http://t.money.msn.com/now/fast-food...kers-uniting-to-strike-on-aug-29-1


Some fast food workers are preparing a work stoppage/strike for higher wages in the US.. This strike will coincide with the 50th anniversary of the Civil Rights March on Washington and labor Day. I like the part where it takes an Australian worker 18 minutes of labor to buy 1 Big Mack, while a US worker has to work 34 minutes for 1 burger. Does this surprise, of course it doe not, and does it surprise that the corporations cry poor mouth, of course it does not. They want a debate, and trust me that is all they want to do. Talk is cheap, and so are they. I think I saw the Heritage Foundation mentioned also, surprise, surprise. Retail workers, are not happy, nor overpaid either. I wonder why? A workers paradise here in the US. I wish them all the luck in the world, they are going to need it in the US.

[Edited 2013-08-20 20:43:06]

These workers are in dreamland. Fast Food has always been and will always be a minimum wage job. It essentially requires no skill so their labour is completely and easily replaceable and not worthy of any higher wage. The order-takers are lucky they have not been replaced by machines...

This really just shows how desperate and out of touch with reality most unions are nowadays

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 1): This really just shows how desperate and out of touch with reality most unions are nowadays

How about the wages in Australia, are they caused by greedy unions also? A ridiculous premise, it is greed by the corporations, nothing else, with the collusion of the governments, state and federal.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 2): How about the wages in Australia, are they caused by greedy unions also? A ridiculous premise, it is greed by the corporations, nothing else, with the collusion of the governments, state and federal.

Australia is Communist, didn't you get the memo?

I do with the US were more like Australia.

I say if they want higher wages then get a better job that pays more!

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3): Australia is Communist, didn't you get the memo? I missed that Doc. I do with the US were more like Australia.

I do also, they seem to have a moral compass sadly lacking here. A ton of full time workers here would just love to make 15 bucks an hour, there high school kid can it seems. I always liked Australians.

Quoting dragon-wings (Reply 4): I say if they want higher wages then get a better job that pays more!

They may not all be as talented and intelligent as all you union/worker haters are. Everyone is not created equal on this earth. It does not mean they should be slaves. We went through that era before. You do know that?

[Edited 2013-08-20 21:10:23]

Quoting WarRI1 (Thread starter): Some fast food workers are preparing a work stoppage/strike for higher wages in the US..

Maybe its about time you started paying better wages..

That way, you can get rid of the ridiculous habit of having to tip everywhere.   

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 2): How about the wages in Australia, are they caused by greedy unions also?

Yes,

We currently have a car industry here an Australia, and have done so for many many years (albeit highly uncompetitive and only survives through numerous Governments bailouts) why, because of outrageous union demands over time.

So yes, we have Unions trouble here, and many companies/industries are struggling with the burden of high wages/salaries.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 2): How about the wages in Australia, are they caused by greedy unions also? A ridiculous premise, it is greed by the corporations, nothing else, with the collusion of the governments, state and federal.

Take a look at the cost of living in Australia plus the immigration and labour policies there and you will see why they make $13+ hour (BTW, that is minimum wage there). The US has very different characteristics...

[Edited 2013-08-20 21:14:03]

This strike is a waste of time and destined to fail. Whoever the genius is that decided that trying to raise minimum wage by 100% for burger-flipping (which is dominated by youth and uneducated individuals no less) will surely be laughed out of the negotiating room...if it even gets that far.

I also had a good laugh at the article that tries to suggest that McDonald's workers aren't primarily made up of youth anymore (even though they are), because the article doesn't make considerations for employee age relative to seniority (front-line vs. shift leader vs. assistant manager vs. manager).

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 2): How about the wages in Australia, are they caused by greedy unions also?

Nope, but a handful of economic factors are at play, most notably the Consumer Price Index (CPI) which directly impacts cost-of-living, and will typically raise wages through market forces.

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/rankings_by_country.jsp

Minimum wage in the food industry is also higher in Australia because tipping is not customary as it is in North America.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3): I do with the US were more like Australia.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 5): I always liked Australians.

Politically, yes. But Australian corporations are no different than American corporations, they both have shareholders to answer to, so let's not kid ourselves into thinking that Australians are somehow more benevolent.

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 1): These workers are in dreamland. Fast Food has always been and will always be a minimum wage job.

Which is fine, but the minimum wage hasn't kept up with inflation. $15/hour is unrealistic, but the idea of $9/hour, as proposed by Obama, is reasonable (only about a $1.50/hour increase). And then peg it to inflation and you don't have to worry about the minimum wage becoming less and less valuable and you don't have to have these battles every couple of years.

-Mir

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 7): Maybe its about time you started paying better wages..

I agree.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 7): That way, you can get rid of the ridiculous habit of having to tip everywhere.

I will just bet that that would be no problem if they were making the money Australians make.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 7): Yes,

I was referring to the workers in the article. Are they union over there?

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 7): We currently have a car industry here an Australia, and have done so for many many years (albeit highly uncompetitive and only survives through numerous Governments bailouts) why, because of outrageous union demands over time. So yes, we have Unions trouble here, and many companies/industries are struggling with the burden of high wages/salaries.

I was union, I heard that all my life. When in Rome, do as the Romans do. When you live in one country, you must pay enough wage for the worker to survive in that country. The good old global economy, send your jobs to slave wage countries, and then say we cannot compete when that country produces cheaper. You sent the jobs there, we live here, we pay the tax rates, endure the cost of living, and the very same people who sent the jobs away, now want you to live on less wages. It does not work, that is why the rich get richer and the worker gets poorer. Hence this strike for higher wages. There are no jobs, these are people, not kids who had good jobs, now they are working for hamburger wages. They could not sent those jobs overseas, or they would have.

Quoting Mir (Reply 10): Which is fine, but the minimum wage hasn't kept up with inflation. $15/hour is unrealistic, but the idea of $9/hour, as proposed by Obama, is reasonable (only about a $1.50/hour increase). And then peg it to inflation and you don't have to worry about the minimum wage becoming less and less valuable and you don't have to have these battles every couple of years.

A very sensible answer, too realistic for many on here. People have to live. I do not give a damn about the cost of living in Australia, they obviously are doing a better job than we are facing reality. Everything goes up here, but the wages. The rich keep getting richer here, Gee! I wonder why? A very good answer, quickly dismissed by the experts on here.

Quoting Mir (Reply 10): Which is fine, but the minimum wage hasn't kept up with inflation. $15/hour is unrealistic, but the idea of $9/hour, as proposed by Obama, is reasonable (only about a $1.50/hour increase). And then peg it to inflation and you don't have to worry about the minimum wage becoming less and less valuable and you don't have to have these battles every couple of years.

I would probably concur with you on this. $9/hour would be fair in most places. $15/hour, when many jobs that require degrees don't pay that, is patently ridiculous. These workers are delusional if they truly think that is what their labour is worth...

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 12): I do not give a damn about the cost of living in Australia, they obviously are doing a better job than we are facing reality.

Now you are ignoring reality. If the cost of living is (theoretically) 75% higher in Australia but their minimum wage is only 50% higher are they really better off? Cost of living absolutely matters!

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 13): I would probably concur with you on this. $9/hour would be fair in most places. $15/hour, when many jobs that require degrees don't pay that, is patently ridiculous. These workers are delusional if they truly think that is what their labour is worth...

"When many jobs that require degrees do not pay that" Isn't that somehow ridiculous? Do you think that is OK? 600 bucks a week with a degree for 40 hours if you make 15 an hour. 100K for an education to make 15 dollars an hour? What country do you inhabit? My son makes over 2 times that straight time, never mind overtime, He is union, as I was. I am retired 15 years, and made way more, then you are talking for someone with a degree. Straight time. What progress we have made here, what a country?

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 7): We currently have a car industry here an Australia, and have done so for many many years (albeit highly uncompetitive and only survives through numerous Governments bailouts) why, because of outrageous union demands over time.

Odd, because they claim that's why nobody wants to buy our cars. But Japan and Germany pay their workers living wages and they get healthcare, etc. At some point, that excuse wears thin.

But here's the thing: I can't understand why REPUBLICANS would not want a living wage. Don't they realize that the welfare programs are simply tax subsidies on big businesses trying not to pay their workers? I don't want to be wasting my taxes on unnecessary welfare.

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 14): Now you are ignoring reality. If the cost of living is (theoretically) 75% higher in Australia but their minimum wage is only 50% higher are they really better off? Cost of living absolutely matters!

All that matters is the cost of living in the country where you are working. We certainly do have a high cost of living here, with ever lower wages. As was said earlier, inflation coupled with wage deflation, equals a screwing for the worker. Those figures do not mean squat for the worker who has no job, or has a poorly paid one. The Piper must be paid, unless you come from wealth, or live in a slum.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16): Odd, because they claim that's why nobody wants to buy our cars. But Japan and Germany pay their workers living wages and they get healthcare, etc. At some point, that excuse wears thin.

An excellent set of points, but do not worry Doc, they will dispute them, have no fear.

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 8): Take a look at the cost of living in Australia

A lot of which is attributable to 1) Distance 2) Small market & 3) market manipulation by multinationals

Gemuser

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16): Odd, because they claim that's why nobody wants to buy our cars. But Japan and Germany pay their workers living wages and they get healthcare, etc. At some point, that excuse wears thin.

Point taken. But I don't know. Are car makers, make cars for the local market (consumer) and we are apparently not buying them, cheaper imports is the reason we are told..... but ?

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 15): Do you think that is OK? 600 bucks a week with a degree for 40 hours if you make 15 an hour. 100K for an education to make 15 dollars an hour?

Well, if your degree is in "gender studies", "cultural anthropology" or some other, really useful soft science then having no value on the labor market should not come as a surprise. Not all university degrees guarantee good job and decent pay.

[Edited 2013-08-20 22:52:48]

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 12): I do not give a damn about the cost of living in Australia, they obviously are doing a better job than we are facing reality.

So now you're rejecting economic principles?  

The fact of the matter is that Australia's CPI is a direct influence on their minimum wage. That cannot be disputed.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16): But here's the thing: I can't understand why REPUBLICANS would not want a living wage. Don't they realize that the welfare programs are simply tax subsidies on big businesses trying not to pay their workers? I don't want to be wasting my taxes on unnecessary welfare.

Republicans aren't really conservatives, so comparing the GOP to a party that is legitimately fiscally conservative is pointless.

Now excuse me while I hunker down and wait to see if some die-hard Republican decides to flame me...

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 17): We certainly do have a high cost of living here, with ever lower wages.

In the US? Really? Your cost of living is actually among the lowest of developed economies. Here's a few examples off the top of my head:

United States vs. Australia
United States vs. Canada
United States vs. Switzerland
United States vs. Japan
United States vs. England

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 21): Well, if your degree is in "gender studies", "cultural anthropology" or some other, really useful soft science then having no value on the labor market should not come as a surprise. Not all university degrees guarantee good job and decent pay.

  

Quoting dragon-wings (Reply 4): I say if they want higher wages then get a better job that pays more!

Except they have all been shipped overseas.

Factory jobs that, at one time, paid a living wage with benefits, now pay near nothing with no benefits. Teachers and first responders are told they are the problems because they live high on the hog at $40,000 a year and we should hate them because of it but how dare they go on public assistance.

I work at a low wage job while I am going to school to get a better paying job and, yes, fast food workers should get benefits they don't have because of the crap they have to put up with. Assault, name calling, armed robbery... All to feed their children and put a roof over their heads. I mean, how dare they! Those free-loaders should just starve to death, right? /sarcasm

Could someone on the far right wing please explain to me how you all hate people who work two and three jobs but they make too much to get food stamps and medicade but they need to be hated because they work low-wage jobs because they get food stamps and medicade?

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3): Australia is Communist, didn't you get the memo? I do with the US were more like Australia.

Yes and no, while our minimum wage is very enviable, it does mean that we lack relative productivity and efficiency, which can harm employment on the long run.

Further, the cost of living is much higher than in the USA. On the other hand, for a higher standard of living, universal health care etc etc it is a small price to pay  

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 7): Maybe its about time you started paying better wages.. That way, you can get rid of the ridiculous habit of having to tip everywhere

  

Oh so true!

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 8): $13+ hour

More than that, minimum wage is $16.33. What's more, most fast food and retail workers are on casual contracts, so they earn over $20 an hour ("casual" here is what you would consider normal for such a position in the USA)

That said, do understand that minimum wage rises by age until 21, which means that many students and young people (i.e. the sort of people who work in fast food) do get paid less than this.

Quoting Mir (Reply 10): $15/hour is unrealistic, but the idea of $9/hour, as proposed by Obama, is reasonable (only about a $1.50/hour increase). And then peg it to inflation and you don't have to worry about the minimum wage becoming less and less valuable

I agree that seems to be the fairest solution - and good balance between raising the minimum wage but not to uneconomic levels

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 25): "casual" here is what you would consider normal for such a position in the USA

Is that like casual encounters?  

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 24): The Unions want $15.00 per hour.

What union?
McDonald's doesn't use union labor.

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 1): Fast Food has always been and will always be a minimum wage job. It essentially requires no skill so their labour is completely and easily replaceable and not worthy of any higher wage.

  

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 2): How about the wages in Australia,

Everything is more expensive in Australia.

Quoting dragon-wings (Reply 4): I say if they want higher wages then get a better job that pays more!

  

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 6): They may not all be as talented and intelligent as all you union/worker haters are.

Umm airline pilots? Fire fighters? UAW?
Those are highly skilled union workers. No one hates them that I know of.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 6): It does not mean they should be slaves. We went through that era before. You do know that?

Seriously?
How many McDonald's workers are forced to be separated from their family? Denied education? Whipped by their bosses? Raped by their bosses?
You should know better than to make such comparisons.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 23): Except they have all been shipped overseas. Factory jobs that, at one time, paid a living wage with benefits, now pay near nothing with no benefits.

Due to excess government regulations and taxation.



My first job in high school was at Taco Bell and it paid minimum wage. All I did was cut the cheese.
It was not a highly skilled job at all and I didn't feel angry 'at the MAN' because it was a minimum wage job. I wasn't a spoiled kid and if I wanted a car, tickets to go see concerts, buy records, weed and meat more girls I needed money and the only way to do that is with a job. I never felt like working at Taco Bell made me a saint or arbiter of good will that deserves what ever pay I asked for.
My guess is that there aren't that many teenagers in the US working fast-food anymore. Students today are taught to protest instead of learning a good work ethic early on. Many of these jobs have gone to illegals and sadly, some on social security.

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 1): These workers are in dreamland.

  

Those types of jobs aren't supposed to be jobs to make a "career" out of or earn a living from. It's crappy bottom-of-the-barrel work that gives you basic skills and experience to move up higher to something better paying. My very first paycheck job was at McDonald's, I made $5.85/hour and I HATED it, but I was also ultimately grateful for it because it helped me build a work history and basic people and professional skills which I eventually used to get a better paying, more enjoyable job. And again, while I hated it, McDonald's did have TONS of opportunity for advancement and to make better pay with additional training. My friend in high school was a manager there before he even graduated, so there was quite a bit of upward mobility.

These workers just don't realize that if their pay were increased to $15/hour, half of them would be out of a job.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 2): it is greed by the corporations, nothing else, with the collusion of the governments, state and federal.

Don't forget to write that one on your chalkboard Glenn Beck.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 6): Everyone is not created equal on this earth.

No one is created equal, but don't kid yourself into thinking those McD's workers are just a permanent class of untalented people that we the talented and productive should subsidize out of the kindness of our own hearts. A lot of them are potentially equally as talented but made bad life decisions or were failed by our atrocious public education system.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 6): It does not mean they should be slaves.

Where do you come up with this stuff?

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 14): Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 12): I do not give a damn about the cost of living in Australia, they obviously are doing a better job than we are facing reality. Now you are ignoring reality. If the cost of living is (theoretically) 75% higher in Australia but their minimum wage is only 50% higher are they really better off? Cost of living absolutely matters!

  

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 15): Do you think that is OK? 600 bucks a week with a degree for 40 hours if you make 15 an hour. 100K for an education to make 15 dollars an hour?

Your implication that it costs 100K for a decent college education is false.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 17): We certainly do have a high cost of living here

False again, look overseas, there's a reason we far outrank your union paradises in Europe and Australia by GDP when adjusted for purchasing power parity, cost of living in the US is incredibly cheap.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 22): Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16): But here's the thing: I can't understand why REPUBLICANS would not want a living wage. Don't they realize that the welfare programs are simply tax subsidies on big businesses trying not to pay their workers? I don't want to be wasting my taxes on unnecessary welfare. Republicans aren't really conservatives, so comparing the GOP to a party that is legitimately fiscally conservative is pointless. Now excuse me while I hunker down and wait to see if some die-hard Republican decides to flame me...

Not from me! A very cogent and accurate description indeed.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 23): Quoting dragon-wings (Reply 4): I say if they want higher wages then get a better job that pays more! Except they have all been shipped overseas.

Intellectually lazy argument.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 23): Factory jobs that, at one time, paid a living wage with benefits, now pay near nothing with no benefits.

Yet there are tons of trade jobs begging to be filled. Go to a technical school and you'll have no problem whatsoever finding a job paying a living wage with benefits.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 23): Teachers and first responders are told they are the problems because they live high on the hog at $40,000 a year and we should hate them because of it but how dare they go on public assistance

$40,000 a year plus pension and benefits for 9 months of work? I'd say that's doing very well indeed.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 23): Could someone on the far right wing please explain to me how you all hate people who work two and three jobs

LOL, that's a straw man if I ever saw one.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 26): Everything is more expensive in Australia.

This.

It would be hard going living in Melbourne or Sydney if you make less than $45K a year. Yes, you'll be able to afford the basics, but you wont't be able to afford any luxuries, even takeaway isn't cheap. Not unusual to spend at least 40 buckd for chinese takeaway for 3 people. You'll certainly won't be able to service a mortage (average home price in Melbourne is around $500K), if you're renting, budget for at least $280-300 a week minimum for a studio or 1 bedroom apartment in a half-decent suburb. For a nice suburb, add another $50-$100 bucks a week. If you have a car, registration is $700 a year, and around $70 to fill your tank.

If you're a single person earning under $497 a week, or a couple with 1 child earning under $896 a week, then you're eligible for public housing. You have a long wait though, usually in the years depending on your preferred area....

And if you happen to live in Perth, it's even worse. Everything is priced as though the whole population of Perth are fly-in-fly-out miners making at least $150K a year (which many of them are......)

[Edited 2013-08-21 03:59:23]

Quoting melpax (Reply 28): And if you happen to live in Perth, it's even worse.

On top of that, I heard it's like 10 guys for every girl.
Sounds like hell on earth but at least the money is good.


Well aware of the high cost of living in Australia. WarRI1 is clearly unaware of that.
There is so much 'monkey-see-monkey-do' within the American left-wing. They see 1 think they like in another country (usually a European country) and get on a high-horse and start preaching about "we in America should do the same".

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 27): And again, while I hated it, McDonald's did have TONS of opportunity for advancement and to make better pay with additional training. My friend in high school was a manager there before he even graduated, so there was quite a bit of upward mobility.

I knew a lady years ago that got her first job at McDonald's at age 16 in 1979. She stayed there her first few years in college and by the time she graduated (in 4 years) was already at the corporate level in her mid 20s. She has been working at their headquarters near Chicago for many years and is doing well for herself.
Her an her husband & children lives in the very posh upscale north Chicago suburb of Winnetka. They can afford to send their children to the best schools as well.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 2): it is greed by the corporations, nothing else, with the collusion of the governments, state and federal.

  
...and demanding $15 per hour to flip burgers isn't greed?

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 27): Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 15): Do you think that is OK? 600 bucks a week with a degree for 40 hours if you make 15 an hour. 100K for an education to make 15 dollars an hour? Your implication that it costs 100K for a decent college education is false.

Anyone who spends $100K for college and ends up at McDonald's was probably too stupid to learn a serious career and gained nothing from college. Of course there are a lot of tenured professors that teach silly liberal arts courses and often times make their courses a requirement for graduation.
Oh there is nothing "greedy" about that...  

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 27): $40,000 a year plus pension and benefits for 9 months of work? I'd say that's doing very well indeed.

...and often times get awards, get all the holidays off as well as Christmas break and spring break on top of summer break. BTW, most earn more than $40,000 per year.

Quoting melpax (Reply 28): It would be hard going living in Melbourne or Sydney if you make less than $45K a year

Absolutely. As you say PER is higher still, and CBR (people often forget that one!) is the highest of the lot.

I'm getting by, but my girlfriend who makes about ~$30k (while studying) really struggles here. Cup of coffee? ~$5! Those "luxuries" soon go out of the window.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 29): Quoting melpax (Reply 28):And if you happen to live in Perth, it's even worse. On top of that, I heard it's like 10 guys for every girl. Sounds like hell on earth but at least the money is good.

Darwin, and most of Queensland north of Noosa are the same with the guy/girl ratio......

Quoting melpax (Reply 31): Darwin, and most of Queensland north of Noosa are the same with the guy/girl ratio......

You're not just saying that to keep me out of Australia are you?
If so that ratio is really sad.  
Sydney sounds like just another Western city with the same stores and similar attractions I've seen a million times over in the US and Europe.
It's places like Perth, Darwin, and most of Queensland north of Noosa that seem to be the most interesting - geographically and culturally speaking.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 30): I'm getting by, but my girlfriend who makes about ~$30k (while studying) really struggles here. Cup of coffee? ~$5! Those "luxuries" soon go out of the window.

My Aussie friends tell me the exact same thing about the cost of everything there. Then there is the cost of domestic flights on Qantas. My goodness!  
A flight from Perth to Bangkok is cheaper than a flight from Perth to Sydney. I imagine flights to Alice Springs are even higher.

So what exactly is the pay at McDonalds / Burger King pr. hour in the US ?


This was a cool site:

No surprise, Norway is more expensive than the US  http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living...try1=United+States&country2=Norway

Quoting WarRI1 (Thread starter): Some fast food workers are preparing a work stoppage/strike for higher wages in the US..

They'd be better off striking for healthy food.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 7): Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 2): How about the wages in Australia, are they caused by greedy unions also? Yes

Corresponding with a relative in Oz, internet comms, and my brother and sister-in-law being there for a month last year, my take is that union influence in the labour market is FAR less than it was one or two generations ago.

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 8): Take a look at the cost of living in Australia plus the immigration and labour policies there and you will see why they make $13+ hour (BTW, that is minimum wage there). The US has very different characteristics...

My brother reported that at a nice fish & chips restaurant in the Sydney burbs, 2 meals cost about $45 AUS. The server they were talking also mentoned she was making $17/hr.

Cost of living in Oz is higher than US (as it is in Canada), but then look at the social services delivered by the government. Of which there are now relatively few in the US. If Ted Cruz or someone similar gets elected in 2016, very quickly there will be none.

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 14): Now you are ignoring reality. If the cost of living is (theoretically) 75% higher in Australia but their minimum wage is only 50% higher are they really better off? Cost of living absolutely matters!

See above. Many living costs are mitigated by government services. Here in Canada, for example, your basic medical care costs you nothing directly (we even will extend that to American visitors, as a courtesy). BTW, elect a Dem for another 8 years and Obamacare will morph into a Canadian-style single-payer system, i.e., the government.
.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 26): Due to excess government regulations and taxation.

I will remind you that during our recent (and continuing) economic problems, the two OECD countries that fared worst were the US and the UK, both low tax, low regulation countries. The two that fared best were Canada and Germany, both relatively high tax and high regulation.

Policies need to be set for the good of the people, not the corporations.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 32): My Aussie friends tell me the exact same thing about the cost of everything there

Two obvious examples are smokes and booze, I think the latter in particular will hit you hard  

When I lived in North Carolina last year you could pick up a pack of cigs for $4, whereas here you don't get anything for less than $15, and that's if you're lucky. You're pretty much lucking at $18-20 (I do understand, though, that NC is low even by US standards)

As for alcohol, in NC you pick up a 6 pack for $5-10, the lower end for Bud Light through to the higher end for Sam Adams. In Australia you would look at $15-20. Don't even mention spirits (hard liquor)! At the ABC I could pick up Smirnoff for $11 or Bacardi for $12. Here it would be $30-40 depending on where you go.

These are two extreme examples given our high excise, but most things are much more expensive.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 32): Then there is the cost of domestic flights on Qantas. My goodness

Actually other than transcon and intra-WA and NT, I think that the cost of domestic flights in Australia is very reasonable, especially on east coast hops. Recently there was a Canadian thread in which they were comparing the costs of domestic flying in Canada and Australia, and we came out very favorably. Further, in my experience unless you are in a hyper-competitive market such as NYC, LAX or MCO, the USA can be more expensive too!

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 34): I will remind you that during our recent (and continuing) economic problems, the two OECD countries that ... fared best were Canada and Germany, both relatively high tax and high regulation

Hate to nitpick, but #1 was Australia. We were the only advanced economy not to slide into recession during the 2008-10 crisis.

Please understand, though, that I'm not denying that Canada and Germany performed very strongly during the crisis  

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 36): Hate to nitpick, but #1 was Australia. We were the only advanced economy not to slide into recession during the 2008-10 crisis.

Point taken. Largely due to massive resource exports to China. Now falling and Oz economy weakening.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 35):

...and that goes to show how silly the whole monkey-see-monkey-do argument is. We can compare apples & oranges until monkeys can fly. There are so many variables as to why things cost a different price in different countries.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 32): Quoting melpax (Reply 31):Darwin, and most of Queensland north of Noosa are the same with the guy/girl ratio...... You're not just saying that to keep me out of Australia are you? If so that ratio is really sad.

Afraid not. It's got worse since the mining boom, a lot of guys have gone up to central/north Queensland to work out of the mines there. If you're not a miner with cash to splash up there, you won't get a look in. There are also large military bases in Darwin & Townsville.

Had a young guy working for me last year who was originally from Emerald in Central Queensland. It has become a base for a lot of the mining operations in the area, as it also has a big port. He, and his mates can no longer afford to live in the town they grew up in, as the mining companies have leased almost any available home for their staff to live in. Anything that was available was going for around $1000 per week minimum.....

You should come down here to Melbourne - plenty of attractive young ladies to have fun with down here! Much more happening than Sydney these days.   

[Edited 2013-08-21 06:28:44]

Quoting melpax (Reply 39): You should come down here to Melbourne - plenty of attractive young ladies to have fun with down here! Much more happening than Sydney these days.

If I was a little younger I might take you up on that !   But I'm 62 now and not about to change my personal life.

BTW, Air Canada apparently will start Vancouver-Mel n/s next year with 787s. Also Vancouver-Brisbane.

Quoting WarRI1 (Thread starter): I like the part where it takes an Australian worker 18 minutes of labor to buy 1 Big Mack, while a US worker has to work 34 minutes for 1 burger.

As long as the Fed keeps printing $85 billion in funny momey every month it will take a worker more and more time every month. But you want to blame the corporation.

Quoting WarRI1 (Thread starter): A workers paradise here in the US. I wish them all the luck in the world, they are going to need it in the US.

If we rid ourselves of the millions of illegal aliens maybe the workers bargaining position would become stronger.

Quoting dragon-wings (Reply 4): I say if they want higher wages then get a better job that pays more!

Bingo

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 5): A ton of full time workers here would just love to make 15 bucks an hour,

But thanks to Obamacare and the Obama economy 3/4 of all new jobs created are part time jobs. But you want to blame the corporations.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 7): That way, you can get rid of the ridiculous habit of having to tip everywhere.

yes...please

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 8): Take a look at the cost of living in Australia plus the immigration and labour policies there and you will see why they make $13+ hour

Bingo. Send the illegals packing and you will see an increase in wages across the board.

Quoting Mir (Reply 10): Which is fine, but the minimum wage hasn't kept up with inflation. $15/hour is unrealistic, but the idea of $9/hour, as proposed by Obama, is reasonable (only about a $1.50/hour increase)

And job growth will be even less.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 11): The good old global economy, send your jobs to slave wage countries, and then say we cannot compete when that country produces cheaper.

But you have no problem with all of the illegal slave wage earners that we have imported here?

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 22): Republicans aren't really conservatives, so comparing the GOP to a party that is legitimately fiscally conservative is pointless.

You are correct so why would we flame you. Which is why many of us have left the party. They have become Lib-lite.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 27): These workers just don't realize that if their pay were increased to $15/hour, half of them would be out of a job.

Bingo. Bring on a touch screen to replace them.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 29): ...and demanding $15 per hour to flip burgers isn't greed?

No....It is only fair..

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 34): If Ted Cruz or someone similar gets elected in 2016, very quickly there will be none.

As it should be as there is nothing in our constitution that gives the federal government the power to do this. needs to be taken care of at the state and local level.

Good luck to them. They won't get anywhere near what they're demanding, but any small increase would be helpful. Pay peanuts, get monkeys. People balk at paying unskilled workers a reasonable wage, but in an industry where reliability and good service matter, it's foolish not to pay a reasonable amount. In return, you can set exacting standards for behaviour and performance, and have a more motivated workforce who can also afford to feed and look after themselves and their families better.

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 37): Now falling and Oz economy weakening

Of course, I'm under no illusions about that. Indeed another poster recently criticised me for saying that our economy was stagnant and that the resources boom was over, suggesting that I was over-exagerating

Quoting windy95 (Reply 41): Quoting WarRI1 (Thread starter): A workers paradise here in the US. I wish them all the luck in the world, they are going to need it in the US. If we rid ourselves of the millions of illegal aliens maybe the workers bargaining position would become stronger.

More Mexicans, for example, are now leaving the US than illegally entering. Most see no economic future in the USA.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 41): Bingo. Send the illegals packing and you will see an increase in wages across the board.

See above.

The market is a funny thing.

I recently spent some time in Midland Texas, on business. In Midland, and the surrounding areas, business is VERY GOOD just now, in particular, in the oilfield sector. Every flat space is covered with motorhomes, fifth wheel trailers, and the occasional tent (there are way more people working than there are places to house them), and hundreds, if not thousands, of units of housing are under construction.

Starting wage for the most basic workers (the ones who work fast food, and the like) are around $18 an hour, and even those jobs are going begging.

For those of you who would contend that the minimum wage needs to be raised, I offer a stern challenge: speak to any small business owner, and asked them how many people they have working for minimum wage; I represent nothing but businesses which employ lots of people, and virtually none of them have minimum wage workers; if they do, however, almost inevitably, those who are making minimum wage are being overpaid for the value they deliver to the business. Anyone who, through reasonable effort and attitude, appears worth keeping is rapidly increased to greater pay, greater responsibility, and more training. While it is popular myth to write about these legions of minimum wage workers, they simply are not out there, at least not in any place (like here) where business is reliant upon people to do a reasonable job. It costs a lot more to replace and train people than it does to pay them a wage which is consistent with their ability and value.

---

I have a dear friend, one of the kindest people I know, who is absolutely convinced that every single worker in the country should be a member of the union, because if they were union members, they would all make more money, we would have a better way of life. Apparently, in her bizarre universe, employers can simply conjure up more money, to pay higher wages, with no effect on anyone other than the higher wages themselves. It's nuts, but when you get to do?

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 34): Cost of living in Oz is higher than US (as it is in Canada), but then look at the social services delivered by the government. Of which there are now relatively few in the US. If Ted Cruz or someone similar gets elected in 2016, very quickly there will be none.

It's a wonder us stupid Americans ever became the largest, most wealthy economy in the world without government services...quelle horrible!  

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 46): It's a wonder us stupid Americans ever became the largest, most wealthy economy in the world without government services

Except nobody called Americans stupid, apart from you, just then. Anyway, there are other measures of success, and not everyone has the large population you have in the US so it's hardly as simple as you suggest. On a GDP per capita basis you're far from number one, and there are plenty of other comparative measures besides that which produce mixed results. I'm not suggesting that the US economy is no good - far from it in fact. But claiming to be the largest and most wealthy is only half of the picture.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 42): Pay peanuts, get monkeys.

Wrong. You get elephants.

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 40): Air Canada apparently will start Vancouver-Mel n/s next year with 787s. Also Vancouver-Brisbane.

Sure those batteries can go that long over the Pacific?

Quoting melpax (Reply 39): Anything that was available was going for around $1000 per week minimum.....

WOW!
Just WOW!
Those are Manhattan prices!

Quoting melpax (Reply 39): You should come down here to Melbourne - plenty of attractive young ladies to have fun with down here! Much more happening than Sydney these days.

Thanks! I may take you up on that offer!  

Quoting seb146 (Reply 23): Assault, name calling, armed robbery

Those are not everyday occurrences (maybe name calling, but that hardly deserves extra pay/benefits). I worked in fast food as a teenager, and I never even witnessed an assault or heard of any robberies in the area. Those crimes were usually committed against gas stations attendants or corner store clerks.

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 24): The first rule in negotiation is to bid high, and then negotiate.

Totally correct...BUT, there's bidding high, then there's negotiating in bad faith. Putting forward an initial offer of a 100% increase in wage is honestly just insulting the intelligence of everyone involved.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 26): meat more girls

Intentional spelling mistake?  

Quoting Superfly (Reply 29): I knew a lady years ago that got her first job at McDonald's at age 16 in 1979. She stayed there her first few years in college and by the time she graduated (in 4 years) was already at the corporate level in her mid 20s. She has been working at their headquarters near Chicago for many years and is doing well for herself. Her an her husband & children lives in the very posh upscale north Chicago suburb of Winnetka. They can afford to send their children to the best schools as well.

The current CEO of McDonald's Canada started out as a fry cook at a McDonald's somewhere in upstate New York and worked his way up over the past 40 years.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 41): You are correct so why would we flame you.

Speaking from experience. I've been flamed mercilessly (on here and in person) by some of the more entrenched Republican voters for suggesting that they aren't true conservatives.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 41): They have become Lib-lite.

The reason they aren't real conservatives has nothing to do with left vs. right, it has to do with being obsessed with social issues and being fiscally hypocritical. The Tea Party might have actually done some good for the GOP is they had embraced more effectively (although the second the TP became a magnet for society's most unsavoury, they and their message were doomed).

Quoting Superfly (Reply 48): Wrong. You get elephants.