeed, the HEART Act of 2008 separates US citizenship into two categories --- one governed by the state department, the other by the IRS. My wife "relinquished" her US citizenship in 1974 when she became a Canadian citizen, and the State Department is issuing her a CLN (Certificate of Lost Nationality) dated 1974. But as far as the IRS is concerned, she should have been filing US tax returns every year for the last 38 years (and now FBARS as well -- never mind that those rules were not put in place until 20 years after her expatriating act.) There's a good chance she'll never be able to safely cross the border again -- which suits her just fine at this point.

Given one of the principle reasons for the American Revolution was unfair taxation policies by the British Crown, how ironic that the US today has the most repressive and unfair tax code in the developed world. and that it ties taxation to citizenship rather than residence. My advice to anyone contemplating becoming a US citizen is, don't do it unless you plan to live out the rest of your days in the US -- if you ever leave the IRS will chase you to the ends of the earth (same applies to green card holders, too.)

ScarletHarlot · Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:44 pm

Quoting Arrow (Reply 55):
same applies to green card holders, too

That's not my understanding. I am not subject to US taxation on my income if I leave the US, since I am not a US citizen.

Pawsleykat, what did your friend do?

LAXintl · Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:11 pm

US green card holders "resident aliens" must report and file US taxes if they intend retain their green card.

I have many green card holder friends, some on long term overseas contracts and they file and pay US taxes regardless of it being earned overseas.

More details here from IRS
http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/Inter...itizens-and-Resident-Aliens-Abroad

But simply put "Resident aliens are treated the same as U.S. citizens for tax purposes."

and

"You are a resident for tax purposes if you have been given the privilege according to the immigration laws of the United States and been issues a Resident Alien Card, also know as a "green card".
You shall continue to have resident tax status unless such status is taken away or is administratively or judicially determined to have been abandoned."

along with..

Under U.S. Immigration law, a lawful resident alien is required to file a tax return regardless if such person holds actual physical residence in the United States or its territories in same manner U.S. citizen tax payers abroad must comply with U.S tax laws. Failure to file a tax return may be regarded as having willfully abandoned status and may lead to loss of permanent resident status.

Tax guide for resident aliens
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p519.pdf

=

Arrow · Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:00 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 57):
You shall continue to have resident tax status unless such status is taken away or is administratively or judicially determined to have been abandoned."

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 57):
Failure to file a tax return may be regarded as having willfully abandoned status and may lead to loss of permanent resident status.

Bottom line -- they hold all the cards. A green card holder who leaves the country and establishes residence in another country has usually violated -- within a couple of weeks -- most of the "do not do this" provisions in the immigration act. And the US will cheerfully deny that green card holder re-entry to the US, saying you've violated X number of "thou shalt nots" in the immigration act.

BUT --- the IRS still wants its annual 1040s, FBARS, and possibly money --- and they'll hit you with draconian penalties should you screw something up (which with their byzantine tax code is almost guaranteed).

So essentially the State Department will remove all privileges attached to a green card as soon as you break the rules -- except the "privilege" of paying taxes. There are people who left the US and "abandoned" their green cards 40-50 years ago who are just now finding out that the IRS doesn't ever let you go. The concept of having to pay taxes -- or even just file tax forms -- to a country that you haven't lived in for decades constitutes cruel and unusual punishment -- for ex-green card holders AND ex citizens..

7Valleys · Fri Jul 08, 2016 8:54 am

Hi,

I am a dual Australian/US citizen. I was born in a small town in the US midwest and naturalised in Australia. I have lived in both countries. I have travelled the world extensively and it has made me a risk taker. I am currently residing in Australia, but visit the US occasionally. I probably shouldn't be admitting this here but I have entered the US several times on an Australian passport and electronic visa. The only time I was ever questioned was when I took the Miami to Havana flight. Yeah, I know, but the experience was worth it. I was questioned for about half an hour by customs personnel. I had only Australian ID in my wallet (driver licence, credit cards, etc). In the end they let me go, but the key is confidence, and belief in your own story. The old George Constanza saying "It's not a lie if you believe it."

But understand, if they figure it out, (if your birthplace is Los Angeles or New York, fuhgettaboutit), They will make things unpleasant and they will fine you. You are playing on the shear number of people passing through. In an airport like LAX, they have 15 seconds to scan you and your passport visually, the computer will confirm your visa and they will wave you through, often without a word.

But again understand that you are violating US law and you can be fined. It's like speeding, you may not get caught but that doesn't make it legal and if caught you have to pay the fine.

TheFlyingDisk · Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:32 pm

I'm just curious - why does it take 6 weeks to process an American passport (3 weeks for expedited applications)?

Dreadnought · Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:51 pm

ScarletHarlot wrote:
The USA does not recognize citizenship other than US. If you are a US citizen you are supposed to enter the US with your American passport, so the INS may not accept his Mexican passport as ID and might give him a hard time. I wouldn't recommend that he do so until he has his US passport. It is always best to avoid conflict with the INS (or whatever they're called now).

I'm a dual citizen myself, so I've dealt with this all my life. It is true that the US used to not recognize dual citizenship, but that has changed. You are even allowed to serve in foreign armed forces if you are required to (like in Israel or Switzerland), although you might have issues if you become an NCO or officer, as that would imply that you have gone above and beyond what is simply a required period of service.

When I fly to and from the US and Switzerland (my other country of citizenship), I show my US passport at US immigration and my Swiss passport at the other side.

In the OP's particular case, you don't have a US passport yet, so you don't have much choice. I would simply travel on your Mexican passport, but keep your US Citizenship correspondence with you, so that if they do challenge you at immigration, you can show them the paperwork and explain that you are still waiting for your new passport.

7Valleys wrote:
But again understand that you are violating US law and you can be fined. It's like speeding, you may not get caught but that doesn't make it legal and if caught you have to pay the fine.

Just say you didn't do it on purpose. Seemed to work for Hillary...

tommy1808 · Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:05 pm

Dreadnought wrote:
Just say you didn't do it on purpose. Seemed to work for Hillary...

Mens rea ... let Elle Woods explain it to you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_I_GYgGj ... u.be&t=173

best regards
Thomas

PacificBeach88 · Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:04 am

Dreadnought wrote:

I'm a dual citizen myself, so I've dealt with this all my life. ...........

When I fly to and from the US and Switzerland (my other country of citizenship), I show my US passport at US immigration and my Swiss passport at the other side.

Likewise. I'm a dual passport holder and use it to the easiest convenience while still trying to stay true to the law, or at least the spirit of the law. For me if I can get thru security / passport control 20 minutes faster using a certain passport, I will. Call me lazy.

Dreadnought wrote:
Just say you didn't do it on purpose. Seemed to work for Hillary...

This thread has absolutely, positively, nothing to do with the current political situation in the USA. Why do you and others like you always want to make something so apolitical into some nonsense, partisan, bulls**t? Seriously! I always used to laugh about people using the term Clinton Derangement Syndrome, but I'm starting to think the mental professionals need to put it in the book. Good lord.

Dreadnought · Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:46 am

PacificBeach88 wrote:
This thread has absolutely, positively, nothing to do with the current political situation in the USA. Why do you and others like you always want to make something so apolitical into some nonsense, partisan, bulls**t? Seriously! I always used to laugh about people using the term Clinton Derangement Syndrome, but I'm starting to think the mental professionals need to put it in the book. Good lord.

It's a joke, man (especially since it would never work for we mere mortals). Like this:

Max Q · Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:53 am

Get a US passport, if you have to pay extra to obtain one on short notice its worth it.

In this day and age you do NOT want the hassle.

DocLightning · Mon Jul 11, 2016 5:43 am

7Valleys wrote:
I probably shouldn't be admitting this here but I have entered the US several times on an Australian passport and electronic visa.

Why did you do that? What was your reason? I can't imagine why one would use a foreign passport to enter a country of which they are a citizen.

Dreadnought · Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:24 pm

Arrow wrote:
My wife was born in the US but has been a Canadian resident for 43 years and a Canadian citizen for 38 years. But every time she crosses the border into the US, they ask her about her status, because on her Canadian passport it says she was born in the US. The last guy told her she would have to get a US passport for future crossings.

She's never had a US passport, doesn't want a US passport, and believes she ditched her US citizenship in 1974 when she became a Canadian (at that time, those were the rules). But to avoid the hassles, she's now had to make two trips to the US consulate to apply for a CLN -- Certificate of Lost Nationality. It was all approved more than a month ago -- but they told her it would likely be a year before she gets the piece of paper. Why? Because there is a global stampede of people like my wife seeking to either renounce their existing US citizenship or -- as in her case --get official confirmation of the fact that she did it nearly 40 years ago. It's a mess, and it's all because the IRS has suddenly decided to make life miserable for the approximately 7 million US expats living all over the world. Watch for this to get worse -- they have no intention of backing down.

Until she gets that CLN, there will be no more trips to the US -- the risk of major hassles at the border is just too great --- those guys have unbelievable powers of detention.

My advice to pawsleykat's Mexican friend -- don't leave the country until you've got a valid US passport. Sure, they'll eventually let you in with proof of citizenship, but you might be in the hoosegow for as week while they think about it.

Your wife is lucky if they are accepting that she basically gave up citizenship 40 years ago. Renouncing your citizenship today costs a fortune. Basically the IRS audits you, figures out your net worth, and arbitrarily claims that 30, 40 or 50% of your net worth you accumulated thanks to your US citizenship which you are now ungrateful enough to give up, and the IRS wants it all back - even on people who have not set foot in the US in decades.

Despite this, people are still doing it in droves. Over 5000 renunciations in Q1 2016 alone, a new record. Before FATCA, there used to be only around 250 per quarter.

Flighty · Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:28 pm

This is simple. He is like any other citizen (like me).

If I left the USA without a passport or (even worse) expected to get back in, God help me. I would have to be a huge idiot to expect the USA to recognize my smiling face at the border with no papers.

Your friend could be imprisoned for 3 weeks while they determine his status. Probably won't, but they easily could. This isn't even a good question. Just follow the simple rules. If you need a passport fast, GET ONE.

PPVRA · Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:23 pm

I've read some of the rules around this, and it's not as simple if it's your first passport. You have to mail in the certificate of citizenship as proof and it takes longer than usual, so I don't know if the emergency passport will be an option.

There is a stamp you can get on your foreign passport that would allow you back in, however I am not sure you can get this stamp once you have become a citizen. I think it's from the INS, or perhaps the border people. Have fun scheduling something in short order with those people!

KaiGywer · Fri Jul 15, 2016 1:53 am

PPVRA wrote:
I've read some of the rules around this, and it's not as simple if it's your first passport. You have to mail in the certificate of citizenship as proof and it takes longer than usual, so I don't know if the emergency passport will be an option.

There is a stamp you can get on your foreign passport that would allow you back in, however I am not sure you can get this stamp once you have become a citizen. I think it's from the INS, or perhaps the border people. Have fun scheduling something in short order with those people!

Kind of funny how this thread popped back up, since last time I replied I was a green card holder and now I'm a naturalized citizen. My first US passport application was not hard at all. Filled out the form, went to the county clerk (closest acceptance point to me) who mailed it in along with my naturalization certificate. Couple of weeks later I had a US passport in my hand along with my naturalization paper in a separate mailing. Maybe I got lucky, but it was not a hassle at all.

flyingclrs727 · Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:21 am

Arrow wrote:
Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 27):

She's tried that -- but you can't prove a negative. That's why she needs the CLN. We've heard a few chilling stories from others -- one guy was told by the border guard "you're an American until we say you're not an American." Another woman was told to get a US passport -- and sadly she did. Now she is an American again (after 40-odd years as a Canadian) and has to "renounce" to keep the IRS off her back. She now knows she made a big mistake -- but she thought she had to do what she was told.

Never take legal advise from a government bureaucrat. Talk to a lawyer.

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