New Cadillac Concept Car: Elmiraj

srbmod · Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:27 pm

Cadillac offers another look at Elmiraj concept

Quote:
Cadillac took a step closer to producing a new large flagship vehicle for Cadillac with the introduction of the Elmiraj grand coupe concept.

The vehicle, which was shown to today in Ann Arbor after debuting earlier this month at a classic car event in Pebble Beach, Calif., exudes the “mid-century modern” feel Cadillac is embracing, advanced design director Clay Dean said.

The two-door, four-seat Elmiraj drew inspiration from the 1967 Cadillac Eldorado, leading to speculation that GM may introduce a high-luxury model priced above the current top-of-the-line Cadillac XTS sedan.

Is it just me or does this car look like they took the current Camaro, stretched it, slabbed the sides and turned the angles into curves? It's not a bad looking car, but to me it still doesn't look as good as the Ciel convertible concept they came out with (If they don't build something based off of it, Lincoln needs to borrow the idea.....).

Here's a more in-depth look at from the recent showing at Pebble Beach:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9haabb8EKc

DocLightning · Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:54 pm

Quoting srbmod (Thread starter):
Is it just me or does this car look like they took the current Camaro, stretched it, slabbed the sides and turned the angles into curves? It's not a bad looking car, but to me it still doesn't look as good as the Ciel convertible concept they came out with (If they don't build something based off of it, Lincoln needs to borrow the idea.....).

I don't like the new grille design that Cadillac is using. It reminds me of the Kennedy family's teeth: too big for the rest of the body.

Overall, it has this retro styling about it that I don't like. I know that the retro touches are supposed to invoke luxury, but to me this invokes obsolescence.

Dreadnought · Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:01 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
I don't like the new grille design that Cadillac is using.

I agree, the grille needs work. But generally I like it. And it seems that Cadillac has finally fired the designer that appeared to only use a ruler - great news.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
Overall, it has this retro styling about it that I don't like.

What don't you like specifically? The only thing I see retro about it is too much chrome, but hopefully you can option that out.

DocLightning · Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:47 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
What don't you like specifically?

The hood is really long. Too long for a modern car. The grille only accentuates it. The way that the rear windscreen blends into the trunk also strikes me as somethinig out of 1972. While our friend Superfly may love 1972, I'm not such a fan of the asthetic.

To me, the car looks like a concept car out of Popular Mechanics in the 1960's.

Dreadnought · Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:19 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
The hood is really long. Too long for a modern car.

I like a long hood. Not everyone wants a Mini. If Cadillac really wants to sell this as a luxury car, they would fit that V-16 engine they did a few years ago.

Tugger · Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:35 am

Here's a couple pics that help put into perspective.

This is a good comparison by Motor Trend between it and the Ciel

This is a good side view so you can really see the proportions.

I don't think I am a fan of the look from the rear.

Tugg

Superfly · Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:35 am

Neat car but I HATE the name!
What's with those cheap arcade game seats?
Bucket seats in the rear? How dumb is that?
Give the car a proper notchback C-pillar and a proper trunk.

Quoting srbmod (Thread starter):
Lincoln needs to borrow the idea

Lincoln went out of business when the final Town Car rolled off the assembly line in 2011.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
too much chrome

Not enough chrome.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
While our friend Superfly may love 1972, I'm not such a fan of the asthetic.

My favorite year for Cadillac is 1976.
This car has no similarities with the 1970s Cadillacs.

DocLightning · Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:35 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 4):
I like a long hood. Not

But the parking...

BMI727 · Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:48 am

Quoting srbmod (Thread starter):
New Cadillac Concept Car: Elmiraj

I'd have a hard time finding things about the styling I dislike. The Ciel works well without a roof, but the lesser bling on the Elmiraj is a definite improvement, but the front badge is too conspicuous.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
Neat car but I HATE the name!

They're giving a clue as to whom they hope buys it. It just needs a muezzin standing on the radiator grille.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
This car has no similarities with the 1970s Cadillacs.

And that's why there's hope.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 7):
But the parking...

Who cares? A car like that, if it hits production, will have the latest cameras, sensors, and other parking gizmos to help people out.

Superfly · Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:48 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 7):
But the parking...

Very easy to do.
My hood is longer than this concept car.

sccutler · Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:51 am

1976.
500 cubes.
5,700 lb.

Fleetwood.
Eldorado.
Cabriolet.

Cadillac.

Superfly · Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:52 am

Quoting sccutler (Reply 10):
1976.
500 cubes.
5,700 lb.

Fleetwood.
Eldorado.
Cabriolet.

Cadillac.

THAT is a real Cadillac!

MrChips · Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:57 am

From my understanding, this car hints strongly at what upcoming ATS coupe and the CTS coupe will look like, not act as a standalone model above or a complement to the dreadful XTS.

[Edited 2013-08-26 19:58:21]

WarRI1 · Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:13 am

Elmiraj ? What does it mean, The Mirage? I like the body lines, the grill, not so much.

[Edited 2013-08-26 20:14:57]

Superfly · Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:20 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 13):
Elmiraj ? What does it mean, The Mirage?

It's a weak attempt by Government Motors to sound exotic. I find it disturbing that in this era of alphabet soup nameplates, the one 'car' that get's a name is this Arabic sounding nameplate. This car will sale well in the Middle-East regardless of what name they give it.
Call it the Eldorado!

DocLightning · Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:38 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 8):
Who cares? A car like that, if it hits production, will have the latest cameras, sensors, and other parking gizmos to help people out.

Good point.

I think I figured it out. I really despise retro. I'm a modernist/futurist and even a brutalist at times.

If you like retro, this is a beautiful car. If you don't, this is a monstrosity.

I don't.

Superfly · Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:06 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 8):
They're giving a clue as to whom they hope buys it. It just needs a muezzin standing on the radiator grille.

Cadillac never had any problems selling their cars in that part of the world. They don't care about the name. They just like quality.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 8):
Who cares? A car like that, if it hits production, will have the latest cameras, sensors, and other parking gizmos to help people out.

People are so dumb now-a-days.
My car is 19.5 feet and I don't need no cotton-pickin' cameras, sensors, and other parking gizmos to help me out.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15):
even a brutalist at times.

Does that involve whips & chains?!?!?!

BMI727 · Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:07 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15):
If you like retro, this is a beautiful car. If you don't, this is a monstrosity.

It's not really retro though. It has a few old Cadillac styling cues, but not much more than that. Really, from any view other than the front, it looks more like if Jaguar made an XJ coupe than any production Cadillac.

trav110 · Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:50 am

That grille looks like it belongs on a Chevy Cruze, not this. The back looks pretty wonky too, but this is just a concept and with a few tweaks I think it'll look great. . I do like the solid lines the car has going down the side - gives it a strong yet elegant look to the car from an angle.

Tugger · Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:58 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 17):
It's not really retro though. It has a few old Cadillac styling cues, but not much more than that. Really, from any view other than the front, it looks more like if Jaguar made an XJ coupe than any production Cadillac.

Not realy seeing the "retro" either. It actually reminds me of a Mercedes S-class Coupe:

Tugg

comorin · Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:28 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 8):
Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
Neat car but I HATE the name!

They're giving a clue as to whom they hope buys it. It just needs a muezzin standing on the radiator grille.

Beats "Guido-mobile"...

Superfly · Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:45 am

Quoting comorin (Reply 20):
Beats "Guido-mobile"...

That name was never proposed thank goodness.
They should stick with Eldorado or maybe Biarritz.

mad99 · Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:59 am

It looks ok and not like everything else on the road .

During my last trip to California i noticed that the only american cars you see are the big trucks, big suv's and retro style cars. Looks like the am car builders have given up on the standard saloon .

Kiwirob · Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:07 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
The hood is really long. Too long for a modern car. The grille only accentuates it.

Only if you're thinking of transverse engined FWD cars.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
Bucket seats in the rear? How dumb is that?

Much more comfortible than a bench, the only advantage of a bench is you can fit 3 acress, who wants that in a coupe?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
Lincoln went out of business when the final Town Car rolled off the assembly line in 2011.

Damn better tell Ford to lay off all those who are building Lincolns this very mionute.

Quoting sccutler (Reply 10):
500 cubes.

And only 180hp, pathetic.

I like this car, it's the best looking Cadillac in decades, I hope GM has the balls to build it, they should also build the Ciel in limited numbers as well as a halo car.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 16):
Cadillac never had any problems selling their cars in that part of the world. They don't care about the name. They just like quality.

Cadillac hasn't built a quality car for decades, the only time Cadillacs were true luxury cars was pre WW2, they they build some of the best cars in the world bar none. I'd also bet that for every Caddy sold in the Middle East 100 Mercedes Benz roll out the showroom doors.

Aesma · Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:15 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 16):
Cadillac never had any problems selling their cars in that part of the world. They don't care about the name. They just like quality.

I think instead of quality you meant tackiness. Europeans like quality, and Cadillac doesn't even try to sell here (or maybe they do, without success, well I've seen a couple of Escalades, probably drug dealers).

I also like how the chief designer says that chrome is old school and they got rid of it, when I still see it (especially the wheels, again something you never see here).

PHLBOS · Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:20 pm

The big question here is will this car actually make it into the production cycle?

Not to be a doubting-Thomas, but I will believe it when I actually see it.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
Bucket seats in the rear? How dumb is that?

The 2002 Lincoln Continental Concept car that many of us (including me) believed should have been the Town Car's successor had rear-buckets as well.

I'm sure production variants of both the Caddy & Lincoln would likely have a more conventional rear-bench seats.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 23):
Much more comfortible than a bench, the only advantage of a bench is you can fit 3 acress, who wants that in a coupe?

I can't believe I'm actually saying this but there's more to a back seat than just *ah-hem* sitting.

Why do you think that American cars of old had more sofa-like seats? Think baby boom.

Kiwirob · Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:57 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 25):
I can't believe I'm actually saying this but there's more to a back seat than just *ah-hem* sitting.

Agreed I did plenty of that back when I was a teenager, even banged a few in my Mini, I think that's why Issigonis designed flip forward front seats, but lets face it this car isn't designed for young guys wanting to bang in the back seat, that's why pickups were invented!

sccutler · Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:13 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 23):
Quoting sccutler (Reply 10):
500 cubes.

And only 180hp, pathetic.

The mid seventies were not exactly the pinnacle era of automotive engineering; designers were still feverishly working on getting pollution-controlled cars to run at all, and the lion's share of heavy-lifting in pollution control was done by (gasp!) the US auto industry (with a none-too-subtle nudge from the California Air Resources Board).

At least mid-seventies American cars would start on a cold morning; many and many were the times we had to get out an old Plymouth or Chevy to push-start a Toyota or Datsun (Nissan, now) that just could not quite get their mojo flowing. They got better - everything did.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 23):
Cadillac hasn't built a quality car for decades,

That's just silly. You don't like them, fine, but they have built some very good cars, indeed. I've owned and driven several very good Caddies over the years, including a Deville which I sold to my brother in law at something close to 200,000 miles, and which he in turn sold on with well over 200k miles. We know it was still running a year or so later, as it was used in an armed robbery!

When my wife wanted a car a couple of years ago, it came down to a BMW 5 series or a Cadillac CTS, and the 5 won because, for an equivalent- age (2 years old) car, the BMW was quite a bit cheaper. Now I know why. It is very much the "driving machine" they claim, a real hoot, but the cost of routine repairs is breathtaking as well.

In any event, Cadillac has done well in the JD Powers ratings for dependability, which is meaningful.

Superfly · Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:34 pm

Quoting mad99 (Reply 22):
During my last trip to California i noticed that the only american cars you see are the big trucks, big suv's and retro style cars. Looks like the am car builders have given up on the standard saloon .

You need to visit the real America, not California. Plenty of American cars throughout the Mid-west.
Please stop referring to SUVs as cars.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 23):
the only advantage of a bench is you can fit 3 acress, who wants that in a coupe?

Three people that want to sit in the back.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 24):
I think instead of quality you meant tackiness. Europeans like quality, a

There he goes again.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 24):
Escalades,

We're talking about cars. Not SUVs.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 25):
I'm sure production variants of both the Caddy & Lincoln would likely have a more conventional rear-bench seats.

I knew from that concept that IF the car went in to production, it would have a proper rear bench seat.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 25):
I can't believe I'm actually saying this but there's more to a back seat than just *ah-hem* sitting.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 26):
I think that's why Issigonis designed flip forward front seats,

The old American cars you hate so much also have flip forward front seats.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 26):
even banged a few in my Mini

That's because you're a 'mini'.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 26):
this car isn't designed for young guys wanting to bang in the back seat, that's why pickups were invented!

Huh? Who wants to get busy on a cold, hard metal bed of a truck? A large station wagon would suit that purpose much better. Even better would be a conversion van.

Kiwirob · Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:01 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 28):
Three people that want to sit in the back.

Who wants to sit in the back of a coupe?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 28):

The old American cars you hate so much also have flip forward front seats.

The Mini was a 50's design.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 28):
That's because you're a 'mini'.

I wish!

Quoting Superfly (Reply 28):
Huh? Who wants to get busy on a cold, hard metal bed of a truck? A large station wagon would suit that purpose much better. Even better would be a conversion van.

Ever heard of an airbed?

DocLightning · Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:26 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 16):
Does that involve whips & chains?!?!?!

Only if you ask nicely.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 29):
Ever heard of an airbed?

They even make an airbed with two cut-outs to accommodate the wheel wells of a pickup bed.

http://www.aztrucks.com/product_appl...5&gclid=CK-gg9WSnrkCFcN_QgodwhYA4g

Superfly · Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:04 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30):
Only if you ask nicely.

Ok. Thanks for the heads up.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30):
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 29):
Ever heard of an airbed?

They even make an airbed with two cut-outs to accommodate the wheel wells of a pickup bed.

Cute, but that's getting in to the world of aftermarket accessories.

Aesma · Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:24 pm

I've traveled in the back of a BMW 840i (that is a coupé) and I was glad it had bucket seats, especially at illegal speeds on twisty Italian highways !

KaiGywer · Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:34 pm

Quoting srbmod (Thread starter):
Is it just me or does this car look like they took the current Camaro, stretched it, slabbed the sides and turned the angles into curves?

I didn't see that until you mentioned it, but now that you said that...I agree

Quoting tugger (Reply 5):
I don't think I am a fan of the look from the rear.

It reminds me of a dually.

Polot · Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:20 am

Nothing unusual about the name, it is how Cadillac has been naming most of their concept cars recently. First there was the Cadillac Provoq (the concept version of the 2nd gen SRX) then there was the Converj (concept version of the upcoming ELR). Elmiraj is just par for the course, in fact its name might hint that is is closer to being a reality than the Ciel is- no surprise as its design seems to be a refined version of that concept.

[Edited 2013-08-27 21:25:35 by SA7700]

Dreadnought · Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:21 am

I can't say I like the name very much, but they need to get away from these 3-letter names. They are stupid and mean nothing.

na · Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:47 am

Looks good. And much closer to a real usable car than any concept they made so far. Its clearly influenced by the big Merc S-Coupés but has less grandpa style (people in S Coupés are mostly 65+).
What I dont like is the grille. Too big, too much like a predator fish, too much like the new S-Class which also fails this way.
I love the upward curve of the sill that cadillac already did show on the Ciel. That something they should carry over to production cars. A production car based on this of course also needs some sort of bumper. Otherwise any little accident will be massively expensive.

Superfly · Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:11 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 35):
I can't say I like the name very much, but they need to get away from these 3-letter names. They are stupid and mean nothing.

I'm going to vote for Biarritz as the name Cadillac should use.
It's a nameplate they've had before for their coupe.

Quoting Polot (Reply 34):
Nothing unusual about the name, it is how Cadillac has been naming most of their concept cars recently. First there was the Cadillac Provoq (the concept version of the 2nd gen SRX) then there was the Converj (concept version of the upcoming ELR). Elmiraj is just par for the course, in fact its name might hint that is is closer to being a reality than the Ciel is- no surprise as its design seems to be a refined version of that concept.

So it may end up being the ENJ or E&J.

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