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melpax
Posts: 2091
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:13 am

RE: The Hospital Charging Games

Wed May 22, 2013 12:21 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 44):
Before you start crying for the poor insurance companies I'll note that in Australia they were so successful that the Government decided to join the party with Medicare Private. BTW, you pay your Medicare taxes even if you also buy private.

The Medicare levy is 1.5% of your taxable income. Everyone who pays tax here pays this. However, if your income is over $84K for a single person, or $168K for a family, and if you haven't got private hospital cover, you then have to pay an additional 1% as a 'surcharge'. For those with cover, the you get a rebate from the govenment towards your insurance, depending on your income.

http://www.privatehealth.gov.au/heal...rance/incentivessurcharges/mls.htm

Quoting bhill (Reply 45):

I don't know what the situation is in the US, but if you have private cover here, generally the only delay with getting surgery would be the availability of your surgeon or equipment availibility as per Ken's post. The insurers here do not have a big say in what treatment you are given, unlike the US. My dad suffered a heart attack a few years back, although we didn't know it at the time. We took him up to the closest hospital with an ER, a private hospital 2 minutes from home that also has a cardiac unit. This was at 6AM. He was seen straight away by a cardiologist who decided on putting in a stent. The only delay was waiting for the rest of the theatre staff to arrive for work, by 8AM he had the stent put in & was an ICU ward. He was in for 5 days, the only cost out of his pocket was $350 for using the private ER (the fee wasn't covered by the insurer). The only time that his insurer (which was Medibank) was contacted was when he first went in to the ER, to confirm what level of coverage he held.
 
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pvjin
Posts: 3586
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:52 pm

RE: The Hospital Charging Games

Wed May 22, 2013 1:09 pm

Why not just pay some more taxes and let the government cover most of the healthcare services? That would sure keep the prices down for an individual, funding shouldn't be a problem if you also cut some money from enormous US military machine which is mostly just waste of money.

It's insane that people have to die just because they lack money. Also all those stories about people going totally bankrupt because of enormous healthcare costs, they are plain disgusting and make me realize how lucky I'm to live in this welfare state... I just hope idiots won't destroy it all by voting some disgusting right wing government into power.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
Ken777
Topic Author
Posts: 10148
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: The Hospital Charging Games

Wed May 22, 2013 4:18 pm

Quoting melpax (Reply 50):
The Medicare levy is 1.5% of your taxable income. Everyone who pays tax here pays this. However, if your income is over $84K for a single person, or $168K for a family, and if you haven't got private hospital cover, you then have to pay an additional 1% as a 'surcharge'.

Our basic Medicare is far more than that basic 1.5% - a result of cost shifting. Until we expand Medicare to cover everyone at a core level of care we will continue to pay massively more than other countries.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 51):
Why not just pay some more taxes and let the government cover most of the healthcare services?

Because most Americans don't realize that would be the less expensive approach to health care.
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: The Hospital Charging Games

Wed May 22, 2013 4:23 pm

Quoting Dano1977 (Reply 49):
I'm only quoting what he said, so for all I know could be BS, but the reason the insurance company did this, because despite the cost of the flight and other associated costs, it worked out cheaper, than keeping him in an American hospital.

Colorado sees a ton of that. Skiiers are often youngish and might not have a corporate or government career at the moment. Horrors, how dare they, but it is true.


My friend broke her ankle there. She was young and had no medical insurance, because her government career had not begun yet. $35,000

[Edited 2013-05-22 09:24:09]
 
Starbuk7
Posts: 555
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:09 pm

RE: The Hospital Charging Games

Wed May 22, 2013 4:53 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 51):
Why not just pay some more taxes and let the government cover most of the healthcare services? That would sure keep the prices down for an individual, funding shouldn't be a problem if you also cut some money from enormous US military machine which is mostly just waste of money.


Sorry, I am tired of 'paying more taxes'. Been doing that for the last several years watching my paycheck going down, no pay increases and all my other bills going up, including health care costs. Getting harder and harder to make ends meet for the less than 50% of us who actually pay taxes in this country.

And as for our military you being from Finland its nunya business.
 
bhill
Posts: 1883
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 8:28 am

RE: The Hospital Charging Games

Wed May 22, 2013 8:22 pm

pvjin, because the Health Insurance lobby would never allow it, it's why Obama had to make the concessions he made and why the GOP could never get reform done, they would be shooting themselves in the foot.. The health insurance industry in the US is a for profit industry. I do not have a problem with profits, really, I don't. But health care in the US is more akin to the airline industry, we all know the weirdness in ticket pricing. And the pharmaceutical industry....why must the US pay to subsidize the cost of drugs in other countries because those countries put the hammer down on drug pricing? I am just wondering when the health care industry will wake up and discover that they will eventually price themselves into...I don't even know what to call it.
Carpe Pices
 
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DocLightning
Posts: 21967
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

RE: The Hospital Charging Games

Wed May 22, 2013 8:26 pm

Quoting starbuk7 (Reply 54):
Sorry, I am tired of 'paying more taxes'. Been doing that for the last several years

No you haven't. You've been paying LESS taxes for the last several years. There have been NO tax hikes unless you make over $250K and even that was modest.

But if you have health insurance, you're paying a "tax" already. And that tax pays for the emergency room bill for Laqueisha who has been in the ER fifteen times this month for "pain" caused by withdrawal from the pills she likes to pop. It's also paying for that uninsured baby in the ICU for whooping cough because he was born in a state that doesn't insure all kids and so he never got vaccines.

And if you don't have health insurance, then I am paying a "tax" for your next ER visit when you step on a nail.

[Edited 2013-05-22 13:31:12]
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
Ken777
Topic Author
Posts: 10148
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: The Hospital Charging Games

Wed May 22, 2013 8:48 pm

Quoting starbuk7 (Reply 54):
Sorry, I am tired of 'paying more taxes'. Been doing that for the last several years watching my paycheck going down,

You work for a company that hands out nanny care then you can see why costs are going up. But then you probably have VA Medical available since you're retired from the Navy.

Quoting starbuk7 (Reply 54):
no pay increases

Going back a decade I found that my "pay" took continual hits from the increases in health insurance. My premiums doubled in the first 4 years of Bush/Cheney. That impacted my pay and those types of increases will continue to impact pay increases you'd like as long as we maintain our current insurance industry led system.

Quoting starbuk7 (Reply 54):
for the less than 50% of us who actually pay taxes in this country.

Actually everyone with money in their pockets pays taxes. Start with sales taxes. Then toss in all the taxes related to putting gas in your car. Now look at property taxes (which is included in rent if you rent) and all the other state and federal taxes. Got an income from working? FICA is, what, 15.2%? Folks making $2.35 an hour waiting tables pays that FICA - and they don't get a refund at the end of the year.

Now there is a large group of folks that don't have an Income Tax liability because of the GOP's Socialist Cash Hand Our that the Republicans added into their "Contract With America". That's $1,000.00 per child per year. Republicans try to hide the Socialism part of that cash hand out by calling it a "Tax Credit". That's one of those "a rose by any other name" bits and it doesn't hide the impact that hand out has on the tax liabilities of families. Buy, hey, that multi trillion dollar handout did help the GOP win the election in 1996. And YOU are still paying for that political victory.

Quoting bhill (Reply 55):
The health insurance industry in the US is a for profit industry.

No doubt about that. They are, for some reason, unable to see the profit potential of moving everyone to Medicare with private Medicare Gap available as their profit stream. The fact that the Aussie Government started a private health insurance company pretty well screams the profit potential.

Quoting bhill (Reply 55):
why must the US pay to subsidize the cost of drugs in other countries because those countries put the hammer down on drug pricing?

Because the pharma industry has a lot of money and they know how to use it when it comes to politicians. They wrote the Medicare Part D law making it illegal for the government to negotiate prices for Medicare patients. And W signed that Pharma Law with a big smile.
 
mirrodie
Posts: 6796
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 3:33 am

RE: The Hospital Charging Games

Thu May 23, 2013 2:43 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
Actually, I'm a big fan of copays. And higher copays at the ER than at the office. They save money not directly (the copay is usually nominal), but by reducing the number of inappropriate ER visits for things like babies with colds.

Agreed and wholly agree on the waste that I see on the medicaid end of it.

Like you, Doc, I see a ton of issues in everyday practice that have my SMH and rolling my eyes....
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
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casinterest
Posts: 12474
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

RE: The Hospital Charging Games

Thu May 23, 2013 4:38 am

I personally still love the fact that Doctors can " Mess up Royally" and still get to practice and charge more to fix what they didn't fix in the first place. I also love that Insurance companies can deny coverage and force collections on items they were legally obligated to pay. Those two issue, and the lack of transparent charges for consumers are the crux of the issues in health care.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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mad99
Posts: 1260
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:33 am

RE: The Hospital Charging Games

Thu May 23, 2013 6:55 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 43):
I rotated in a hospital in London and I rotated in a hospital in Leganes (Comunidad de Madrid). I would much rather work as a physician in Spain than in the UK.

That's interesting. My experiences with the NHS are positive but, touch wood, I've never had any serious health problems.

Here in spain we've had two kids born here, again nothing major but so far extremely satisfied. Friends of ours have a 10 yo boy who had bone cancer and part of the cure was to cut out 8cm of leg bone (shorting the leg) and they are vary happy with the care provided.



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 56):
And if you don't have health insurance, then I am paying a "tax" for your next ER visit when you step on a nail.

This is it. Everyone has health issues and the lights stay on at hospital so even if you have nothing someone pays!
 
Starbuk7
Posts: 555
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:09 pm

RE: The Hospital Charging Games

Thu May 23, 2013 12:33 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 56):
No you haven't. You've been paying LESS taxes for the last several years. There have been NO tax hikes unless you make over $250K and even that was modest.


Yes, they have, and I do not make near that much. Just this last January first Medicare and Social Security deductions went up to the toon of $75 buck a paycheck. Plus CA, if you haven't noticed, raised taxes this year as well.
 
bhill
Posts: 1883
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 8:28 am

RE: The Hospital Charging Games

Thu May 23, 2013 9:55 pm

Damn, I stumbled upon this today......

http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php?indexType=i&showYear=2013

"Better life through chemicals...." Indeed...
Carpe Pices
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 13013
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: The Hospital Charging Games

Fri May 24, 2013 12:50 am

Quoting aa757first (Reply 34):

Again when you start mentioning network and out of network, that's where I lose interest. In this country, any provider, public or private, is accepted. You, as a patient, never have to think about what-ifs. Just bring your insurance card and some cash or credit for the co-pay and that's it. No manuals to read, no nothing.

And like Doc said, the triple-payer model is great. The government can't arbitrarily change rates because employers and users are payers in the system too. It's a free market for thr doctors themselves...provide good service, you'll have a steady stream of patients and earn more. Specialize in a difficult branch of medicine and you'll earn more.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty

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