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Superfly
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RE: Outdated Car Style Features

Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:09 am

Quoting TSS (Reply 249):
I'm sure it's possible; The real question is would it be easier to swap out the entire steering column and steering wheel assembly rather than just the wheel and the associated wiring for the horn.

That's actually more precisely what I meant to say.
Bring back the Concorde
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Outdated Car Style Features

Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:30 pm

Quoting TSS (Reply 249):
Quoting Superfly (Reply 248):
I wonder if it's possible to put an 1985-1989 steering wheel in a 1979-1984 LTD/Grand Marquis and do away with the turn signal mounted horn.

I'm sure it's possible; The real question is would it be easier to swap out the entire steering column and steering wheel assembly rather than just the wheel and the associated wiring for the horn.

I believe that it would likely depend on the location point of where the wiring for the horn deviates from the earlier turn-stalk design to the later steering wheel hub design. If the wiring is the same throughout the steering column except at the end; replacing just the steering wheel and either relocating the existing horn wiring or splicing/replacing diverging wiring might be all one needs to do. Not to mention being a cheaper task.

In a Crown Vic. forum, there's a Tech Section that might shed some more light on the above.
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mad99
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RE: Outdated Car Style Features

Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:43 pm

Wood steering wheels.

Duel zone air-con feature (currently available but soon to die)
 
Superfly
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RE: Outdated Car Style Features

Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:19 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 251):
I believe that it would likely depend on the location point of where the wiring for the horn deviates from the earlier turn-stalk design to the later steering wheel hub design. If the wiring is the same throughout the steering column except at the end; replacing just the steering wheel and either relocating the existing horn wiring or splicing/replacing diverging wiring might be all one needs to do. Not to mention being a cheaper task.
Quoting mad99 (Reply 252):
Duel zone air-con feature (currently available but soon to die)

Really?
Why?
That is such a neat feature. I remember first seeing those on the 1991 Buick Park Avenue.
The Toyota Crown Royal Saloon I'm looking at has that feature too.
Bring back the Concorde
 
IH8BY
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RE: Outdated Car Style Features

Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:09 pm

Quoting mad99 (Reply 252):
Duel zone air-con feature (currently available but soon to die)

Soon to die? And be replaced by what?

Three of my last four cars have had dual-zone digital air con and my next one will have it too...
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zippyjet
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RE: Outdated Car Style Features

Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:45 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 150):

Another white elephant car feature I don't miss: On the Trunk key lock/hole especially GM cars had a little door you had to push aside to maneuver the key into the hole to open the trunk!. I remember Consumer Reports once said> "You'll probably find this on the next royal coach GM builds." Regarding that little cover. A pain in the you know what...
Another not lamented quirk, remote trunk release inside the glove box! Especially on a land yacht that defeats the purpose and on at least GM land yachts, you had to have the engine running to pop the trunk. WTH?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 209):

As others mentioned, the bloated 71-73 Mustangs were built on the same frame that was the Falcoln, Torino etc. Maybe if it was built on the Maverick platform...
I actually liked the looks of the Mustang II especially the 74's. I drove a 74 Ghia, the one year where it didn't have the over the top opera styled rear window. Not that it was ugly (75-78 Ghia's).

1974 was a strange bird of a year for a lot of things. The year of the three S's (Streaking, Shortages and The Sting) Car sales were record high for model year 73 but tanked in 74 due to the economy, gas crisis etc. So the honey I shrunk the Mustang rolled out at the perfect time. Sadly, this car didn't handle that great and fuel economy was a let down but they were cool looking and the 74's still look today in my book. Playing Monday Morning quarterback, Ford should have done the following with the Mustang.

The II now seems a bit tacky even for those times.
Ford should have paid more attention to the Celica at least performance wise and driveability. 5 Speed manual, more nimble response.

For 75 to 78 should have kept the 74 style Ghia and if they wanted to roll out an opera window mini me called it the Ghia/Grande De Elegance or Elegancia.

There were prototypes but it never made it a drop top Mustang II.

With the succeeding Fox platform, it should have gotten at least one decent sheet metal facelift and not jus the grille over it's way too long run. A sporty Fairmont.

Never gotten rid of the galloping horsey. What were they thinking?

Another interesting side note about model year 1974. The one year AMC seemed to make a killing/splash in the market with their Matador Coupe. Not a bad looker whereas that 4 door and wagon still looked like they hailed from the days of In Like Flint and You Never Live Twice. These cars were even fleet cars for the LAPD and featured in the 1974 Bond movie Man With The Golden Gun. Talk about the times!
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2707200X
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RE: Outdated Car Style Features

Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:18 pm

Curb Feelers      
"And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by." John Masefield Sea-Fever
 
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zippyjet
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RE: Outdated Car Style Features

Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:27 pm

Quoting 2707200X (Reply 256):

Half the JC Whitney catalog from anywhere before 1988!

How could I forget "swamp coolers for cars."

[Edited 2013-09-25 16:28:16]
I'm Zippyjet & I approve this message!
 
cptkrell
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RE: Outdated Car Style Features

Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:34 am

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 255):
I actually liked the looks of the Mustang II especially the 74's. I drove a 74 Ghia, the one year where it didn't have the over the top opera styled rear window

I guess I don't remember a Mustang II with an opera window. The notchback had a smallish rear quarter window running off the 'B' pillar from the beltline as per norm, but I wouldn't call this an opera window. Maybe they 'thickenned' the 'B' pillar on some models with a padded top to call it an opera window? Don't remember and can't seem to google an image.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 255):


Another interesting side note about model year 1974. The one year AMC seemed to make a killing/splash in the market with their Matador Coupe

Not trying to gloss here, but partner and self did the "slope nose" Matador for AMC when Bobby Allison was racing for Citi, then Warner Hodgdon's engineering company. It made a great-looking NASCAR racer. We designed and built the slope nose for pennies. BTW, the '74 Matador WAS a pretty neat car styling-wise, but suffered fron that "out-of-scale syndrome" that has been previously discussed.. If it where only about 7/8 or so in size, there would have been lines in front of AMC showrooms.

If you remember, the Camaro had a minor restyle slope nose (we called the headlight fairings the "sugar scoop" design and it required no unigue front fender retooling. It was an add on fiberglass part that capped and extended the lower area of the headlight "cans" and visually it changed the SV appearance. Of course, the front bumper and grille was unique to the Camaro to style with the extended lower portion of the "restyled" front fender.

With Jim Rader, thenthe the head of AMC Competition Programs, we noticed (over a few adult beverages) that the grille of the Matador had no "house-top" to its horizontal design and could be flipped upside down to allow a slope forward. No new parts numbers or redesign! Simply make two new lower grille mounting brackets. In plan-view and bird's view, the more forward mounted bumper worked perfectl. Again, just two new mounting brackets to extend the front bumper some (I forget how many inches). Actually they weren't brackets; they were band-saw cut aluminum extension pads mounted between the extended bumper face bar and the impact horns.

I remember taking a leak in the driver's head at MIS just after unloading the first car and Richard Petty stalled next to me and said something to the effect "You now tha' corrz nah' leggel'. Long story short, it WAS legal because we produced over 500 retro-fit kits and shipped them to the AMC dealers for install (NASCAR rules allowed back then). Allison had a modicum of success (and with other AMC models, also, but never got the big-time accolades).

Just an old-timey story from an old-timey guy. All best....jack

P.S. Between myself and associates, we have never been able to find in any publications, or online, photos of the slope nose Matador. I have design sketches, clay model and prototype photos from the shop but no pictures in action in race car trim. If anybody could provide with a link, I'd be perpetually thankful.
all best; jack
 
Skydrol
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RE: Outdated Car Style Features

Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:18 am

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 258):
P.S. Between myself and associates, we have never been able to find in any publications, or online, photos of the slope nose Matador. I have design sketches, clay model and prototype photos from the shop but no pictures in action in race car trim. If anybody could provide with a link, I'd be perpetually thankful.

Was this the year and type of AMC driven by Christopher Lee and Hervé Villechaize in the Man With The Golden Gun, which morphed into the airplane car?



LD4
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TSS
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RE: Outdated Car Style Features

Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:40 am

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 255):
Another white elephant car feature I don't miss: On the Trunk key lock/hole especially GM cars had a little door you had to push aside to maneuver the key into the hole to open the trunk!. I remember Consumer Reports once said> "You'll probably find this on the next royal coach GM builds." Regarding that little cover. A pain in the you know what...

Yep, when those covers were new they had a little nub cast into the base that held the cover open until you turned the key in the trunk lock. Unfortunately, the little nub tended to either break off or wear away with use.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 255):
Another not lamented quirk, remote trunk release inside the glove box! Especially on a land yacht that defeats the purpose and on at least GM land yachts, you had to have the engine running to pop the trunk. WTH?

I never fully got the thinking behind that feature either. I can only assume it was for hotel valet situations so you could pop the trunk with the car still running, get your bags and be on your way inside with minimal fuss.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 255):
As others mentioned, the bloated 71-73 Mustangs were built on the same frame that was the Falcoln, Torino etc. Maybe if it was built on the Maverick platform...

It was. Ford Falcon, Fairlane, Torino (through '71), Maverick, and Granada as well as Mercury Comet (3 distinct versions), Meteor, Montego (through '71), and Monarch were all built on different sizes of the same chassis as used on '65-'73 Mustangs and Cougars. Thanks to Robert F. McNamara's penny-pinching ways, no-one can say Ford didn't get it's money's worth out of a single basic chassis.

Speaking of Ford styling in the late 60s and 70s, I have a question for CptKrell: Did Ford have an unusual (for the time) number of non-smokers designing the ashtrays of Ford products? I ask because Ford produced some incredibly user-unfriendly ashtrays during that period, the worst being the ones on Fairmonts which were under the dashboard and flipped down instead of sliding outward making it almost impossible to hit with the business end of a lit cigarette without taking one's eyes off the road. On the Fairmonts it was, however, extremely easy to leave burn marks all over the section of the dash beneath the radio but above the curiously underslung ashtray. I've always wondered if this was a very subtly passive-aggressive "don't smoke while driving" message from Ford Motor Company.
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Max Q
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RE: Outdated Car Style Features

Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:00 am

Okay, here's a question about modern cars, why do hardly any of them not have an exterior handle for opening the trunk ?


That omission is incredibly annoying.
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mad99
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RE: Outdated Car Style Features

Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:22 am

Quoting IH8BY (Reply 254):
Soon to die? And be replaced by what?

My car has it too. Does it keep the right and left sides of the car at 18 and 19 degrees? No.
Maybe if you set it at 25 and 16 the two sides would be noticeable different.
 
Superfly
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RE: Outdated Car Style Features

Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:34 am

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 251):
Quoting Superfly (Reply 253):
Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 251):
I believe that it would likely depend on the location point of where the wiring for the horn deviates from the earlier turn-stalk design to the later steering wheel hub design. If the wiring is the same throughout the steering column except at the end; replacing just the steering wheel and either relocating the existing horn wiring or splicing/replacing diverging wiring might be all one needs to do. Not to mention being a cheaper task.

I quoted you and forgot to respond.
My concern now is the Lincoln Mark VI.
I love the 1980 Lincoln Mark VI Signature series sedan. I wonder if the steering column of the later 80s Town Cars could be swapped.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 255):
Another white elephant car feature I don't miss: On the Trunk key lock/hole especially GM cars had a little door you had to push aside to maneuver the key into the hole to open the trunk!. I remember Consumer Reports once said> "You'll probably find this on the next royal coach GM builds." Regarding that little cover. A pain in the you know what...
Another not lamented quirk, remote trunk release inside the glove box! Especially on a land yacht that defeats the purpose and on at least GM land yachts, you had to have the engine running to pop the trunk. WTH?

I like that neat stylistic feature. My car has it and the nub is still there and works perfect. I do recall these going out early on GM cars.


Quoting zippyjet (Reply 255):
1974 was a strange bird of a year for a lot of things.
Quoting zippyjet (Reply 255):
Another interesting side note about model year 1974. The one year AMC seemed to make a killing/splash

That was the year car manufactures were paranoid about seat beat warnings. When I was a kid, we had a 1974 AMC Hornet. The car wouldn't start if the driver was sitting in the driver' seat. You had to stand outside, reach in and start the car. My 1974 Lincoln Mark IV's 'fasten seat belt' light and buzzer would sound if I shifted my seating position. That happened a lot going around corners and over bumps.

Quoting 2707200X (Reply 256):
Curb Feelers
Bring back the Concorde
 
PHLBOS
Posts: 6520
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 6:38 am

RE: Outdated Car Style Features

Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:01 pm

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 255):
Another not lamented quirk, remote trunk release inside the glove box! Especially on a land yacht that defeats the purpose and on at least GM land yachts, you had to have the engine running to pop the trunk.

The remote trunk-release in the glove box for both my '76 LTD Landau and '85 Mercury Grand Marquis LS only required the key to be in the ignition (I forget if one had to turn it to Accesory or On to fully activate it). There were many times I was able to remotely open my trunk with those two cars without starting/running the ignition.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 255):
Ford should have paid more attention to the Celica at least performance wise and driveability. 5 Speed manual, more nimble response.

IIRC, the fuel economy of those Celicas was nothing to write home about for its size; it was probably similar to a comparable Mustang II. In 1978-79; many ads. for GM's newly-downsized mid-size car claimed better mileage ratings than the Celica.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 255):
With the succeeding Fox platform, it should have gotten at least one decent sheet metal facelift and not jus the grille over it's way too long run.

One needs to remember that Ford was already planning/developing its would-be FWD successor (but renamed as the Probe) in the early 1980s. Like the Panther platform that lasted into 2011, Ford originally didn't plan for its Fox platform anything to survive after the mid-80s.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 255):
Never gotten rid of the galloping horsey. What were they thinking?

   Agreed. IMHO, that was indeed a mistake. To Ford's credit it reappeared on the dash in 1989 (and remained there thorugh '93) and the '93 Cobra models brought it back on the grille. Note: most '79-'82 models had the horse on an emblem placed above the grille.

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 258):
I guess I don't remember a Mustang II with an opera window.

See the OP's pic. of the '77 Mustang II Ghia.

And compare it to the below-example of the standard Mustang II's coupes roofline and rear-side windows.


The standard and '74 Ghia coupe featured a slender B-pillar similar to those on the Torino & LTD 4-door pillared hardtops of the era whereas the '75-'78 Ghia's B-pillar was thicker (a la '75-'78 LTD coupes) and the rear-quarter windows were small enough to be viewed/referred to as opera windows by some.

Quoting TSS (Reply 260):
Quoting zippyjet (Reply 255):
Another white elephant car feature I don't miss: On the Trunk key lock/hole especially GM cars had a little door you had to push aside to maneuver the key into the hole to open the trunk!. I remember Consumer Reports once said> "You'll probably find this on the next royal coach GM builds." Regarding that little cover. A pain in the you know what...

Yep, when those covers were new they had a little nub cast into the base that held the cover open until you turned the key in the trunk lock. Unfortunately, the little nub tended to either break off or wear away with use.

Ford still offered such through '91 on its Crown Vics.

Quoting TSS (Reply 260):
I have a question for CptKrell: Did Ford have an unusual (for the time) number of non-smokers designing the ashtrays of Ford products? I ask because Ford produced some incredibly user-unfriendly ashtrays during that period, the worst being the ones on Fairmonts which were under the dashboard and flipped down instead of sliding outward making it almost impossible to hit with the business end of a lit cigarette without taking one's eyes off the road. On the Fairmonts it was, however, extremely easy to leave burn marks all over the section of the dash beneath the radio but above the curiously underslung ashtray. I've always wondered if this was a very subtly passive-aggressive "don't smoke while driving" message from Ford Motor Company.

The Farimonts/Zephyrs were one of the first cars on the market back then not to offer a cigarette lighter as standard equipment (my uncle's '78 Zephyr 2-door was equipped as such); so it wouldn't surprise me that designers were subtly devising ways to discourage smoking in cars. The anti-smoking campaign in general was in full-swing back then.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 263):
I quoted you and forgot to respond.
My concern now is the Lincoln Mark VI.
I love the 1980 Lincoln Mark VI Signature series sedan. I wonder if the steering column of the later 80s Town Cars could be swapped.

I submitted that question to a Crown Vic/Panther tech forum but have not heard back yet.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
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seemyseems
Posts: 451
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RE: Outdated Car Style Features

Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:20 pm

The interior locking system on my 09 Mazda, its the old style manual locks. Unlike our other cars when the locks just undo when the door is opened. Only slightly annoying thing about it though
seemyseems in ATL
 
iowaman
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RE: Outdated Car Style Features

Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:15 am

Even with my semi-fast connection it's getting tough to load this thread due to length. here is part two: Outdated Car Style Features Part 2 (by iowaman Sep 26 2013 in Non Aviation)

This thread will be archived.

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