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DeltaMD90
Posts: 8928
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RE: Legality Of Red Light Cameras?

Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:18 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 49):
I may have been arguing without reading thoroughly. Not good.

Easy to do. When most people hear "running a red light" we think of someone seeing the light turn red, say screw it, and blast on through. Someone like me has a different perspective since I almost had to pay for one, so I can easily the confusion.

My boring story, skip if you don't want to read it:

Like flymia was mentioning, it was a minor ticket that turned into a citation since I was moving around all the time in flight school and didn't feel like updating (and paying) for a new license every few months. So they kept sending the ticket to the address I was at 2 address ago then somehow found out my home of record (my parents' house) and sent it there, but by that time, the time elapsed and it became a citation (talking FL here.) I was upset and I just wanted it bumped down to the normal ticket, I had a semi-good excuse but I was still in the wrong, but why not try? I wasn't going to try and fight it in court because I'd have to fly to FL and I was then in TX. The receptionist lady didn't care about my pleas and told me I could call the guy in charge of it (an actual police officer.) I called him, told him I wanted to talk about the ticket, and without even hearing my story just asked my name and removed the ticket. Have no idea why but I wasn't complaining, shut up, and thanked him afterwards. Sometimes, just simply asking for something will get you what you want. Very fortunate
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Legality Of Red Light Cameras?

Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:40 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 50):
Like flymia was mentioning, it was a minor ticket that turned into a citation since I was moving around all the time in flight school and didn't feel like updating (and paying) for a new license every few months. So they kept sending the ticket to the address I was at 2 address ago then somehow found out my home of record (my parents' house) and sent it there, but by that time, the time elapsed and it became a citation (talking FL here.) I was upset and I just wanted it bumped down to the normal ticket, I had a semi-good excuse but I was still in the wrong, but why not try? I wasn't going to try and fight it in court because I'd have to fly to FL and I was then in TX. The receptionist lady didn't care about my pleas and told me I could call the guy in charge of it (an actual police officer.) I called him, told him I wanted to talk about the ticket, and without even hearing my story just asked my name and removed the ticket. Have no idea why but I wasn't complaining, shut up, and thanked him afterwards. Sometimes, just simply asking for something will get you what you want.

You are either very good with words, or damn lucky.
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Aesma
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RE: Legality Of Red Light Cameras?

Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:50 am

About 15 years ago the way to do it here was to provide a bottle of good wine or scotch to the right person, my parents did it once for a red light !
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
skywaymanaz
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RE: Legality Of Red Light Cameras?

Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:32 am

Quoting greasespot (Reply 37):
One thing I have learned in 9 years of being a cop. Everyone has a legal reason why a ticket is not valid and most of those are recycled over the years.

I couldn't be a police officer because I think my head would explode listening to excuses and lies all day long. That being said as a police officer what is your view on communities that do the following?

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 27):
- Reducing the yellow light interval to the absolute legal minimum
- Ticketing cars that make a legal right on red, but did not come to a complete stop for 3-5 seconds
- Moving stop lines back a few feet and then ticketing cars that roll-up to the old line

From my own personal experience when the ¡¡¡FLASH!!! goes off right next to you it is not pleasant. There is a red light camera on my daily commute and it flashes frequently a car or two behind me when the light is changing. Scares the crap out of me but *knock on wood* I haven't gotten anything in the mail so I doubt it was flashing for me. We used to have photo radar cameras on our freeways here in Phoenix. Even though I had the cruise control set at the speed limit it would still stop my heart for a few seconds seeing the flash. It was a safety initiative from former Gov. Napolitano, she became DHS Secretary right after that. One was placed off the approach end to Sky Harbor runway 7L lined up with the approach flashing lights . . . yeah that was safe   There was another one on Loop 101 near Glendale Airport I mistook at night for other aircraft in the pattern more than once.
 
cmf
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RE: Legality Of Red Light Cameras?

Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:43 am

Quoting flymia (Reply 36):
My girlfriend wrote a 30+ page law review article about how red light cameras are unconstitutional. I am so sick of them and they keep popping up everywhere.

There are plenty of problems with how they have been implemented but let's not forget that running red lights is a problem causing a lot of accidents here.

Ever driven out from Star Islands towards the beach? I have seen so many accidents I wait until there are stopped cars in all lanes or no cars driving down MacArthur. I've lost track of how many times I've seen them hit the stopped cars.

Quoting flymia (Reply 48):
But there is not other way to do it

There is. Some countries set fines based on your income. Ever so often you hear about a guy in Finland getting a few hundred thousand Euro speeding ticket because of it.
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
 
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zippyjet
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RE: Legality Of Red Light Cameras?

Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:02 am

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):

It's the great American Governmental money grab. At least in Maryland they are spreading faster than genital herpes on your average stripper! But thank God as of yet a first offense isn't the ludacrous sum of $790 like in California.
Red Light cameras are beneficial in maybe a handful of dangerous intersections. Otherwise it's as I've said a money grab. In Maryland we also have speed cameras and cameras in construction work zones. Several years ago one of the few legislaters in our state with half a brain proposed the work zone cameras only be operational when there were workers on duty at the construction sight. The rest of them voted it down so even if the work zone area is perfectly safe say late night or weekends you still can get zapped and your fine doubles. It's all about the $$$
I'm Zippyjet & I approve this message!
 
cmf
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RE: Legality Of Red Light Cameras?

Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:56 am

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 55):
It's the great American Governmental money grab.

Let's not forget they only grab money from those failing to follow the law. It is pretty hypercritical to complain about them not letting people break the law.
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
 
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WildcatYXU
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RE: Legality Of Red Light Cameras?

Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:56 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 21):
Regardless of how quickly you stop, if the driver behind you runs in to you, then he was too close



OK. So, the driver behind me didn't stop. The rear end of my car is ruined, I suffered a whiplash and all my plans for the near future are ruined. So how exactly will the knowledge that someone else caused the accident help me?

Quoting scbriml (Reply 21):
If you're approaching a junction with lights, you should always be prepared to stop.



So you are one of those braking when approaching a green light?

Quoting moo (Reply 19):
What sort of ridiculous timings do you have on your traffic lights in the US?



Not USA, but we have a few very weirdly timed intersections here in YXU, where the amber signal is too short for the width of intersecting streets.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 32):
The red light cameras in Germany turn live 1 or 2 seconds after the red light comes on.



2 seconds at 50 km/h gives a driver enough time to clear most intersections if he/she entered right when the signal turned red. That filters out the "late brakers" and leaves only those who really ran the red light.

Quoting greasespot (Reply 37):
They have been around for years and if the USSC thought they were not constitutional they would have taken up the case. That has not happened so to me that means they are or the USSC does not think this is a issue that is to be decided on by them and will leave it in the hands of the appeals court.



What good would any complaint do? The street racing law was declared unconstitutional by two judges and the police is continuing laying charges based on it. If the law enforcement is ignoring the court's decisions, there is zero help for the citizen.
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JoePatroni707
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RE: Legality Of Red Light Cameras?

Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:24 pm

Overall I just am more irritated by the excessive fine. I am still struggling financially from missing a month of work when my father passed away this summer, add in his final expenses and medical bills this additional fine is really devistating to me. Next time I see a yellow light I will slam on my brakes with all my force, if someone rear ends me thats their problem.
If the state of California wants to take food off my plate so be it. But for a first offense and running it by .001 of a second is insane.
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: Legality Of Red Light Cameras?

Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:14 pm

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 58):
Overall I just am more irritated by the excessive fine.

Which makes sense. Sounds like you realize you messed up and ran the light, but I agree, that fine is ridiculous. Come run red lights in ND instead, they're only $20 here
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
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zippyjet
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RE: Legality Of Red Light Cameras?

Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:41 am

Quoting cmf (Reply 56):

Yes but, many of these red light cameras malfunction and conveniently err on the side of grabbing you guilty or not.
I'm Zippyjet & I approve this message!
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Legality Of Red Light Cameras?

Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:45 am

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 60):
Yes but, many of these red light cameras malfunction and conveniently err on the side of grabbing you guilty or not.

Just because it takes a picture of you doesn't mean you're guilty. They have officers that review the pictures and throw away the false hits. There isn't much gray area... it will show, in the picture, a red light and then your vehicle... whether your vehicle is in a legal position or not is pretty easy to determine, and with a red light shown in the picture, there isn't much argument for "malfunctioning cameras."
 
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zippyjet
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RE: Legality Of Red Light Cameras?

Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:24 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 61):

The issue at hand in many cases is time before camera clicks. In Maryland, I believe you have to fight it in court and they are not reviewed. So most people just bite the pillow and pony up the fine because of the court costs, lost time from work etc. And, at least in this state, busses and trucks have gone through the red lights/speed zones and gotten photographed and the government looks the other way. There was even a video of a schoolbus flying through a red light and the camera grabbing it and nothing happened.
I'm Zippyjet & I approve this message!
 
cmf
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RE: Legality Of Red Light Cameras?

Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:08 am

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 60):
Yes but, many of these red light cameras malfunction and conveniently err on the side of grabbing you guilty or not.

How common is it really?
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Legality Of Red Light Cameras?

Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:32 pm

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 60):
Yes but, many of these red light cameras malfunction and conveniently err on the side of grabbing you guilty or not.

Do you have a statistic on that?

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 62):
In Maryland, I believe you have to fight it in court

As far as I know, if you decide to fight any moving violation, in any state, you're going to court or the traffic equivalent of it.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
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flymia
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RE: Legality Of Red Light Cameras?

Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:46 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 61):
Just because it takes a picture of you doesn't mean you're guilty. They have officers that review the pictures and throw away the false hits. There isn't much gray area... it will show, in the picture, a red light and then your vehicle... whether your vehicle is in a legal position or not is pretty easy to determine, and with a red light shown in the picture, there isn't much argument for "malfunctioning cameras."

True. But really who is watching this process. What guidelines does the officer have to follow. I guarantee the officer won't be giving any police cars tickets going through red lights.

I have a friend who got a red light violation when he went through the light during a funeral procession which is of course legal. He got the ticket anyway. Guess the cop was not paying attention to that video even though he signed off on it. My friend got a hand written letter from the police chief apologizing for the violation. It is clear no one was actually paying attention, and this is a town known for their speed traps and ridiculous enforcement of traffic laws. Money, Money, Money. That is what it is about.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Legality Of Red Light Cameras?

Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:04 pm

Quoting flymia (Reply 65):
True. But really who is watching this process. What guidelines does the officer have to follow. I guarantee the officer won't be giving any police cars tickets going through red lights.

I'm sure they are biased towards people. A lot of people who are friends with cops will get the cop to talk to the officer that reviews the red light violations and get them removed. And yes, there will be cases where the cops will make mistakes, that is what traffic court is for. It's a huge pain and it pisses me off that you'd have to go through all that pain, but it's legal.

I'm all for removing them except for at trouble intersections or only for cars that blatantly run red lights. It's just not as arbitrary as zippyjet is saying... if it is, I would hope the citizens of BWI (?) would be raising hell because the police shouldn't be getting away with that
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Legality Of Red Light Cameras?

Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:58 pm

Quoting flymia (Reply 65):
I guarantee the officer won't be giving any police cars tickets going through red lights.

As, I'm pretty sure, no police officer would pull over a police car going through a red light.

Quoting flymia (Reply 65):
Money, Money, Money.

Yup. That, and safety...but, definitely money going into the city's coffers. Just like any other moving violation. Just like any parking ticket. This is just a different mode of bringing in the money.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. ~B. Murray
Ego Bibere Capulus, Ut Aliis Sit Vivere
 
flymia
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RE: Legality Of Red Light Cameras?

Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:25 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 66):
I'm all for removing them except for at trouble intersections or only for cars that blatantly run red lights. It's just not as arbitrary as zippyjet is saying... if it is, I would hope the citizens of BWI (?) would be raising hell because the police shouldn't be getting away with that

Agreed. I say keep them where ever they want but they should be going to people running lights in a dangerous fashion. Such as entering the intersection .8-1 seconds after the light turns red. Not 0.1 seconds.

Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 67):
Yup. That, and safety...but, definitely money going into the city's coffers. Just like any other moving violation. Just like any parking ticket. This is just a different mode of bringing in the money.

True. This just makes it much easier for the city to do it. I agree safety has something to do with it but when cities get rid of the cameras because they ended up not making any money and costing more than they were making. It has happened here in Miami I doubt how much safety really has to do with it.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 66):
And yes, there will be cases where the cops will make mistakes, that is what traffic court is for.

Of course everyone makes mistakes. But my friend's example was not a mistake, that was just not watching the video and signing off on it anyway. And the problem with the system in Florida is there is no traffic court unless you want to not pay the fine and get a late fee and then get a ticket. It is a "hearing" with a "hearing officer" its insane if you ask me. But the county courts were so filled up with these red light tickets that the judges had a enough and told the cities to figure it out if they wanted to keep giving them out like candy on Halloween.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Legality Of Red Light Cameras?

Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:44 pm

Quoting flymia (Reply 68):
I agree safety has something to do with it but when cities get rid of the cameras because they ended up not making any money and costing more than they were making. It has happened here in Miami I doubt how much safety really has to do with it.

No, you need to look at the economics of the thing.

We can put a cop on every corner and reduce running a red light to just about zero, but that would be too expensive.

Same things with these cameras. Maybe not enough people were running red lights to make the cameras pay off (that means people were being "safe"). Maybe the cameras did their job and reduced the infraction to the point where it was costing too much money to keep the cameras in place (again, people being "safe"). Maybe, the contractor demanded too much money at contract renewal (the cost of "safety" was too high).

Whichever way it went down, the city decided that the marginal increase in safety wasn't worth the price of the contract.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. ~B. Murray
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