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Dreadnought
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Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:27 pm

Back in the 90s I travelled heavily throughout Russia, and the first thing I learned was that as soon as you stepped out of Moscow or St. Petersburg, you had better have a thick skin and a good sense of humor. Hotels with no running water (or brown water), bedsheets only big enough for a child, no heat and prison-quality furnishings, telephone service from the 1950s and shaky (if at all existant) internet service were to be expected more often than not, and you just learned to shake your head and laugh it off.

My last trip to Russia was in 2001, and already by then they were showing a lot of improvement. But according to this report (and others) there is still plenty of the 90's Russia in Sochi, in spite of years of preparation.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...otel-horrors-dangerous-conditions/

Are the Sochi Olympics going to be the butt of jokes for years to come?
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Stabilator
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:52 pm

I saw a picture on Twitter (from a major news source that escapes me atm) and the hotel water was brown. Hopefully it was an older picture and they've had time to rectify the problem.

Does anyone know if all the venues are completed and ready for competition? How is security being handled? Wasn't there some extremist widow running around last week?
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oly720man
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:17 pm

Is Sochi ready? If the powers that be say it's ready then it's ready.

Makes you wonder where the alleged $50billion went, though.

http://www.voanews.com/content/money...mes-raising-questions/1843380.html
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mt99
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:17 pm

Well the dogs are certainly not ready.

Awful Awful news

Russians say authorities rounding up, poisoning stray dogs before Olympics

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/05/world/europe/russia-sochi-stray-dogs/
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Mir
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:49 pm

Two good Deadspin articles on the subject:

http://deadspin.com/staying-in-sochi...s-a-hilarious-adventure-1515722114 (about the conditions)

http://deadspin.com/how-the-sochi-ol...e-a-51-billion-quagmire-1493890966 (about the larger history of the games)

They'll be able to get things in shape enough that the casual TV viewer won't notice, certainly. But that's the only thing I feel confident about.

Quoting oly720man (Reply 2):
Makes you wonder where the alleged $50billion went, though.

Corruption can do amazing things....

And just think, we get to do all this again in 2018 for the World Cup.  

-Mir
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Kiwirob
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:03 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):

My last trip to Russia was in 2001, and already by then they were showing a lot of improvement.

I've been travelling to Russia for the past 7 years, it's changing for the better every year.
 
tu204
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:50 pm

I am in Sochi right now and will be for the Olympic and Paralympic Games.

I have also read the articles today and am a little pissed off at the reporting.

Blown completely out of proportion. I have been to both the Coastal Village (Athletes Village) yesterday and the Endurance Village (cross country skiing and biathalon) just today. Looks completely good to me. Transport infrastructure works well.
Today I saw just one dog. When I got here two weeks ago there were more. So it seems like that problem is taken care of as well.

Also I had a chance to attend the dress rehearsal for the Opening Ceremony and was very impressed. I look forward to see how it will look on TV, but unfortunately I doubt that they will be able to project that entire atmosphere that you experience by just physically being there.

In my opinion, Sochi is ready.
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ZBBYLW
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:44 pm

Quoting tu204 (Reply 6):
Today I saw just one dog. When I got here two weeks ago there were more. So it seems like that problem is taken care of as well.

"So it seems like that problem is taken care of as well" Most people in the west don't necessarily consider this a positive thing. In fact many consider it very inappropriate.

The issues that have plagued Sochi at a price tag of a reported $50,000,000,000 (had to write all the zeros to see it) really made me appreciate how well the Vancouver Olympics went.

Edit: Autocorrect

[Edited 2014-02-05 14:41:09]
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Airontario
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:57 pm

I heard on CTV news (A trusted news source in Canada) that the Sochi Games are costing more than the past 20 Winter Olympics combined. Now I get that obviously every year the games will cost more money than the last ones, and I also get that most of this money is for infrastructure that will hopefully stay useful years after the games. However is this not a sign that perhaps, the Olympics should be awarded to cities with an already somewhat developed infrastructure as opposed to isolated underdeveloped cities? The Olympics should be a sporting spectacle, not just some ploy to ensure that the government pays for a city's infrastructure and new hip buildings.
 
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:08 pm

I saw on Facebook a picture Nastia Liukin posted in Sochi that was taken today, and there was no snow on the ground.
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:14 pm

Quoting tu204 (Reply 6):
So it seems like that problem is taken care of as well.

THAT is the problem  
 
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:05 pm

Quoting tu204 (Reply 6):

Is it any power cuts?
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:49 pm

Quoting mt99 (Reply 3):
Russians say authorities rounding up, poisoning stray dogs before Olympics

Yeah, I read that yesterday. Pretty despicable.

The Post had an interesting article about the hotel accomodations. Here is a link to the article;

http://nypost.com/2014/02/04/horribl...ions-for-winter-olympics-visitors/

Someone was quoted as saying they were confronted by three-legged dogs when they went to search for water. I am thinking the two-legged dogs around there are a bigger problem.
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WestJet747
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:23 am

Quoting tu204 (Reply 6):
Blown completely out of proportion.

Had the reporters been simply tweeting descriptions of the conditions, I would have no problem agreeing with you...but, the reporters have been sending back pictures of the sub-par conditions. How does one blow it out of proportion when there is plenty of photographic evidence that Sochi is in fact not ready?

Quoting tu204 (Reply 6):
Today I saw just one dog. When I got here two weeks ago there were more. So it seems like that problem is taken care of as well.

To many outside Russia, the way they're handling the stray dog issue is a bigger problem than the dogs themselves.

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 9):
I saw on Facebook a picture Nastia Liukin posted in Sochi that was taken today, and there was no snow on the ground.

I checked the weather there earlier today, and it was 7C at about 6:00PM local time.

If you recall the last Winter Olympics in Vancouver/Whistler, the temperature was colder than that and they were still considering it an issue. I guess only time will tell.

In related news, Shaun White has dropped out of one of the competitions due to the poor conditions of the course:

http://www.ctvnews.ca/sochi/shaun-wh...om-canadian-snowboarders-1.1671211
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Mir
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:20 am

Quoting tu204 (Reply 6):
I have been to both the Coastal Village (Athletes Village) yesterday and the Endurance Village (cross country skiing and biathalon) just today. Looks completely good to me.

Sure, from the outside. But what about the inside? What about the water quality? What about the plumbing? You can't just put up a bunch of buildings that have nice facades and say you're ready.

Quoting Airontario (Reply 8):
I heard on CTV news (A trusted news source in Canada) that the Sochi Games are costing more than the past 20 Winter Olympics combined. Now I get that obviously every year the games will cost more money than the last ones, and I also get that most of this money is for infrastructure that will hopefully stay useful years after the games. However is this not a sign that perhaps, the Olympics should be awarded to cities with an already somewhat developed infrastructure as opposed to isolated underdeveloped cities?

The reason the Sochi games are costing so much isn't because they didn't have infrastructure in place, it's because of the rampant corruption that drives the cost of everything up. Sure, they didn't have infrastructure in place, but it shouldn't have cost this much to build what they did.

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 9):
I saw on Facebook a picture Nastia Liukin posted in Sochi that was taken today, and there was no snow on the ground.

Of course there's no snow. Sochi is a beach resort. But to be fair, they only really need the snow in the mountains - everything else is indoors. Vancouver isn't a city that gets a lot of snow either, and it wasn't an issue there.

-Mir
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:57 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):

Then Friends, Arsenio Hall and espically Seinfeld should all be the rage. Of course propaganda pollyanna network NBC who has a stranglehold on Olympic coverage for gazillion years thinks all is a bowl of cherries and not nyet. I'll believe it when I see it at the end of these Winter games to see if Sochi and Russia were ready for this Olympian task. At least we aren't boycotting them the way we did back in 1980 which just screwed our athletes.
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ltbewr
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:50 am

Many Olympics have had huge problems with being ready when they start and when they get underway, especially in smaller cities and isolated locations. I recall the huge problems with the 1980 Winter Games in Lake Placid as to transportation, limited lodging, restaurants and so on.
Still, I don't recall the degree of problems that Sochi is showing. I think the IOC in the future will have to consider the real costs to hosts of the both Summer and Winter Olympics and to limit them. We can't have the massive debt and corruption that far too many venues, including Sochi have had.
 
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:32 am

To me it's not even costs, but as others said, the general infrastructure effort needed. I mean, there should be less money spent on bribing the IOC and making CG renderings and more on building some venues and roads and hotels etc. if there aren't any already, before a site can be considered for the Olympics. BTW the other day a cycling ring was inaugurated in my area, it was built for the Paris 2012 Olympics that we didn't get, because we needed it regardless.

About the snow big contracts have been awarded to French companies, and others as backup (or the reverse) so there will be snow where needed for sure !
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:54 am

Quoting ZBBYLW (Reply 7):

The issues that have plagued Sochi at a price tag of a reported $50,000,000,000 (had to write all the zeros to see it) really made me appreciate how well the Vancouver Olympics went.

They've rebuilt an entire city, with new road and rail links, power stations, water treatment, everything has been rebuilt, I know it's a lot and I'm sure big chunks of cash ended up in people back pockets but you can't compare what Vancouver did to get ready for the games to what Sochi has done.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 13):

To many outside Russia, the way they're handling the stray dog issue is a bigger problem than the dogs themselves.

I don't see the problem with destroying stray dogs, it's better to remove them than let them hang around.
 
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:03 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 18):
I don't see the problem with destroying stray dogs, it's better to remove them than let them hang around.

It's cruel. Would you say the same about homeless people, too?
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:37 am

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 19):
Would you say the same about homeless people, too?

Dogs are dogs. People are people. Apples and oranges. What relevance does it have to the topic discussed?
 
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:38 am

The best thing about the Sochi games so far is this speech !!

UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon has condemned attacks on homosexuals as Russia prepares to host the Winter Olympics amid controversy over its law restricting gay rights activists.

Mr Ban made the comments in a speech to the International Olympic Committee (IOC) on the eve of Friday's opening ceremony in Sochi while protesters around the world targeted Olympic sponsors urging them to speak out against the Russian law.

The legislation, signed in July by President Vladimir Putin, outlaws pro-gay "propaganda" that could be accessible to minors, but critics say it deters virtually any public expression of support for gay rights.

"We must all raise our voices against attacks on lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender or intersex people," Mr Ban said after he was asked if he planned to speak to Mr Putin about concerns surrounding gay rights.

"We must oppose the arrests, imprisonments and discriminatory restrictions they face.

http://news.sky.com/story/1207434/so...-ki-moon-speaks-out-on-gay-attacks

---

Lots of athletes complaining that their accommodation is not ready and they have been asked to sleep on cruise ships until their rooms are ready. Alternatively they have been ripped off by local crooks who are charging over EUR200 a night for a 2 star hotel down the road. Lots of things not completed, they are even spraying the earth green to make it look like grass because it was not finished properly.
 
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:48 am

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 20):
Dogs are dogs. People are people. Apples and oranges. What relevance does it have to the topic discussed?

So, it's okay to be cruel to animals just because they are not people?
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:57 am

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 19):

It's cruel. Would you say the same about homeless people, too?

They are not being cruel they are collecting them and putting them down, they aren't torturing them. Happens in many other countries, I'm sure you have animal control where you live. If you've even been to Russia or Ukraine you'll see wild dogs everywhere, it's a problem. In Sochi they are addressing it. In Vancouver they rounded up and moved all the homeless people away from the central city.
 
tu204
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:07 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 10):
THAT is the problem
Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 13):
To many outside Russia, the way they're handling the stray dog issue is a bigger problem than the dogs themselves.

Well how would you suggest to fix the problem? And when was the last time you have been to your local humane society? What do you think they do with dogs that nobody wants to adopt? I know what they do in Ottawa, Canada...

Quoting axelesgg (Reply 11):
Is it any power cuts?

Nope. We had some in our neighbourhood where we live (which is pretty far from any venues). But we were told that it is when they were taking all the systems online they had some issues which they sorted out.

Quoting Mir (Reply 14):
The reason the Sochi games are costing so much isn't because they didn't have infrastructure in place, it's because of the rampant corruption that drives the cost of everything up. Sure, they didn't have infrastructure in place, but it shouldn't have cost this much to build what they did.

Are you kidding?
Unlike you, I have actually been here in 2004 and 2009. It was a complete dump. Sochi had absolutely NO venues - they were all built from scratch. Including the infrastructure.
Unlike Vancouver or London in Sochi everything had to be built and now it truly is a world class city and they have the oppertunity to become a decent winter and summer resort town.

When I got here two weeks ago, I completely understand why it cost around 50 billion. I don't know how they came up with the original number of 10 billion. Vancouver spent that much and pretty much all the venues were already there and so was the infrastructure.

It would have been cheaper to firebomb Sochi and rebuilt it from an empty field. It was a mess.


Regarding biased reporting: It truly is blown out of proportion. From my time here, I have seen only minor things that are not completed and most are off venues (like the walkway that goes over the avenue near where we live - yesterday they were finishing the tiles).
This kind of stuff.

What I am reading in the western press is as if nothing is completed and its an utter disaster.
With one picture of some work still being completed somewhere in Sochi and playing it out as if thats how the whole place looks.
Well, this summer when I was in Ottawa, Canada I had a bet with a friend (who also made some conclusions about Russia based on a few "well taken" shots that he saw in some magazine).
In this bet I said that I could make Ottawa look like a third world country. It wasn't that hard. Go to the right places and take the right pictures.
I won.
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:15 pm

Well, ready or not, competition has started. Quals for various events began a few hours ago. I know some people who were up streaming the event live. I am trying to work from home today and might setup my personal laptop on a table nearby to stream live events.
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OA260
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:21 pm

Russia is promoting Men to share the toilets    

https://twitter.com/IlyaYashin/status/430221450536943616/photo/1
 
rlwynn
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:28 pm

I do not get what the big deal is. When you choose to have the Olympics in such a backwards country none of this should be a suprise but expected. I have not seen anything for a while to say it would be any different than how it is turning out. Sure what the tv cameras will show will much different than the reality.
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:35 pm

Expect to have your phone and computers hacked.

All Visitors to Sochi Olympics Immediately Hacked
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/...ics-immediately-hacked_778718.html

Sochi visitors entering hacking 'minefield'
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-576...inefield-by-firing-up-electronics/

State Dept. warns Sochi visitors to have ‘no expectation of privacy’
http://www.jrn.com/kgun9/now-trendin...ectation-of-privacy-243753231.html

=
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:57 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 23):
They are not being cruel they are collecting them and putting them down, they aren't torturing them. Happens in many other countries, I'm sure you have animal control where you live.

I don't understand the outrage either. In Japan they have the disposal of stray dogs caught in the streets automated, they gas the dogs then immediately incinerate them. Packs of feral dogs are not something you want in a city.
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:09 pm

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 22):
So, it's okay to be cruel to animals just because they are not people?

Killing stray dogs to get rid of the problems they cause isn't any different than killing cows and pigs for food. I think non-vegan people who criticize killing stray dogs (in ways that involve minimum pain) are hypocrites, a life of a dog shouldn't be worth anything more than lives of cows, pigs etc just because they are supposedly cute.
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wingman
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:40 pm

Quoting tu204 (Reply 24):
In this bet I said that I could make Ottawa look like a third world country. It wasn't that hard. Go to the right places and take the right pictures.
I won.

You are right in this respect. Hell, you could walk around Detroit all day taking pictures and never bet in a million years you were in the First World. Same with a lot US cities.

I'll reserve judgement myself and see how it all turns out but I know one thing for certain, all this negative press in Europe and the US has zero to do with Russia or Russians. It has to do with the fact that these are Putin's Games, and the guy's a thug and general asshole. This week's Economist has a great cover shot that says everything there is to say about it. If Dictatoring and Douchbaggery were Olympic contests this guy would be dry humping the entire podium.
 
ImperialEagle
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:53 pm

Quoting wingman (Reply 31):
If Dictatoring and Douchbaggery were Olympic contests this guy would be dry humping the entire podium.

      

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 29):
Packs of feral dogs are not something you want in a city.

Especially two-legged ones.  
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 28):
Expect to have your phone and computers hacked.

Just one of the reasons I stayed away.
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Flaps
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:12 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 28):
State Dept. warns Sochi visitors to have ‘no expectation of privacy’
http://www.jrn.com/kgun9/now-trendin....html

Comical coming from the US State department. As if it is any different here......
 
 
hoons90
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:56 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 30):
Killing stray dogs to get rid of the problems they cause isn't any different than killing cows and pigs for food.

Yes, it is. Your latter example provides nourishment as a food source. Of course, in some parts of the world, dogs that are raised for that purpose can be a food source too.

I'm sure that as Russia continues to develop, there will be more awareness campaigns to spay/neuter pets and adopt from shelters.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 30):
I think non-vegan people who criticize killing stray dogs (in ways that involve minimum pain) are hypocrites, a life of a dog shouldn't be worth anything more than lives of cows, pigs etc just because they are supposedly cute.

But those dogs are dying in vain. That's the difference.
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lewis
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:24 pm

Quoting tu204 (Reply 24):
egarding biased reporting: It truly is blown out of proportion.

I can partly agree to this. In one of the photos attached to those articles above there is a journalist who is "shocked" he/she cannot flush the toilet paper down the bowl but has to use the bin? Oh my god the horror! I have seen this in so many countries before, some sewage systems in older cities are just not made to handle that. Why is it that weird? You are in another country, some things work differently, get used to it. Then you have the other journalist who went out to buy water and came back with two bottles that have the word GIN in huge letters on the label, only to later find out this is actually not water, but gin... I am seriously doubting the intelligence of the people who posted those pics and tweets.

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 22):
So, it's okay to be cruel to animals just because they are not people?

The animals are being collected and put down, which is something that happens to western countries like the US on a daily basis. For reference, 1 dog/cat is killed (or "put down" to make it sound all goody and humane) every 11 seconds in the US. Hilarious to see people from countries that systematically kill stray pets criticizing Russia for... killing stray pets! As for dying in vain, the chicken/egg industry is killing thousands of newborn roosters every single day because they are not useful for either eggs or their meat. You may have seen videos with scenes of little chicks being separated and then following different paths on the belts. Well, the roosters end up in a grinding machine that tears them into pieces, alive. Just for some perspective... I know dogs are cuter and all but all of a sudden everyone became an animal advocate?

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 28):
State Dept. warns Sochi visitors to have ‘no expectation of privacy’

Ha! Wasn't the US government that pretty much told every American that all their communications are being accessed by the said government and that they should expect no privacy on their phone calls, emails and electronic data in general? Again, pot, kettle...

[Edited 2014-02-06 14:28:27]

[Edited 2014-02-06 14:29:19]
 
tu204
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:56 pm

Quoting wingman (Reply 31):
I'll reserve judgement myself and see how it all turns out but I know one thing for certain, all this negative press in Europe and the US has zero to do with Russia or Russians. It has to do with the fact that these are Putin's Games, and the guy's a thug and general asshole. This week's Economist has a great cover shot that says everything there is to say about it. If Dictatoring and Douchbaggery were Olympic contests this guy would be dry humping the entire podium.

Kind of what I am talking about...
This is the elected head of state of a country, who unlike many other countries enjoys the approval of the majority of the population.
And no, this negative press IS directed against Russia and against Russians.
Putin just gets the brunt of it because since the start of his first presidency Russia has once again become a major power and it's president stands up for the interests of it's citizens.
If you don't believe me, spend less time making bs comments and see how the west was pleased with Russia during the 90's...

The best anti-western propaganda for Russians these days would be to just simply translate some articles into Russian and read them on TV. The greater half of it is bs and has nothing to do with reality...
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
tu204
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:22 pm

Would like to add a small comment towards the concerns about it not being cold enough:

Sochi is located on the coast where all the indoor venue are located (Hockey, Curling, Speed Skating, Figure Skating). This is called the "Coastal Cluster" - all venues are located walking distance away from each other.

All venues requiring snow are located in the mountains, which are a 1 hour train ride away in Krasnoya Polyana and Roza Khutor.
Just came from there a few hours ago, temperatures are below 0 and there is snow on the ground.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
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Aesma
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:29 pm

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 34):
But those dogs are dying in vain. That's the difference.

Weren't they living in vain, too ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Maverick623
Posts: 4726
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:13 am

RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:34 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 28):
Expect to have your phone and computers hacked.

...

Quoting Flaps (Reply 33):

Comical coming from the US State department. As if it is any different here......

Beat me to it.

Quoting tu204 (Reply 36):
Putin just gets the brunt of it because since the start of his first presidency Russia has once again become a major power

...

Quoting lewis (Reply 35):
some sewage systems in older cities are just not made to handle that.

And yet a "major power" with a sudden influx of 50 billion dollars can't even upgrade the sewage systems of a small city to be able to accept toilet paper.

Quoting tu204 (Reply 36):
it's president stands up for the interests of it's citizens.

Unless that citizen happens to be gay, or wants to actually flush TP down the hole.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
lewis
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:43 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 39):
And yet a "major power" with a sudden influx of 50 billion dollars can't even upgrade the sewage systems of a small city to be able to accept toilet paper.

We do the same in a lot of places (if not all) in Greece. Once you are used to doing things one way, why change it if it works for you and if the added value for such a big project is just not there? Is throwing the toilet paper in a bin that much harder and really even an issue? Maybe they had other priorities for those 50bn, you know, things that actually matter like transportation and surface infrastructure. Somehow offering the ability to flush toilet paper did not cross their minds. Big whoop.

Another example similar to what you are talking about. A lot of places in Europe have those awesome garbage bins on the street that store all trash underground until pick-up, to save space in big cities and not have garbage bags all over the sidewalk. New York is a very rich city yet at night it looks like a third world country with all the trash bags piling up on the sidewalk, attracting rodents and spewing foul smells all over the place. It would make sense for NY to find ways to deal with garbage disposal but they haven't, I guess the added value coming from such a big endeavor is just not there....
 
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Tugger
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:51 pm

Quoting lewis (Reply 40):
Is throwing the toilet paper in a bin that much harder and really even an issue?

Most people I think are disgusted at the thought of have stinky, poop smeared tissue from previous users sitting in a bucket near them, let alone having to put your own stinky, poop smeared tissues in there as well. The desire is to flush it all away and remove the stench and "stuff" from the room.

I have done it myself a couple time in the USA in locations where there are very limit systems to handle such things (mountain and desert camping usually). But usually where there is water to flush with, it isn't the case.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
OV735
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:17 am

Russia is just exotic and sometimes difficult to understand for those who come from European or American cultures. All these things - the brown water, the shoddy hotel rooms, "creatively" laid out toilets, the solution to the "dog problem"... That's all really just a part of everyday life in this country. And you can try and measure it by your own standards as much as you want, but in the end, it won't matter, because it's a different world with a different mentality.

Sochi is ready for the games by Russian standards. By Western standards, it would probably take a century or so.
 
lewis
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:21 am

Quoting tugger (Reply 41):
Most people I think are disgusted at the thought of have stinky, poop smeared tissue from previous users sitting in a bucket near them, let alone having to put your own stinky, poop smeared tissues in there as well. The desire is to flush it all away and remove the stench and "stuff" from the room.


Yet those people are perfectly fine with having stinky poop on their behinds, mostly just smearing the poop around their bums with toilet paper and then just pulling their underwear up. For some people that would be gross and inadequate and this is why it is the norm in some other countries to have a bidet. After all, if I had poop stains on my hands I would probably wash them (2-3 times) and not just wipe it off with paper, why is it not the same case for the bottom parts? See, it is all about how you are taught to do things, being in another country means dealing with different ways of doing things, and hopefully not making a storm in a teacup about every single thing that "is not like home".
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:23 am

Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
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Tugger
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:35 am

Quoting lewis (Reply 43):
Yet those people are perfectly fine with having stinky poop on their behinds, mostly just smearing the poop around their bums with toilet paper and then just pulling their underwear up. For some people that would be gross and inadequate and this is why it is the norm in some other countries to have a bidet. After all, if I had poop stains on my hands I would probably wash them (2-3 times) and not just wipe it off with paper, why is it not the same case for the bottom parts? See, it is all about how you are taught to do things, being in another country means dealing with different ways of doing things, and hopefully not making a storm in a teacup about every single thing that "is not like home".

Actually I have used bidets and I find them to be the ineffective method, but to each their own. I grew up with using toilet paper and have no problem "getting things clean" but I am sure some people might. I understand somewhat what you are saying but the buttocks quite nicely was evolved to keep things closed up back there and my daily shower keeps everything clean appropriately. I will also note that at my home we use "moist wipes" that do an excellent job. I also know that even where bidets are the norm, they are not always available so those same people will have the same issue.

Butt, to each their own.... (see what I did there?    )

Tugg

[Edited 2014-02-06 16:54:28]
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:41 am

Quoting OV735 (Reply 42):
Russia is just exotic and sometimes difficult to understand for those who come from European or American cultures. All these things - the brown water, the shoddy hotel rooms, "creatively" laid out toilets, the solution to the "dog problem"... That's all really just a part of everyday life in this country.

Brown water is exotic?
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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Maverick623
Posts: 4726
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:13 am

RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:45 am

Quoting OV735 (Reply 42):
Russia is just exotic and sometimes difficult to understand for those who come from European or American cultures.

There's nothing difficult to understand about an old city with old infrastructure in an old country that has been through more than its fair share of difficult times, especially recently.

What is difficult to understand is when they claim that city to be something it's not:

Quoting tu204 (Reply 24):
now it truly is a world class city

That's not "exotic". It's either ignorance, denial, propaganda, or some combination of the three.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 46):

Brown water is exotic?

From wiktionary.org:

Quote:
Adjective

exotic (comparative more exotic, superlative most exotic)

Foreign, especially in an exciting way.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:45 am

Quoting Flaps (Reply 33):
Comical coming from the US State department. As if it is any different here......
 

The US State department doesn't actively look at what you are doing to see if you are, say, criticizing the state.

Russia, apparently, has cameras in the bathrooms at the new hotels.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...-sochi-hotels-sying_n_4739400.html

Im not happy about the CIA and the State Department, and I'd be the last to defend them, but at least we don't have cameras in our hotel bathrooms.

Quoting lewis (Reply 35):
I can partly agree to this. In one of the photos attached to those articles above there is a journalist who is "shocked" he/she cannot flush the toilet paper down the bowl but has to use the bin? Oh my god the horror! I have seen this in so many countries before, some sewage systems in older cities are just not made to handle that.

It all just got built, so it's not an older system, is it?

This is a world event and it's supposed to have world-class facilities. Now, I have traveled throughout South America and only once, on a ship in the Galapagos, was I ever asked to throw toilet paper in a separate receptacle, which was emptied three times daily by the crew.

These are not world-class facilities.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
OV735
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Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2004 8:49 am

RE: Sochi Olympics: Is Sochi Ready?

Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:17 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 46):
Brown water is exotic?

I said Russia was exotic for someone from a Western country because of a million reasons, one of which is indeed the tap water that will take your appetite.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 47):
There's nothing difficult to understand about an old city with old infrastructure in an old country that has been through more than its fair share of difficult times, especially recently.

It's more the mindset of the country and its people that's difficult to understand. The poor infrastructure and rough times are all true, but the failed socio-economic experiment of 75 years that led to these conditions is still very much in honour in Russia - which is another thing that's difficult to wrap ones head around.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 47):
What is difficult to understand is when they claim that city to be something it's not:

Quoting tu204 (Reply 24):
now it truly is a world class city

That's not "exotic". It's either ignorance, denial, propaganda, or some combination of the three.

The term Potyomkin village originated from Russia for a reason.

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