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varigb707
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J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:12 am

"By midday Wednesday (1700 GMT), a petition on the White House website calling for the deportation of the Canadian-born teen idol had garnered 103,000 names -- easily surpassing the threshold of 100,000 signatures required for presidential consideration."

Here's more on this...
http://celebrity.yahoo.com/news/peti...ber-obama-39-basket-173904761.html

http://i59.tinypic.com/21nnnz9.jpg
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Airstud
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:16 am

What does "prez consideration" mean? And I mean generally, not specific to this nugacity.

Doesn't 100,000 signatures just mean that the White House has to respond to it? As in, Jay Carney's assistant #534 writing a brief statement that gets filed in the bowels of the White House website?

(And yes, I did use the word "nugacity" and I would do it again.)
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EA CO AS
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:24 am

Interestingly, some misguided teenage girl somewhere (probably, anyway) started a petition to keep him from being deported.

Last I checked, THAT petition only had about 2,000 signatures on it.   
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srbmod
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:43 am

Well considering barely a week a later, he's gotten himself arrested again, this time for assaulting a limo driver in Toronto last month, he may soon be persona non grata here.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/29/showbi...n-bieber-toronto-arrest/index.html
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:04 am

Quoting srbmod (Reply 3):
he may soon be persona non grata here.

It's impossible to expel a citizen from his own country... though certain government agencies may try to abduct him to improve the state of the union. 


Well... I've listened to JB (sad to see he shares the initials with James Bond, and even Jim Beam) only once.

Why don't I like him?


Because he doesn't seem to care about anything...



David
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srbmod
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:22 am

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 4):
It's impossible to expel a citizen from his own country...

I'm talking about here in the US. Criminal convictions can prevent someone from being allowed into the US (or if living here legally, can get you deported), and is true in a number of countries.
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:00 pm

He is not a citizen. He is either on "O" visa or permanent resident. He can be deported if he is convicted, which is very unlikely because all high-paid hot shot attorneys are ready to keep his record clean.

Here are the arguments I heard from Mark O'Mara and Mark Geragos
Throwing eggs - No big deal, common for any teenagers, no one is hurt, settle for money
DUI - 0.02 is nothing, couple hours of community service (he can even bring along few thousand teenage girls) record is expunged.

So he is good for now.

I believe there was a petition to deport Piers Morgan(CNN) with 100K+ signatures.
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melpax
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:06 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 6):
I believe there was a petition to deport Piers Morgan(CNN) with 100K+ signatures.

Brett Lee nearly took care of Piers here in Melboune a few weeks back....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DZQIjp4vjo
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Aesma
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:11 pm

Last time I checked the US was selling itself as a democracy, so I doubt a petition like that can get anything accomplished.
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MD11Engineer
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:11 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 6):
He is not a citizen. He is either on "O" visa or permanent resident. He can be deported if he is convicted, which is very unlikely because all high-paid hot shot attorneys are ready to keep his record clean.

But if he gets convicted of a felony in Canada, the US (and other countries) can deny him entry. One question on the visa form is "Have you ever been arrested or convicted of a crime of moral turpitude?".
It seems that you Canucks will get stuck with him.

Jan
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offloaded
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:45 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 9):
One question on the visa form is "Have you ever been arrested or convicted of a crime of moral turpitude?".

Very true, but I think its one question that's not on the form that counts more, and that is: "Are you worth $160 million?"
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WingsFan
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:20 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 9):
But if he gets convicted of a felony in Canada, the US (and other countries) can deny him entry.

I am sure Canadian authorities will keep the larger interests of the country in mind and not convict him. A picture of a frustrated millionaire teenager with too much money and too little control prowling streets doesn't look too appealing.

Now on the other hand if he does get deported, I would say that's one immigration reform both parties will come together for.

On a serious note...he is a just a teenager, I hope he gets some proper guidance from his family and not from his handlers and other 'entourage'.


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PanHAM
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:10 pm

Quoting WingsFan (Reply 11):
hope he gets some proper guidance from his family and not from his handlers and other 'entourage'.

from what I read about his immediate producers, the management should rather keep them away from the kid and take custody of him, making him very clear that all the good life can be over as quick as the genie jumps back into the lamp.

His progenitor was a hit and run and came back to the kid when he noticed that he became a millionaire and now he lives on that money doing nothing but getting little Justin into Trouble.

That single mother of hos is not much better as an influence.

If they stay near him much longer, Canada may be the only Country he can travel and the Canucks are stuck with him.

.
.
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Arrow
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:13 pm

Well, there are benefits to getting your green card revoked and being deported back home. He won't have to file (and pay) US income tax any more. That should save him a few bucks. On the other hand --- the US now has an exit tax that applies to any expat (or green card holder) worth more than $2 million. That might sting -- but it's a one-shot deal.
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seb146
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:28 pm

Again: Why is this getting more attention than homeless veterans and starving children in this country?
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Maverick623
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:29 pm

Ironically, a DUI conviction will bar a foreigner's entry into Canada.

I know many a flight crew that have a "no Canada" restriction because of it.
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luckyone
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:37 pm

Quoting srbmod (Reply 5):
I'm talking about here in the US. Criminal convictions can prevent someone from being allowed into the US (or if living here legally, can get you deported), and is true in a number of countries.
Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 6):
He is not a citizen. He is either on "O" visa or permanent resident. He can be deported if he is convicted, which is very unlikely because all high-paid hot shot attorneys are ready to keep his record clean.

Amy Winehouse was prevented from entering the United States in 2008 to attend the Grammys for legal problems. This isn't unheard of.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 14):
Again: Why is this getting more attention than homeless veterans and starving children in this country?

Because those stories don't sell newspapers. Sad really.
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:39 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 8):
Last time I checked the US was selling itself as a democracy, so I doubt a petition like that can get anything accomplished.

Why not? "We the people" can always ask our government to do anything. Perhaps Obama has to speak out publicly about the questionable role model called Justin Beaver.

Well, you can do exactly the same in Germany - http://epetitionen.bundestag.de/ - and you can also demand everything you can dream of. Surpassing a certain number of signatures, a committee from the German parliament then has to meet you and discuss options for legislation.


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DocLightning
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:58 pm

In all honesty: why do you care? Why do you hate Justin Beiber?

I'm not a fan of his work or his behavior although I know very little about either. And driving drunk (that's one of his charges, right?) is something that puts you on my "dead to me" list.

But seriously, I've never met him and never will. Nothing that he has done or will do is likely to affect my life in any meaningful way. I care much more about corrupt politicians and laws and policies that impact my life than I do about the behavior of some 19yo pop star with poor decision-making skills. Why should any of us be wasting our energy hating him or even following his antics?
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elbandgeek
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:11 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 18):
Why do you hate Justin Beiber?

Because aside from being a horrible "artist", he has a legion of millions of impressionable children who believe he's god and will vocally defend everything he does. He acts like he is above the law, can do whatever he pleases, and doesn't have to be held responsible for his actions. He is quite possibly the worst celebrity role model on the planet and is teaching children that his behavior is ok "because he's just a kid". He's not a kid, he's legally an adult and should act like one. He could have killed someone and his "beliebers" would act like it was no big deal, and that is a huge problem.
 
Arrow
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:07 pm

Quoting elbandgeek (Reply 19):
Because aside from being a horrible "artist", he has a legion of millions of impressionable children who believe he's god and will vocally defend everything he does.

Yeah, but they will grow up and they will put him behind them. This is no different than 1960s Beatlemania -- except they had talent of course.

I'm looking forward to not hearing, seeing, or reading anything else about this kid. The fact that he's Canadian is mildly embarrassing, but it's not like he doesn't have like-minded peers in the US carrying on in a similar fashion. Lindsey Lohan? Miley Cyrus? Britney Spears?
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RussianJet
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:08 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 18):
behavior of some 19yo pop star with poor decision-making skills

The fact that he's a poor role model for millions is a concern, but I personally apportion far more blame to those responsible for making him such, the media and his own agents for example, than I do to him personally. He might not be a kid now as such, but he sure was when he got into the business.

As for his days in the US being numbered, I highly doubt that. He's not up for murder, and he has money.
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dtw2hyd
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:25 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 21):
The fact that he's a poor role model for millions is a concern

That is kind of a norm now-a-days. Parents have same dilemma when Hanna Montana starts twerking or a well respected player involved in a something.
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luckyone
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:38 pm

Quoting elbandgeek (Reply 19):
Because aside from being a horrible "artist", he has a legion of millions of impressionable children who believe he's god and will vocally defend everything he does.

Elvis
The Beatles
David Cassidy
Leif Garret
NKOTB
NSYNC
Backstreet Boys
Britney Spears
Lady Gaga
Now the Biebs...in a few years a new generation of impressionable teens will find somebody else that their parents hate to latch onto.

If you don't want your child listening to or watching Justin Bieber, then don't allow him into your house unless it's the radio. Or at least make your (understood you, not YOU) children pay for it themselves.
 
prebennorholm
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:26 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 21):
...I personally apportion far more blame to those responsible for making him such, the media and his own agents for example, than I do to him personally. He might not be a kid now as such, but he sure was when he got into the business.

Very well said!

That poor kid needs all the help he can get. All those years, which other boys use to transition from kid to man, were stolen away from under his feet. He sure needs help to catch up fast.

If somebody should be punished, then it has to be his managers or agents. For child abuse.
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mham001
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:34 am

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 24):
If somebody should be punished, then it has to be his managers or agents. For child abuse.

Why would his parents escape blame?
 
luckyone
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:51 am

Quoting mham001 (Reply 25):
Why would his parents escape blame?

IMHO anyone who allows their child to be a "child star" is a REALLY BAD PARENT at the least. Adolescence is an awkward-enough time. Most kids are starting to develop abstract thought, but can't quite process reality. The complete non-reality and disorienting experience of fame, public scrutiny, and the inevitable burnout and fade, makes a recipe for really screwing up somebody. The road is littered with them. Take Jennifer Capriati, pressed into the big girl game of tennis at age 13 she was given adult responsibilities (media darling, star...family breadwinner...at the age of 13. She's had constant issues since. Britney Spears is another excellent example: she is in her 30's and still needs her daddy to make decisions for her. She wasn't allowed the opportunity to learn how to screw up, fall down, and pick herself back up--without the world watching. We all need the opportunity to say "whoops, that was a really bad idea," and be able to pick up and move on and put it behind us. And we need it without having a camera in our faces, or the experience plastered across the internet and the 6 o'clock news, or on youtube for eternity.
 
ltbewr
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:56 am

A USA citizen cannot enter Canada if they have a DUI conviction. I don't think we are as fussy for visitors to the USA, but if Bieber is convicted of a felony crime, he could be excluded from entering the USA. Problem is that he would likely get an exemption as an entertainer.
 
flymia
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:07 am

Quoting Arrow (Reply 13):
any expat (or green card holder)

He does not have a green card, he is here only on a visa.

A DUI alone will never deport a legal resident, for a visa holder I guess it is more possible but still unlikely. The bigger problem would be the Egging and even bigger the Assault from Canada. He may have some problems but honestly worse case his Visa is revoked he takes voluntary departure and has no issues coming back to the U.S. That is his worst case scenario and an unlikely one.
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Aesma
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:09 am

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 17):
Why not?

Because you can't treat individual people that way, it's unfair. Besides, I'm sure some petitions aren't allowed, like one asking for the resignation of Obama (or any elected person for that matter).
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Mike89406
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:30 am

The problem is too man people worry about celebrities. I have 99 problems of my own and JB isn't one.

Seriously though I'm glad someone else will BieberSit him for a while...
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:13 am

Quoting varigb707 (Thread starter):
"By midday Wednesday (1700 GMT), a petition on the White House website calling for the deportation of the Canadian-born teen idol had garnered 103,000 names -- easily surpassing the threshold of 100,000 signatures required for presidential consideration."

Justin Beeper got in trouble

        

[Edited 2014-01-31 02:14:31]
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CXfirst
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:40 am

Quoting flymia (Reply 28):
He does not have a green card, he is here only on a visa.

IIRC, he is on a visa of some sort for entertainers.

This petition will not do anything, the only response the white house will make will be a generic one about the judicial case being ongoing and they cannot comment on it or make a decision regarding it.

-CXfirst
 
Mike89406
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:57 am

Just admit it y'all have Bieber Fever.   
 
PanHAM
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:01 am

Realisticly, he's not Justin Bieber, he is a Business and the USA will not extradite a Business.

There are hordes of People making Money with him and an Armada of lawyers will find a way to Keep him in the Country. Simple as that.
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varigb707
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:47 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 2):

Last I checked, THAT petition only had about 2,000 signatures on it.   

Check it again....  
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rfields5421
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:05 pm

Quoting luckyone (Reply 16):
Amy Winehouse was prevented from entering the United States in 2008 to attend the Grammys for legal problems. This isn't unheard of.

Winehouse had no trouble getting into the US - in 2007. But later that year, she was arrested for marijuana possession in Norway and eventually pleaded no-contest. Even so, her visa request for an appearance at the Grammy's was not denied, it just took too long to obtain clearance. The visa request was submitted very late, and when she didn't get quick special handling, her managers withdrew the visa application.


Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 9):
But if he gets convicted of a felony in Canada, the US (and other countries) can deny him entry. One question on the visa form is "Have you ever been arrested or convicted of a crime of moral turpitude?".

Since he doesn't have to fill out a new visa application - his is not ask the question everytime he enters the US. Yes, conviction of a felony can get him denied entry. But it almost always requires that he serve prison time to be later denied entry.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 27):
A USA citizen cannot enter Canada if they have a DUI conviction.

There is a process for allowing entry into Canada. Even G.H.W Bush was allowed to visit Canada, though being President of the US at the time might have helped get him a waiver.

Quoting flymia (Reply 28):
for a visa holder I guess it is more possible but still unlikely

The level of Beiber's offenses are so minor that US immigration won't even bother to consider revoking his visa or denying him entry.

Unless you count his music, public image as offensive. Which I agree is very bad - but not legally prosecutable.
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smittyone
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:43 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 29):
Because you can't treat individual people that way, it's unfair.

The people of a democracy have every right to petition their government regarding which foreigners receive or preserve the privilege of visitation from abroad. If citizens have objections to the conduct of authorized visitors the democratic thing is to express those objections to leadership.

The unfair and undemocratic thing to do would be to actually ride his ass out of here on a rail, which I'm sure some folks are considering at this point.
 
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Aesma
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:27 pm

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 37):
The people of a democracy have every right to petition their government regarding which foreigners receive or preserve the privilege of visitation from abroad. If citizens have objections to the conduct of authorized visitors the democratic thing is to express those objections to leadership.

So, are you against equality, or are you saying that all people committing the same offense should receive the same penalty ?
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flyingturtle
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:51 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 38):
So, are you against equality, or are you saying that all people committing the same offense should receive the same penalty ?

The petition is not a legal instrument in itself. By signing the petition you cannot create any unjust law and you cannot force the government to do anything unjust. It just forces you to hear your cause, and it's up to the White House to follow up with any action, be it just or unjust.

You're forgetting that each person is perfectly equal in starting and signing such a petition.

And Mr. Beaver's lawyers will make sure he isn't deported unlawfully.


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smittyone
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:19 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 38):
So, are you against equality, or are you saying that all people committing the same offense should receive the same penalty ?

What are you talking about? Of course I believe in equality.

But being a guest in someone else's home is a privilege, not a right. And the guest should act accordingly. If one's conduct while traveling or living abroad causes problems for his or her host then the host has every right to ask them to leave...people are apparently petitioning their government to do exactly that in the case of young Mr. Bieber based on his recent antics. The very essence of a Republic. Unless you'd prefer somebody just took it upon him/herself to push him into the St. Lawrence River?

I don't know what your issue is with the US but if you're trying to guide me into some kind of admission that paints me as a hypocrite because it conflicts with one or more of our 'national myths' then that effort is futile. I am one man, I subscribe to my own carefully considered (in the majority of cases) beliefs that may or may not coincide with those that are put forth as the Party Line of the United States. So please stop trying to pin me down to them in these threads.
 
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Aesma
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:49 pm

The petition is a US thing but until something happens I can't judge, however what I'm reading here is already alarming. Judging people unfairly because of a petition seems the opposite of justice, be it about an actual crime, or the right to stay in a country.
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zippyjet
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:16 pm

If he got deported, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it nor if he was allowed to move freely about the country. But, if he did more of his antics and the result was someone hurt or worse. Then that's a different story altogether.
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YYZatcboy
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:08 am

Canada has a "You broke him, you keep him" policy that will prevent him from being returned to Canada :P
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cjg225
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:49 am

Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 43):
Canada has a "You broke him, you keep him" policy that will prevent him from being returned to Canada :P

You manufactured a defective product.  
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NOLAWildcat
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:05 am

I'm not a fan of Justin Bieber. He's another example of a spoiled child star that lives in a world of few consequences. That said, I suspect he's largely a product of his upbringing and a large proportion of the blame for the behavior we've seen can be laid at the feet of his management and family. I hope for his sake that he can turn his life around and not become another cautionary tale.

I doubt anything will come of his latest brushes with the law. Probably probation and/or community service given the legal horsepower he can no doubt afford to retain.

But when I heard about the petition to deport him, I couldn't help but think of the line in the movie Slap Shot "Ogie Oglethorpe? I heard they tried to deport him back to Canada, but Canada wouldn't take him."
 
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Francoflier
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:49 am

All the legal woes, arrests, prison, even deportation would do nothing to him other than give him even more mediatic coverage. I doubt the average clueless teen looking for an idol in all the wrong places would even care about any of this.

The kid himself isn't even at fault. The music business sharks who created him from the ground up are having a field day with all the attention he is gathering and controversy he is creating.

Give it a few years, he'll hit puberty, grow too old and all the attention will turn onto the next child star that can make school girls scream.

Then the descent into hell will start. And that will be entertaining. Sad, I mean sad...
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
skywaymanaz
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:14 am

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 36):
There is a process for allowing entry into Canada. Even G.H.W Bush was allowed to visit Canada, though being President of the US at the time might have helped get him a waiver.

I don't recall Bush 41 having a DUI, I could be wrong about that. Bush 43 though (no H initial in his name) yes you would be correct about him having a DUI.

I do find some of the things on the petition site laughibly illegal. I may not agree with Piers Morgan but deporting him would seem to be at odds with fundamental liberty enjoyed by all in our country. If somehow accomplished it would clearly set a bad precedence. I don't agree with the UK banning entry for Michael Savage but that's their country and they can make their own rules even if they are very much at odds with ours. I do believe though if I went to Canada or the UK and behaved like "poor little misunderstood" Justin I'd have been deported by now.
 
rfields5421
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Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:19 am

Sorry - you are right - I typed the wrong set of initials   
Not all who wander are lost.
 
Mike89406
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RE: J Bieber's Days In The USA May Be Over....

Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:15 am

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