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ImperialEagle
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CLE Cab Drivers Say NO To Gay Games----

Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:30 am

Here's a new one. Now the cab drivers are refusing to to work with advertisements atop their cabs for the upcoming Gay Games! Here's the link from today's Fox News;

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/04/18...-with-gay-games/?intcmp=latestnews

How goofy is that? They are trying to say it is "isolated" to a small number of people, and while that may be true, who ever heard of not performing your job because of a piece of advertising? I wonder how many of these guys are struggling to feed a family?!!!
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
melpax
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RE: CLE Cab Drivers Say NO To Gay Games----

Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:36 pm

Seems to be the week for it.....

Problems here in Melbourne, with some taxi drivers refusing to transport passengers with guide dogs, even though they're legally obligated to accept the fare. Same issue as above.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/ta...ammed-on-blind-20140418-36w8s.html
 
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seb146
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RE: CLE Cab Drivers Say NO To Gay Games----

Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:17 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Thread starter):
Now the cab drivers are refusing to to work with advertisements atop their cabs for the upcoming Gay Games!

Probably a large scale boycott of taxis in CLE is in order. Show them how the tourist dollar helps them out.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Mir
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RE: CLE Cab Drivers Say NO To Gay Games----

Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:28 pm

Quoting melpax (Reply 1):
Problems here in Melbourne, with some taxi drivers refusing to transport passengers with guide dogs, even though they're legally obligated to accept the fare. Same issue as above.

Except for drivers who are genuinely allergic to dogs, yes. I don't know of anyone who is allergic to a sign on their car.

-Mir
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Kiwirob
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RE: CLE Cab Drivers Say NO To Gay Games----

Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:21 pm

If they don't want to work with a gay advertisement on their car why force them. You wouldn't expect a black cab driver to work with a KKK sign on his roof, so why expect someone to work with a sign on there roof which they don't like, just because you think they should? It's free will isn't it?
 
WestJet747
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RE: CLE Cab Drivers Say NO To Gay Games----

Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:05 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Thread starter):
They are trying to say it is "isolated" to a small number of people

I don't know how many cab drivers there are in the city, but the article says it's only 25 drivers, which I assume is a pretty small fraction of all drivers.

Quoting ImperialEagle (Thread starter):
I wonder how many of these guys are struggling to feed a family?!!!

Again, I'm not sure things are down there, but up in Toronto we constantly hear about cab drivers giving sob stories about how they don't make enough to live one...yet there's a huge issue with those same cab drivers turning down patrons who aren't going to where the cabbie wants to go. It's gotten so bad that Toronto City Council has instituted rules around it to mitigate the issue.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 2):
Probably a large scale boycott of taxis in CLE is in order. Show them how the tourist dollar helps them out.

It's the drivers making this decision, not the cab companies. If you want to voice your opinion with your wallet, then make a point of only using cabs that have that particular advertisement. There's no point in boycotting cabs altogether.
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airportugal310
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RE: CLE Cab Drivers Say NO To Gay Games----

Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:25 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 4):

I agree.
Personally, I don't understand this notion of making everyone boycott things just because a subsection of the population has a moral issue with something.

JUST DON'T USE THE PRODUCT OR SERVICE!
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
photopilot
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RE: CLE Cab Drivers Say NO To Gay Games----

Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:02 pm

Here's the question. Who owns the cab? If it's the cab company and the driver is an employee, then he has to do what the company says. If the driver owns the cab and is basically an independent business who only contracts for despatch services, then he should be able to decide what is placed on his car. That again depends on what his contract with the despatch company says. And lastly, what do the specific human rights laws of that state say?
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: CLE Cab Drivers Say NO To Gay Games----

Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:35 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
Except for drivers who are genuinely allergic to dogs

In which case they shouldn't be a cabbie. As melpax says, they have a legal obligation to transport blind patrons with a dog. Period. End of story. They would be laughed out of court if they tried to raise that when they are sued for discrimination.

Quoting melpax (Reply 1):
Same issue as above.

Actually this is much more serious. While I understand that the perceived perceived issue is similar (discrimination on the basis of blindness and discrimination on the basis of sexuality), it doesn't look like cabbies in Cleveland are refusing to transport gay people.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
TheCommodore
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RE: CLE Cab Drivers Say NO To Gay Games----

Sun Apr 20, 2014 1:01 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
Except for drivers who are genuinely allergic to dogs, yes.

Then don't drive cabs, simple.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 4):
If they don't want to work with a gay advertisement on their car why force them.

Good point.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 4):
It's free will isn't it?

And this is America. The land of the free !
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
ltbewr
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RE: CLE Cab Drivers Say NO To Gay Games----

Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:06 am

The issue of ads on cabs that are not liked by many cab drivers is nothing new. This has happened in NY City and elsewhere and mainly the conflict is over the religious beliefs of many cab drivers that are of the Islamic faith which many believers see as opposed to same-sex relationships. Ads for alcoholic beverages and ads with sexual talk, have also been protested by Islamic faith believer cab drivers. I suspect this is the case with the Cleveland cab drivers protest.
 
rwy04lga
Posts: 1976
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RE: CLE Cab Drivers Say NO To Gay Games----

Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:19 am

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 9):
And this is America. The land of the free !

Why do 'people'(I really want to say 'idiot' or 'moron', but can't) from other countries think that because the US is 'the land of the free', you can do whatever you want and/or everything is free? 'The land of the free' is a statement comparing the relative freedom in the US enjoyed by the 'huddled masses yearning to breathe free', to the conditions that they endured in the homelands that they were trying to escape.

But you'll always find some schlub with a bias against the US making some dumb   comment like that, not realizing the the statement 'land of the free' has a much deeper meaning to many other people.
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
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seb146
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RE: CLE Cab Drivers Say NO To Gay Games----

Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:39 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 4):
If they don't want to work with a gay advertisement on their car why force them. You wouldn't expect a black cab driver to work with a KKK sign on his roof, so why expect someone to work with a sign on there roof which they don't like, just because you think they should? It's free will isn't it?

So gay=KKK? What?

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 5):
It's the drivers making this decision, not the cab companies.

And it is we the people making the decision to boycott the cab drivers (who are under contract) who decide not to support how people are born. Cab drivers are fine with people being born as a woman or with dark skin but god forbid someone be born attracted to someone of the same gender!
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
JJJ
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RE: CLE Cab Drivers Say NO To Gay Games----

Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:05 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 4):
so why expect someone to work with a sign on there roof which they don't like, just because you think they should? It's free will isn't it?

It's their workplace. Just like that muslim girl at some British supermarket that refused to sell pork products.

Man it up or go find some other job that's more suitable for your personal beliefs.
 
oldeuropean
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RE: CLE Cab Drivers Say NO To Gay Games----

Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:27 am

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 11):
But you'll always find some schlub with a bias against the US making some dumb comment like that, not realizing the the statement 'land of the free' has a much deeper meaning to many other people.

Perhaps because nowadays the societies in some other countries are freer, less uptight and with less prejudices towards all kind of minorities.
Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: CLE Cab Drivers Say NO To Gay Games----

Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:23 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 12):
So gay=KKK? What?

It was all I could think of at the time.

Quoting JJJ (Reply 13):
Just like that muslim girl at some British supermarket that refused to sell pork products.

Slightly different I think. You're mixing the stupidity of religion with someones personal morals.
 
TheCommodore
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RE: CLE Cab Drivers Say NO To Gay Games----

Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:36 am

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 11):
But you'll always find some schlub with a bias against the US making some dumb comment like that, not realizing the the statement 'land of the free' has a much deeper meaning to many other people.

The way "America, Land of the free etc.... is portrayed around the world.

Geez...... you get out a bit more, and see the world from a different prism.
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
JJJ
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RE: CLE Cab Drivers Say NO To Gay Games----

Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:43 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 15):
Slightly different I think. You're mixing the stupidity of religion with someones personal morals

Religion is nothing but personal morals brought to you by an organisation. To me refusing to do your work because of some medieval fairy tales about pork is exactly the same than refusing to do your work because you feel strongly about homosexuals.

Both employers probably feel the same.
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: CLE Cab Drivers Say NO To Gay Games----

Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:26 pm

Quoting JJJ (Reply 17):

Religion is nothing but personal morals brought to you by an organisation.

No it's not.
 
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falstaff
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RE: CLE Cab Drivers Say NO To Gay Games----

Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:18 pm

I question why it has to be called the "Gay Games" at all after reading this statement: "This is the first year that the nonprofit Gay Games, which are open to all adults regardless of sexual orientation, has utilized advertising atop taxicabs"

What is the point of "Gay Games" to begin with?

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 5):
Again, I'm not sure things are down there, but up in Toronto we constantly hear about cab drivers giving sob stories about how they don't make enough to live one...yet there's a huge issue with those same cab drivers turning down patrons who aren't going to where the cabbie wants to go. It's gotten so bad that Toronto City Council has instituted rules around it to mitigate the issue.

I lived in a smallish town, in Missouri, that had a cab company that refused to pick people up or drop them off at bars. The one and only driver didn't approve of drinking. A new guy came to town and specialized in transporting people to and from bars. He eventually became a 24 hour operation and catered to everyone and put the other guy out of business. The point of that story is that if these guys don't like taking people certain places or advertising certain things there will be cabbies that do and they will get the business.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 5):
which I assume is a pretty small fraction of all drivers.

I would think it is. Those drivers aren't like too many cab drivers I have ever met. Most of them only care about making money.
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
WestJet747
Posts: 1950
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:43 pm

RE: CLE Cab Drivers Say NO To Gay Games----

Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:26 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 8):
In which case they shouldn't be a cabbie.
Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 9):
Then don't drive cabs, simple.

Funny, because that line would get you laughed out of court. That's like saying somebody with a seafood allergy shouldn't be a teacher because of the very rare instances in which a student brings in fish for lunch.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 8):
As melpax says, they have a legal obligation to transport blind patrons with a dog. Period. End of story. They would be laughed out of court if they tried to raise that when they are sued for discrimination.

The onus is on the employer to provide reasonable accommodation for customers AND employees. You would have to argue that transporting animals is a bona fide occupational requirement (BFOR), and you would only ever be successful in doing that if you could prove in court that the concessions made for the driver would cause undue harm to the business.

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 11):
Why do 'people'(I really want to say 'idiot' or 'moron', but can't) from other countries think that because the US is 'the land of the free', you can do whatever you want and/or everything is free? 'The land of the free' is a statement comparing the relative freedom in the US enjoyed by the 'huddled masses yearning to breathe free', to the conditions that they endured in the homelands that they were trying to escape.

But you'll always find some schlub with a bias against the US making some dumb   comment like that, not realizing the the statement 'land of the free' has a much deeper meaning to many other people.

It's not nearly as bad as the people who misuse the term "freedom of speech" to mean you can say anything you want without consequence.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 12):
And it is we the people making the decision to boycott the cab drivers (who are under contract) who decide not to support how people are born. Cab drivers are fine with people being born as a woman or with dark skin but god forbid someone be born attracted to someone of the same gender!

Swing and a miss.

How would you know who the drivers are who refuse to work in cabs with the ads in questions? It sounds like you would be arbitrarily boycotting any cab you see, which would be boycotting the innocent drivers as well. Really, the only person that loses in that scenario is you because you have to find alternative modes of transportation.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 15):
You're mixing the stupidity of religion with someones personal morals.

Those two things are not mutually exclusive for many people.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 19):
I question why it has to be called the "Gay Games" at all after reading this statement: "This is the first year that the nonprofit Gay Games, which are open to all adults regardless of sexual orientation, has utilized advertising atop taxicabs"

I assume they have to say that because they aren't allowed to discriminate against heterosexuals, much like all other Games cannot discriminate against homosexuals et al.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 19):
I lived in a smallish town, in Missouri, that had a cab company that refused to pick people up or drop them off at bars. The one and only driver didn't approve of drinking. A new guy came to town and specialized in transporting people to and from bars. He eventually became a 24 hour operation and catered to everyone and put the other guy out of business. The point of that story is that if these guys don't like taking people certain places or advertising certain things there will be cabbies that do and they will get the business.

I'm in full agreement. Let the market work.
Flying refined.
 
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seb146
Posts: 23462
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RE: CLE Cab Drivers Say NO To Gay Games----

Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:30 pm

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 20):
How would you know who the drivers are who refuse to work in cabs with the ads in questions?

In other words: they have every right to complain but I have no right to defend myself.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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falstaff
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RE: CLE Cab Drivers Say NO To Gay Games----

Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:19 pm

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 20):
I assume they have to say that because they aren't allowed to discriminate against heterosexuals, much like all other Games cannot discriminate against homosexuals et al.

apparently it is a controversial issue.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/30/sp...es-as-gay.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
Cadet985
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RE: CLE Cab Drivers Say NO To Gay Games----

Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:50 pm

Almost all cab drivers in this country are independent contractors, even though they may work for a "cab company." They're never under legal obligation to accept a passenger (hence the joke that if you're a certain race in NYC, good luck getting a cab at night). Likewise if there's an advertisement that the cab driver disagrees with, I don't believe they can be forced to display it.

Marc
 
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mariner
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RE: CLE Cab Drivers Say NO To Gay Games----

Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:45 am

Quoting falstaff (Reply 22):
apparently it is a controversial issue.

The use of the word "gay" is always controversial, as in mildly offensive, to me.

I'm fine with being called queer and, as an Australian, I wear the appellation "poofter" as badge of honour - I survived the homophobia of Australia in the 1970's - LOL.

But - no, we all supposed to adopt the bland American "gay." I see it as a symbol of the hegemony of American cultural imperialism.

I;d pay a big quid to see the reaction of these taxi-drivers to a sign saying "Queer Games."  

mariner
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sccutler
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RE: CLE Cab Drivers Say NO To Gay Games----

Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:26 am

You pays your money, you takes your chances. Most cab drivers in the USA are "independent contractors," indeed - after a fashion! How it works is, they lease the cab from the cab company (which probably lobbied long and hard to secure legal restrictions on how cabs can operate in order to make it nearly impossible for independent operators to remain competitive), with the "lease" running for 24 hours. IF they hustle and work hard for 20- to 22 of those 24 hours, they might make decent money. Might.

So, someone does not care to advertise or cater to a particular group, more power to them. They'll just lose revenue. Bad deal.
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skywaymanaz
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RE: CLE Cab Drivers Say NO To Gay Games----

Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:14 am

Sounds like ride sharing will get a boost in CLE at the expense of all cab drivers.
 
WestJet747
Posts: 1950
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RE: CLE Cab Drivers Say NO To Gay Games----

Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:38 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 21):

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 20):
How would you know who the drivers are who refuse to work in cabs with the ads in questions?

In other words: they have every right to complain but I have no right to defend myself.

Ignoring the massive deflection...what would you need to defend yourself from? And yes, they do have every right to complain, and you have every right to not give them your business. But the issue is that you've been unable to justify how you would set them apart from the rest.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 22):
apparently it is a controversial issue

People need better things to occupy their time than to worry about the sexuality of the people playing sports...

Quoting mariner (Reply 24):
But - no, we all supposed to adopt the bland American "gay." I see it as a symbol of the hegemony of American cultural imperialism.

I've yet to come across a heterosexual person offended by being called "straight" as a symbol of the hegemony of American cultural imperialism.
Flying refined.
 
JJJ
Posts: 3965
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RE: CLE Cab Drivers Say NO To Gay Games----

Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:53 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 18):
No it's not.

I don't think an employer will notice the difference. In both cases their beliefs prevent them from doing the job they're paid to do.

Whether those beliefs are purely personal or brought by an organised religion makes little difference to the employer.
 
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falstaff
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RE: CLE Cab Drivers Say NO To Gay Games----

Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:53 pm

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 27):

People need better things to occupy their time than to worry about the sexuality of the people playing sports...

I could care less about athlete's asexuality; I care about their performance on the field of play. Which is why I find the entire concept of "gay games" just self imposed segregation.
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
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mariner
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RE: CLE Cab Drivers Say NO To Gay Games----

Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:45 am

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 27):
I've yet to come across a heterosexual person offended by being called "straight" as a symbol of the hegemony of American cultural imperialism.

Nor have I. I have met a few who objected to being called "breeders."

But straight has always meant straight. Gay was an appropriation of a word that had a quite different meaning.

mariner
aeternum nauta

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