photopilot
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:58 pm

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 49):
What sort of attention whore one must be to call the TV station because of a non-story like this. It must have been a slow news day back in Kansas.

LMAO!!!! Yup, every time I get insulted the first place I run is to the local TV station and cry on their shoulder. But always remember the old axiom.... Follow the Money. Where the article notes; ".....other customers are coming in to offer words of encouragement and tip the young server extra."
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:59 pm

Quoting photopilot (Reply 6):
Unfortunately you cannot pick and choose your bible quotes with a generic quote vs a specific one. You lose. Using only selected bible quotes but not acknowledging that the bible also is very specific against your case is intellectually dishonest to say the least.

Handy enough for me. I'm atheist. There is very little in either of those books that can be demonstrated to be true. Most of what is true in the Bible is place names. It's even debatable whether there was a single Jesus or whether he was a fable or a collection of men (the same is true of Hippocrates).

And so trying to tell me how I should live based on that book just isn't gonna fly with me.

Besides:

Quote:
"Leviticus 25:44-46 ESV

As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly."

There are a bunch of other passages on the subject. And so if you support slavery, then you should follow the Bible. If you think that slavery is morally wrong, then the Bible is not a good book for you.

As you said, this is the Bible; you can't just pick and choose which parts you like. You either take it whole... or not at all. And I choose the latter.
-Doc Lightning-

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mariner
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:49 pm

Quoting IH8BY (Reply 38):
"If a man has intercourse with a man as with a woman, both commit an abomination. They must be put to death; their blood be on their own heads!"

Probably the most famous verse in the bible as far as this debate is concerned, and one that has been used for millennia as a stick to beat, bash - and kill - gays.

But I always thought Christians were supposed to be more concerned with their own immortal soul, and it is simple arrogance for them to assume that they are "without sin" - whatever sin is.

I don't see that it should affect me. I don't "believe." I have not "believed" since I was seventeen and a priest told me I am a sinner damned to hell - while at the same time telling me that God made me.

If that's true, then this God should take some responsibility because I didn't choose this.

mariner
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allegiantflyer
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:14 pm

Quoting IH8BY (Reply 38):
Many of those who say the words of the OT are infallible still only honour the supposedly 'infallible' statements that they know will never apply to them.

See this is another thing wrong with Christians. there is no "New Testament" did god himself come back down to earth and re write the entire bible? NO! Christians changed it themselves because they got embarrassed for what they believe i.e, Not being able to eat shellfish etc. Yet when they re wrote it they kept in the whole gay thing, and when i was first coming to terms with my self it made things so difficult. but then i realized religion is a ton of made up BS.
 
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:05 pm

Quoting photopilot (Reply 34):
of course what's funny in this thread is nobody is addressing the most basic of question... How did they know he was gay?

The husband probably slept with him.
Pancakes are delicious.
 
AR385
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:07 pm

Quoting photopilot (Reply 4):
Of course, it also raises the possibility the whole "story" is a fake to garner sympathy
Quoting photopilot (Reply 34):
Of course what's funny in this thread is nobody is addressing the most basic of questions asked..... How did they know he was gay?

Why does it matter if they knew or not if he was gay.

1) They stiffed him with his tip, and he deserved according to what they wrote.

2) They made their bigoted, sanctimonious, hypocritical and dangerous view about homosexuals public and unambigous. That is, the "basic issue" of it, not "how did they know he was gay" as you put it.
 
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johnboy
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:58 pm

I wanna see more evidence too.

And if this is a credit card receipt, you'd better believe I'd be posting the names of the people far and wide.

On another note, I'm shocked that i'm even in a tiny amount of agreement with one of A.net's most virulently anti--gay posters.
{hangs head in shame}
 
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mariner
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:05 pm

Quoting photopilot (Reply 43):
The "Edge", a specific LGBT on-line news portal quotes all their story as being "According to Kansas’ CBS affiliate station KCTV", yet nowhere in the KCTV story does the word "fags" appear.

Many newspapers (and media generally) will not print or use the word "fag"- it is viewed in the same way as the "n" word.

This one does use it:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...gay-message-no-tip-_n_4163475.html

This one doesn't, it avoids most (not all) of the note:

http://www.ktiv.com/story/23793867/2.../man-refused-tip-because-he-is-gay

As does Kansa.com:

http://www.kansas.com/2013/10/25/307...ay-message-left-for-carrabbas.html

This one uses "slur" and "homosexual slur" in brackets in place of the word fag:

http://www.ryot.org/no-tip-gay-waite...homophobic-note-from-aholes/442537

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photopilot
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:24 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 57):
Many newspapers (and media generally) will not print or use the word "fag"- it is viewed in the same way as the "n" word.

You're missing the point entirely. After spending 20 years as a journalist what we have here is nothing more than a circular news reporting loop. Each "media" is quoting another media for their story. The only original reporting appears to be the KCTV report. Now.... the original report of the story by the media source that "broke" the story, does not use the word "fag" which leads to the question where was the fag wording introduced into the news reporting circle?

Also.... all these news sources and not one of the reporters/media says...."show us the note"? Now in J school, the first thing any professor would tell a budding journalist is CHECK YOUR SOURCES!!!! I don't even see a single story that says "We asked to see the note and the restaurant declined". WHY? Where's the journalistic integrity?

All we have is an anonymous server, with an anonymous mother, with anonymous "perps", and no note presented. Does that not make you ask the question WHY or PROVE IT? There's an awful lot missing from this story and it isn't taking sides to ask the tough questions and expect a reasonable answer.
 
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mariner
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:42 am

Quoting photopilot (Reply 58):
All we have is an anonymous server, with an anonymous mother, with anonymous "perps", and no note presented.

At least one station - KMBC9 (which, I believe, is different from KCTV5?) - claims to have Facebook as their source, but maybe they did steal it from KCTV5 and don't want to name a competitor as their source - although the firestorm does seem to have started on social media.

Can people tell fibs on Facebook? Of course, all the time. Can this be one such case? Of course, it may be, but there is enough to make it persuasive, especially when the pastor reads the note. Maybe he's in on it, too, but I can't think why he would be.

As with most conspiracy theories, such as yours here, I don't see any gain for anyone.

Quoting photopilot (Reply 58):
Does that not make you ask the question WHY or PROVE IT?

I fully accept there may be more to it than meets the eye - or less - but most of my life, gay stuff has been "hidden" - unprovable - precisely because of societal disapprobation. Having lived in Kansas, I can fully understand why a young gay man would not want his name blasted all over the media, or his mother.

The mother may not be named but the restaurant is, and its address, and she is directly quoted, so she's obviously not too hard to find:

http://www.kctv5.com/story/23784990/...server-other-patrons-rally-around-

Perhaps I should add that I don't have the same high regard for too many journalists that you seem to have. Most of my experiences with journalists have been - unfortunate - and I have seen the truth, even direct quotes, twisted to fit in with the journalists own preconceptions or attitudes.

mariner

[Edited 2013-10-26 18:53:18]
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Ken777
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:24 am

Quoting mariner (Thread starter):
Happily, the waiter has had some excellent tips since, because of it, from others, but it begs the question - how did they know he was gay?

It's possibly a simple assumption - anyone who is not totally masculine is "obviously gay".

Quoting photopilot (Reply 6):
Leviticus 20:13
"'If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable".

I always have problems with passages like this none. IIRC mod to fate Bible was written in sand script. Was "detestable word in sand script? Doubt it.

I certainly don't believe that the obscene comments on the check was anything close to a religious comment. It was simply a hate message from a genuine cheapskate.

And, it it is a woman who "does with a woman" the bigot might well say, "Can I watch? I'll pay!".

Personally I'd like to see there guy's name made public so future waiters can prepare themselves. And deliver service levels that are consistent with the anticipated tip.

Quoting photopilot (Reply 6):
Using only selected bible quotes but not acknowledging that the bible also is very specific against your case is intellectually dishonest to say the least.

The customer's comments were about as far from honest as you can get. The guy is simply a cheap bigot.

Of course he might go back to that restaurant again - no telling how clean the hands making his sapid will be, or what will be going into his soup.

Quoting mariner (Reply 31):
All of my life, just about every (practising) Christian I have met believes that homosexuality is a sin, and many have told me I am a sinner.

This is the sad part about hard line religions. All believe that they, and only they, have the Keys to Heaven and they are very fast to pass judgement. Fortunately there are many devout individuals (of all religions) who have a balance in life and are able to accept "others"

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 51):
As you said, this is the Bible; you can't just pick and choose which parts you like. You either take it whole... or not at all.

Actually I can choose what to believe. I had a Religion prof many years ago that explained how Bibles were originally hand copied. If the scribe left something out he would simple write it in the margins. Only the wealthy (and literate) owned Bibles because of the costs and it was not uncommon for them to make their own notes on their thinking in the margins. These were the same Bibles that were loaned out to be copied for others and the scribes would simply include those notes on the margins - assuming that they were bits left out by previous scribes.

Some of the offensive comments, like those against gays, are, IMO, simply bigoted comments from some wealthy Bible owners. No different that the bigoted comments we hear today. That is what I choose to believe as it explains away those parts that I find offensive.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:47 am

I'm not going into bible quotes. I'll just say its not right to judge a tip based upon some persons sexual orientation. If they give good service, im tipping good.

KH
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FlyboyOz
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:57 am

lol... Remember nobody is perfect but God loves sinners (we are all sinners (including Christians too)) but hates sin.

Love your enemies as well..
Matthew 5:44
"But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you".

Those guys aren't real Christian and has no understanding how to love/help other people. If someone did bad things to me, I can forgive them, help them and also pray for them to change. For example, a Christian woman was robbed by a thief but later she gave a him some money to buy food. It shows that she has forgiven him and helped him to change.
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shaq
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:36 am

I don't understand this type of people.
I'm christian, I believe firmly in GOD. Homosexuality is a sin, but God also says to love our brothers, as we love ourselves. It doesn't says you only have to love people of your race, of your socioeconomic status, of your same line of tought. NO! It only says to love them.
If you prefer men over women, I don't care. If you respect me, i will respect you. It's your problem
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BestWestern
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:21 am

Quoting SHAQ (Reply 63):
Homosexuality is a sin

Even my father, a very much right of centre catholic, doesn't believe homosexuality is a sin.
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EA CO AS
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:24 am

Quoting SHAQ (Reply 63):
Homosexuality is a sin

Oh! Now you did it....   
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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Aesma
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:54 pm

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 49):
What sort of attention whore one must be to call the TV station because of a non-story like this. It must have been a slow news day back in Kansas.

I'm guessing this started on facebook/twitter, not TV. Young people don't care about TV.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 46):
Some men are very obviously gay, god knows why they have to act like they fairies but they do. I've always wondered why some gay men act like fairies, a guy I was friends with for years came out, before he was your average beer drinking, rugby playing kiwi bloke; pretty successful with the ladies to. After he came out he turned into (for lack of a better description) the biggest dandiest poof you ever met. His voice changed, his mannerisms changed, basically he turned into Julian Clary.

Some men can act like this and still be hetero or bisexual (and be successful with the ladies too). As for your friend, have you thought that perhaps he was playing an act before, and it was not enjoyable for him ?

Finally, why should we all act identically, diversity is good !
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:58 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 66):
As for your friend, have you thought that perhaps he was playing an act before, and it was not enjoyable for him ?

I've known him since he was 5, I doubt he could have kept up playing an act for 20 years. I don't have any problem with him being gay, it's just what he turned into and that was a bit of a joke.
 
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akiss20
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:00 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 67):
I've known him since he was 5, I doubt he could have kept up playing an act for 20 years.

That's a joke right? If not, you clearly don't know what it is like for lots of gay people out there. People have kept up acts for a lot longer than 20 years...
Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are
 
AyostoLeon
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:49 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 46):
Quoting Aesma (Reply 66):

I agree that many people do hide their identities over many years out of fear of how they will be received. The biggest fear is probably rejection by one's own family and the people you hope are friends. Ironically friends are sometimes more accepting than family.

But the question remains whether coming out necessitates adopting a persona that may be seen as either pastiche or parody, assuming a change in mannerisms is seen as reflecting a true identity.

Perhaps for some people a transition from totally straight, macho male acting needs a period of in your face campness to say "I don't care what you think" before a person becomes comfortable and is accepted for who they are: a person and not a sexual classification.
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Revelation
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:50 pm

Quoting photopilot (Reply 6):
Unfortunately you cannot pick and choose your bible quotes with a generic quote vs a specific one. You lose. Using only selected bible quotes but not acknowledging that the bible also is very specific against your case is intellectually dishonest to say the least.
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 51):
As you said, this is the Bible; you can't just pick and choose which parts you like. You either take it whole... or not at all.

I don't abide by the 'all or nothing' rule or the 'generic to specific ranking' rule. In my opinion it's just another source of information, and it's one that is known to be flawed (see below). There are parts of it that resonate with me and enrich me and that I feel are consistent with the teachings of Jesus and these are the ones I 'pick and choose'. Other parts such as the sections on homosexuality, shellfish and slaves clearly aren't consistent with the teachings of Jesus and with my own understanding of God and these I reject. There are parts in between these extremes that are things I don't understand well enough to embrace or reject. I'm a sentient being 'made in the image of God' but not actually God, so I get to apply my understanding to The Word.

That's the great thing about being an adult - we can all decide what this all means to us.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 26):
Because it's not literally the word of God, verbatim. Think of the Bible as a 2,000 year old game of "Telephone" - over the course of 20-plus centuries - most of which where the stories were passed down by word of mouth, not written text - stories and meanings get modified.

Absolutely correct. Also keep in mind the Old Testament was written in ancient Hebrew spoken by the scholars of the Temple. Jesus spoke in Aramaic but the New Testament was written down in Greek decades (and in some cases centuries) after his death. It was translated from ancient Greek and popularized to English speakers via the King James Bible, whose English is closer to that of Shakespeare than of today. A wonderful piece of work, but it introduces its own distortions.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 26):
someone obviously intelligent enough to know the difference between the general theme of the Bible - being good to one another and believing in a higher power - than some of the passages that are inconsistent with that theme

  

It really is that simple. I wish more understood this, instead of wrapping it into so many different things so far from these simple ideas. No real need to question what 'is is', etc.
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mariner
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:14 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 70):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 26):
someone obviously intelligent enough to know the difference between the general theme of the Bible - being good to one another and believing in a higher power - than some of the passages that are inconsistent with that theme

  

It really is that simple. I wish more understood this, instead of wrapping it into so many different things so far from these simple ideas. No real need to question what 'is is', etc.

All of which could be said about the Koran with its own few passages about homosexuality.

It is difficult for me to understand how anyone who is not gay can claim to know how these passages, in both books, affect people who are gay.

mariner
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Aesma
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:24 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 70):
It really is that simple. I wish more understood this, instead of wrapping it into so many different things so far from these simple ideas. No real need to question what 'is is', etc.

I disagree. Religion is all about rules. If you throw the rules out, you throw the religion with it. I prefer religious people who do it anyway over those who follow blindly, though, I was raised by such people and it greatly helped me towards atheism !
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AyostoLeon
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:04 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 71):

It is safe to say that neither the Bible as we know it nor the Qur'an endorse homosexuality. While the Bible specifically condemns it, the Qur'an makes no mention but nevertheless in Islam it is regarded as a form of adultery .While I do not support this view, in general the scriptures do not condemn an attraction but they do condemn the decision to act upon it. The closest the Bible comes to condeming thought rather than action is when JC condemns divorce other than on grounds of the wife committing adultery and it is not clear whether his objection is based on morality or the fact that the woman might be left destitute. However the mere thought of lusting after someone else other than one's wife was regarded as sin. George Orwell might have had a word or two to say on that, not so much the wife bit but the thinking.

While you may question why any one who is not gay can understand how these passages can affect those who are, I can only counterpose, how can many people who profess to be Christian nevertheless be welcoming of people who are gay? Perhaps they concentrate on other parts of scripture, that they see as being essential.

Perhaps we (all of us) should judge by what people do, rather than by what JC is reported to have said. As mentioned before, it does not matter what people call themselves as long as they treat others with respect and without ill will.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 72):

Religion is not just about rules.It may posit a God as being the source of good behaviour but it does provide a basis for ethics and morality. Note that I do not subscribe to the view that without religion there can be no ethics or morality. Religion typically goes further and embraces fields that became seperated into philosophy, etc, etc,

To criticise religion as being ascientific is one thing: to condemn it for providing rules is absurd because every other political philosophy does the same. To criticise indvidual rules, or the source of rules, is one thing but criticise setting of rules is ridiculous if only for the reason that without rules society is impossible.The major issue is whether rules are blindly enforced from above or whether they are accepted after considerstion by the electorate.

[Edited 2013-10-27 13:06:07]
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klm672
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:11 pm

You can usually tell is someone is gay by their mannerisms...
 
AR385
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:17 pm

Quoting klm672 (Reply 74):
You can usually tell is someone is gay by their mannerisms...

You are completely wrong about that.
 
AyostoLeon
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:29 pm

Quoting klm672 (Reply 74):

Of course, you are joking but to play along:
Why look, there's that guy helping his mother up the stairs. He MUST be gay.
Another guy remembered his friend's birthday. He MUST be gay.
Oh look. He sings in a church choir. Well, I ask you, is HE gay?
See that guy pumping iron with the moustache? OBVIOUSLY gay.
That guy living in the back woods. Never married. OF COURSE he's gay.
Obama once held someone's hand. DEFINITELY gay.
Oh my God. I looked at that man before he stepped out onto the road in front of my car. AM I GAY?
You responded to this thread. Are you...?

[Edited 2013-10-27 13:31:50]
The person with no dignity eats his dinner twice
 
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mariner
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:42 pm

Quoting AyostoLeon (Reply 73):
While the Bible specifically condemns it, the Qur'an makes no mention but nevertheless in Islam it is regarded as a form of adultery .

Hmmm?

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/026-homosexuality.htm

"Qur'an (7:80-84) - "...For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.... And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)" - An account that is borrowed from the Biblical story of Sodom. Muslim scholars through the centuries have interpreted the "rain of stones" on the town as meaning that homosexuals should be stoned, since no other reason is given for the people's destruction. (The story is also repeated in suras 27 and 29)."

Quoting AyostoLeon (Reply 73):
While you may question why any one who is not gay can understand how these passages can affect those who are, I can only counterpose, how can many people who profess to be Christian nevertheless be welcoming of people who are gay?

Since I'm not Christian, or any sort of "believer", that doesn't resolve my issue - how can anyone who isn't gay claim to know how it is to be gay?

Many Christians tell me it is a choice. I'd like to know how they know that, because it wasn't a choice for me.

Mostly, rather than defences of religions that have persecuted homosexuals, I prefer the honesty of the Archbishop of Canterbury:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...elby-homophobia-anti-gay-prejudice

"Justin Welby gets real on homophobia. Welby knows that young people detest anti-gay prejudice, and is telling his church.

"The church has not been good at dealing with it. We have implicitly and even explicitly supported [homophobia] and that demands repentance.""


mariner

[Edited 2013-10-27 13:44:50]
aeternum nauta
 
AyostoLeon
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:21 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 77):

How can anybody who is not blind undestand what it is like to be blind?

How can anybody who is not deaf understand what it is like to be deaf?

Sure, deafness and blindness are not regarded as sin but people have been perfectly willing to discriminate against both.

How can any man understand what it is like to be a woman?

How can a gentile understand what it is like to be a Jew? A white Australian to know what it is to be an Aborigine or indigenous Australian?

The answer might be, they don't and can't any more than a gay or queer can really understand what it is like to be straight and the expectations imposed on straights who conform.

At best people can attempt to empathise with others if not wholly understand. Some Christians manage to do that even if others don't. I am not sure if there is anything to be gained from condeming all on the basis of a shibboleth repeated by a vociferous section.
The person with no dignity eats his dinner twice
 
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mariner
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:13 pm

Quoting AyostoLeon (Reply 78):
How can anybody who is not blind undestand what it is like to be blind?

How can anybody who is not deaf understand what it is like to be deaf?

Sure, deafness and blindness are not regarded as sin but people have been perfectly willing to discriminate against both.

How can any man understand what it is like to be a woman?

How can a gentile understand what it is like to be a Jew? A white Australian to know what it is to be an Aborigine or indigenous Australian?

All true. But obviously blindness and deafness isn't a choice. Being black isn't a supposed choice, either, or a woman.

Christians have told Jews they shouldn't be Jews, of course, and have burnt Jews at the stake - and worse - for not converting, even though Christians worship a Jew.

But I don't know what any of this has to do with the matter at hand, which is why do many Christians presume to tell me that my sexuality is a choice.

mariner

[Edited 2013-10-27 16:16:31]
aeternum nauta
 
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Revelation
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:33 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 72):
I disagree. Religion is all about rules. If you throw the rules out, you throw the religion with it. I prefer religious people who do it anyway over those who follow blindly, though, I was raised by such people and it greatly helped me towards atheism !

Atheists here seem to be telling me what the nature of my belief system is, then use that to proclaim they are glad they aren't a part of it - I don't get it.

Yes, some religious / spiritual people are close minded, conformist, and racked with fears and guilts but I'm not understanding why others seem to want to lump me in with them.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
kiwiinoz
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:01 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 80):
Atheists here seem to be telling me what the nature of my belief system is, then use that to proclaim they are glad they aren't a part of it - I don't get it.Yes, some religious / spiritual people are close minded, conformist, and racked with fears and guilts but I'm not understanding why others seem to want to lump me in with them.

I think you can be spiritual, and have a personal relationship with God in the way that you describe

But the confines of an organised religion seem different. The luxury to pick and choose the rules you follow certainly didn't used to be an option.

My point earlier with this couple is that religion often takes weak-minded people and tells them what theur beliefs should be, rather than a person with a set of beliefs formed themselves allignning to a religion that fits.

Someone who invokes the word of God to justify some kind of hatred is the lowest rung of the human race, Zero free thought, zero humanity, just a pupett of some religious regime. The individual is barely worth discussion, but the societal impact of the regime certainly is.
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:15 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 80):
Atheists here seem to be telling me what the nature of my belief system is, then use that to proclaim they are glad they aren't a part of it - I don't get it.

If I have learned anything in my years, it is be true to yourself. You do not owe anyone an explanation of your beliefs. I was raised a Catholic. I still consider myself one, yet I follow my own conscience, not theirs. People who do follow blindly, or believe in nothing will learn just like we all do at a certain time, whether they were right, or wrong. If you are satisfied with your beliefs, that is all that matters..

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 81):
I think you can be spiritual, and have a personal relationship with God in the way that you describe

I agree, I believe in God. I do not attend church on a regular basis. Do I believe that I will be condemned? Of course I do not. I have followed a code which I consider honorable. I have fulfilled my obligations to others. I do not hate. I do believe in smiting my enemies in war. We all have a personal relationship with God, in my opinion. Once again, we all find out.

[Edited 2013-10-27 19:17:28]
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
kiwiinoz
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:24 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 82):
We all have a personal relationship with God, in my opinion

But some get the neature of their relationships dictated to them via the conventions of their religion. So it may not be completely personal

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 82):
I do believe in smiting my enemies in war.

Who defines who your enemies are? Yourself? God? Country? Politician?
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:33 am

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 83):
But some get the neature of their relationships dictated to them via the conventions of their religion. So it may not be completely personal
Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 82):
If I have learned anything in my years, it is be true to yourself
Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 82):
I still consider myself one, yet I follow my own conscience, not theirs

As I said, be true to yourself.

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 83):
Who defines who your enemies are? Yourself? God? Country? Politician?

I have a well defined definition and opinion of who my and my countries enemies are. I did say in war. I do support my country and my government.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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mad99
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:54 am

Open your eyes!!

He's gay
He has sinned
He is committed to hell

These are facts

I have spent two weeks in Wichita Kansas including two weekends and that was indeed hell
 
PhilBy
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:19 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 79):
even though Christians worship a Jew.

Time to duck for cover. Many christians get very upset if you suggest that, or worse, that he may not have been a white caucasian.

Quoting mariner (Reply 77):
Many Christians tell me it is a choice. I'd like to know how they know that,

I thiunk that the logic runs: Homosexuality is a sin. Nothing created by GOD could be so inherently flawed. Ergo no-one is created homosexual. Ergo homosexuality is a conscious choice.

If you discount this train of thought there are two main alternatives:
1) Homosexuality is a sin and GOD cocked-up when he invented it. As GOD is flawless this cannot be true
2) Homosexuality isn't a sin and GOD cocked-up when he dictated his magnum opus. As GOD is flawless this cannot be true.

This then leaves the final alternative which is possibility that the bible is a document with a veracity second only to 'The Life of Brian'

However I don't recall anything in the Christian tenet that allows not paying because people don't follow your moral values. You can enslave them, burn them or stone them but you still have to pay them first.
 
Danfearn77
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:23 pm

And this is why i am completely irreligious. I have no problem people believing in something but do not preach to such obscene and disgusting standards. What gives them the right to leave such a vile note.
Eagles may soar high, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines!
 
sw733
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:27 pm

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 10):
I mean Carrabas sucks anyway

It's not great, that's for sure. That being said, back in 2007 or so I picked up a waitress/server at this very Carraba's location...so I can't hate it that much  

But the food as mediocre.

Quoting mad99 (Reply 85):

I have spent two weeks in Wichita Kansas including two weekends and that was indeed hell

Ahhhh come on Wichita isn't that bad. But the location of this story, in the suburbs of Kansas City, is definitely better.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:30 pm

Quoting Philby (Reply 86):

There is another possibility and it's the one I've seen most evangelicals use. It is there to tempt and test someone and they need to break free of it. Not my words, trust me
 
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mariner
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:39 pm

Quoting Philby (Reply 86):
Time to duck for cover. Many christians get very upset if you suggest that, or worse, that he may not have been a white caucasian.

In the days when I was still trying to sort it all out I tried to make sense of that, but it became too convoluted for me.

This Catholic website, for example, insists that Christianity (Catholic version) is "the completed form of the Jewish religion"

http://www.catholic.com/quickquestio...esus-was-a-jew-why-are-we-catholic

"If Jesus was a Jew, why are we Catholic?

The completed form of the Jewish religion is known as Christianity, and its adherents are Christians or "followers of the Christ."


So the extension is that Catholics are Jewish, or "completed Jews," I guess, religiously but not ethnically, but that made even less sense of things like the Inquisition to me.

It all fries my brain. I have no problem if people believe or want to believe, I have no problem if they defend their faith, they don't need to do so to me.

My problems only begin when they want to impose their beliefs on me, or on others, such as when they try to blackmail a young waiter in Kansas who was only doing his job.

mariner

[Edited 2013-10-28 14:03:39]
aeternum nauta
 
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mad99
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:07 am

Quoting sw733 (Reply 88):
Wichita isn't that bad

You should probably have your head examined  

If you look at all the aero companies in wichita and the well paid jobs that go with them, i find it amazing that the place is so wildly boring...or did i miss something?
 
smittyone
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:14 am

Quoting Aesma (Reply 42):
I'd say the real problem is that in the US you can pay waiters almost nothing and let them rely on "tips" to live.

Just so you know, waiters are guaranteed to receive from their employer at least the Federal Minimum Wage, regardless of tips. Which I agree is next to nothing, but the reality is that tips give them the potential to make more than that minimum.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 46):
Some men are very obviously gay, god knows why they have to act like they fairies but they do. I've always wondered why some gay men act like fairies, a guy I was friends with for years came out, before he was your average beer drinking, rugby playing kiwi bloke; pretty successful with the ladies to. After he came out he turned into (for lack of a better description) the biggest dandiest poof you ever met. His voice changed, his mannerisms changed, basically he turned into Julian Clary.

I find this disconcerting also, but recognize that is my own cultural programming to blame. To each his/her own.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 51):
As you said, this is the Bible; you can't just pick and choose which parts you like. You either take it whole... or not at all. And I choose the latter.

Same here.

Quoting Philby (Reply 86):
Time to duck for cover. Many christians get very upset if you suggest that, or worse, that he may not have been a white caucasian.

We all know that he was Irish. Duh.  
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:21 am

Quoting Philby (Reply 86):
that he may not have been a white caucasian.

Anyone who thinks jesus was a white causacion has been looking at too many stained glass windows or jesus on a cross sculpturers.

Quoting mariner (Reply 90):
such as when they try to blackmail a young waiter in Kansas who was only doing his job.

How was he blackmailed, did they try get a free meal out of him, all they did was stiff him the tip and explain the reasons why, they were stupid reasons for sure, but I see no blackmail here.
 
smittyone
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:26 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 93):
jesus on a cross sculpturers.

Not to get too far off topic, but it didn't take me too long after turning away from Christianity to realize just how creepy your average Catholic-style high-fidelity crucifix really is. Now I sort of morbidly look forward to seeing just how over the top the next one I see will be.

All typically adorned with the pastiest white guy imaginable.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:49 am

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 92):
Just so you know, waiters are guaranteed to receive from their employer at least the Federal Minimum Wage, regardless of tips.

I was under the impression that the Minimum Wage did not apply to waiters.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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mariner
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:55 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 93):
How was he blackmailed, did they try get a free meal out of him, all they did was stiff him the tip and explain the reasons why, they were stupid reasons for sure, but I see no blackmail here.

They withheld "their wealth" - his tip - to persuade him to choose the straight and narrow.

Quoting mariner (Thread starter):
"We hope you will see the tip your faggot choices made you lose out on, and plan accordingly. It is never too late for GOD’s love, but none shall be spared for fags. May GOD have mercy on you."

Which raises the question once again - how would they know or not know? Do they expect him to provide a certificate of non-gaiety to merit a measly tip from them?

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:01 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 96):
Which raises the question once again - how would they know or not know? Do they expect him to provide a certificate of non-gaiety to merit a measly tip from them?

Come on Mariner you know very well that some gay men stick out like bollocks on a bulldog, he was probably one of those.
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:14 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 97):
Come on Mariner you know very well that some gay men stick out like bollocks on a bulldog, he was probably one of those.

I don't really get all this god argument. So what if he was obviously gay?
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Stiffing A Waiter - Cuz He's Gay

Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:27 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 96):
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 93):How was he blackmailed, did they try get a free meal out of him, all they did was stiff him the tip and explain the reasons why, they were stupid reasons for sure, but I see no blackmail here.

They withheld "their wealth" - his tip - to persuade him to choose the straight and narrow.

Ridiculous argument. Blackmail is intended to with the expectation that you can leverage someone into giving up something you're holding over them.

Do you honestly think this couple thought the waiter would stop being gay just to get a lousy tip?
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