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racko
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GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:27 am

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...motors-chevy-idUSBRE9B407W20131205

Shockingly, GM seems to have finally realized that there isn't a lower-regarded car brand in Europe than Chevrolet and that they are better served by trying to rebuild Opel's reputation. Anybody with a little knowledge could have told them that years ago but they've always been a little slow in Detroit.
 
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Aesma
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:45 am

Yep, I said this here long ago (along with others), I couldn't understand their strategy. Meanwhile Opel has surely lost some of its reputation unfortunately.

I saw a Daewoo Matiz the other day, a painful sight, pretty rare here thankfully. That's the car that started this mess.
 
Stealthz
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:12 am

The General is not that bright, tried the same thing in Australia.
Took a Holden(admittedly Opel sourced) off the market then a couple of years later try to create a new brand in Australia by reintroducing the same model and a couple of poorly considered companion models to the market through a largely separate dealer network as Opels. No disrespect to Opel but after less than a year the experiment had failed, selling less than 10% of the planned 1st yrs target and GM have retreated with Opel leaving these shores with their tail very much between their legs.
A couple of those models and one or two more properly considered options, badged as Holden's, sold thru the extensive Holden dealer network... given a bit of competent marketing(not a strength of the Australian motor industry) might have actually made some real money.
I guess the mind set at GM-H is .. let's screw the taxpayer for subsidies.. it's easier than actually being good at our job!
 
JJJ
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:07 am

Quoting Aesma (Reply 1):
That's the car that started this mess.

Thing is, there was a time when the Chevrolet brand had some value. The only chevy the common car driver in Europe had heard about was the Corvette.... and instead we got a bunch of ugly, unreliable Daewoos with a Chevrolet badge hastily slapped on.
 
ltbewr
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:09 am

Apparently GM has found the Chevrolet brand, especially as it pushed fancier and larger models was cutting into sales of Opel/Vauxhall brands at a time of sharply declining sales of cars overall in Europe.
It will cost GM well over $1 Billion to do the wind down including compensation to dealerships. One reason for dropping the Saturn and Pontiac brand was that as brands lost real identity, they cut into sales of flagship brand of Chevrolet.
It looks like for years the management of GM had no clue on how to sell cars and since 2008 has finally realized after almost going bust they have to make radical changes to stay in business.
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:33 am

Quoting racko (Thread starter):
GM seems to have finally realized that there isn't a lower-regarded car brand in Europe than Chevrolet

Except that the brand itself is not the problem. Look where Škoda has been 15+ years ago, KIA/Hyundai less than 10.

[Edited 2013-12-05 03:35:15]
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:35 am

So are they also pulling the plug on Cadillac in Europe as well?

I don't see a problem keeping the Corvette as a halo model and selling it through specialist Opel dealers, rather like what Vauxhal do in the UK with the VRX, which is an HSV Commodore.
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:41 am

Quoting stealthz (Reply 2):
A couple of those models and one or two more properly considered options, badged as Holden's, sold thru the extensive Holden dealer network... given a bit of competent marketing(not a strength of the Australian motor industry) might have actually made some real money.

The Opel Corsa in particular (badeged as the Holden Barina - until they went to the current model) and the Opel Astra (badged as the Holden Astra) were pretty successful here.

I know that GMH became one of the manufacturing sites for the Cruze - which is why they dropped the Astra - but it will forever remain a mystery why they replaced the Corsa with that POS from Daewoo, sorry "GM Korea".

Quoting stealthz (Reply 2):
Opels. No disrespect to Opel but after less than a year the experiment had failed, selling less than 10% of the planned 1st yrs target and GM have retreated with Opel leaving these shores with their tail very much between their legs.

I honestly had no idea that Opel had already called it a day here. Doesn't surprise me, though. They were marketing it as a Volkswagen competitor, even though most people with even a passing knowledge of cars knows that Opel has the same market positioning as Holden ... so they were charging a premium of $10,000 for an equivalent car. Sounds like a great sales strategy  
 
melpax
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:02 pm

They only lasted a year here - when they pulled out, many of the dealerships were still under construction, operating from 'temporary' premises. Opel ended up having to make costly settlements with their dealers. Ironically Holden dealerships are now selling the remainder of the unsold Opel stock (at huge discounts..)

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2/6A27530DB1B90765CA257BBF000D64B5

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2/B0A5B977677F798DCA257C05000F2EE4

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2/EB21952FAD5B8797CA257C29007EEE48
 
offloaded
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:41 pm

Quoting JJJ (Reply 3):
Thing is, there was a time when the Chevrolet brand had some value. The only chevy the common car driver in Europe had heard about was the Corvette.... and instead we got a bunch of ugly, unreliable Daewoos with a Chevrolet badge hastily slapped on.

   Totally agree.

The Chevrolet brand was synonymous with American muscle: Corvette, Camaro... the Euro-Chevy version, not so.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:43 pm

A main complaint of the German unions at Opel is that managers, who get sent to Opel by GM, are never dedicated to the company. They just see Opel as a stepping stone for a few years on their way to a better job in GM´s headquarters in Detroit. The main way they see to "improve" Opel´s productivity to make an imprerssion with their Detroit superiors about themselvesis to make cuts, often affecting quality, future developments and research, and they often don´t understand how automonile markets in Europe work, so they try a "one size fits all" approach.
This had made Opel lose a large part of it´s competitiveness.

Jan
 
Flighty
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:59 pm

The car business is an extremely long term business (second only to aircraft, ships, bigger capital items).

GM believes they can get things done in 1-2 years. You can't get a thing done in 2 years. That is a blink of an eye. If you invest $40 billion over 20 years getting Chevrolet into Europe, then you could have something. But that's what it takes to change the perception (and track record) of a car company.
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:41 pm

Quoting offloaded (Reply 9):
The Chevrolet brand was synonymous with American muscle: Corvette, Camaro... the Euro-Chevy version, not so.

Chevy is USA is no different, apart from muscle cars, it has cheapo entry level cars, eco friendly mid size sedans, even seven seat family SUV to compete with minivans. Chevy brand is the most diverse/confused as it gets. I don't think there a way out of it for GM.
 
mham001
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:50 pm

It's easy to forget that Opel itself was on the chopping block just recently. One or the other.

In other news today, it is *reported* Holden will shutdown in 2015. http://www.autoblog.com/2013/12/05/gm-to-shutter-holden-by-2016/

[Edited 2013-12-05 09:59:20]
 
CXfirst
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:29 pm

Does this include the UK?

Chevrolet are 6 months away from being the 7-year shirt sponsor of Manchester United, which is a massive sponsorship. I do realize it caters for worldwide audience, but if it doesn't cater for the domestic audience, then it seems like a huge cost, with not enough benefits.

-CXfirst
 
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northstardc4m
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:48 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 12):
Chevy is USA is no different, apart from muscle cars, it has cheapo entry level cars, eco friendly mid size sedans, even seven seat family SUV to compete with minivans. Chevy brand is the most diverse/confused as it gets.

I wouldn't say it's confused, it's just a complete lineup from the Aveo on up.

Chevy is the core GM brand in North America, the others (Buick, GMC, Cadillac) are targeted lines that compliment Chevy. The days of competing lines are over, I never understood the Pontiac vs Chevy thing myself... the cars were the same, the prices were the same...

But compare Chevy vs Ford vs Toyota... basically all the same lineup end to end... Chrysler is the only one with a more broken up family of brands by size/market.
 
Flighty
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:20 pm

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 14):
I do realize it caters for worldwide audience, but if it doesn't cater for the domestic audience, then it seems like a huge cost, with not enough benefits.

IIRC, the guy who arranged that deal was immediately fired by GM. Like 5 days later.
 
srbmod
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:47 pm

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 14):
Chevrolet are 6 months away from being the 7-year shirt sponsor of Manchester United, which is a massive sponsorship. I do realize it caters for worldwide audience, but if it doesn't cater for the domestic audience, then it seems like a huge cost, with not enough benefits.

From the article:

Quote:
As part of its efforts to push Chevy globally, GM signed a $559 million, seven-year sponsorship deal with English soccer champions Manchester United in July 2012, which is due to put the Chevy brand on the club's famous red shirts in 2014-2015.

Girsky said that deal remains unaffected. "We always looked at Man U as a global deal," he said. "They're exposed around the world, and Chevrolet will be exposed around the world."
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 6):
So are they also pulling the plug on Cadillac in Europe as well?

From the article:

Quote:
GM also said it was completing expansion plans in Europe for its Cadillac luxury line, which has been more a niche brand in the region. The company said it would expand its distribution network for the brand over the next three years as it prepares to introduce more products.

GM bringing the Chevy brand to Europe was about as smart as their Geo brand of small cars here in the US that were built for GM by Suzuki, Toyota and Izuzu. The Geo brand lasted from 1989-97 when GM decided to drop the brand and the Geo models became Chevy models, as Geo cars were sold through Chevy dealerships. Fared better than their similar attempts in Canada back in the late 80s and early 90s.
 
BMI727
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:02 am

Quoting racko (Thread starter):
Anybody with a little knowledge could have told them that years ago but they've always been a little slow in Detroit.

Precisely. Chevy can't do anything Opel and Vauxhall cannot do, and even less if what you're really selling are Daewoos.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 10):
They just see Opel as a stepping stone for a few years on their way to a better job in GM´s headquarters in Detroit.

If they're promotion Opel leaders to Detroit, then GM is in for a rough ride.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 16):
IRC, the guy who arranged that deal was immediately fired by GM. Like 5 days later.

  
 
Stealthz
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:00 pm

It is becoming increasingly obvious that GM will cease manufacturing in Australia by 2016.
The GM sleazebags sent here to defraud the Australian taxpayer are continuing to demand subsidies from the government, insisting on govt commiting to subsidies before the end of the year but from their side no commitment to maintaining production.
Seems the GM (is GM a Detroit slang word for extortionist?) management would like a $2-300 million handout guaranteed then announce they were bailing out!
 
PanHAM
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:43 pm

Quoting racko (Thread starter):
GM seems to have finally realized that there isn't a lower-regarded car brand in Europe than Chevrolet

There is, DACIA takes that credit.


Now, the Corvette is it's own class but the Chevy Caprice Classic Sedan was Long time around the 80s my preferred
rental car when in the US. Anything the rental firms had after that car was dull. Whatever tin cans they sell under the
brand name Chevrolet in Europe is not worth talking about
 
Flighty
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:32 pm

Quoting stealthz (Reply 19):
Seems the GM (is GM a Detroit slang word for extortionist?) management would like a $2-300 million handout guaranteed then announce they were bailing out!

Can you blame them for asking? If you give them money, then shame on you, not them.
 
mham001
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:28 pm

Quoting stealthz (Reply 19):

It is becoming increasingly obvious that GM will cease manufacturing in Australia by 2016.
The GM sleazebags sent here to defraud the Australian taxpayer are continuing to demand subsidies from the government, insisting on govt commiting to subsidies before the end of the year but from their side no commitment to maintaining production.
Seems the GM (is GM a Detroit slang word for extortionist?) management would like a $2-300 million handout guaranteed then announce they were bailing out!

Probably trying to recoup losses from all the LS1 drivetrains going out the back door. Holden management (from whatever continent) was so inept, they had no idea of their own inventory. They deserve to be shut down. Don't give them money.
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:08 pm

If it's true that local production in Australia is to cease then good ridence, IMHO.

If a manufacturer wants to set up shop building marketable vehicles that people want to buy, with limited or no subsidies, then good for them. That is Toyota manufacturing in Ausstralia. Then you had Holden and Ford which collected vast sums of money from the tax payer and still couldn't find their ass from their face.
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:22 pm

Quoting stealthz (Reply 19):
to defraud the Australian taxpayer are continuing to demand subsidies from the government, insisting on govt commiting to subsidies before the end of the year but from their side no commitment to maintaining production.
Seems the GM (is GM a Detroit slang word for extortionist?) management would like a $2-300 million handout guaranteed then announce they were bailing out!

It is common practice here for manufacturers to pit one state against another to maximize grants/incentives and skip town at their will. It is sad to hear what states/cities are ready to do for few jobs.
 
Marcus
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:33 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 23):
If a manufacturer wants to set up shop building marketable vehicles that people want to buy, with limited or no subsidies, then good for them. That is Toyota manufacturing in Ausstralia.

Will Toyota keep it's manufacturing line open in Australia after GM and Ford close theirs?
 
Stealthz
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:07 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 21):
Can you blame them for asking?

I can if they have already decided to leave!

Quoting Flighty (Reply 21):
If you give them money, then shame on you, not them.

Well so far this govt is playing a little harder and not throwing money at lost causes.
 
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seemyseems
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:24 am

Oh well! I guess a reason for poor sales was the poor build quality which is always mentioned in Chevy reviews, plus the cars aren't the best looking around

I remember reading a while ago that GM was considering re-branding Opel/Vauxhall to Chevrolet, (unfortunately I cannot find the link). Luckily this didn't happen, I'd hate to see the Vauxhall name disappear sad enough seeing Ellesmere Port's production line reduced to one model
 
YVRLTN
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:01 am

No surprise, even over here I dont think there is much regard for the Chevy brand outside the Silverado pick up, so by extension the Tahoe / Suburban and the Corvette & Camaro any more. Just average cars a step behind the Japanese and Korean competition, high priced CUV's or whatever it is those blobs are classed as they are seilling and the same for rebadged Daewoo's as you are saying in Europe.
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:31 am

Quoting seemyseems (Reply 27):
sad enough seeing Ellesmere Port's production line reduced to one model

To be brutally honest I'm surprised its still going. I actually expected it to be one of the announced closures along side the Australian plants.

Leave UK manufacturing to Nissan and Toyota IMHO.
 
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seemyseems
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:23 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 29):
To be brutally honest I'm surprised its still going. I actually expected it to be one of the announced closures along side the Australian plants.

Leave UK manufacturing to Nissan and Toyota IMHO.

That was something I thought would happen too, with production down to one model. Obviously I don't want it to happen as it's a large employer in the area but you never know, the future might work in Opel/Vauxhall's favour.
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:29 pm

One missed opportunity for GM in Germany during restructuring was to split OV engineering and manufacturing. I don't know if unions would have allowed it, but if they separated those two and at some point divest from manufacturing just reap German engineering talent.

Not sure what German government was thinking, OV wouldn't have survived even one year under Magna. Magna is ULCC equivalent of auto industry and Magna's management with throw hissy fit once they fully realize OV's cost structure.
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:39 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 29):
Leave UK manufacturing to Nissan and Toyota IMHO.

So you want to close the massive Honda operation, how about Morgan, MINI, BMW's engine plant at Hams Hall, Rolls Royce, Bentley, Jaguar, Land Rover, McLaren, Fords Dagenham engine plant (currently makes 30% of Fords engine supply). There are more vehicles built in the UK today than at any time in the history of UK motor manufacturing.

Least we forget the the UK is also the centre of excellence for motorsport.
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:28 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 32):
Honda operation

Forgot them, I was kind of lumping them with T and N

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 32):
Rolls Royce, Bentley, Jaguar, Land Rover

Obviously not, but they're relatively niche. I was thinking more about mass-produced mid-market vehicles.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 32):
Fords Dagenham engine plant

It's not for me to reason why, but I'm not sure why that place wasn't shuttered decades ago.
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:03 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 33):

Obviously not, but they're relatively niche. I was thinking more about mass-produced mid-market vehicles.

I'd say the 360,000 or so cars produced by JLR is mass market.
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:35 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 32):

That is good info, I know about RR, Bentley and JLR but rest are news to me. Good that UK has manufacturing sector.
 
Stealthz
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:18 am

Quoting stealthz (Reply 26):
Quoting Flighty (Reply 21):Can you blame them for asking? I can if they have already decided to leave!

And events have shown they had already decided to quit Australia yet were still asking for handouts.. that sir, in this country is fraud!
 
Ken777
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Sat Dec 14, 2013 9:57 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 11):
GM believes they can get things done in 1-2 years. You can't get a thing done in 2 years.

I've long considered that the MBA Mentality. Dad worked for an oil company who brought in MBAs. They cut Exploration to increase current profits, got their big bonuses and headed off to another sucker of a company.

Regardless of the industry (or government level) there seems to be an inability of many to look long term and to work on long term projects.

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 12):
Chevy brand is the most diverse/confused as it gets. I don't think there a way out of it for GM.

GM simplified things when they dropped Pontiac & Saturn.

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 14):
Chevrolet are 6 months away from being the 7-year shirt sponsor of Manchester United,

And hopefully they will be able to negotiate a change of brands from Chevy to anything local.

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 24):
It is sad to hear what states/cities are ready to do for few jobs.

It is simply the public sector competing, just like the private sector does.
 
cptkrell
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:47 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 37):
Quoting Flighty (Reply 11):
GM believes they can get things done in 1-2 years. You can't get a thing done in 2 years.

I've long considered that the MBA Mentality. Dad worked for an oil company who brought in MBAs. They cut Exploration to increase current profits, got their big bonuses and headed off to another sucker of a company.

One or two years is one or two beers in the autos. When I was at GM, I saw clowns spend a year noodling a goddamn tape stripe on the hood of a friggin' car arguing about whether the accent color stripe should be 2mm wide or 2.5mm wide. When I was working on the Granada grille at Ford styling, the boss wanted to see a 1/16th inch difference in the black-out part of the grille surround. We spent two days fuckin' around, put the same grille back into the clay model without changing it. He approved it.

When I was at GM, we'd get some "trainees" in the design studio. My big boss and I would look at their resume's...the more degrees one had meant the less we trusted his expertise (how can you possibly know WTF you are doing in industry if you've spent all your time in school and not getting your fingers dirty?).
 
cptkrell
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:08 pm

Oh, and I forgot to opine in my previous post (Rep38) that it is about time that the GM hierarchy realized that they don't quite know what they are doing in Europe. One would think that "captains of industry" would have a clue...but let's go full power ahead to qualify the 'Peter Principal'.

Well, Dan Akerson, CEO (and CFU) of GM is retiring as we speak and Ms. Mary Barra will now run the entirety of the General Motors Corporation. I hope she produces a better track record than Mr. Akerson (or Danica Patrick, for that matter).
 
Flighty
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RE: GM To Drop Chevrolet Brand In Europe

Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:26 pm

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 38):
(how can you possibly know WTF you are doing in industry if you've spent all your time in school and not getting your fingers dirty?).

Very true; I always considered the airlines a bloody great business training. If you've never seen problems fixed... and results delivered, decisions fully credited/blamed on individuals... if you've never seen a functioning business, there is no way to explain one to somebody else.

Airlines are like walking a tightrope. You make bad route decisions or bad labor contracts, you WILL feel it quickly, and you could lose everything. Biz is not about politics and having your head up your own butt, or someone else's. It's about selling great products and not going broke.

GM forgot about that...

[Edited 2013-12-14 15:28:32]

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