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mariner
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Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:21 am

A couple at a restaurant in Kansas had what they said was "excellent service" but didn't tip - they left a note instead:

http://www.edgeonthenet.com/news/wor...ff_waiter,_leave_him_anti-gay_note

"According to Kansas’ CBS affiliate station KCTV, the man (who remains anonymous) works at a Carrabba’s Italian Grill with his mother, who is the restaurant’s host. After serving some customers, the waiter reportedly received a note rather than a tip.

"Thank you for your service, it was excellent. That being said, we cannot in good conscience tip you, for your homosexual lifestyle is an affront to GOD. Fags do not share in the wealth of GOD, and you will not share in ours," the note reads. "We hope you will see the tip your faggot choices made you lose out on, and plan accordingly. It is never too late for GOD’s love, but none shall be spared for fags. May GOD have mercy on you."


Happily, the waiter has had some excellent tips since, because of it, from others, but it begs the question - how did they know he was gay?

And isn't there something about "judge not lest ye be judged"?

mariner
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Airstud
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:26 am

I hope some day those two f-wads see their just desserts for their choices of how to treat people...  banghead 

[Edited 2013-10-25 17:27:58]
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luv2fly
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:28 am

The moral majority tends not to be either.
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AA7295
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:05 am

Is it me... or is it the "religious" people who claim to read and lavish in the "word" of the Bible - THEY are the ones who are evil and going against the "good" in the bible.

Isn't one of the most paramount things in the bible - LOVE THY NEIGHBOR!!
 
photopilot
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:09 am

Quoting mariner (Thread starter):
.......but it begs the question - how did they know he was gay?

Bloody good question. Of course, it also raises the possibility the whole "story" is a fake to garner sympathy or perhaps hoping for some sort of monetary reward. Remember, there have been a number of stories such as this in the news over the last few months. Remember the waitress with the note that said "n*gger"? She ended up quite well rewarded by do-gooders because of this.
So, could this be a case of someone hoping to get a little extra cash?
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:11 am

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 3):
THEY are the ones who are evil and going against the "good" in the bible.

  

Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment: John 7:24
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photopilot
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:23 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 5):
Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment: John 7:24

Leviticus 20:13
"'If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable".

Unfortunately you cannot pick and choose your bible quotes with a generic quote vs a specific one. You lose. Using only selected bible quotes but not acknowledging that the bible also is very specific against your case is intellectually dishonest to say the least.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:45 am

Quoting photopilot (Reply 7):
Unfortunately you cannot pick and choose your bible quotes with a generic quote vs a specific one. You lose.

I agree. I wonder if they were eating shrimp in their pasta:

Quote:
Leviticus 11:9-12
King James Version (KJV)
9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.

10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:

11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.

12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

Unfortunately, many Christians throw out that stupid anti-gay verse from Leviticus and whenever you skip a lines to the "shellfish is an abomination" verse, you get a myriad of BS excuses.

Do you eat shellfish, photopilot? (I'm assuming your Christian.) If not, we can play this game and I can definitely find a Biblical quote you disagree with whether you admit it or tiptoe around the issue like so many do
 
IADCA
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:45 am

Quoting photopilot (Reply 7):
Leviticus 20:13
"'If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable".

Although the general legal principle of specific trumping general is a sound one, it's hard to take your point too seriously when you only quote half the verse. There's that other part, the part about putting them to death.

And how about a couple verses up, 20:10, about giving the death penalty for adultery? How's that one work for you? I mean, it didn't seem to be Jesus' favorite, if you read what happens when the Pharisees try to apply that law to an adulteress in John 8. You know, the rather famous 8:7 about he who is without sin throwing the first stone?
 
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:46 am

Quoting photopilot (Reply 7):
Unfortunately you cannot pick and choose your bible quotes with a generic quote vs a specific one.

ORLY, cuz then you just blew up the christian ponzi scheme. The whole charade (of any religion, really) doesn't work without picking and choosing lines from a book I guarantee you the most ardent christians have never bothered to read or understand.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
solarflyer22
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:47 am

I mean Carrabas sucks anyway and I really doubt they knew for certain that he was gay. I mean maybe he just walked, talked and acted gay but was straight? Like Ryan Seacrest. Only someone that presumes to know the infallible word of god and would also presume that they knew a particular persons orientation based on how they waited tables. Only in America.
 
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mariner
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:08 am

Quoting photopilot (Reply 7):
Unfortunately you cannot pick and choose your bible quotes with a generic quote vs a specific one.

Why not? Christians do that all the time.

Would this couple refuse to tip a waiter because he/she had tattoos, for example?

mariner
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:14 am

Quoting photopilot (Reply 7):
Unfortunately you cannot pick and choose your bible quotes

Then you can't do it either.
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MaverickM11
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:20 am

Quoting dtw9 (Reply 15):
Then I guess you're sending these Christians to the dustbin too

Just tell 'em god will know his own. Wouldn't be the first time christians have used that line in history. When we start holding christians accountable for every single one of their actions the way we do for any other religion maybe we can all have a rational discussion about how ridiculous it all is.
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:22 am

I must admit, that is a new one, and a lousy excuse for being a cheap Bastard. If one is cheap, admit it. Do not bring sex into it to justify being so. Pious suckers to boot.
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:26 am

Quoting photopilot (Reply 7):
Unfortunately you cannot pick and choose your bible quotes with a generic quote vs a specific one. You lose. Using only selected bible quotes but not acknowledging that the bible also is very specific against your case is intellectually dishonest to say the least

I'm very aware of Leviticus 20:13, but you will note that the language is limited to sexual conduct. Basically, the act of homosexual sex is not permissible per Leviticus, but the Bible is silent on the issue of merely "being gay". In short, the Bible does not give this couple grounds to discriminate against somebody because they suspect that they are homosexual. If they choose to do so on the basis of their own prejudices then they have the right to do so, but to incite God in support of their cause is intellectually dishonest to say the least.
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EA CO AS
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:44 am

Every halfway religious person I know (Christian faith, all denominations) views Leviticus as that crazy, racist great-uncle that comes to family reunions; he's there, but no one pays attention because everyone knows he's batshit crazy.

I laugh whenever an anti-religious person whips out quotes from Leviticus with fanfare as if they're unveiling a politician's secret other family or some similar "GOTCHA!" bombshell.

Fact is, the people in this story, if true, do not deserve to call themselves Christians.
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AyostoLeon
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:54 am

Being gay is not a sin. Even if it were, I am reminded of a comment by C.S. Lewis: "To be a Christian means to forgive the inexcusable because God has forgiven the inexcusable in you."

The statement was made on the basis of the parable in Matthew 18 where Jesus taught that the forgiveness of God was infinite and that his followers should model their willingness to forgive upon that of God. He also taught that you can not expect forgiveness from God if you are unwilling to forgive others and your forgiveness is genuine.

This approach followed on from his earlier teaching on being judgmental. He argued that the greater blindness and hypocrisy came from those who sought to control or "show the way" to others.

Yet these two aspects of Christian teaching appear to have been forgotten by those who allegedly left the note. Then again, they may simply have been seeking an excuse to obtain a meal on the cheap, ignoring the passage in Timothy about not muzzling the ox as it treads out the wheat and honouring the services provided by others.

Only those who allegedly left the note will know the truth - as will the God whom they profess to follow.
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Mir
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:17 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 16):
Every halfway religious person I know (Christian faith, all denominations) views Leviticus as that crazy, racist great-uncle that comes to family reunions; he's there, but no one pays attention because everyone knows he's batshit crazy.

I laugh whenever an anti-religious person whips out quotes from Leviticus with fanfare as if they're unveiling a politician's secret other family or some similar "GOTCHA!" bombshell.

Fair enough, but it is the Bible. And if the Bible is the word of God, then Leviticus is part of the word of God. To dismiss it simply because it's crazy (which it is) is cheap and dishonest - what is the theological reason for it being dismissed? The reason had better be something more than "well, it would be inconvenient if we followed it".

Also, if people are going to throw out the "you can't pick and choose which Bible verses you're going to follow" line, then they can't claim that Leviticus doesn't count.

-Mir
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mariner
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:25 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 16):
Every halfway religious person I know (Christian faith, all denominations) views Leviticus as that crazy, racist great-uncle that comes to family reunions; he's there, but no one pays attention because everyone knows he's batshit crazy.

Not every one thinks the uncle is batshit crazy.

My partners's parents, my in-laws, are old-time religion in the midwest, and while they are completely accepting of me, they live in grief because they believe that he is damned to hell, a literal place to them.

They yearn for him to "turn away" from me, not a friend but as a lover, with noting against me, but only for his salvation.

All because of someone you so lightly dismiss as a batshit crazy uncle, who is thrown at us all the time as if to prove that we are "sinners."

mariner

[Edited 2013-10-25 21:26:41]
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dtw9
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:27 am

What makes some of you believe that these were Christians. No where in the article does it refer to "Jesus Christ" or "Christianity". What it does state is their beliefs in their GOD. Last I knew there are any number of religions that beleive in GOD that are not Christian. Kind of ironic that some of you are ASSUMING these people were Christians the same way they ASSUMED this young man to be gay.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:29 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 16):
I laugh whenever an anti-religious person whips out quotes from Leviticus with fanfare as if they're unveiling a politician's secret other family or some similar "GOTCHA!" bombshell.

I usually see OT verses being thrown out after a Christian uses one themselves. The Leviticus quote is a great example... people use it to bash homosexuality and then if you counter it with the shellfish ban, you get a whole bunch of excuses. Ok, if you're gonna throw out the OT, fine, then stop quoting it
 
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seb146
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:45 am

I think the two diners forgot the United States is not a Christian nation. They also forgot, because they are Christian, they follow the laws and teachings of Christ. That would be the New Testament.
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AyostoLeon
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:58 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 16):

And like every other batshit crazy person nevertheless repeats some things that make sense among those that we regard as nonsense.

Some of those things include:
don't steal, deal falsely with or lie to others;
don't defraud or rob your neighbour and pay the labourer his full amount;
don't mock the afflicted;
in judging show neither fear nor favour based on a person's wealth or status;
don't spread malicious rumours or gossip;
don't seek revenge or bear grudges;
don't vex strangers but love them as yourself;

and he even laid out what might be the world's first codified public holidays.

Sure, crazy as they come but JC developed some of those ideas. In the context of this thread, I particularly like the bit about paying the labourer his full amount.
The person with no dignity eats his dinner twice
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:26 am

Quoting photopilot (Reply 4):
Bloody good question. Of course, it also raises the possibility the whole "story" is a fake to garner sympathy or perhaps hoping for some sort of monetary reward. Remember, there have been a number of stories such as this in the news over the last few months. Remember the waitress with the note that said "n*gger"? She ended up quite well rewarded by do-gooders because of this.
So, could this be a case of someone hoping to get a little extra cash?

Is that your shtick? Going around and playing devil's advocate..."you know this might be fake because they want money..." Of course if one is not there who knows. That is not the issue.

Do people like you care to address the real issue at all?
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
kiwiinoz
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:49 am

Ahhh this is why I love being an atheist. We can be free to be bigoted of our own volition rather than the sanctioned brand of bigotry that gets assigned to you depending on which religion you choose.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:33 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 18):
Fair enough, but it is the Bible. And if the Bible is the word of God, then Leviticus is part of the word of God.

The Bible is merely man's written recollection, recorded over the last 2,000 years, of what has been believed to be the word of God.

Quoting Mir (Reply 18):
To dismiss it simply because it's crazy (which it is) is cheap and dishonest - what is the theological reason for it being dismissed?

Because it's not literally the word of God, verbatim. Think of the Bible as a 2,000 year old game of "Telephone" - over the course of 20-plus centuries - most of which where the stories were passed down by word of mouth, not written text - stories and meanings get modified. Names get changed. Interpretations get skewed. And religious scholars know this, and teach the faithful about this as well. I mean, do you honestly think the majority of priests at any church of any Christian denomination would advocate the absolute, literal adoption of every word in the Bible by their congregation? Not too many deaths by stoning taking place these days, y'know.

On "The West Wing", President Josiah Bartlet is depicted as being a somewhat religious man at times, yet here's someone obviously intelligent enough to know the difference between the general theme of the Bible - being good to one another and believing in a higher power - than some of the passages that are inconsistent with that theme, as displayed in one of my favorite scenes of that series:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSXJzybEeJM

Just as others are quick to dismiss the radicals in Islam as being fringe elements of the religion and not slam the religion as a whole, the same is true with Christianity. We have our nutjobs too and are the first to condemn them for the crazy shit they do in the "name of God."

Quoting mariner (Reply 19):
Not every one thinks the uncle is batshit crazy.

No, sadly, not everyone. But the overwhelming majority do.

Those of you who are agnostic or atheist are certainly entitled to your opinions, but slamming those who do believe based on the misguided opinions of what is a fringe element of believers - like these ignorant restaurant patrons - makes you no better than those sad, petty people who wrote that hateful note on the receipt.
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vlad135
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:34 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 22):

I've never understood the whole anti-gay thing because I thought that Christians view the Old Testament as just a recording of history, not rules to live by, with the New Testament having the rules. Does this apply only to certain denominations of Christianity?
 
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ual747den
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:39 am

Quoting photopilot (Reply 6):
Unfortunately you cannot pick and choose your bible quotes with a generic quote vs a specific one. You lose. Using only selected bible quotes but not acknowledging that the bible also is very specific against your case is intellectually dishonest to say the least.

You're kidding right? The bible says whatever you want it to say or whatever works in that moment. It constantly contradicts itself and makes it impossible to live by. If this is "the word of god" it just shows you how confused god was, or maybe it shows us that different people chose to Iive different lives and that's okay. The fact that you told another member "you lose" just shows that you do not live your life based on the teachings of the bible and Christianity.

I firmly believe that one day we will look back on the way we treat gay people like the way we used to treat black people, in complete disgust. Remember that back then the bible and religon was also used to justify the actions of those racist people who treated their fellow humans with such disgust. Hopefully one day we will learn to accept everyone for who they are regardless of how they were born. Even if you believe that being gay is a choice it should not be a reason to hate someone, could you imagine if you were discriminated againt for your choice to be straight or your choice to be Christian or your choice to wear jeans? Its all really the same thing and making a choice to discriminate against someone for their choice on how to show love and who to love and care for is just mind boggling to me.

Just for full disclosure I am a straight man with 4 kids who was raised Catholic. I however no longer consider myself Catholic because I do not agree with their teachings and cannot live my life based on their beliefs.
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blueflyer
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:47 am

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 25):
We can be free to be bigoted of our own volition rather than the sanctioned brand of bigotry that gets assigned to you depending on which religion you choose.

Yeah but you lose a damn good excuse not to tip, admit it!
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Bongodog1964
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:28 am

I think the victim of this act of bigotry may have made a major mistake by publicising this act, if he had kept quiet the pair of nutters might have revisited the restaurant and given him the opportunity to extract the traditional revenge of the catering industry against those who have offended them e.g steak making a quick trip round the edge of the toilet bowl, laxative in the pasta sauce, a few bodily fluids inserted here and there, and of course the opportunity to completely over act when serving them "I know you love a bit of sausage sir"
 
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mariner
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:50 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 26):
Quoting mariner (Reply 19):
Not every one thinks the uncle is batshit crazy.

No, sadly, not everyone. But the overwhelming majority do.

Those of you who are agnostic or atheist are certainly entitled to your opinions, but slamming those who do believe based on the misguided opinions of what is a fringe element of believers - like these ignorant restaurant patrons - makes you no better than those sad, petty people who wrote that hateful note on the receipt.

All of my life, just about every (practising) Christian I have met believes that homosexuality is a sin, and many have told me I am a sinner.

So within my experience it is "more than a few" - it is many.

For the rest of your post, I see no reason to be charitable to those who have tried to hurt me and have certainly hurt many of my friends.

mariner
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AyostoLeon
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:55 am

Quoting vlad135 (Reply 27):

Some churches place little to no emphasis on the Old Testament while others continue to teach from it. Many of the ideas contained in the New Testament are also to be found in the Old. For the founders of the early church the books of the Old Testament provided their basis for the claim that Jesus was the Messiah and provided continuity in change. They may have sought to build a new church with new rules but they did so on the foundation of earlier "law".

The parables that Jesus tells draw on notions already found in scripture and much of what he says can be found in Exodus, Deuteronomy and Leviticus. The new church may have rejected the ritualism, animal sacrifice, the requirement of circumcision and the dietry laws of Judaism but it kept many of the basic ideas relating to treating others with respect, in theory if not always in practice. In doing so they presented their beliefs as being based on tradition while opening them up to a far audience.

Today, many churches see no need to draw on that tradition and argue a complete break between the two, rejecting the Old Testament altogether. Some Christians go further and reject some of the later books of the New Testament.

No disrespect intended to anyone but someone once made a comparison between Christianity and Heinz and drew the conclusion that Heinz was far simpler with only 57 varieties. I guess a Christian is one who defines himself as such. As long as people treat others with respect and bear no ill-will it really doesn't matter what they call themselves.
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ozglobal
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:01 am

Most of what passes for 'Christianity' in the US, isn't.

In the red states of the US, 'Christianity' is more of cultural religiosity than anything else for most people, like Islam in islamic countries - a social norm, a system, a set of rules with which to hit your neighbour over the head and justify injustice in politics and Jesus reserved his most severe condemnations (in all four gospels) for exactly this type of hypocritical pharisaical iniquity. I see no hint of Christ in these people, just deluded self-righteousness and breath-taking selfishness. May they change their ways whilst there is still time.
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
photopilot
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:01 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 7):
Do you eat shellfish, photopilot? (I'm assuming your Christian.)

Absolutely because Your assumption is totally wrong.

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 25):
Ahhh this is why I love being an atheist. We can be free to be bigoted of our own volition rather than the sanctioned brand of bigotry that gets assigned to you depending on which religion you choose.

     

Quoting ual747den (Reply 28):
The fact that you told another member "you lose" just shows that you do not live your life based on the teachings of the bible and Christianity.

Completely correct. I wouldn't give two sh*ts about a 2,000-year-old fairy tale, or any of the other fairy tales reportedly written by the big-finger in the sky. I much prefer this wonderful quote by Epicurus......"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

Of course what's funny in this thread is nobody is addressing the most basic of questions asked..... How did they know he was gay?

[Edited 2013-10-26 02:04:12]
 
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zkojq
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:24 am

It always really pisses me off when people use Christianity to build a barrier between them and others, rather than a bridge. 'Holier than thou' isn't a very good way to compare yourself to others and Christ specifically says that we shouldn't do this and that the judging should be left to God, not us earthlings. One wonders what the people who wrote the note were hoping for. Most hate letters don't cause the recipient to have an epiphany and change their ways (even if sexuality was something they could choose).

The extra sad bit is that these neanderthals probably think that they have made the world a bit better and that somehow this action counts as a 'good deed'.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 16):
Every halfway religious person I know (Christian faith, all denominations) views Leviticus as that crazy, racist great-uncle that comes to family reunions

Heh, I'd never thought of it in those words.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 16):
Fact is, the people in this story, if true, do not deserve to call themselves Christians.
Quoting ual747den (Reply 28):
I firmly believe that one day we will look back on the way we treat gay people like the way we used to treat black people, in complete disgust.

  

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(former youth-pastor)
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ImperialEagle
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:35 am

Quoting mariner (Thread starter):
how did they know he was gay?

Yeah. I don't know about this article. Maybe just written to stir up s$%t.

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 10):
straight? Like Ryan Seacrest.

Ryan Seacest, straight?       

Quoting dtw9 (Reply 20):
Kind of ironic that some of you are ASSUMING these people were Christians the same way they ASSUMED this young man to be gay.

There is a point.

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 30):
"I know you love a bit of sausage sir"

      

Quoting mariner (Reply 31):
All of my life, just about every (practising) Christian I have met believes that homosexuality is a sin, and many have told me I am a sinner.

Same here. My response has always been "and you too are a sinner. So get the F%$K out of my way so I can go right on back to sinning a$$hole."  
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LO231
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:39 am

Quoting photopilot (Reply 6):

So how could they know he acted upon his preference? He might have behave more feminine, but they didnt look in to his bedroom did they now?

Bunch of biggots. Their pic should be spread so they can be banned at other places.
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IH8BY
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:41 am

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 30):
I think the victim of this act of bigotry may have made a major mistake by publicising this act, if he had kept quiet the pair of nutters might have revisited the restaurant and given him the opportunity to extract the traditional revenge of the catering industry against those who have offended them e.g steak making a quick trip round the edge of the toilet bowl, laxative in the pasta sauce, a few bodily fluids inserted here and there, and of course the opportunity to completely over act when serving them "I know you love a bit of sausage sir"

But what kind of response is that, really? It's not going to make them disapprove of you any less, or make the conservative world love gays any more, even if it doesn't get found out. The debate is better out in the open. That way (even if the story isn't true) the public can make a judgement about whether it's really appropriate to make a decision based on this kind of prejudice (and it is prejudice, because there's no evidence they knew he was gay, nor that he was engaging in gay sexual activity).

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 3):

Isn't one of the most paramount things in the bible - LOVE THY NEIGHBOR!!

Well, yes. However, this is often quoted around without realising what conservative Christians may be understanding by the word 'love'. So off I go on a tangent...

Having been to a university institution with a strong Christian ethos, there was a diverse community of various different Christian groups. Dominant, however, was the conservative evangelical faction. Many of them, as people trying to excuse prejudice often say, were my friends. Their attitude towards homosexuality and the 'promotion of homosexuality' was, perhaps unsurprisingly, one of great concern, to the point at which there had previously been opposition to LGBT association meetings being held on the premises.

As friends I found many of these people exceptionally caring and intelligent, but I couldn't quite fathom their position regarding gay people, particularly those who weren't Christian (why should it matter, I thought?). Wasn't it a lack of unconditional love on their part? It didn't seem to be a case of 'hating the unknown' - many of them had grown up in diverse and liberal communities, and knew many gay people.

However, if you have very 'by the book' Christian beliefs (i.e. a belief in the complete infallibility of the entire biblical text, both OT and NT) then your understanding would be that people who participate in homosexual activity are going to hell. Even my Revised English Bible, which is considered too liberal by conservatives, states:

"If a man has intercourse with a man as with a woman, both commit an abomination. They must be put to death; their blood be on their own heads!"

You then have to put yourself in their shoes. You want to prevent people you know from going to hell. Is it 'love' to let them continue on a path of apparent self-destruction? If you could save people from hell, wouldn't you? Even if it meant making a statement that you knew would be controversial?

As such many conservative Christians would not see any conflict between the statement' love thy neighbor' and their opposition to homosexuality. This may be wrong, but I see it as different from a hatred of gays based on unfamiliarity and prejudice - the sort of viewpoint that leads to homophobic violence etc. However, intentionally or otherwise, the former helps create a climate that allows the latter to thrive.

Much of Leviticus, not just this verse, makes difficult reading. I remember as a teenager reading the Bible, starting with the Gospels and Acts, and then moving onto the Old Testament. I stopped my 'reading through' after Leviticus because I found the concepts and the language too difficult to deal with. If you happen to be someone who takes the entire text as the divinely inspired word, you might say that verse is very difficult to ignore. However, it annoys me intensely that Christians are quite happy to focus on this one verse over pretty much any other. Conservative Christians seem obsessed with homosexuality, yet as often very economically conservative frequently ignore poverty and need across the world and uphold the divisions that Christ endeavoured to break down.

Many of those who say the words of the OT are infallible still only honour the supposedly 'infallible' statements that they know will never apply to them. You'll say 'but even if you disagree with their sexual activity can't you see the good in these people?' and be told 'sin is sin is sin'. In the worst of them, you almost perceive that the joy is not so much that they are saved but that others are not. They'll happily - and sometimes mendaciously - trot out the 'hate the sin, love the sinner' maxim, forgetting that we are all sinners in God's eyes. Even the most pious conservatives sin every day - as the liturgy says, in thought and word and deed. Who are conservatives to define what sin is and which sins may be forgiven?

However:

The statement in the note to the waiter strikes me as inflammatory (a bit WBC, perhaps) and not based on a thinking-but-misguided conservative Christian position but on sheer ignorance and prejudice. There we go - I've rendered my whole post irrelevant in a single sentence.

 
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:19 pm

Quoting photopilot (Reply 34):
Of course what's funny in this thread is nobody is addressing the most basic of questions asked..... How did they know he was gay?

In some situations it is pretty clear, but in other situations it may seem clear but is anything but. I am often mistaken for being gay because of my appearance I think (I dress in nice clothes, won't leave the house without my hair being perfectly styled, and always have a fresh smelling cologne on) which in itself is wrong but that just seems to be the reality of the world today sadly.....
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Bongodog1964
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:14 pm

Quoting IH8BY (Reply 38):
Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 30):I think the victim of this act of bigotry may have made a major mistake by publicising this act, if he had kept quiet the pair of nutters might have revisited the restaurant and given him the opportunity to extract the traditional revenge of the catering industry against those who have offended them e.g steak making a quick trip round the edge of the toilet bowl, laxative in the pasta sauce, a few bodily fluids inserted here and there, and of course the opportunity to completely over act when serving them "I know you love a bit of sausage sir"
But what kind of response is that, really? It's not going to make them disapprove of you any less, or make the conservative world love gays any more, even if it doesn't get found out. The debate is better out in the open. That way (even if the story isn't true) the public can make a judgement about whether it's really appropriate to make a decision based on this kind of prejudice (and it is prejudice, because there's no evidence they knew he was gay, nor that he was engaging in gay sexual activity).

My post wasn't meant as a serious suggestion, on the other hand as there is likely to be no way of any official action being taken against these bigots, food poisoning and making them feel very uncomfortable by repeated use of innuendo is probably the only way of seeking retribution.
 
MD-90
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:18 pm

Well, the note does seem rather too politely written to be from the Westboro heathens.
 
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Aesma
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:18 pm

I'd say the real problem is that in the US you can pay waiters almost nothing and let them rely on "tips" to live. The idea that it motivates them is not good enough as in other places there are still tips, it's just an add on to the salary, besides, if your waiter is lazy it's very simple to fire him/her in the US anyway.

Quoting dtw9 (Reply 20):
What makes some of you believe that these were Christians. No where in the article does it refer to "Jesus Christ" or "Christianity". What it does state is their beliefs in their GOD. Last I knew there are any number of religions that beleive in GOD that are not Christian. Kind of ironic that some of you are ASSUMING these people were Christians the same way they ASSUMED this young man to be gay.

Ever heard of anybody other than US Christians acting in such a way ? Besides other religions don't call god god usually.

Quoting vlad135 (Reply 27):
I've never understood the whole anti-gay thing because I thought that Christians view the Old Testament as just a recording of history, not rules to live by, with the New Testament having the rules. Does this apply only to certain denominations of Christianity?

Certainly true for Catholics, in fact they often carry only the new testament. As a former Catholic I own one "full bible" and a dozen new testaments. In catechism we only studied the latter, in a modern translation.

But I agree that the worse part in the story is the probable hypocrisy of the people who wrote the note, concentrating on homosexuality while letting many other sins go (including their own). It would be a little bit easier to accept judgment if the judges were really saints. Of course saints usually don't judge !
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photopilot
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:01 pm

Hmmmm.... interesting chain of "facts" in this story.

The "Edge", a specific LGBT on-line news portal quotes all their story as being "According to Kansas’ CBS affiliate station KCTV", yet nowhere in the KCTV story does the word "fags" appear. Wonder how that word then got substituted into the KCTV report who had only said "homosexual slur"? Is there a little editorializing going on by the Edge?
 
mt99
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:35 pm

Quoting photopilot (Reply 34):
How did they know he was gay?

Why does it matter how they "knew" he was gay?
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seb146
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:45 pm

Quoting vlad135 (Reply 27):
Does this apply only to certain denominations of Christianity?

Because Christ was Jewish, and he used his knowledge of the Old Testament and early prophets for his teachings, some churches keep the OT around. What I was led to believe was that once Christ fulfilled His prophecy, the Old Testament was no longer useful, except as reference to His teachings. Also, keep in mind that, in the early days of the church, a group of self-proclaimed "holy men" got together and decided which stories to keep and how to group them.
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:51 pm

Quoting mariner (Thread starter):
but it begs the question - how did they know he was gay?

Some men are very obviously gay, god knows why they have to act like they fairies but they do. I've always wondered why some gay men act like fairies, a guy I was friends with for years came out, before he was your average beer drinking, rugby playing kiwi bloke; pretty successful with the ladies to. After he came out he turned into (for lack of a better description) the biggest dandiest poof you ever met. His voice changed, his mannerisms changed, basically he turned into Julian Clary.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 7):

Unfortunately, many Christians throw out that stupid anti-gay verse from Leviticus and whenever you skip a lines to the "shellfish is an abomination" verse, you get a myriad of BS excuses.

The main problem with the bible Delta is that's it a bunch of made up bs, designed to keep the little people down and enrich the church.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 29):

Yeah but you lose a damn good excuse not to tip, admit it!

Some like me don't need a good excuse to not tip, I refuse to and won't buy into it, it's a bs tradition that only encourages poor service.
 
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seb146
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:05 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 46):
I've always wondered why some gay men act like fairies

I have worked with men who are effeminate but are happily married to a woman and they have children. Other men are gritty and earthy but only enjoy the company of men. I never ever look at a man and know. I don't know how this customer could possibly know. Unless he had some... "knowledge" of the waiter?
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Kiwirob
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:18 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 47):

I have worked with men who are effeminate but are happily married to a woman and they have children.

They're probably banging blokes in dodgy locations whenever they can get away from the wife   
 
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:29 pm

Quoting mariner (Thread starter):
According to Kansas’ CBS affiliate station KCTV, the man (who remains anonymous) works at a Carrabba’s Italian Grill with his mother, who is the restaurant’s host. After serving some customers, the waiter reportedly received a note rather than a tip.

What sort of attention whore one must be to call the TV station because of a non-story like this. It must have been a slow news day back in Kansas.

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