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Braybuddy
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:37 pm

Quoting alberchico (Reply 9):
If he was driving without a license that will hurt him in any civil litigation...

This is where I have nothing but admiration for the US in the way it frames its laws. Makes total sense. If that were to happen here I have no doubt the biker would take the driver to the cleaners.

Must have been terrifying for the SUV driver and his family.
 
cmf
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:58 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 48):
That's OK if it's the right people.

How do you guarantee it is the right people?
How about if it was everyone in the car and several bikers? How is that better than what happened now?
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:31 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 51):
How do you guarantee it is the right people?

Like I said, by shooting the bastard who tries to break into your car.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
AF1624
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:38 pm

I see a lot of angry comments here against motorcycles and motorcylists in general.

Whilst I can absolutely no defend the behaviour of the motorcyclists involved in this event - I have to point out that not all of us motorcyclists are squids, mindless dangerous idiots in short.

Please don't disrespect a population as whole just because individuals in it, however many they might be, act like dicks.

I myself have been a motorcyclist for some time and to this date (knock on wood) have never had a problem with other road users. It's down to the individual, not the activity.

Otherwise I reserve the right to call every gun owner a dick too. But I don't.
Cheers
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:00 pm

Quoting AF1624 (Reply 53):
I see a lot of angry comments here against motorcycles and motorcylists in general.

No you don't. There are a lot of angry comments about THESE bikers in particular, and other bikers who we have all seen occasionally, acting in a similar fashion. But I have yet to read anyone imply in this thread that all bikers are like this.

There is also a lot of frustration here. If you look at the videos, you will see that at least half of all the bikers in them have removed their license plates, so that as long as they are not physically cornered and caught, (which itself probably won't happen because apparently the NYPD has orders not to pursue them), they will get away with it, and do it again (and we've seen the videos - they pull these stunts frequently.)
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
cmf
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:09 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 52):
Like I said, by shooting the bastard who tries to break into your car.

You think you will be able to shoot 200 before they shoot you. Not a chance.
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
 
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Boeing717200
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:50 pm

Anyone here shocked:


The Lawrence motor­cyclist struck and paralyzed as a desperate SUV driver tried to escape the rage of other bikers in New York on Sunday has a six-page criminal record that began at age 12 with a negligent driving charge and includes jail time for drugs, guns, resisting arrest and other convictions, according to court records.

Edwin Mieses, 32, never got a driver’s license in the Bay State, the Registry of Motor Vehicles said, but he was frequently nabbed behind the wheel, and even sentenced to jail for driving without a license, court records show. Mieses has a pending case out of Lawrence District Court for driving suspended, subsequent offense, said Carrie Kimball Monihan, spokeswoman for the Essex County District Attorney’s Office. Mieses also has 15 guilty findings for criminal offenses including distribution of cocaine, possession of a firearm without a permit, knowingly receiving stolen property, resisting arrest and several motor vehicle violations, court records show.

Mieses was sentenced to jail in 2004 for distribution of cocaine, in 2001 for operating without a license, in 2000 for possession of a firearm, and in 1999 for possession of marijuana, receiving stolen property, destruction of property and attaching plates, according to court records.

- See more at: http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion...iminal_record#sthash.iawmFP4d.dpuf
240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!
 
Mike89406
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:07 pm

12 Gauge birdshot might get they're attention or rock salt. Sorry couldn't resist not a gun person but I guarantee they'd back off a little.
 
smittyone
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:12 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 55):
You think you will be able to shoot 200 before they shoot you. Not a chance.

Of course you can't shoot 200 people. That's not how deterrence works.

None of those 200 bikers want to be the ONE who gets shot in the face when they come bang on your window. Which would be something to consider if people were legally permitted to carry weapons to protect themselves (and a substantial number of people did so).

Whether that would be an overall benefit to society is a different question that we've discussed at length here already. Unfortunately because of the laws in NYC and lassitude of the police, thugs can be pretty confident that they will be able to do whatever they want to law abiding citizens with impunity. A very real cost of the 'safety' we get from banning legal gun ownership.

Unless they get in FRONT of the vehicle, of course.
 
cmf
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:01 pm

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 58):
Of course you can't shoot 200 people. That's not how deterrence works.

None of those 200 bikers want to be the ONE who gets shot in the face when they come bang on your window. Which would be something to consider if people were legally permitted to carry weapons to protect themselves (and a substantial number of people did so).

Considering the number of assaults and robberies in states where you can carry in public it does not seem the deterrent effect is significant. Then add the Zimmerman defence after the driver opened fire I have no idea what they would fear.
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:15 pm

I never said that "pointing a 9 in someone's face" wouldn't get them to back off, but there are what, 200 of them? Odds are when a firearm goes off one or two of them will start unloading at the SUV. You saw how many of them there were, how are you gonna defend against those that have a weapon unless you have ninja observation skills or just started to shoot them all indiscriminately? You're gonna run out of bullets faster than you can pick them off and they'd eventually chase you down and probably kill you.

I'm not arguing against guns and self defense, I'm just saying in this situation it probably would have worked in this case. But let's face it, pretty much nothing would have worked. It's a lose lose lose situation, the victim should be happy that he's alive and his family was unharmed... it could have easily ended up in a triple homicide. Wonder how the NYPD will respond, this is obviously unacceptable, but how to prevent it? Motorcycles can easily evade police unless you go through some crazy measures like helicopter chases. A half way decent motorcyclist is much more maneuverable than a patrol car
 
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alberchico
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:40 pm

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 56):
Mieses was sentenced to jail in 2004 for distribution of cocaine, in 2001 for operating without a license, in 2000 for possession of a firearm, and in 1999 for possession of marijuana, receiving stolen property, destruction of property and attaching plates, according to court records.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/injured-bik...-innocent-victim/story?id=20467895

Gloria Alfred is now probably cursing having taken him up as a client. No way in hell is this guy getting any compensation ...

[Edited 2013-10-04 16:42:48]
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
smittyone
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:45 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 59):
Considering the number of assaults and robberies in states where you can carry in public it does not seem the deterrent effect is significant.

Good point...I suppose more people would have to carry and a few more people would need to get shot in the face before criminals took the deterrent seriously.
 
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alberchico
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:02 am

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...-upper-manhattan-article-1.1476093

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...-range-rover-driver-officials?lite

Now it turns out there may have been undercover cops riding with the bike group that day but did not get involved as to not blow their cover. The article also has some close up shots of the range rover in a police garage that appears to show that one tire was slashed.

[Edited 2013-10-04 17:16:26]
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:14 am

Quoting alberchico (Reply 63):
Now it turns out there may have been undercover cops riding with the bike group that day but did not get involved as to not blow their cover.

To quote one of the commenters,

"How does an undercover cop blow his cover by simply standing up and saying "hey there's a kid in the car, cut it out" he doesnt have to jump out there and start cuffing people. If these are the people he's hanging with on his free time, you best do some investigating on him, esp if he's supposed to be undercover narc."
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
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alberchico
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:32 am

If you take a close look at this new pic it shows the tire was already slashed and fully deflated when the attack began. Which means that could have been the spark that prompted the guy to hit the gas hard when he first stopped on the highway. If someone bangs on your windows, tries to pry open your door and then proceeds to slash your tires wouldn't you step on it ?

http://i.imgur.com/bUZ9Lo6.jpg

short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
Mike89406
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:35 am

 
mham001
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:31 pm

Quoting alberchico (Reply 61):
Gloria Alfred is now probably cursing having taken him up as a client. No way in hell is this guy getting any compensation ...

Lawyers check out thier clients before taking cases. She knew. If she did not, then she made a blunder. She has not gotten where she is, to the pinnacle of lowlife defense, by making blunders.

Quoting alberchico (Reply 65):

If you take a close look at this new pic it shows the tire was already slashed and fully deflated when the attack began.

A defense lawyer will say that happened when it plowed over the motorcycles.
 
Mike89406
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:24 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 67):

They're definitely going after his money. I'm not sure how far they'll go or if they will get paid. There were 5 undercover officers that rode with the group but didn't do anything to protect they're cover. I'm sure the NYPD has some evidence to use against them.

The aunt said "This man with a Range Rover and luxury lifestyle — it's OK for him to do something to someone because he rides a bike or has tattoos?" she said.

Yet some of them are driving $14,000 bikes or more. Some bikes were unregistered and they found out 12 bikes we're stolen. Me thinks drug money funded this gang or person(s).

The lawyer is portraying Jay Meeze AKA Edwin Mieses as some innocent bystander that was trying to calm everyone and/or help. Jay was a aspiring rapper.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:28 pm

Quoting Mike89406 (Reply 68):
There were 5 undercover officers that rode with the group but didn't do anything to protect they're cover.

Well now that this information has come out they might have well have assisted. Undercover ops aren't too rare but I'm sure the motorcyclists are more suspicious now that they know there are definitely undercover cops in their ranks.

Hopefully this bizarre incident convinces the police to crack down on this behavior, however hard it may be to stop it
 
bristolflyer
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:14 am

Quoting Mike89406 (Reply 68):
"This man with a Range Rover and luxury lifestyle %u2014 it's OK for him to do something to someone because he rides a bike or has tattoos?" she said.

It's okay for him to do this this not because he has a Range Rover but because he was set upon by a bunch of unruly people. If you watch the video linked earlier in this thread you will see these people have no respect for the law or other road users. He was part of that gang, he knew what he was doing.
Fortune favours the brave
 
dragon-wings
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Sun Oct 06, 2013 2:46 am

I was watching a local morning news program (PIX11) and they had a interview with one of the bikers that was riding that day. He said they blocked in the SUV because before this video he (the SUV driver) hit one of the bikers and they were trying to get info from him and trying to prevent him from leaving the scene.
Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano
 
bristolflyer
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:27 am

Quoting dragon-wings (Reply 71):

I was watching a local morning news program (PIX11) and they had a interview with one of the bikers that was riding that day. He said they blocked in the SUV because before this video he (the SUV driver) hit one of the bikers and they were trying to get info from him and trying to prevent him from leaving the scene.

Huh, took them a week to come up with that story. Even if he had hit one of the bikers previously he still can't be blamed for leaving the scene hurriedly (and the collateral damage of a biker getting hurt).
Fortune favours the brave
 
ltbewr
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:41 am

This was a terrible mix of situations. You have criminals on motorcycles, occupying multiple lanes and intimidating any one - in this case the Range Rover driver - who got in his way to use the public roads legally. In a panic, fearful of physical violence to himself and his family or a set up for a robbery/carjacking, the RR driver hit one of the motorcyclists, severely injuring him in his escape breaking the law including leaving the scene of an accident. Despite multiple 911 calls, no cops appear to get involved. The bikers then try to get revenge on the RR driver finally trapping him in traffic, beating him up, damaging his car. Then we find out a number of undercover NYPD officers were riding with this biker gang and fearful of blowing cover, they did nothing to prevent he conflict with the RR driver, taking control of the situation to protect the RR driver, which could have prevented him from running the biker he did and his assault later.

I suspect there is going to be several investigations. The NYPD Internal Affairs will be going after the alleged undercover officers with the biker gang, in fact already on of those officers has been suspended from duty. No doubt from suspension to firings, those officers will face punishment for their too deep involvement with criminal activity in the gang.
The lawyer for the injured biker willgo after the NYPD and the owner of the RR in a hostile case, most likely in Bronx County, with Juries who are notoriously in favor of injured Plaintiffs, especially if the City or it's police are involved. The driver may face violent reprisals by the bikers or his friends and family and be a Defendant in a likely huge civil lawsuit. The ugliness of this incident is far from over. If the RR driver just let the bikers past him all this would have been prevented but it wouldn't stop their violence.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:11 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 73):
If the RR driver just let the bikers past him all this would have been prevented but it wouldn't stop their violence.

Why do you think that? It's more likely that his car would have been stolen, him left bleeding or dead on the side of the road, his wife and kid kidnapped, and possibly worse. This is a criminal gang, who get their kicks doing illegal stuff because they think they are immune to prosecution.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:40 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 73):
those officers will face punishment for their too deep involvement with criminal activity in the gang.

Source!?

Undercover cops can't just go around committing crimes because they are undercover. That's not how it works. Whether they should have intervened or not is another question, but I'm not really sure if that is a crime or just bad judgement
 
cmf
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:46 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 74):
Why do you think that?

Probably because they passed a lot of other cars without stealing them and leaving the driver bleeding or dead on the side of the road and his wife and kid kidnapped, or worse.
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
 
Redd
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Sun Oct 06, 2013 2:06 pm

If I were the guy driving the Range Rover and had my family in it I would have done exactly what he did.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 23):
This. Both for bicyclists and motorcycle riders alike.
Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 21):
was at a Four-Way Stop type intersection in Atlanta last week and people on bicycles were sailing right through the Stops with total abandon. WTF?

Get off the case of bicycles, yes there are some idiots out there but that comes as a result of no clear public education campaigns. I'm on my bicycle in the city everyday, all four seasons, and I follow all the traffic rules. Be that as it may I still receive a ridiculous amount of aggression from drivers, most of the time because they have to slow down before they pass me. (god forbid that right foot has to get that extra exercise) It irks me that people behind the wheel of a car fail to see the 'PERSON' on the bicycle and that one little bump can kill.

Cycling is a great transport solution for cities as it relieves pollution and congestion and you can usually cut your travel time in half if not more. It also reduces a nation's health care cost dramatically as cyclists are much healthier people than drivers.

Go to a city like Copenhagen or Amsterdam where the government has really pushed public education and infrastructure when it comes to cycling and you see that everyone follows the rules and drivers and cyclists respect each other mutually. Amazing cities to get around in and no aggression on the roads.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:20 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 76):
Probably because they passed a lot of other cars without stealing them and leaving the driver bleeding or dead on the side of the road and his wife and kid kidnapped, or worse.

Did Lien know this? How?

You seem not to have watched the video. He was not bothering the gang. They could have simply ridden on by. They intentionally "checked" him, causing an accident and initiating the conflict.

Even without his family in the car, he is entitled to defend himself from what was clearly a bunch of outlaws. With his family, even more so.

I think your sympathies are very much misplaced.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
cmf
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:08 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 78):
Did Lien know this? How?

You seem not to have watched the video. He was not bothering the gang. They could have simply ridden on by. They intentionally "checked" him, causing an accident and initiating the conflict.

Even without his family in the car, he is entitled to defend himself from what was clearly a bunch of outlaws. With his family, even more so.

Since you know exactly what happened why don't you tell us why they picked him and not any of the many other cars that were out that day.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 78):
I think your sympathies are very much misplaced.

Are they? How?
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
 
bristolflyer
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:29 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 79):
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 78):
Did Lien know this? How?

You seem not to have watched the video. He was not bothering the gang. They could have simply ridden on by. They intentionally "checked" him, causing an accident and initiating the conflict.

Even without his family in the car, he is entitled to defend himself from what was clearly a bunch of outlaws. With his family, even more so.

Since you know exactly what happened why don't you tell us why they picked him and not any of the many other cars that were out that day.

There's a lot that may or may not have happened before the video starts rolling. But the other evidence is in the form of eyewitness accounts (that the bikers were blocking freeway entrances so they could have the road to themselves) and other videos of the same gang's prior activities (that show these bikers hassling other motorists/going through red lights/riding on sidewalks etc). There was one report that I read that said this gang would target wealthy looking Asians in smart cars and rob them.

Hopefully the undercover cops can offer some reliable witness testimony.
Fortune favours the brave
 
mham001
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:23 pm

Quoting Redd (Reply 77):
Get off the case of bicycles,

Nope, they can be nearly as bad - without the acceleration.
 
Redd
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:42 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 81):
Nope, they can be nearly as bad - without the acceleration.

I'd be curious to hear you elaborate on your opinion.
 
mham001
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:18 pm

Quoting Redd (Reply 82):
I'd be curious to hear you elaborate on your opinion.

There have been at least several instances of groups of bicycles smashing up cars in San Francisco just like you saw in that video. Critical Mass is no better than what those motorcyclists do when they shut down roads. Neither are the asshat bicyclists I routinely come across in San Jose, I ride here daily.
 
Mike89406
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:37 pm

Other bikers have even said this bike group was not only breaking every law but they were instigating trouble. I believe that the RR driver was a criminal nor was he purposely trying to take out bikers to knock them out purposely. It looked like an evasive measure to protect his family. If you look up Hollywood Stuntz on youtube etc... You'll see they have a history of this kind of behavior.

If he would of stopped no police could've made it there in time to protect him as the damage would've been done within seconds.
 
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alberchico
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:08 pm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...lien-_n_4057279.html?ncid=webmail1

Now it turns out that the bikers were also trying to drag the wife out of the car.

''More shocking details have also emerged in the story. Good Samaritan Sergio Consuegra, who intervened in the assault of the SUV driver Alexian Lien, told ABC one of the bikers also attacked Lien's wife, Rosalyn Ng, "grabbing her by the arms, real hard" until bystanders yelled at him to stop.''
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
Flighty
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:51 pm

That's why you electrify the body. If anyone touches it in a dispute, then go down. Maybe forever.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 83):
Neither are the asshat bicyclists I routinely come across in San Jose, I ride here daily.

Amen. Here is my thing about bicyclists. Okay, you're on a bicycle. And a bike is a road vehicle.

But, okay, hear this. Road accidents happen. I have never caused one. But, when it does happen, each and every accident will mean your death, bicyclist. You chose a vehicle with zero crash protection. I made a different choice. My car has steel girders and airbags. Does yours? I have insurance. Do you? Who will pay your medical bills? Does your insurance company know you are risking your life daily an unsafe vehicle? What about _your_ responsibilities?

Among my bicycle riding friends, a curious thing is happening. People are getting a lot of surgery. Some are incapacitated for life. Is it worth it?
 
Mir
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:58 pm

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 8):
I wonder if the bikers would have been so 'badass' in this case had they perceived a reasonable potential for the driver to be legally armed.

Thanks to the laws in a place like NYC, thugs can be pretty certain that any 'law abiding' types are easy picking.

(Edit: Not my intent to start a gun debate but something to think about. That guy in the SUV must have felt pretty helpless, with his family at risk besides.)

It's worth pointing out that hypotheticals like these often assume that it's only one person that has a gun. I feel quite confident that if he were able to have a gun, there would be plenty of bikers who would also have guns. And then instead of going after the driver with his helmet, the biker might have gone after him with a gun. And he wouldn't be the only one. Sure, the driver might have got him first, but then the other bikers would likely have shot him and possibly his wife and kid also (and if this were Florida, they'd arguably be justified in doing so on the grounds that they feared for their own lives). End result: lots of people shot, probably with innocent bystanders among them. That's not an automatic outcome if guns are introduced into the scenario, but it's at least as likely if not more than the gang backing off from the driver.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:13 pm

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 56):
Edwin Mieses, 32

That would be the silver lining to this dark cloud, this POS will never again be able to get up to no good.
 
dallasnewark
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:06 pm

This type of stuff would have never happened in places outside of New York, Chicago or San Francisco.
These thugs no that people do not have the weapons in the car with them to protect themselves.

If it was my family in the SUV, I would not have an issue with using my weapon to protect my family, but I live in Dallas and stuff like that doesn't happen here, those thugs are aware that ordinary citizens may carry a weapon.

I know some of you will try to label me as a gun nut, but I could care less. If the man can't protect his family, he is useless.
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dallasnewark
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:16 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 60):
I never said that "pointing a 9 in someone's face" wouldn't get them to back off, but there are what, 200 of them? Odds are when a firearm goes off one or two of them will start unloading at the SUV. You saw how many of them there were, how are you gonna defend against those that have a weapon unless you have ninja observation skills or just started to shoot them all indiscriminately? You're gonna run out of bullets faster than you can pick them off and they'd eventually chase you down and probably kill you.

I'm not arguing against guns and self defense, I'm just saying in this situation it probably would have worked in this case. But let's face it, pretty much nothing would have worked. It's a lose lose lose situation, the victim should be happy that he's alive and his family was unharmed... it could have easily ended up in a triple homicide. Wonder how the NYPD will respond, this is obviously unacceptable, but how to prevent it? Motorcycles can easily evade police unless you go through some crazy measures like helicopter chases. A half way decent motorcyclist is much more maneuverable than a patrol car


There were roughly 20 of them... If the first 2-3 would've been hit, the rest would scatter faster than Usain Bolt will run 100 meter dash. After all, these are cowards only show their supposed toughness when they outnumber their opponents by a large degree.

There's one question that interests me though, what if the guy opened fir and hit an undercover cop, would the shooting be justified in this case? Most likely answer is yes since the undercover cop was partaking in a crime. Those 2 cops that rode with them should be fired immediately and face criminal charges
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Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:22 pm

Quoting dallasnewark (Reply 89):
If it was my family in the SUV, I would not have an issue with using my weapon to protect my family

Your call, but you'd likely be opening yourself up to getting shot as well.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
mmedford
Posts: 449
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:30 pm

Quoting dallasnewark (Reply 89):

This type of stuff would have never happened in places outside of New York, Chicago or San Francisco.
These thugs no that people do not have the weapons in the car with them to protect themselves.

If it was my family in the SUV, I would not have an issue with using my weapon to protect my family, but I live in Dallas and stuff like that doesn't happen here, those thugs are aware that ordinary citizens may carry a weapon.

I know some of you will try to label me as a gun nut, but I could care less. If the man can't protect his family, he is useless.

I'm with this guy; the moment 2 or 3 would have went down...the other bikers would have scattered.

Make room for me in DFW, I'm leaving this place!
ILS = It'll Land Somewhere
 
dallasnewark
Posts: 393
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:43 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 91):
Your call, but you'd likely be opening yourself up to getting shot as well.

-Mir

I totally understand that the possibility of being hit back does exist, although a very unlikely one.
Those were not real bikers, but wannabe thugs and chance of them carrying the weapon are not great. And let me reiterate, once a couple of them gets hit, the other would run away. In this situation I would not have a second thought of opening fire to save the life of my family.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:45 pm

Quoting dallasnewark (Reply 90):
Most likely answer is yes since the undercover cop was partaking in a crime. Those 2 cops that rode with them should be fired immediately and face criminal charges

You don't know that. What was illegal here? Brake checking, blocking traffic, assaulting people, etc. The cops could have very easily rode with the bikers without clogging traffic or beating up people.

Maybe the cops did break the law, but you or I don't know that. Just riding along isn't illegal
 
dallasnewark
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:27 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 94):

You don't know that. What was illegal here? Brake checking, blocking traffic, assaulting people, etc. The cops could have very easily rode with the bikers without clogging traffic or beating up people.

Maybe the cops did break the law, but you or I don't know that. Just riding along isn't illegal

Agree with you here, it's not a crime riding a bike. However, when assault began, the off duty police should not have been an innocent bystanders in all of that. They should be charged with the felony here, they cannot just stand and observe the other guy getting the living daylights beat out of him.
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Dreadnought
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RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:12 pm

Quoting dallasnewark (Reply 93):
Those were not real bikers, but wannabe thugs and chance of them carrying the weapon are not great.

Even the Hell's Angels are angry at these losers.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/10/05...rk-beating-after-motorcycle-chase/

Quote:
"These types of incidents unfairly give us a bad name," George Christie, who led the Ventura, Calif., chapter of the Hells Angels for 35 years, said. "They are not an example of what we stand for."

...

"I don't have any respect for people who don't know how to ride in a proper formation on the highway," said Angel, the former rider who only gave his first name for the report. "You also don't chase and beat up a man in front of his family. They're a bunch of cowards."

Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
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DeltaMD90
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Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:30 pm

Quoting dallasnewark (Reply 95):
However, when assault began, the off duty police should not have been an innocent bystanders in all of that. They should be charged with the felony here, they cannot just stand and observe the other guy getting the living daylights beat out of him.

While I agree they should have intervened, do you have proof this was a crime? How close were the undercover officers? Did any help after the camera was cut off?

I can very easily see the undercover cops getting in trouble, but you are going off on a limb without knowing all the information. You could be spot on or very very wrong
 
dallasnewark
Posts: 393
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:33 pm

RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:59 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 97):
While I agree they should have intervened, do you have proof this was a crime? How close were the undercover officers? Did any help after the camera was cut off?

I can very easily see the undercover cops getting in trouble, but you are going off on a limb without knowing all the information. You could be spot on or very very wrong

It looks like one of the cops was actually involved in the fracas...... That is sad if the reports are true.
And also if true, he needs to be fired immediately and charged with felony assault.


http://nypost.com/2013/10/07/bike-co...-in-on-suv-beatdown-video-reveals/
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Elite
Posts: 2309
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:31 pm

RE: Bikers Attack Range Rover Driver (vid)

Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:10 am

Quoting dallasnewark (Reply 98):

Losing faith in the NYPD bit by bit....

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