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DeltaMD90
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:10 pm

Quoting Ual777 (Reply 42):
issues from the repeal of don't ask don't tell

The repeal of DADT, from what I saw, was opposed greatly before it happened but afterwards it was shocking (IMO) about how most people didn't care and are now perfectly fine with equality. Only a few made a big deal out of it after the fact. IDK, maybe the USMC had more people complaining
 
ual777
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:50 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 44):

Wrong. Just wrong. A prime example would be General "Mad Dog" Mattis. He is revered in the Marine Corps. (For those familiar think a modern day Chesty Puller). He led multiple campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan including Operation Phantom Fury. He was widely supported within the Corps to become Commadant. Instead President Obama (along with Robert Gates) nominated General James Amos, a politically savvy former F-4 Phantom pilot who doesn't even have a Combat Action Ribbon.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 47):

I phrased that poorly. They are forcing women onto infantry units in the name of equality. I've heard a lot of chatter from friends I know who are still in that they are changing or fudging physical test results of women because the higher ups have been told to make it happen.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 50):

True, I'm not saying it's a huge deal, but a contributing factor. A big new one though is allowing illegal immigrants to enlist. I mean, WTF is that?!?? This isn't the ****** Foreign Legion! Absolutely disgraceful!


I personally find it laughable that some here expect our service members to cheer every decision this administration makes. The Army was even saying there would be no investigation in Bergdahl's case because "five years was enough," but the blowback from current active duty members and veterans has been so fierce that they are now backtracking. There are many even calling for him to face the firing squad. It's sad and makes my stomach churn to see what this administration does. Bergdahl deserves Levenworth, not a hero's welcome.
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:30 pm

Quoting Ual777 (Reply 51):
True, I'm not saying it's a huge deal, but a contributing factor. A big new one though is allowing illegal immigrants to enlist. I mean, WTF is that?!?? This isn't the ****** Foreign Legion! Absolutely disgraceful!

The military isn't some monolithic entity. There are many opinions in it. Don't pretend that one view encompasses us like I used to

Quoting Ual777 (Reply 51):
I personally find it laughable that some here expect our service members to cheer every decision this administration makes. The Army was even saying there would be no investigation in Bergdahl's case because "five years was enough," but the blowback from current active duty members and veterans has been so fierce that they are now backtracking. There are many even calling for him to face the firing squad. It's sad and makes my stomach churn to see what this administration does. Bergdahl deserves Levenworth, not a hero's welcome.

I find it shady and I know someone who is highly brain damaged and another who lost his legs in an ambush (that I might have been in had I deployed with my squad) while looking for a soldier that "walked off base." Checked the dates and the attack happened about a week after Bergdahl disappeared so I think they were hit because of him... so don't think I'm taking this likely, but we need to calm down a minute.

The military isn't a mob that should be demanding any rash action. There is still a chance these stories of Bergdahl are unsubstantiated or maybe he was suffering some extreme mental damage. The overall handling of this situation and the relative silence about the trade has been weird but I think there should be more time to gather facts rather than demand rushed actions
 
Ken777
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:34 pm

Quoting Ual777 (Reply 42):
The problem is that this administration has destroyed morale (at least in the Marine Corps). SNCOs are leaving in droves due to a litany of issues from the repeal of don't ask don't tell to trying to force women into infantry units.

DADT? There was about 1,200 men on my first ship and I find it hard to believe that there were no gay men on board - men who wanted to serve their country. The only difference today is that they don't have to hide. DADT was able to be eliminated because of the change of attitudes in the country. The military is behind in changing attitudes, but that should be the norm as it avoids fads.

Women in Infantry is, for me, a different issue and I don't support it. Too many problems when they are out in the field. I would be, however, that this issue was brought up by women's groups searching for equality. The military has, for a couple of Administrations, responded by opening up some fields on a rush. I can remember a woman fighter pilot that the Navy was considered to have rushed through too fast when she died in a crash during a carrier landing. But then there is a certain female helicopter pilot who lost both her legs in this 10 year war and, from al indications, she was one hell of a pilot.
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:35 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 39):
When they show that level of disrespect

Just out of curiosity... what's "disrespectful" about not cheering and clapping to every single bs a politician tells them? As a soldier I suppose you are expected to follow orders, but does it include supporting by default anything a politician says?
To avoid such embarrasment perhaps next time the Obama spin doctors should bring along those "APPLAUSE" signs they use for TV shows and light them up when necessary.
 
TheCommodore
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:56 pm

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 54):
As a soldier I suppose you are expected to follow orders, but does it include supporting by default anything a politician says?

A very good point   

Its a cheap trick, I think you'll find it mentioned in the Politicians 101 rule handbook.    
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:59 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 53):
Women in Infantry is, for me, a different issue and I don't support it. Too many problems when they are out in the field

I used to think this way but if a woman can meet the non-adjusted physical standards (very hard to do,) has the leadership skills (harder for women due to the way many of them are socialized,) and can take care of their issues on their own without having a negative effect of the platoon, then let 'em in. If these standards mean that women are allowed but none can make it, too bad so sad. As long as they're not thrust in there and drag everyone else down.

But that goes for males... if they aren't physically capable, suck tactically, and are a hot mess in the field, they shouldn't be in combat arms either.

Sexual attraction would be an issue but that's on the men themselves if they can't keep it to themselves. If the females engage in it they should be disciplined accordingly

I saw the openly gay issue as a big deal back when I was less enlightened but that came and passed without any adverse side effects minus the occasional homophobes complaining. I learned from that and predict the female issue will be similar
 
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seb146
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:18 am

Quoting Ual777 (Reply 51):
Wrong. Just wrong.

We had enlisted men (and women) in 2003 screaming that Iraq had no WMDs and had nothing to do with 9/11 and there is no reason to invade Iraq.

Besides, what does that have to do with "leave no man behind" even if that includes men/women who will be tried for crimes? We are still bringing remains of men from Vietnam.

Let's not do the FOX thing and be all "he is with Obama so he is anti-American and guilty!!" All Americans are innocent until proven guilty. Despite what the righties think, I am not giving this guy the benefit of the doubt but, rather, waiting until I hear the facts from an actual tribunal.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
ual777
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:38 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 57):

And you will see that I'm correct. I was the first to call it here. The military leadership was originally going to do nothing until the firestorm from active duty and veterans erupted. Again, the vacuum the military is facing on people getting out is due to the current administration. I take back my original statement of leaving him there. I want a court martial and the harshest penalty possible applied if found guilty......and nowhere did I say he was with Obama.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 53):

I agree on both fronts. The problem is that all of these have been hammered through and it's demoralizing and a distraction.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 52):

Everyone does have different opinions, but much of what I am saying is the prevailing attitude. I'm not sure which branch you were in but the majority that I know who are still in the Corps are dejected and can't wait to EAS. Oh, and from one to another thanks for your service. You too Ken.
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
Ken777
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:41 am

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 54):
Just out of curiosity... what's "disrespectful" about not cheering and clapping to every single bs a politician tells them?

I find silence to embarrass SecDef to be a very poor reflection of those sitting on their hands. I would also consider it as an embarrassment for their officers who would obviously be on the receiving end of comments from senior officers.
 
BN747
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:01 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 43):
I wish the Obama Administration had put this much effort into saving the people who were truly left behind in Benghazi...

While you're at it...make a wish that B-e-n-g-h-a-z-i had as many years, or months in build up time to formulate a plan, hell even a few days would make all the difference. But to act like miracles could be done in an hour or two makes your analogy beyond absurd.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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seb146
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:02 am

You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:05 am

I understand the whole notion that he's an American and that you're not supposed to leave soldiers behind in the field of battle, but there's just too many things about this that rub me the wrong way. We all know that this guy abandoned his post, so what is Susan Rice thinking going around saying Bergdahl had "served the United States with honour and distinction"? Bergdahl's dad is also an interesting case, and some of his conduct raises the question if he's become a Taliban sympathizer or converted to radical Islam.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 17):
As for the prisoners being freed, are you sure they're really free? I wouldn't be surprised if they were provided with a new identity to live in Qatar, without the right to ever leave.
Quoting zanl188 (Reply 18):
I understood the agreement requires them to stay in Qatar a year..

I'm not convinced that this Taliban "dream team" that was released from Gitmo is just going to retire peacefully. Some of the "restrictions" that were supposedly applied to these five are looking questionable:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...an-prisoners-idUSKBN0EE1AD20140603

"Qatar has moved five Afghan Taliban prisoners freed in exchange for a U.S. soldier to a residential compound and will let them move freely in the country, a senior Gulf official said on Tuesday, a step likely to be scrutinized by Washington.

The Gulf official said the Taliban men, who have been granted Qatari residency permits, will not be treated like prisoners while in Doha and no U.S. officials will be involved in monitoring their movement while in the country.

"Under the deal they have to stay in Qatar for a year and then they will be allowed to travel outside the country...They can go back to Afghanistan if they want to," the official said."


Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 36):
I hate how Republicans tend to jump on the administration no matter what happens before learning the details but I have to agree... this seems pretty fishy...

Even Dianne Feinstein, one of President Obama's supposed political allies, was clearly not happy with this deal:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...white-house-sorry-oversight-bergd/

"The president is required to give Congress 30 days notice before transferring prisoners from the detention center for terrorists at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. No notice was provided before the administration sent five high-ranking Taliban officials to Qatar in exchange for the release of Sgt. Bergdahl.

While she accepted the White House excuse, Mrs. Feinstein said that there are “legitimate concerns” about the way the deal was handled by the Obama administration."
Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
 
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seb146
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:06 am

Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 62):
Even Dianne Feinstein, one of President Obama's supposed political allies, was clearly not happy with this deal:

And where was she when other alleged "terrorists" were mentioned?

As an alleged "liberal" I have to ask "why?"....
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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CALTECH
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:13 pm

Quoting Ual777 (Reply 51):
I personally find it laughable that some here expect our service members to cheer every decision this administration makes. The Army was even saying there would be no investigation in Bergdahl's case because "five years was enough," but the blowback from current active duty members and veterans has been so fierce that they are now backtracking. There are many even calling for him to face the firing squad. It's sad and makes my stomach churn to see what this administration does. Bergdahl deserves Levenworth, not a hero's welcome.

Some even say he was a collaborator. Have to see what else shakes out. There is a report that he renounced his American Citizenship before deserting, so would not be a big loss leaving him behind. Unless they found out he did collaborate with the enemy, then if a firing squad would be a good outcome.

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 54):
To avoid such embarrasment perhaps next time the Obama spin doctors should bring along those "APPLAUSE" signs they use for TV shows and light them up when necessary.

They did, it was on the teleprompters, but only Obama applauded himself.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 57):
We had enlisted men (and women) in 2003 screaming that Iraq had no WMDs and had nothing to do with 9/11 and there is no reason to invade Iraq.

And almost the entire democrat party leadership was telling the world there were and saying Saddam needed to be stopped. Maybe we should have listened to the military and not the politicians.

Even a President Of The United States wanted to use force.

" "If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998"

http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp

Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 62):
We all know that this guy abandoned his post, so what is Susan Rice thinking going around saying Bergdahl had "served the United States with honour and distinction"?

Just wait, they will parade this guy as a hero. A liberal's hero. And to conservatives he is a deserter at best. And there is the political divide in the USA.

Some liberals are even turning against those democrats questioning Obama's decisions on this matter. Heard this morning something about Hollywood or a Hollywood liberal throwing a party for this deserter.
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BN747
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:17 pm

Looks like the hardcore Republicans shot themselves in the foot again, because they just could not wait til all the facts were in..

They just could not wait to hear from the soldier himself.

They had to interpret their way and they had to muddy the waters as quickly as possible. ASAP.

When a little common sense was all that was needed.

They are consistently worried about Obama's drones...you guys don't think these 'worst of the worst terrorist' left gitmo without drone tattoos stamped on their foreheads?

The best thing these guys can do is lay so low that their faces dare not show up on facebook nor send out any tweets. This probably applies to ALL Gitmo detainees.

Repubs bitch an complain, that Obama has not kept his promise to close Gitmo. So he's a liar.


But if he closes it..the detainees have to go somewhere...Repubs don't want them on US soil.

Should they be gunnedl down in chains?

So why not 'tag them' and make the trade that was made? The rest are going to be released anyway.. if and WHEN Gitmo closes and spend their final days as possible Drone targets...what's the fear and worry all about?

So there goes the terrorist scare part of this fake horrific deal...right down the commode.

Next up, Bowe Bergdahl himself.

He was promoted TWICE in absentia..TWICE that is.

If he did all these terrible things such as desertion...he has to be the 1st Deserter receiving promotions - for deserting.
I mean all this hoopla about his former unit members (and I watched quite a few interviews) is starting to fall apart. The supposed soldiers reported to have been killed 'looking for Bergdahl' ..turns out they were not killed out doing anything. They were killed in outpost attacks - frequent occurrences in Iraq and Afghanistan for years.

Can Bowe Bergdahl Be Tied to 6 Lost Lives? Facts Are Murky
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/04/wo...-6-lost-lives-facts-are-murky.html

So one would think those who walk around loaded with 'at the ready' Obama attack lines would learn some patience and gathering of facts before flying off at the mouth..and on the other hand..but appears it's just wrong to think they would approach these thing any other way.

ALL of this rancor of the last 48 hours...for nothing. Pathetic.

This is precisely why the American people can not be trusted with certain information and certainly not anything of any great sensitivity. Too many among us take idiotic reporting, make it fact and fly off the deep end and take too many with them. Too many Americans are just poor, extremely poor processors of information..esp. when provided partial information.

BN747

[Edited 2014-06-04 07:54:01]
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
jreuschl
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:33 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 65):
Looks like the hardcore Republicans shot themselves in the foot again, because they just could not wait til all the facts were in..

So if the facts are not in yet, how are you so sure that this will work out well for your side?

If we are going to give the enemy something, we better make sure what we are fighting to get back is worth it.

Not only that, we are now considered weak. If the Taliban wants more of their people back, just grab an American!

Also, where is the desire to look like a "hero" and get Sgt. Andrew Tahmooressi released in Mexico?

[Edited 2014-06-04 08:47:20]
 
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CALTECH
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:40 pm

The extremist liberals are on the wrong side on this one. This administration is against the American people, when it is convenient for them they say polls show Americans support their extreme leftist views, when the polls actually show otherwise, they go ahead and do bad policy decisions anyway, knowing that anything challenged will be so tied up in the courts that their communist policies will be in effect for years.

Looks like the extreme leftists are blowing their legs off by supporting Obama and this deserter.

http://dailycaller.com/2014/06/02/us...ed-investigated-him/#ixzz33WlQxBVD

http://news.yahoo.com/us-concluded-2...lked-away-185047684--politics.html

If these 5 released terrorists end up killing more Americans,................
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pvjin
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:36 pm

If George W Bush hadn't invaded Afghanistan this whole thing wouldn't have happened, blame him.

An average European teenager with a bit of history knowledge could have known Afghan war to be a total failure. The British & Soviets showed it already, yet this dumbass had to go and repeat the very same mistakes.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
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seb146
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:54 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 71):
If George W Bush hadn't invaded Afghanistan this whole thing wouldn't have happened, blame him

Much as I thought GWB was a failure, I believe military intervention in Afghanistan was necessary. I don't think it should have gone on as long as it did, and could have used far fewer troops but, considering the reason behind it.

I found this interesting, too:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/0...-then-condemned-it?detail=facebook
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
BN747
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:47 pm

As a little experiment, I recently took a visit down A.net Memory lane and viewed threads started before the 2000 Election, to view Conservative perspectives THEN about their choice BEFORE the 2000 election. Just to see their frame of mind.

These are the threads...

Who Are Your Voting For? Posted Fri Nov 3 2000

Ok....enough Is Enough Posted Sun Nov 5 2000

7th November - Who Will Win? Posted Mon Nov 6 2000


Those opinions expressed (just they hold back nothing in their venom today, although then it wasn't as foaming at the mouth as it is today) ...and taken into account of what I remember Conservatives saying about Reagan before and doing his 1980 election..points to several unbreakable observations.

It appears their decision making in these matters are always based on false and imaginary fears, first and foremost,

Looking at the 2000 Election post, all these beliefs they had about what a Bush Presidency would be is a HUGE disappointment even if you took measurement and stopped BEFORE 9/11 2001 (that is if they are true to their convictions expressed before the election).

They expected and wanted 'Dignity' in the White House because Clinton's blow (something they all like for themselves , and will lie about just like Clinton, and will engage in ..in various hidden circumstance, just like Clinton) and they used 'lying' as their chief excuse for Clinton dislike (as no President has ever lied).. but they felt Dignity, Honor and Respect is what Bush would deliver.

What they got in Bush's 1st year BEFORE 9/11.... was Bush and his 1st Cabinet meeting was 'Iraq, Iraq, Iraq, how do we get into Iraq'...

Bush Sought 'Way' To Invade Iraq? - CBS News

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/bush-sought-way-to-invade-iraq/

Fact.

When I recall Conservative talk of Reagan...

It was...

'Reagan's tough, Carter is a pansy'

"Reagan won't take any crap from anyone"

And Reagan deserved it, because he talked all that 'Our Military is weak and we'll make them second to none'...all braggadocio macho BS' that people in fear always need to hear and none of what he said..was true.

What they got was ' Arms trading to the Enemy for American Hostages' - Twice!

Fact.

What they also got was 260 US Marines wiped out in a single Bombing,...and America cut and ran..

Reagan response to make everyone forget Beirut??? Was to attack the tiny Caribbean Island the VERY NEXT DAY claiming the Communist were coming. Which was total BS.

Fact.

He talked really tough, 'Mr Gorbachev, Tear Down this Wall'.. which was a huge facade because Gorbachev had already down all the heavy lifting to break apart the Soviet's Iron grip with his own internal policies.

So when I look back at listening to the most hawkish Conservatives render opinions on matters of from school lunches to any international conflict...

They can be counted on to go off half-cocked and are 99.99% sure to make the wrong choice and just be wrong across the board because of their method of rationale and reason - both in dire short supply.

This Bergdahl handling from their actions in the last 48 hours - their actions, not my thinking, their actions prove to be disastrous just as the timeline above proves. And it will never change because it is solely predicated on unfounded fear. and nothing else.

When someone is this fearful, they are dangerous people and will assuredly start trouble.

Look at the Mississippi Senate campaign, breaking into a retirement home to sneak snapshots of a man's wife suffering dementia in order to post them on the internet - in order to win an election???

They know of no limits of decency and yet they 1st to claim, they want decency and truth and place prize on honor. 100% behind the troops...except any trooper who is successfully swift-boated.

They just can not be trusted with great power, their like a scared kid with a loaded gun and lot of ammo,

And they spawn these very false ideals today across talk radio and bogus media...I really see no end in sight with the driving force behind their ideologies, they've made it a 'you're either with us, or against' mentality - forever.

BN747

[Edited 2014-06-04 11:48:52]

[Edited 2014-06-04 11:51:01]
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
RussianJet
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:55 pm

I'm no right-winger of any description, but I'm amazed that the US has negotiated with terrorists in such a manner - it sets an incredibly dangerous precedent which will embolden terrorists to think they can trade successfully with the lives of those they capture. That has consequences for all of us.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:28 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 57):
Besides, what does that have to do with "leave no man behind" even if that includes men/women who will be tried for crimes? We are still bringing remains of men from Vietnam.

I don't think that's the main issue (and yeah, you'll find some that thinks he should have rot over there) but most concerns I've heard are the costs associated with it and how it went down. Again, who are these 5 terrorists? Why wasn't anyone (supposedly) not notified? How do we know these guys won't get back in the fight after their year is up? Why has there been little to say about this? And the whole situation just seems weird, it's like they were expecting everyone to be completely fine with the trade and be happy we got a soldier who "fought with distinction" back. It just seems weird, IDK

Quoting Ual777 (Reply 58):
Again, the vacuum the military is facing on people getting out is due to the current administration.

Most people I've dealt with that are sick of the military are annoyed with the atmosphere... ex: what seems like a million safety briefs, sexual assault briefs, being treated like children a lot, low job satisfaction, etc. A lot of it can sound like it's attributed to the administration but I don't think it has much to do with it. It just seems like a lot of people are burnt out and are tired of Tom Foolery... not really sure if it matters who won 2008 or 2012. JMO

Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 62):
While she accepted the White House excuse, Mrs. Feinstein said that there are “legitimate concerns” about the way the deal was handled by the Obama administration."

Exactly, it just all seemed out of left field

Quoting jreuschl (Reply 66):
Also, where is the desire to look like a "hero" and get Sgt. Andrew Tahmooressi released in Mexico?

I am confused why there has been more or less silence on this issue, but on the other hand, this situation did appear to be the Marine's fault completely. I know he took a wrong turn and all but you better believe I'd put on my brakes and just sit right in front of the border rather than cross it if it came down to it. He did goof

Quoting CALTECH (Reply 67):
The extremist liberals are on the wrong side on this one. This administration is against the American people, when it is convenient for them they say polls show Americans support their extreme leftist views, when the polls actually show otherwise, they go ahead and do bad policy decisions anyway, knowing that anything challenged will be so tied up in the courts that their communist policies will be in effect for years.

Sigh... a lot of people really lose me and many others when they go from the perfectly reasonable position of "the administration makes a lot of bad moves" to a "he hates America" conspiracy theory. It's just silly. Do you actually believe he has disdain against Americans and is working against them?
 
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seb146
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:43 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 73):
I'm amazed that the US has negotiated with terrorists in such a manner

The United States has always negotiated with terrorists. I think that now, more than ever, we are finding that words and actions are much more effective than bombs and bullets.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 74):
the whole situation just seems weird, it's like they were expecting everyone to be completely fine with the trade and be happy we got a soldier who "fought with distinction" back. It just seems weird, IDK

I know no one is supposed to say this for some reason, but when terrorists were released before, it was no big deal.

And, like I keep saying, when the real story comes out about what did or did not happen, that is when we should talk about it. Not now when we don't know much of anything other than "he said, she said".
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:00 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 75):
I know no one is supposed to say this for some reason, but when terrorists were released before, it was no big deal.

Why are you so insistent on shutting everyone up just because something happened in the past? Excuse me if I overlooked something in the past, I see THIS situation happening NOW so I'm commenting. Come on Seb, you should know I'm not trying to make something out of nothing. Even a lot of Democratic congressmen and women are a bit sketched out, this isn't some GOP temper tantrum

Quoting seb146 (Reply 75):
And, like I keep saying, when the real story comes out about what did or did not happen, that is when we should talk about it.

We can and should talk about it even when the full story isn't out. What we shouldn't do is jump to conclusions and demand actions without knowing the full story. Read my posts, I say a lot of things like it 'appears' sketchy and "we should wait until the full story comes out." Some things we can comment on are how it's weird how they handled it so far... there just seems to have been a disconnect. Maybe there was a good reason for it but they should have at least been more vocal
 
Ken777
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:51 pm

If there is a problem with Berghahl let the DoD sort it all out. There is an extensive set of procedures that will properly take care of the situation and it is based on the UCMJ.

Key will probably be what triggered the situation? How many deployments had be ben on, how long was he on this deployment? What meds was he given in order to stay awake, etc? (The latter is most important.) What were the factors? I'll wait until we git some official disclosures before I get too concerned about calling him a name.

Quoting CALTECH (Reply 68):
Think this sums it up nicely,

Lots of people hate that black guy in the White house and it shows.
 
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zckls04
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:07 pm

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 30):
anyway, I sure a drone strike will be on the cards 365 days from now when those freed will be allowed to travel.

That was the first thought which crossed my mind as well.

This seems like politically a strange move; if the deserter allegations are true, then the Obama administration must have known about them, and they must have foreseen the firestorm that would result. And it's not like this was a snap decision. So for whatever reason the administration must have viewed this to be worth the political fallout.

Admittedly the Gitmo prisoners are very low value ones; drug lords and thugs, i.e. pretty much just average Afghan politicians. But I suspect there's more to this story than meets the eye. I doubt we'll have the facts for a while.

What's certainly true reading these threads is that "support the troops" is purely a meaningless buzzphrase in this country; just a sticker on a truck with no meaning. This guy has already been convicted without uttering a single word. Pretty disgusting, but sadly par for the course.

[Edited 2014-06-04 16:25:24]
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BestWestern
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:18 pm

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 78):
This guy has already been convicted without uttering a single word.

The are using him as a pawn to convict Obama.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
AyostoLeon
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:27 am

Earlier in the thread I asked whether promotions were automatic as I could not understand why someone suspected of desertion would be promoted. BN747 has also pointed out that Bergdahl was promoted twice since his disappearance. This does seem odd.

Now we learn from Caltech that Bergdahl renounced his citizenship. Is that true? My limited understanding of US law is that the US will not allow you to renounce citizenship if it will leave you stateless. Did Bergdahl have dual citizenship? If not, he would still be a US citizen and, consistent with leaving no one behind, there would have been a requirement to bring him home.

I guess that to satisfy all those who already have all the answers, the simplest would have been to take him out in a drone strike and, if the worst came, mark it down as killed by friendly fire or collateral damage. But I guess that too would be used to bash the current Commander in Chief.
The person with no dignity eats his dinner twice
 
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seb146
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:38 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 76):
We can and should talk about it even when the full story isn't out. What we shouldn't do is jump to conclusions and demand actions without knowing the full story.

Well put.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 76):
Why are you so insistent on shutting everyone up just because something happened in the past?

I am not "insistent on shutting people up" but rather, reminding the same people who are losing their minds over this that they remained silent when it happened before. Like so many things they are "outraged" over lately.

I had heard a report that Bergdahl was captured less than an hour after he left camp but it takes 30 days for someone to be classified as a deserter. I am not jumping to conclusions here but, what if he had already been given time off and decided to wander through the village?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
BN747
Posts: 7934
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:36 am

Quoting AyostoLeon (Reply 80):
Now we learn from Caltech that Bergdahl renounced his citizenship.

Correction: You learned that from him...no one else on the planet is reporting that.

Quoting AyostoLeon (Reply 80):
I guess that to satisfy all those who already have all the answers, the simplest would have been to take him out in a drone strike and

And that's exactly who's 'red tagged' for drone, the five being released.

If you speak to people from 'other countries' (and who politically astute of dodgy govts)..they're saying these five will be killed on arrival. Maybe the TB wanted these specific five because earlier released Detainees fingered these five as 'cooperating' with the US. One things for certain...the TB aren't a feel good boy scout bunch.

BN747

[Edited 2014-06-04 20:47:05]
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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seb146
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:42 am

Quoting BN747 (Reply 82):
Maybe the TB wanted these specific five because earlier released Detainees fingered these five as 'cooperating' with the US.

I was thinking about this earlier. These five will have to spend a year in Qatar, IIRC. Not a hotbed of terrorism. I am curious as to how the Qatari government will treat them and if, indeed, they will last the full year. To add to BN's thought: it would not surprise me if they asked for asylum there.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:49 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 81):
I am not "insistent on shutting people up" but rather, reminding the same people who are losing their minds over this that they remained silent when it happened before.

Address them accordingly but also address us who aren't out for blood. There are some weird things that aren't yet inexplicable but are worthy of discussion said by people that aren't picking up the pitchforks and calling for impeachment or whatever

Quoting seb146 (Reply 81):
I am not jumping to conclusions here but, what if he had already been given time off and decided to wander through the village?

No. That simply doesn't happen over there. There were many shady details leading up to it but I can absolutely tell you that soldiers don't go for random strolls.

I remember hearing about it back in 2009 before it was tied to anything political and the allegations were very similar. This guy better have a good explanation, it strikes close to home for me personally
 
ltbewr
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:52 am

The head of the Joint Chiefs noted that Bergahl is presumed innocent until convicted, that he will likely face a military criminal investigation under the UCMJ with full constitutional protections and legal assistance.

There are several odd things about this whole deal, perhaps information that has to be withheld from the public for now, possible bad politics, perhaps to get into better favor with a major power threat in Afganistan after we leave, too many rumors of Bergdahl's behavior before he ended up a POW. The leadership of his platoon and overall base has some serious problems, so perhaps a failure of an officer to see signs of potential problems, as needed all the boots on they ground they had led to not disciplining Bergdahl or sending him back to the States.
 
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seb146
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:24 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 84):
No. That simply doesn't happen over there. There were many shady details leading up to it but I can absolutely tell you that soldiers don't go for random strolls.

That is something we civilians do not know. We are used to a regular job where we can just let loose after a certain time.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 84):
Address them accordingly but also address us who aren't out for blood. There are some weird things that aren't yet inexplicable but are worthy of discussion said by people that aren't picking up the pitchforks and calling for impeachment or whatever

I thought I did...

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 85):
The head of the Joint Chiefs noted that Bergahl is presumed innocent until convicted, that he will likely face a military criminal investigation under the UCMJ with full constitutional protections and legal assistance.

He has already been tried and convicted in the court of media opinion....
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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CALTECH
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:55 am

Quoting pvjin (Reply 70):
An average European teenager with a bit of history knowledge could have known Afghan war to be a total failure.

Kicked the taliban out, stopped some of the attacks elsewhere in the world by focusing the attention on Afghanistan and the foreigners pouring in there to fight US and Allied Force rather than attacking America. That's a failure of historical knowledge there.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 73):






I'm no right-winger of any description, but I'm amazed that the US has negotiated with terrorists in such a manner - it sets an incredibly dangerous precedent which will embolden terrorists to think they can trade successfully with the lives of those they capture. That has consequences for all of us.

Help those who might get attacked by these terrorists released by Obama.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 77):
Lots of people hate that black guy in the White house and it shows.

Don't like the guy because he is a communist. Nothing to do with his color. Didn't like Clinton either and really thought very little of Jimmy Carter. Had nothing to do with their skin color. Didn't like any of those leftists. So liberals who hate Condoleezza Rice, Clarence Thomas, Dr. Ben Carson, Herman Cain, Allen West are all racists too, and it shows.
You are here.
 
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seb146
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:53 am

Quoting CALTECH (Reply 85):
Kicked the taliban out, stopped some of the attacks elsewhere in the world by focusing the attention on Afghanistan and the foreigners pouring in there to fight US and Allied Force rather than attacking America. That's a failure of historical knowledge there.

"I don't know where he (Osama bin Laden) is... I just don't spend that much time on him..."

And there is the whole Iraq thing.

Quoting CALTECH (Reply 85):
Don't like the guy because he is a communist

Because.... how? The economy is doing well. Private sector job growth is outpacing public sector job growth (salaries are still very low, but that's another topic). Go look up the definition of "communism" and lay that on top of this administration and tell the class again how we are under a communist regime.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
PhilBy
Posts: 840
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:44 am

RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:09 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 86):
Go look up the definition of "communism" and lay that on top of this administration and tell the class again how we are under a communist regime.

Communisn (n)
advocacy of a classless society in which private ownership has been abolished and the means of production and subsistence belong to the community

a political movement based upon the writings of Marx that considers history in terms of class conflict and revolutionary struggle, resulting eventually in the victory of the proletariat and the establishment of a socialist order based on public ownership of the means of production

(Chiefly US) any leftist political activity or thought, esp. when considered to be subversive

That would be because after the government financial bailout of major enterprises Obama insisted on maintaining government ownership of said enterprises. Oh wait....

I wouldn't be surprised to hear in about 15months that the NSA had surgically implanted GPS trackers in the released detainees without their knowledge and was using them to track terrorist activities.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
Posts: 2818
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:42 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 76):
Some things we can comment on are how it's weird how they handled it so far... there just seems to have been a disconnect. Maybe there was a good reason for it but they should have at least been more vocal
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 77):
Key will probably be what triggered the situation? How many deployments had be ben on, how long was he on this deployment? What meds was he given in order to stay awake, etc? (The latter is most important.) What were the factors? I'll wait until we git some official disclosures before I get too concerned about calling him a name.

I think these posts both highlight the larger issue pretty well. The problem is that there is a huge amount of what don't we know about this going on. And more importantly, why?

This Administration is clearly on the more intelligent end of the scale; enough so that everyone, including Obama, had to know that this was going to be as popular as an MRA speech at a NOW rally.

I'm not going to say there's a good reason for this trade, but I'm not willing to don my tinfoil hat yet either. Either way, I do confess some curiosity as to why this had to happen, to the point of fudging on Procedure a little...

Quoting CALTECH (Reply 85):

Don't like the guy because he is a communist. Nothing to do with his color. Didn't like Clinton either and really thought very little of Jimmy Carter. Had nothing to do with their skin color. Didn't like any of those leftists.

Oh, so he's a communist now, huh? Ok. Without regard to racism/non-racism, I think you're pretty reactionary. You see that "D" by a name and that sets you right off. Am I missing something?
Well, you know what they say. Whatever doesn't kill you...
... Must not be an MD-11.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:40 pm

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 89):
This Administration is clearly on the more intelligent end of the scale

Thank you for the laugh!!!......

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 89):
including Obama, had to know that this was going to be as popular as an MRA speech at a NOW rally.

No he didn't, and it is because he surrounds himself with yes-people who will tell him what he wants to hear. So no he didn't expect this response, He didn't expect his West Point speech to go flat last week, and no the emperor isn't wearing any clothes......And General Fransisco Frano is still dead!

I hope you are old enough to get that SNL reference.....its from Chevy Chase's days!
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
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DeltaMD90
Posts: 8928
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:31 pm

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 89):
but I'm not willing to don my tinfoil hat yet either. Either way, I do confess some curiosity as to why this had to happen, to the point of fudging on Procedure a little...

I'm not throwing on some tin foil hat... your last sentence sums up what I think. The most important thing is despite being suspicious, you don't go looking for answers that suit your suspicions or even worse, make a huge scandal based on incomplete information
 
PHX787
Posts: 7892
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:51 pm

Looks like this whole thing was a diplomatic mess if you ask me....
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seb146
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:49 pm

Quoting PhilBy (Reply 87):
Communisn

smdh

The government bailouts happened under Bush. Plus, the whole idea of privatizing everything is what crashed the economy under Bush and brought the country to it's knees.

Also, show me when and where Obama tries to abolish private ownership. Every point that is made in the "definition" of communism does not add up to Obama being a communist.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:21 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 93):
, show me when and where Obama tries to abolish private ownership

not all are overt
My healthcare
My firearms
My coal furnace
Not allowing market forces to function

And let's us not forget trying to force me out of my pickup truck and into a battery powered tinfoil car!

At least Adolf Hitler had the good sense to ask Ferdinand Porche to design his people's car or Volkswagon.

Obama went to a bankrupt company and their engineers came up with the Volt. I heard fifteen of them got canned for recall issues on another car of there's

But I do agree with you obummer is not a communist, he has way too many fascist elements to be one.

[Edited 2014-06-05 10:24:47]
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
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seb146
Posts: 23397
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:37 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 94):
And let's us not forget trying to force me out of my pickup truck and into a battery powered tinfoil car!

That is the funniest thing I have seen all day! Thanks for the laugh!! I guess all the thousands of F-350s and Rams and Silverados I see every day running around here are just a figment of my liberal imagination...

Quoting L-188 (Reply 94):
My healthcare

Still privatized

Quoting L-188 (Reply 94):
My firearms

Still privatized

Quoting L-188 (Reply 94):
My coal furnace

Still privatized

Quoting L-188 (Reply 94):
Not allowing market forces to function

Dow, NASDAQ, S&P at the highest levels ever and home prices higher than before Bush crashed the economy.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 94):
Obama went to a bankrupt company and their engineers came up with the Volt.

What you are saying is Obama FORCED Chevrolet to build the Volt? You have a source on this?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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pvjin
Posts: 3586
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:59 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 95):
My healthcare

Healthcare shouldn't be under private ownership to begin with. State funded healthcare has been proved to be totally superior system many times already.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 95):
Not allowing market forces to function

If you didn't notice the market forces are bringing humankind to some serious trouble. Free market and mass consumerism are by far the most destructive and dangerous things humankind has ever faced, they are threat to the very core values of western world - freedom and democracy, as international megacorporations reduce the power democratically elected governments have.

Market forces shouldn't be allowed to ruin this entire planet and possibly end human life by filling this entire planet with trash and pollution.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
L-188
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:15 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 96):

Quoting seb146 (Reply 95):
My healthcare

Healthcare shouldn't be under private ownership to begin with. State funded healthcare has been proved to be totally superior system many times already.

Want to tell all those guys on VA waiting lists that?

Another unrelated problem obummer has chosen to deflect and ignore.

Socialized medicine kills.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
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DeltaMD90
Posts: 8928
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:21 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 97):
Want to tell all those guys on VA waiting lists that?

Another unrelated problem obummer has chosen to deflect and ignore.

Socialized medicine kills.

I figured this would come up. Yes, the VA had problems. But don't you think if these countries can do it:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/25/Universal_health_care.svg/800px-Universal_health_care.svg.png

then the US can do it? I thought we were supposed to be the leader in the world. Are you saying that all these countries are just too advanced for us and we won't be able to get working healthcare?

And no, Europe's woes aren't due to universal healthcare. Why do you think that the vast majority of citizens in these countries enjoy their healthcare and wouldn't want to go back? Just ask our foreign posters on these threads. Almost all love UHC
 
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pvjin
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:23 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 97):
Want to tell all those guys on VA waiting lists that?

Another unrelated problem obummer has chosen to deflect and ignore.

Socialized medicine kills.

Socialized medicine works just fine in Europe. Don't blame a good system for problems caused by American incompetence.

Expensive private healthcare kills people who can't afford it.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15589
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:27 am

To me the bigger issue as to the release of the Gitmo detainees in this deal isn't that they will go back to terrorizing the USA or Europe, but that they are inspiration to the currently active terrorists who want to attack us.

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