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Superfly
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Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Tina Turner Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:28 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 94):
Well, none of us knows WHY she decided to become a Swiss citizen. It might be as simple as for this guy,
Maybe Tina turner just wanted to have the right to vote in Switzerland as well.

It's no coincidence that she did this at a time when a record number of successful Americans are giving up their citizenship.

Quoting arrow (Reply 99):
I just wish someone had the guts to call the IRS bluff on that one because the economic devastation on the US as well as everyone else would be horrific.

Keep up the fight. I hope Canada keeps the pressure on and eventually this awful law will just die on the vine.
Bring back the Concorde
 
Arrow
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RE: Tina Turner Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:18 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 100):
Keep up the fight. I hope Canada keeps the pressure on and eventually this awful law will just die on the vine.

Well, a little help came out today, and maybe those other countries that are trying to play ball with the US on tax evasion will develop a backbone and tell Congress to stick it.

An article on a crime website:

As FATCA nears, US is accused of hypocrisy in attacking offshore secrecy while keeping its own

The United States, the author of the 2010 Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) that seeks to track down US persons who have financial accounts in other countries that serve to evade US taxes, is hypocritical and does not practice what it preaches, says a landmark “Financial Secrecy Index” released by the independent, London-based Tax Justice Network.


http://www.acfcs.org/as-fatca-nears-...r_5814156924337274881#!prettyPhoto


I wonder of the Carl Levins and Chuck Schumers of the world have given any thought to cleaning up their own act.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
bjorn14
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RE: Tina Turner Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:49 pm

Its even worse if you hold a 'green card' you are liable for US taxes no matter where you live. My Norwegian wife has been asking me for one and we don't even live there.

Tina also dropped her citizenship because now the IRS can audit her husband to make sure that she's not hiding anything. As her BF they didn't have that power.

Eritrea's expat tax is not like the US, its a 2% 'rebuild the infrastructure' tax

[Edited 2013-12-06 06:56:46]
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
bjorn14
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RE: Tina Turner Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:21 pm

I've heard anectdotal evidence that foreign banks just wont open accounts for Americans, because of FATCAt.
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
PanHAM
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RE: Tina Turner Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:56 pm

That is so, you get a free toaster, a mixer and a TV set if you DON'T open an account.

 
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
willzzz88
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RE: Tina Turner Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:11 pm

You know this FATCA thing is interesting. I just realized the people this affects most are people in alike Western countries with high taxes (higher or similar to the US) where its more likely there are American expats. This is now going 2 sided with countries like France as said earlier wanting to know the wealth of French citizens in the US (e.g. Florida). And these countries are most likely US allies most likely to give what the American government what it wants sometimes with data its own tax collection agency wants. So in the end the citizens are screwed either way.
 
PHX787
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RE: Tina Turner Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:39 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 94):

I wouldn't use Debito as an example. He's a wackjob. Seriously.
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
FlyingSicilian
Posts: 1662
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RE: Tina Turner Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:46 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 94):
Since both Japan and the US don´t accept voluntary dual citizenship

This is incorrect. The US allows people to have dual/tri/quad citizenships. It was decided in court long ago and noted on the State Department's webpage also.

The US does not prohibit dual at all.
I was told there would be cookies...
 
Arrow
Posts: 2325
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RE: Tina Turner Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:49 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 104):
This is now going 2 sided with countries like France as said earlier wanting to know the wealth of French citizens in the US (e.g. Florida)

French residents --- not French citizens. This is an important distinction in the FATCA debacle and it gets missed by US homelanders all the time. The US wants other countries to rat on "US persons" (US citizens AND green card holders) who are residing in their country --- in many cases for decades, and in most cases citizens of their adopted country -- so they can tax and penalize them. What France (and other countries) wants is info on any French resident who has an account in Florida.

The US is the only major country (along with Eritrea) that taxes worldwide income of citizens no matter where they live. Every other civilized country taxes based on residence. So the imposition of FATCA is an attempt by the US to get every other country in the world to help them enforce an archaic income tax policy that no other country has and to have their banks do the IRS audit work at their own expense. On a global scale, that is expected to cost those foreign banks $100 billion. Personally, I think they should send the IRS the bill for all that.

It took a long time, but there is some glimmer of hope as it appears that Republicans have now grasped what an absolute disaster FATCA is (far worse than ACA) and what the real costs of implementation are. Just last week, a draft resolution was prepared that lays out all the nasty consequences of FATCA and seeks its repeal. More detail here:

http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/12/...titled-resolution-to-repeal-fatca/

This resolution will be presented in January. FATCA is scheduled to take effect July 1, but I'm betting there will be another 6-month delay since the US banks have requested such. I have no clue as to how successful this Republican effort will be because I don't understand US politics very well -- but something is better than nothing. The sad thing is how long it took them to wake up to all this.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
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RE: Tina Turner Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:26 pm

Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 107):
This is incorrect. The US allows people to have dual/tri/quad citizenships. It was decided in court long ago and noted on the State Department's webpage also.

The US does not prohibit dual at all.


  
Even if the US didn't, nationalities of 3rd world and developing nations will NOT rat out their own bretheren to Obama's IRS.

Quoting Arrow (Reply 108):
It took a long time, but there is some glimmer of hope as it appears that Republicans have now grasped what an absolute disaster FATCA is (far worse than ACA)

The Republicans have ALWAYS saw what a disaster FATCA is. This entire law was the Democrats doing, not the Republicans.
This was one of the main reasons I couldn't vote for Obama a 2nd time around in 2012, causing me to vote for a Republican for the first time ever in a Presidential election.
Bring back the Concorde
 
PanHAM
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RE: Tina Turner Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:02 pm

Quoting Arrow (Reply 108):
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 104):This is now going 2 sided with countries like France as said earlier wanting to know the wealth of French citizens in the US (e.g. Florida)

This is mnot my text, please Change that

My text in reply 104 is

:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 104):
That is so, you get a free toaster, a mixer and a TV set if you DON'T open an account.

Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
Arrow
Posts: 2325
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2002 7:44 am

RE: Tina Turner Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:28 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 110):
This is mnot my text, please Change th

You're right --- but I have no idea how to change it -- I simply used the quote feature and didn't notice that it attributed someone else's words to your name. Edit feature has timed out.

Can mods help here?
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
Arrow
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Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2002 7:44 am

RE: Tina Turner Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:31 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 109):
The Republicans have ALWAYS saw what a disaster FATCA is.

So why has it taken them so long to try to do anything about it? That resolution could have been brought forward years ago.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
Superfly
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RE: Tina Turner Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:48 pm

Quoting Arrow (Reply 112):
So why has it taken them so long to try to do anything about it? That resolution could have been brought forward years ago.

They don't have the votes to over-ride the narcissistic, ghetto community organizer that signed this awful bill in the first place. Criticizing this President can get you branded a 'racist'. Republicans need to be careful.
Also too many Americans think all of us expats are rich which is far from the truth.
Bring back the Concorde
 
bjorn14
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RE: Tina Turner Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:14 pm

Not only that 'fly the FEIE has dropped from $ 180K in the 1980s to the current $97K it is now. Whose to say they won't lower it more or even eliminate it in the future. I became eligible this year to be a Norwegian citizen so I'm watching this closely.
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
Arrow
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RE: Tina Turner Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:13 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 114):
Whose to say they won't lower it more or even eliminate it in the future.

You can almost count on that happening, given the fear and loathing among Congresscritters for expats. There are two or three bills designed to eliminate the FEIE in circulation now. So far they haven't stuck -- but it's only a matter of time before one of those cretins finds a way to attach it to a very big bill that the White House wants very badly. That's the insanity of the legislative process.

But even if it stays, its benefits are illusory. The important word there in FEIE is "earned." People moving into retirement will find that it doesn't cover pension income or investment income. If you are in your late sixties and your only income is pensions and investments, you could well end up paying taxes to Uncle Sam as well as to the country in which you live.

But it gets worse -- for a long-term expat, the only escape from all this is to renounce your citizenship -- and those Congresscritters are working on making even that more burdensome. There are bills floating around that would punish any expat who renounces for tax reasons by banning them from entry to the US. Some of them just want an outright ban regardless of the reasons for renouncing. Land of the free, but you're not free to leave. And of course there's the exit tax.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 114):
I became eligible this year to be a Norwegian citizen so I'm watching this closely.

My advice to any American living abroad is to get another citizenship as quickly as you can -- there is absolutely no downside and it's a lot less traumatic to surrender US citizenship if you've got another one. In your case there may be an issue with whether or not Norway allows duals -- which makes the change a little more difficult. I'm one of those who thinks it's going to get worse in the US before it gets better -- and frankly it may never get better. They've got a real hate on down there for expats; they think they're all rich tax evaders -- and there's no talking them out of it. I know that from personal experience with family members.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: Tina Turner Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:30 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 114):
I became eligible this year to be a Norwegian citizen so I'm watching this closely.

Now how the hell are you going to do that when the Norwegian govt will not in allow dual citizenship, with few exceptions (see below), since dumping your US citizenship is pretty tricky and expensive.

My oldest son is an exception, born in NZ and granted Norwegian citizenship, my other children are born in Norway, if I applied for NZ citizenship for them and the Norwegian govt found out they would have their Norwegian citizenship revoked. I know of a couple of US citizens who started the Norwegian citizenship process only to can it after finding out how difficult it is to give up their US citizenship.

The Norwegians are really anal about dual citizenship, from the UDI website.

Quote:
Dual citizenship in case a foreign national citizen wishes to become Norwegian

If you wish to become a Norwegian citizen it is required as a principal rule that you renounce any other citizenship. In certain cases there are exemptions from this requirement, and double citizenship is allowed:

1. The legislation in the applicant’s former home country does not permit citizens to be released from their citizenship, or such release is deemed to be practically impossible.
2. The authorities in the former home country have rejected an application for release.
3. For reasons for personal safety, the applicant should not be required to contact the authorities of his or her former home country in order to apply for release.
4. More than one year has elapsed since Norwegian citizenship was granted or since the applicant reached the age at which it is possible to obtain release pursuant to the legislation of the former home country but the granting of release has not been documented, and the home country has provided no information as regards expected processing time. If it is known that the applicant’s former home country does not reply to applications for release from nationality, an exemption may be granted from the requirement regarding release in connection with the granting of Norwegian citizenship.
5. The authorities in the applicant’s former home country set unreasonably burdensome conditions for release. Whether the fee charged for release is unreasonably burdensome shall be assessed on the basis of ordinary income. If the fee exceeds four per cent of the applicant’s income, the release fee is deemed to be unreasonably burdensome. The same applies if the applicant is responsible for the care of children under 18 years of age, and the release fee, including any release fee for children, exceeds two per cent of the applicant’s income. However, a release fee of up to and including NOK 2,500 is not deemed to be unreasonably burdensome. In the case of orphans, any release fee is deemed to be unreasonably burdensome.

So you might get lucky under clause 1, 2, or 5 but since you'll still be a US citizen you'll still have to pay tax, or file returns, and of course Norway has signed up to FATCA, so you're well screwed whichever way you go.
 
bjorn14
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RE: Tina Turner Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:19 pm

Yeah, I know it will be difficult but if they ever eliminate or drastically reduce the FEIE. I couldn't afford to live here and if Norway gets rid of the 'wealth tax' it becomes way more attractive. My wife isn't too crazy about the idea of the IRS poking around in her affairs either. Besides, I like living here and have roots here.

Another thing that bothers me is the fact if I spend my whole 6 weeks vacation in the US I could be liable for US taxes on all my Norwegian income.

[Edited 2013-12-10 13:30:20]
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
Arrow
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RE: Tina Turner Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:09 am

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 117):
Another thing that bothers me is the fact if I spend my whole 6 weeks vacation in the US I could be liable for US taxes on all my Norwegian income.

Yup. While "furriners" get to spend 180 days/year in the U.S. (but be careful -- there's a formula that has a nasty trap in it for people -- e.g. Canadian snowbirds -- who do this repeatedly. Makes that limit less than 180 days on a cumulative basis) without being declared a US resident for tax purposes, a US citizen living abroad has only 30 days grace. Another annoying (and potentially expensive) little "middle finger salute" the U.S. shows its expats.

My wife had no idea about this little rule, but fortunately over 45 years we never ever spent more than a couple of weeks a year in the U.S whether on vacation or visiting relatives. What's interesting now is how that rule would apply to her as a former U.S. citizen. Does she get the same 180 days/year as other furriners? There's no clear answer to that, but we are not likely to push that envelope anyway.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
bjorn14
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RE: Tina Turner Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:25 am

IIRC it's actually 38 days.
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: Tina Turner Gives Up U.S. Citizenship

Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:04 am

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 117):
I couldn't afford to live here and if Norway gets rid of the 'wealth tax' it becomes way more attractive.

Wealth tax really only starts to apply once you're debt free, if you have a wacking great mortgage, like most Norwegians you''ll be exempt. I should be paying 45% tax but due to our mortgage I'm only supposed to pay 29%, I round up to 31% as a back stop, I got nailed for under paying a couple of years back

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