Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
DeltaSRQ
Topic Author
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:32 am

Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Wed May 28, 2014 1:43 am

http://news.yahoo.com/pregnant-pakis...stoned-death-family-163143284.html

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/W...-to-death/articleshow/35636065.cms

Farzana Parveen was stoned to death by her family outside a courthouse in Pakistan for marrying a man without her family's consent. Her father called it an "honor killing".

The article says there were reportedly 869 women murdered in Pakistan in honor killings in 2013. Perhaps I'm naive but I was shocked that the number was so high. Very sad situation, I'm sorry to hear that this happens so frequently in today's world.
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Posts: 14195
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Wed May 28, 2014 1:46 am

I cannot say anything really, I would be banned if I expressed my true feelings.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
romeobravo
Posts: 1440
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:37 pm

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Wed May 28, 2014 1:53 am

Sickening
 
User avatar
fr8mech
Posts: 8146
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Wed May 28, 2014 11:40 am

Quoting DeltaSRQ (Thread starter):
Farzana Parveen was stoned to death by her family outside a courthouse in Pakistan for marrying a man without her family's consent. Her father called it an "honor killing".

Yeah, I read that yesterday. Really, I have no words that can express my feelings toward these actions. But, what can we do? It really is up to the peoples of those countries to take up the fight. I guess we can write a strongly worded protest to the UNHRC...yeah, that'll do it.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 1):
I cannot say anything really, I would be banned if I expressed my true feelings.

It really is a shame that when you call a spade a spade, you're sanctioned, but those are the rules that we agreed to.

Oh, and I forgot...wanted to add this to the mess:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/meriam-i...sy-reportedly-gives-birth-in-jail/

[Edited 2014-05-28 04:44:21]
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. ~B. Murray
Ego Bibere Capulus, Ut Aliis Sit Vivere
 
vc10
Posts: 1436
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2001 4:13 am

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Wed May 28, 2014 11:51 am

Apparently under this county's law probably no one will be punished, as it was her relatives who carried out the act and as long as her relatives forgive them then the guilty party will go free or at least with a minimum penalty. This is what I read so perhaps someone can confirm this
 
zrs70
Posts: 3778
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2000 4:08 am

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Wed May 28, 2014 12:55 pm

And people here so often rally against Israel for being the worst offender of human rights on the planet.
21 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2021
 
User avatar
fr8mech
Posts: 8146
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Wed May 28, 2014 1:04 pm

Quoting vc10 (Reply 4):
Apparently under this county's law probably no one will be punished, as it was her relatives who carried out the act and as long as her relatives forgive them then the guilty party will go free or at least with a minimum penalty. This is what I read so perhaps someone can confirm this

I read this the same way. So, this happens with the tacit agreement of the government. Disgusting.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. ~B. Murray
Ego Bibere Capulus, Ut Aliis Sit Vivere
 
Stealthz
Posts: 5558
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:43 am

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Wed May 28, 2014 2:57 pm

Perhaps Elliot Rodger should have emigrated to one of the (cultural descriptor deleted) paradises of Pakistan or Sudan where murderous misogyny seems to be a state enshrined right!
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!....well that might have changed!!!
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 12968
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Wed May 28, 2014 2:59 pm

Quoting DeltaSRQ (Thread starter):
The article says there were reportedly 869 women murdered in Pakistan in honor killings in 2013.

It's shocking, and truly sad. However it highlights the true dangers of fervent religious fundamentalism and it's effects within a society. If these folks can call murder "Honor", it opens the door for a lot of other misguided actions such as terrorism. With the numbers this high, it shows there is a rather high density of this sad behavior, and it is probably no surprise why Pakistan has issues beyond comprehension in dealing with terrorism and unrest within their borders.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
solarflyer22
Posts: 1517
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:07 pm

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Wed May 28, 2014 3:28 pm

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 5):
And people here so often rally against Israel for being the worst offender of human rights on the planet.

No they're not. But Israel has consistently tried to paint Iran as the worst offender in the world as a political maneuver in the West to advance their interests. I've been to Iran several times with relatives there and its hardly North Korea or Pakistan IMO. We totally reject any comparisons of us to Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, North Korea etc. etc.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 8):
The article says there were reportedly 869 women murdered in Pakistan in honor killings in 2013.

Correct. The number of women killed/stoned in a single year in Pakistan actually exceeds the people executed in Iran by about 250. Iran is cutthroat and ruthless, not totally savage and barbaric. When there is a occasional stoning in Iran, its normally because the government has lost control of a remote village not a mob scene in front of a court house as happened here.

The US needs to focus less on whose a rival power and more on who is actually causing the most amount of suffering. I don't think that's Iran by a long shot. All of your "friends" in the Middle East are feeding you BS.
 
PanHAM
Posts: 9719
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Wed May 28, 2014 3:56 pm

What is even worse is, that in Germany and probably in other European countries, such criminals get a "rebate" when on Trial.

In Wiesbaden, a Muslim who was born and raised in Germany killed his pregnant girlfriend because she not only refused to convert to Islam but also inisted that the child would be raised Christian.

Which is the mother's decision BTW in Germany and the father has no right to Change that. Pity that the Courts turn down 500 years of enlightenment and civil rights and label such killings as religiously based "custom".
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Wed May 28, 2014 5:08 pm

This headline stunned me yesterday.

My fist thought was ask why we let these people in this country? Hopefully, attitudes towards honour killings are investigated during the immigration interview. They should include Sharia law too.
 
ImperialEagle
Posts: 2372
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:53 am

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Wed May 28, 2014 5:41 pm

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 15):
Are you sure of this ?

Well, it hasn't been too long since I read an article on it. BBC? I will do some research as time allows today and see what links I can provide you.
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
ozglobal
Posts: 2597
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:33 am

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Wed May 28, 2014 5:47 pm

Whilst the distinction between the religion and the traditional tribal practices may be a valid one, nonetheless, Islam, being more of a collective system of practices than an individually held faith, seems more than any religion to block the progress of cultural toward the recognition of individual dignity and individual liberty of conscience. So,even if Islam doesn't directly call for these practices, it is the world's safest Harbour for them.
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
User avatar
pvjin
Posts: 3586
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:52 pm

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Wed May 28, 2014 5:56 pm

What a peaceful bunch of people ordinary Muslims in countries like Pakistan are. I bet our leftist parties would love to take all those people involved in stoning here to enrich our culture by giving it more diversity.

I hope a huge wave of rationalism will continue spreading all over Europe with rise of right wing parties that don't support the idea of destroying our continent by filling it with people who support this kind of an ideology.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
BN747
Posts: 7934
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Wed May 28, 2014 10:16 pm

Quoting stealthz (Reply 7):
Perhaps Elliot Rodger should have emigrated to one of the (cultural descriptor deleted) paradises of Pakistan or Sudan where murderous misogyny seems to be a state enshrined right!

Although you joke...you should see the House of Saud (on YT) .. these guys exist by the millions. They are Religious fanatics with a license.

Quoting NAS679A3W (Reply 10):

A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority



HA! I wouldn't call millions in the Islamic world that are okay with this any kind of minority, they are teaching their kids and spreading this ignorance. See Lara Logan's Egyptian experience.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 12):


In Wiesbaden, a Muslim who was born and raised in Germany killed his pregnant girlfriend because she not only refused to convert to Islam but also inisted that the child would be raised Christian....
....Pity that the Courts turn down 500 years of enlightenment and civil rights and label such killings as religiously based "custom".

That's amazing... and perfect grounds for separation of Church and State.

But even here in America we have religious nut jobs trying to push religious influence into the courts..but Libs will see to it that that never happens!

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
Ken777
Posts: 10149
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Wed May 28, 2014 10:30 pm

If they mad a mandatory death sentence for all those throwing stones the problem might be reduced Especially if there were public group hangings. That might also satisfy the "honor" of the original victim.
 
sfbdude
Posts: 194
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:57 pm

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Wed May 28, 2014 11:23 pm

Maybe I missed it but, what exactly does this have to do with Islam?
 
ArmitageShanks
Posts: 3780
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 5:30 am

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Wed May 28, 2014 11:39 pm

What a wonderful culture.
 
BN747
Posts: 7934
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Thu May 29, 2014 12:37 am

Quoting SFBdude (Reply 17):


Maybe I missed it but, what exactly does this have to do with Islam?

Ummm because it was carried out in accordance with their Islamic beliefs? Because when the courts declared no one would be punished.. the court, the Islamic Courts. not Buddhist Court, not Taoist Courts, but Islamic Court took side and gave full on approval to the disgusting actions.

That kind of message spreads like wild fire in the minds of the ignorant. And that is a very ignorant cultural tradition, belief or whatever drove those people to commit the heinous act.

Looking forward to the day all religion is viewed for what it is... archaic enhanced superstition.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
AyostoLeon
Posts: 745
Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 3:09 pm

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Thu May 29, 2014 1:06 am

How sad that this woman has been so brutally taken. My commiserations to her husband.

This murder, for that is what it was, had nothing whatsoever to do with "honour" and if a report in the Guardian is to be believed, little to do with religion. It seems it was all to do with money. The parents had been trying to exact money from the husband and when he refused to cough up , the parents (for want of a better word) decided to deprive him of the "goods".

As I say, there was nothing honourable about this cowardly and brutal attack. Twenty men (for want of a better word) attacking a pregnant woman! All because of pride and greed.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ed-to-death-family-agreed-marriage

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 5):
And people here so often rally against Israel for being the worst offender of human rights on the planet.

Really? I hadn't noticed. An offender, maybe. But the worst?

Interesting that there is no expression of sympathy for the victim and her husband. It's all about Israel. What is this obsession with Israel? Condemn a murder by all means but why capitalise upon it for propaganda purposes?

Quoting BN747 (Reply 19):
Because when the courts declared no one would be punished..

This matter hasn't even gone to court, so you are jumping the gun. The husband clearly wants the murderers prosecuted and

Quote:
Iqbal said his wife's killers would not escape justice as he was her next of kin and only he had the right to waive punishment.


May it be so.
The person with no dignity eats his dinner twice
 
BN747
Posts: 7934
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Thu May 29, 2014 1:20 am

Quoting AyostoLeon (Reply 20):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 19):
Because when the courts declared no one would be punished..

This matter hasn't even gone to court, so you are jumping the gun

Then why was she killed right in front of the Courthouse?

What....the officers on duty were too busy eating popcorn will enjoying from row views?

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Posts: 14195
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Thu May 29, 2014 1:26 am

You have to know that they turned a blind eye to this atrocity. They are as guilty as the family. Madness from madmen, and often from the women. Is not a court house for justice? Perverted justice obviously in Pakistan.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
AyostoLeon
Posts: 745
Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 3:09 pm

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Thu May 29, 2014 1:48 am

Quoting BN747 (Reply 21):
Then why was she killed right in front of the Courthouse?

The murder has not been dealt with by the courts. I would hardly expect the court to issue a verdict of murder before a murder took place.

What was she doing at court? Parveen was due to appear in the high court in an effort to quash a case brought by her parents, who alleged Iqbal had kidnapped her. He states that they had been legally married in another court. Parveen was murdered before she entered the court, possibly because the family feared that the ruling would go against them.

The fact that the event took place outside the court and the police did not intervene shows a complete break down in law and order.
The person with no dignity eats his dinner twice
 
sprout5199
Posts: 1681
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 8:26 am

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Thu May 29, 2014 2:07 am

Islam the peaceful religion. Honor Killings, better than the KKK, why kill a stranger, kill a family member. And people wonder why the US has a saying, Kill them all, let God sort it out. Dan in Jupiter
 
DeltaSRQ
Topic Author
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:32 am

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Thu May 29, 2014 2:11 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
But, what can we do?

Sadly I don't think there is much we can do. I read that Pakistan doesn't sanction these killings but most are done without witnesses and are hard to prove/prosecute. Her father was arrested in this case since it was done publicly and he confessed.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
Oh, and I forgot...wanted to add this to the mess:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/meriam-i...jail/

Very sad situation as well. Was she living in Sudan with her husband or was she residing in the states and had to return to her trial? Can't find any information on that, just curious.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 21):
Then why was she killed right in front of the Courthouse?

She and her husband were on their way to court to contest an abduction case her father filed against her husband.
 
BN747
Posts: 7934
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Thu May 29, 2014 2:33 am

Quoting AyostoLeon (Reply 23):
Parveen was murdered before she entered the court, possibly because the family feared that the ruling would go against them.

I see...this must be the only nation on earth no law enforcement personnel on duty...even rent-a-cops. With the rampant bombings, attacks and threats made on judges...it's hard to believe none were present.

Quoting DeltaSRQ (Reply 25):

She and her husband were on their way to court to contest an abduction case her father filed against her husband

Got that.. but if you beat someone to death in front of my home, and I watch, don't bother calling 911...in a civilized mind, I'm just as culpable.

Quoting AyostoLeon (Reply 23):

The fact that the event took place outside the court and the police did not intervene shows a complete break down in law and order.

No it doesn't .. it shows a society that is still stuck in honoring long standing cultural traditions. Law and order is the last thing I think of when it comes to Pakistan.

Have I ever been? No.

Do I wanna go? No.

Why not? I've traveled enough to know a place that falls into the 'pushing your luck' category, I'd take my chances in Libya first.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
sfbdude
Posts: 194
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:57 pm

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Thu May 29, 2014 11:26 am

Quoting BN747 (Reply 19):
Ummm because it was carried out in accordance with their Islamic beliefs? Because when the courts declared no one would be punished.. the court, the Islamic Courts. not Buddhist Court, not Taoist Courts, but Islamic Court took side and gave full on approval to the disgusting actions.

That kind of message spreads like wild fire in the minds of the ignorant. And that is a very ignorant cultural tradition, belief or whatever drove those people to commit the heinous act.

Looking forward to the day all religion is viewed for what it is... archaic enhanced superstition.

ummm... This has to be an attempt at flamebaiting... The only part of your post that is factually correct is the fact that this was purely a cultural thing. This had nothing to do with religion what so ever. EVEN if they said it was their religious duty to carry this out, which isn't even the case here, than that would be based on their own made up religion and not Islam. As far as Ialmic laws go, no courts or even governments exist, today anyways, that have these fully implemented into their system. Picking and choosing what fits these government's agenda and then considering themselves to be an " Islamic court/country" is, again, factually incorrect.
 
StarAC17
Posts: 3967
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Thu May 29, 2014 2:21 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 26):
Got that.. but if you beat someone to death in front of my home, and I watch, don't bother calling 911...in a civilized mind, I'm just as culpable.

Evil is allowed to triumph when good men do nothing.

There is no argument that 99.99% of Muslims are good a decent people. However their unwilling to condemn these actions and in some situations sympathize with the perpetrators while never even considering doing the same thing enables the act.


Quoting BN747 (Reply 15):
But even here in America we have religious nut jobs trying to push religious influence into the courts..but Libs will see to it that that never happens!

It really should be the conservatives doing waving that flag the loudest (well any conservative I would support).

The biggest difference that actually stops the religious right in the US and other western countries from not acting in a very similar manner is the fact that those countries are secular democracies and thankfully isn't tolerated.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 19):
Looking forward to the day all religion is viewed for what it is... archaic enhanced superstition.

As do I!!
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
solarflyer22
Posts: 1517
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:07 pm

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Thu May 29, 2014 2:30 pm

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 22):
You have to know that they turned a blind eye to this atrocity. They are as guilty as the family. Madness from madmen, and often from the women. Is not a court house for justice? Perverted justice obviously in Pakistan.

I mean whose really on the moral hook for turning a blind on this one? Pakistan or the United States, Israel and the West? Pakistan at least is a developing, poor, uneducated, relatively new Islamic country but I saw as much coverage in yesterday's US news about Iran summoning Mark Zuckerburg to court over Facebook privacy.That report wasn't even factually correct. There was hardly even a condemnation from the State Department or Samantha Power, the UN rep on a public stoning just days after women's rights week. All because Pakistan is a "ally" of the West and not hostile toward Israel?

More amazing is that the US sends foreign aid to Pakistan. The US sends $1.5Billiion, the Saudi's send even more and fund the hardcore Wahabi Islamic schools. And let's not forget that Pakistan also is not a NPT signatory and has nuclear weapons. But Iran is the "Axis of Evil" and is sanctioned instead of getting foreign aid? Nice 'friends' you've chosen in the Middle East. lol
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 22117
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Thu May 29, 2014 3:15 pm

So we turn back to our country where members of a certain party want religious beliefs to trump all laws.

Which would make this behavior perfectly legal.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Thu May 29, 2014 3:24 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30):
So we turn back to our country where members of a certain party want religious beliefs to trump all laws.

Which would make this behavior perfectly legal.

Really. Sometimes I wonder how somebody typing this flamebait can be so educated.

So, please give one example of US Christians proposing stoning women for marrying a man the family does not approve.

Please. Just one.
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 22117
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Thu May 29, 2014 3:37 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 31):
So, please give one example of US Christians proposing stoning women for marrying a man the family does not approve.
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/201...-sasse-absolute-religious-liberty/

"Government cannot force citizens to violate their religious beliefs under any circumstances." (emphasis mine)

"Any circumstances" includes stoning someone to death because "it's my religion."

And I did not say "Christians." But "Christians" in the US have advocated stoning other people, like gays. I should know; I like to keep tabs on the people who want me dead.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 14010
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Thu May 29, 2014 5:43 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 10):
What is even worse is, that in Germany and probably in other European countries, such criminals get a "rebate" when on Trial.

Not in France, where such things (pretty rare or even unheard of, in Germany I believe you get this with Turks, we don't have many Turks here) would be treated as hate crimes on top of murder.

And there is a discussion right now (quite ridiculous in my opinion) of creating a new crime, femicide, since apparently homicide isn't appropriate for the murder of a woman.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
BN747
Posts: 7934
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Thu May 29, 2014 7:25 pm

Quoting SFBdude (Reply 27):
As far as Ialmic laws go, no courts or even governments exist, today anyways, that have these fully implemented into their system. Picking and choosing what fits these government's agenda and then considering themselves to be an " Islamic court/country" is, again, factually incorrect.

Hold on, am I missing your meaning?... I mean does Iran officially call itself - the Islamic Republic of Iran? Or not?

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
solarflyer22
Posts: 1517
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:07 pm

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Thu May 29, 2014 9:11 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 34):

Hold on, am I missing your meaning?... I mean does Iran officially call itself - the Islamic Republic of Iran? Or not?
BN747

That doesn't even make sense. Yeah, Iran's an Islamic Republic but so is Afghanistan even after being "liberated" by US forces. You're point is kind of meaningless though as stonings are exceedingly rare in Iran, hardly the 869 per year in Pakistan and certainly not right in front of a court. There are no Sharia courts in Iran either.

Pakistan is also officially an "Islamic Republic" technically. When they say "Islamic Republic" they don't mean a nation state or republic built on top of Islam. They mean a democratic republic BOUNDED by Islam and values. Not a secular liberal democracy in other words. That's very different. Pakistan and Afghanistan are both Democracies with elected officials but they are also Islamic Republics. Nor does it mean a society based on Sharia Law like the Taliban or Boko Haram.

Afghanistan Listeni/æfˈɡænɨstæn/ (Pashto/Dari: افغانستان, Afġānistān), officially the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan
 
ImperialEagle
Posts: 2372
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:53 am

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Fri May 30, 2014 12:25 am

This trash got convicted for killing his wife because she made him lentils for dinner instead of goat.
Under what set of circumstances would this old fool think this sort of thing would get glossed-over?
Perhaps he though for a moment he was still in Pakistan? The court seemed to think he knew exactly what he was doing.

Here's a link to the story in today's NY Post;

http://nypost.com/2014/05/29/man-con...fe-who-didnt-make-goat-for-dinner/
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
DeltaSRQ
Topic Author
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:32 am

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Fri May 30, 2014 12:43 am

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 36):
Here's a link to the story in today's NY Post;

http://nypost.com/2014/05/29/man-con...fe-who-didnt-make-goat-for-dinner/

Absolutely unbelievable, what a pointless death. Glad to see the courts found him guilty.
 
Stealthz
Posts: 5558
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:43 am

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Fri May 30, 2014 12:45 am

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 36):
This trash got convicted for killing his wife because she made him lentils for dinner instead of goat.................
......The court seemed to think he knew exactly what he was doing

His defence!!

Quoting NYPost:
Clark had argued earlier that Hussain “comes from a culture where he thinks this is appropriate conduct, where he can hit his wife.”

This is what I don't understand about lawyers(cue. all the anet legal eagles explaining their profession.. again) how can anyone in a civilised society even justify using that as a defence?
Happily the court disagreed and he got the verdict he deserved.
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!....well that might have changed!!!
 
BN747
Posts: 7934
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Fri May 30, 2014 1:11 am

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 35):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 34):

Hold on, am I missing your meaning?... I mean does Iran officially call itself - the Islamic Republic of Iran? Or not?
BN747

That doesn't even make sense. Yeah, Iran's an Islamic Republic

Absolutely it does, he said Islamic laws have no governments...apparently it does.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
AyostoLeon
Posts: 745
Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 3:09 pm

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Fri May 30, 2014 2:07 am

Perhaps what SFBdude is driving at is that Islam itself prescribes no particular form of government. Neither Qur'an nor Hadith provides clear instructions on what political institutions should be established. Over time various forms have evolved. So a government can be a monarchy, a military dictatorship, or even a version of democracy and still claim that the laws enacted are guided by Islam. In this sense Islam can be said to be a belief in nomocracy (based on the rule of Divine Law) rather than theocracy based on the rule of a priesthood or church.

Of course, how far a government lives up to any Islamic ideal, if at all, depends on who you ask and on whose interpretation of Islam you regard as authoritative.

[Edited 2014-05-29 19:09:39]
The person with no dignity eats his dinner twice
 
solarflyer22
Posts: 1517
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:07 pm

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Fri May 30, 2014 2:46 am

Quoting SFBdude (Reply 27):
As far as Ialmic laws go, no courts or even governments exist, today anyways, that have these fully implemented into their system.

Assuming this the quote, SFBdude is right. He said Islamic laws and courts, not Islam as a religion.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 39):
Absolutely it does, he said Islamic laws have no governments...apparently it does.

I'll put it in terms even FoxNews fans can understand. Israel is a Jewish state but its courts and laws are not jewish per se. Pakistan is kind of the same, different religion. Iran is not as the clerics actually rule,
 
BN747
Posts: 7934
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Fri May 30, 2014 2:58 am

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 41):
I'll put it in terms even FoxNews fans can understand. Israel is a Jewish state but its courts and laws are not jewish per se. Pakistan is kind of the same, different religion. Iran is not as the clerics actually rule,

And it still doesn't make, why?

Because what's on the books and what is practiced are two different things. We've Judges here place the 10 Commandments in their courts (as well as in their heads) and filter it in their exacting jurisprudence. Don't tell me that some religious fart over there isn't bringing his 'interpretation of Islam' with him as he presides over some unsuspecting soul..particularly if it's a non-believing westerner. That's how it plays out in real life...of which real people are affected.

You act like there's some divisive barrier to personal beliefs/interpretations exist to keep religiously bias from the process.. it all depends on just who is it you land before in the courtroom.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Posts: 14195
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Fri May 30, 2014 3:13 am

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 29):
I mean whose really on the moral hook for turning a blind on this one?

These people of this religion come to the West such as here, and live here for years and still occasionally try to commit such atrocious crimes. I do not think it is us myself. I think it is them.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
sfbdude
Posts: 194
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:57 pm

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Fri May 30, 2014 3:17 am

Quoting BN747 (Reply 34):

What Iran calls itself has no meaning in regards to the point of my post, so yes, I think you misunderstood. Hell, look at Saudi Arabia. They should be a leading example of what an Islamic state should be but they're nothing short of an embarrassment to Muslims. The whole point of my post was to distinguish the difference between what is culturally accepted and what is Islamically accepted. When governments give cultural practices/values priority over religious ones, then there is no place for people to bash the religion as was wrongfully done here.

This story could easily have been that the daughter was stoned to death because she wanted to marry someone outside of what her family has chosen for her simply because he was from a poor family or from a family of skilled tradesmen vs a family of doctors or whatever and people would STILL find a way to bash Islam. If you or anyone else for that matter have a hard time realizing that, unfortunately there isn't much more for me to say.
 
solarflyer22
Posts: 1517
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:07 pm

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Fri May 30, 2014 1:57 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 42):
You act like there's some divisive barrier to personal beliefs/interpretations exist to keep religiously bias from the process.. it all depends on just who is it you land before in the courtroom.

Yes, that's true. We see that even in the US Supreme court where you can see most decisions split 5/4 on partisan lines.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 43):
These people of this religion come to the West such as here, and live here for years and still occasionally try to commit such atrocious crimes. I do not think it is us myself. I think it is them.

I don't know anyone in the US that's done that though I know there was a case in Canada and London. Obviously, its wrong wherever it occurs.

Quoting SFBdude (Reply 44):
This story could easily have been that the daughter was stoned to death because she wanted to marry someone outside of what her family has chosen for her simply because he was from a poor family or from a family of skilled tradesmen vs a family of doctors or whatever and people would STILL find a way to bash Islam.

Yes, that's true. Iran is Islamic religously, not culturally, so you see major differences in behavior. You'll note the mother that recently exonerated her son's murderer at the gallows recently.

It will take time for the these places to move past "eye for an eye" but it will take centuries not decades. You need everyone to move in from the villages to the cities, get a good public education, get connected to the rest of the world and then it will just fade away. We've seen that in Turkey, its underway in Iran and it will eventually reach these places too.
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Posts: 14195
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Sat May 31, 2014 1:09 am

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 45):
I don't know anyone in the US that's done that though I know there was a case in Canada and London. Obviously, its wrong wherever it occurs.

There was a case in the US where a man and his wife were convicted of murdering their daughter. It was chilling to hear, they broadcast the screams on TV. They did not like her Western ways. The police received a tip from the US government, they had a tape of the girl being murdered in cold blood. Unknown to the maniac parents, their house was bugged by the government for possible terrorism ties. There was a legal, and moral issue about how the tape was obtained. The Father was sentenced to life without parole, and damned if he did not die after a short time in prison. Personally I hope he met justice from his fellow prisoners. The Mother was sentenced to a lessor amount of time. I believe we have had others also.

[Edited 2014-05-30 18:25:04]

[Edited 2014-05-30 18:27:34]
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
PHX787
Posts: 7892
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Sat May 31, 2014 4:53 pm

I mean it's bad an all but what can be done? A rogue state that allows their domestic violence cases to escalate like this really can't be helped.
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
QANTAS077
Posts: 5197
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:08 pm

RE: Pregnant Pakistani Woman Stoned To Death

Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:04 am

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos