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Flighty
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:02 pm

In case nobody said so, I want to add vacuums. We had a great GE vacuum from the 1960s. Its parts must have been all metal. It NEVER broke. It was quiet. The cord wore out, that's it. Literally 10 times the durability of today's vacuums. 50+ years no problem.

I also have a 14" electric fan made in Milwaukee IIRC. It is all metal, pulls a constant 85W, and would kick the ass of a Vornado or some other plastic fan. Not even worth talking about until you see what junk is sold these days.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 30):
As a mechanic for me throwing something repairable away is like surrendering.

Well said sir. Maintenance at its best means, _Maintenance_... not decay. Good machines can be maintained longer than any human being can live.
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:28 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 47):
Not sure what you mean by that but I prefer to remain on-topic with this.

I'm saying the that you're complaining about new appliances and how they don't seem to wash, compared to the old ones, in either time or "quality". Well, the environmental regulations have changed on appliances and made them much more environmentally friendly, and I see your whining about it as not wanting the more friendly appliances.

-DiamondFlyer
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fr8mech
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:48 pm

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 51):
Well, the environmental regulations have changed on appliances and made them much more environmentally friendly, and I see your whining about it as not wanting the more friendly appliances.

Frequently at the expense of quality and/or efficiency. Which means the appliance may need to be replaced/repaired more often which, in turn means that more resources are expended.

Very few things come without price.
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bhill
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:02 pm

Ha ha ..timely post..I just performed a "tub bearing and tub seal" replacement in a ...ahem..."Maytag Atlantis" washer...it ain't the Maytags I remember. $75.00 in parts...they DO have a 10 year warranty on the transmission. The appliance shop quoted me more than the cost of a washer to do the work...!!! And a $12 belt while I had it apart....As for the crud that builds up, I suspect it is because we do not use the phosphates we or our folks used to in our detergents, much less hot water.....toss in a cup of baking soda every other wash...fix ya right up.
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WarRI1
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:56 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 47):
Then go on Speed Queen's website add your zipcode and it will tell you which store near you have their laundry equipment. It is the best laundry equipment you can buy in the US today hands-down and has the warranty to back that up.

Thanks, I never gave them a thought.
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zckls04
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:01 am

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 42):
I'm not sure what to add.

Context, perhaps ?

I can't be bothered to research a fairly insignificant fact for the dubious benefit of some complete strangers, but I can be bothered to do some research into what I am buying when I am spending 10,000 dollars on new appliances.  
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sccutler
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:12 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 54):
Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 47):
Then go on Speed Queen's website add your zipcode and it will tell you which store near you have their laundry equipment. It is the best laundry equipment you can buy in the US today hands-down and has the warranty to back that up.

Thanks, I never gave them a thought.

I am tickled to have learned this, as well; wish I had known before we bought our last set.

I used to work on Speed Queen units when I worked for a chain of washaterias ("laundromats," to you Yankees). Speed Queen washers are stout, strong, durable, better than anything ever to come out of any foreign country.

And, I bet the plant uses union labor, too...
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zkojq
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:01 am

Quoting ImperialEagle (Thread starter):
Whats your experience?

All the large appliances in my family's kitchen are Fisher and Paykel. F&P is a reasonably good brand. Some of their products, such as the DishDraw, are incredibly innovate and all of their products are nice to use. Reliability is very good; until being replaced a month or two ago due to the kitchen being renovated (they were subsequently installed in one of the rental houses), the large appliances in my house have all lasted more than a decade. When they do have issues, F&P sends around a service guy who gets them going promptly.

After buying an Asko rangehood last month, we couldn't find either the screws nor instructions to install it. Once me, my parents and cousin had spent several hours installing it, the screws and instructions were found in the least logical place possible: wedged between the motor and the outer casing. Unfortunately this rangehood has an annoying rattle and is 4db louder than the brochure said it would be.

We still have a 30 year old F&P freezer in the laundry used to store fish or excess meat after a home kill. It has had at least two prior owners (uncle, grandparends). Still works perfectly, though it eats through plenty of electricity.

Only other interesting experience was a washing machine that caught fire ~15 years ago.

Quoting ImperialEagle (Thread starter):
Whats you're rant?

Stainless Steel appliances. They ALWAYS shows up finger prints. While Stainless Steel looks ok when new, it looks terrible the moment it gets even slightly dirty (just like the old liveries of American Airlines and Aeromexico, incidentally). Being somewhat of a perfectionist, I instinctively spend a lot of time polishing them each evening in an attempt to make them look right - but it never seems enough.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 50):

In case nobody said so, I want to add vacuums.

I find it frustrating that that very few (if any) new vacuum cleaners come with a reverse function. Ones that do are very handy for blowing up air mattresses, inflatable boats and pool toys.
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MD-90
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:31 am

Quoting ImperialEagle (Thread starter):
Speed Queen ( a VERY old American manufacturer of Washers and Dryers) is the only decent brand left being sold here nowadays. They still use steel internal parts, they are Made In America, and they have the best "from the factory" warranty in the business. They control their quality so tightly you have to get them through small independent appliance stores.

My mom has a Speed Queen and it's pretty nice. Doesn't hold a huge load but it washes fast and well and it's built like a tank.
 
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zippyjet
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:24 am

One of the best non-aviation threads so far this year! That's coming from the dude who never gets tired of would you hit it threads!

Time for a Zippyjet spin.

Dishwashers:
The Kitchen Aid Hurricane In a Box dishwashers excel because of their unique patented four way hydro-sweep four armed wash arm. Sort of like a large propeller. Though Whirlpool took over the Kitchen Aid name, many of their dishwashers retain the Hobart four way hydro sweep wash arm. Though they will never match the strength or superlative quality of Hobart's machines these are still a cut above the rank and file Whirlpool stuff. But, sadly due to the go green movement Kitchen Aid/Whirlpool is gradually phasing out the venerable hydro sweep dishwashers and replacing them with a conventional s shaped wash arm. If you must buy a new dishwasher I'd still go with the Kitchenaid but, make sure it is one of the hydrosweep models!

For dishwasher detergent Cascade recently came out with their Action Tab "Platinum" formulation and by golly these little pods kick ass and clean like the old school phosphate stuff! P & G, hit a home run with the newest Cascade formulation.
[img]http://www.automaticwasher.info/TD/AWJPEG/VINTAGE/2012/jend 9-1-2012-13-05-33.jpg[/img]
Please let me introduce to you what makes that Hurricane in a box!
[img]http://www.automaticwasher.info/TD/AWJPEG/MODERN/2012/zippyjet 12-25-2012-01-14-3.jpg[/img]
The classic wash arm in a Whirlpool produced machine.

Now, Whirlpool is gradually phasing out the classic wash arm for this:
[img]http://www.automaticwasher.info/TD/AWJPEG/MODERN/2012/zippyjet 12-25-2012-01-22-16.jpg[/img]

And here is a thread by your's truly. I don't post nor visit Automatic Washer like I do A-Net but it is a cool site nonetheless. Here is my thread regarding Kitchen Aid dishwashers.

TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?44144_4" target="_blank">http://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?44144_4

Actually there is now a market for the old venerable Kitchenaid by Hobart Dishwashers. Many are now restoring them and those hurricane's in a box will outlive us.

Now with Maytag. That old Maytag repairman Jesse White must be off balance in his grave. The beginning of the end for Maytag came in the mid to late 80's when they bought the god awful Norge company. I never liked Norge appliances. They were always fugly and were quirky. You either loved them or hated them. All of a sudden Maytag washers started looking like those ugly cheaper Norges and the writing was on the wall. And then Whirlpool bought them. However, the Maytag by Whirlpool washers are probably better than those Norge monstrosities.

Air Conditioners: My favorite stalwarts from the good old days of window a/c units were Fedders in the 50's and 60's with their Raymond Lowey designed "Weather Wheel" units. Many of them still cool like new even in torrid Baltimore! For slightly newer a/c units, the Friedrich A/C units from the 60's through 90's were legendary.

These Fedders units looked like the Good N Plenty candy box.
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6006/6006627872_d60f2322d1_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8141/7524505292_9dc0351dab_h.jpg
They looked like the Good N Plenty boxes and the Lucky Strike Cigarette packages.
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5275/7422885452_ea3cbd6430_b.jpg

These last two a/c units are both Friedrich's the former is from the 70's and the latter is from 1955. Many of them are still cooling today!
Maybe a little later I'll post my favorite classic TV sets and other appliances.

[Edited 2013-09-11 02:28:28]
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ImperialEagle
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:21 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 49):
I bought simple/basic Maytag washer and dryer in 2001
Quoting Revelation (Reply 49):
rather loud.

I wonder if they are the (Magic Chef produced) "Performa" series----actually a re-badged Magic Chef/Norge----because the Original "Dependable" Maytag series were VERY quiet. If you have an early set of Maytag badged "Performa's" that are still working there must be an appliance museum somewhere who would like to talk to you!

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 51):
much more environmentally friendly
Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 52):
Which means the appliance may need to be replaced/repaired more often which, in turn means that more resources are expended.
Very few things come without price.

Sounds like DiamondFlyer wants to start a thread on the "Environment".

Quoting bhill (Reply 53):
"Maytag Atlantis" washer...it ain't the Maytags I remember. $75.00 in parts...they DO have a 10 year warrant

The "Atlantis" machines could vary. Some of them tried new technology and the washer used two discs instead of a traditional agitator----with so-so results. They were real clothes-tanglers. Others were re-badged Magic Chef/Norges.

Quoting sccutler (Reply 56):
I bet the plant uses union labor, too...

I don't know if they do, I think they are still up in Ripon, Wisconsin.

Quoting zkojq (Reply 57):
Fisher and Paykel

They have not had a very good time since they were introduced here in the the late 1990's. They did not have an established service network and were not prepared for the American way of using appliances--------which is to push them to their limits on a daily basis.
By the early 2000's I could go to visit any number of F&P factory authorized repair shops and observe the growing "mountains" of dead clothes washers and Dish-drawers in the back-yard!

Quoting zkojq (Reply 57):
They ALWAYS shows up finger prints.

Black is even worse. Every speck of dust, grease, etc. I have a friend in Richmond with Black porcelain bathroom fixtures. Can you imagine keeping the sink clean?!

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 58):
Doesn't hold a huge load

Must be an older model as the newer ones hold a HUGE load! BTW SQ also has about 65 years experience manufacturing Front-Load Washers. As they go, theirs are VERY good machines.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 59):
is gradually phasing out the venerable hydro sweep

Because they have reduced the amount of water to the point where they can no longer drive the arm!------ DUH!
Government intervention at it's best. Better get used to washing your dishes with dirt, there's not enough water to clean them. (That's why the new dishwashers take two hours or so just to do a load.) Yeah, it uses somewhat less water and a WHOLE lot more electricity since it runs for hours. Which of those do YOU pay more for? My water bill is CHEAP!  
Quoting zippyjet (Reply 59):
They were always fugly and were quirky. You either loved them or hated them. All of a sudden Maytag washers started looking like those ugly cheaper Norges

That's because Maytag started to use the old Magic Chef (Tragic Chef) assembly lines to manufacture re-badged Magic Chef/Norge/Amana POS. It didn't take long for Maytag to trash their reputation selling these POS. All for the greed of their dumb-ass executive board.  
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
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zippyjet
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:59 pm

Because they have reduced the amount of water to the point where they can no longer drive the arm!------ DUH!
Government intervention at it's best. Better get used to washing your dishes with dirt, there's not enough water to clean them. (That's why the new dishwashers take two hours or so just to do a load.) Yeah, it uses somewhat less water and a WHOLE lot more electricity since it runs for hours. Which of those do YOU pay more for? My water bill is CHEAP!
Quoting zippyjet (Reply 59):
They were always fugly and were quirky. You either loved them or hated them. All of a sudden Maytag washers started looking like those ugly cheaper Norges

This is why people are holding onto and restoring those classic Hobart Kitchen Aid dishwashers. If I owned my own home, I'd be the first on the block to get a restored one. If you did not use the heated dry cycle on an old Kitchen Aid, the cycle took 30 minutes!
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ImperialEagle
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:08 pm

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 61):
This is why people are holding onto and restoring those classic Hobart Kitchen Aid dishwashers. If I owned my own home, I'd be the first on the block to get a restored one. If you did not use the heated dry cycle on an old Kitchen Aid, the cycle took 30 minutes!

I have some friends in the appliance repair business in the D.C. area. One of them has a Hobart Commercial unit that looks just like a regular older KAID (in SS) except it will do a whole load in THREE-MINUTES! You must, of course, then open the door, pull the racks out and let it air-dry.

You sure can keep-up with the party if you have one of those!   
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
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zippyjet
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:00 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 62):

True that but those machines use boiling water and super harsh commercial chemical detergents. I don't even think commercial phosphate Cascade is used. I could be wrong. And of course the water is so hot, drying is fast once you open that door.
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Type-Rated
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:39 pm

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 63):
And of course the water is so hot, drying is fast once you open that door.

It's called flash drying.

And let's not even get started on the Amanatag machines (model SAV series). Those were the worst of all for reliability. But even though they were sold in the 2001-2003 time frame I don't think any of them are left. They probably have all been junked by now.

The last of the Maytag "Jet Clean" dishwashers were great. But they stopped making them around 2008 and now they are just rebadged Whirlpool machines.

Zip, your comparison to the Good & Plenty boxes is so true. I never thought of it in that way. BTW, Good & Plenty is not available nationwide. I've only seen it in the east and upper midwest. And I miss it!
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zippyjet
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:01 pm

Quoting type-rated (Reply 64):

Raymond Lowey the famous industrial designer designed the Good And Plenty boxes along with the Lucky Strike Cigarrette packages.
http://www.die-neue-sammlung.de/press/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/09_8077-1985.jpg

By the way up till recently Fedders still made a version of their classic air conditioner in 7000 to 12000 BTU A/C units.

http://www.automaticwasher.org/TD/JPEG/VINTAGE/2013/zippyjet++5-29-2013-02-39-4.jpg

However, not sure how they'll hold up but window air conditioners are much lighter in weight than what we grew up with. I've even seen 10,000 BTU units that are as light weight as a 5000 BTU capacity unit.
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:03 am

I just wasn't aware that Lowey designed the Good N' Plenty and Fedders a/c units. He also designed the twin globes used in TWA's logo, he designed the shield for UA, he also designed the 1953 Studebaker Starlight Coupe, one of my favorite cars.


Big version: Width: 800 Height: 424 File size: 55kb


[Edited 2013-09-11 17:09:08]
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ImperialEagle
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:46 am

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 63):
use boiling water and super harsh commercial chemical detergents.

Oh, it sure does bump up the water temps. I live in a hard-water area so I like the commercial detergents. I still use good old regular Cascade. The newer formulaes are worthless.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 59):
"Weather Wheel"

They sold a Gah-Zillion of 'em in Florida back in the day. Great units. Miami had lots of heat/cool units.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 59):
Friedrich's

Oh, those were great. Turn a house into an igloo. They would also smoke the power-meter.

Quoting type-rated (Reply 64):
I don't think any of them are left. They probably have all been junked by now.

The spin-bearings would seize in about 12-16 mos. of regular use. Sometimes sooner! POS!
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WarRI1
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:17 am

Quoting sccutler (Reply 56):
I am tickled to have learned this, as well; wish I had known before we bought our last set.

I used to work on Speed Queen units when I worked for a chain of washaterias ("laundromats," to you Yankees). Speed Queen washers are stout, strong, durable, better than anything ever to come out of any foreign country.

And, I bet the plant uses union labor, too...

They are based in Ripon Wisconsin, as the Alliance Laundry Systems, formerly owned by Bain Capital. Ripon Wisconsin, the Birthplace of the Republican Party it bills itself. I am afraid that they are not unionized, but they are made in the US. When all else fails, (not made by union help) I go to anything made in the US. We have to pick and choose in life. I choose American jobs every time. I am glad to see I am not alone, trying to protect American jobs.
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WarRI1
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:55 am

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 67):
Quoting zippyjet (Reply 59):Friedrich's
Oh, those were great. Turn a house into an igloo. They would also smoke the power-meter.

Mine still does after 23 years, a great unit. I have to run it around eighty degrees to keep it from freezing my fanny. It is a split unit.
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MD-90
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:07 am

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 60):

Must be an older model as the newer ones hold a HUGE load! BTW SQ also has about 65 years experience manufacturing Front-Load Washers. As they go, theirs are VERY good machines.

I don't know what model she has but it's not as commodious as her previous Whirlpool $1000 wonder washer (top loader since a front loader won't fit in her laundry room). That piece of crap almost immediately had a recall for a defective circuit board and never worked as advertised.
 
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:35 am

Friedrich's were the most common air conditioner I saw all through the south going back to the 60's & 70's. Not only were they known for excellent cooling, but also for excellent dehumidification too.
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zippyjet
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:05 am

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 67):

They were big in Maryland, (part of the South). The Weather Wheel Fedders were abundant from the 1950's through mid to late 1960's. Friedrich's started to make inroads in the very late 60's and 70's. The mid 70's through late 80's saw a lot of crappy loss leader A/C's by Montgomery Lemon Wards, Emerson Quiet Cool and the GE/Hotpoint "Carry Cools" and the slightly upmarket "Fashionaire" units these were all plastic and took the hippo out of small to medium sized A/C units. But, if you wanted quality you had to pony up and go for a Friedrich. The Fedders Weather Wheel A/C units were big with the built through the wall under the window set. As a matter of fact my old apartment complex still had some of them still cooling as late as the early 90's! In NYC they actually call apartments Fedders Box's . There would be pre-cut sleeves for the a/c unit proclaming it was a Fedders. Sadly during the late 60's Fedders abandoned the Weather wheel for a cheaper version using a rectangular vent. Then in the early 70's Fedders jumped on the crapper train with generic A/C units maybe a tad better than the God Awful Montgomery Lemon Wards, Emerson brown Quiet Cool dreck and the el cheapo GE carry cool units.

And getting back to Hobart Kitchen Aid dishwashers, they featured a 1/2 horsepower motor whereas the rank and file dishwashers just used 1/4 horsepower motors. No wonder why those hurricanes in a box still outlast and outperform what's made today!

Back to A/C units the only thing I like better about today's units besides lighter in weight are the better thermostatic controls for accuracy. Now, unless you buy a bare bones 4000 BTU model you get a thermostat that actually is calibrated in temperature instead of the old time warmer-normal-cooler or numbers game from one to seven. Easier to set it and forget it. Also though the older units like the Fedders Weather Wheel and Friedrich units were built like tanks they had a noticeable temperature swing whereas even the Heirs, GE's and LG units are much more accurate for comfort. Today with Friedrich there are two lines. The lower priced ones are the made overseas whereas the higher priced units are mod looking and are made stateside (Friedrich's own design).



A timeless design and hot looking. A retro spin off would make a great revival of the Ford Thunderbird.
Did Raymond Loewy also design the iconic Pan Am "Meatball" logo?

[img]
http://money-hub.com/content/bigpics...r%20conditioner%20manual.jpg[/img] Though small sized check out the Fedders installation cover picture featuring a circle.
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ImperialEagle
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:36 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 70):
defective circuit board a

The WORST NIGHTMARE of new appliances. They are made as cheaply as possible in quantities so vast they cannot control the quality-----even if they wanted to----and they don't care!
One of my friends out in the field changed FOUR motherboards on a POS stove before he got one that wasn't defective.

Quoting type-rated (Reply 71):
ost common air conditioner I saw all through the south

Well, around Georgia there were a ton of Frigidaire, Kenmore, AirTemp, and GE units out there 'shakin windows. We had a couple of the Freidrich units at the funeral home, however the BIG BEAST hanging over the back hall was a Frigidaire. It would just about blow you down if you got directly in the path of the outflow. Must have had a 16" blower. Even on the hottest Atlanta summer's day it cooled the back hall, three offices, a clergy office, and both prep rooms (if the doors were propped open). The dorm had an old (Chrysler) AirTemp unit that would also freeze you out. Funny how I remember all of those, yet, in those days, in the deep-south, you quickly became friends with air conditioning however you got it! I remember when most of Atlanta was un-airconditioned---business and residences----it was miserable. If you drove a little bit outside of the city NOBODY had it! We used to do funerals in little old un-airconditioned churchs' that lasted for hours back then. We provided "Jesus fans" (or Moses fans) on a stick to try to keep the guests from dying as well. And to think the old-timers used to wear suits and heavy clothes in that weather!------Just like Florida!
Half the damned cars were black! What were they thinking?!

I think a lot of people purchased their "window-shakers" at department or tire stores, and appliance stores, where they could put it on account and pay it off over time. In those days the stores that offered credit were very user-friendly. I remember a lot of people got their first a/c units at the old Sears on Ponce de Leon ( I assume to be Whirlpool built units). Rich's department store sold GE's as did LOTS of appliance stores (Castleberry's sold a ton of them) and JC Penny (re-badged Penncrest). Hudson's Appliances in North Decatur and over in Little Five Points was Sharpe's and they sold Frigidaire by the train car loads. I'm sure Georgia Power and Atlanta Gas Light Companies also sold them. Atlanta Gas Light didn't even care how much you paid on it every month as long as you paid something. They would just put the sale on your monthly gas bill and that was that! They made a LOT of friends around Atlanta in those days. Many a poor family was able to get a washing machine for the first time the same way----a Maytag from Atlanta Gas Light. GREAT PR!

The big old GE units used to crack me up.You would see this huge unit that made a good bit of noise yet, didn't blow very hard at all however, the air from the out-flow poured out and dropped to the floor like liquid-nitrogen on a humid summer's day! It was funny as hell to watch and nobody could say a GE unit didn't put out cold air!

Quoting type-rated (Reply 66):
he also designed the 1953 Studebaker Starlight Coupe, one of my favorite cars.

The most impressive cars on this body IMO were the '58 Packard Hawks. I think they put out about 275 hp or so. Anyway, they were ROCKETS!  Wow!
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WildcatYXU
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:37 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 21):
And now we have a big Asian firm called LG that is selling their poorly built plastic crap. They don't even have a service network built-up here yet. I see people at the "big box" appliance stores buying LG crap and I cringe just knowing whats in store for them. Good luck! They will need it!



Well, I had a Goldstar (LG's predecessor) combo microwave oven in the old country. Best appliance I ever had and I was really sorry that we had to sell it when moving to Canada.
If the post merger company was able to keep Goldstar's quality, people buying LG products are looking at long years of problem free usage.
310, 319, 320, 321, 321N, 332, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 753, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, C402, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E45, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, MD82, Saab 340, YAK40
 
ImperialEagle
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:24 pm

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 74):
If the post merger company was able to keep Goldstar's quality, people buying LG products are looking at long years of problem free usage.


They didn't, and they won't. Call an Independent Appliance Repair service and ask them what they think. Time changes everything.
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
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zippyjet
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:28 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 73):

Imagine living in Miami/Miami Beach in the prehistoric era BA (before air conditioning)! My mom went to Miami Beach Sr. High in the late 40's and it was an open corridor school. Sort of reminded me of Walt Whitman High from the TV show Room 222. My beloved dad told me of his childhood when in the movie theatres: Big electric fans blew on blocks of ice!
Yes, and the creampuff cars of the day had 65 mph. A/C (windows open) and were black and had non breathable vinyl seats, usually black or some other dark color and all that chrome reflected heat. And ceiling fans were a necesitty not an exercise in retro style as they are today or at least when they were revived in the 80's.

DAD-NEWSPAPER-MOTHER-SEWING-KIDS-BOY-GIRL-REC.jpg" width="450" height="357" border="0"/>http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-TBFNvhTaFy8/TiPax8x3dOI/AAAAAAAABK8/LiKp84ZK1GA/s1600/IMG_1711.JPG
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8223/8331568049_7e236e8767_o.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8518/8347723675_25fdccf3cf_b.jpg


I get a kick out of these back in the day A/C units especially the add with "Zephitrol!"
I'm Zippyjet & I approve this message!
 
ImperialEagle
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:22 pm

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 76):
dad told me of his childhood when in the movie theatres: Big electric fans blew on blocks of ice!

Yes, I heard about that as well. By the time I came along they had those huge waterfall-on-slats units on the roof and froze you when you walked in the door. Burdines had the same kind of system.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 76):
And ceiling fans were a necesitty not an exercise in retro style as they are today or at least when they

My dad's mother was a fresh-air nut. There were those light metallic blue GE table fans everywhere. I don't remember anyone having ceiling fans at home but they must have! I do remember everybody got a/c before the 60's dawned-----except for old Aunt Elenore who lived at the Cadillac on south Beach. Even when we put a window-shaker in for her she wouldn't use it! She was one of the hard-core "old country" relatives of mine who had worked in New York for years and then retired to Florida without ever having had a car. Into her 80's she took the bus everywhere in Miami. Beat all I ever saw.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 76):
the creampuff car

Oh, I remember LOTS of cars in Miami in my early childhood without a/c. Most of them black. Packards and Buicks mostly. A turquoise and white '55 Bel Air. I don't know how my tiny mother's mother ever did it but she used to shlep us kids around in a Black '48 Roadmaster with no power anything! At least it was a Dynaflow. I remember all the places we used to go to shopping downtown and all those curbside parking places. How the hell she had the muscle to parallel park that thing is beyond me! That Grandmother traded that Roadmaster in on another one, a '55 and it had power everything! By the late 50's everyone had a/c in their cars as far as I recall. My favorites were the late 50's early 60's Cadillacs. I had numerous relatives with those and thankfully none of the ones used outside of funeral service were black! I loved the violet/white '60 Fleetwood my Uncle Herman had. What a tank!
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
racko
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:12 pm

Bought both a Miele washer and drier 12 years ago because my grandfather insisted on Miele, basically describing any other brand as throwing money out of the window. Haven't had a problem since.
 
nickh
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:59 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Thread starter):
Whats your experience? How long did your Mom and Dads appliances last?

My folks had an old Montgomery-Ward* refrigerator that they bought in the mid 1970s that worked flawlessly through many power spikes, outages, etc., and finally in 2006, when they gave it away to the gardner, he says that to this date (2013), it still works! He just had to replace the magnetic door seals.

Way back when (late 1960's from what I recall), while living abroad, my folks also had an old Electrolux refrigerator/icebox-type thing that was made possibly in the 1940's or something -- to give you an idea, it required a natural gas connection and had some sort of burner that ran hot air over the condenser coils -- I was a bit too young to remember the exact configuration or reason for the gas flame... But - the last time that I heard of it, back in the 1990's, the damn thing was still working, stashed at a relative's home!

-Nick
* Montgomery Ward obviously did not make their own appliances, like Sears, they were re-branded -- I think that, that "Monkey-Ward" 'fridge was made by Maytag. I remember helping to move the M-W 'fridge out of the enclosed space where it was installed decades ago and it had at least a 2-inch thick layer of dust/lint all over the condenser, compressor and blower motor/fan. And the poor thing still worked faithfully!
"We all have wings, but some of us don't know why..."
 
corocks
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:37 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 7):
What ever happened to the brand Thermador?

I got a Thermador Stovetop, Oven, Microwave, and Dishwasher about a year ago. Absolutely love them!
 
Max Q
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:45 am

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 73):

Well, around Georgia there were a ton of Frigidaire, Kenmore, AirTemp, and GE units out there 'shakin windows. We had a couple of the Freidrich units at the funeral home, however the BIG BEAST hanging over the back hall was a Frigidaire. It would just about blow you down if you got directly in the path of the outflow. Must have had a 16" blower. Even on the hottest Atlanta summer's day it cooled the back hall, three offices, a clergy office, and both prep rooms (if the doors were propped open)

Wow, good times..
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:34 am

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 60):
They have not had a very good time since they were introduced here in the the late 1990's. They did not have an established service network and were not prepared for the American way of using appliances--------which is to push them to their limits on a daily basis.

I don't see there being much difference between what a kiwi or aussie does with an F&P appliance than what an American would do with one.

F&P is now owned by Haier.
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:10 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 60):
which is to push them to their limits on a daily basis.

Left it too late to revise my above post so here goes.

How much extra abuse do US users give their whiteware? What makes Americans any harder on appliances than anyone else, I have 3 kids they probably make as many dirty clothes as any American kid, probably more since they are very active, play a bunch of sports and get dirty on a daily basis. My wife's Electrolux front loading washer and condenser dryer run 1-3 times every day and have been running without fault for 7 years. As for our other hard working appliance the dishwasher this runs at least twice daily, with all the takeaways and precooked meals Americans eat do they really generate enough dishes to fill a washer on a daily basis? I'm not sure what the longevity of our Siemens kitchen appliances will be, we only rebuilt the kitchen last year, in the past 12 months I estimate the dishwasher has done at least 500 cycles without fault and cleans everything spotlessly.
 
ImperialEagle
Topic Author
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:45 am

Quoting racko (Reply 78):
12 years ago

There you go! You won't get that with a new one!

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 83):
7 years.

There you go. Not 2 years old. There really is a difference.
In the US laundry equipment is horribly abused. People are careless. Don't care or have any real idea how to properly launder their clothes. Out of laziness ditzy housewives will just PACK the machine full of clothes add double the amount of detergent turn the dial until something happens and walk away. Pretty much the same for the dryer. The motors in the F&P products are direct-drive and reversing and were not built to handle the level of stress American's dish out.

Many years ago Sears had Whirlpool build an agitator for their Kenmore machines that had the typical occillating
base with fins and a large cork-screw looking auger on top to literally shove the clothes down to the bottom. That way the public could overload the machines to their hearts content and the clothes would roll-over and still got clean-----even if a tad worn from all the aggressive action.

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 83):
the longevity of our Siemens

Good luck with that.
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:26 am

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 84):
There you go. Not 2 years old. There really is a difference.

7 years as per what you quoted not two.

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 84):
Good luck with that.

I'm not worried my mother in law has a 30+ year old Siemens dishwasher that's still going strong.
 
ImperialEagle
Topic Author
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:28 am

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 85):
30+ year old Siemens dishwasher

Yeah, well if they made the new ones like they did the old ones there wouldn't be any use for a thread like this!
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:06 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 86):
Yeah, well if they made the new ones like they did the old ones there wouldn't be any use for a thread like this!

Yeah but people also dump the old ones which are still working properly because they are energy hogs and generally very loud. If they also built them like they used to build them we couldn't afford them.

I'm sure when auto washers first arrived many women though the mangel was the mutts nuts, men were good enough at washing dishes who needs a dishwasher, let alone using a machine to dry clothes when mother nature can do a pretty good job.

If I get 15 years out of an appliance I'm happy, I don't want some noisy 40 year old lump of metal in my laundry or sitting in my kitchen. I think in my age group and those younger this is probably the way most think.
 
AA757MIA
Posts: 262
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:30 pm

A week ago, I bought a 3 year old (I remember when she bought them) GE washer/dryer set from a friend.
Both worked just fine the first time, now the dryer does not work, well it does, but, for some reason it starts/stops, unless I hold the start button.

After some research online, it looks like it may be either the motor or the electronic board, I haven't had time to look into it further, but if it is indeed one of them, it's going to be a $200+ repair, almost as much as I paid for the set...
 
ImperialEagle
Topic Author
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:52 pm

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 87):
they are energy hogs and generally very loud.

I strongly disagree. Although, I would say the diswashers were louder because they used a tad more water and really worked. An old "center-dial" Maytag is still one of the quietest washing machines out there and the newest one is about 1979----thousands of 'em still going strong. A stove is a stove is a stove. Refrigeration is using somewhat less electricity with improvements in insulation as well. A clothes dryer is still just a hair-dryer in a box with a revolving drum.
The electronic "mother boards" of the new stuff are ridiculous crap.

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 87):
I think in my age group and those younger this is probably the way most think.

I think you are right.

Quoting AA757MIA (Reply 88):
the electronic board,

Throw it out and buy a Speed Queen. They have the best quality and warranty in the business today.
Go on their website and put in your zip code and they will tell you who in your area stocks them.
Poorly manufactured electronic mother boards are killing us! There are thousands of technicians out in the field every day that have to install two or six of them before they get one that works right. Ridiculous. Thanks, China!
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
cptkrell
Posts: 3186
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2001 10:50 pm

RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:54 pm

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 65):
Raymond Lowey the famous industrial designer designed the Good And Plenty boxes along with the Lucky Strike Cigarrette packages.
Quoting type-rated (Reply 66):
I just wasn't aware that Lowey designed the Good N' Plenty and Fedders a/c units. He also designed the twin globes used in TWA's logo, he designed the shield for UA, he also designed the 1953 Studebaker Starlight Coupe, one of my favorite cars.

...as well as the Air Force One livery, still unchanged to this date.

But, back to appliances. Over the years we have had good luck with the Maytag brand for washers and dryers but wifey recently sprung for matching LG Steam Washer and True Steam Dryer, so I hope that some of the previous questionable reliability comments don't manifest themselves for us. I don't know the capacities, but these damn things are about 54" tall, really carry a load and really work fantastic (of course, they're new). She loves the giant front-loading feature...I don't do laundry, so I don't care   .When we built the house some 6 years ago we got new LG flat screens (perfect so far) and LG Fridge (perfect so far) and LG freezer chest (perfect so far). The ice maker is Kitchen Aid (perfect) as well as the ovens, although a surge protector didn't protect and one of the oven's mother board got fried in a thunderstorm (insurance took care of that, though). I am hoping never to have to make another appliance purchase...but I guess that's just wishful thinking on my part. kind regards...jack
all best; jack
 
PPVRA
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:50 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 60):
Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 52):
Which means the appliance may need to be replaced/repaired more often which, in turn means that more resources are expended.
Very few things come without price.

Sounds like DiamondFlyer wants to start a thread on the "Environment".

Like having to re-wash dishes or clothing because you're using High-Efficiency "environmentally friendly" machines.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
ImperialEagle
Topic Author
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:48 am

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 90):
matching LG Steam Washer and True Steam Dryer

Oooh. Good luck with that. Hope you bought all the extended warranty you could get!

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 91):
Like having to re-wash dishes or clothing because you're using High-Efficiency "environmentally friendly" machines.

Yeah. Where's the savings when you have to do everything twice? Maybe the "green" people can scrub them with a little dust and get them clean.   
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
mirrodie
Posts: 6796
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:10 pm

wow, great thread that hits a nerve with quite a few here that are fed up with our disposable society!

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 16):

If you want appliances that will last forever buy Gaggenau, if you have stupid amounts of money to spend buy AGA, Electrolux Grand Cuisine or Molteni. There are two reasons to dump old working appliances, first is they don't fit in with modern design and the second is they use huge amounts of electricity, significantly more than modern appliances.

We're just moving into our probably forever home. I'll have to look up Gaggenau. What about other brands I haven't really seen mentioned here, such as Viking JennAir and Subzero? Just wondering.

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 21):
Well, I wish all of ya'll well in the future because the new stuff sold here in the US is crap for the most part and Americans are dumb enough to just take it without protest.
Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 21):
What the customer is now discovering is that there is no point in buying a more expensive unit because the added price no longer buys a higher level of quality.

Can be said of a lot. Honestly, we bought a Honda and its been nothing buy quality issues. From here on it, I'd rather buy a solid American brand.

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 33):
To save tons of money the ads go, use cold wash and cold water detergent and you will save hundreds of dollars a year in laundry costs.

That is the WORST possible advice they could give you and they don't care.

ALWAYS wash fabrics in as hot a water as they can stand. Use chlorine bleach such as Clorox on all whites. This is the best way to eliminate the dreaded black jelly and all the associated odors. The bonus is that your clothes will be MUCH cleaner. Use a cold rinse if you like, but only in the summer. You should use a warm rinse in the winter when the water coming from the cold water pipe is too cold to do a good job of rinsing---especially towels, jeans and heavy fabrics. I have a friend in appliance repair that refers to the cold wash/cold rinse setting as the "trailer" setting. The inference is that only trashy people would ever use that setting.

Just wondering but where do you get this?^^ In other words, how did you arrive to come to that advice?^^^ interesting trailer comment.
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
Superfly
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:51 pm

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 76):

We had a similar air conditioner when we lived in SoCal. Our original air conditioner that came with the place when it was built in 1962 blew very strong & cold. It finally went out in 1993 at 31 years. The new one didn't blow as cold and took forever to cool off the room. Being more quite really wasn't much of an advantage since I had to run a fan as well to help circulate the air. The utility bill didn't go down because it had to stay on 24/7 to keep the same temperature. The older unit would shut off once the desired temperature was reached.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 68):
They are based in Ripon Wisconsin,

Birthplace of the Republican Party.

Quoting mirrodie (Reply 93):
wow, great thread that hits a nerve with quite a few here that are fed up with our disposable society!

Count me in as one of those fed up!

Quoting mirrodie (Reply 93):
Honestly, we bought a Honda and its been nothing buy quality issues. From here on it, I'd rather buy a solid American brand.

You should have kept your Buick.  
Bring back the Concorde
 
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casinterest
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:15 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 94):
Quoting mirrodie (Reply 93): Honestly, we bought a Honda and its been nothing buy quality issues. From here on it, I'd rather buy a solid American brand.You should have kept your Buick

Oh, hell to the no.
I have had Honda's and I have had a buick. I drove 2 Hondas to 200,000 miles with minimal normal MTC. I had to replace the Intake Gasket, wheel Bearings, and all 4 Electric Window motors on the Buick. Don't even get me started on the Ford that I had.

=============================

To the point of this thread though, I do think it is too easy to get rid of easily repairable devices, but I think part of the blame lies in people and part lies in the manufacturers. I can't tell you how many Whirlpool Ice Maker's are broken due to a 2 cent plastic timer clip. Then it costs 80 bucks for a new assembly, and 100 bucks for the repair guy for those that have no time to do it themselves. Due to Warranty issues, many people just say to heck with it and buy a new one. I will repair mine if I can. The devices themselves these days have strong efficient motors and designs, but it is the electronics and plastic parts that will always fail first. If you like to troubleshoot, things can be fixed. But with the cheapness of many devices, a lot of people just go get new ones.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
oly720man
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:50 pm

Rant on.....

My parents have a top loading washing machine of some American make. A while ago they were driven beyond distraction by a problem with it and the "support".

It leaked. One day there was a puddle on the floor.

So, since they had a service agreement, they phoned for the engineer to come and see it, which he did a couple of days later. He had a look and diagnosed a list of parts that needed replacing and that would need to be ordered from the US, taking many days when they couldn't use the washing machine.

In the meantime they asked me to have a look at it. Yes it leaked, and on tracing the leak back it was, in fact, the flexible hose connecting the drum to the pressure switch that had snapped, so when the drum filled it then dripped over the floor when the water reached the level of the hole. This flexible hose was obviously (after the fact) just long enough to reach the pressure switch, but with the shaking around of the drum it eventually gave up.

Problem solved in a couple of minutes with a new length of tubing.

Cue many pissed off emails and phone calls about incompetent service engineers, etc, that were immediately rebuffed with the standard, "our engineers are very well trained" blah blah blah.



Rant off
wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
Superfly
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:56 pm

Speaking of people throwing away stuff over minor things. I remember several years ago, my Dell Dimension needed some parts. There were some old files I had on 3&1/2 floppy disk and I wanted to transfer to my hard-drive.
Well thanks to a lot of people in San Francisco that likes to throw out old computers & stuff on the sidewalk, I found the same Dell computer on the sidewalk just a few houses down and it had a 3&1/2 floppy disk drive. I took it in to my place and added the 3&1/2 floppy disk drive. The computer had a virus but thanks to a fellow Airliners.net member, he was able to clean out that entire virus.
Once the virus was cleaned out, we found some amazing photos of my neighbor.  
I never formally met her but I did see her from time to time on the train.

Thanks again Confucious! 
Bring back the Concorde
 
andz
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:42 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Thread starter):
How long did your Mom and Dads appliances last?

I didn't read the whole thread but my parents have a side by side GE fridge/freezer that they bought in November 1974 and neither has left the kitchen since the day they were installed (fridge and freezer, not parents!).

Still working perfectly. As a GE employee that makes me proud.

Here we have a local brand called Defy, we still have a couple of their appliances I bought just before getting married in October 1984.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
ImperialEagle
Topic Author
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RE: Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US

Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:40 am

Quoting mirrodie (Reply 93):
look up Gaggenau. What about other brands I haven't really seen mentioned here, such as Viking JennAir and Subzero? Just wondering.

Oh Gaggenau has PLENTY of issues----just like most of the other brands of new crap, the lack of quality electronic circuit boards is killing them. Jenn-Air was swallowed-up by Maytag before they themselves were swallowed-up by Whirlpool.


[quote=mirrodie,reply=93] how did you arrive to come to that advice?^^^ interesting trailer comment.

Experience in restoration as well as close friends in both the appliance and repair business.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 95):
Whirlpool Ice Maker's

All the US made icemakers come from one source. The individual manufacturers just pop them in and out as needed.

Quoting oly720man (Reply 96):
incompetent service engineers,

They either have sworn allegiance to a certain brand----because they are a factory authorized dealer, or maybe they work for an appliance store that only sells that brand. An independent service person is usually a bit older and much more experienced especially with machines that were the pre-crap era. They actually know HOW to repair a machine. The newer younger ones usually only know how to coax money out of you by charging for useless parts and services or they just tell you to go out and buy new because they want to get on to their next appointment or they just plain don't know how to work on your old machine, assume you just fell-off-of-the-turnip-truck, and they tell you any old thing they think you might believe just to blow you off.

Too bad. In another 10 years or so all the old-timers will be dead or retired and the new guys will be clueless when it comes to the old machines. The newer machines are all throw-outs anyway.

Quoting andz (Reply 98):
Still working perfectly. As a GE employee that makes me proud.

Yes, like many other manufacturers, years ago they really did know how to build a quality appliance. Most of us here in the US thought it was normal for a refrigerator or freezer to last 30 years or more. Now we are lucky to get 30 months. GE still makes a decent stove-----but-----you better get all the extended warranty you can buy because of the damned circuit-boards! GE killed their washers and dryers years ago by cheapening the product and trashing a tried and true design.
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"

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