Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
| Quoting alberchico (Reply 9): If he was driving without a license that will hurt him in any civil litigation... |
| Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 48): That's OK if it's the right people. |
| Quoting cmf (Reply 51): How do you guarantee it is the right people? |
| Quoting AF1624 (Reply 53): I see a lot of angry comments here against motorcycles and motorcylists in general. |
| Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 52): Like I said, by shooting the bastard who tries to break into your car. |
| Quoting cmf (Reply 55): You think you will be able to shoot 200 before they shoot you. Not a chance. |
| Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 58): Of course you can't shoot 200 people. That's not how deterrence works. None of those 200 bikers want to be the ONE who gets shot in the face when they come bang on your window. Which would be something to consider if people were legally permitted to carry weapons to protect themselves (and a substantial number of people did so). |
| Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 56): Mieses was sentenced to jail in 2004 for distribution of cocaine, in 2001 for operating without a license, in 2000 for possession of a firearm, and in 1999 for possession of marijuana, receiving stolen property, destruction of property and attaching plates, according to court records. |
| Quoting cmf (Reply 59): Considering the number of assaults and robberies in states where you can carry in public it does not seem the deterrent effect is significant. |
| Quoting alberchico (Reply 63): Now it turns out there may have been undercover cops riding with the bike group that day but did not get involved as to not blow their cover. |
| Quoting alberchico (Reply 61): Gloria Alfred is now probably cursing having taken him up as a client. No way in hell is this guy getting any compensation ... |
| Quoting alberchico (Reply 65): If you take a close look at this new pic it shows the tire was already slashed and fully deflated when the attack began. |
| Quoting mham001 (Reply 67): |
| Quoting Mike89406 (Reply 68): There were 5 undercover officers that rode with the group but didn't do anything to protect they're cover. |
| Quoting Mike89406 (Reply 68): "This man with a Range Rover and luxury lifestyle %u2014 it's OK for him to do something to someone because he rides a bike or has tattoos?" she said. |
| Quoting dragon-wings (Reply 71): I was watching a local morning news program (PIX11) and they had a interview with one of the bikers that was riding that day. He said they blocked in the SUV because before this video he (the SUV driver) hit one of the bikers and they were trying to get info from him and trying to prevent him from leaving the scene. |
| Quoting ltbewr (Reply 73): If the RR driver just let the bikers past him all this would have been prevented but it wouldn't stop their violence. |
| Quoting ltbewr (Reply 73): those officers will face punishment for their too deep involvement with criminal activity in the gang. |
| Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 74): Why do you think that? |
| Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 23): This. Both for bicyclists and motorcycle riders alike. |
| Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 21): was at a Four-Way Stop type intersection in Atlanta last week and people on bicycles were sailing right through the Stops with total abandon. WTF? |
| Quoting cmf (Reply 76): Probably because they passed a lot of other cars without stealing them and leaving the driver bleeding or dead on the side of the road and his wife and kid kidnapped, or worse. |
| Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 78): Did Lien know this? How? You seem not to have watched the video. He was not bothering the gang. They could have simply ridden on by. They intentionally "checked" him, causing an accident and initiating the conflict. Even without his family in the car, he is entitled to defend himself from what was clearly a bunch of outlaws. With his family, even more so. |
| Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 78): I think your sympathies are very much misplaced. |
| Quoting cmf (Reply 79): Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 78): Did Lien know this? How? You seem not to have watched the video. He was not bothering the gang. They could have simply ridden on by. They intentionally "checked" him, causing an accident and initiating the conflict. Even without his family in the car, he is entitled to defend himself from what was clearly a bunch of outlaws. With his family, even more so. Since you know exactly what happened why don't you tell us why they picked him and not any of the many other cars that were out that day. |
| Quoting Redd (Reply 82): I'd be curious to hear you elaborate on your opinion. |
| Quoting mham001 (Reply 83): Neither are the asshat bicyclists I routinely come across in San Jose, I ride here daily. |
| Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 8): I wonder if the bikers would have been so 'badass' in this case had they perceived a reasonable potential for the driver to be legally armed. Thanks to the laws in a place like NYC, thugs can be pretty certain that any 'law abiding' types are easy picking. (Edit: Not my intent to start a gun debate but something to think about. That guy in the SUV must have felt pretty helpless, with his family at risk besides.) |
| Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 56): Edwin Mieses, 32 |
| Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 60): I never said that "pointing a 9 in someone's face" wouldn't get them to back off, but there are what, 200 of them? Odds are when a firearm goes off one or two of them will start unloading at the SUV. You saw how many of them there were, how are you gonna defend against those that have a weapon unless you have ninja observation skills or just started to shoot them all indiscriminately? You're gonna run out of bullets faster than you can pick them off and they'd eventually chase you down and probably kill you. I'm not arguing against guns and self defense, I'm just saying in this situation it probably would have worked in this case. But let's face it, pretty much nothing would have worked. It's a lose lose lose situation, the victim should be happy that he's alive and his family was unharmed... it could have easily ended up in a triple homicide. Wonder how the NYPD will respond, this is obviously unacceptable, but how to prevent it? Motorcycles can easily evade police unless you go through some crazy measures like helicopter chases. A half way decent motorcyclist is much more maneuverable than a patrol car |
| Quoting dallasnewark (Reply 89): If it was my family in the SUV, I would not have an issue with using my weapon to protect my family |
| Quoting dallasnewark (Reply 89): This type of stuff would have never happened in places outside of New York, Chicago or San Francisco. These thugs no that people do not have the weapons in the car with them to protect themselves. If it was my family in the SUV, I would not have an issue with using my weapon to protect my family, but I live in Dallas and stuff like that doesn't happen here, those thugs are aware that ordinary citizens may carry a weapon. I know some of you will try to label me as a gun nut, but I could care less. If the man can't protect his family, he is useless. |
| Quoting Mir (Reply 91): Your call, but you'd likely be opening yourself up to getting shot as well. -Mir |
| Quoting dallasnewark (Reply 90): Most likely answer is yes since the undercover cop was partaking in a crime. Those 2 cops that rode with them should be fired immediately and face criminal charges |
| Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 94): You don't know that. What was illegal here? Brake checking, blocking traffic, assaulting people, etc. The cops could have very easily rode with the bikers without clogging traffic or beating up people. Maybe the cops did break the law, but you or I don't know that. Just riding along isn't illegal |
| Quoting dallasnewark (Reply 93): Those were not real bikers, but wannabe thugs and chance of them carrying the weapon are not great. |
| Quote: "These types of incidents unfairly give us a bad name," George Christie, who led the Ventura, Calif., chapter of the Hells Angels for 35 years, said. "They are not an example of what we stand for." ... "I don't have any respect for people who don't know how to ride in a proper formation on the highway," said Angel, the former rider who only gave his first name for the report. "You also don't chase and beat up a man in front of his family. They're a bunch of cowards." |
| Quoting dallasnewark (Reply 95): However, when assault began, the off duty police should not have been an innocent bystanders in all of that. They should be charged with the felony here, they cannot just stand and observe the other guy getting the living daylights beat out of him. |
| Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 97): While I agree they should have intervened, do you have proof this was a crime? How close were the undercover officers? Did any help after the camera was cut off? I can very easily see the undercover cops getting in trouble, but you are going off on a limb without knowing all the information. You could be spot on or very very wrong |
| Quoting dallasnewark (Reply 98): |
