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planemaker
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Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Wed May 28, 2014 3:47 am

Very neat development by Google to create a 2-person "mobility app.liance". They are building 100 prototypes in Detroit. They are electric powered and can be summoned by a smart phone.

http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Self-Driving-Car-795x420.jpg

Here are a couple of articles from the New York Times

Google’s Next Phase in Driverless Cars: No Brakes or Steering Wheel

The Google Car Takes a Step Away From Boring



In the NYTimes article there is a video showing the car touring a parking lot that includes the blind guy that was in the first Google self driving car video that was on CNN a couple of years ago.

Potentially disruptive technology, to state the obvious...

Quote:
The researchers found that Manhattan’s 13,000 taxis made 470,000 trips a day. Their average speed was 10 to 11 m.p.h., carrying an average of 1.4 passengers per trip with an average wait time of five minutes.

In comparison, the report said, it is possible for a futuristic robot fleet of 9,000 shared automated vehicles hailed by smartphone to match that capacity with a wait time of less than one minute. Assuming a 15 percent profit, the current cost of taxi service would be about $4 per trip mile, while in contrast, it was estimated, a Manhattan-based driverless vehicle fleet would cost about 50 cents per mile.
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DocLightning
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Wed May 28, 2014 6:30 am

This absolutely needs to become a thing.
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PhilBy
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Wed May 28, 2014 7:38 am

Can you imagine any politician voting to allow a new technology that instantly creates 13000 new jobless in one town.

I can see that these vehicles will mostly be summoned via stolen smartphone to a quiet location where they will be stripped for parts and scrap.
 
na
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Wed May 28, 2014 9:22 am

Fugly.



Filler



Filler
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Wed May 28, 2014 10:46 am

Quoting PhilBy (Reply 2):
I can see that these vehicles will mostly be summoned via stolen smartphone to a quiet location where they will be stripped for parts and scrap.

 

But the cars themselves will have a wireless data connection to the center. They would be laughable if they didn't equip the cars with laser gyros, GPS devices, and a black box.

But it's ugly like the Fiat 7002 helicopter:




David
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PhilBy
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Wed May 28, 2014 10:59 am

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 4):
But the cars themselves will have a wireless data connection to the center.

Which will be just so effective once you drop a faraday cage over it or put it in an earthed container

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 4):
They would be laughable if they didn't equip the cars with laser gyros, GPS devices, and a black box.

Which will fetch good prices on the black market.
 
Scruffer
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Wed May 28, 2014 11:53 am

Quoting PhilBy (Reply 5):
Which will be just so effective once you drop a faraday cage over it or put it in an earthed container

Wouldn't a normal metal shipping container do nicely? No need to bury it or alter it in any way.


I have always thought that the driver-less car from Google is an interesting concept, can't wait for this to become common place for normal cars.
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Wed May 28, 2014 11:58 am

I look forward to the further maturity of the technology.

Quoting planemaker (Thread starter):
Potentially disruptive technology, to state the obvious...

A much needed disruption. Really, the auto industry has been stagnant for decades. No real innovation, just adaptation.

Quoting PhilBy (Reply 2):
I can see that these vehicles will mostly be summoned via stolen smartphone to a quiet location where they will be stripped for parts and scrap.

React, adapt, react, adapt.

I can certainly see some privacy concerns popping up over how the vehicle is tracked and who has access to the data.

But, I agree with Doc, this needs to 'become a thing' .
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
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comorin
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Wed May 28, 2014 1:28 pm

Au contraire! This will not stand! An insult to the magical city on the Hudson, the city of dreams.


But this car is perfect for Williamsburg, Brooklyn.

I can see locals putting on their Google Glasses, hopping in and moseying over to the weekend farmers market for some fresh kale.
 
dc9northwest
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Wed May 28, 2014 1:57 pm

Hell yeah.

Driverless cars are the most revolutionary invention after the internet. One piece of technology I'm looking forward to, not useless crap like "smart"phones.
 
planemaker
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Wed May 28, 2014 3:42 pm

Quoting Scruffer (Reply 6):
I have always thought that the driver-less car from Google is an interesting concept, can't wait for this to become common place for normal cars.

And it is not just Google. Every major auto manufacturer is working on it.

Volvo Car Group’s first self-driving Autopilot cars test on public roads around Gothenburg

Elon Musk has stated that the Tesla Model S will be the first production model to have an "autopilot" with 90% autonomy by 2016.
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casinterest
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Wed May 28, 2014 3:46 pm

What is the benefit of a driverless car over a bus or a train? I am not quite sure that these cars are really going to take off. they may nave a small niche like the Segway, but I don't think they will be ubiquitous.
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GrahamHill
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Wed May 28, 2014 3:54 pm

I really wonder who will be responsible in case of accidents. Google? The car manufacturer? The passengers?

Anyway, I love so much driving that I won't even bother with this. But I agree it will be useful for some people.
"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
 
mham001
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Wed May 28, 2014 3:57 pm

Quoting PhilBy (Reply 5):
Which will fetch good prices on the black market.

But everything in the car by that time will be ubiquitous, traceable and worth little.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 11):
What is the benefit of a driverless car over a bus or a train? I am not quite sure that these cars are really going to take off. they may nave a small niche like the Segway, but I don't think they will be ubiquitous.

It takes my wife 3 hours sometimes to ride a bus on a route that a car can travel in 20 minutes. think man, think.
 
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casinterest
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Wed May 28, 2014 4:05 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 13):
It takes my wife 3 hours sometimes to ride a bus on a route that a car can travel in 20 minutes. think man, think.

That's not the issue. Your wife will be able to drive that in 20 minutes with a car that has acceleration, and she has control over. These driverless cars do not have real benefit. They will have a high cost, and one that will be defeated by cheaper driver options. Think man, think.
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mham001
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Wed May 28, 2014 4:52 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 14):
That's not the issue. Your wife will be able to drive that in 20 minutes with a car that has acceleration, and she has control over. These driverless cars do not have real benefit. They will have a high cost, and one that will be defeated by cheaper driver options. Think man, think.

What? You asked an entirely different question...

Quoting casinterest (Reply 11):

What is the benefit of a driverless car over a bus or a train?

Jeez, give me a wall to beat my head, the idiocy around here is killing me. Nevermind my earlier statement, thinking can be hard on you.
 
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casinterest
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Wed May 28, 2014 4:55 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 15):

Jeez, give me a wall to beat my head, the idiocy around here is killing me. Nevermind my earlier statement, thinking can be hard on you.

Not nearly as hard as it is on you.

These are designed for low speed urban use.
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planemaker
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Wed May 28, 2014 5:05 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 16):
These are designed for low speed urban use.

They are merely the first iteration of vehicles with NO driver controls - steering wheel, brakes, etc. Google has had a fleet of autonomous vehicles traversing California's freeways for several years... over 700,000 miles traveled with no accidents.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
mham001
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Wed May 28, 2014 5:09 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 16):
Not nearly as hard as it is on you.

These are designed for low speed urban use.

Yes, they are. And so? What exactly is your point?
 
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casinterest
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Wed May 28, 2014 5:31 pm

Quoting planemaker (Reply 17):
They are merely the first iteration of vehicles with NO driver controls - steering wheel, brakes, etc. Google has had a fleet of autonomous vehicles traversing California's freeways for several years... over 700,000 miles traveled with no accidents.

Not on the freeways without drivers in the seats.

These vehicles are only for low speed urban traffic, and quite honestly won't make the cut for a lot of cities due to the nature of the roads.
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flyingturtle
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Wed May 28, 2014 5:33 pm

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 12):
I really wonder who will be responsible in case of accidents. Google? The car manufacturer? The passengers?

With a constant and high-frequency LIDAR mapping of the space around the car, accidents should not happen - theoretically. The car readily detects any other vehicle. But I wonder how the car will deal with stuff like being trapped on a railway crossing. While a human driver can demolish the barriers (they are frangible), the autonomous vehicle will possibly just sit there and do nothing.

Wikipedia is silent on the question of accident liability. It will be extremely difficult to operate such an UAV ("unmanned" autonomous vehicle) in a reckless manner because of all the safeguards built in. So the owners should be shielded in the great majority of cases.


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DocLightning
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Wed May 28, 2014 5:47 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 11):
What is the benefit of a driverless car over a bus or a train? I am not quite sure that these cars are really going to take off. they may nave a small niche like the Segway, but I don't think they will be ubiquitous.

1) Two streams of autonomous vehicles with centralized control could cross through an intersection without stops or signals just by staggering the arrival of the vehicles. No more stop signs or traffic lights.

2) Driverless cars can hold precision tracks, meaning that current five-lane highways could add an extra lane.

3) Driverless cars can drive at high speeds almost bumper-to-bumper, further increasing freeway capacity and decreasing congestion.

4) Driverless cars have never been involved in an accident due to computer error. The accident rate will drop precipitously. Now, the sorts of accidents that do happen might be different and sometimes the car will find itself in a "no-win" situation, but these will be very rare compared to driver-caused accidents today.

5) Many people will no longer need to own a car and can simply use one of the driverless fleet on demand. Although I'm sure there will remain a market for privately-owned vehicles (like I would need, given my commute).

6) It would be even easier to use electric vehicles, since you could drive to work, and then send your car off to a charging station somewhere to recharge before it comes back to pick you up to go home.

7) You can go to the bar, get blind drunk, and not have to worry about driving home.

This technology has the capacity to revolutionize the way we live. The way I envision it getting started is with special reserved lanes for autonomous vehicles on the freeway, much as there are special lanes for carpools and EVs today. That would be a strong inducement for people to purchase these vehicles. As the technology is adapted, it would slowly become ubiquitous.

As someone with a 50 mile one-way commute to work, the idea that I could just sit back and relax and let the computer do the driving (without traffic jams and stoplights) is very appealing to me.
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casinterest
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Wed May 28, 2014 6:04 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 21):

And all of this is perfect world utopian switchover that happens instantaneously.

It would never happen in real life, because you would need the human element , there would be drivers,bicyclists, pedestrians , buses going without the automation, and even in a perfect world congestion causes collisions. You would have construction, potholes, landslides , thunderstorms, fog, streetlamps out, sandstorms, dust storms, fires , parades, protests , and many other problems. The technology needed to overcome this, will not be worth the hassle and the costs to most folks.

Perhaps your 50 mile drive would necessitate such a vehicle, but that kind of technology is probably 25 years out. at least.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Wed May 28, 2014 6:57 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 11):
What is the benefit of a driverless car over a bus or a train? I am not quite sure that these cars are really going to take off.

 
I've never lived in an area where public transportation was feasible. I definitely look forward to this technology
 
mham001
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Wed May 28, 2014 7:12 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 21):

The charging issue can be solved with the solar roadway in the news last week and wireless charging. The future looks very exciting.

It took my wife 3 hours and 15 minutes to travel less than 20 miles through the heart of the 10th largest city in the US by train and bus last week. That includes a 40 minute walk to where she can get a bus on Sunday morning. Usually, it only takes 2 hours and 50 minutes at that time, but she didn't have proper change and missed a connection. 20 minutes by car. Even during high commute with express buses running, it takes over an hour. By car during high commute, 30 minutes. I now believe that most of those harping about mass transit have little experience with it.
 
BN747
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Wed May 28, 2014 7:19 pm

All nice and danday...but will it (unlike Prius drivers) yield (move over to the right/slow lane) to Google cars that wish to go faster?

..my only beef.

Or must everyone drives the same speed?

BN747
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MD11Engineer
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Wed May 28, 2014 7:59 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 11):
What is the benefit of a driverless car over a bus or a train? I am not quite sure that these cars are really going to take off. they may nave a small niche like the Segway, but I don't think they will be ubiquitous.

First, one can take as much luggage wit one as fits into the car, one is not limited to what one can carry on one's back or in one's hands. Secondly, the car will go directly from A to B, no waiting times or connections involved. Plus a car of one's own gives a certsin amount of privacy (no otherpassengers yacking away on cellphones or farting etc.)

Mind, it would not be my preference, I like to be in control, but I have a blind friend, who would like to have the additional mobility a driverless car would give to her. She could e.g. get into her car in Berlin and visit me here on the far side of Germany, without having to spend a whole day in the train and needing somebody to guide her through unfamiliar train stations.

Jan
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planemaker
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Wed May 28, 2014 8:29 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 19):
Not on the freeways without drivers in the seats.

These vehicles are only for low speed urban traffic, and quite honestly won't make the cut for a lot of cities due to the nature of the roads.

It should be obvious that Google's first iteration of the 'no driver controls' vehicle is not meant for all roads. As a prototype it is very narrowly defined... by design. The car design is immaterial as Google has already proven with their fleet of autonomous cars that have driven over 700,000 miles all over California's streets and highways.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 22):
It would never happen in real life, because you would need the human element , there would be drivers,bicyclists, pedestrians , buses going without the automation, and even in a perfect world congestion causes collisions. You would have construction, potholes, landslides , thunderstorms, fog, streetlamps out, sandstorms, dust storms, fires , parades, protests , and many other problems. The technology needed to overcome this, will not be worth the hassle and the costs to most folks.

Google has already shown that it is happening in real life... over 700,000 driving miles worth of proof. And Volvo is also proving it starting this year with a fleet of 100 autonomous Volvos.
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Aesma
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Thu May 29, 2014 8:47 am

More and more French people work hundreds of Km away from home, thanks to a combination of low number of work hours, flexibility, telework, and high speed train. I hate commuting so I chose to work a couple Km from home, but if I had a car that could drive itself, I might be tempted by a cheaper, bigger home with a big garden, and more commute time, spent on the internet or working, while the car does the driving.
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Birdwatching
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Thu May 29, 2014 10:30 am

Quoting casinterest (Reply 11):
What is the benefit of a driverless car over a bus or a train?

Seriously, you fail to see the most obvious advantage of this concept. A bus or train runs on a set route while a driverless car will take you exactly where you want to go.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 21):
4) Driverless cars have never been involved in an accident due to computer error. The accident rate will drop precipitously. Now, the sorts of accidents that do happen might be different and sometimes the car will find itself in a "no-win" situation, but these will be very rare compared to driver-caused accidents today.

Exactly my opinion. I'm sure there will be lots of accidents that wouldn't have happened with regular cars, I can picture a huge variety of situations where this car is essentially a death trap.

But at the same time, there will be thousands and maybe millions of accidents that won't happen any more. Think of all the drunk driving, road rage, misjudging young drivers, old people, ...
So if you do the math, it will be much safer.

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flyingturtle
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Thu May 29, 2014 11:02 am

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 29):
So if you do the math, it will be much safer.

And perhaps installing such a LIDAR system for 360 degree vehicle/obstacle awareness would be great, already in conventional cars. Autobrake in case of danger.

Such a system showing off its capabilities:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZGPz4a2mCA


David
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planemaker
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Thu May 29, 2014 1:35 pm

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 29):
I can picture a huge variety of situations where this car is essentially a death trap.

A huge variety? A death trap?

Interested to hear more.  
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fr8mech
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Thu May 29, 2014 2:22 pm

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 29):
I can picture a huge variety of situations where this car is essentially a death trap.

And the current vehicle/human interface is not?

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 29):
So if you do the math, it will be much safer.

When the technology is mature AND we reach a point where there are enough 'driverless' cars on the road to be statistically significant.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 30):
Autobrake in case of danger.

A good friend has this system installed and he's cautiously optimistic about it. He has felt the system activate when he felt there was no danger. He is a police officer and tends to be a little more aggressive on the road, and that probably has a bit to do with it.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
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casinterest
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Thu May 29, 2014 2:49 pm

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 29):
Seriously, you fail to see the most obvious advantage of this concept. A bus or train runs on a set route while a driverless car will take you exactly where you want to go.

How many of you out there have ever paid attention to how well Google maps really works? There are a ton of technical hurdles to overcome, and at the end of it, what is the real benefit?

ESPECALLY when the same technology can be applied to a bus or train? In reality it would be much more efficient to have a circle line mini bus running around neighborhoods and transporting you to bus stations than for everyone to go buy a 25 mph electric car that will have to compete in an open air environment where people sometimes have to park on the curbs, avoid tires , and potholes, dirt roads, cobbled driveways ,grass driveways, iced driveways and still be able to comfortably reach where they are going.

Quoting planemaker (Reply 27):
It should be obvious that Google's first iteration of the 'no driver controls' vehicle is not meant for all roads. As a prototype it is very narrowly defined... by design. The car design is immaterial as Google has already proven with their fleet of autonomous cars that have driven over 700,000 miles all over California's streets and highways.

700, 000 miles is not really that far in the grand scheme of things, but it is a start.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 26):
Mind, it would not be my preference, I like to be in control, but I have a blind friend, who would like to have the additional mobility a driverless car would give to her. She could e.g. get into her car in Berlin and visit me here on the far side of Germany, without having to spend a whole day in the train and needing somebody to guide her through unfamiliar train stations.

And this goes back to my original point. It will be a niche vehicle. Not a ubiquitous, as it will be cost prohibitive and not optimal for many people.
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max999
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Thu May 29, 2014 3:11 pm

I’m curious as to how well these cars will operate in a mixed driving environment…meaning there will be automated cars and human-driven cars on the roads at the same time. I read an article which says the programming for the automated cars is conservative so it drives very defensively.

Now that style of driving is fine in a light traffic environment like suburban Silicon Valley. But I bet that the conservative programming would completely fail in a place like Midtown Manhattan during rush hour. I think the street chaos and unpredictability would completely befuddle the programming; the car would just stop in its tracks, unable to figure out the decisions needed to drive. This is be the ultimate test of an automated car.

[Edited 2014-05-29 08:14:33]
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DocLightning
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Thu May 29, 2014 3:12 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 22):
And all of this is perfect world utopian switchover that happens instantaneously.

Nope. It can be phased in gradually. Already companies are working on marketing vehicles that do 90% of the driving for you. They have cars that park themselves. It's actually already here.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 22):

It would never happen in real life, because you would need the human element , there would be drivers,bicyclists, pedestrians , buses going without the automation, and even in a perfect world congestion causes collisions.

Nope. You think the people at Google are idiots who didn't think about this?

The cars exist. They have been driving around my neighborhood for years. They have never hit a pedestrian or crashed. My dog ran out in front of one and it stopped (and much faster than any human driver could have reacted). They just cannot be sold. They have already tackled every "impossible" hurdle you have mentioned.

You are so emotionally opposed to this that you are claiming that it is impossible when, in fact, it already exists.

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 29):
But at the same time, there will be thousands and maybe millions of accidents that won't happen any more. Think of all the drunk driving, road rage, misjudging young drivers, old people, ...
So if you do the math, it will be much safer.

It could become as safe as--or safer than--flying.
-Doc Lightning-

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mham001
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Thu May 29, 2014 3:31 pm

Quoting max999 (Reply 34):
Now that style of driving is fine in a light traffic environment like suburban Silicon Valley.

I'd take Manhatten. If you have ever driven Santa Clara Valley, you'd know it is chock full of Type A aggressive drivers. Manhattan is sane enough to ride a bicycle in traffic, at least. And where do you get this "light traffic environment"? Thats pretty funny.

Tesla expects to be 90% autonomous in 2016.

[Edited 2014-05-29 08:32:22]
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Thu May 29, 2014 3:34 pm

Quoting max999 (Reply 34):
Now that style of driving is fine in a light traffic environment like suburban Silicon Valley.

Spoken like someone who has never been in Silicon Valley. The traffic is not "light."
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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planemaker
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Thu May 29, 2014 3:37 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 33):
than for everyone to go buy a 25 mph electric car

It has already been stated several times... these are prototypes that can go much faster than 25 mph (that should be obvious) but have been limited to 25 mph for now.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 33):
And this goes back to my original point. It will be a niche vehicle. Not a ubiquitous, as it will be cost prohibitive and not optimal for many people.

Most of the tech is already standard on many cars. Volvos is selling the 100 autonomous cars they are putting on the road this year.

Quoting max999 (Reply 34):
Now that style of driving is fine in a light traffic environment like suburban Silicon Valley. But I bet that the conservative programming would completely fail in a place like Midtown Manhattan during rush hour. I think the street chaos and unpredictability would completely befuddle the programming; the car would just stop in its tracks, unable to figure out the decisions needed to drive. This is be the ultimate test of an automated car.

It is actually not difficult.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 35):
The cars exist.

     

I am always intrigued why people on here post 'declarative' statements without doing a basic search about something they have no or very limited knowledge about. Especially when the links are often provided to them and they still don't bother investigating.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 37):
Spoken like someone who has never been in Silicon Valley. The traffic is not "light."

  
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Thu May 29, 2014 3:39 pm

Quoting planemaker (Reply 38):
I am always intrigued why people on here post 'declarative' statements without doing a basic search about something they have no or very limited knowledge about. Especially when the links are often provided to them and they still don't bother investigating.

It's what I call the "ain't no such animal" phenomenon. Put a camel in front of a man and he'll still claim it doesn't exist.
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Thu May 29, 2014 3:45 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 36):
I'd take Manhatten. If you have ever driven Santa Clara Valley, you'd know it is chock full of Type A aggressive drivers. Manhattan is sane enough to ride a bicycle in traffic, at least. And where do you get this "light traffic environment"? Thats pretty funny.

It's not the number of cars, but it's the high level of unpredictable variables on a Midtown street makes any suburban road a light traffic environment. Double or even triple parking, delivery/messenger bikers (who behave much more aggressively than regular bikers), masses of pedestrians who cross mid-block and against the light, loads of taxis weaving in and out for passengers, etc. I could go on and on.

While these things happen everywhere, I believe the sheer number of these variables in Manhattan streets make it especially challenging for automated cars which are programmed conservatively. Even human drivers who drive defensively have trouble here.
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Thu May 29, 2014 4:00 pm

On the other hand the automatic car can look all around at all times, so it can decide to continue to drive (probably slowly) where a human would have stopped to assess the situation.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
mham001
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Thu May 29, 2014 4:10 pm

Quoting max999 (Reply 40):
It's not the number of cars, but it's the high level of unpredictable variables on a Midtown street makes any suburban road a light traffic environment. Double or even triple parking, delivery/messenger bikers (who behave much more aggressively than regular bikers), masses of pedestrians who cross mid-block and against the light, loads of taxis weaving in and out for passengers, etc. I could go on and on.

I used to deliver messages by bicycle in Manhattan. I'd take it any day, California traffic is more intense and much faster paced.

That makes no matter anyway, Google is well on their way to thoroughly refuting your angst. They already have, only with driver backups.
 
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Thu May 29, 2014 4:16 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 22):
Perhaps your 50 mile drive would necessitate such a vehicle, but that kind of technology is probably 25 years out. at least.

The Bay Area will have it first. It will be just a few years until cars CAN drive in traffic. It will be 25+ until they dominate all traffic and most/all traffic lights are removed.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 36):
I'd take Manhatten. If you have ever driven Santa Clara Valley, you'd know it is chock full of Type A aggressive drivers.

This is true!
 
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Thu May 29, 2014 4:16 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 42):
I used to deliver messages by bicycle in Manhattan. I'd take it any day, California traffic is more intense and much faster paced.

I'm not referring to you as a biker or as a driver, but to the programming in the car. So I don't think your preferences are relevant here.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 42):
That makes no matter anyway, Google is well on their way to thoroughly refuting your angst. They already have, only with driver backups.

I support the overall goals of automated cars. But I question the thoroughness of the automation in mixed driving environments when there's automated and human operated cars simultaneously...especially if there are high number of unpredictable variables.

[Edited 2014-05-29 09:18:32]
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Thu May 29, 2014 4:19 pm

Quoting max999 (Reply 40):
It's not the number of cars, but it's the high level of unpredictable variables on a Midtown street makes any suburban road a light traffic environment. Double or even triple parking, delivery/messenger bikers (who behave much more aggressively than regular bikers), masses of pedestrians who cross mid-block and against the light, loads of taxis weaving in and out for passengers, etc. I could go on and on.

While these things happen everywhere, I believe the sheer number of these variables in Manhattan streets make it especially challenging for automated cars which are programmed conservatively. Even human drivers who drive defensively have trouble here.

Actually, for the most part, traffic in Manhattan is pretty smooth. The big problem with Manhattan is the taxi drivers, each from a different third-world country, each with his own third-world driving style (a Ugandan getting into a lane fight with a Pakistani...it would be amusing if I were watching it from the sixth floor, but no, I'm in the back seat).

I've lived (and owned a car) in Manhattan and I live in the SF Bay Area (admittedly not Silicon Valley, although I get there on a regular basis) and I'm here to tell you, driving in Manhattan is much easier. If the Google Cars can handle the Bay Area (and they do quite nicely), they can handle Manhattan.

This will truly be a development that will change the way we live, as significant as the development of the car itself.
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Thu May 29, 2014 4:24 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 35):
Nope. It can be phased in gradually. Already companies are working on marketing vehicles that do 90% of the driving for you. They have cars that park themselves. It's actually already here.

Yes it is , for small applications, but there are much larger real life issues, and trust me as a software engineer, I know more about the devil the details than you can imagine.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 35):
Nope. You think the people at Google are idiots who didn't think about this?

No, I know they think about it. I am a software engineer, and there are very real world issues that come up with items such as this, and these items require cost and time to fix. Which winds up with a much more expensive product.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 35):
The cars exist. They have been driving around my neighborhood for years. They have never hit a pedestrian or crashed. My dog ran out in front of one and it stopped (and much faster than any human driver could have reacted). They just cannot be sold. They have already tackled every "impossible" hurdle you have mentioned.

You are so emotionally opposed to this that you are claiming that it is impossible when, in fact, it already exists.

Go back and read. I am not EMOTIONALLY OPPOSED. You and others here are barking like it is the 2nd coming of Christ. I just said it is a niche product. It will not catch on as a full production vehicle.

Quoting planemaker (Reply 38):
It has already been stated several times... these are prototypes that can go much faster than 25 mph (that should be obvious) but have been limited to 25 mph for now.

and they have drivers in them for safety at those speeds. Software still has issues, and software can be hacked . There are serious security and failsafe operations that still have to be implemented to make these products feasible.

Quoting planemaker (Reply 38):
Most of the tech is already standard on many cars. Volvos is selling the 100 autonomous cars they are putting on the road this year.

Yes, and many drivers can still drive from point A to point B, without the software, and at the pace they wish to travel.

Quoting planemaker (Reply 38):

I am always intrigued why people on here post 'declarative' statements without doing a basic search about something they have no or very limited knowledge about. Especially when the links are often provided to them and they still don't bother investigating.

I laugh at people that think Software does everything on a whim, and have never been involved in it's development, and have never programmed for redundancy, security or maintenance., and then believe that type of software is cheap or quickly available.





Look in a utopian world, you could theoretically put these cars into a internetworked cloud , where they communicate with all cars, and have sensors for all situations, and could work to isolate traffic by it's destination and allow for really high speed travel, with great failsafes. However it isn't going to be in the near future. It will be at least 25-30 years out. There are far too many items and development issues, and human nature that will stand in the way.
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Thu May 29, 2014 4:26 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 42):
Google is well on their way to thoroughly refuting your angst.

The thing is that it is not just Google... all the auto makers are working on it. Nissan is probably the furthest advanced with trials in Japan already. As linked to above, Volvo is starting their 100 vehicle program this year. And of course, there is an ecosystem of companies that are developing systems... like one of many that few if any know about.

Quoting max999 (Reply 44):
I support the overall goals of automated cars. But I question the thoroughness of the automation in mixed driving environments when there's automated and human operated cars simultaneously...especially if there are high number of unpredictable variables.

Not an issue... really. Especially since even the human operated cars keep adding autonomous systems and cars will eventually be all networked.
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planemaker
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Thu May 29, 2014 4:31 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 46):
However it isn't going to be in the near future.

They have already done it.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
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RE: Google 2-person Car With NO Driver Controls!

Thu May 29, 2014 4:41 pm

Quoting planemaker (Reply 48):
They have already done it.

No they haven't already done it. Otherwise they would not be in the prototype stage. The funny thing about software design and complex hardware design is that a lot of the test cases , especially in the prototype stage are design around how the designer thinks the software should work, and what the designer thinks that the situation will entail, and this covers off a good 70-85% of the real world operation. However it is the more complex issues that will keep fully autonomous products prototyped for years .
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