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Aesma
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Alcohol At Work

Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:01 am

I'm doing a short internship at a new place and am hopeful to get hired in the coming days. My (future) colleagues enjoy a glass of red or white wine with their lunch. Our work is mostly at a desk although we can have to use a car, not dangerous tools or machines though.

What are your opinions and experience ?

This is in France.
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BMI727
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:12 am

Quoting Aesma (Thread starter):
What are your opinions and experience ?

It's probably okay as long as you're in France or are a member of the UAW.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
AR385
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:16 am

It really depends on the country and the industry. The US is very puritanical about alcohol consumption, yet, when I work there I have a beer or a glass of wine with lunch and I´ve never had any trouble. But just one. More than one and you are going to star getting stares from your peers.

In Mexico City on Fridays people take looooong lunches and drink a lot. Forget about doing business on a Friday afternoon there. In the rest of Mexico it´s not that usual. In the North it´s a few drinks with lunch and it´s ok. Brazil is just as relaxed. I guess the restriction in Latin America is to actually get intoxicated. Although for Mexico City you can waive that.

Of course, my field of work is mostly finance so I can´t hurt anyone with a drink during lunch. I´m not sure how it would be in other professions such as the medical one or ones that involve the constant use of machinery or driving.

Also, it´s bad to smell of alcohol in the mornings. You may be called in to have a chat with your boss and maybe sent home for the day. And that´s kind of everywhere I´ve been.
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:24 am

Never here in the US. No alcohol at all during work hours, even lunch.

Now, I spent a week Frankfurt attending a training seminar a few years ago and we had lunch at the airport employees' cafeteria and I seem to recall beer being available. I never drank any, but I seem to think some of the Germans we were with, did have a beer.

It really depends on the norm of the area you're in and the norms and expectations of the organization you're working with.

But, seeing that you're looking for a job with these folks, I'd abstain during work hours. It may be ok for an established employee, but an intern,,,
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WarRI1
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:24 am

Quoting Aesma (Thread starter):
What are your opinions and experience ?

As someone who has never been a drinker, but has seen much drinking in my lifetime. Everything in moderation. Do not learn the hard way. One drink maybe one too many as far as your employer, or driving goes. Time usually tells.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
melpax
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:55 am

As others have said, depends on the company, and your immediate boss in some circumstances. Obviouisly if your other colleagues enjoy a glass or 2 with lunch, then it sounds like there is no real issue, as long as you don't over do things & come back to the office under the weather...

Where I work (office job), it's no big issue to occasionaly have a couple of drinks with lunch, as long as you don't come back smelling of beer.. I'll normally take the afternoon off if I know that the lunch will be a big one.
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dc9northwest
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:28 am

A small percentage of people at my workplace drink alcohol with lunch (wine or beer).

I wouldn't say it's regarded as very unusual but, still, most people don't do that until dinner, when they drink quite a bit.

I'd advise very much against it if you have to use machinery (cars included).
 
idealstandard
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:47 am

I work for myself so at the end of the day I could probably do what I wanted, however I do have an example to set to my employees....

In all seriousness - if I drink even a little at lunch I'll get tired and won't be able to work through the rest of the afternoon.

We regularly pop to the local at 6PM after work for a quick pint though, that seems more natural to me.
 
PhilBy
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:45 am

Quoting idealstandard (Reply 7):
In all seriousness - if I drink even a little at lunch I'll get tired and won't be able to work through the rest of the afternoon.

I find a similar effect, so even though wine and beer is available I generally don't imbibe at lunchtime. It's asking for a bad case of quertyitis (azertyitis).
 
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Aesma
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:31 pm

Thanks for the answers so far. I will add that there is wine and beer available at the company restaurant.
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planewasted
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:34 pm

It never ever happens in Sweden. I drink non-alcoholic beer at lunch sometimes.
 
PhilBy
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:48 pm

It's cultural.

A UK colleague was on secondment in Germany. His child was attending a German school. There was some scheme where a number of parents could share lunch at the school. He was shocked to see teachers drinking alcohol with their school lunch. When he commented the reply was " No, no-one was drinking alcohol. They only had beer"

And the other classic: Why do German bars all serve milk.....




... Because they have to offer a non-alcoholic drink cheaper than the cheapest alcoholic drink. Coke is expensive.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:31 pm

When I first started working for the World's favourite airline (a LONG time ago now), it was almost compulsory to drink three or four pints lunchtime, then go back and operate heavy machinery or maintain planes!  Wow!

Even the American company I now work for provided wine with lunch in the staff canteens in the UK ten year's ago. Today that same company conducts random tests at its offices with a ZERO tolerance policy for drug or alcohol detection. It has totally killed mid-week socialising.

A couple of years ago I visited contractors' offices on Paris and Milan and they both still served wine with lunch (but at least this was just for office workers).
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WildcatYXU
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:33 pm

I see that things changed in France too in last 17 years. I went for training to the Bio-Merieux factory in Marcy-l'Étoile in 1996. I was shocked to find out that wine was served with food at the plant's cafeteria. That was completely out of question in Slovakia where I lived at the time despite the fact that almost everybody in Slovakia drinks a lot. Or because of it?
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vikkyvik
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:57 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
Never here in the US. No alcohol at all during work hours, even lunch.

Maybe not legally. But it certainly happens, though perhaps not frequently.

Only time I've experienced it was when I was on a work trip, visiting a customer. On the 2nd day, at lunch, they said we could order a drink.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:02 pm

Can't really drink when you fly (obviously) but when the beer light goes on after your flights............ 
 
andz
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:42 pm

I worked for a German company based in Frankfurt, for the distributor of another German company in Freiburg with an affiliate in Milwaukee, and in all three canteens beer was available at lunch.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
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Moose135
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:59 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
Never here in the US. No alcohol at all during work hours, even lunch.

That really depends on where you work and the type of work you do. It is certainly less prevalent than in some countries, and it's not as widespread in the US as it once was, but to say "never" isn't accurate either. The days of the three martini lunch may be over, but a glass of wine or beer, especially at a "business lunch" isn't unheard of, even these days.
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andz
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:20 pm

Alcohol at work is different from alcohol at lunchtime. Here you won't find alcohol in any workplace (except a bar or restaurant, of course) but at a business lunch it is accepted and commonplace.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
blueflyer
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:44 pm

It's a strange cultural thing sometimes... My employer serves beer and red wine at the cafeteria of their French headquarters but does not tolerate any alcohol on the job in the US...
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steeler83
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:30 pm

Working as a caregiver in an assisted living community, alcohol is strictly prohibited...
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fr8mech
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:25 pm

Quoting moose135 (Reply 17):

That really depends on where you work and the type of work you do.

That's true. My experience is purely at an operations level. It is not permissible to drink at lunch (or 4 hours prior to work) regardless of job duties.
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Unless it's expressly prohibited, it's allowed.
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PC12Fan
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:28 pm

Quoting Aesma (Thread starter):
Alcohol At Work 

I'm all for it!

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
or are a member of the UAW.

Ouch!

Quoting planewasted (Reply 10):
I drink non-alcoholic beer at lunch sometimes.

What's the point??   
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lewis
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:02 am

I have never seen it happen here in the US, unless we have a planned connectivity event - those long lunches that usually mark the end of an early day. But that is something that maybe occurs once or twice a year and is part of a special lunch, definitely not an every day thing. Same goes for Greece, at my old job someone could get fired if (s)he was seen doing that. Maybe the big bosses do it on a long lunch by themselves but its usually the people way at the top who do not report to anyone. I have heard from friends that a glass of wine or a beer with lunch is not that unusual in France, especially out of Paris. Now that I work in Mexico City I have seen a lot of people walking around "tipsy" after lunchtime, I assume it is more accepted here, especially on Fridays.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:08 am

When I was doing an exchange rotation at a hospital in Spain, I was shocked when they served wine to the hospital staff on "Working Woman's Day." This would never be done at a hospital in the USA. It's not even something we'd discuss. It's just a given that you drink at home, not at work.
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kiwiinoz
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:12 am

Depends what your having for lunch. Peanut butter sandwiches brought from home, eaten at your desk, I would think it a bit weird if you cracked out a bottle of Chardonnay.

At a restaurant or cafe, different story.

For most people, one glass of wine consumed with a meal will noty impact your ability to drive or work.
 
BMI727
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:29 am

Quoting Aesma (Reply 9):
Thanks for the answers so far. I will add that there is wine and beer available at the company restaurant.

It's probably okay. It's France which means 1) they have a different attitude towards drinking (and working for that matter) 2) it's practically impossible to get fired and 3) if you do you'll probably end up making more money.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
Superfly
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:11 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
It's probably okay as long as you're in France or are a member of the UAW.

        
While the new guy on probation that isn't in the union is doing all the work!
In all seriousness, UAW guys are beer drinkers, not wine aficionados.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 2):
In Mexico City on Fridays people take looooong lunches and drink a lot.

Same here in Thailand but it's like that 5 days a week.
That's why I love working here.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
Never here in the US. No alcohol at all during work hours, even lunch.

A few of my past employers in San Francisco occasionally had wine over lunch with clients. Last Thursday of the month, we had wine tasting in the office starting at 4:30.
Another company I worked with had happy hour in the office every Friday starting at 5:00.
This is going back 12 years ago when the economy was booming. Most companies have stopped doing this out of fear of lawsuits or offending someone.
Companies in the US no longer have Christmas parties.
I find this ironic. I've been living and working here in Thailand for 3.5 years now which is a Buddhist country. Christmas is celebrated more here and most companies throw Christmas parties. We all party and drink heavily at Christmas parties here. Last year I had to help carry my boss to the car and a co-worker drove him home. There are no prudish, hang-ups here against having fun like in the US.
I don't miss the strict US work environment at all.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
But, seeing that you're looking for a job with these folks, I'd abstain during work hours. It may be ok for an established employee, but an intern,,,

That's good advice. Hopefully this is a paid internship. If it's a non-paid internship, they should be happy he even bothers to show up - drunk or sober.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 4):
As someone who has never been a drinker,

I find that surprising. At certain hours, I imagine you to have a beer or whiskey in your hand when your posting in the non-av forums.   

Quoting scbriml (Reply 12):
Even the American company I now work for provided wine with lunch in the staff canteens in the UK ten year's ago. Today that same company conducts random tests at its offices with a ZERO tolerance policy for drug or alcohol detection. It has totally killed mid-week socialising.

American companies have got rid of everything fun in the workplace.
Bring back the Concorde
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:35 am

From what I'm reading, it seems that a lot of non-US countries are more open to non-work hours alcohol. I wonder what the difference is between the US and other countries are. I can't really put my finger on it because there seem to be multiple variables involved.

From an American standpoint I can see how mixing work and alcohol (even after hours) is a bad idea, but I also see the foreign perspective of a glass of wine at lunch doesn't hurt anything. Any thoughts?
 
B777LRF
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:35 am

I attended an Airbus hosted seminar in TLS last year, which was also attended by airline representatives from all over the world - including several from the US. Come lunch time we all decamp to Airbus' in-house restaurant, where a nice 3-course service was lined up. Being a French company of much importance, obviously the restaurant had a sommelier on the payroll, who labored at length to describe the white wine for the starter, the red with the main and the sweet wine for the dessert. The look on the faces of the US contingent was priceless, the rest didn't seem to bat an eyelid.

Having a glass of wine or 2 with lunch is the height of civilization.
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Aesma
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:01 am

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 25):
Depends what your having for lunch. Peanut butter sandwiches brought from home, eaten at your desk, I would think it a bit weird if you cracked out a bottle of Chardonnay.

Actually the colleagues I mentioned were not lunching at the company restaurant but in the work space (where there is also a fridge, microwave oven, coffee machine...), sandwiches and the like, not with peanut butter but rather saucisson and sardines.
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varigb707
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:57 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 2):
Brazil is just as relaxed. I guess the restriction in Latin America is to actually get intoxicated.

As far is Brazil is concerned, there is no law enforcement out there. I've witnessed people driving and drinking. Once I saw a driver with a long neck on his hand, and couldn't careless. Occasionally, police will do a DWI/DUI check point, but that's it.
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PhilBy
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:59 am

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 29):
Come lunch time we all decamp to Airbus' in-house restaurant

There are in-house restaurants and in-house restaurants. There are 8 or 9 at TLS some with salons and clubs. Some are for the workers and some for the customers. These last are generally a bit more up-market

Company christmas lunch:
St Jaques et Gambas
Filet de canard de Barbarie Rossini et sa sauce aux cepes
Tatin Forestiere et ses asperges
Fin Briard aux truffes
Buche de noel maison

With glass of champagne to start and a mini bottle of red per person.

And all for ~5 euros.

Although that's trivial compared to the new years lunch.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:19 pm

Quoting Philby (Reply 11):
No, no-one was drinking alcohol. They only had beer"

especially in Bavaria beer is considered basic food like bread.

Interesting thing is, it has changed in the past 10/15 years. Many People cut drinking even beer during lunch, just water or similar.

That has to do with reduction of allowed blood alcohol, People depend on their driving licence. Even in the popular hang-outs for lunch like the famous Schuetzenwirt in Kelsterach many just stick with mineral water

Drinking in the Office however is a strcit no-no, although there are some companies where the Boss allowed it, often when he depends on the bottle himself.

Quoting Philby (Reply 32):
There are in-house restaurants and in-house restaurants

I'd like to see what they serve in Finkenwerder on that Occasion - Scholle Finkenwerder Art?



 
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AyostoLeon
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:39 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 33):

Was it not previously the case that the foreman on a construction site would provide the beer for the workers at lunch time?

Some years ago a cousin invited me to visit the postal office in Hamburg's City Nord where he and his wife worked. I noticed in the staff canteen they had various beers on offer.

Your mention of Finkenwerder Schollen brings back happy memories of when the family took the ferry from the Landungsbrücken and walked through the village for Sunday lunch.
The person with no dignity eats his dinner twice
 
FURUREFA
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:01 pm

In investment banking in NYC, a full bar is available on the client floor, which caters to meetings with, you guessed it, clients.

The folks from the sales/trading floor generally don't drink, but analysts/associates (20-28 year olds) in investment banks will generally drink beers on a Friday evening in a conference room and either go back to work or go home.
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:32 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 24):
It's not even something we'd discuss. It's just a given that you drink at home, not at work.

For some reason, your post reminded me of the first year I was a volunteer on my local fire department. They had beer in the soda machine...for 50 cents. There were rules as to when you could partake, but the beer was there. Sadly, the beer was gone about a year after I joined.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
Unless it's expressly prohibited, it's allowed.
You are not entitled to a public safe space.
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Aesma
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:00 pm

I just got confirmation that I'm hired !

Now I'm expected to start my first day by offering champagne...  
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Asturias
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:45 pm

For the love of all... have a glass of wine with lunch. I can't see anything wrong with it, a strange question really  
Tonight we fly
 
FlyboyOz
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:31 pm

was wondering whether pilots and flight attendants on french airlines are allowed to drink alcohol during inflight meal service.
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victrola
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:58 pm

I remember back in 1982 when I was working for a soft drink distributor in London. I used to go out with these guys on a truck and deliver soft drinks to pubs all over the city. If the manager was cool, he would offer us a pint. By about 11:00 in the morning we would all have had about 4 or 5 pints. I didn't think anything of it at the time. Today I think back on it and think it was insane. The other thing that blew my mind was that I was actually being paid to do this!
 
Airontario
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:15 pm

In Ontario drinking at lunch happens but it's not very prevelant. If you're at a restaurant with co-workers it happens, but never if your boss is around. In Quebec a drink at lunch is normal, if you're lucky your boss will be paying!
 
PanHAM
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:53 am

Quoting Aesma (Reply 37):
Now I'm expected to start my first day by offering champagne...

Vive La France and congratulations.

 
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bwest
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:39 am

Quoting Aesma (Reply 37):
I just got confirmation that I'm hired !

Now I'm expected to start my first day by offering champagne..

Congrats and santé!

My older colleages always tell how at lunch they got completely plastered. Nowadays there's a zero tolerance towards drinking here. Ah, the good old days...
 
smittyone
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:00 pm

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 29):
Having a glass of wine or 2 with lunch is the height of civilization.

Said every alcoholic ever  
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:50 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 37):
Now I'm expected to start my first day by offering champagne...

Odd tradition. You'd expect that the new-hire who hasn't even gotten a paycheck yet wouldn't be expected to bring champagne. Shouldn't they buy the champagne?

Anyway, congrats (and I want you to imagine an empty cargo bay here).
-Doc Lightning-

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StuckInCA
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:26 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
Never here in the US. No alcohol at all during work hours, even lunch.

That's not really true, but is usually the case. I know of major companies that have specific policies allowing one beer or glass of wine at lunch.
 
ImperialEagle
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:49 pm

I don't find it very reassuring to try to do business with someone who smells of alcohol. Oh, I've known quite a few people over the years that were "functioning" alcoholics and that is their business. I'm just saying I don't like it.
Don't get me wrong though, I enjoy my cocktails----I just drink when I'm not depended upon to be "on duty".

I once knew a chick that liked to say "if I can't drive drunk, how am I supposed to get to work?!" That was when I lived in Miami so I was not too surprised.  
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Kent350787
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:03 pm

Wasn't it only this year that beer was classed as alcohol in Russia?

When I started work 25 years ago (office work), the last Friday of the month was accepted as a multi-beer lunch. These days, a glass of beer or wine with a celebratory lunch is fine, but not the regular thing. And these days I don't like drinking during the day anyway.

Alcohol with celebrations in the office is also generally fine, although obvious drunkenness not so much.
 
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Aesma
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RE: Alcohol At Work

Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:20 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 42):
Vive La France and congratulations.

Thanks !

Quoting Airontario (Reply 41):
In Ontario drinking at lunch happens but it's not very prevelant. If you're at a restaurant with co-workers it happens, but never if your boss is around. In Quebec a drink at lunch is normal, if you're lucky your boss will be paying!

Up to us to decide which part of the country is more civilized !

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 45):
Odd tradition. You'd expect that the new-hire who hasn't even gotten a paycheck yet wouldn't be expected to bring champagne. Shouldn't they buy the champagne?

Anyway, congrats (and I want you to imagine an empty cargo bay here).

Thanks ! Yes I told them that I'd rather wait for the end of the (long) trial period. Although there are deals on champagne at the moment and my relatives are buying tons of it so it might not cost me much. I'll probably start with croissants on the first day.

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 47):
I don't find it very reassuring to try to do business with someone who smells of alcohol.

A glass during lunch shouldn't have you smelling alcohol, though. Unless it's a double scotch that is.

Quoting bwest (Reply 43):
Congrats and santé!

My older colleages always tell how at lunch they got completely plastered. Nowadays there's a zero tolerance towards drinking here. Ah, the good old days...

Thanks ! I've lunched with the (high up) person that made it happen yesterday at an Italian restaurant, he ordered half a liter of rosé to go with our woodfire cooked pizzas, and he was surprised when the waitress didn't offer us some grappa after dessert !
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams

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