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zippyjet
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Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:38 pm

For the past year, I've been using Mobil I full synthetic oil and have been very pleased. Even after six months of driving around 4000 to 6000 miles, after checking the oil it still looks clean. I can see the reading on my dipstick and using the synthetic oil, I've never (knock on wood) had to add/top off the oil. Usually I change my oil every three or four months. My mechanic works out of his home and does a great job and is fair in what he charges but, with this crazy winter there hasn't been the opportunity to change it. He works outside in his driveway. And, this product is always on sale somewhere. Plus I buy a better oil filter than what you'd get at a commercial oil change establishment.
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WarRI1
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:40 am

I use Mobil 1 in my truck and my wife' s auto. I have had them both for few years now, no burning of oil so far. My son and daughter both use the same in their vehicles which are newer than mine. My brother uses it also in his truck.
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TLG
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:17 am

I change oil myself, and I just started using synthetic. I buy a 5 quart jug of oil when I'm ready to do an oil change, and the synthetic costs about $5 more. I decided to try it. No opinions yet!
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:59 am

Quoting zippyjet (Thread starter):
Even after six months of driving around 4000 to 6000 miles, after checking the oil it still looks clean.

Depends on the type of usage. If you are driving an SUV with a lazy V-8 rarely reving more than 3 or 4K RPM, I don't see the point. If you have a high-revving engine, sure.

But the key is still to change oil regularly. The oil might still be good for a long time, but you've got to get rid of the microscopic shavings and debris that builds up in the oil. I remember one dumbass who put Mobil 1 when they advertised "good for 20,000 miles!", and thought he could keep the oil in his car that entire time. After 15,000 miles or so, his engine was a smoking, worn-out POS.
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WildcatYXU
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:03 am

Yes. In every car I've owned since 1996.
310, 319, 320, 321, 321N, 332, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 753, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, C402, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E45, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, MD82, Saab 340, YAK40
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:09 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):
But the key is still to change oil regularly

I change my oil every three thousand, even using Mobil 1. My son 4K, my brother 3k, my daughter uses the dealer recommendation. 3 GM, 1 Ford product.
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jetblueguy22
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:15 am

It came with my Corolla and boy I have to say I was surprised when I went in for the 5000 mile tune up. I figured I'd get the regular tire rotation/balance and an oil change. But the mechanic said the oil only had to be changed every 10,000 miles! I guess we will see when they change it, but boy that sounds like a long time without an oil change.
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Dreadnought
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:47 am

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 6):
It came with my Corolla and boy I have to say I was surprised when I went in for the 5000 mile tune up. I figured I'd get the regular tire rotation/balance and an oil change. But the mechanic said the oil only had to be changed every 10,000 miles! I guess we will see when they change it, but boy that sounds like a long time without an oil change.

Don't trust that. Some manufacturers really push out maintenance intervals in order to lower "official" maintenance costs for fleet purposes etc. 5K or 6K should be considered a maximum oil change interval, as low as 3K for heavy duty.
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airnorth
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:07 am

Yes, I've been using it for years, new car, old worn out truck, diesel truck, family van, skid steer, backhoe, even my boat motors.
Years back I did an un scientific pour test at sub -40 weather. I left 3 liters of oil outside, all 10w30, one was conventional, one was semi synthetic, and one was synthetic oil. After an overnight cold soak, I unscrewed the caps, and simply tipped them on their sides and started a stop watch. The conventional oil never did pour out at all, the semi synthetic took over 3 mins to get to the end of the spout, the synthetic poured like water. I was sold.
I extended the change intervals on all of my old technology vehicles from 3000 kms to 5000 kms, no problem. Also I did not experience any increase in consumption or leaks either, I think its a myth that that will occur. They cool thing is, my newer Toyota has an 8000 km oil change interval, and you guessed it, factory filled with 0W20 synthetic, great stuff! If you think its too expensive, just wait until its on sale, I am not brand loyal, I think it all comes out of the same vat, and they just throw a different label on the jugs, so whatever is on sale, and whenever its on sale, I make sure I have enough for a couple of changes o hand.
 
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mad99
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:25 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):
After 15,000 miles or so, his engine was a smoking, worn-out POS.
Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 5):
I change my oil every three thousand, even using Mobil 1. My son 4K, my brother 3k
Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 6):
10,000 miles!
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 7):
5K or 6K should be considered a maximum oil change interval,

Wow that's not a lot of miles.

Mine gets changed every 24 months or 15k miles or if the light says then before
 
PhilBy
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:07 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):
After 15,000 miles or so, his engine was a smoking, worn-out POS.

There must be something wrong with that engine. My 206 has an oil change every 15000 miles with whatever the garage has on hand (most likely synthetic) and has passed 250k miles without problem. It has to said though that, as a diesel, the engine rarely exceeds 2000rpm (I sometimes take it up to 2500 going up mountains).

When I last bought oil, most that was available was synthetic. Genuine mineral oil was more expensive.
 
JJJ
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:59 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 7):
Don't trust that. Some manufacturers really push out maintenance intervals in order to lower "official" maintenance costs for fleet purposes etc. 5K or 6K should be considered a maximum oil change interval, as low as 3K for heavy duty.

My daily driver is a diesel Ford Mondeo, leased through a major company.

Oil changes are scheduled every 20.000kms, as warned by both a dashboard light and the leasing company. More often than not they're actually 21 to 22K.

5K miles seems a ridiculously low life cycle.

[Edited 2014-03-05 01:36:30]
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:27 am

Quoting mad99 (Reply 9):
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):
After 15,000 miles or so, his engine was a smoking, worn-out POS.
Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 5):
I change my oil every three thousand, even using Mobil 1. My son 4K, my brother 3k
Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 6):
10,000 miles!
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 7):
5K or 6K should be considered a maximum oil change interval,

Wow that's not a lot of miles.

Mine gets changed every 24 months or 15k miles or if the light says then before

Until my fellow Europeans started posting I thought I was on a different planet. I can safely say that despite running a small fleet of 6 vehicles I haven't purchased a single litre of engine oil in the past 10 years. Not one vehicle (ranging from a petrol Ford Fiesta to a diesel Transit pickup) has had a low oil level in that time and none has had an oil change other than at a scheduled 12 month service (sometimes nearer 2 years for the low mileage ones)
 
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mad99
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:42 am

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 12):
litre of engine oil in the past 10 years

i have an 10 year old 1,6l petrol astra that the wife drives once a month about 2 miles. She had to have the mot done and normally here father checks the car b4 but this time i had to and by chance i checked the oil - dry so i bought 1l and now the end of the stick shows some oil. So i have bought 1l of oil over the last 10 years!

i drive a bmw and if you drive it normally the service light comes on once every two years. If you drive it like you stole it then sooner or if you do loads of miles.
 
TLG
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:21 pm

Quoting airnorth (Reply 8):
I think it all comes out of the same vat, and they just throw a different label on the jugs

This is at least partially true. Generic brands, such as Walmart or parts store branded oil, come from the major refiners such as Shell or Mobil. It depends at least somewhat on geographical location.
 
smittyone
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:00 pm

My Hondas have an oil life monitoring system, so I change using regular oil at those intervals (somewhere between 6,000 - 10,000 miles).

I did a little experimentation in the past with synthetics and longer intervals but the math never added up for me. I ran Amsoil for a year of relatively tough duty (per their recommendations) and noticed a lot of dark buildup on the dipstick and valve train area, even though oil analysis results came back "good". Haven't had that problem since going back to regular. I was also not impressed with their ATF in my Honda...changed the shift quality quite a bit.

To be fair to Amsoil, I had more success with their stuff in a Chevrolet in the past, so the issues were particular to Honda and/or their 0W-20 product.

Worth also noting that modern 'conventional' oils are a different cat altogether from the 'conventional' oils of say 10 or 20 years ago. The performance specifications just keep going up. As does the price  

If I were to use synthetic now it would be Mobil1 for the published intervals just for the 'peace of mind' factor...but on the other hand it doesn't seem to make sense when you consider that the vast majority of cars go to the bone yard for reasons other than engine wear. Money spent on uber quality oil would be better spent on headlight bulbs, wiper blades and tires. And gas!

[Edited 2014-03-05 05:03:53]
 
smittyone
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:06 pm

Quoting airnorth (Reply 8):
Years back I did an un scientific pour test at sub -40 weather.

Extreme cold like that is one application where synthetics make a lot of sense!

Quoting airnorth (Reply 8):
I am not brand loyal, I think it all comes out of the same vat, and they just throw a different label on the jugs, so whatever is on sale, and whenever its on sale, I make sure I have enough for a couple of changes o hand.

Truth. Every oil - regular or synthetic - will list what PERFORMANCE specifications that it claims to meet...whether that is an API spec or manufacturer-specific one (many of which require synthetics now). The motor oil companies have zero incentive to make their oils any better than the listed spec, though they pay a ton in advertising to convince us that they do.

When you buy a brand of an oil that meets your required spec, the main concern should be your confidence in that company's ability to consistently produce oil that meets or exceeds the spec. There have been 'sting' operations that have found some off-brand oils that did not!

[Edited 2014-03-05 05:24:54]
 
cptkrell
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:26 pm

I've used Mobil 1 religiously in every road vehicle I've owned since the early/mid 1990s and have never had a problem. Like some above have mentioned, good quality filters are important too (it's still hard for me to believe that as late as 1955, oil filters were a factory option on the Chevrolet!). The full synthetics' properties to flow and lubricate in all temperature conditions (that I'm going to encounter, anyway) without breaking down is very important, especially with newer generation close-tolerance machinery. Some manufacturers even require Mobil 1 (or equivalents) to maintain warranty.

I like the newer "change oil" warning systems. The computer on my Silverado calculates mileage, engine hours, and service duty (in what gear, 2 WD or 4WD usage time, load conditions (towing, etc.) to arrive at the change oil time, but I never let it go over 6,000 for piece of mind. I can press a button for engine hours display, too.

Unlike some, I do like to stick with a single brand (in my preference, Mobil 1)...why change something that already works well?
all best; jack
 
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:01 pm

If you are using synthetic oil, I think still changing it every 3K is overkill.

I have been using synthetic oil in our cars since the early 90's. I change oil & filter every 6K. All the cars have driven over 200K with no problems at all. At that mileage there isn't even any gunk in the oil pan. I used to use Mobil1, but in this car I used Castrol Syntec.

Years ago Mobil 1 did a test on NYC taxicabs. They used regular oil in part of the fleet and Mobil 1 in the other. After the cars were driven 200K they disassembled some of the engines to check for wear. The cars that used Mobil 1 had very, very little wear whereas the cars that used conventional oil shown lots of wear.

No matter how well you refine conventional oil, it will still have microscopic grit in it. Synthetic oil does not when new. And synthetic oil can reach higher temps than conventional oil without foaming.


Quoting smittyone (Reply 16):
Truth. Every oil - regular or synthetic - will list what PERFORMANCE specifications that it claims to meet...whether that is an API spec or manufacturer-specific one (many of which require synthetics now). The motor oil companies have zero incentive to make their oils any better than the listed spec, though they pay a ton in advertising to convince us that they do.

Read the oil cans again. The statement stated that "This oil meets or exceeds the standards of API Spec X".

You get what you pay for.

I remember when synthetic oil first came out in the mid 70's with an oil called Olmo. They recommended you change it once every 15K and the filter every 30K or something like that. I'd have a very hard time doing that.
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ANITIX87
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:08 pm

My car (Mazdaspeed3: 2.3L Turbo 4-cylinder gasoline engine) gets Shell Rotella T6 full synthetic heavy-duty diesel oil (yes, diesel in a petrol car) because Used Oil Analysis by hundreds of other owners has proved that this oil is best. I change it at 5,000 mile intervals, but many owners go every 3,000.

OEM recommendation is 5W-30, but my motor shears the crap out of oil, so I use 5W-40 in summer (and switch back to the recommended 5W-30 in winter).

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Bongodog1964
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:09 pm

Quoting smittyone (Reply 16):
The motor oil companies have zero incentive to make their oils any better than the listed spec, though they pay a ton in advertising to convince us that they do.

Thats the difference between the USA and the UK, whilst we used to see loads of advertising for motor oil back in the 1980's and before its more or less non existent now. The big brands at the time here such as Castrol, Duckhams, and Shell used to have TV adverts, newspaper ads and big signs up at filling stations, now you see nothing, its so low key I can't recall even seeing any motor oil on sale at fuel stations for years. I'll have to have a look in future.
 
na
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:47 pm

I use synthetic oil for a long time, currently a long-life product which should be fine for 40.000 kms.

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 20):
Thats the difference between the USA and the UK, whilst we used to see loads of advertising for motor oil back in the 1980's and before its more or less non existent now.

Now that you are saying it, thats true here in Germany as well.
 
smittyone
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:56 pm

Quoting type-rated (Reply 18):
Read the oil cans again. The statement stated that "This oil meets or exceeds the standards of API Spec X".

Roger, which conflicts not at all with what I said.

All you are GUARANTEED (as far as the API can guarantee anything) is that the oil will perform to some minimum standard on the API tests. All the rest of it, the 'exceed' part is in the realm of advertising and 'feeling' like you're doing something better for your engine.

I have no problems with Synthetic Oil. I think it would be better if all manufacturers specified it, along with appropriate intervals that they back with a warrantee, commensurate with its capabilities. But as it stands you're paying substantially more for a product that delivers the same basic result at the intervals you are running.

Because:

Quoting type-rated (Reply 18):
I have been using synthetic oil in our cars since the early 90's. I change oil & filter every 6K. All the cars have driven over 200K with no problems at all. At that mileage there isn't even any gunk in the oil pan. I used to use Mobil1, but in this car I used Castrol Syntec.

I'm well on my way to achieving the same result running 'conventional' 5W-20 for the same intervals or LONGER with the oil life monitoring.

Quoting type-rated (Reply 18):
You get what you pay for.

We can both probably list plenty of cases where this is not at all true for consumer products.

Quoting type-rated (Reply 18):

Years ago Mobil 1 did a test on NYC taxicabs. They used regular oil in part of the fleet and Mobil 1 in the other. After the cars were driven 200K they disassembled some of the engines to check for wear. The cars that used Mobil 1 had very, very little wear whereas the cars that used conventional oil shown lots of wear.

Years ago being the key words.

Quoting type-rated (Reply 18):
No matter how well you refine conventional oil, it will still have microscopic grit in it. Synthetic oil does not when new. And synthetic oil can reach higher temps than conventional oil without foaming.

Neither of which substantially impact engine life for the vast majority of vehicle applications.
 
cptkrell
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:19 pm

Quoting type-rated (Reply 18):
No matter how well you refine conventional oil, it will still have microscopic grit in it. Synthetic oil does not when new.

Without getting anal-retentive (I hope), the real advantage of pure synthetics is in chemistry; designing molecules that are resistant to shape and size change over wide temperature ranges is the key. Conventional oil molecules change shape, size, break down and sometimes evaporate over temperature range "soaking". Plus most conventionals have paraffin (let's call it wax) and a bunch of other stuff that encourages various derogatory build ups within the engine.

Perhaps the most important factor is that most engine wear is created during start up, not regular (or even high-RPM cycles). Uniform molecules pretty much guarantee reliable lubrication during all RPM cycles irrespective of temperature range.

Is the price worth it? Each individual must make their own decision. Personally I think it is. I originally thought I was going to broom my '05 truck for a new one, but after analyzing requirements, I kept the old guy and simply bought a new second truck. I'm glad I went to the extra expense to keep the old guy (and also newer guy) top-shelf maintenance wise particularly including lubricants and filters.
all best; jack
 
smittyone
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:54 pm

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 23):

Good for you for keeping your truck, but the truth of the matter is that in 2014 engine wear is effectively a non-issue if you use oils that meet he spec and change it appropriately.

Sure, your truck's engine will eventually wear out if you put it on a stand and run it indefinitely, but there's no reason to believe that whatever additional "wear life" that you're buying won't be spent in the junkyard with the rest of the truck that will be discarded for some reason unrelated to the wear surfaces inside the powerplant.

That's my two cents; unfortunately there's precious little empirical data on automotive longevity and oils. I do know that I have never met anyone who maintained their vehicle per the book and just simply wore it out. At least not since 1990...engine defects/sludge monsters being a seperate issue of course.
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:26 am

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 17):
The computer on my Silverado calculates mileage, engine hours, and service duty (in what gear, 2 WD or 4WD usage time, load conditions (towing, etc.) to arrive at the change oil time, but I never let it go over 6,000 for piece of mind. I can press a button for engine hours display, too.

I knew there was something about you. I now know, a Chevy man. A US badged vehicle, union made. Damn!!! I like it.   
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WarRI1
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:30 am

Quoting mad99 (Reply 9):
Wow that's not a lot of miles.

The guys where my brother and I have our oil changed have told us, they save our Mobil1 and use it in their vehicles. I guess they think there is more life in it than I thought.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
cptkrell
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:57 pm

Quoting smittyone (Reply 24):

Good for you for keeping your truck, but the truth of the matter is that in 2014 engine wear is effectively a non-issue if you use oils that meet he spec and change it appropriately.

Like I said, it's up to each to make up their own mind. If I like stuff, I tend to keep it a long time. Synthetics give me a peace of mind.

Quoting smittyone (Reply 24):
Sure, your truck's engine will eventually wear out if you put it on a stand and run it indefinitely,

Repeating, initial start up produces most engine wear, especially in extremely cold weather where conventional oils do not flow well. A constant engine run on a dyno will produce less metal-to-metal contact wear than normal start/go/stop every day cycles over a given amount of engine running hours.

Quoting smittyone (Reply 24):

That's my two cents; unfortunately there's precious little empirical data on automotive longevity and oils.

I would argue that there is empirical data supporting the increased longevity of synthetics. Along with stability over various operating cycles, longer life without breakdown is the very reason for synthetics.

Anecdotally, several years ago I sold a very high-mileage Chevy S-10 and got quite a few hundred dollars over Blue Book for it by producing service records showing the little truck had been regularly maintained with Mobil 1. I'm entirely sure that the extra dollars didn't pay for all the extra cost of synthetics, but it helped, and the truck sold within 48 hours without bickering.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 25):
I knew there was something about you. I now know, a Chevy man. A US badged vehicle, union made. Damn!!! I like it.

Well, at the GM Tech Center in Michigan I had my (un)fair number of disagreements with the UAW. However, I must say that these folks building them have produced damn good products for me. The little S-10 I mentioned above was built in Louisiana, my two Silverados are out of Ft. Wayne, IN assembly and wife's 300C from Canada (CAW). All three of these plants sure know how to screw them together the right way.
all best; jack
 
Okie
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:38 pm

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 17):
The computer on my Silverado calculates mileage, engine hours, and service duty (in what gear, 2 WD or 4WD usage time, load conditions (towing, etc.) to arrive at the change oil time, but I never let it go over 6,000 for piece of mind. I can press a button for engine hours display, too.

I go by what the computer tells me. As indicated it takes into account idle time and highway and conditions. I have seen my Chevrolet trucks over the years vary between 5,000 miles and 7,300 miles. When we have a cold winter like this year the truck gets lots of idle time for a place to warm up when there are single digit temps.
I normally sell the trucks every two years or so with 160k+ miles and have never had a failure, use conventional oils with correct API rating.

Do not get me going on the GM Dexos marketing ploy.

Now if you have ever had the burning question how far will a vehicle go with zero maintenance.
I dated a girl years ago that had a Z-28, it was bought new, she called one evening because her car would not start.
When I arrived she was sitting in the car and I ask her to pop the hood so I could see if there was something minor.
She allowed that she did not know where the hood release was and had never had raised the hood.
The engine was locked up with zero oil on the stick. 65K miles on the Odometer.

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smittyone
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:45 pm

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 27):
Like I said, it's up to each to make up their own mind. If I like stuff, I tend to keep it a long time. Synthetics give me a peace of mind.

And sometimes I wear socks with sandals, no need to explain it. I just think that your 'peace of mind' and the increased resale value of your S-10 due to the buyer's faith in M1 is thanks much more to marketing than to engineering.

But I'm just a dude on the internet and I don't have to buy you a new engine if I'm wrong. If you like M1 go for it.

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 27):
Repeating, initial start up produces most engine wear, especially in extremely cold weather where conventional oils do not flow well. A constant engine run on a dyno will produce less metal-to-metal contact wear than normal start/go/stop every day cycles over a given amount of engine running hours.

Well, sure - but my point was that even so the only way your average truck owner was going to 'wear out' their engine was to put it on a dyno and forget about it until it finally times out. In the real world they're likely never going to enter the region of 'additional engine life' that the superior performance of synthetics may provide. Cold starts or not.
 
cptkrell
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:46 pm

Quoting okie (Reply 28):
Do not get me going on the GM Dexos marketing ploy.

Ahhh, yes. More than likely just a recent extension of the time-honored advertising/marketing standard "if you can't baffle 'em with bullshit, then dazzle 'em with brilliance". Of course, each manufacturer will want to get their fingers in the frosting on the money cake, so to speak. However, it doesn't alter the fact that synthetics are far superior to Dinosaur Dung, whether ones feels they need it or not.

And, it doesn't alter the fact that some manufacturers actually DO have some of their own internal specs. One should read the fine print on the fluid containers (as mentioned in other's comments before), synthetic or not. Lucky me, both of my tractors have power steering and I keep some fluid on hand in the shop. A friend in his Honda Pilot was low and asked to borrow some. I told him to read the container, a major brand. Paraphrasing, the label said "For use in most automotive applications"... (then the several specs), then in upper case verbage "NOT FOR USE IN HONDA VEHICLES".

Quoting okie (Reply 28):
Now if you have ever had the burning question how far will a vehicle go with zero maintenance.
I dated a girl years ago that had a Z-28, it was bought new, she called one evening because her car would not start.
When I arrived she was sitting in the car and I ask her to pop the hood so I could see if there was something minor.
She allowed that she did not know where the hood release was and had never had raised the hood.
The engine was locked up with zero oil on the stick. 65K miles on the Odometer.

Okie, this is incredibly the "same story" (right down to it being a Z-28) I experienced with an old friend. When we removed the intake manifold, we couldn't even see the lifters...the block valley looked as though someone had poured a gallon can of black epoxy into the engine and let it set-up. This Camaro went a bit over 70,000 miles before going tango-uniform, though.

Quoting smittyone (Reply 29):

And sometimes I wear socks with sandals, no need to explain it. I just think that your 'peace of mind' and the increased resale value of your S-10 due to the buyer's faith in M1 is thanks much more to marketing than to engineering.

Well, it's really valid, proven engineering chemistry, but I'm not going to go further on. However, you could if you wish,
check out some authoritative, non product-sponsored sites regarding the operational benefits of synthetics.

Quoting smittyone (Reply 29):
In the real world they're likely never going to enter the region of 'additional engine life' that the superior performance of synthetics may provide. Cold starts or not.

In the real world, a used 150,000 mile ride can be off-loaded to another who might want another 100,000 or so miles out of it. Pretty common down here in the sticks.
all best; jack
 
smittyone
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:23 pm

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 30):
Well, it's really valid, proven engineering chemistry, but I'm not going to go further on. However, you could if you wish,
check out some authoritative, non product-sponsored sites regarding the operational benefits of synthetics.

Trust me Jack, I've read all about synthetics...I've studied the charts, I've done the oil analysis, I get it. The 'engineering' I'm talking about here is not the physical properties of the fluids but the application of a particular material to a situation as part of a maintenance regime to achieve a desired result. This is where the case for synthetics falls apart, for most applications in the US at least, in my opinion.

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 30):
In the real world, a used 150,000 mile ride can be off-loaded to another who might want another 100,000 or so miles out of it. Pretty common down here in the sticks.

Absolutely. And I contend that if you are talking about regular driving and the appropriate manufacturer's interval (ie the fantastic oil life monitors provided by GM, Honda, others? that we've already talked about), today's engines running API certified multigrade oils are going to get you there no problem. They are out there doing this right now and the engines and oils keep getting better. Can anyone show this assertion to be wrong since about 1990?

Motor oil is like religion, and I admit I'm as guilty as anyone else of championing my particular denomination. But until someone can show me fleet data to the contrary I say engine wear in 2014 is a non-problem whose existence matters only to oil marketers.
 
A346Dude
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:58 pm

Synthetic 0W-20 for me. Makes me cringe a little less when it's time to start the truck in -20C temps.
You know the gear is up and locked when it takes full throttle to taxi to the terminal.
 
nickh
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:47 pm

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 30):
then in upper case verbage "NOT FOR USE IN HONDA VEHICLES".

Infiniti manuals say the same thing - however I spoke with a friend in service at SW Infiniti here in Houston about using synthetics in my Infiniti Q45s and he said that "officially, I won't recommend it because it does not conform to factory specs." Unofficially, he uses the Royal Purple synthetic in his G37S, so go figure.

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 30):
The engine was locked up with zero oil on the stick. 65K miles on the Odometer.

Back in the late 1980s when my younger brother graduated from high school, I gave him my old Honda Accord (72K miles) as a graduation present - within 12-months, he managed to destroy the engine by not checking the oil and then ultimately, the timing belt snapped while he was doing about 70-mph on the freeway, wreaking all manor of havoc on the motor.

Sigh.. And now my brother is a senior software architect at Apple Computer in Cupertino, and drives a BMW M5, V10. Feel so sorry for that car!

-Nick
"We all have wings, but some of us don't know why..."
 
cptkrell
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:58 pm

Quoting smittyone (Reply 31):
Trust me Jack, I've read all about synthetics...I've studied the charts, I've done the oil analysis, I get it. The 'engineering' I'm talking about here is not the physical properties of the fluids but the application of a particular material to a situation as part of a maintenance regime to achieve a desired result. This is where the case for synthetics falls apart, for most applications in the US at least, in my opinion.

Hmmm....."the application of a particular material to a situation as part of a maintenance regime to achieve a desired result". With all respect, Smitty, are you an attorney? Sounds like 'lawyer-speak' to me conveniently avoiding the thrust of my statement(s) that synthetic engine oils are superior to conventional oils in all respects (except in cost, of course) and if one want to use them, it's one's choice.

I use them (except in my old Ford farm tractor) and you don't feel it's necessary. OK; I get that, too. No argument. I just say those products are better and you say they aren't necessary. I choose to use them (because they are better) and recommend them. You don't feel as such. No problem.
all best; jack
 
aerobalance
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:38 pm

Nothing but M1

The twin-turbo, quad cam V-8 gets 0W-40
The high revving 4 cyl gets 0W-20
The quad cam V-8 in the truck gets 5W-30

10,000 mile oil change intervals for all.
"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
 
smittyone
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:31 am

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 34):
Hmmm....."the application of a particular material to a situation as part of a maintenance regime to achieve a desired result". With all respect, Smitty, are you an attorney? Sounds like 'lawyer-speak' to me conveniently avoiding the thrust of my statement(s) that synthetic engine oils are superior to conventional oils in all respects (except in cost, of course) and if one want to use them, it's one's choice.

I'm not avoiding anything.

Of course it is your choice to run Mobil1 for 6,000 miles in a Chevy Truck. You could run it for 600 miles if you like.

If it makes you feel better to do something that is technically unnecessary in order to obtain some potential benefit that you can't verify or measure, go for it.

But just recognize that it's the same kind of thinking that has kept the dysfunctional '3,000 mile oil change' alive and well here in the US for so long. What a waste that has been! With synthetics in most cases the industry has just found a new way to part suckers from their money.
 
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zippyjet
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:38 am

Quoting smittyone (Reply 36):

But synthetic seems to do a better job than the regular stuff. Of course the American way is tell them anything and they will follow. You keep telling it people will believe and follow.
I'm Zippyjet & I approve this message!
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:52 am

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 27):
Well, at the GM Tech Center in Michigan I had my (un)fair number of disagreements with the UAW. However, I must say that these folks building them have produced damn good products for me. The little S-10 I mentioned above was built in Louisiana, my two Silverados are out of Ft. Wayne, IN assembly and wife's 300C from Canada (CAW). All three of these plants sure know how to screw them together the right way.

I will not judge that, but you have my admiration for not letting that deter you from a good product. I have driven Ford and GM most of my adult life, cars and trucks, US and Canada. A good product, never a major problem in over 50 years. I have driven them on average for 10 years each. Many a mile driven on my job, I was paid to use my own vehicles for over 36 years.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:56 am

Quoting smittyone (Reply 36):
But just recognize that it's the same kind of thinking that has kept the dysfunctional '3,000 mile oil change' alive and well here in the US for so long. What a waste that has been! With synthetics in most cases the industry has just found a new way to part suckers from their money.

Not so sure. I have a 1998 Lincoln Navigator with 150,000 miles on it. The previous owner was fastidious - Oil and filter changed every 4000 miles, and all other fluids (brakes, coolant, transmission, diff, steering) were flushed and replaced every year. I have maintained the same schedule. As a result, every time a (different) mechanic looks at the car or the fluids that come out of it tells me he is shocked at how clean everything is - the car is genuinely like new in every way, although you can see a little bit of wear on the seat leather and the paint is not as glossy as it once was. The only things that have ever needed repair are the air bags for the rear suspension and the driver's side window switches which due to poor design, anytime it rains and you have the window cracked open, water falls right into the switches. Apart from those glitches, the car is like brand new - and much of that is due to not leaving old fluids in it.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
T prop
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:04 am

I use synthetic just so I can go longer on drain intervals. I have a commuter that I bought new in 2004. It has a 2.0 liter engine and it gets its oil changed at 10k mile intervals, it could go longer based on the TBN numbers in the old oil, but its about a pint low at 10k so rather than add it gets changed. I have no brand preference, whatever is on sale is ok. I've had used oil analysis on Mobil 1, penzoil platinum, valvoline synthetic and Napa synthetic and they all come out of the engine with good numbers. Oil filter is either a motorcraft or napa gold, whichever is most convenient to purchase at the time. The car has 250k miles on it now and the only unscheduled maintenance item was a $25 cam sensor. Engine performance has not changed in the miles driven, the car still get the same 33 mpg average that it has gotten since I started tracking it the first year.
 
PhilBy
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:26 am

Quoting T prop (Reply 40):
the car still get the same 33 mpg average

I have to hope that you see a lot of traffic jams. My 1990 525 averaged 34mpg so I got something efficient when I changed.
 
smittyone
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:52 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 39):
Not so sure. I have a 1998 Lincoln Navigator with 150,000 miles on it. The previous owner was fastidious - Oil and filter changed every 4000 miles, and all other fluids (brakes, coolant, transmission, diff, steering) were flushed and replaced every year. I have maintained the same schedule. As a result, every time a (different) mechanic looks at the car or the fluids that come out of it tells me he is shocked at how clean everything is - the car is genuinely like new in every way, although you can see a little bit of wear on the seat leather and the paint is not as glossy as it once was. The only things that have ever needed repair are the air bags for the rear suspension and the driver's side window switches which due to poor design, anytime it rains and you have the window cracked open, water falls right into the switches. Apart from those glitches, the car is like brand new - and much of that is due to not leaving old fluids in it.

If your goal is to impress your auto mechanic with the purity of your automotive fluids, then this is definitely the way to do it! On the other hand if you are looking to maintain safe, reliable transportation at minimum life cycle cost I'd say there are better strategies.

And logically speaking, this anecdote really means nothing. You're presupposing a cause and effect relationship between the vehicle's current condition and the 'extra' maintenance, as evidence in support of doing a whole bunch of extra maintenance. That's kind of a self-licking ice cream cone, isn't it? How do you know what condition it would be in without the extra maintenance?

I've read that the median age of cars on the road in the US is something like 9 years, and they sell a ton of brand new ones every year so there are a lot of older ones too...what percentage do you figure even get the oil changed on time? I say there are plenty of regularly maintained and reasonably treated vehicles the same age/mileage as your Lincoln doing the King's business out there right now, without all the waste of pouring out the fluids every year. The ones that don't make it were either wrecked, grossly neglected/beaten (giving the old family car to the kids can be a death sentence!), or people just got tired of them and didn't want to fix the stuff that just goes bad after all those years (AC, electric motors, shocks/struts etc.). And then there is rust.

My car is over 8 years old and has ~105K miles and if I washed it and vacuumed the inside carefully a mechanic would similarly mistake it for a two year old car. The oil is light brown when the light comes on to change it, the original coolant is clean, the ATF is pink, brake fluid looks good etc. (all of which at best indirectly indicate mechanical condition of course) from following Honda's published maintenance schedule. My goal is to get 15+ years / 200,000+ miles out of it, at which point I'll probably want to get something more modern/safe/efficient.

Who here thinks that I won't? What is that belief based on? I still have not yet heard one story from someone who has worn out a vehicle (prematurely or otherwise) by following the schedule in the modern era. Maybe those folks are too busy to hang out on A.net.

For what it's worth I'm just now ready for its first set of spark plugs...under the 'conventional wisdom' of 1984 I would have replaced them at least twice already. For what?
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:53 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):
After 15,000 miles or so, his engine was a smoking, worn-out POS.

That wouldn't be an oil issue.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 5):
I change my oil every three thousand, even using Mobil 1.
Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 26):
The guys where my brother and I have our oil changed have told us, they save our Mobil1 and use it in their vehicles. I guess they think there is more life in it than I thought.

at least 10k left in it, but it's your dollar, you're most likey spending more on new oil, filters and changes than any additional maintenance your vehicle would have needed.

My wifes VW went in for it's first service recently 30k km on the clock, 24 months and 2 winters, the oil came out looking almost new, very little discolouration at all.

My MINI CM had it's first change last at 22k km, but I thrash the nuts off that car which resulted in a shortened service schedule, yet again the oil was still clean and clear.

Modern engines using modern synthetic oils don't need changing like a lot of you oil gents think they do, all you're doing is making money for the oil companies and the mechanics and they are laughing all they way to the bank over your insecurities.

The last car I owned where I changed the oil every 6k KM was a 1981 Mini 1000, the A series engine sits on top of the gearbox in a Mini and shares the same oil, so regular changes are a fact of life, which should be expected in a vehicle designed in the 1950's using an engine designed in the late 1940's.
 
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GSPFlyer
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:33 pm

I have a 1999 Grand Cherokee. All I use is Valvoline conventional oil at 4,000 mile intervals.
 
tommy1808
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:46 pm

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 12):
Until my fellow Europeans started posting I thought I was on a different planet

I had the same feeling...

My old VW Polo 1991 got an oil change every 15.000-25.000km (the latter while a student, so earlier in its life) and lived 299.672km before i replaced it (Abwrackprämie) in 2009 with a still perfectly performing, fuel efficient engine (4.7L/100km, 50 mpg, nope, not a Diesel). My new Fiat Grande Punto has its programmed oil change every 30kkm

Never even considered conventional oil and ran it on 5W-30/5W-40 only.

best regards
Thomas

[Edited 2014-03-07 07:47:15]
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
N1120A
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:01 pm

It really depends on the car. If your car calls for synthetic, then you use synthetic. If you don't need synthetic, then buy mineral oil or a blend - especially for higher mileage cars.

My current and previous 2 cars have been 2 Mini Cooper S's and a BMW M3. So, of course, I use synthetic. What I don't use, however, is Mobil 1 - unless I'm somehow running a touch low and want something quickly. I use the BMW branded stuff, which is produced by Castrol, but is actually cheaper when you buy it from the dealer and by the case.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
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WildcatYXU
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:13 pm

Quoting PhilBy (Reply 41):
I have to hope that you see a lot of traffic jams. My 1990 525 averaged 34mpg so I got something efficient when I changed.

You do realize that his and your mpg aren't the same, do you?
310, 319, 320, 321, 321N, 332, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 753, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, C402, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E45, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, MD82, Saab 340, YAK40
 
N1120A
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:28 pm

Quoting PhilBy (Reply 41):
I have to hope that you see a lot of traffic jams. My 1990 525 averaged 34mpg so I got something efficient when I changed.

Your gallons are bigger.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Rara
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RE: Do You Use Synthetic Oil For Your Car?

Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:04 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 45):
fuel efficient engine (4.7L/100km, 50 mpg, nope, not a Diesel)

Hmm. My 1996 Polo uses more than 8L/100km. Granted it's an automatic, but I still wonder why it's so bloody much for a small car.
Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.

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