Interesting NY Time Op-Ed On ND Oil Boom

jetblueguy22 · Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:45 pm

Found this surfing the web just a little while ago about a woman who moved to North Dakota looking for work. Kind of gives a little insight to how things are in the Western part of the state.

The oil boom has brought some much needed jobs and revenue to the state, but it happened way to quick. Some of these towns are exploding overnight. I know at UPS they were hiring drivers right off the street. Normally you have to wait years to get a position. Some of these towns can be downright scary. My roommate is from the western half of the state and he told me everybody there had a gun, when I asked why he said "Everybody has a gun, because everyone else has a gun." It's crazy how things are getting, but hopefully they can mellow out and become safe once again.

Anyways here is the link!

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/14/op...on-fumes-in-north-dakota.html?_r=1

Pat

cptkrell · Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:55 pm

I read the link, but $34 G a year doesn't sound like a lot being a truck parts runner. As far as guns go, an armed society is a polite society.

What happened to all the 14 to 16 dollar an hour hamburger flippers at McDonalds? Another hype?

BMI727 · Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:52 am

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 1):
I read the link, but $34 G a year doesn't sound like a lot being a truck parts runner.

Looking at the video, it appears she is driving a pickup truck which wouldn't take a CDL. $34k isn't that bad for a truck driver who isn't a real truck driver.

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 1):
What happened to all the 14 to 16 dollar an hour hamburger flippers at McDonalds?

That was real, maybe still is.

jetblueguy22 · Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:42 am

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 1):
I read the link, but $34 G a year doesn't sound like a lot being a truck parts runner.

I suppose lacking a CDL drives down pay. But one thing they did forget to factor in is how much less it costs to live in ND. Sure prices are higher, but if you make a short drive to say Walmart in Bismarck you get prices you would see anywhere in the state.

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 1):
What happened to all the 14 to 16 dollar an hour hamburger flippers at McDonalds? Another hype?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 2):
That was real, maybe still is.

They certainly are still out there. But I think a lot of people expect to just come out here and walk into a 100,000 dollar job, which just isn't the case. You can make good solid money, but not everyone is robbing the bank.

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 1):
As far as guns go, an armed society is a polite society.

I am not an anti gun person by any means, but it is far from polite out there. Like I mentioned I heard the story from a buddy. He's a big gun enthusiast, but even he said it was a little disconcerting seeing everybody and their mother walking around with a hand gun.
Pat

WestJet747 · Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:26 pm

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 1):
I read the link, but $34 G a year doesn't sound like a lot being a truck parts runner.

The skills needed for her job aren't particularly special. $34K/year sounds about right to me.

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 1):
As far as guns go, an armed society is a polite society.

The true test of a polite society is one that can get along without weapons.

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 1):
What happened to all the 14 to 16 dollar an hour hamburger flippers at McDonalds?

I don't know about North Dakota, but they certainly still do exist in Northern Alberta where they're having their oil boom. Cost of living is fairly high up there as well, but fast food cashiers are doing well for themselves.

flymia · Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:39 pm

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 1):
I read the link, but $34 G a year doesn't sound like a lot being a truck parts runner.

Sounds like pretty good pay for driving a pick up truck around if you ask me, especially with the cost of living in North Dakota. Wages are very very stagnant in the U.S. these days. Florida Government attorneys barely make $40,000 their first few years, Airline pilots make under $34,000. $34,000 to drive a pick truck with no CDL and no special training. Sounds like great pay!

Okie · Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:38 pm

Quoting flymia (Reply 5):
Sounds like pretty good pay for driving a pick up truck around if you ask me, especially with the cost of living in North Dakota. Wages are very very stagnant in the U.S. these days. Florida Government attorneys barely make $40,000 their first few years, Airline pilots make under $34,000. $34,000 to drive a pick truck with no CDL and no special training. Sounds like great pay!

The article seems to lack a lot of information, first thing I noticed is that because of the housing shortage most employers include housing.
No mention was made of that and considering how biased the article was then I am going to assume that housing was included in her pay.
34k is not bad money with housing, utilities included in your salary.

Okie

casinterest · Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:47 pm

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 3):
But one thing they did forget to factor in is how much less it costs to live in ND. Sure prices are higher, but if you make a short drive to say Walmart in Bismarck you get prices you would see anywhere in the state.

I'll be honest. If they were paying for fuel and a few others, 34 K is pretty good to be nothing more than a NAPA delivery person.

Mir · Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:51 pm

Well that wasn't a particularly enlightening video. There are some significant issues with what's going on in North Dakota, and they deserve better than that piece.

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 1):
As far as guns go, an armed society is a polite society.

There's a guy in a movie theater in Florida who'd like to disagree with that, but he's dead now.

Quoting flymia (Reply 5):
Sounds like pretty good pay for driving a pick up truck around if you ask me, especially with the cost of living in North Dakota.

The cost of living in that part of North Dakota can be very high, because there isn't enough housing. Unless you want to live in a trailer without running water, as she did.

-Mir

rfields5421 · Wed Jan 15, 2014 6:11 pm

Quoting okie (Reply 6):
first thing I noticed is that because of the housing shortage most employers include housing.

I'm hearing very different - mostly from oil field workers, but a few of the family members working.

Jobs that do have housing are shared apartments with two unrelated people per bedroom, and a couple more on the couch.

RV owners are a bit better off, but nowhere as good of conditions as the Eagle Ford Shale.

Cost of RV lots without water and utilities is $700-900 per month. Vice full utilities in south Texas for $600 + metered electricity.

Generator gasoline runs $30-40 per day. Propane for heating, hot water and refrigerator runs $300 per month.

$2,100 per month for an RV space in the middle of a frozen mud hole is a bit much. So it takes at least $6,500 per month gross income to come close to break even.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 2):
That was real, maybe still is.

Down to near $10.50 with a maximum of 29 hours per week according to two friends up there right now whose wife / girlfriend does the job.

And that Big Mac combo is still running about $12.50 - because of 'increased labor costs'.

$304.50 per week before taxes and social security - is about $15 k per year. They barely make their expenses but do the job to get out of the trailer.

jetblueguy22 · Wed Jan 15, 2014 6:41 pm

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 4):
The true test of a polite society is one that can get along without weapons.

Absolutely agree. I have nothing against guns, but you shouldn't need to have one because of constant concern.

Quoting Mir (Reply 8):
Well that wasn't a particularly enlightening video.

It is for people who don't know a whole lot about it and just hear about the high pay these jobs offer. You hear a lot of positive about the boom. Not much about the negatives.

Quoting Mir (Reply 8):
There are some significant issues with what's going on in North Dakota, and they deserve better than that piece.

They absolutely do need recognition. But there isn't much out there on the bad. News networks need to start broadcasting the bad and maybe this is the start.
Pat

Okie · Wed Jan 15, 2014 6:55 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 9):
I'm hearing very different - mostly from oil field workers, but a few of the family members working.

I personally only know about a dozen or so working up there.
They all work two weeks on one week off.
They work for several companies but all report living in portable dormitory type housing with water, heat, electricity, kitchen and laundry facilities generally referred to as a man camp.
One of the issues I did hear them complain about though was the new portable housing was equipped with the instant water heaters which pulled so much current that they had to limit running only four showers at a time due to the electric company will only supply 200amp service.

They usually change shifts on a week day so their time off includes a week end at home. They work as many hours as they can while in ND as there is nothing else to do and hit overtime 1.5 the hourly rate by the end of the 3rd work day, an 84-90 week is common.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 9):
And that Big Mac combo is still running about $12.50 - because of 'increased labor costs'

Food costs are beyond belief unless you venture to Dickenson where a Wal-Mart is available. Short distances due to the weather and increased traffic turns 1 hour trip into a 2 hour trip.
I was just talking with a friend last week who works ND stopped and got an 8" personal pizza $27.00 and a 20oz bottle of Coke $4.00. $31.00 for lunch. Wow!

I expect the industry to level off the massive growth by about 4th quarter 2014 and start pulling back a little in ND but by no means getting slow.

Okie

rfields5421 · Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:38 pm

Quoting okie (Reply 11):
They work for several companies but all report living in portable dormitory type housing with water, heat, electricity, kitchen and laundry facilities generally referred to as a man camp.

I thought they had to pay for those rooms. But it's a fluid working situation. Most of the folks I know won't do dad only and leave family at home.

ER757 · Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:50 pm

the first thing I thought is that she should be fired immediately for driving with that little foo-foo dog on her lap!!

cptkrell · Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:32 pm

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 4):
Quoting cptkrell (Reply 1):
As far as guns go, an armed society is a polite society.

The true test of a polite society is one that can get along without weapons.

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 10):
Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 4):
The true test of a polite society is one that can get along without weapons.

Absolutely agree. I have nothing against guns, but you shouldn't need to have one because of constant concern.

I guess I'm talking about where I live here in the hollers. I probably shouldn't have made that opinion in reference to FL or this deadly incident. Born and lived in FL for about 18 years (Miami area) but I shouldn't have opined as I knew anything as such currently. I know what it's like around here, though. Only the occasional stupid goobers settle their shit with firearms unless, of course, big-money drugs are involved.

Oooops..I forgot over zealous ATF agents raiding a local moonshine still. Good for TV, though.

Back to the point I was really previously inferring (probably poorly with my "armed society statement") : maybe this former officer is a little screwed up in thought processes at his age and/or because of other mental issues. I'm thinking that eventually this may come to light and will be (or at least should be, IMHO) of a greater public concern than about personal firearms.

DfwRevolution · Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:53 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 8):
There's a guy in a movie theater in Florida who'd like to disagree with that, but he's dead now.

True, but the guy was shot dead by a former police officer. Even in a gun control fantasy land, they are the ones we are supposed to trust with carrying firearms.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 4):
The true test of a polite society is one that can get along without weapons.

Good manners would not solve mental health problems, which are common among criminals and mass shooters.

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 10):
I have nothing against guns, but you shouldn't need to have one because of constant concern.

Do you wear a seat belt when you ride in a car?
Do you have fire alarms or fire extinguishers in your home?
Have you ever learned CPR?

If you have, then you must live with "constant concern" of something terrible happening to you.

jetblueguy22 · Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:11 pm

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 15):
Do you wear a seat belt when you ride in a car?
Do you have fire alarms or fire extinguishers in your home?
Have you ever learned CPR?

If you have, then you must live with "constant concern" of something terrible happening to you.

Apples and Oranges. You are doing preventative measures to make sure an accident doesn't happen. Shooting someone is far from an accident. Period.
Pat

WestJet747 · Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:51 pm

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 15):
Good manners would not solve mental health problems, which are common among criminals and mass shooters.

Good mannered societies take care of their mentally ill.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 15):
Do you wear a seat belt when you ride in a car?
Do you have fire alarms or fire extinguishers in your home?
Have you ever learned CPR?

If you have, then you must live with "constant concern" of something terrible happening to you.

Seat belts don't kill people.
Fire alarms don't kill people.
CPR doesn't kill people.

What point are you trying to make exactly?

KaiGywer · Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:54 am

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 3):
But one thing they did forget to factor in is how much less it costs to live in ND.

Quoting flymia (Reply 5):
Sounds like pretty good pay for driving a pick up truck around if you ask me, especially with the cost of living in North Dakota.

Quoting flymia (Reply 5):
$34,000 to drive a pick truck with no CDL and no special training. Sounds like great pay!

Housing out there is ridiculous. So $34k will not get you by on your own in the Bakken. Hell, even in Bismarck, you'd be hard pressed to find something decent for less than $8-900/mo for a two bedroom apartment.

Aeri28 · Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:45 pm

There is an excellent board on the North Dakota section of City Forums. Very widely read and tons of first hand accounts from locals, people who moved there looking for work and those who want to..

http://www.city-data.com/forum/

Mir · Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:46 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 15):
True, but the guy was shot dead by a former police officer. Even in a gun control fantasy land, they are the ones we are supposed to trust with carrying firearms.

I trust current police officers with carrying firearms. I don't see why I should necessarily trust former police officers any more than the next guy.

-Mir

yyz717 · Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:04 pm

As someone said above, this ND oil boom is no different than any other, and replicates what is being experienced in Fort McMurray, AB. High salaries offset by a high cost of living. Some people do very well, others manage to get by. It can take years or decades for the infrastructure build-up to "catch up" with the population growth. The poor social conditions associated with a boom area (high crime, high drug use, prostitution, a transient population, a surplus of men, poor housing) are a side-effect in an otherwise positive situation.

It's hard to have sympathy for a low-skill truck driver who voluntarily moves to ND to join the boom and then cannot make ends meet. She has many options: work more hours, get a second job, leave ND, reduce her expenses.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 4):
The true test of a polite society is one that can get along without weapons.

Well said. I can't imagine why anyone in ND needs a gun anyway. Are there wild animals in the remaining woods that need to be shot for self-protection? Doubt it.

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Thread starter):
The oil boom has brought some much needed jobs and revenue to the state, but it happened way to quick. Some of these towns are exploding overnight.

Unfortunately, there is no sizable city in ND (or even a nearby state) that can absorb a large influx of workers as well as add infrastructure relatively easily. Also, I've read that many of the shale gas deposits are depleting quickly which may lead to a bust in 20-30 years.

Interesting NY Time Op-Ed On ND Oil Boom

Interesting NY Time Op-Ed On ND Oil Boom

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