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RE: Thank A Taxpayer For That Happy Meal.

Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:43 am
by PhilBy
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 245):
Part of how they level income is by taxing high earners at excessive levels.

That tax is not a function of minimum wage. It is possible to increase taxes on high earners without introducing a minimum wage. That does not support your arguement.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 247):
disposable income equals freedom.

Only from a very narrow-minded viewpoint. Argueably desert nomads are some of the freest people on this planet and they have zero disposable income. The continual effort to have more money than everyone else and measure value only in financial terms is a self-imposed loss of freedom.

Quoting RomeoBravo (Reply 242):
Not that that matters, the UK will be back in recession in a few years when the latest housing bubble bursts, along with the QE addicted US. No idea about France.

The french housing market was almost (compared to the UK) unaffected by the last burst. Housing prices fell about 2% compared to 20-30% in the UK.
There are much stricter controls on mortages in France. Mortgage not to exceed 60% value of property, total debt payments not to exceed 40% of a household income etc.
As a result France doesn't really have a housing bubble in the same way.
A normal mortgage in France is 10 years. I have a UK colleague who had a 110%, 100year mortgage.

RE: Thank A Taxpayer For That Happy Meal.

Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:56 am
by BMI727
Quoting Philby (Reply 250):
That tax is not a function of minimum wage.

I never said it was. You were talking about leveling of income.

Quoting Philby (Reply 250):
Argueably desert nomads are some of the freest people on this planet and they have zero disposable income.

In some sense perhaps, but how many of them are ever going to retire? Do they have the ability to take a week off for a vacation?

Quoting Philby (Reply 250):
The continual effort to have more money than everyone else and measure value only in financial terms is a self-imposed loss of freedom.

It's just a choice. Besides, if you have money, you have the freedom to do basically anything.

RE: Thank A Taxpayer For That Happy Meal.

Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:43 am
by PhilBy
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 251):
You were talking about leveling of income.

There original post identified that there was a more level spread of income, not that there were active effort to level income. Possibly due to cultural and linguistic differences we have interpreted this differently.

I agree that an active effort to level income spread would require some mechanism to reduce the top as well as raise the base. In the case mentioned the more level salary spread is due to historic and cultural reasons and not due to an attempt to artificially reduce the spread. As such its not that the top earners are ripped off by overtaxation and artifical depression of their pay it's that the market doesn't think that they're worth that much more than anyone else.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 245):
Yeah we know, the French don't like to work.

Nor do the Boeing Machinists. They're fighting to keep their 6 week strike break every three years.

RE: Thank A Taxpayer For That Happy Meal.

Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:14 pm
by romeobravo
Quoting Philby (Reply 250):
The french housing market was almost (compared to the UK) unaffected by the last burst. Housing prices fell about 2% compared to 20-30% in the UK.
There are much stricter controls on mortages in France. Mortgage not to exceed 60% value of property, total debt payments not to exceed 40% of a household income etc.
As a result France doesn't really have a housing bubble in the same way.

No it's because France is incapable of setting central interest rates. The only reason lending standards in the US and UK declined was because interest rates were kept so low for so long.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 248):
Through the 1970s, people who worked did well. The rich did well too. When Clinton helped tax the rich and cut taxes for the poor, everyone did well.

Really, looks like they did pretty poorly to me...



Noticed that wages started to decline since the beginning of fiat currencies. Maybe you need to give up the dems and join the Tea Party.

RE: Thank A Taxpayer For That Happy Meal.

Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:31 pm
by seb146
Quoting RomeoBravo (Reply 253):
Noticed that wages started to decline since the beginning of fiat currencies. Maybe you need to give up the dems and join the Tea Party.

That does not show that we workers were actually taking more home in our paychecks at the end of Clinton's term. I should know. I was one of the millions who were doing better under Clinton. I don't believe in graphs and charts the right wing puts out (or left, for that matter). I go by what happened to me and those in my community. I would rather believe my own lying eyes than a piece of propaganda.

Also, pay no attention to just after 1979 when that graph took a nosedive.

As I have said before, when the tea group first started, before they were hijacked by corporations to become what they are today, they actually had some good ideas. Now, they are just a bunch of Wall. St. elitists screaming bumper sticker slogans.

RE: Thank A Taxpayer For That Happy Meal.

Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:02 pm
by WarRI1
Quoting seb146 (Reply 254):
As I have said before, when the tea group first started, before they were hijacked by corporations to become what they are today, they actually had some good ideas. Now, they are just a bunch of Wall. St. elitists screaming bumper sticker slogans.

What amazes me is how people swallow the poison put out by special interests, who have no other reason to exist than self fulfilment. Many are penniless, yet support those who are responsible for their economic plight. Can anyone imagine an hourly worker supporting Walmart practices? I 'll bet some do. I'll just bet they are happy wallowing in the economic mud, but they hate the government. Go figure.

RE: Thank A Taxpayer For That Happy Meal.

Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:27 pm
by AM744
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 247):
That's a dumb point. Economic equality sucks. Having it means everyone is mediocre. You don't want to be economically equal, you want to be economically superior.

Extremes are bad, economic inequality sucks even more. You say you have no interest in the bottom. Unfortunately, the floor sinks for everybody and catches up with individuals one way or another. Past a certain point it turns into an everyday problem that affects your quality of life even if you are relatively at the top. Of course, if by some reason you end up in the bottom (which, in an unequal and unfair society, may happen despite your best efforts, IQ or whatever) you have it even worst.

RE: Thank A Taxpayer For That Happy Meal.

Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:43 pm
by romeobravo
Quoting seb146 (Reply 254):
That does not show that we workers were actually taking more home in our paychecks at the end of Clinton's term. I should know. I was one of the millions who were doing better under Clinton. I don't believe in graphs and charts the right wing puts out (or left, for that matter). I go by what happened to me and those in my community. I would rather believe my own lying eyes than a piece of propaganda.

Also, pay no attention to just after 1979 when that graph took a nosedive.

That is a simple chart from wiki showing earnings. I don't see how it can be biased. But if you want to use anecdotes in place of facts then that's up to you.

RE 1979 on the contrary, that simply vindicates my point, levels of inflation that are only capable under fiat currencies hurts the poor and transfers wealth to the rich.