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Bongodog1964
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:29 pm

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 12):
I am not quite sure why a sales tax for an online purchase should be paid at the recipient's shipping address, instead of the retailer's HQ or warehouse of origin

The problem comes when states offer highly advantageous tax rates for businesses to relocate. You then run the risk of having a huge on line retailer domiciled in a small state, in order to take advantage of the low tax rate. The host state is very happy, but not the states losing out on revenue.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 18):
Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 15):
Tax collected should be from the location where the item was bought, not shipped to.

See above.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 25):
No, it should not. It matters where the goods either 1) Are shipped from or.... 2) The state where the HQ is collecting the money. The sales taxes, IMO, should go to the State where the company has their HQ base to support THAT State's economy.

We have a similar situation developing here in the UK, and Europe. Amazon Europe are officially domiciled in Luxembourg, the smallest fully functioning EU state, where they have less than 500 staff. Meanwhile the vast majority of customers are in Germany, the UK and France, as are the distribution warehouses with thousands of staff and millions of pounds of stock. Its an absoloutely blatant example of tax evasion. Though EU laws insist that sales taxes are paid according to the rate at the destination, all profits are taxed at the very low Luxembourg rate.

These sort of practices have always been around, but the internet age makes them so much easier to carry out.

This thread is about online retailers seeking out the best tax deals from the individual US states, in a way the US economy is still getting the revenue somewhere. Just bear in mind that the next step is to take the computer operation offshore to the carribbean or similar, then the US treasury will receive nothing. Amazon etc know how to do it as they have tested it out in Europe.
 
darthluke12694
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:15 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 43):
In my experience, I buy online because I often have no choice. If I see a Led Zeppelin 8track tape selling on ebay for $5, I have no choice but to buy from that seller. It's not like I can drive down to Target and buy one. The taxes on that tape was paid when it was new back in 1971. I bought my 1977 Lincoln Town Car on ebay. I had no choice because it was the exact model and color I was looking for. It's not like I could go to the nearest Lincoln / Mercury dealer and order a 1977 model. The taxes was paid when the car was new and taxes continue to come in annually with yearly registration fees.
No need for an Internet tax. Don't give our out of control government any new ideas.

I understand. I've done that on eBay. However, I've never had to pay the tax and I shouldn't have to because tax was already paid when the item was bought new.

I have seen on eBay used items required you pay sales tax if you live in that state they were located in. I think that is wrong because sales tax has already be paid on it. Maybe since it is an actual business selling it, they are required to pay sales tax. But I still think it is wrong paying sales tax on second hand or used items.
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:18 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 49):
Had no choice in terms of where to buy it, genius.

Not everyone sells clunkers on the net, you might have found one in a breakers yard, under a tarp in someones back yard or in a barn. You always have a choice.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:30 pm

Back in 2010 when I visited my mother, I bought a lot of stuff in Oregon that totaled to about $200. Brought it back to Colorado and never paid the Colorado sales tax on it, there is really no need to because I bought it in Oregon, not Colorado. The beauty of no sales tax in Oregon is just that: no sales tax. It makes things cheaper and easier to get.

Also, when one goes out to eat at a restaurant in Portland, OR.... how do you assess the taxes for a out of State visitor?? LOL!

Some of you may think I now owe Colorado for the stuff I bought, but I disagree. My logic still stands no matter how screwed up it may sound: Sales tax should be collected at the point of origin for THAT economy, not the destination.
 
Superfly
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:12 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 53):
Some of you may think I now owe Colorado for the stuff I bought

You don't owe Colorado jack!

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 53):
Sales tax should be collected at the point of origin for THAT economy,

  

Quoting darthluke12694 (Reply 51):
I have seen on eBay used items required you pay sales tax if you live in that state they were located in.

Wow! Luckily I haven't seen that.
 
windy95
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:18 pm

No...Unless we changed the Tax code to the "Fair Tax" and made everything a straight sales consumption tax. Other wise keep their money grubbing hand's off e commerce.
 
max999
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:41 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 25):
No, it should not. It matters where the goods either 1) Are shipped from or.... 2) The state where the HQ is collecting the money. The sales taxes, IMO, should go to the State where the company has their HQ base to support THAT State's economy.

In the case of Amazon.com, I wouldn't want to be taxed by the company's HQ. Washington state has no income tax so in order to make up the revenue, Seattle has one of the higest sales tax rates in the country (9.5%)! I could see Amazon really hurting if they put a 9.5% tax on every transaction.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:43 pm

Quoting max999 (Reply 56):
Washington state has no income tax

That is about to change, or so I'm told. Who knows. Washington State is one of the very few States that don't have income tax.

But I now live in Colorado, and we have income tax. Yet, the State Sales Taxes are still high! (8.9%, IIRC).
 
max999
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:48 pm

Please ignore...delete please.

[Edited 2013-01-16 12:34:46]
 
nws2002
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:28 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 53):
Also, when one goes out to eat at a restaurant in Portland, OR.... how do you assess the taxes for a out of State visitor?? LOL!

In that case you wouldn't owe a use tax because the product (a meal) was consumed in Oregon.
 
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GuitrThree
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:04 pm

Quoting max999 (Reply 56):
I could see Amazon really hurting if they put a 9.5% tax on every transaction.

Well then they should move. Simple as that. This is where states can be competitive and drive industries (jobs) to their state. Lower the tax rate, online companies flock to you, you get all kinds of companies, jobs, etc flowing in. THAT IS HOW CAPITALISM is played by states. If Washington State wants to keep Amazon, they would lower the sales tax rate, a boom for all residents of the state. See how that works?
 
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Tugger
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:08 pm

My short answer is "yes". How else will communities be able to keep up the roads etc required to get the goods to the recipient?
In general I believe the online retail should have as level a playing field as the other vendors in the community.

Tugg
 
Fabo
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:34 am

Quoting tugger (Reply 61):
How else will communities be able to keep up the roads etc required to get the goods to the recipient?

Tax the shipping companies for road tax? Out here, any vehicle over 3,5 tonnes (minus reasonable exceptions such as firetrucks etc.) pays a tax on every km of highway used, this money goes to maintenance.
 
LFutia
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:57 am

Quoting max999 (Reply 56):
Seattle has one of the higest sales tax rates in the country (9.5%)! I could see Amazon really hurting if they put a 9.5% tax on every transaction.

Here in Illinois, my county -- Cook County once had the HIGHEST sales tax in the nation stating at 10,25% in the City of Chicago. as of now, suburbs in Cook County range from 9% to 9,25% and the city now at 9,25%.

We are taxed on everything really. Clothes - 9% Soda - 9% prescriptions and food items - 2,25% Luckily for me big ticket items, I go to the next county north of me Lake County and pay 7,5%. Everywhere else in Illinois has a much lower sales tax. Quite sad really.

I dont think Amazon.com taxes us just yet. But im sure it is coming as this state is so broke.

Leo/ORD
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:00 am

Quoting nws2002 (Reply 59):
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 53):
Also, when one goes out to eat at a restaurant in Portland, OR.... how do you assess the taxes for a out of State visitor?? LOL!

In that case you wouldn't owe a use tax because the product (a meal) was consumed in Oregon.

That's exactly my point! The taxes should be assessed in the State of the point of origin regardless of what the product was.
 
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Tugger
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:03 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 64):
That's exactly my point! The taxes should be assessed in the State of the point of origin regardless of what the product was.

And those taxes goes to the state of the sale? I might just be able to support that as it would decrease the "vampire" aspect where states may create low tax incentives to lure companies while using sales from elsewhere to support a retailer and then benefit from the taxes form consumers of other states.

Remember they are called "sales taxes" for a reason, so they should go to the point of the sale, where the region has created a vibrant enough economy that the citizens there can afford the products being sold. You really should reward those great areas that create these great consumers, shouldn't you?

Tugg
 
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zippyjet
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:44 am

Quoting tugger (Reply 61):

Legalize prostitution. This way when she climaxes the state will have an ample wads of cash (fumds) to shoot their load for other programs.
 
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Tugger
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:50 am

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 66):
Legalize prostitution.

Agreed, it should be legalized and regulated. Of course if it comes via an online transaction, which sates gets the tax? The state where the storefront is located or where the act takes place? Hmm?

Tugg
 
Superfly
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:09 am

Quoting tugger (Reply 67):
and regulated


Why?

San Francisco tried that and the hookers all got fat and no one wanted to hire them anymore.
I can't think of any new laws that would be required if prostitution were legalized. There are already laws on the books against rape and involving minors, therefore I see no need for any new laws.

Quoting tugger (Reply 67):
The state where the storefront is located or where the act takes place? Hmm?


You're focusing too much on Amazon. Many sellers online are private sellers. It's basically a yard sale online. Re-read my earlier post.
Should we send the taxman to every yard sale?
Should we encourage private citizens to rat-out their neighbor for selling a treadmill or old pair of speakers at a cheap price?
New York has just passed a law to encourage people to rat-out their neighbors for private property.....
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:54 am

I purchase stuff on Amazon, it is much cheaper than buying stuff locally in New Zealand and of course being an international purchase it is VAT exempt, I do not mind paying the local tax if I am over the tax exempt value either, it still means I save money over what the local businesses charge (in a small market like NZ they mark up far more than a mass market like USA/EU)

I also choose to buy from other states when I am getting stuff delivered in USA (eg: buying in NYC having delivered in LAX)
Personally I think online shopping should be exempt from orders interstate
 
Fabo
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:51 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 68):
Many sellers online are private sellers. It's basically a yard sale online. Re-read my earlier post.

I thought it was pretty obvious that private sale of used items should not be taxed?
 
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Tugger
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:49 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 68):
Why?

Health.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 68):
You're focusing too much on Amazon.

I haven't said one word about Amazon or any online retailer. However, as you are noting, if we do look at and separate the two types of business then I would not be objectionable to two distinct category's of online retailers: Large and Small. The bulk of online sales dollars are done through large online retailers, and then there are the home operation/small businesses that fill in all the niche sales. These small business are less likely to move to a state to take advantage of certain tax elements. These small business tend to live where most people live and want to live.

My question still stands though: Why should one state reap the sales tax benefits of another state that creates a good consumer base? The state that has a good and vibrant consumer population deserves to benefit from their citizens just as the citizens have benefited from the state (or they wouldn't live there).

Tugg
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:56 pm

Quoting tugger (Reply 65):
And those taxes goes to the state of the sale?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.... Taxes to either the Sate it was shipped from or taxes to the State that said company is HQ'd in. It gets the States to compete for business, and the customer wins.

Taxes at the destination address is just plain stupid. It makes no sense.
 
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Tugger
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:22 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 72):

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.... Taxes to either the Sate it was shipped from or taxes to the State that said company is HQ'd in. It gets the States to compete for business, and the customer wins.

Taxes at the destination address is just plain stupid. It makes no sense.

So you do not think that states that create a good and desirable living location for their citizens and create a good consumer base deserve anything for that? You think that other states deserve the tax money of another states residents?

Why do you support that? And why would you support impacting states that do not have income taxes and instead rely on sales and other revenue sources?

Tugg

[Edited 2013-01-17 09:25:36]
 
max999
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:00 pm

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 60):
Well then they should move. Simple as that. This is where states can be competitive and drive industries (jobs) to their state. Lower the tax rate, online companies flock to you, you get all kinds of companies, jobs, etc flowing in. THAT IS HOW CAPITALISM is played by states. If Washington State wants to keep Amazon, they would lower the sales tax rate, a boom for all residents of the state. See how that works?

That's an overly simplistic, black & white answer to where businesses locate themselves. If we extend your logic that businesses only care about low taxes, then all our jobs would be someplace with near 0 taxes...like the Cayman Islands.

The reality is that businesses consider a whole host of factors when putting down offices and factories. I think one huge factor is the labor pool. Can I get a simliar labor pool with the talent I need in Seattle, low cost Texas, or even lower cost China? Consider the fact that some of America's most dynamic and innovative companies (Apple and Google) have the vast majority of their US operations based in the Bay Area, which has one of the highest cost of living and tax rates in the country. The Bay Area has the type of talent those companies need to thrive and the talent is harder to find elsewhere. Or New York City has the largest number of corporate HQs in the US over any other city by far...even though NYC has the highest tax burden in this country. That's because NYC has the right educated labor pool, support services, international connections, etc that make it attractive to corporate HQs.

Yes, businesses do like low cost, but there are so many other factors to how they locate jobs. Low taxes are not a panacea to all that's wrong in our economy.

[Edited 2013-01-17 11:24:03]
 
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Tugger
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:24 pm

By the way I forgot to address this:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 72):
Taxes at the destination address is just plain stupid. It makes no sense.

Consumers, state citizens, are actually required by law to pay the in state sales taxes for any product they buy and have transported to their state (home). The most commonly known one of these is cars, you may buy it elsewhere but when you register it in your state you pay the required taxes etc. Most every state requires this, your state too probably, but no one does it really (except for big purchases sometimes that will likely be known to the state already). We've all just been skating on past it with a wink and a nod.

Sales taxes are paid by the buyer, not the business, that is why businesses show pricing without the tax included. The businesses only collect it and send it on to the state as it is the most efficient way to do it.

I guess that online retailers could just be required to send a matching invoice (or some document noting delivered value) to the states for their records for their calculation for what taxes you owe, but that just seems ridiculous and the current systems is much simpler as it does not connect people personally to their purchase.

Tugg
 
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GuitrThree
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:25 pm

Quoting max999 (Reply 74):
like the Cayman Islands.

Umm? Ever ship from the Cayman Islands? I'm betting it's a little more costly... How about China? Buy things with free shipping from China and it takes 15-20 days. Want it in a day or two? Yea.. go price that...

That alone will keep things in the USA.

If Apple had to charge taxes on everything it sold online based on Bay Area taxes they would move in a second.

Google the same... And what do they sell? Oh, that's right, the vast majority of their business is advertising on free internet searches....

And you might not believe it, but companies are moving away from NYC because of the taxes. Not in large quantities, yet, but look at the states like TX, TN, and others where they are getting an influx of companies. Why? One word. Low taxes.

Oh, and one other thing, smart people, whom you call the "right educated labor pool," will move where the jobs are.

Simplistic or not, it works.

Sorry you don't see it.
 
Flighty
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:46 am

Quoting tugger (Reply 75):
I guess that online retailers could just be required to send a matching invoice (or some document noting delivered value) to the states for their records for their calculation for what taxes you owe, but that just seems ridiculous and the current systems is much simpler as it does not connect people personally to their purchase.


But Kansas or whatever has no jurisdiction to tell Amazon (in another state) to send them an invoice. Kansas also can't place limits on you placing orders from a business in other state AFAIK. Interstate commerce is above the jurisdiction of states AFAIK; not a lawyer.
 
Flighty
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:48 am

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 76):
Buy things with free shipping from China and it takes 15-20 days. Want it in a day or two? Yea.. go price that...

Speaking of that, really am interested: are these China sellers effectively skating around US postage? I fail to see how a 3 dollar item with free shipping can get all the way to my USA door from China. Does not make sense. But Amazon is seeing a ton of that now. Is this a genius way to beat the system?
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:29 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 78):
I fail to see how a 3 dollar item with free shipping can get all the way to my USA door from China. Does not make sense.

No, it's just that the $3 item and many other items are being shipped over in containers that have room and that were priced out at a flat rate. It you're already paying the rate, why not fill the container and ship your novelty plastic poop over with your iPads?
 
Superfly
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:21 am

Quoting Fabo (Reply 70):
I thought it was pretty obvious that private sale of used items should not be taxed?

Doesn't sound like it based on some of the replies. Seems like some members here are happy with as many new taxes as possible.

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 76):
If Apple had to charge taxes on everything it sold online based on Bay Area taxes they would move in a second.

True but they wouldn't be seen as 'hip' and 'cool' anymore.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 79):
and ship your novelty plastic poop over with your iPads?

  
China is making more important items than plastic poop today. Perhaps the US needs to start making plastic poop like China because our government keeps borrowing money from China.
 
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Tugger
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:44 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 77):
But Kansas or whatever has no jurisdiction to tell Amazon (in another state) to send them an invoice. Kansas also can't place limits on you placing orders from a business in other state AFAIK. Interstate commerce is above the jurisdiction of states AFAIK; not a lawyer.

I understand what you are saying yet, to use Amazon as the example, many states where Amazon is not based got Amazon to agree to collect that tax. There is something that allows states to get these companies to do this.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 80):
Doesn't sound like it based on some of the replies. Seems like some members here are happy with as many new taxes as possible.

Is that what you see? I see people understanding that the taxes do serve a purpose and are at reasonable or they would not have voted for them, people that are used to paying sales tax, and people understanding the inequity that occurs against the businesses in their own communities. This is taxation with representation as people vote the taxes they pay in their communities and that is all this would provide.

Tugg
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:19 am

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 35):

Requiring online and mail order retailers to collect and forward sales taxes to the states where they are sent to leads to a costly nightmare.

Hardly. It can be taken care of with a small piece of software and handled automatically for every purchase based on the shipping address.
 
JJJ
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:15 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 82):

Hardly. It can be taken care of with a small piece of software and handled automatically for every purchase based on the shipping address.

You can shift that burden on to the buyer. The seller just has to add some kind of form stating the value, and have the buyer pay tax on arrival.

USPS or the different Fedex/UPS/etc. could collect it for the government for a fee.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:22 am

Very simple. Get VAT.

Companies with a tax number do not pay VAT online in Europe, individuals do pay heir local VAT rate with the purchase of the goods. Very simle and clean.

If items are bought online from third countries, the express carrier will do the customs clearance and collect the duty/vat on delivery.
 
Superfly
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:05 am

Quoting tugger (Reply 81):
I see people understanding that the taxes do serve a purpose

Well of course we aunderstand the purpose for taxes but the government get's plenty already. No need to introduce new taxes.

Quoting tugger (Reply 81):
would not have voted for them

???
We're not talking an election.
 
rfields5421
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:01 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 72):
Taxes at the destination address is just plain stupid. It makes no sense.

The physical transaction occurs upon delivery, not upon submitting the order or shipping.

Sales tax is based upon the physical transfer of ownership of the item.

Again, why do you seem to believe that handing a credit card to a merchant and receiving a product is different from giving a credit card number to a merchant online and receiving a product?
 
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Tugger
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:14 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 85):
Well of course we aunderstand the purpose for taxes but the government get's plenty already. No need to introduce new taxes.

Look, I am fine with not increasing taxes in general (though I realize it cannot be a fixed thing like the mantra "no new taxes"). I did not vote for a single one of the CA taxes that were on the last ballot, the state does not need "more". But this is not "introducing a new tax". It is keeping up with the changes in retail and keeping things current to keep up current levels of local funding. Remember this is not federal taxes (though the Congress will likely have to "allow" it due to the interstate commerce clause), this is far more local, and as online sales grow the local funding will become more and more impacted and local business will suffer more and more. And that is just not right.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 85):
???We're not talking an election.

Yes we are. The local citizens are either electing the people that are instituting the taxes or more often they are voting for the taxes themselves.

I personally support requiring sales tax calculation down toe the county level (versus either just the state level or city/township/whatever level). And to those that cry "That's too hard!" or "It puts too much of a burden on the poor online retailer...", do you want to see just how easy it is: http://www.thestc.com/. Or: http://www.taxrates.com/ There are numerous programs and services and ways to do this, it is just not that overwhelmingly hard to do. The great thing is that new businesses will spring up or existing businesses will expand to help the online retailer. It's the American way, more business!

Tugg

[Edited 2013-01-18 07:55:11]
 
Superfly
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:20 pm

Quoting tugger (Reply 87):
It is keeping up with the changes in retail and keeping things current to keep up current levels of local funding.


Spoken like a politician. Sounds like you have a future in elected office.

Quoting tugger (Reply 87):
Yes we are.


No we're not.
We're talking about an online sales tax.
 
darthluke12694
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:28 pm

Quoting tugger (Reply 87):
Yes we are. The local citizens are either electing the people that are instituting the taxes or more often they are voting for the taxes themselves.

You do have a point. In my county, a couple years ago we voted for a 25 cent tax increase on wheel tax to build a new high school. But as Superfly said, we are talking about online sales tax, and we don't vote for that (as far as I know anyway).
 
N801NW
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:52 pm

I think we are talking about a change in the method of collection of an existing tax. My state's Sales & Use Tax requires merchants to collect the 5% sales tax at the point of sale. If I buy an item from Amazon.com or any store in the sales tax free state next to me I am legally required to report that purchase on my state 1040 for that year. Over $5000, it must be paid quarterly. In reality, there is little individual compliance with these laws. That is why most governments and brick-and-mortar retailers want online sellers to collect the existing tax.
 
N867DA
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:15 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 88):
Spoken like a politician. Sounds like you have a future in elected office.

How is a tax for online orders different from taxes on mail-order or telephone purchases? They are based on where the recipient lives. The recipient's community receive the funds. These have been around for decades. This is the law catching up to technology.

Why are e-retailers given a pass?
 
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Tugger
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:29 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 88):
Spoken like a politician. Sounds like you have a future in elected office.

Not possible, what I am saying is true.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 88):
No we're not.
We're talking about an online sales tax.

Yes, and you are not making the obvious and important connection. Yes we are talking about applying sales taxes to online sales. But you are missing that sales taxes are local taxes that support the community and states. The taxes that exist all were voted into existence because of a need and are reduced as online sales increase. And then as online sales continue to increase the burden falls more and more onto the lower local sales, which means either increasing the taxes on the lower sales base to maintain the needed revenue, or reduced local services and impacts to the community which in turn will impact business and the people living in the community.

By the way, I thought you liked the idea of states that do not tax income. Advocating to not apply sales taxes to online sales will most certainly impact states that do not have an income tax as online sales continue to increase.

Quoting darthluke12694 (Reply 89):
You do have a point. In my county, a couple years ago we voted for a 25 cent tax increase on wheel tax to build a new high school. But as Superfly said, we are talking about online sales tax, and we don't vote for that (as far as I know anyway).

As I note above, it is one and the same essentially. In the past you would likely buy want you locally and a sales taxes would be paid, now there is the as easy option of buying online. We are talking about sales tax the community or state would otherwise have received for the transaction. Having these taxes apply to the online transaction is just keeping things current, it is not adding a new tax and singling out online sales unfairly.

Quoting N801NW (Reply 90):
I think we are talking about a change in the method of collection of an existing tax. My state's Sales & Use Tax requires merchants to collect the 5% sales tax at the point of sale. If I buy an item from Amazon.com or any store in the sales tax free state next to me I am legally required to report that purchase on my state 1040 for that year. Over $5000, it must be paid quarterly. In reality, there is little individual compliance with these laws. That is why most governments and brick-and-mortar retailers want online sellers to collect the existing tax.

  

Tugg
 
Superfly
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:28 am

Quoting tugger (Reply 92):
you are not making the obvious and important connection.



Yes I have. We all know the purpose of taxes. Government doesn't know how to spend out tax dollars wisely so why give them more access to tax more?
 
cmf
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:34 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 93):
Yes I have. We all know the purpose of taxes. Government doesn't know how to spend out tax dollars wisely so why give them more access to tax more?

The question at hand is - Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax. It isn't - do you agree with with how the money is spent.
 
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par13del
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:42 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 86):
The physical transaction occurs upon delivery, not upon submitting the order or shipping.

The payment is made before the physical transaction take place, funds are actually removed from your account at purchase.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 86):
Sales tax is based upon the physical transfer of ownership of the item.

Except as above, online payment is made first, is purchase on layaway at the store equivalent, or do they require you to pay installments?

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 86):
Again, why do you seem to believe that handing a credit card to a merchant and receiving a product is different from giving a credit card number to a merchant online and receiving a product?

The difference is that you walk away with the product, online you have to sit and wait for delivery. Your money is already contributing to the bottom line of the business while you have not yet received any tangible benefit from the transaction.

States are struggling with this for a few years, unfortunately, unless they come up with a solution equitable to them all, the feds will step in and collect all the online taxes. Tugg has mentioned some states creating a business environment friendly to customer purchases, are they to be penalized for other states choosing to go another way in their method of paying for their services?

Other items to note, what about taxes where the goods are actually manufactured, delivery taxes paid by the infrastructure of shipping, taxes on the raw materials different from the finished product, would be interesting to see how many entities got a piece of the pie of the finished product when it actually gets to your door.
 
rfields5421
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:06 pm

Quoting par13del (Reply 95):
The payment is made before the physical transaction take place, funds are actually removed from your account at purchase.
Quoting par13del (Reply 95):
The difference is that you walk away with the product, online you have to sit and wait for delivery.

You've never bought furniture or large appliances?

Same thing.

You give them your credit card and you sit and wait for delivery - sometimes months.

Online sales are not different than the 100+ years of mail order this nation practiced before the internet was stolen from the US military by Al Gore and his friends in the Senate and given to the civilians.

Sears, Montgomery Ward, Spiegel and others collected sales tax based on delivery location for decades. And some small mail order retailers did not.

The only difference today is you don't have to physically mail the order form to the seller.
 
Superfly
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:50 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 94):
The question at hand is - Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax. It isn't - do you agree with with how the money is spent.


....and many disagree with a new tax because of the way government spends tax dollars they already collect.
 
cmf
Posts: 3120
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:22 pm

RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:18 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 97):
...and many disagree with a new tax because of the way government spends tax dollars they already collect.

... which is a different issue. But why be part of the solution when you can be part of the problem...
 
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Tugger
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RE: Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?

Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:24 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 93):
Yes I have. We all know the purpose of taxes. Government doesn't know how to spend out tax dollars wisely so why give them more access to tax more?

Do you think the USA would have become the nation it is without taxes? Yes taxes are not a "all good" thing, yes they can be misspent, but especially at the local level they perform and vital and critical function in the community.

By the way you never answered my question:

Quoting tugger (Reply 92):
I thought you liked the idea of states that do not tax income. Advocating to not apply sales taxes to online sales will most certainly impact states that do not have an income tax as online sales continue to increase.
Quoting par13del (Reply 95):
The payment is made before the physical transaction take place, funds are actually removed from your account at purchase.

That is the normal case for almost all sales in general. Even at the store you hand over your cash before you walk away with the merchandise.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 97):
....and many disagree with a new tax because of the way government spends tax dollars they already collect.

As do I, however we are not talking about a new tax. "Sales tax" is not new, it is just that "online sales" is a new form of sales and the time has come, the industry has matured sufficiently, that they should be on the same basis as all retailers. Why is every other form of retail required to collect the tax but not "online", what makes it so different from catalog sales or TV/telephone sales? The only difference is that nowadays they are vastly more capable and useable and will disrupt the local retail business community in a far greater way, harming jobs of the communities people live in and reducing the ability of the community to survive.

The position you are taking simply does not make sense.

Tugg

[Edited 2013-01-19 10:57:25]

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