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MadameConcorde
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European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:11 am

Hot off the Press!

The E.U. was just awarded the 2012 Nobel Peace Prize.

From The Guardian:

Committee praises 27-nation bloc for rebuilding after the second world war and spreading stability to former communist countries

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...oct/12/nobel-peace-prize-2012-live

My own opinion on this year's award is that I find it awkward that the Nobel Peace Prize can be awarded to an insitution rather than to a person. There are a number of names I can think of who really deserve to receive the prize, so why give it to an institution?

... and then what will the E.U. do with the award money?...

   


Edited to add link to BBC News article:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19921072

[Edited 2012-10-12 03:13:26]
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aloges
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:20 am

Sadly, the peace and prosperity in Europe are often taken for granted. The reality is that they would not exist without some kind of European integration, and hence unification.

The mocking will of course be endless, but I agree with the decision.
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Kiwirob
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:48 am

Seriously what a joke, after the recent clangers Gore, Obama and Sirleaf now they drop this one, I really do think the Peace Prise is no longer valid. It smacks of Norwegian govt interference.
 
baldwin471
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:01 am

Ridiculous. The European Union has brought Greece to it's knees, and it's dragging Spain, Portugal and Italy down too. Why can't we have a Europe where we are all friends, neighbours in trade, but not a sovereign state?

In the words of the all wise Karl Pilkington, "Sick of it"
 
Airstud
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:03 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 2):
I really do think the Peace Prise is no longer valid.

I've felt that way every since they awarded it to Yasser Arafat.

Later, that would make me wonder why it was never awarded to Bin Laden.
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Rara
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:09 am

Quoting MadameConcorde (Thread starter):
My own opinion on this year's award is that I find it awkward that the Nobel Peace Prize can be awarded to an insitution rather than to a person.

Awkward or not, it has been given to an organization many times before. Sometimes it's given to an organization along with a person (like Kofi Annan and the United Nations), sometimes just to the organization (like the Red Cross).

Quoting MadameConcorde (Thread starter):
... and then what will the E.U. do with the award money?...

It's not so much about the award money, more about the recognition.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 2):
It smacks of Norwegian govt interference.

Since the Norwegian parliament appoints both the government and the members of the Nobel Committee, the connection is obvious.
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aloges
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:11 am

Quoting Airstud (Reply 4):
Later, that would make me wonder why it was never awarded to Bin Laden.

Speaking of invalid decisions and comments...   
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MadameConcorde
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:29 am

Quoting Rara (Reply 5):
sometimes just to the organization (like the Red Cross).

The Red Cross and Médecins Sans Frontières do a lot of good work. They are not political, they are there to save human lives without discrimination, in case of conflict, war, natural/human caused disasters.

They are deserving of these prizes. Awarding them to the U.N. and E.U. is a totally different story. What have the E.U. and U.N. for the better-ing of humanity? I don't see much.

Look at the E.U. Brussels, Strasbourg and Luxembourg parliaments and administrations are costing a fortune to all the member nations, all these white collar workers are getting paid lots mostly for do-nothing jobs (ex: the European Commission in Luxembourg) and the results are catastrophic.

As someone said before, look at Greece and Spain. They were much better off before they joined the E.U. than after. Aso I remember England before they came up with V.A.T. We all used to go do our shopping in London to buy high quality products (mostly clothing) at much cheaper prices than we could get in Continental Europe. That time has long ended. I am not convinced that the U.K. has gained from the E.U.

and why have they extended to allt these countries that could not respect all the criteria defined by "European Law", France included, with deficits much higher than what was imposed by the E.U.? Monstrous deficits for some of fthem... why are these countries still members of the organisation? Why should they be forced to stay in the E.U.?

I think the whole thing is a rip-off.

The idea of the old Common Market with 6 member countries worked. The E.U. is a white elephant that does not work at all (lookat the Euro) and it will get worse with time. We can see it in the news every day and there's more of the same (or worse) to come ahead.

This is why I think awarding the Nobel Peace Prize to the European Union is a joke. The thing just does not work. There are other more worthy institutions and people to give such prizes to than the E.U.

Recognizing the Common Market and its creator Jean Monnet I will definitely say yes. It reunited Europe after WWII and was a very good thing.

With way too many member countries that cannot hold to the defined criteria, the E.U. only seems to be making things worse while costing us fortunes. Europe could work very well without the E.U.
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PanHAM
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:34 am

Quoting Airstud (Reply 4):
I've felt that way every since they awarded it to Yasser Arafat.

and disgracing Shimon Perez as a fig leaf at the same time......

There are some people deserving the Nobel peace price much more than others, but such decision make it easy for them to be happy that the committee never had the guts nor the decency to give the price to them

One prime contender is Helmut Kohl who made the German re-unification possible by convincing the right people at the right time to agree with the decision and that was not easy with Mrs. T. . With the re-unificiation Kohl made it possible to disband the complete, highly armed and offensive East German Volksarmee plus make the Red Army retreat..

If that alone does not deserve a Nobel Peace price, what does?

No one should take that committee serious.

[Edited 2012-10-12 04:35:34]
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Kiwirob
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:35 am

Quoting baldwin471 (Reply 3):
The European Union has brought Greece to it's knees

I think you'll find the Greeks did it to themselves by cheating the tax system and voting in govts who were too free and easy with social welfare. Which is the same problem the Spanish, Portugese and Italians have.
 
Rara
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:59 am

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 7):
We all used to go do our shopping in London to buy high quality products (mostly clothing) at much cheaper prices than we could get in Continental Europe. That time has long ended.

We used to have huge standing armies and regularly started devastating wars in Europe. That time has long ended.


Whatever one may think about the current performance of EU institutions, the idea to bring economic integration and political partnership to Europe is a noble one and has contributed to the longest period of peace that we ever had. That's deserving of a Nobel Prize. Since there's no person or institution that embodies this idea as much as the European Union, the prize goes to the European Union. End of story.
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windy95
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:07 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Thread starter):
Committee praises 27-nation bloc for rebuilding after the second world war and spreading stability to former communist countries

What a joke this is...Does anyone pay attention to this peace prize anymore? Would that not be NATO that did much of this? I guess the US and Canada had nothing to do with rebuilding after WWII or helping bring down communism and bringing stability to the Eastern Countries. Arafat, Gore, Obama and now this...
 
PanHAM
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:23 pm

Quoting windy95 (Reply 11):
Would that not be NATO that did much of this? I guess the US and Canada had nothing to do with rebuilding after WWII or helping bring down communism and bringing stability to the Eastern Countries. .

Of course you are right. NATO has kept and brought peace and stability in and to Europe since 63 years now. Add the 4 years after WWII and that makes it 67 years of continued peace and prosperity in Europe except the Balkan former Yugoslav Reüpublics and without NATO the current improvements would not be.

Without NATO this development would not have been possible. Of course do the USA and Canada play a big role but these basic facts are not popular with the political left.

OK, there could have been worse institutions than the European Union to win he price. If NATO would be next year's winner the committee would make good for a couple of wrong decisions in the recent past.
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MadameConcorde
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:24 pm

Quoting windy95 (Reply 11):
Arafat, Gore, Obama and now this...

I thought it was going to be Julian Assange and his new friend Stefani Joanne Angelina Germanotta

  
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:32 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 1):
Sadly, the peace and prosperity in Europe are often taken for granted. The reality is that they would not exist without some kind of European integration, and hence unification.

I agree with you. For centuries, Europe was a battlefield, torn up by the various powers.

"It is not tolerable, it is not possible, that from so much death, so much sacrifice and ruin, so much heroism, a greater and better humanity shall not emerge." (Charles de Gaulle)

But still the prize should be handed to individuals who have made the earth better place to live in. Obama didn't close Guantanamo, neither did he rebuild Iraq or Afghanistan. I can't fight the feeling that he was awarded Nobel Peace Prize because GWB would have earned the Nobel War Prize.

Sadly, the Peace Prize is open for politics... Henry Kissinger, Le Duc Tho, and the list goes on... even Mother Teresa is not free from criticism.


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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:38 pm

Quoting baldwin471 (Reply 3):
Ridiculous. The European Union has brought Greece to it's knees

In fairness the corruption of Greek governments have brought the country to its knees. The everyday Greek people have really suffered but sadly some stupid and ignorant people in certain EU countries
( citizens,media,politicans) have labeled the Greek citizens as lazy and other untruths. So I guess you could say the EU is not a harmonious place at all. There is a huge North south divide that exists.

Yes we have had no major wars over the last number of decades but then neither have lots of other countries.

Quoting baldwin471 (Reply 3):
Why can't we have a Europe where we are all friends, neighbours in trade, but not a sovereign state?

That I can agree on totally. Co operation not domination. One thing I can thank the EU and the Euro zone for is that the UK will now never go into the single currency and for that I'm truly thankful.

This prize should have gone to another organisation that deserves it more. The EU shouldnt be getting prizes for doing what it is supposed to be doing . I think that organisations like charities who fight against all odds to make a difference and often under funded should get these things.
 
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:44 pm

Seems a bit of a lazy decision on the part of the committee to me.

"Oh let's just give it to the EU this year and go back to golfing and cocktail parties."
 
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:51 pm

Quoting baldwin471 (Reply 3):
Ridiculous. The European Union has brought Greece to it's knees, and it's dragging Spain, Portugal and Italy down too.

It should be noted that these countries have enjoyed the benefits of membership in the Euro for many years now, and have been net recipients of EU funding, and none are seriously desiring to leave the Euro because that would be worse than staying in.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 11):
Would that not be NATO that did much of this? I guess the US and Canada had nothing to do with rebuilding after WWII or helping bring down communism and bringing stability to the Eastern Countries.

I hope you can allow for the possibility that both NATO and the EU have been essential.
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Quokkas
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:51 pm

Quoting windy95 (Reply 11):
I guess the US and Canada had nothing to do with rebuilding after WWII

In 1953 the Nobel Peace Prize was awarded to George Catlett Marshall for his work on The European Recovery Program, as it was formally known, or more commonly known as the Marshall Plan.

The award of the prize to Arafat was not the first time an award was made to a terrorist. It was jointly awarded to one in 1978. A man who started his career demanding money with menaces, involvement in insurance scams and personally ordering the bombing of the King David Hotel, Menachim Begin.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 14):
Obama didn't close Guantanamo,

In Obama's case, awarding the prize was premature. Sworn in on January 20, 2009 and the prize announced barely nine months later, he hadn't actually done much other than win an election at that stage despite the claimed "for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples".
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windy95
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:25 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 17):
I hope you can allow for the possibility that both NATO and the EU have been essential.

Not really. Without the heavy lifting form NATO which was dominated by the US and the UK for many years there would of been no EU. The EU itself did not keet the peace. The EU had very little to do with it over the time that the prize is given for. The American taxpayer along with the UK and Canada picked up most of the resulting cost.


Also an amazing transformation of the German society played a large part in the future peace Europe. If ithe prize was given to them for that feat alone going from a warlike nation to what it is today then I would think people could appreciate that. But giving it to the EU and not giving the US and Canada any recognition is dishonest and disingenuous.
 
aloges
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:43 pm

Some of the posts in this thread are ridiculous. No person or organisation in this world has ever been perfect, but some have done much more good and much less harm than others. It's sad and almost infuriating to see how only imperfections and shortcomings make it into the news and thus get to form the public opinion.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 7):
What have the E.U. and U.N. for the better-ing of humanity? I don't see much.

Are you joking?
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Quokkas
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:56 pm

Quoting windy95 (Reply 19):
But giving it to the EU and not giving the US and Canada any recognition is dishonest and disingenuous.

If you read or listen to the speech made it was in recognition of "the contribution of" and "part played by". The statement did not claim that the EU is solely responsible. As I have pointed out above, there has already been an award made in recognition of the very important part played by the Marshall Plan in European post-war recovery.

It's only four years since the current US President was awarded the prize. Oddly enough, many US citizens criticize that decision. Another US President awarded the prize for "for his decades of untiring effort to find peaceful solutions to international conflicts, to advance democracy and human rights, and to promote economic and social development," was Jimmy Carter. So I think it is fair to say that the US has been recognised for its valuable contributions to democracy and human rights.

[Edited 2012-10-12 07:00:01]
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MadameConcorde
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:58 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 20):
Are you joking?

Go ask the homeless what they think. Go ask the thousands without jobs. Go ask the Greeks.

Well, VonRumpuy will be in his glory accepting the prize.

Rhe lunatics have taken over the asylum!

  
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aloges
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:06 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 22):
Go ask the homeless what they think. Go ask the thousands without jobs.

Weird... if the EU is to blame for all those problems, how come they all exist in rich countries that aren't a part of it? The word "clochard" wasn't invented in 1958 either.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 22):
Go ask the Greeks.

Sure, for instance I'll ask them how they liked the time between 1967 and 1974.
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:07 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 1):
Sadly, the peace and prosperity in Europe are often taken for granted. The reality is that they would not exist without some kind of European integration, and hence unification.
Quoting Rara (Reply 10):
Whatever one may think about the current performance of EU institutions, the idea to bring economic integration and political partnership to Europe is a noble one and has contributed to the longest period of peace that we ever had. That's deserving of a Nobel Prize.

  

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sabenapilot
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:15 pm

Any person, organisation or institution that successfully manages to prevent yet another brutal war within borders where people have been crushing eachother's sculls for the past centuries, is most certainly entitled to win the Nobel Peace Price. I'd say it's a massive achievement overlooked for way too long already and one that even the most ardent eurosceptic simply can not refute.

The ridiculous and overly naive preference of all too many flagwaving nationalists to favour a set of competing nation states keeping eachother in balance has been at the basis of all wars that have engulfed the old continent for as long as its history is documented, so like it or not: the EU seems to be pretty good at preserving peace indeed.

With the above in mind, I'd say: congratulations to the EU!

I hope it will continue to be as successful as it has been over the past 60 years in future too, because the idea of ever more European integration is the only thing standing in between the longlasting peace we know today and guaranteed outright war on our continent in future.

[Edited 2012-10-12 07:23:33]
 
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:47 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 22):
Go ask the homeless what they think. Go ask the thousands without jobs.

That would perhaps be a meaningful response had the European Union been awarded the prize in Economic Sciences.

Quoting aloges (Reply 23):
Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 22):
Go ask the Greeks.

Sure, for instance I'll ask them how they liked the time between 1967 and 1974.

  
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MadameConcorde
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:14 pm

Quoting sabenapilot (Reply 25):
more European integration is the only thing standing in between the longlasting peace we know today and guaranteed outright war on our continent in future.

While at the same time the EU are some of the biggest weapons/arms manufacturers and sellers on the planet.

The SIPRI Top 100 arms-producing and military services companies in the world excluding China, 2010
Figures for arms sales, total sales and profit are in US$ m.Click heading to sort table. Download this data

BAE Systems UK
EADS Trans-European
Finmeccanica Italy
Thales France
Safran France
Rolls-Royce UK
MBDA (BAE Systems, UK/EADS, trans-European/Finmeccanica, Italy) Trans-European
DCNS France
Eurocopter Group (EADS, trans-European) France
AgustaWestland (Finmeccanica) Italy
Saab Sweden
Babcock International Group UK
Rheinmetall Germany
EADS Astrium (EADS, trans-European) France
Cobham UK
CEA France
MBDA France (MBDA, trans-European) France
Serco UK
Navantia Spain
Alenia Aeronautica (Finmeccanica) Italy

and many more.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...ar/02/arms-sales-top-100-producers

The Peace Prize now represents fraud and thus is no longer credible because the people who run it are nut jobs as proven by some of their recent awards.

  
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aloges
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:39 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 27):
While at the same time the EU are some of the biggest weapons/arms manufacturers and sellers on the planet.

They are in the EU, they are not the EU. That's a difference as big as the continent itself.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 27):
The Peace Prize now represents fraud and thus is no longer credible because the people who run it are nut jobs as proven by some of their recent awards.

At long last, we have an authoritative description of the prize. Finally!   
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:49 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 27):
The Peace Prize now represents fraud and thus is no longer credible because the people who run it are nut jobs as proven by some of their recent awards.

Do you think making such a statement does anything positive for your credibility?   
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:03 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 29):
Do you think making such a statement does anything positive for your credibility?

Are we no longer allowed to have different opinions and views?
Should we all be out on the streets marching in line and chanting "Hail the E.U."?

I have been through all these years and I think the 6 countries Common Market was good enough.
There was no need to add to it. Neither did we need to add the Euro to the package.

The E.U. has become a real mess and it's only getting worse.
Some of the countries will leave the Union one after the other and create a Euro break-up.
Just wait. We haven' t seen it all yet.

 Wow!

[Edited 2012-10-12 10:04:37]
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:04 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Thread starter):
Committee praises 27-nation bloc for rebuilding after the second world war and spreading stability to former communist countries

That's a reach, but whatever. It's not that big of a deal.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Thread starter):
and then what will the E.U. do with the award money?

They have several members that have fallen on (largely self inflicted) hard times.

Quoting baldwin471 (Reply 3):
The European Union has brought Greece to it's knees, and it's dragging Spain, Portugal and Italy down too.

Those countries brought themselves down, the EU allows it to have a larger cascade effect on other members and makes it harder for the debt ridden countries to recover since they can't really set monetary policy.

Quoting baldwin471 (Reply 3):
Why can't we have a Europe where we are all friends, neighbours in trade, but not a sovereign state?

I don't get it either. I'm not European so what I think doesn't really count, but if I were European I'd not be a fan of the EU. I'd be really wary of any measure that requires ceding some sovereignty.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 27):
While at the same time the EU are some of the biggest weapons/arms manufacturers and sellers on the planet.

Do you mean to imply that manufacturing and selling such items is a bad thing? Do you think that they aren't paying people well to do those jobs, and that maybe defense is a vital government function? You've wrapped up a lot of ignorance in one sentence.

Quoting aloges (Reply 28):
They are in the EU, they are not the EU. That's a difference as big as the continent itself.

  

Quoting Revelation (Reply 29):
Do you think making such a statement does anything positive for your credibility?

There really wasn't any to start with.
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aloges
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:25 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 30):
Are we no longer allowed to have different opinions and views?

'course we are. For instance, you are "allowed" the opinion that a statement like this:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 30):
Should we all be out on the streets marching in line and chanting "Hail the E.U."?

can be part of an actual discussion while others, including myself, are "allowed" the opinion that it is completely and utterly silly.
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:31 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 30):
Are we no longer allowed to have different opinions and views?

You certainly are, and we are allowed to criticize them, especially when they are fatuous.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 30):
Should we all be out on the streets marching in line and chanting "Hail the E.U."?

How do you leap from the Nobel Prize being awarded to the EU to this?

Does it surprise you that such statements reduce your credibility?

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 30):
I have been through all these years and I think the 6 countries Common Market was good enough.
There was no need to add to it. Neither did we need to add the Euro to the package.

At least this is a level headed opinion, one that one can discuss sensibly.

I think the trade and currency aspects of the EU were/are worthy attempts, with obvious shortcomings. Unfortunately it's hard to have the good without the bad.

The political and foreign policy aspects seem to me to be a step too far and IMHO are just not workable without sacrificing the sovereignty that the individual EU nations want to keep.

IMHO the EU Parliament is a bloated mess and a haven for next-to-useless bureaucratic fat cats. I can't for the life of me figure out who thought it'd be a good idea to create another huge and expensive bureaucracy that is largely powerless.
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:00 pm

I haven't really cared about the Nobel Prize as it does seem political at times. And I have nothing against the EU, I think they have many good ideas and all...

that being said, I think this decision is kinda weak. Yes, no institution is perfect but I think there are too many decisions that weren't good enough while there are plenty of great individuals that weren't recognized.

But whatever, not my organization. Congrats EU. Live up to the title, fix the problems you have
 
aloges
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:09 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 33):
I can't for the life of me figure out who thought it'd be a good idea to create another huge and expensive bureaucracy that is largely powerless.

Are you, per chance, familiar with this German proverb: "Hast du einen Opa, schick ihn nach Europa!" which translates to "If you have a grandpa, send him to Europ(a)!" It illustrates brilliantly how the EU became, among many other things, a holding track for old, unwanted, incompetent and aspirational politicians. Silvana Koch-Mehrin and Günther Oettinger are prominent examples.

It doubles very nicely as a scapegoat for unpopular, but necessary decisions that no national politician wants to take or even discuss. Delegate that specific task to the EU, tell "your" MEPs what the "correct" decision is and hey presto, it's done and you've had nothing to do with it.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
777way
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:16 pm

Quoting johnboy (Reply 16):
Seems a bit of a lazy decision on the part of the committee to me.

"Oh let's just give it to the EU this year and go back to golfing and cocktail parties."

Thats hilarious and so well said.
 
Kiwirob
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:17 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 22):

Go ask the homeless what they think. Go ask the thousands without jobs. Go ask the Greeks.

The Greeks did it to themselves the EU had nothing to do with it. There were millions without jobs before the EU, pretty sure there were homeless aswell  
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 31):
I don't get it either. I'm not European so what I think doesn't really count, but if I were European I'd not be a fan of the EU. I'd be really wary of any measure that requires ceding some sovereignty.

Several state ceded sovereignty to join the US, there are also states within the US who need more assistance than other states, so what's the difference. Personally I think the way forward is more integration and turn the EU into the United States of Europe, run a federal system with each country being a state. I haven't worked out where the Federal Capitol would be, but I wouldn't want it in Germany or France.
 
ozglobal
Posts: 2597
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:18 pm

Quoting baldwin471 (Reply 3):
The European Union has brought Greece to it's knees, and it's dragging Spain, Portugal and Italy down too.

   Brought Greece to it's knees???? No, that would be their corruption, defrauding the EU to get entry to the Eurozone, lying repeatedly, not collecting taxes on the crooked Greek rich and running a soviet style public sector. Spain??? That would be rampant unfocused investment in a construction bubble and over spending in the public sector; similar stories in Italy and Portugal. Then you have the hug bail outs many of countries had to make with tax payer mont due to the unregulated technically not criminal financial iniquities of major banks, very notably in the City in the UK.

Quoting baldwin471 (Reply 3):
In the words of the all wise Karl Pilkington, "Sick of it"

If anyone is "sick" of anything, then I am sick of fact-less anti-Euro British rhetoric.

[Edited 2012-10-12 11:21:41]
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
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Revelation
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:37 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 35):

Are you, per chance, familiar with this German proverb: "Hast du einen Opa, schick ihn nach Europa!" which translates to "If you have a grandpa, send him to Europ(a)!" It illustrates brilliantly how the EU became, among many other things, a holding track for old, unwanted, incompetent and aspirational politicians.

LOL!

EU Parliament = Retirement Home for Aging Politicians!

It'd be a lot cheaper to pack them off to villas on some sunny coastline somewhere, no?

Quoting aloges (Reply 35):

It doubles very nicely as a scapegoat for unpopular, but necessary decisions that no national politician wants to take or even discuss. Delegate that specific task to the EU, tell "your" MEPs what the "correct" decision is and hey presto, it's done and you've had nothing to do with it.

Hmm, that's interesting.

I wonder what problems we in the US could pawn off to such an institution?
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
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Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
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BMI727
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:46 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 37):
Several state ceded sovereignty to join the US, there are also states within the US who need more assistance than other states, so what's the difference.

Two hundred years trying to get it right, and many people would argue that it isn't right now. Furthermore, I'd say that the diversity in Europe is greater than in America. The cultural differences between a Texan and an Angeleno are far less than the difference between a Greek and a Brit.

Also, you have to remember that a lot of America never dealt with losing sovereignty, per se. The original thirteen colonies all had their own identities and liked being independent for a while before forming the USA. And then there's Texas, that went from being Mexico to being its own country to being part of the US.

For the most part, all of the states were not really settled or developed to a high degree when they joined the US. Places went from being a US territory to being a state but at no point during that progression were they really able to stand on their own (Hawaii would probably be an exception) and that isn't the case with European countries.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
faddypainter
Posts: 114
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:55 pm

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 38):
I am sick of fact-less anti-Euro British rhetoric.

Yes, we all know anti-EU rhetoric is a purely British phenomena. I absolutely guarantee you could would never hear of an iota of dissent from any other European nation.  

But thanks for the fact-less generalisation.

You know, there are some Brits such as myself who recognise the large benefits of the EU, such as the common labour market, open-skies etc.

If that doesn't fit into your view of what a "Brit" should be, I humbly apologise and I'll be on my way to the nearest UKIP rally as soon as I've finished my tea, stopping on the way to pick up my Daily Mail and/or Sun.
 
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Revelation
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:24 pm

Quoting FaDDyPainTER (Reply 41):
If that doesn't fit into your view of what a "Brit" should be, I humbly apologise and I'll be on my way to the nearest UKIP rally as soon as I've finished my tea, stopping on the way to pick up my Daily Mail and/or Sun.

Don't forget to pick up some greasy fish and chips wrapped in yesterday's Mail or Sun on your way!  

Damn, that sounds tasty, too bad we don't have any genuine fish and chips joints around here!  

Pass the vinegar, will you?
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
aloges
Posts: 14807
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:55 pm

Quoting FaDDyPainTER (Reply 41):
If that doesn't fit into your view of what a "Brit" should be, I humbly apologise and I'll be on my way to the nearest UKIP rally as soon as I've finished my tea, stopping on the way to pick up my Daily Mail and/or Sun.

Oh, I must...

Quote:
You see, Mr. Jonathan Foreigner has this ridiculously outdated view of what Britain is. He thinks we all live in Anne Hathaway's cottage and then go out to Ye Olde Tea Rooms where we eat some Kendal mint cake. And then maybe we'll go out and find a red phone box and ring up some Beefeaters at the Tower of London to see if we can have our bowler hats back. It's rubbish!
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
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Revelation
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:06 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 43):
go out to Ye Olde Tea Rooms

Surely it should be "take a double decker bus to Ye Olde Tea Rooms"?

Or a rusting low-slung British sportscar with a wood floor and crap Lucas electric circuits?
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
lewis
Posts: 3586
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:19 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 23):

Sure, for instance I'll ask them how they liked the time between 1967 and 1974.

I guess I never realized that the dictatorship fell because of the EU.... You learn something new every day!  
 
aloges
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:03 am

Quoting lewis (Reply 45):
I guess I never realized that the dictatorship fell because of the EU.... You learn something new every day!

You do indeed, I for instance have just learned that I made that claim. Interesting world, this...   
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
lewis
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:12 am

Quoting aloges (Reply 46):
You do indeed, I for instance have just learned that I made that claim. Interesting world, this...

Ok....

Quoting aloges (Reply 20):
Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 7):
What have the E.U. and U.N. for the better-ing of humanity? I don't see much.

Are you joking?
Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 22):

Go ask the homeless what they think. Go ask the thousands without jobs. Go ask the Greeks.
Quoting aloges (Reply 23):
Sure, for instance I'll ask them how they liked the time between 1967 and 1974.

So remind me again, what did the EU or the UN have to do with the fall of the military junta in Greece?
 
prebennorholm
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:10 am

Quoting lewis (Reply 47):
So remind me again, what did the EU or the UN have to do with the fall of the military junta in Greece?

The EU did not turn over the junta by force.

But the EU and other countries showed that to be a prosperous country with happy people you had to be a democracy. And the EU and others missed no chance to tell exactly that to all Greek people who wanted to listen.

Some people would call that doing the same thing in a more peaceful way.

Sadly democracy doesn't guarantee prosperity. The voters also must elect leaders into government who master basic math, at least plus and minus. That's next step on the ladder.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
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OA260
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RE: European Uninon Wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize

Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:48 am

Quoting lewis (Reply 45):
Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 48):

Interesting to see who supported it also but I digress  

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