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detroitflyer
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Modi, Wins Indian Election

Fri May 16, 2014 5:22 pm

What does everyone think? Will he rid the country of corruption and usher in a new growth and make indian cities the next shanghai and beijing? Maybe improve the country enough that emigrants start returning enmasse?
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Fri May 16, 2014 6:08 pm

Quoting detroitflyer (Thread starter):
Will he rid the country of corruption

I'm sorry, but isn't that an unrealistic expectation? Corruption in India and many other places has existed for generations. Many layers of society depend on the income from bribes, rightly or wrongly. To show that it is not just India, just look at how shocked the Greeks were when they had no choice but to actually pay their taxes. Such behaviors do not change easily.

Quoting detroitflyer (Thread starter):
Maybe improve the country enough that emigrants start returning enmasse?

I did not follow the elections much, so I'm wondering if it was a goal of the candidates to get emigrants to return.
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PhilBy
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Fri May 16, 2014 6:33 pm

Quoting detroitflyer (Thread starter):
Maybe improve the country enough that emigrants start returning enmasse?

As many emigrants come to the western world, get jobs at western wages and then ship money back to India why would they want them to come back. It would be bad for the economy.
 
CPH-R
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Fri May 16, 2014 7:32 pm

More impressive is Congress getting annihilated. They've never had fewer than 100 seats in the Lok Sabha and now they're left with just 59 seats!
 
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golfradio
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Sat May 17, 2014 3:10 am

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 3):

So far 43 not counting their alliance partners. I am happy that it is this late than never. Rural India seems to have finally woken up to the divisive politics that this family dynasty has been propogating. In the name of secularism and being champions of minority rights, they have been sucking the country dry. In the last decade alone the size of the scandals that they have been running is staggering. The estimated profits for allotees in the Coal allocation scam was about USD 180 billion, the loss to the exchequer from the spectrum scam was estimated to be USD 5.3 billion.

The Nehru-Gandhi family is one of the reasons India still lags so many of it's Asian neighbors.
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comorin
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Sat May 17, 2014 5:43 am

I have been lurking in India for the last two years, and was initially horrified by the stranglehold corruption has in almost every aspect of daily life. I wonder if Western societies had to go through similar process (Tammany Hall, etc) before moral indignation set in? There is little comfort that India's neighbors China and Pakistan are no less corrupt ( or dirty!)

Religion also plays a condoning role - after looting millions, you can always head to Tirupati (Top temple in India), donate gold and silver and come out fully redeemed.

Modi will contribute to the economic growth so badly needed for social stability in India, given the hundreds of millions of young job market entrants. But what India really needs is a moral reawakening, a rekindling of its post-independence idealism that was later crushed by Indira Gandhi.
 
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teme82
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Sat May 17, 2014 1:33 pm

What I hope is that the new goverment would also tackle the environment issues. I was in Delhi in December 2008 and the smog was terrible. The same smog was in Agra. The WHO display showed +300% small particle density from the recommended numbers...
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BarfBag
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Sat May 17, 2014 3:48 pm

I've been tremendously busy volunteering with the election effort the last two months. I'm so glad to see Modi win, and that too by a margin far more than any of us hoped for! As his slogan states, Sabka Saath, Sabka Vikaas (everyone together, progress together). For us BJP supporters, this is like a dream. We expected to win, but the margin utterly stunned us.

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 3):
They've never had fewer than 100 seats in the Lok Sabha and now they're left with just 59 seats!

They have 44 seats, not 59. The latter is the total for their coalition, the UPA. They went so far down that they don't even qualify to be the Leader of Opposition, which requires a single losing party to have at least 10% of the 543 elected seats in Parliament.

The BJP on the other hand, won 282 seats, more than the 272 seats needed to reach 50%. Their coalition, the NDA, has 337 seats, close to the 2/3rds functional majority mark needed to make major policy/constitutional amendments.

Another exciting change is how the casteist parties like BSP , the separatists and Communists have all been utterly decimated. Parties that depended on splitting the Hindu vote using caste politics have been destroyed by the BJPs constant 'unite and progress!' stance in the election. The BSP in fact won zero seats, which never happened before. BJP was the largest party in Jammu & Kashmir and the restive border state of Assam, as well as the 2nd largest in West Bengal, supplanting the decades long stranglehold of the Communists there.

I hope Modi dismantles the whole facade of the Gandhi dynasty and the network of power and patronage that sustains their odious hold over the country. Among other things, I hope he eliminates the use of the Gandhi name for public places; there's no need to name every airport and other place after some Gandhi or the other.
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Sat May 17, 2014 11:12 pm

Any thoughts on his foreign policy. Western think tanks are suggesting he is more comfortable with China/Japan/Korea. Chinese media seems to be very happy with his win.

There seems to be several relationships building up, some of which never thought of.

a) India wants China to deal with Pakistan, hence resolving India-Pakistan issues.
b) Afghanistan wants India/China/Russia to help with infrastructure/defense. Also China to deal with Pakistan.
c) Russia wants to diversify its O&G sales to China/India. Mitigate sanctions and loss of revenue from EU.
d) Israel wants China/India's help to deal with Iran.
e) Japan is getting closer to India to deal with China.
f) Brazil always goes along with China.

It appears every one want to put aside their conflicts i.e.,(China-India, India-Pakistan, Afghanistan-Pakistan, Israel-Iran) and move on with their lives.

Is this even possible? or every one high.
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CaliAtenza
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Sun May 18, 2014 3:11 am

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 7):

I've been tremendously busy volunteering with the election effort the last two months. I'm so glad to see Modi win, and that too by a margin far more than any of us hoped for! As his slogan states, Sabka Saath, Sabka Vikaas (everyone together, progress together). For us BJP supporters, this is like a dream. We expected to win, but the margin utterly stunned us.

my question to you is this; Will Modi and the BJP let go of the RSS and Ram Sene and other organizations of their ilk?
 
BarfBag
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Sun May 18, 2014 4:46 am

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 9):
my question to you is this; Will Modi and the BJP let go of the RSS and Ram Sene and other organizations of their ilk?

Ram Sene is not affiliated with the BJP. The RSS is a volunteer organization who serve the purpose of political mobilization at election time that's so critical to getting out the vote and pushing forward the BJP, who are their political wing. Whenever the RSS mobilizes for the BJP, the BJP has won, because the RSS is such a huge organization.
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Sun May 18, 2014 5:05 am

To anyone who read the Economist article on Modi in early April, the opinion of the Economist's editors directly mirrored my own. Basically: right policies, wrong person.

I am cautiously optimistic, but still have my doubts that Modi isn't too polarising a figure to really bring substantive change. Time will tell.

That said:

Quoting golfradio (Reply 4):
So far 43 not counting their alliance partners. I am happy that it is this late than never. Rural India seems to have finally woken up to the divisive politics that this family dynasty has been propogating. In the name of secularism and being champions of minority rights, they have been sucking the country dry

  

Congress needs to really wonder what it is the stand for, and if they can't come up with an answer then they deserve to die.
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CaliAtenza
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Sun May 18, 2014 7:15 am

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 10):

Ram Sene is not affiliated with the BJP. The RSS is a volunteer organization who serve the purpose of political mobilization at election time that's so critical to getting out the vote and pushing forward the BJP, who are their political wing. Whenever the RSS mobilizes for the BJP, the BJP has won, because the RSS is such a huge organization.

I'm talking about the extremist part of the RSS; the you know..lets turn India into a Hindu country first and all that hogwash.
 
BarfBag
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Sun May 18, 2014 7:48 am

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 12):
I'm talking about the extremist part of the RSS; the you know..lets turn India into a Hindu country first and all that hogwash.

There are no extremists in the RSS. Once again, they are a volunteer organization, NOT a religious one. You're talking about the Bajrang Dal or the Vishwa Hindu Parishad. Not the same thing as the RSS. Those are completely different entities. Confusing one for the other indicates lack of familiarity with what they are, at the least.

Every large political group has a large moderate organizational base, and the more extreme ends, who take on the extremists of the opposite political persuasion. That is the nature of how politics is conducted. The US system has attack dogs among the Democrats as well as the Republicans. Their job is valid as long as they focus on shouting down the other side's extremists; they ought to be reined in only when they direct their ire at the wrong party.

Modi has been the unquestioned boss of the BJP this time, and his position during the campaign has been unwaveringly focussed on governance and development for all, with absolutely no favors or special regard due to anyone. If one is good at what they do, they'd thrive under his system. If they depend on a reservation, handout or other show of appeasement or favoritism, they're in a world of trouble now.

The reason the Indian political system has been so reactively opposed to Modi is because they have for decades thrived on precisely the latter - a vast network of patronage built on according or refusing support on the basis of some narrow attribute of the person, not his ability or willingness to work hard to succeed. "Ooh you're a Dalit ? Here's some special treatment for you. You're a Muslim ? Poor thing, here's some special treatment for you." That sort of nonsense has kept India back for decades. Enough of it. The state should provide a minimum of such support based solely on economic need, and focus on teaching people to fish, not hand out rotten fishes to them, thanks to government inefficiency.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Sun May 18, 2014 8:48 am

Modi is seen as pro Industry.....He has been given the opportunity by majority of the country to do his bit....Im sure he will not goof up.
Hopefully Industry/economics remains the forefront news.
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CaliAtenza
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Sun May 18, 2014 9:05 am

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 13):

There are no extremists in the RSS. Once again, they are a volunteer organization, NOT a religious one. You're talking about the Bajrang Dal or the Vishwa Hindu Parishad. Not the same thing as the RSS. Those are completely different entities. Confusing one for the other indicates lack of familiarity with what they are, at the least.

i'm just hoping the Bajrang Dal and the VHP don't become more entrenched. I just got back recently, from living in India, and the social situation where these organizations were more prominent was just terrible. As a Hindu, i find it disgusting that there are even extremists in the religion itself.

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 13):
The reason the Indian political system has been so reactively opposed to Modi is because they have for decades thrived on precisely the latter - a vast network of patronage built on according or refusing support on the basis of some narrow attribute of the person, not his ability or willingness to work hard to succeed. "Ooh you're a Dalit ? Here's some special treatment for you. You're a Muslim ? Poor thing, here's some special treatment for you." That sort of nonsense has kept India back for decades. Enough of it. The state should provide a minimum of such support based solely on economic need, and focus on teaching people to fish, not hand out rotten fishes to them, thanks to government inefficiency.

I agree with you; but Modi is just one man, and he can't change things overnight, even if he means well. Obama couldn't even do it over here, even though he was elected twice. Realities of governing will set in...

To be fair though, many of those people were also held back by age old social norms. Even if they didn't get a handout and worked hard, there was no guarentee they would be accepted in society.

Quoting hawk21m (Reply 14):

Modi is seen as pro Industry.....He has been given the opportunity by majority of the country to do his bit....Im sure he will not goof up.
Hopefully Industry/economics remains the forefront news.

Lets hope so...but the runaway inflation may not be able to be stopped in the short term.
 
na
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Sun May 18, 2014 10:30 am

Religious and nationalistic. Two words which are in the way.

Modi will have to break up the blocked structures in state and business. He will have to find ways to lead India towards a society of greater fairness and participation of the majority of the people. How many have profited from the boom times of the first decade of the Millennium, 10%, 20%? Not more as I have heard from Indians who profited.

The good thing is that the disgraced old political elites have suffered a well-deserved crushing defeat. That is something our western so-called democracies need too. If a system exists too long without being shaken up from time too time, with the same group of people pulling the strings, call it democracy or not, its not a true democracy anymore. Its a lobbycracy. The 4- or 5-yearly vote is the pill for the common people, the rest is how to make the construction stronger where the elites can sit and enjoy life safe and sound.
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Sun May 18, 2014 3:37 pm

Dynasty and corruption were persistent issues, but I think final nail was cutting subsidies to poor rapidly over last year or so. They could have slowly cut when GDP was high, but they were sleep at the switch, they panicked when growth slowed.

Over last 10-15 years corruption went down a little, 20 years back a politician can be corrupt for lifetime, now with sprawling media outlet with every affiliation it is hard to hide, news will be out ending/stalling political ambitions.

20 years back one cannot get thru customs without paying bribe, now I see they are much professional and courteous.

There won't be uniform growth throughout the country, some states will do better than others, federal government only can create general framework. It is up to state leaders to take advantage.
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na
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Sun May 18, 2014 4:11 pm

Quoting dtw2hyd (Reply 17):
Over last 10-15 years corruption went down a little, 20 years back a politician can be corrupt for lifetime, now with sprawling media outlet with every affiliation it is hard to hide, news will be out ending/stalling political ambitions.

Thats true, when I was there over the last years there were always corruption scandals among the top news. In Bangalore in 2012 I was even the eye witness when the governor stepped down due to such scandal. By coincidence I was next to his residence when all the press rallied and he appeared in a column with more than 20 white cars full of staff declaring his resignation.
 
BarfBag
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Sun May 18, 2014 5:49 pm

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 15):
i'm just hoping the Bajrang Dal and the VHP don't become more entrenched. I just got back recently, from living in India, and the social situation where these organizations were more prominent was just terrible.

Well, as I mentioned, this time around Modi is clearly the leader of the party. In the Vajpayee days, clearly the Sangh Parivar saw itself as having a voice due to the Ram Janmabhoomi background. This time, things are very different. Modi is a lifelong RSS member, but has never been in VHP/BD . Old time VHP hardliners like Advani and Joshi have been sidelined well before the elections. After the Bihar bombing attack on his rally, Modi stridently asked the Hindu and Muslims who attended that rally "You can either fight each other and stay poor, or you can together work for your development. What do you want ?"

I think that powerful message resonated strongly enough for the Hindi belt wave - 71/80 seats in UP, 5/5 in Uttarakhand, 28/40 in Bihar, 26/26 in Gujarat, 25/25 in Rajasthan, 10/12 in Chattisgarh, 12/14 in Jharkhand. The Dalits and Yadavs deserted their traditional casteist parties and voted pan-Hindu with BJP. Even 17% of the Muslims voted BJP. People should stop arguing about Modi being divisive - he won a massive mandate by pushing unity. It's his opponents who all tried to split the vote with 'don't vote for him! we'll give you special treatment, he won't!'

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 15):
I agree with you; but Modi is just one man, and he can't change things overnight, even if he means well. Obama couldn't even do it over here, even though he was elected twice. Realities of governing will set in...

Modi is in a stronger position than Obama. He controls the executive AND the legislature. He not only has the ability to pass bills with simple majority, but also the ability to push constitutional amendments with 2/3rds attending majority. Plus, he has no official opposition because Congress has 44 seats and ADMK has 37; no one has the 55 seats needed. That means they have no seat on the panels debating bills and cannot mount an opposition there.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 15):
To be fair though, many of those people were also held back by age old social norms. Even if they didn't get a handout and worked hard, there was no guarentee they would be accepted in society.

That may have been valid in the 1950s, not today. There are no 'minorities' in India in the conventional sense - the smallest ones like Parsis and Jains are infact the richest. Pretty much every community has made massive visible progress - Sikh and Muslim presidents, major leaders and sportsmen, Bollywood is dominated by Muslims. Anyone arguing that in 2014 they need special treatment for any reason other than lacking money and access to education is spouting gas.

This was Modi's message, and clearly the mandate shows that the country at large supports him - this election broke the turnout record with 67% of the 815 million voters voting. As it works everywhere, when everyone mobilizes to vote, there's a strong united desire for change.
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Sun May 18, 2014 6:19 pm

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 19):
he has no official opposition because Congress has 44 seats and ADMK has 37; no one has the 55 seats needed. That means they have no seat on the panels debating bills and cannot mount an opposition there.

That's good for 'getting stuff done', but it isn't good for democracy. Having an official opposition is important.

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 19):

Hmm, interesting. Time will tell. As I said, I'm hesitant but acknowledge that you know a hell of a lot more than me on the subject!
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BarfBag
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Sun May 18, 2014 6:31 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 20):
That's good for 'getting stuff done', but it isn't good for democracy. Having an official opposition is important.

Not the BJP's fault. When a system is so rotten and despised by the public, the nature of a landslide against them throws up such odd blessings for the winner.

It would be good to see the Congress go back to being what they were - Indian nationalists with a left of center socialist political position, balancing the BJP's right of center free market stance. As it stands, the Congress is a Gandhi personality cult more suited to DPR Korea.

The BJP should avoid a witchhunt, but on the other hand must dismantle the patronage network that sustained the Nehru/Gandhi family and kick them out of any form of power. That family's prominence owes itself to having used every means, fair and foul, to restrict opposition both from other parties and from within, for 60 years. They suppressed Bose, Patel, SP Mukherjee, Rajagopalachari and several others who sought to restore the Congress to its original roots.
 
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WingsFan
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Mon May 19, 2014 5:42 am

It was great to see a resounding thrashing of the Congress party and its darling prince. The best part of this election is that Modi will not need to juggle awkward coalitions while trying to carry out his own vision. Whatever happens in the next 4 years, he now owns it completely. I just hope he manages to keep his own party in check and focused on the job at hand.
Even if he prove to be an average PM , the stability and cohesiveness of government for next few years will help the economy.
If he is anywhere close to what the brochure advertises, good days will surely come.

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RyanairGuru
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Mon May 19, 2014 5:51 am

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 21):
It would be good to see the Congress go back to being what they were - Indian nationalists with a left of center socialist political position, balancing the BJP's right of center free market stance. As it stands, the Congress is a Gandhi personality cult more suited to DPR Korea.

I agree 100%, and - as I said upthread - I am very happy to see Congress annihilated. The party stands for nothing other than maintaing power for the Ghandhi dynasty, a family that is only interested in power and money for family members. Congress had the potential to be a legitimate social democratic party in the post-market India, but that was never even remotely possible because of the throttle put on the party by the Ghandhi dynasty. Further, I absolutely support policies that free up the Indian economy to realise its potential, that has similarly been throttled by the Congress' incompetence and corruption (although BJP didn't do much to address those issues last time they formed government). For these reasons I am very happy to see Modi win the election, and - as I said in my first post - I am cautiously optimistic that this is a change for good. While I have some reservations, I will be delighted to be proven wrong over the next four years.
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BarfBag
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Mon May 19, 2014 4:36 pm

The previous BJP administration resulted in a drastic improvement in public finances. Loss making public sector enterprises began reporting profits. Several were privatized. Inflation and interest rates came down significantly, leading to a consumption boom. Investment as a percent of GDP rose from 23% to 34% . That rise in investment to East Asian levels drove the growth boom of the 2000s. If you look at the same statistic today. investment is down to 27-28% of GDP, which means the Congress in the last decade undid all the good work.

Why didn't they get re-elected then ? They forgot that large numbers of people were still destitute then. Patience and the public are not familiar friends. People were not willing to wait for growth to reach them, when it was tantalizingly in view. The Congress offered populist programs instead. They won, and then won again. This time around, they were utterly devastated because they forgot that you can't just divide a pie; you have to grow it as well. Instead of using the spoils of growth to feed populist policies, they ended up wrecking the growth, and leaving behind inflation instead of redistributed wealth.

Those familiar with American politics would see Modi as a classical Reaganite; the following US article makes a similar association: http://dailycaller.com/2014/04/14/is-india-about-to-elect-its-reagan/
 
CaliAtenza
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Mon May 19, 2014 6:33 pm

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 24):
The previous BJP administration resulted in a drastic improvement in public finances. Loss making public sector enterprises began reporting profits. Several were privatized. Inflation and interest rates came down significantly, leading to a consumption boom. Investment as a percent of GDP rose from 23% to 34% . That rise in investment to East Asian levels drove the growth boom of the 2000s. If you look at the same statistic today. investment is down to 27-28% of GDP, which means the Congress in the last decade undid all the good work.

Why didn't they get re-elected then ? They forgot that large numbers of people were still destitute then. Patience and the public are not familiar friends. People were not willing to wait for growth to reach them, when it was tantalizingly in view. The Congress offered populist programs instead. They won, and then won again. This time around, they were utterly devastated because they forgot that you can't just divide a pie; you have to grow it as well. Instead of using the spoils of growth to feed populist policies, they ended up wrecking the growth, and leaving behind inflation instead of redistributed wealth.

Those familiar with American politics would see Modi as a classical Reaganite; the following US article makes a similar association: http://dailycaller.com/2014/04/14/is-india-about-to-elect-its-reagan/

This is probably what India needs right now; but the question is...you can't lift all who are in poverty, out of poverty...at least not right now..and maybe not in 4-5 years even. It's gonna take time and Modi will have to continue the populist schemes.
 
BarfBag
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Mon May 19, 2014 6:51 pm

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 25):
It's gonna take time and Modi will have to continue the populist schemes.

No. One only needs to listen to the mandate sought to know his intentions - he'll continue with the template that worked so well in Gujarat - not populist, but enabling people with cheap access to education and skills development, combined with a focus on urbanization, heavy industry and infrastructure development .

That's the mandate he sought - he repeatedly stated that he doesn't want to provide handouts but wants to enable people and give them the means to compete and succeed. One of the biggest hurdles to development is lack of mobility and a rural existence. He sought to address that in Gujarat and stated during his campaign that it was his template for India.

Gujarat accounts for 5% of the population, 16% of the industrial output, and 22% of the $325 billion in annual Indian exports. It also reported near double digit agricultural output growth for a decade. That's quite a lot, considering Gujarat is a largely arid state with a huge tribal population, which means they have a harder time with human capital than places like TN or Maharashtra.

The younger generation are also different from their elders. They view receiving handouts with a sense of shame the older generation lacked, because the latter had been beaten down by decades of poverty and didn't have the luxury of pride. These younger folks are the ones who elected Modi - almost half of the 815 million on the electoral rolls (including me) were between 18 and 35.
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Mon May 19, 2014 8:58 pm

Fareed Zakaria had a theory about Congress and subsidies. Middle class looking for more opportunities than hand outs. Congress still stuck in third world governance mindset, wanted to control vote bank by giving/taking away subsidies. Didn't work this time.

Over last decade more than 100 Million Indian came out of poverty. If his theory is true its actually like shooting themselves in the foot. Bad for congress good for everyone else.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZdH94R6XwQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAR3cb1V_ss
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Nimish
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Tue May 20, 2014 4:56 am

I'm so glad all the pseudo secularists and scare-mongers were proven wrong and sent packing. We need a strong sense of national pride (not religious pride), and absolutely no pandering to any religion or community. The national pride is not based on jingoistic statements about the "sacrifices of the Gandhi family" but based on the progress we can make together. National pride is based on not needing handouts (through economic upliftment) - rather than the Congress's pride on handing out doles to keep the poor right there.

The nation has roundly and soundly thrown the Congress and even the AAP to the trashcan. AAP had a peculiar sense of "entitlement" without having done any real work and having thrown the Delhi govt away. I think Kejriwal needs a lesson in pragmatism and on "Bird in hand is better than two in the bush" - hopefully his party becomes the responsible opposition and plays a productive role here.

One thing that Modi could do is to "witch hunt" all the corrupt in the previous govt, and prosecute them - a little public action will go a long way in keeping his party men honest, and at the same time send a message that he's serious on corruption.

All in all - an absolute delight to be on the winning side, and to be able to finally hear the end of the pseudo-secularists who rejoice in perpetuating religious divisions/ sops.
Incredible India!
 
CaliAtenza
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Tue May 20, 2014 7:58 am

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 26):
No. One only needs to listen to the mandate sought to know his intentions - he'll continue with the template that worked so well in Gujarat - not populist, but enabling people with cheap access to education and skills development, combined with a focus on urbanization, heavy industry and infrastructure development .

That's the mandate he sought - he repeatedly stated that he doesn't want to provide handouts but wants to enable people and give them the means to compete and succeed. One of the biggest hurdles to development is lack of mobility and a rural existence. He sought to address that in Gujarat and stated during his campaign that it was his template for India.

Gujarat accounts for 5% of the population, 16% of the industrial output, and 22% of the $325 billion in annual Indian exports. It also reported near double digit agricultural output growth for a decade. That's quite a lot, considering Gujarat is a largely arid state with a huge tribal population, which means they have a harder time with human capital than places like TN or Maharashtra.

The younger generation are also different from their elders. They view receiving handouts with a sense of shame the older generation lacked, because the latter had been beaten down by decades of poverty and didn't have the luxury of pride. These younger folks are the ones who elected Modi - almost half of the 815 million on the electoral rolls (including me) were between 18 and 35.

50 percent of India's population is at or below poverty line. Are you seriously telling me that Modi can bring all of those people past the line in a really short amount of time? I know you are hopeful, but naive to think it can happen that fast. He needs the local politicians to get their asses in gear though. Not everyone can move to the cities all at once; if that happens, then every Metro needs to be expanded and rebuilt.

[Edited 2014-05-20 00:59:51]

[Edited 2014-05-20 01:03:15]
 
blueflyer
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Tue May 20, 2014 8:45 am

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 19):
People should stop arguing about Modi being divisive - he won a massive mandate by pushing unity.

Perhaps I see this with Western eyes, but the day after visiting Kashi Vishwanath temple, Modi should have at least paid a visit to a mosque, perhaps also a Christian church and a Sikh temple. It would have been a symbolic signal more effective than any word to demonstrate he will be the prime minister of all India. That he didn't take such an obvious step is, in my opinion, a willfully missed opportunity, and I remain unconvinced that he isn't going to be a divisive force. I think The Economist called it correctly still.

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 7):
They went so far down that they don't even qualify to be the Leader of Opposition, which requires a single losing party to have at least 10% of the 543 elected seats in Parliament.

So does it mean there is no official opposition, or is there some other process to designate one?

Quoting hawk21m (Reply 14):
He has been given the opportunity by majority of the country to do his bit....Im sure he will not goof up.

I hope he won't, but generally speaking, the higher the mandate, the higher the expectations. If he doesn't want to disappoint, not goofing up isn't going to be enough. He must deliver, and deliver well.

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 7):
Among other things, I hope he eliminates the use of the Gandhi name for public places; there's no need to name every airport and other place after some Gandhi or the other.

Not gonna happen. See the United States and Reagan for another example of an entrenched cult of personality. There may not be a new building named Gandhi, but the existing ones won't change their name.
 
BarfBag
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Tue May 20, 2014 1:40 pm

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 29):
50 percent of India's population is at or below poverty line. Are you seriously telling me that Modi can bring all of those people past the line in a really short amount of time?

The number is 22% .
http://articles.economictimes.indiat...endulkar-methodology-poverty-rates
the number of those below the poverty line declined to 21.9% of the population in 2011-12, from 29.8% in 2009-10 and 37.2% in 2004-05.
Your argument is also logically false - it presumes that handouts are a requirement. Wrong. 10 years of Congress rule buried that claim. Further, I'm not making a claim; I'm asserting what Modi has already done. He has had substantial success with his own methods, industrializing a largely arid and socially backward state to such an extent that it is an industrial powerhouse run more like a Chinese province, and they thrice voted him back into power by landslides, after which the whole country voted him in by an unprecedented landslide (more than half of those who voted were not born during Rajiv G's landslide). I'm sure you'd like to think differently, and you're welcome to email Modi's website with your suggestions too. But I don't see him changing his proven developmental tactics - the guy actually has well over a decade making his own methods work, and I don't see him changing.

As a precursor to the things to come, here's an article:
http://www.business-standard.com/art...-narendra-modi-114051901169_1.html
As the article above shows, he hasn't even been sworn in, and already is pushing the administrative service to come up with data explaining where projects are stalled, what it takes to get them moving, and what freedoms they need to get things moving faster. After 10 years of the Congress basically sitting on their asses and sucking thumbs, this is a huge change already.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 30):
Perhaps I see this with Western eyes, but the day after visiting Kashi Vishwanath temple, Modi should have at least paid a visit to a mosque, perhaps also a Christian church and a Sikh temple.

He already provided an answer for that for Indian ears, that should be just as useful for western ones:
“They (other politicians) can do anything for appeasement. I believe in respecting traditions of all religions. But at the same time, I have to respect my own tradition as well although I respect all traditions. I can’t hoodwink people by wearing such skull caps. But I believe in taking action against those who show disrespect to others”
That's the basis of his approach: "I am Hindu. I will follow my own traditions. I'm not going to go out of my way to recognize that someone else is Sikh, Jain, Muslim, Christian or whatever, and will respect them for what they are capable of and not who they are."

The west is used to being so PC that his hard nosed meritocratic approach is bound to be hard to swallow. On the other hand, I strongly support Modi. I hope he ignores such western PC nonsense and keeps that garbage FAR away. If I were in the west, I would not care about some western politician doing a folded hands namaste and using a couple of memorized Hindi words to me - I would see that as a smarmy political gesture that seeks to treat me as someone 'different' . I don't want such treatment - I would want to be recognized on the basis of what I can do, not what I look like or whom I pray to. That attitude is also what drove us young Indian voters, 410 million of whom were in the 18-35 group and enthusiastically voted Modi.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 30):
So does it mean there is no official opposition, or is there some other process to designate one?

Since no opposition party has 10% of the seats of parliament, while BJP has 52% and their alliance has 62%, the position of Leader of Opposition falls vacant. Not unprecedented - it's happened before during the governments of Nehru, Indira and Rajiv Gandhi. It's just never happened or even come close to happening in the living memory of more than half the country.

[Edited 2014-05-20 06:55:03]
 
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golfradio
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Tue May 20, 2014 2:50 pm

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 31):
The west is used to being so PC that his hard nosed meritocratic approach is bound to be hard to swallow. On the other hand, I strongly support Modi. I hope he ignores such western PC nonsense and keeps that garbage FAR away. If I were in the west, I would not care about some western politician doing a folded hands namaste and using a couple of memorized Hindi words to me - I would see that as a smarmy political gesture that seeks to treat me as someone 'different' . I don't want such treatment - I would want to be recognized on the basis of what I can do, not what I look like or whom I pray to. That attitude is also what drove us young Indian voters, 410 million of whom were in the 18-35 group and enthusiastically voted Modi.

Well said. The Indian population has been sliced and diced into every concievable demographic bucket by people who have no other interest than holding on to power. They espouse the cause of their own claimed demographic category by fear mongering and raising age old issues which are no longer relevant and true. And their half truths get echoed back and strengthened by mainstream media from across the world, further reinforcing these divides.

The absolute mandate that the BJP has got shows that there are no perceptible divisions in India and people no longer want to be categorized into demographic buckets. And they have rightly kicked the divisive rabble rousers to the curb. No one needs to be treated with kid gloves any more.
CSeries forever. Bring back the old site.
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Tue May 20, 2014 3:23 pm

Our trickle down economics should not be used to measure what % of Indian poor will come out of poverty. 100 Million were out of poverty over last decade. It is a great achievement by itself. If Modi can create opportunities, it will accelerate further.

India's strong family support structure has a major advantage, Indian parents are willing to skip a meal to send their kids to school.

I was surprised to learn on PBS about the very high employment rate in Mumbai slum. Apparently every able body works. With such aspirational society anything is possible.

Ever after 60 years of independence, Indians lack assertiveness, hope Modi promotes that culture. This is where India falls behind China.
All posts are just opinions.
 
BarfBag
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Tue May 20, 2014 4:38 pm

One of the most stunning things about this election was how Presidential it was. Usually people vote based on their narrow community and caste allegiances. There's little to no chemistry with the Prime Minister candidate. Who the local candidate is, matters, based on the breakdown of various castes etc. This time around, nothing but Modi mattered. Both I and many other volunteers dealt with people asking 'which button is for Modi ?', referring to the electronic voting machine buttons. That's it. They just didn't care who the local MP candidate was - they wanted to vote in Modi. We just told them happily to that it's the button next to the Lotus (the BJP's symbol).

As we joked, the BJP could have contested a parrot as a candidate and it might have won in some places - such was the groundswell of support to get Modi a large mandate. Despite that, we remained cautious until the results came out - unwilling to translate the massive excitement on the ground into a verdict prematurely. This is partly because the last time there was such a historic election, there was no such thing as opinion and exit polls in India. All but one of the exit polls vastly underestimated the landslide.

The BSP - the Dalit north Indian party who usually gets 20-25 MPs into every Parliament, got zero. Their party symbol is an elephant, which led to mass circulated Whatsapp/Twitter/FB jokes of the 'did you hear about the elephant who laid an egg ?' variety. The casteist Samajwadi Party lost badly too - the only ones elected were the party boss and his own family members contesting. The Congress was also decimated - the only Congress MPs from UP are Sonia and Rahul Gandhi themselves. Rahul came close to losing his seat, and probably will lose it next time. The party symbol jokes extended to the Congress as well, that the palm (their symbol) was being replaced with a facepalm...
 
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golfradio
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Tue May 20, 2014 6:02 pm

A small nagging concern that I have is that this golden opportunity of absolute majority and no opposition might not be used push through some much needed parliamentary reforms. India desperately needs to reform a lot of it's parliamentary procedures and statutes like candidacy, parliamentary privileges, removal of onerous procedures, stopping the ability of members to take the sessions hostage etc. The political system really needs to be cleaned.

Modi does not carry the baggage that Vajpayee had of placating the seniors members of BJP like Advani and MM Joshi. He also does not care much for the bureaucracy. So if there is one person and one time in history that some one can do something about this, it is Modi and it is now.
CSeries forever. Bring back the old site.
 
CaliAtenza
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Tue May 20, 2014 7:24 pm

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 31):

The number is 22% .
http://articles.economictimes.indiat...endulkar-methodology-poverty-rates
the number of those below the poverty line declined to 21.9% of the population in 2011-12, from 29.8% in 2009-10 and 37.2% in 2004-05.
Your argument is also logically false - it presumes that handouts are a requirement. Wrong. 10 years of Congress rule buried that claim. Further, I'm not making a claim; I'm asserting what Modi has already done. He has had substantial success with his own methods, industrializing a largely arid and socially backward state to such an extent that it is an industrial powerhouse run more like a Chinese province, and they thrice voted him back into power by landslides, after which the whole country voted him in by an unprecedented landslide (more than half of those who voted were not born during Rajiv G's landslide). I'm sure you'd like to think differently, and you're welcome to email Modi's website with your suggestions too. But I don't see him changing his proven developmental tactics - the guy actually has well over a decade making his own methods work, and I don't see him changing.

As a precursor to the things to come, here's an article:
http://www.business-standard.com/art...-narendra-modi-114051901169_1.html
As the article above shows, he hasn't even been sworn in, and already is pushing the administrative service to come up with data explaining where projects are stalled, what it takes to get them moving, and what freedoms they need to get things moving faster. After 10 years of the Congress basically sitting on their asses and sucking thumbs, this is a huge change already.

well 22 percent is a LOT better than what i was thinking it was...so that's good news  . The reason that i'm skeptical is that its India; and Indian politics. For many years, BJP, Congress, and whatever other party have just been two faces of the same dirty coin. I'm hopeful Modi can do something, but there are powerful forces that do like the status quo. The bigger question is, can what Gujarat did be replicated elsewhere?
 
DIJKKIJK
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Tue May 20, 2014 8:45 pm

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 36):
The bigger question is, can what Gujarat did be replicated elsewhere?

That is going to be Modi's biggest challenge.

Gujarat has been a reasonably well governed part of India, and was so even before Modi. It is easier to get things done when the governance is good.
The problem is going to be with the problem areas of India, viz, UP, Bihar, MP, Haryana, Chattisgarh, Jharkand and Orissa, which account for nearly 60% of the country's population. Modi will have to work hard to ensure that there are some real positive changes to the governance and quality of life in these places to be able to replicate the Gujarat model all over India.

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 13):
Ooh you're a Dalit ? Here's some special treatment for you. You're a Muslim ? Poor thing, here's some special treatment for you." That sort of nonsense has kept India back for decades. Enough of it. The state should provide a minimum of such support based solely on economic need, and focus on teaching people to fish, not hand out rotten fishes to them, thanks to government inefficiency.

Are you implying that Modi is all set to do away with reservations and quotas? Has he mentioned that anywhere?
I feel that he will be committing harakiri if he even suggests that.

[Edited 2014-05-20 13:46:29]
Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
 
CaliAtenza
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Wed May 21, 2014 12:41 am

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 37):
Are you implying that Modi is all set to do away with reservations and quotas? Has he mentioned that anywhere?
I feel that he will be committing harakiri if he even suggests that.

It's not gonna happen; you cannot change India overnight; as much as it needs to happen, it won't happen. This is what people, even those who voted for Modi and the BJP, need to understand. It will be a gradual change. Also, what the BJP did in Karnataka has kind of turned me off to them. The government was corrupt and useless and the CM at the time, was and is a horrible person. I don't know how he won his seat again, but it happened. If Modi can get rid of the bums in his own party, then i'll know he's the real deal. If not, then its just a different face of the same coin...
 
BarfBag
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Wed May 21, 2014 12:51 am

Quoting golfradio (Reply 35):
A small nagging concern that I have is that this golden opportunity of absolute majority and no opposition might not be used push through some much needed parliamentary reforms.

I don't think constitutional reforms will be his immediate priority. He'll take on them once he has consolidated power in Rajya Sabha as well. Despite characterization, Modi isn't a loud ideologue; he's an administrative genius. If you follow his history in Gujarat, he seldom acts without thinking through and disarming opposition first, and then proceeds to act swiftly. Many constitutional actions need 2/3rds upper and lower house voting. He has the latter, but not yet guaranteed the former.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 36):
The bigger question is, can what Gujarat did be replicated elsewhere?

The answer to that is to wait and watch. 550 million people just voted telling him "go on, do your Gujarat act for India." It is unnecessary to second guess him right now. He's days away from even taking oath and is doing all the right things so far.

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 37):
Are you implying that Modi is all set to do away with reservations and quotas?

No, I'm not implying that, and his actions have little to do with that. The dirty secret of the quota system is that it's lost its original meaning long ago. It is today a tool of patronage to be used to give a demographic group the incentive to vote for a divisive party, or reward them for doing so. Doing so is called 'secular', and those who call out such actions are called 'communal', for daring to take away the largesse entitlements.

Modi's imperatives so far have been to make the whole thing irrelevant by repeatedly stating one word - development. He just destroyed the Dalit, Yadav and Muslim votebanks of all the 'secular' parties. More Dalits voted with their fellow Hindus for BJP than those voting for their caste party, the BSP. BJP won 24 of 25 constituencies where Muslims account for 25% or more of population. The guy basically upended decades of caste-based voting calculations and voting patterns.

I don't think he'll do something as stupid and controversial as abolish quotas; he'll just do more of what he's done now - make people forget that they need quotas to get ahead, and drive high investment and growth, build out roads, rail, towns, increasing connectivity rapidly and bringing the spoils of growth to people quicker, instead of the Congress handout culture. The urbanized population tends to vote BJP, and it is in his interest to increase that demographic any way he can, as quickly as he can.
 
blueflyer
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Wed May 21, 2014 8:09 am

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 31):
I am Hindu. I will follow my own traditions. I'm not going to go out of my way to recognize that someone else is Sikh, Jain, Muslim, Christian or whatever, and will respect them for what they are capable of and not who they are.

I'm actually not comforted by that statement and I even find it contradictory. On the other hand, his speech in parliament was quite encouraging.

I do wish Modi well. India deserves a politician like him if he is true to form, but I can't help but notice parallels between the campaign slogans of Modi and the BJP on the one hand, and Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and the AKP on the other. Modi isn't necessarily doomed to become another Erdoğan, far from it, but history does inform the judgement.

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 31):
Not unprecedented - it's happened before during the governments of Nehru, Indira and Rajiv Gandhi.

I actually think that the lack of official opposition is good news. It isn't necessary for democracy, many countries have no concept of official opposition and yet their allegiance to democracy is undisputed. With all opposition parties being equal, perhaps one can stand out and provide both a credible alternative to Congress and a loyal opposition to the BJP in ways that would not have been possible if Congress had officially been designated as the leader of the opposition. Listening to the news, it is painfully clear that Congress is unable or unwilling to draw the appropriate conclusions from their defeat, which makes it all the most important for Modi to succeed, because if not the BJP, then who?

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 31):
If I were in the west, I would not care about some western politician doing a folded hands namaste and using a couple of memorized Hindi words to me

I think Westerners are able to spot such nonsense quite well. When David Cameron visits a mosque, no one expects him to get on his knees and start praying in Arabic. Attendance at a service, without participation, or alternatively meeting with recognized leaders of the other faiths, is enough to show that a prime minister recognizes many of his constituents have a different religion and that he intends to respect their religious freedom. No need to turn that into a comedy.

[Edited 2014-05-21 01:15:20]
 
BarfBag
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Wed May 21, 2014 1:46 pm

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 40):
I'm actually not comforted by that statement and I even find it contradictory.

Indian politics is mature enough to offer several voting alternatives - the Congress being the most notable - to someone like you who desires more active minority appeasement from a politician, as opposed to someone who treats any action involving faith as his personal business and not a publicity opportunity. I don't go to a mosque or church to make my Muslim or Christian friends feel better about me, and neither should Modi.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 40):
I actually think that the lack of official opposition is good news. It isn't necessary for democracy

I find these references to the lack of a Leader of Opposition constituting 'less democracy' either misinformed or patronizing. Do Americans consider a House or Senate where one party has enough seats to avoid a filibuster as 'lack of democracy' ? I've never seen such statements about a decisive house/senate majority, yet you judge whether we are or are not sufficiently democratic. A mandate to lead is earned. A mandate to oppose is also earned. Neither is an entitlement.

The Leader of Opposition is not a constitutional post but an artifact of parliamentary procedure. It confers certain privileges in the form of seats in panels. It is also not statutory; the Lok Sabha Speaker can waive the 10% requirement and pick the largest individual opposing party as LoOp.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 40):
is enough to show that a prime minister recognizes many of his constituents have a different religion and that he intends to respect their religious freedom.

Modi's position has been that he's not going to recognize anyone's individual demographic bucket. He is himself a backward caste, who sought and won votes from both the entire spectrum of upper, mid and lower castes, in addition to other religious groups. His right hand man, Amit Shah, is a Jain - India's smallest religious minority.

You're unfamiliar with the tone of Modi's campaign. It rewrote several prevalent narratives of how politics is conducted. Indian politics has for long lived on the explicit recognition and appeasement of various demographic buckets. Modi rewrote that by resolutely refusing to accord any recognition, and treating every gesture of faith as his own personal business. You on the other hand, espouse the politics of recognition of old, that Modi's incredible campaign consigned to the dustbin. Whether Cameron or Obama do something else is their prerogative. The Indian people of every background have already spoken about what they think of Modi's approach by uniting to vote for him through a landslide mandate.
 
upwardfacing
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Sat May 24, 2014 6:49 pm

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 21):
It would be good to see the Congress go back to being what they were - Indian nationalists with a left of center socialist political position, balancing the BJP's right of center free market stance.

Actually, one of the criticisms of the BJP is that it has not had a truly free market stance--at least in relation to those in other countries. I guess if one looks at this within India's historically socialist context, then things could look different.

From what I have read, here have been various attempts at building a liberal, free-market political party in India since the 1960s, but none have gained much traction. To be fair, recent history would suggest that both major parties have made some movement in freeing up the Indian economy when in power, but with limitations.

Indeed, it seems that subsidies, state-owned companies, and self-reliance are integral to Indian economic thinking. It would be a pleasant surprise to see change on these fronts.

Despite the change in leadership, it will be interesting to see how they can manage factions within the ruling party, lawmaking with the upper house of parliament not controlled by the same party, and relations with the various state governments, to where much decision-making has devolved.
 
BarfBag
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Sat May 24, 2014 7:00 pm

There's no such thing as a single definition of free market politics . In India the BJP is the free market party and has ideological ties to the original one - the Swatantra Party. The BJP today has the demographic critical mass to make its policies work without having to conpromise on the altar of redistributive politics to the extent it had to previously. Yet it still did far more for the cause of lean and smaller government in those five years than the Congress ever did.
 
CaliAtenza
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Sat May 24, 2014 7:28 pm

BarfBag, its all well and good that Modi is saying the right things and has good plans to take the country forward; but its up to the individual BJP elected officials, at the state, local and national level, to put it into practice. He can't be everywhere at once. Just look at what happened in Karnataka when the BJP took over; it was a total shitshow down there. Yeddyruppa is an awful person, and yet, he won his seat again. That to me just seems retarded beyond belief. People who have been corrupt all their lives, don't suddenly change overnight unless they are kicked out of the party.
 
upwardfacing
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Sat May 24, 2014 7:48 pm

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 43):
n India the BJP is the free market party and has ideological ties to the original one - the Swatantra Party.

The BJP has ideological ties to other organisations and movements as well, some of which may well contradict those ties to the Swatantra Party you mention.  

It's not just the redistributive features you mention, which is not just an ideological cause. For obvious, urgent fiscal reasons I do think observers will be carefully watching movement on the subsidy and disinvestment issues. The role of the state remains enormous.

One other aside I'll mention is that the new leadership's aspiration for a greater role on the world stage may contradict the traditional orientation toward self-reliance, and indeed resistance to foreign trade and investment, expressed across Indian politics, including even the BJP. It may be residual, but it is still present.

One thing India's great neighbour has shown (and to which Indians like to compare themselves) is that its standing on the world stage has skyrocketed not only because of its immense economic growth and greater ability to project military power, but also because of the increasing dependence of other countries on that growth. It's a relational issue.
 
BarfBag
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Sat May 24, 2014 9:11 pm

Caliatenza: your constant skepticism of Modis abilities is noted   Considering such skepticism is being repeatedly stated even before Modi has been sworn in, I find it motivated. Now I don't expect you to see him as a vision of hope like I do, but I'll first give him a fair shot of 5 years and THEN talk. What you state are issues everyone faces when ruling India, yet one particular person was chosen in a very unprecedented manner.

upward facing: interesting points but largely academic, ie a debate of ideological purity of origin, as opposed to one of Modis record itself. Modis BJP is not Vajpayees BJP, or the Jana Sangh/Swatantra Party BJP . Modi controls the party in a way even Vajpayee could not dream of . He ran the campaign the way he chose. He pushed Joshi out of Varanasi and Advani out too. He vetoed cabinet appointment lobbying by others. In effect the BJP has deferred to his vision; any discussion of what the BJP was is therefore pointless. Modi ran Gujarat in a way no one else did before in India. If you want a template the nearest one i can think of is Deng Xiaoping, not anyone in India before.
 
CaliAtenza
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Sun May 25, 2014 3:31 am

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 46):
Caliatenza: your constant skepticism of Modis abilities is noted   Considering such skepticism is being repeatedly stated even before Modi has been sworn in, I find it motivated. Now I don't expect you to see him as a vision of hope like I do, but I'll first give him a fair shot of 5 years and THEN talk. What you state are issues everyone faces when ruling India, yet one particular person was chosen in a very unprecedented manner.

its not my skepticism of Modi so much as the other people....the people at the local and state level. They all have to play ball with him right, and if they dont, and do their own thing....the same situation will continue. I don't know where you are from in India, but i lived in Bangalore during the majority of BJP rule and it was terrible. The government litterally got nothing done and the CM was a corrupt a-hole, basically.

Now if that is going to be the bellweather for BJP rule elsewhere, including at the national level, then you can see why i'm a skeptic. I hope Modi can clean house within the BJP and set it right; then he will have success.
 
BarfBag
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Sun May 25, 2014 6:09 am

And yet the BJP won all the urban Bangalore constituencies and 17/28 for the state, their best ever. Logically that suggests the people at large disagree with you, or consider the other choices worse. Even Nilekani lost despite spending money like it was water.

Karnataka's long term problem is that they often vote against the national trend and the centre therefore punishes the state by cutting off support . Gujarat also faced the same problem and Modi spent a decade being hounded by the central attack dogs. Karnataka had no Modi of its own. But they did have lots of easy money thanks to Bangalore (and yes I've lived there for 5 years) .

This time Karnataka voted with the centre . Yediyurappas return was Modis work, because he know Yedi had what it took to win, and he was right. Modis actions must be seen from the context of arthashastra. The leader must first do what it takes to win, and then do what it takes to rule. Both have their share of unpleasant choices that must be made.

Americans try to compare with Obama to temper expectations of Modi. But Obama was a neophyte compared to Modi, and lacked the latter's long record of governance. Obama was just a junior senator thrust above his competence level. Modi is a three time governor of one of the most dynamic industrial states of India.
 
CaliAtenza
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RE: Modi, Wins Indian Election

Sun May 25, 2014 11:16 pm

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 48):
This time Karnataka voted with the centre . Yediyurappas return was Modis work, because he know Yedi had what it took to win, and he was right. Modis actions must be seen from the context of arthashastra. The leader must first do what it takes to win, and then do what it takes to rule. Both have their share of unpleasant choices that must be made.

I think Yediyurappa is a swarming a-hole, but hey clearly the people voted for him know something i don't lol. But as long as he does the work needed to lift up the state, i'll hold my nose.

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 48):

And yet the BJP won all the urban Bangalore constituencies and 17/28 for the state, their best ever. Logically that suggests the people at large disagree with you, or consider the other choices worse. Even Nilekani lost despite spending money like it was water.

If the people considered the other choices worse, its probably a good thing  .

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