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jetblueguy22
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Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:39 pm

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...l-in-lockdown-reports-shots-fired/

Looks like staffers are being told to hold in place. Another report says 10-15 shots in quick succession. I really hope some idiot didn't take the budget issues into his own hands. Hopefully nobody is hurt. My thoughts go out to those in the Capitol.
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stlgph
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RE: Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:08 pm

Basically looking at a car chase, wound up near capitol, suspect got out of car, suspect shot.

Edit/addition: Suspect dead

[Edited 2013-10-03 12:29:09]
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casinterest
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RE: Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:35 pm

Quoting stlgph (Reply 1):
Basically looking at a car chase, wound up near capitol, suspect got out of car, suspect shot.

Edit/addition: Suspect dead

Apparently there was a kid in the car. This one is going to be an interesting case.
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flymia
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RE: Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:46 pm

Even though much of the Capitol Police job is fairly mundane task like checkpoints, security in hall way etc.. They are trained big time and when an issue requires response they respond as quick as any agency out there. A great group of officers. I worked part time on the hill for a year and always had great experiences with them.

Looks like from the video USSS Uniform was on the scene too as the chase started by the White House. Another fantastic agency. Only great things to say about them also. They were by my college all the time as I was only 3 blocks away from the White House. Made you feel very safe when you saw Secret Service cars driving by all the time.
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ImperialEagle
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RE: Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:01 pm

Finally, someone figured out a way to get the politicians to communicate with each other.  
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Mike89406
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RE: Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:24 pm

Suicide by police enough said.
 
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ual747den
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RE: Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Just seen video and its crazy to see how much was caught, someone smarter than me can post it. I cant blame the police, I think everyone around the world is pretty well aware that if you try to mess around in front of the White House your going to get shot.
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casinterest
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RE: Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:17 pm

Quoting ual747den (Reply 9):
Just seen video and its crazy to see how much was caught, someone smarter than me can post it. I cant blame the police, I think everyone around the world is pretty well aware that if you try to mess around in front of the White House your going to get shot.
http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/vi...-chase-capitol-hill-shots.cnn.html

Not sure what the hell she was thinking. They had her stopped , surrounded , guns pointed and she drove off.

I am guessing they didn't fire immediately as the kid was in the car.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:50 am

Wow isn't it a bit early to be jumping to conclusions and casting blame? Geez, hope some of yall never find themselves in sticky situation.

Right or wrong, RIP to the victim and wish the best for the kid
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:55 am

What a nutjob. Keep an eye on your coworkers and neighbors out there folks.
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PHX787
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RE: Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:02 am

Two theories.....someone upset about the shutdown, or

Quoting Mike89406 (Reply 6):
Suicide by police enough said.

This, using the shutdown as a way to get attention.
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ATCtower
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RE: Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:16 am

According to those who "represent" us, she was driving down ConstitutionAL Avenue". Certainly inspires confidence in those who are allowed to control us...
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cmf
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RE: Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:33 am

After watching the video, what on earth did they hope to achieve by shooting at the back of the car after it had passed all of them? That was the wrong time to shoot.
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par13del
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RE: Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:12 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 14):
After watching the video, what on earth did they hope to achieve by shooting at the back of the car after it had passed all of them? That was the wrong time to shoot.

Shooting after the car already passed is similar to the incident on Miami Beach a couple years ago.
Thankfully in this case innocent bystanders were not hit, I have only been to Washington during the summer so maybe this time of year and the shutdown meant that there were less persons in danger during the incident.
 
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casinterest
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RE: Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:37 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 11):
Two theories.....someone upset about the shutdown, or

Quoting Mike89406 (Reply 6):
Suicide by police enough said.

This, using the shutdown as a way to get attention.

I heard on the radio this morning that her mother thought she had postpartum depression. May go along with the theory.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/miriam-care...artum-depression/story?id=20465157
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ual747den
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RE: Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:47 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 9):
Wow isn't it a bit early to be jumping to conclusions and casting blame? Geez, hope some of yall never find themselves in sticky situation.

Did you watch the video, that woman was surrounded several times and she took it to a whole new level by doing this in front of the White House and Capital. Those officers arent looking at it like just another car chase they are looking at the security of the buildings they are protecting. They have to treat her like a threat to the Federal Government.

Quoting cmf (Reply 13):
After watching the video, what on earth did they hope to achieve by shooting at the back of the car after it had passed all of them? That was the wrong time to shoot.

We had a situation in a very wealthy suburb South of Denver where a Castle Rock police officer started shooting at a car that he felt was trying to run him over, but this officer continued shooting at the car after it had passed him and 2 other cars not related ended up with bullets in them, in this case I think it was very wrong of the officer to shoot after the threat had passed him by. In the DC case however this incident took on a different situation when the lady tried to ram the barricades at the White House. Those officers in white are Secret Service agents and their role is to protect the White House and Government, im sure at that point they had to assume she was out to hurt people and could have a bomb or anything else in the car and therefore they needed to stop the situation from escalating any further. Like I said before I think it is extremely clear to EVERYONE that if you ram a barricade at the White House you will be killed. Not really a question of what "might" happen.
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cmf
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RE: Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:09 pm

Quoting ual747den (Reply 15):
im sure at that point they had to assume she was out to hurt people and could have a bomb or anything else in the car and therefore they needed to stop the situation from escalating any further.

Shouldn't they have fired earlier in that case?
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flymia
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RE: Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:09 pm

I was actually surprised they did not shoot her earlier in that video when she almost ran over some officers. As for shooting someone who had no weapon I think in another area of town or another city all together it very well might have turned out differently. But this is the Capitol and White House, they have no idea if she has 150lbs of explosives in her car. They had no choice but to make sure she was stopped.
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cmf
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RE: Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:04 pm

Quoting flymia (Reply 17):
They had no choice but to make sure she was stopped.

Chances of stopping a car driving away by shooting, pretty small. Chance of hitting something that shouldn't be hit under any circumstances, unless you're in the desert with no other people around, much bigger. I don't see any way of justifying those shoots.
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PHX787
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RE: Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:18 am

Quoting cmf (Reply 12):
After watching the video, what on earth did they hope to achieve by shooting at the back of the car after it had passed all of them? That was the wrong time to shoot.

They maybe were trying to shoot the tires out. That's the first thing I do when I play GTA and I want to stop a car   

Quoting casinterest (Reply 14):
I heard on the radio this morning that her mother thought she had postpartum depression. May go along with the theory.

I heard that form of depression can be absolutely debilitating. It may also somewhat explain why the infant was in the car.....maybe if she wanted to go, she wanted her infant to go with her.
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KaiGywer
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RE: Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:31 pm

Quoting flymia (Reply 17):
As for shooting someone who had no weapon

She had a very large weapon otherwise known as a car

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 19):
They maybe were trying to shoot the tires out.

Eh. No.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 19):
That's the first thing I do when I play GTA and I want to stop a car

  
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falstaff
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RE: Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:56 pm

Quoting flymia (Reply 17):
As for shooting someone who had no weapon I think in another area of town or another city all together it very well might have turned out differently.

A car is one hell of a weapon, it kills people on a regular basis, both by accident and on purpose. I have a student who's mother was run down (she didn't die, but was seriously injured) by an ex husband who was using his car as a weapon.

It is interesting how everyone just assumes the reason for this was some sort of mental problem, which I am sure it is. If it was a white man there would be people on here blaming this on right wing radio and Republicans regardless of the man's mental condition. If it was a Muslim man there would be people on here screaming it is terror related, even if the man was mentally off. Since the act was committed by a black woman everyone just wants to know what caused her to do this without throwing politics and race into it, which is how the incident should be discussed regardless of who committed the act.

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 20):
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 19):
They maybe were trying to shoot the tires out.

Eh. No.

I would imagine that would be very hard to do.
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Maverick623
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RE: Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:24 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 19):
They maybe were trying to shoot the tires out.

Highly unlikely.

Quoting cmf (Reply 12):
After watching the video, what on earth did they hope to achieve by shooting at the back of the car after it had passed all of them?

Well, we can't really see who fired the shots and where they were standing. I assume less than 3 people fired shots, given the number of shots was less than 10, and there were probably a dozen officers visible in the clip (and more not visible).

Also, shooting at a car that's driving away from you isn't much different than shooting at one that's coming towards you, although both are much harder to do than if the car was standing still.
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cmf
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RE: Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:31 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 22):
Well, we can't really see who fired the shots and where they were standing.

I grant you there is some uncertainty but looking at the video I find it highly likely it was as I stated.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 22):
Also, shooting at a car that's driving away from you isn't much different than shooting at one that's coming towards you

It isn't? Not my experience. When something is coming towards you the target gets increasingly larger and thus easier to hit. Driving away it is the opposite. Then add that if driving towards you it is a direct threat but driving away it isn't.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:43 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 23):
It isn't? Not my experience. When something is coming towards you the target gets increasingly larger and thus easier to hit. Driving away it is the opposite. Then add that if driving towards you it is a direct threat but driving away it isn't.

Depends on the angle you're at. If you're directly in front of or behind and there is little to no lateral movement, I don't think it matters how fast a car is coming or going. When you are at an angle or perpendicular to the car's path, then speed makes it increasingly difficult

A bit off topic but check out this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMk0bk4Omr0

That's what I mean about being directly behind a car. The suspect may be driving away but the distance the cop needs to move his aimpoint isn't very much at all

[Edited 2013-10-05 16:46:23]
 
cmf
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RE: Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:01 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 24):

There is always the exemption. He was lucky in that he had time to get perfectly lined up, close and the car had just started to move.

Even so what stands out is the poor decision to fire at a car driving away. There was no need to be judge and executioner at that time. Let him drive away. I'm sure he would have been picked up soon enough and given what he deserves thru the proper process.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:18 am

Quoting cmf (Reply 25):
Even so what stands out is the poor decision to fire at a car driving away. There was no need to be judge and executioner at that time. Let him drive away. I'm sure he would have been picked up soon enough and given what he deserves thru the proper process.

Forgot the justification, learned it in class. But I think it was along the lines of "if you're willing to kill a cop, you're willing to do just about anything and are very dangerous."

I posted it mostly to demonstrate my point about angles. Not saying you have to be lined up perfectly, just that angle goes into it. Also note that the area in the video is desolate... that changes things
 
cmf
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RE: Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:48 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 26):
Forgot the justification, learned it in class. But I think it was along the lines of "if you're willing to kill a cop, you're willing to do just about anything and are very dangerous."

No doubt he was dangerous. Still doesn't justify ignoring due process. I think this is a perfect example of the fundamental difference between US and most other developed countries.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 26):
I posted it mostly to demonstrate my point about angles. Not saying you have to be lined up perfectly, just that angle goes into it. Also note that the area in the video is desolate... that changes things

Of course angle goes into it. As does distance, speed and any many other things. Doesn't change that it is a situation with low likelihood of hitting the target.

Desolate certainly makes it better in many ways, and I almost put in that comment in my previous post, but even so look at what happened. The car crashed in to transformers. Not an unusual source of fires.

Key point is that you can always pick them up a bit later at a time when you control the situation. There is no reason to take the risks involved in being reactionary.
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Beardown91737
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RE: Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:01 am

In this case, picking up someone at a later point was at the Capitol. The sum of deliberate actions, like driving through White House gates, then using a vehicle as a weapon against law enforcement, then taking off towards the Capitol, weighs into the reaction to stop the potential attack then and there. The consequences of letting the person loose into the city could result in an attack at another site, or maybe a fatal traffic collision while the person was escaping.
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cmf
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RE: Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:11 am

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 28):
The consequences of letting the person loose into the city could result in an attack at another site, or maybe a fatal traffic collision while the person was escaping.

How did those shoots prevent all of these things?
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PHX787
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RE: Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:17 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 21):
Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 20):
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 19):
They maybe were trying to shoot the tires out.

Eh. No.

I would imagine that would be very hard to do.

Well, with proper aiming, it's not that hard. I've actually seen it done before (outside of GTA of course    )
Just aim and fire your lead projectile thingy into that rubber spinny thing otherwise known as a car.

The trajectory at that distance isn't going to deviate much (especially with the curve of the earth) So you're next to almost guaranteed a straight shot. If you aim right. And a car with as much mass as that Infiniti would certainly shed that tire and demobilize the vehicle.


They should've shot the engine too. I personally wish theyd kept her alive to see why the hell she did that.


Related news- the dude who self-immolated himself died. Again we'll never know his motivation but I guarantee it's political.
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Beardown91737
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RE: Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:38 am

I didn't say it prevented any of those things. I am saying a

Quoting cmf (Reply 29):

How did those shoots prevent all of these things?

Huh? I didn't say the shooting prevented any of those things.

Quoting cmf (Reply 25):
Even so what stands out is the poor decision to fire at a car driving away. There was no need to be judge and executioner at that time. Let him drive away. I'm sure he would have been picked up soon enough and given what he deserves thru the proper process.

What I was talking about were the risks of letting the driver loose into the city with the hopes of "picking her up later". When someone drives through barriers at the White House, the proper process is not to let them drive toward the Capitol.
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cmf
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RE: Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:56 am

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 31):
Huh? I didn't say the shooting prevented any of those things.

When you justify shooting with that argument shouldn't it achieve the goal to be considered justified?

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 31):
What I was talking about were the risks of letting the driver loose into the city with the hopes of "picking her up later". When someone drives through barriers at the White House, the proper process is not to let them drive toward the Capitol.

Again, how did shooting at that time help?
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Dreadnought
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RE: Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:17 am

Quoting cmf (Reply 32):
Again, how did shooting at that time help?

What if she had 500 lbs of C-4 in the trunk?
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cmf
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RE: Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:13 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 33):
What if she had 500 lbs of C-4 in the trunk?

Again, how did shooting at that time help?

And since you insist on playing what if instead of answer the question. What if she had two kidnapped kids instead of 500 lb C-4?
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Dreadnought
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RE: Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:43 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 34):
And since you insist on playing what if instead of answer the question. What if she had two kidnapped kids instead of 500 lb C-4?

How likely is that?

You seem to have forgotten many of the events over the past 20 years. Terrorism has become a real threat on home soil. I'm sure that post-action interviews with the officers involved indicate they saw a car attempting to ram its way onto the White House lawn, and later at the Capitol, and that they fully expected to be vaporized unless they neutralized the driver, who probably had a switch in his/her hand. I think they showed amazing restraint (or incompetence) that the car actually managed to get away from the White House all the way to the Capitol.

Those barricades were put there with that in mind, not to prevent kidnappings.
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cmf
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RE: Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:35 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 35):
How likely is that?

You seem to have forgotten many of the events over the past 20 years. Terrorism has become a real threat on home soil. I'm sure that post-action interviews with the officers involved indicate they saw a car attempting to ram its way onto the White House lawn, and later at the Capitol, and that they fully expected to be vaporized unless they neutralized the driver, who probably had a switch in his/her hand. I think they showed amazing restraint (or incompetence) that the car actually managed to get away from the White House all the way to the Capitol.

Those barricades were put there with that in mind, not to prevent kidnappings.

Did you see the video? The shoots are not fired while she ram her way in to the white house. They are fired as she tried to get away. So for I don't know what time. What good was shooting at that time? I don't understand why you are so afraid of answering that question.

Why the insistence on moving the situation to a different time? Why the insistence on creating increasingly worse scenarios instead of addressing the issue I commented on, Shooting as she got away. But let me add a question based on your latest scenario. If they were so worried about her being about to vaporize them and having a switch in her hand, why didn't they shoot her at the time she was stationary and they were next to her? Why wait until she had gained speed and was driving away? In your scenario the very latest they should have shoot is when she backed into the police car that had blocked her in. They stand there with weapons pointed thru the driver window so they certainly had the opportunity. Your scenario does not add up.
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par13del
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RE: Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Mon Oct 07, 2013 2:48 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 36):
Why the insistence on moving the situation to a different time? Why the insistence on creating increasingly worse scenarios instead of addressing the issue I commented on, Shooting as she got away.

We are trained / rasied to respect authority and to give them 100% support, so it should be understandable that until the authorities actually critize themselves or hint that there may have been other ways to resolve the issue, we will support them 100% and not stray into any grey area's, at least that's my thought on the subject.
 
cmf
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RE: Gun Shots Reported At The US Capitol

Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:46 pm

Quoting par13del (Reply 37):
We are trained / rasied to respect authority and to give them 100% support, so it should be understandable that until the authorities actually critize themselves or hint that there may have been other ways to resolve the issue, we will support them 100% and not stray into any grey area's, at least that's my thought on the subject.

Giving 100% support and not criticising authority doesn't exactly match their track track record so I don't see that as the reason  
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