flyingthe757
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RE: Toronto's Mayor Embroiled In Drug Scandal Vol.2

Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:51 pm

I'd love to understand his thinking in staying in office:

- he's lost the publics trust
- has broken a number of laws (drink driving, drugs etc)
- swarn on TV
- lied about everything
- lost the trust of the entire office
- lost his radio show (but for some reason is getting tv show)

Yet still stays in office?

Just heard he has lost some of his powers in a vote that only 3 people voted against (2 of them were him and his brother)
 
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northstardc4m
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RE: Toronto's Mayor Embroiled In Drug Scandal Vol.2

Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:04 pm

Quoting flyingthe757 (Reply 50):
- lost his radio show (but for some reason is getting tv show)

You are right about them all except that one, the Ford brothers cancelled the show themselves, they didn't loose it.

Anyways, we got one of the bobble heads... watching the values go up is fun :P
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WestJet747
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RE: Toronto's Mayor Embroiled In Drug Scandal Vol.2

Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:49 pm

Quoting northstardc4m (Reply 51):
You are right about them all except that one, the Ford brothers cancelled the show themselves, they didn't loose it.

Correct. Plus they would have had to cancel it in January anyway. Campaign rules don't allow it for candidates that are officially registered.

That makes me wonder though...why did they sign onto this TV show deal if Rob is going to have to bail on it in a couple months time? Maybe a sign he is reconsidering his bid for re-election? He'll likely make more money through TV/radio/books than he will as a politician, so it wouldn't be the worst career move...
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StarAC17
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RE: Toronto's Mayor Embroiled In Drug Scandal Vol.2

Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:58 pm

Quoting flyingthe757 (Reply 50):

I'd love to understand his thinking in staying in office:

His Arrogance and the denial that he has a problem, one thing all addicts say after treatment. The first step in acknowledging it and Ford hasn't done that. If he actually stepped aside and got treatment and came back next year as the mayor or even as a candidate he still stands a good shot of winning with his supporters. The way he is going by speaking like he has and saying that he is going to take his former staffers to court (where he is bound to lose) just hurts him.

I personally fundamentally disagree with his politics (no new taxes, stop the gravy train by nonsense nitpicking) as I think Toronto needs to invest huge in transit and attracting business to the city and the consequences of that in the short term are yes higher taxes.

Quoting flyingthe757 (Reply 50):
- he's lost the publics trust
- has broken a number of laws (drink driving, drugs etc)
- swarn on TV
- lied about everything
- lost the trust of the entire office
- lost his radio show (but for some reason is getting tv show)

There are some of his supporters who literally do not care what he has done if he hasn't been caught taking from the public coffers for his own personal gain. I did see on TV yesterday from a Sky News reporter that his straight talking attitude makes him more popular than the typical politician who simply speaks through talking points and there is some truth to that.

As for the TV show, its all about ratings and SUN news who will have the show is in dire need of them. That also may be short-lived though because if he decides to run again he won't be allowed to have the show.

Quoting flyingthe757 (Reply 50):
Just heard he has lost some of his powers in a vote that only 3 people voted against (2 of them were him and his brother)

At least he was honest to say that if this had been somebody else he would be leading the chrage to do the same to them.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 49):
He is convicted of a criminal offence and serves jail time (meaning he can be convicted but still keep his job so long as he isn't sentenced to any jail time)

I do think he will be taken from city hall in handcuffs at some point in the next year as there is just too much smoke out there IMO and all of the allegations against Rob Ford have been resoundingly true. The Toronto Star may not be supporting of him but they haven't been liars about their reporting either.

Whether or not he gets convicted of anything could take several years to determine and I do think it sets a equally bad precedent to the city if he were to make bail to continue being the mayor while being on trial for crimes.
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WestJet747
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RE: Toronto's Mayor Embroiled In Drug Scandal Vol.2

Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:06 pm

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 53):
As for the TV show, its all about ratings and SUN news who will have the show is in dire need of them.

Looking at their Facebook page, Sun News devotees have shown displeasure at the move. I'm fairly surprised by that to be honest.

I'll probably tune in for the first episode to see what it's all about.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 53):
That also may be short-lived though because if he decides to run again he won't be allowed to have the show.

January 2nd, I believe.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 53):
The Toronto Star may not be supporting of him but they haven't been liars about their reporting either.

Maybe not about the current scandal, yet The Star still refuses to admit their lies regarding the high school football player story. I continue to be very reluctant to read anything they write about Rob Ford because of that, and will continue to be weary until they admit their mistakes.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 53):
I do think it sets a equally bad precedent to the city if he were to make bail to continue being the mayor while being on trial for crimes.

What legal justification is there for denying him bail?
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greasespot
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RE: Toronto's Mayor Embroiled In Drug Scandal Vol.2

Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:50 pm

I used to think that he needs help. Now I have come to the conclusion this is the real Rob Ford. For years he constructed this careful facade wit only snippets of his personality coming out. Now under stress we are seeing the real person.

Some people are just nasty individuals. There is "nothing ": wrong or to fix that is just who they are.

The comment about eating pussy and then having his wife stand with him confirms to me that he is not a nice person.

The only good thing is the next election is less than a year away.

Good bye to a nasty piece of human.

gs
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
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pvjin
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RE: Toronto's Mayor Embroiled In Drug Scandal Vol.2

Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:54 pm

At least this guy has some personality, I would sure prefer to replace some of our politicians who are total corrupt pigs from the inside but have a well maintained outside image with somebody like him. His behavior seems to express his inner thoughts very well.

I love it when politicians show inappropriate behavior instead of just lying as usual. Big grin

[Edited 2013-11-16 15:56:03]
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
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yyz717
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RE: Toronto's Mayor Embroiled In Drug Scandal Vol.2

Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:00 am

Quoting flyingthe757 (Reply 50):
I'd love to understand his thinking in staying in office:

- he's lost the publics trust
- has broken a number of laws (drink driving, drugs etc)
- swarn on TV
- lied about everything
- lost the trust of the entire office
- lost his radio show (but for some reason is getting tv show)

Yet still stays in office?

There is actually no firm mechanism for removing him from office before the next election, short of him being arrested and charged (and he has not been to date). If a majority of city council petition the Provincial government that the business of the city is being stalled with RF as mayor, then the Provincial government CAN opt to intervene (or choose not to), but this does not appear to be the case.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
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seb146
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RE: Toronto's Mayor Embroiled In Drug Scandal Vol.2

Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:49 am

How long until he is elected as the next Prime Minister? Six months? Eight months?  
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
ltbewr
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RE: Toronto's Mayor Embroiled In Drug Scandal Vol.2

Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:35 pm

Apparently on Friday and continuing this week, the City Council is taking actions to attempt to curb the powers of the current Mayor Ford. They apparently want to limit his powers on appointments, especially as to deputy mayors (to prevent him from putting in supporters/protectors), and powers in emergencies (on the grounds that he may be intoxicated if one would occur).They also passed a non-binding resolution asking him to resign. http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/15/world/toronto-mayor-rob-ford/index.html

Ford is a 'conservative' in the Canadian political spectrum. Most 'conservatives' are very much against illegal drug use, some as to alcohol (especially in the USA), yet they seemed to not condemn this man and call him to resign for the good of the party. I guess that is due to the fears of someone from the other party winning the Mayor's seat next year and all the patronage that comes with it. It might be better for him to resign, get the help he needs badly before he does more damage to the city and the party, then promote someone with a far more reasoned personal behavior for next fall's election.
 
WestJet747
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RE: Toronto's Mayor Embroiled In Drug Scandal Vol.2

Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:39 pm

Quoting greasespot (Reply 55):
I used to think that he needs help. Now I have come to the conclusion this is the real Rob Ford. For years he constructed this careful facade wit only snippets of his personality coming out. Now under stress we are seeing the real person.

Some people are just nasty individuals. There is "nothing ": wrong or to fix that is just who they are.

The comment about eating pussy and then having his wife stand with him confirms to me that he is not a nice person.

The only good thing is the next election is less than a year away.

Good bye to a nasty piece of human.

I guess you haven't had much interaction with functioning alcoholics (which I suspect Rob Ford to be).

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 59):
Ford is a 'conservative' in the Canadian political spectrum. Most 'conservatives' are very much against illegal drug use, some as to alcohol (especially in the USA), yet they seemed to not condemn this man and call him to resign for the good of the party. I guess that is due to the fears of someone from the other party winning the Mayor's seat next year and all the patronage that comes with it.

That's not exactly how politics wok up here. Canadians are typically far less concerned with social issues than Americans, so the whole "drugs are bad" things doesn't pop up as much in the Conservative party (save a few of the more extreme supporters of course). That's why marijuana is much closer to being decriminalized up here than in the US, and it has nothing to do with who is in power. Also, party politics doesn't really exist at the municipal level like it does in the US. Sure, there's the left-right split in political ideologies, but municipal politicians don't publicly align themselves with parties. You'll almost never see mayors/councillors campaigning as a Liberal/PC/NDP/etc.
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StarAC17
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RE: Toronto's Mayor Embroiled In Drug Scandal Vol.2

Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:47 pm

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 54):
What legal justification is there for denying him bail?

Nothing but it says a bad precedent that I would be allowed to remain as mayor if he were to be charged with a crime and awaiting due process.

This is purely speculation right not but I do think it the Toronto police are investigating the mayor not out of a personal grudge (as Doug Ford has said) but because they do have reason to believe that Rob Ford could be linked to a potential murder.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 58):
How long until he is elected as the next Prime Minister? Six months? Eight months?  

You guys will elect Ted Cruz first  
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WestJet747
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RE: Toronto's Mayor Embroiled In Drug Scandal Vol.2

Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:33 pm

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 61):
Nothing but it says a bad precedent that I would be allowed to remain as mayor if he were to be charged with a crime and awaiting due process.

Giving him the boot without having been convicted of a crime would be dangerously prejudicial, would it not?
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Revelation
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RE: Toronto's Mayor Embroiled In Drug Scandal Vol.2

Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:01 am

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 62):
Giving him the boot without having been convicted of a crime would be dangerously prejudicial, would it not?

Ahh, you Canadians are so polite!  
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Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
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Superfly
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RE: Toronto's Mayor Embroiled In Drug Scandal Vol.2

Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:16 am

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 61):
You guys will elect Ted Cruz first

That would be nice.  
Although I wish we could borrow Stephen Harper as our President.
Mine as well since we're starting to elect foreigners as our leaders now.   

I've mentioned this before but I think Neil Peart (Rush) would be a great Prime Minister for Canada.
Very intelligent, worldly, wrote many books and has interest in politics. He even interviewed Jean Chrétien back in 1993.
His guitarist Alex Lifeson has had run ins with the law and seems similar to Rob Ford in some ways.
Bring back the Concorde
 
StarAC17
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RE: Toronto's Mayor Embroiled In Drug Scandal Vol.2

Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:20 pm

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 62):
Giving him the boot without having been convicted of a crime would be dangerously prejudicial, would it not?

I don't think so as most democracies have a legal system to remove leaders.

The system in Toronto allows voters to elect both their councillor and the mayor directly very similar to the US where you cast a vote for the president/governor as well as local representation. The president like the mayor of Toronto is elected by the people but so is the council. In the US the POTUS could be impeached and convicted for literally anything if it can get the votes in the house and senate whom represent the voters and in this case much more than a simple majority is required.

The Toronto city council took away all the rights that they gave the mayor yesterday and the results were basically unanimous. Any mayoral power that they mayor has from the City of Toronto act remained and the voters can decide next year if they want Ford back and toss out most of the council who made these votes, which is how democracy works. It will be interesting to see what the courts decide in the coming weeks though.
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WestJet747
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RE: Toronto's Mayor Embroiled In Drug Scandal Vol.2

Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:44 pm

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 65):
I don't think so as most democracies have a legal system to remove leaders.

Most democracies have judicial systems founded on the premise of "innocent until proven guilty". His alleged crimes (with which he has yet to be convicted of) should not be mixed into the discussion whether he can competently govern. They're completely separate issues.

As for a mechanism to remove a sitting official, you'll recall that Doug Ford's attempt to table a motion to request a snap election was ruled out-of-order. It's unfortunate really, because I think that would be the most effective and fair way to go about unseating a mayor whose competency to govern has been called into question. Leave it up to the will of the people.

Both the Federal and Provincial levels have the ability to call a vote of non-confidence which would initiate an election, so why not do it at the municipal level as well? That's essentially what Council blocked yesterday.

Plus, the sooner we can get John Tory into office, the better  
Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 65):
the results were basically unanimous

There were never any less than 5 votes opposed to the motions tabled yesterday. One actually had 12 against. That's hardly unanimous.
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StarAC17
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RE: Toronto's Mayor Embroiled In Drug Scandal Vol.2

Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:28 pm

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 66):
Plus, the sooner we can get John Tory into office, the better  

I agree but I'm not sure he can beat Ford for a few reasons.

- It wouldn't be a two person race as Tory leans right and there would be ford and a candidate or two on the left.
- Ford will label him as one of the downtown elitists and Tory lacks the attitude to fight back with the same fire. He makes deals and doesn't sling political mud, which is one of his weaknesses.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 66):
There were never any less than 5 votes opposed to the motions tabled yesterday. One actually had 12 against. That's hardly unanimous.

Fair point and to use the US model again a 2/3 majority to impeach an elected official, that was reached yesterday and they only needed the simple majority. We will find out if it was indeed legal in the coming future but I am confident that the city council did their due-diligence on this

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 66):
Most democracies have judicial systems founded on the premise of "innocent until proven guilty". His alleged crimes (with which he has yet to be convicted of) should not be mixed into the discussion whether he can competently govern. They're completely separate issues.

Whether or not he committed any crimes was not discussed in council, outside of the question of him buying and doing drugs which are only crimes if caught at the time.

What was discussed and voted on was his ability to govern and the equally elected council took away the powers they were advised they could take.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 63):
Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 62):
Giving him the boot without having been convicted of a crime would be dangerously prejudicial, would it not?

Ahh, you Canadians are so polite!  

I agree we are, had crack video been Obama or any politician in the US for that matter they would be impeached or recalled almost immediately. It usually doesn't go that far though because many politicians who get into scandals simply resign, go away and come back later.

The ironic part is that Rob Ford has said on record had this been someone else in his shoes he would be leading the charge to remove them from office so why is he surprised when people treat him like he would treat others.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 66):
Both the Federal and Provincial levels have the ability to call a vote of non-confidence which would initiate an election, so why not do it at the municipal level as well? That's essentially what Council blocked yesterday.

This is because at the provincial and federal level the population does not select the leader. We vote for our local representation only whose caucus selects the leader who becomes the Premier or the PM if that party gets the most seats. When a vote of non-confidence is taken it questions the governing ability of the entire house of parliament. This is also why the Premiers and the PM can change without an election.

As far as I know the governing ability of the Toronto city council is not in question so to go to the polls to elect one individual who has only one vote is a waste of time and money. However the snap election could still happen.
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WestJet747
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RE: Toronto's Mayor Embroiled In Drug Scandal Vol.2

Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:02 pm

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 67):
I agree but I'm not sure he can beat Ford for a few reasons.

- It wouldn't be a two person race as Tory leans right and there would be ford and a candidate or two on the left.
- Ford will label him as one of the downtown elitists and Tory lacks the attitude to fight back with the same fire. He makes deals and doesn't sling political mud, which is one of his weaknesses.

All good points. Although I don't think Ford would go as far as to label Tory an elitist (Tory has sided with Ford quite a bit the past couple years), I'm sure you're right that Tory wouldn't fight fire with fire, he's too nice.

Your first point is more realistic in my opinion. It looks like Olivia Chow would win simply because Ford, Stintz, and Tory would split the vote on the right.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 67):
We will find out if it was indeed legal in the coming future but I am confident that the city council did their due-diligence on this

I like to think I know quite a bit about Toronto municipal politics, but I can't think of any legs that Ford has to stand on with this challenge. It seems to me on the surface that the motions were in accordance with the bylaws.

But it's not like Ford really has any other recourse, so he doesn't have much to lose by challenging the ruling in court anyway. If I were on his team I would be recommending it as well since it's really his only hope of getting any of those powers back.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 67):
What was discussed and voted on was his ability to govern and the equally elected council took away the powers they were advised they could take.

True, but his ability to govern was only really impacted when Council decided to politicize his personal life. Whatever issues he has, he's had for some time, yet his record in office has been quite good. So clearly his personal issues haven't had much bearing on his ability to govern.
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StarAC17
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RE: Toronto's Mayor Embroiled In Drug Scandal Vol.2

Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:12 am

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 68):
True, but his ability to govern was only really impacted when Council decided to politicize his personal life.

For good reason.

When Bill Blair said the crack video in fact existed in evidence for cases that the Toronto police was investigating such as the extortion charges against Sandro Lisi and the guys in the video with Ford, one whom now is now dead. That matters greatly to the council to question the mayor's judgement of associating with these people.

I also have no issue with his personal life being called into question either because the fishbowl reality of the 21st century is not going away. We all live in the reality that everything we say and do could be on youtube tomorrow and mayor Ford should know this as should everyone.

This has become a big enough issue that many corporations have social media training now to prevent their employees from getting into the very hole that Rob Ford has dug himself into. Rob Ford may not be able to be removed from office but he is still vulnerable to the same fishbowl culture we all are.
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