Stealthz
Topic Author
Posts: 5555
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:43 am

OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:47 pm

Maybe the judges and magistrates should be in jail... or more!

This scumbag came to our country as a refugee .. preyed on children, convicted and sentenced to "community service" then arrested for attempting to kidnap a 4 y/o girl.. the magistrate dropped the charges
.."In February, Jaffari had a child-stealing charge dropped against him in the Geelong Magistrates Court after the magistrate said if he was hearing the matter, he would have reasonable doubt about his guilt, citing “cultural differences” as one mitigating factor
Sorry folks if your cultural differences make it Ok to prey on children you are not welcome in this country and you can go back to the hell hole that bred you.. and take some magistrates and judges with you!!

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...v=a980b92bfd9adb0ec880c061640609f5
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12620
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:22 pm

This is the sort of crap that happens with unchecked immigration, especially when allowing human garbage from developing countries into developed ones. I just don't get it, we owe these people nothing, we allow them to come, they treat the host country like crap then get away with a lot of the things they do by citing cultural differences. Not that I think preying on 4 year olds is acceptable anywhere.
 
User avatar
fr8mech
Posts: 7902
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:19 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 1):
This is the sort of crap that happens with unchecked immigration,
Quoting stealthz (Thread starter):
citing “cultural differences” as one mitigating factor

It's not just unchecked immigration, whether legal or not, it has to do with the false premise that a multicultural society is somehow better than a society built around one culture that accepts and assimilates other cultures.

It also has to do with weak-willed judges that think that every person can be rehabilitated. That every person can 'learn' to be a functional, contributing member of society.

Predators of children have a special place in hell, and I have no problem advocating getting them there early.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
Unless it's expressly prohibited, it's allowed.
You are not entitled to a public safe space.
Ego Bibere Capulus, Ut Aliis Sit Vivere
 
PHX787
Posts: 7892
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:36 pm

So now I quite understand why Australia is trying it's damndest to curb the refugees from SE Asia.....
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 10170
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:17 pm

I don't understand the issue with immigration brought up in this thread. The issue here is the laws and sentencing for crimes against children in Australia. Whether this guy goes back to Afghanistan or stays in Australia, he is a threat to the community it would seem. Australia could change their Visa laws, but that would still make this guy a problem elsewhere. If he is getting away with it, imagine the folks that are Australian citizens getting away with the light sentencing.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
ROSWELL41
Posts: 777
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2001 3:50 am

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:28 pm

Look at what's been happening in Sweden. Same nonsense. Behave yourself or go to prison. What more do I need to understand?
 
User avatar
pvjin
Posts: 3586
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:52 pm

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:36 pm

Sounds familiar, Finland gets a lot of garbage Horn of Africa under refugee status, plenty of them end up committing all kinds of crimes and big majority stays unemployed.

I really can't understand fools who think taking loads of people from far away, deeply religious countries with totally different culture and then transporting them here is a good idea. That kind of unnatural multiculturalism will always end up as a failure. At least we aren't still even nearly as bad Sweden which is pretty much lost case by now.

Quoting Casinterest (Reply 4):

I don't understand the issue with immigration brought up in this thread.

Members of certain cultural groups seem to commit things like these a lot more than general population does.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
User avatar
Dreadnought
Posts: 10201
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:31 pm

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:55 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 2):
It's not just unchecked immigration, whether legal or not, it has to do with the false premise that a multicultural society is somehow better than a society built around one culture that accepts and assimilates other cultures.

  

"Multiculturalism" has been this idealist utopia promoted by academics and bleeding hearts for the past couple of decades. It's got to stop. If you choose to move to a country, it is your responsibility to learn the language and adapt to local mores and customs. The host country should not have to change to adapt to immigrants.

A few days ago I saw an article about butchers in Germany, who frequently display little pig mannequins in their stores (pork being a traditional staple of German diets) have been harassed, sometimes violently, by immigrants. I find that outrageous.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
Ken777
Posts: 9999
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:58 pm

I would't be surprised if some Aussies physically et that guy know how unacceptable his behavior really is. Traditionally inmates who are in prison for ex crimes against children have a very difficult time. I see no reason why this guy should be any different.

The Aussies taking care of this bum can tell him it is an education in the "culture differences" of Australians and he is going to have a lot of lessons - until he decides to go back where he came from.
 
WestJet747
Posts: 1950
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:43 pm

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:08 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 2):
It's not just unchecked immigration, whether legal or not, it has to do with the false premise that a multicultural society is somehow better than a society built around one culture that accepts and assimilates other cultures.

I think that's a bit of an oversimplification. Multiculturalism can be a great thing if the government is picky with who they let in. I for one accept with open arms all the Indian doctors making their way to my country. Same goes with any other immigrant who is bringing education, skill, or wealth into the country. Who I don't have time for are the elderly and unskilled/uneducated who won't be contributing anything to the economy, and in the long-run will be a net loss for taxpayers.

This isn't a problem if country's are more stringent with who they grant residency to. Closing the borders outright because of poor filtering seems like a gross overreaction.
Flying refined.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 10170
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:16 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 6):

Members of certain cultural groups seem to commit things like these a lot more than general population does.

Seem???
There need to be some statistics. A bad egg is still a bad egg. Whether it is in the brown or white group.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
User avatar
Dreadnought
Posts: 10201
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:31 pm

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:30 pm

Quoting Casinterest (Reply 10):
There need to be some statistics. A bad egg is still a bad egg. Whether it is in the brown or white group.

No "bad egg" about it. The article mentions the guy is Afghan. Ask any soldier who spent time in Afghanistan. It is very common practice for men there to sexually abuse young boys. Part of the the indoctrination classes our troops normally received on their arrival in Afghanistan is that "You are going to see this going on everywhere. It's part of their culture. As sick as it makes you, just turn away."

But just because that sort of behavior is tolerated in Afghanistan does not mean you should not be squashed like a bug if you do that in a civilized country.

[Edited 2014-04-01 09:31:17]
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
User avatar
pvjin
Posts: 3586
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:52 pm

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:49 pm

Quoting Casinterest (Reply 10):

Seem???
There need to be some statistics. A bad egg is still a bad egg. Whether it is in the brown or white group.

At least in this country there are no statistics with ethnicity taken into account available as they would be viewed as "racist", I think that's how it is in Sweden too.
However very often when I see a news report about sexual crime of any kind the offender is from from Africa / Middle East, in fact so often that to me it's clear they commit a lot more crimes like that than general population does (compared to small amount of foreign population in Finland.)

Only statistics I can find say that about 24% of sexual crimes in Finland are committed by someone with foreign background, although only around 5% of Finnish population has foreign background.

Big majority of those with foreign background in Finland came from other European countries, only small minority has African / Middle Eastern background, largest of them being Somalians, around 22% of whom are employed.

So in the end I think it's clear immigrant groups from certain parts of Islamic world have many times higher crime rate than general population especially when it comes to sexual crimes. Too bad there aren't proper statistics out there to give exact numbers.

The few, incomplete statistics from here and abroad (such as one from Denmark) seem to support this.

http://cphpost.dk/news/more-immigran...sters-becoming-criminals.8632.html

Apparently this is how the crime rates are in Denmark as they have done some statistics with ethnicity of the criminals included:

For Danish citizens, 12.9 convictions/1000 people
For Somali nationals 114.4 convictions/1000 people
For other foreign nationals 54.3 convictions/1000 people

I wonder when people will wake up and understand that we simply shouldn't take uneducated people from countries like Somalia, it serves no good. Everywhere in western world masses of uneducated immigrants from poor, deeply religious Muslim countries are creating trouble.

[Edited 2014-04-01 09:59:35]
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 10170
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:10 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 11):
But just because that sort of behavior is tolerated in Afghanistan does not mean you should not be squashed like a bug if you do that in a civilized country.

I agree with that, and that is the point of my original thread. The laws in Australia are the issue and enforcement of such. He was the one who wanted asylum, and as such he submitted to the laws of Australia. There should be no cultural issue in his punishment on this visa.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 12):
I wonder when people will wake up and understand that we simply shouldn't take uneducated people from countries like Somalia, it serves no good. Everywhere in western world masses of uneducated immigrants from poor, deeply religious Muslim countries are creating trouble.

So you would punish those that come and do good for your prejudice against those that come and break the law? The laws are there for a reason, and education and enforcement are a part of those laws. Many countries have had immigrants in the past whose offspring grow up to be the leaders of tomorrow. Many of those immigrants have issues in the transition.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
User avatar
pvjin
Posts: 3586
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:52 pm

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:34 pm

Quoting Casinterest (Reply 13):
So you would punish those that come and do good for your prejudice against those that come and break the law? The laws are there for a reason, and education and enforcement are a part of those laws. Many countries have had immigrants in the past whose offspring grow up to be the leaders of tomorrow. Many of those immigrants have issues in the transition.

Only small minority of those refugees actually seem to do anything good in this society so I really just don't see why we need to take them at all. High crime rate, massive unemployment, what's the point? Europe needs hard working, honest immigrants who are willing to become parts of our societies, not those who disrespect our culture and come here only to live on welfare in their own ghetto's.

Current immigration policy doesn't serve anybody's good, it's solely based on idea of multicultural society itself somehow being a good thing.

Besides, imprisoning all those Somali criminals is expensive and due to bad safety situation in Somalia we can't really send most of them back to Somalia either (well if I could choose I would send them back). Getting imprisoned in Finland isn't a real punishment to them anyway, Finnish prisons are like paradise compared to life in their home country.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
User avatar
n229nw
Posts: 2031
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:21 pm

First, what a ridiculous ruling. Throw the book at the guy.

But this thread is more depressing (if predictable) for the level of backlash by the xenophobic (and often racist) right against the imagined spectre of "multiculturalism."

There is nothing wrong with the idea of multiculturalism. At all. It has been shown over and over again to help rather than hurt societies. Nor does a multicultural value system lead necessarily to segregation (any more than bad attempts at forced integration). Indeed, truly multicultural cities/areas have the most integration and the least friction between different ethnic groups.

Yes, multiculturalism should not be used as an excuse to allow laws to be broken, of course. But this only happens in rare moments and instead of attacking those moments, the right/populist parties seize on those exceptions to attack the entire idea of multiculturalism and then on the immigrants themselves as a group...

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 1):
allowing human garbage from developing countries
Quoting pvjin (Reply 6):
Finland gets a lot of garbage Horn of Africa

Whole groups of people are human garbage, eh? Lovely...
All Glory to the Hypnotoad!
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 10170
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:23 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 14):
Only small minority of those refugees actually seem to do anything good in this society so I really just don't see why we need to take them at all.
Quoting pvjin (Reply 14):
ue to bad safety situation in Somalia we can't really send most of them back to Somalia either

You answered your own questions, but if as a whole Finland sees that they can take the immigrants in, then enforcement of laws and education on those laws is going to be a part of the immigration. Some of these folks may not have the education or skills to do it, but their offspring may be capable of very great things.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12620
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:30 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 6):

I really can't understand fools who think taking loads of people from far away, deeply religious countries with totally different culture and then transporting them here is a good idea.

It's money, at least in the kommune I live in money is the driver, they get paid money for every refugee they accept, this funding is paid for 5 years, after that the refugee is basically left to fend for themselves.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 6):
At least we aren't still even nearly as bad Sweden which is pretty much lost case by now.

Norway is fast heading in the same direction, much of the violent ctime and sexual offences are carried out by refugees from developing countries.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 9):
Same goes with any other immigrant who is bringing education, skill, or wealth into the country.

You don't get much worth while from places like Somalia, Afghanistan.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 14):
Besides, imprisoning all those Somali criminals is expensive and due to bad safety situation in Somalia we can't really send most of them back to Somalia either

And why not, I'd sent them back, to hell with political correctness.
 
Klima
Posts: 191
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 4:18 am

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:42 pm

In the US old money can get you the top attorneys in the state to avoid going to jail for molesting your son and daughter.

Quote:
According to the lawsuit filed by Richards' ex-wife, he admitted to assaulting his infant son in addition to his daughter between 2005 and 2007. Richards was initially indicted on two counts of second-degree child rape, felonies that translate to a 10-year mandatory jail sentence per count. He was released on $60,000 bail while awaiting his charges.

Richards hired one of the state's top law firms and was offered a plea deal of one count of fourth-degree rape charges -- which carries no mandatory minimum prison sentencing. He accepted, and admitted to the assault.

In her sentence, Jurden said he would benefit from participating in a sex offenders rehabilitation program rather than serving prison time.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...obert-richards-rape_n_5060386.html
 
User avatar
pvjin
Posts: 3586
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:52 pm

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:58 pm

Quoting Casinterest (Reply 16):
Some of these folks may not have the education or skills to do it, but their offspring may be capable of very great things.

Unfortunately often these "second-generation immigrants" fail to integrate any better than their parents did, even after leaning the language they tend to do a lot worse at school than general population, all kinds of social problems and even religious radicalization are rather common among them.

Quoting n229nw (Reply 15):
There is nothing wrong with the idea of multiculturalism. At all. It has been shown over and over again to help rather than hurt societies.

Depends from what kind of multiculturalism we are talking about. Think about immigration from Europe to the US for example, people went there to look for better quality of life. To get that they had to work, and working also meant that you had to really integrate to the society. There's nothing wrong with that.

However here it goes basically like this: People from poor, far away countries that have nothing in common with us get transported here and then instead of working get free, unconditional money. As they get money for nothing they have no need to work, and when they don't work they really never integrate properly. They just continue living among their own small, segregated communities while continuously receiving money from the government. In those communities they will never adopt western ideas about freedom of speech, women's rights etc, which is one big reason for high crime rate, after all in countries like Somalia things like freedom of speech and women's rights are indeed non existent.

This kind of multiculturalism just doesn't create anything good and functioning, yet this is exactly what's happening in most European countries with African / Middle Eastern immigrants. A lot of public, perfectly appropriate critique towards this unsustainable development gets silenced as people are afraid of getting called "racist", one of the most over - and wrongly used words of modern times.

If this development continues Europe is going to see more and more social segregation, religious radicalism and violent conflicts between ethnic groups, there's no doubt about that.

[Edited 2014-04-01 12:06:08]
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
tu204
Posts: 2116
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:36 am

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:52 pm

In my view, the problem is not Multiculturalism, but political correctness.

I may have voiced some disapproval of United States politics, but here you guys deserve a pat on the back. And I am comparing it to another country just north of you where I had spent half of my life (Canada).

Similar immigrant pool as in Canada, but Americans put up with much less b.s. than Canadians. Like it or leave it. Don't want to adapt - get out. Don't want to work - have fun living on the streets.

As we can see in the United States, there are plenty of different nationalities and religions that are more or less free to practice them further. But they aren't so quick to start projecting their views and beliefs onto the local population (citizens who have lived there for 2+ generations).
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 10170
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:57 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 19):
Unfortunately often these "second-generation immigrants" fail to integrate any better than their parents did, even after leaning the language they tend to do a lot worse at school than general population, all kinds of social problems and even religious radicalization are rather common among them.

These are all generalizations, and are outliers of the trend. At the end of the a few generations, folks will move on to do better and be better. Heck there was an article today about a child of immigrants from Ghana (they were doctors). His achievement was getting accepted to all 8 Ivy League (elite US universities) that he applied too.


The point being. Immigrants are not the issue here. The issue is the law along with it's enforcement and Education of those subject to it. There are folks that have families that have been in the US for centuries, and they don't amount to anything. However they have family members that have. That is the difference.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
Chaostheory
Posts: 1143
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:09 am

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:18 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 11):
The article mentions the guy is Afghan. Ask any soldier who spent time in Afghanistan. It is very common practice for men there to sexually abuse young boys. Part of the the indoctrination classes our troops normally received on their arrival in Afghanistan is that "You are going to see this going on everywhere. It's part of their culture. As sick as it makes you, just turn away."

But just because that sort of behavior is tolerated in Afghanistan does not mean you should not be squashed like a bug if you do that in a civilized country.

  

Learn about the chai (tea) boys kept by Afghan police/army commanders here (jump to 52min):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja5Q75hf6QI

One particular bit stands out when the police commander is confronted with the allegations of child abuse and rape, he responds by asking them if the police should f*** their grandmothers instead.
 
User avatar
n229nw
Posts: 2031
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:00 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 19):
Think about immigration from Europe to the US for example, people went there to look for better quality of life. To get that they had to work, and working also meant that you had to really integrate to the society. There's nothing wrong with that.

And yet, when they first arrived, each of these European groups was criticized in very similar terms to your criticisms of current waves of immigrants to Europe (and each of these groups took time to integrate). Yes, there were towns throughout for example the Midwest USA where you could get by in German, Italian, or Czech etc. without a word of English a hundred years ago. And yes, there were even stereotypes of "dumb and smelly Swedes" who couldn't integrate and learn English, and there were slums where such people basically lived by scavenging. It's easy to create some kind of golden image of the model immigrant, but the fact is that most immigrants to most countries came poor, and came (as they come to Europe now) for a better quality of life, and none of them gave up their previous lifestyles overnight. It takes a couple of generations AND an approach that is both fair (enforcing the law of the land) and welcoming (open to cultural diversity when it doesn't contravene the law of the land).

Quoting pvjin (Reply 19):
However here it goes basically like this: People from poor, far away countries that have nothing in common with us get transported here and then instead of working get free, unconditional money. As they get money for nothing they have no need to work, and when they don't work they really never integrate properly.

Then the problem is 100% not with "multiculturalism" but with specific welfare legislation (though in some cases the stories are exaggerated there is no doubt that some issues can be addressed this way).

As for integration, America--which has the longest-standing policy of multiculturalism--has done the best with integrating the very same groups you are complaining about.

So again, if multiculturalism has a role, it is a positive one...
All Glory to the Hypnotoad!
 
User avatar
pvjin
Posts: 3586
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:52 pm

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:51 pm

Quoting n229nw (Reply 23):
And yet, when they first arrived, each of these European groups was criticized in very similar terms to your criticisms of current waves of immigrants to Europe (and each of these groups took time to integrate).

At least they had to do some kind of work to survive as nobody was out there giving them free money.

Quoting n229nw (Reply 23):
welcoming (open to cultural diversity when it doesn't contravene the law of the land).

Here welcoming them seems to mean abandoning our own cultural traditions to make sure it won't insult immigrants with different religious views. Now they are talking about removing one traditional, partially Christian song from school spring festivals so that no Muslim will get offended...

In Sweden it's even worse, just plain censorship of anything that would show Muslims in bad light, I think their media is about as free as that of North Korea when it comes to these things.

Quoting n229nw (Reply 23):
Then the problem is 100% not with "multiculturalism" but with specific welfare legislation (though in some cases the stories are exaggerated there is no doubt that some issues can be addressed this way).

As for integration, America--which has the longest-standing policy of multiculturalism--has done the best with integrating the very same groups you are complaining about.

Well I guess it works better for you due to lower amount of welfare programs. I think the minimum we need to do is something that would make welfare benefits conditional, so that immigrants who come here would need to either study or do some kind of work to receive benefits. Unlike some right wingers I don't feel like we should get rid of our welfare state model completely just because of bunch of foreigners who like to abuse the system.

Though now with unemployment rate of 9,1% I don't see why we would need any uneducated workforce at all. Seems like western governments just want to promote multiculturalism and immigration from developing world even when there's no need for more workforce.

As long as immigrants respect our laws & want to become full, working members of this society I don't have any problem with them no matter their religion or ethnicity. But unfortunately all the money our government currently gives to them really doesn't motivate to put much effort on these things.

[Edited 2014-04-01 16:37:38]
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
User avatar
fr8mech
Posts: 7902
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:09 am

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 9):
Multiculturalism can be a great thing if the government is picky with who they let in. I for one accept with open arms all the Indian doctors making their way to my country.

When those entering a country accept the traditions and the culture of the country they immigrate to, it is not multiculturalism, it is assimilation. When the immigrants demand accomadations at the expense of the local culture and the government accedes to to those demans, you have multiculturalism and the dissolution of the host culture.

Quoting n229nw (Reply 15):
But this thread is more depressing (if predictable) for the level of backlash by the xenophobic (and often racist) right against the imagined spectre of "multiculturalism."

I am an immigrant as were my parents. We all learned English. We all accepted the US as our own. We are naturalized citizens. Yes, we went to a Greek church. Yes, we hung out with other Greeks, but I never once saw my parents demand that Americans accept our traditions and cultural mores as their own. We shared our traditions with our neighbors, as they shared their's (we had Polish, French, Puerto Rican, Norwegian, Russian, Chinese and 'American' neighbors).

It is not racism to demand that others put their new home ahead of their old. The claim of racism is the refuge of the left when they have no other argument.

I couldn't care less if it is acceptable in Afghanistan to bugger little boys, in civilized nations it is a crime and should be punished as such without a 'nod' to the culture that spawned such evil.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
Unless it's expressly prohibited, it's allowed.
You are not entitled to a public safe space.
Ego Bibere Capulus, Ut Aliis Sit Vivere
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15634
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:08 am

Quoting n229nw (Reply 15):
this thread is more depressing (if predictable) for the level of backlash by the xenophobic (and often racist) right against the imagined spectre of "multiculturalism."
Quoting n229nw (Reply 15):
There is nothing wrong with the idea of multiculturalism. At all. It has been shown over and over again to help rather than hurt societies. Nor does a multicultural value system lead necessarily to segregation (any more than bad attempts at forced integration). Indeed, truly multicultural cities/areas have the most integration and the least friction between different ethnic groups.

Watch this classic piece from "All in the Family" and tell me Archie isn't somewhat accurate here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALE6ENavvJQ

"...and they're all free to live here in their own separate sections - where they feel safe - and they'll bust your head if you go in there!"

The point being, there tends to be a high level of self-segregation upon arrival by different ethnic groups once they've emigrated from their home countries.

[Edited 2014-04-01 19:59:51]
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
WestJet747
Posts: 1950
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:43 pm

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:18 am

Quoting pvjin (Reply 14):
and due to bad safety situation in Somalia we can't really send most of them back to Somalia either

Sure you can. If they don't want to abide by the rules of their new home, then they lose the privilege to be there.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 17):
You don't get much worth while from places like Somalia, Afghanistan.

That's largely an issue of geography I think. Europe gets the worst of the worst from those countries because they can only get that far...while it's much more difficult for them to make their way to North America. It's the only logical conclusion I can come to given that Europe seems to have all these problems with individuals from those countries, while over here we have little to no problems with them.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 24):
Now they are talking about removing one traditional, partially Christian song from school spring festivals so that no Muslim will get offended...

Well if it's a public, non-denominational school system, then I'd be pretty miffed about Christian prayer in the schools as well.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 25):
When those entering a country accept the traditions and the culture of the country they immigrate to, it is not multiculturalism, it is assimilation. When the immigrants demand accomadations at the expense of the local culture and the government accedes to to those demans, you have multiculturalism and the dissolution of the host culture.

Accepting traditions and culture is not assimilation. Assimilation would be embracing those traditions and culture while abandoning their own.

Honestly, immigrants can do whatever they damn well please in my opinion so long as they abide by our law and be able to carry out conversation in our language. I couldn't care less if they don't blend in with the rest of us if it isn't inconveniencing me.
Flying refined.
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15634
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:53 am

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 27):
Honestly, immigrants can do whatever they damn well please in my opinion so long as they abide by our law and be able to carry out conversation in our language.

And what happens when they don't, and can't? There's the rub; any "next steps" after that are almost always tagged as "racist".
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 21679
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:26 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 7):
"Multiculturalism" has been this idealist utopia promoted by academics and bleeding hearts for the past couple of decades. It's got to stop. If you choose to move to a country, it is your responsibility to learn the language and adapt to local mores and customs. The host country should not have to change to adapt to immigrants.

There is a base line of assimilation. Immigrants who claim that child rape or treating women as property is acceptable in their culture should not be let off the hook when they immigrate to another country, however, keeping other religious and basic cultural customs should not be an issue. I think that is what "bleeding hearts" want.

What say you of the man who raped his 3 year old daughter multiple times and is now on probation for a few years? He is a white man born and raised in United States. He should have gotten the same sentence as any low/middle income person who committed the same crime. But, he has money. I think that is an issue we need to tackle, too.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
n229nw
Posts: 2031
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:02 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 25):
Yes, we went to a Greek church. Yes, we hung out with other Greeks, but I never once saw my parents demand that Americans accept our traditions and cultural mores as their own. We shared our traditions with our neighbors, as they shared their's (we had Polish, French, Puerto Rican, Norwegian, Russian, Chinese and 'American' neighbors).

So what you are saying is that multiculturalism is exactly the approach that worked to make your family feel valid and ultimately integrated as Americans...What you describe is what multiculturalism is.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 25):
I couldn't care less if it is acceptable in Afghanistan to bugger little boys

I agree, but that's because multiculturalism does not mean complete cultural relativism. I think there are some things that are unacceptable anywhere, otherwise, it makes no sense to speak of human rights in the first place. I don't think racism or sexism or homophobia, or rape or murder for that matter, is ok because someone says it is acceptable in his or her culture. I might not want to start a war about things happening in other countries, because I think that in most cases, the violations and situations arising from the invasion/war would be worse than from whatever is going on currently, and thus starting such as war would be both practically and morally bad. But that still doesn't mean that I "tolerate" intolerance or rape or oppression or aggression elsewhere. There are ways to support people working for change within different cultures.

That said, there are also a lot of gray areas. Consider issues such as age of consent laws, physical punishment of children, etc. Certain sexual or child rearing practices may be traumatic in our culture, for example, and much less so (or even "normal") in another cultural context partly because of the way other people around the parties involved react to them. Moral and ethical issues are not so simple or there wouldn't have been smart people devoting their lives to them for centuries and still arguing about it. These however are cases where generally speaking the host country gets to set the rules and immigrants must adapt.

I think this is a very good summary:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 29):
There is a base line of assimilation. Immigrants who claim that child rape or treating women as property is acceptable in their culture should not be let off the hook when they immigrate to another country, however, keeping other religious and basic cultural customs should not be an issue. I think that is what "bleeding hearts" want.

What say you of the man who raped his 3 year old daughter multiple times and is now on probation for a few years? He is a white man born and raised in United States. He should have gotten the same sentence as any low/middle income person who committed the same crime. But, he has money. I think that is an issue we need to tackle, too.
All Glory to the Hypnotoad!
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12620
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:49 am

Quoting Casinterest (Reply 21):
These are all generalizations, and are outliers of the trend. At the end of the a few generations, folks will move on to do better and be better.

But why should we have to put up with several generations of problems waiting for the decent generation to come along? There is a hell of a lot of difference between Irish, Swedish, Norwegian, Italian & Polish people heading over to the US to make a better life for themselves than the crap that's infesting Europe from Africa. You can't even compare the two groups, one went to work and make a better life, the other has gone because they know European countries are a soft touch and will allow them to live a better life then they have at home without needing to work.

Quoting n229nw (Reply 23):
And yes, there were even stereotypes of "dumb and smelly Swedes" who couldn't integrate and learn English, and there were slums where such people basically lived by scavenging.

If you have any articles about this I'd be interested in reading them, because it flies in the face of everything I've ever read.

Quoting n229nw (Reply 23):
As for integration, America--which has the longest-standing policy of multiculturalism--has done the best with integrating the very same groups you are complaining about.

So thousands of Africans are landing in the US everyday, pull the other one.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 26):
The point being, there tends to be a high level of self-segregation upon arrival by different ethnic groups once they've emigrated from their home countries.

Parts of Oslo are no almost completely empty of ethnic Norwegians. The schools in those areas are also some of the worst in the country.
 
Stealthz
Topic Author
Posts: 5555
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:43 am

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:59 am

Quoting n229nw (Reply 15):
But this thread is more depressing (if predictable) for the level of backlash by the xenophobic (and often racist) right against the imagined spectre of "multiculturalism."

I didn't plan on this being a xenophobic backlash type thread ... in hindsight though surprised it did not degenerate further.

My initial intent was a complaint about the weak willed and overly PC judiciary and the legal fraternity that would use such a defence.
In the print version of the story it mentions that the "alleged" offender knew the situation, reported to have told the arresting officers.." this is not a problem back home"

Back to the multicultural issue... I am old enough to have lived through several "waves" of immigrants.
I went to school with the children of the post war migration from Southern Europe, hard working parents keen to make a new start in land of great opportunity and keen to forget the horrors of the '40s

A bit more than a decade later working in Sydney's West,, there were the Post Vietnam era "boat people" quickly making enclaves where they felt comfortable with fellow immigrants but focused on quickly becoming part of the Australian community.

Not much later in the '80s we start to see the large numbers of East Asian and Middle Eastern migrants.. some of those communities now well into their 2nd generation and more... No real interest in becoming part of the community, being different and wanting everyone to accommodate them is a huge problem.
The NSW police has a special task force to handle MEOC .... The OC stands for Organised Crime.. you can guess what the ME stands for(you have to guess because if I tell you I will be branded racist!!)
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
User avatar
pvjin
Posts: 3586
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:52 pm

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:20 am

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 27):
Sure you can. If they don't want to abide by the rules of their new home, then they lose the privilege to be there.

Tell that to all human rights organizations that always side with the criminal. They see any effort to fix these problems as racist attacks against human rights of poor innocent refugees.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 27):
Well if it's a public, non-denominational school system, then I'd be pretty miffed about Christian prayer in the schools as well.

Well I wouldn't call an old traditional, partially Christian song that is sung once a year in school during spring ceremony a prayer. Besides, children are taught about religions at school & if there are enough Muslims at school they will receive their own religious education.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12620
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:30 am

Quoting n229nw (Reply 15):

Whole groups of people are human garbage, eh? Lovely...

If you met some of them you would get where we are coming from. These are not good people.
 
User avatar
akiss20
Posts: 942
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:50 am

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:46 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 34):

Quoting n229nw (Reply 15):

Whole groups of people are human garbage, eh? Lovely...

If you met some of them you would get where we are coming from. These are not good people.

So from your experiences with a small sub-set of the group you feel you can claim that they are "human garbage"? Following that logic, I conclude all people from New Zealand are xenophobic based on how I see you behaving.
Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are
 
Airontario
Posts: 679
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2001 12:04 am

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:46 am

Quoting stealthz (Reply 32):
Not much later in the '80s we start to see the large numbers of East Asian and Middle Eastern migrants.. some of those communities now well into their 2nd generation and more... No real interest in becoming part of the community, being different and wanting everyone to accommodate them is a huge problem.

What do you mean by "not becoming part of the community"? In Toronto we have a large number of immigrants from the Middle East and South Asia. They still wear their national/religious clothing, still eat their national food. So they're different than Multi-generational Canadians in that aspect. However they speak English (or at least try to) and work at the same places as everyone else does, so to me they're part of the community. Is this different from where you live? (I'm not claiming it's the same, I'm just honestly curious.)
 
User avatar
fr8mech
Posts: 7902
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:51 am

Quoting n229nw (Reply 30):
So what you are saying is that multiculturalism is exactly the approach that worked to make your family feel valid and ultimately integrated as Americans...What you describe is what multiculturalism is.

Except for one thing; everyone of our neighbors were American citizens or were trying to be American citizens. No one was trying to force their views on the host country.

I grew up learning about the 'melting pot' and the concepts surrounding it. Later, we learned that the 'salad bowl' was replacing the melting pot and I instinctively knew that it was wrong. When you up end a salad bowl, there is nothing holding the individual components together, unless you have a healthy (or not so healthy) dollop of dressing.

I'm reminded of something that is attributed to Reagan:

"America represents something universal in the human spirit. I received a letter not long ago from a man who said, 'You can go to Japan to live, but you cannot become Japanese. You can go to France to live and not become a Frenchman. You can go to live in Germany or Turkey, and you won't become a German or a Turk.' But then he added, 'Anybody from any corner of the world can come to America to live and become an American.'

but, in order to become American, you must give up significant parts of your home culture and adopt those we have here (which, I realize, to some extent are adopted or morphed from immigrants).

Quoting stealthz (Reply 32):
My initial intent was a complaint about the weak willed and overly PC judiciary and the legal fraternity that would use such a defence.
In the print version of the story it mentions that the "alleged" offender knew the situation, reported to have told the arresting officers.." this is not a problem back home"

That weak-willed and overly PC judiciary is a result of a generation of:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 32):
No real interest in becoming part of the community, being different and wanting everyone to accommodate them is a huge problem.

It is 'multiculturalism' run wild. There is nothing wrong with celebrating other cultures, but those other cultures should be subordinate to the culture, traditions and laws of the host country. To take 'cultural differences' into account when dealing with crime is to allow the dissolution of your own culture.

Now, back to idiot judges: you certainly don't have a monopoly on them in Australia:

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2014/04/01...ng-3-year-old-daughter-because-he-
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
Unless it's expressly prohibited, it's allowed.
You are not entitled to a public safe space.
Ego Bibere Capulus, Ut Aliis Sit Vivere
 
kiwiinoz
Posts: 2000
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:07 pm

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:11 pm

Quoting stealthz (Thread starter):
you are not welcome in this country and you can go back to the hell hole that bred you.
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 1):
human garbage from developing countries into developed ones
Quoting pvjin (Reply 6):
gets a lot of garbage Horn of Africa
Quoting pvjin (Reply 6):
unnatural multiculturalism will always end up as a failure
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 17):
You don't get much worth while from places like Somalia, Afghanistan.

This thread is an interesting phenomenon. A combination of mob-mentality combined with relativity. Take a group of people who are clearly closet racists. They take the opportunity to spew the above kind of garbage under a the perceived veil of legitimacy, because it is within the context of a child abuse case. As we know, with child abuse culprits, it's a kind of "no holds barred" situation in the media.

Not saying I agree with the judge on this one, and there should be no cultural allowance made. They should have thrown the book at him.

But (and I am not excusing the guy at all) I reckon these immigrants and refugees face a pretty tough time assimilating if they experience the above kind of racist attitudes in their new country.

Incidentally, I live in Asia, and this incident is in Australia. There are many Australian expats over here in the countries I regularly visit, (China, HK, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, Phillipines, Taiwan, Korea). Generally, they barely assimilate at all, make very little attempt to learn the language, and stick pretty much to their own cultural group.
 
User avatar
pvjin
Posts: 3586
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:52 pm

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:08 pm

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 38):

I really don't feel like "closet racist", I just don't accept that some people can come here and then just live on welfare for years or decades without doing anything useful, or in the worst case also committing crimes.

This country has plenty of immigrant groups that have adjusted here just fine, for example Vietnamese refugees who came here during Vietnam war & plenty people from Turkey & Balkans, many of whom have been particularly successful at starting restaurant businesses.

I don't think most people have anything against working, honest immigrants who do their best to truly be part of our society. Those that refuse to work and learn the language can only blame themselves for any negative attitudes they receive.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12620
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:17 pm

Quoting AKiss20 (Reply 35):
Following that logic, I conclude all people from New Zealand are xenophobic based on how I see you behaving.

I would say most Kiwi's are sick and tired of immigrants and wish we had a much tighter immigration policy. I know many Norwegians who also feel the same but would never voice there opinions because they wouldn't want to be considered the racist.

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 38):
Generally, they barely assimilate at all, make very little attempt to learn the language, and stick pretty much to their own cultural group.

And most of them end up going home, there aren't there for life, nor do they bludge off the local taxpayer, or expect the country to change to meet there needs.
 
User avatar
fr8mech
Posts: 7902
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:35 pm

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 38):
Take a group of people who are clearly closet racists.

Closet racists? Why? Because I want folks to assimilate vs. live in their own closed communities AND insist that we live by their rules.

The claim of racism is made so often and in such abundance that it has lost its meaning and its impact. It is thrown around as a talisman that is designed to end meaningful debate instead of encourage it.

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 38):
There are many Australian expats over here in the countries I regularly visit, (China, HK, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, Phillipines, Taiwan, Korea). Generally, they barely assimilate at all, make very little attempt to learn the language, and stick pretty much to their own cultural group.

That's up to them. If they don't want to participate in their new nation, that's up to them and their loss. But, I don't see those folks trying to force their culture and traditions on the native population. In fact, reading through your list of nations, at the minimum, your ex-Pats would be told to pound sand. At the other extreme, they could face criminal sanctions up to execution for trying to push their own culture on the native population.

[Edited 2014-04-02 07:38:20]

[Edited 2014-04-02 07:39:15]
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
Unless it's expressly prohibited, it's allowed.
You are not entitled to a public safe space.
Ego Bibere Capulus, Ut Aliis Sit Vivere
 
kiwiinoz
Posts: 2000
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:07 pm

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:07 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 39):
I really don't feel like "closet racist", I just don't accept that some people can come here and then just live on welfare for years or decades without doing anything useful, or in the worst case also committing crimes.

That is the "closeted" rationale representation of your racism. This:

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 38):
Quoting pvjin (Reply 6):
gets a lot of garbage Horn of Africa

Is where it breaks out of the closet, particularly where the news article relates to someone not from Africa.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 40):
And most of them end up going home, there aren't there for life, nor do they bludge off the local taxpayer, or expect the country to change to meet there needs.

Actually, many plan to stay, thanks to the favourable tax environment. Which, a socialist would argue, is also bludging.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 41):
Closet racists? Why? Because I want folks to assimilate vs. live in their own closed communities AND insist that we live by their rules.

Actually I didn't highlight any of your statements to be particularly racist. Your position is reasonable, (although a little simplistic). I dont think there is widespread occurance of a small immigrant population insisting that the broader populace live by their rules. Merely some cultural respect of their own norms

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 41):
That's up to them. If they don't want to participate in their new nation, that's up to them and their loss. But, I don't see those folks trying to force their culture and traditions on the native population.

They most definitely do, although it happens in very different ways, (economically rather than culturally).

And it certainly happened in the US when the Europeans took over the joint. Just because it happened many years ago doesn't mean that it doesn't have context to today's situation. Culture is fairly dynamic, especially in the US. For the most part, this is positive. The key is to manage the challenges well
 
User avatar
pvjin
Posts: 3586
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:52 pm

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:22 pm

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 42):
Is where it breaks out of the closet, particularly where the news article relates to someone not from Africa.

Yeah well maybe I should have chosen my words more wisely. I have nothing against the minority of Somali people who actually work, don't commit crimes and respect this society and our culture. The rest I consider worthless to us, they should either change their ways or get sent back to their home country.

I don't consider this racist as I don't dislike anyone because of his/her ethnicity, race or religion. Most of the troublesome immigrants just happen to come from Somalia.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
User avatar
fr8mech
Posts: 7902
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:35 pm

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 42):
Merely some cultural respect of their own norms

There's a difference between 'cultural respect' of the norms that are brought from the homeland and an insistence that those norms become the norms in the host nation or even in the smaller community that the immigrants have established.

The law is the law and exceptions can not be made because 'that's the way we did it back home'.

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 42):
I dont think there is widespread occurance of a small immigrant population insisting that the broader populace live by their rules.

I seem to recall Denmark and France having issues. I know up in Michigan we have some issues with cab drivers.

This stuff tends to happen when insular communities are set up by an large immigrant group. It is up to the local governments and the national governments to insist that these communities abide by the laws and regulations setup for the greater community and it's up to the judiciary to stop taking 'cultural differences' as an excuse for criminal behavior.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
Unless it's expressly prohibited, it's allowed.
You are not entitled to a public safe space.
Ego Bibere Capulus, Ut Aliis Sit Vivere
 
User avatar
akiss20
Posts: 942
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:50 am

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:38 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 40):
Quoting AKiss20 (Reply 35):
Following that logic, I conclude all people from New Zealand are xenophobic based on how I see you behaving.

I would say most Kiwi's are sick and tired of immigrants and wish we had a much tighter immigration policy. I know many Norwegians who also feel the same but would never voice there opinions because they wouldn't want to be considered the racist.

Calling an entire group of people "human garbage" based purely on where they are from is a pretty far cry saying "I have some issue with our immigration policy."
Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are
 
User avatar
RyanairGuru
Posts: 8201
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:01 pm

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 38):
This thread is an interesting phenomenon. A combination of mob-mentality combined with relativity. Take a group of people who are clearly closet racists. They take the opportunity to spew the above kind of garbage under a the perceived veil of legitimacy, because it is within the context of a child abuse case. As we know, with child abuse culprits, it's a kind of "no holds barred" situation in the media.

Thank you for calling it out for what it is. This thread is disgusting, and - as a global community - I feel that some members should be banned over their comments. Clearly they cannot interact in an international forum.

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 38):
Not saying I agree with the judge on this one, and there should be no cultural allowance made. They should have thrown the book at him

  

The decision is appalling, and beyond justification. No doubt the DPP will appeal.

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 38):
they barely assimilate at all, make very little attempt to learn the language, and stick pretty much to their own cultural group.

Haha, good point. Let's ignore the Caucasian expats in Asia ... who generally live in insular communities, don't learn the language, don't try to mix with the native population.

Of course it's different when we do it.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 40):
or expect the country to change to meet there needs.

At the very least they expect them to speak English, as many have no intention of learning the local language.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
User avatar
fr8mech
Posts: 7902
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:18 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 46):
Thank you for calling it out for what it is. This thread is disgusting, and - as a global community - I feel that some members should be banned over their comments. Clearly they cannot interact in an international forum.

So, when you can't argue a point, you call for censorship? There is nothing wrong or disgusting about the views on this thread. I don't agree with all the sentiments of those who are 'on my side', nor do I disagree with the sentiments of those who are 'not on my side'. But, the last thing I want to do is silence anyone who disagrees with me. That is the coward's way out.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 46):
Haha, good point. Let's ignore the Caucasian expats in Asia ... who generally live in insular communities, don't learn the language, don't try to mix with the native population.

But, are those Caucasians demanding that the Asians exempt them from their laws?

Again, if you want to live in an insular community, it's your loss. There are plenty of those communities here in the US, but they don't try to inflict their customs and culture on the host. And, if they do, I certainly hope our government has the balls to squash them.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
Unless it's expressly prohibited, it's allowed.
You are not entitled to a public safe space.
Ego Bibere Capulus, Ut Aliis Sit Vivere
 
User avatar
pvjin
Posts: 3586
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:52 pm

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:22 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 46):
Haha, good point. Let's ignore the Caucasian expats in Asia ... who generally live in insular communities, don't learn the language, don't try to mix with the native population.

As far as I know those expats generally earn their own living and do not commit crimes any more than the local population does. That makes the whole thing entirely different.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 46):
I feel that some members should be banned over their comments. Clearly they cannot interact in an international forum.

Silencing criticism and discussion doesn't change the fact that current ideas of how immigration & multiculturalism works are seriously flawed. Should we just be quiet and happily watch more and more people coming here just to abuse our welfare system?

All the endless political correctness and use of race card to suppress perfectly healthy discussion just gets boring over time. At least in Europe current way of thinking seems to be that we should pretend this problem doesn't exist and just stay quiet. If this mentality continues the outcome will certainly be very bad when all kinds of social problems finally explode.

[Edited 2014-04-02 14:28:48]
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
User avatar
allrite
Posts: 2594
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:28 pm

RE: OK To Be A Child Sex Offender..

Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:10 am

It would be illuminating to speak to a practising member of the judiciary as to the reasoning behind the sentences handed down for various child abuse cases in general. I note that abuse perpetrated by (usually white, multigeneration Australian) teachers and priests often seems to result in sentences of less than 10 years while the victims suffer for life.

But before we blame one ethnicity over another have a look at the horrible stories out of the current Royal Commission into Institutional Responses into Child Sexual Abuse. Fine upstanding citizens of highly moral organisations one and all, aren't they?

Quoting stealthz (Reply 32):
Back to the multicultural issue... I am old enough to have lived through several "waves" of immigrants.
I went to school with the children of the post war migration from Southern Europe, hard working parents keen to make a new start in land of great opportunity and keen to forget the horrors of the '40s

A bit more than a decade later working in Sydney's West,, there were the Post Vietnam era "boat people" quickly making enclaves where they felt comfortable with fellow immigrants but focused on quickly becoming part of the Australian community.

Not much later in the '80s we start to see the large numbers of East Asian and Middle Eastern migrants.. some of those communities now well into their 2nd generation and more... No real interest in becoming part of the community, being different and wanting everyone to accommodate them is a huge problem.

I define cultural integration as the point where people of different cultures interact openly with members of other cultures, respect common laws and can communicate in a common language and are happy to share their own culture with others. It doesn't involve giving up one's parent culture, except for those elements that clash with local laws and also to allow for the culture to change and adapt to the local situation (eg allowing your children to find their own way).

I grew up in a melting pot suburb in Australia, with my first friends of Italian, Greek, Indian and Japanese origin amongst others. I actually found the Southern Europeans to be much like those of the Middle East when it comes to speed of "integration". I still remember at one uni lecture in the mid 90's when the class was asked what nationality they were a number put up their hands and said "Greek!" although they had been born here. You can still hear a very Greek, Yugoslavian or Middle Eastern accent in many of the children, even though they have lived their lives here, while the young Asians and Indians have a much broader Australian accent. I put this down to the children being raised in an environment where they only associate with their cousins and "village". But, in the case of the Southern Europeans especially, I think that's changing and the surname and accent often don't correspond in the way they used to. Hopefully the same will happen with the Middle Eastern community.

One thing I think would help is to eliminate religious schools - be they Orthodox, Muslim, Christian or Filthy-Rich Exclusive so that children are exposed to a wide range of cultural influences.

But I like multiculturalism. I think it has enriched Australian society immensely. I like eating lots of different cuisines, celebrating different festivals and being exposed to a wider range of ideas.
I like artificial banana essence!

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos