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seb146
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:48 am

Quoting pvjin (Reply 96):
market forces
Quoting pvjin (Reply 96):
Free market
Quoting pvjin (Reply 96):
mass consumerism

Those are three different things.

None of those have to do with the media and people of this country who have already tried and convicted and sentenced Bergahl. If you doubt that, just go back and look at posts in this thread or any comments on this story from any site.
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BN747
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:50 am

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 101):

To me the bigger issue as to the release of the Gitmo detainees in this deal isn't that they will go back to terrorizing the USA or Europe, but that they are inspiration to the currently active terrorists who want to attack us.

Why? They are to be released shortly anyway as Gitmo shuts down.

Are you saying a trade sanctioned release vs a scheduled release really get their dander up? That's super silly.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
ImperialEagle
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:54 am

So more information surfaces. Bergdahl went Jihad and converted while in captivity according to newly released documents.

Her's the link to the Fox News article:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014...lared-jihad-secret-documents-show/
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AyostoLeon
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:06 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 97):
Socialized medicine kills.

Really? Explain to me how I am still alive. I received free immunisation and inoculations as a child. If I need to visit a doctor I do not have to see if I have cash available.

When my father developed cancer he underwent chemotherapy at no cost to himself other than the Medicare Levy that he had paid. His eventual death had nothing to do with how the procedures were paid for.

Last year my mother (who is in her eighties) started heavy post menopausal bleeding. I did not have to hesitate before calling an ambulance and taking her to the hospital. She was admitted the same day and underwent surgery and made a full recovery. She did not have to dread a huge medical bill because health care was paid through Medicare.
The person with no dignity eats his dinner twice
 
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seb146
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:28 am

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 104):
Bergdahl went Jihad and converted while in captivity according to newly released documents.

Consider the source.

And, is this the OFFICIAL report from the military?
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QANTAS077
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:35 am

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 104):
Her's the link to the Fox News article:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014...lared-jihad-secret-documents-show/

lost credibility as soon as you posted Fox.

This is nothing more than a political football now.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 97):
Socialized medicine kills.

inflated health insurance kills..but hey, I had a head operation, back operation and a few other things and at no cost to myself at all, and I'm still here. stop peddling ideological bullshit because is suits your political view.
 
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seb146
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:38 am

Let's also not forget that Nixon negotiated with the terror organization Viet Cong for the release of John McCain in 1973.

We won't talk about Reagan or Bush II since nothing bad happened when they were in office....

http://newsmilitary.com/pages/273833...-freed-after-nixon-swapped-pows-73
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ual777
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:48 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 102):

Look, this isn't about what happened 40 years ago. This is about negotiating for a guy that deserted. If you go back to the beginning of this thread you will see I'm the first one to call Bergdahl out. Why? Because I served and I know a lot of other veterans and guys who are still in. It was well known 5 years ago that he deserted and that why you see guys from his unit calling him on it on the national media. Why is it a big deal? I know two Marines who were ambushed and saved the last bullet for themselves. It infuriates guys like me because so many of my brothers have fallen and the upper levels of the military/government made it seem like we were rescuing a hero. He's not John McCain. He's a weirdo who spent a month in Afghanistan and abandoned his brothers. Until you have lost a friend in combat, it's difficult to explain.

I don't really care about the negotiated release and I'm a conservative guy. What I do care about is holding this coward accountable when so many young warriors have laid down their lives or come home with physical and mental scars. It literally makes my stomach turn.

All on this board need to focus on the issue at hand. Not what Nixon, Clinton, or Bush did. Trying to make this guy a hero is akin to spitting on the graves of thousands of our servicemen and women. Sorry if I'm coming off strong, but I'm pissed.
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
sipadan
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:59 am

Quoting BN747 (Reply 103):
Why? They are to be released shortly anyway as Gitmo shuts down.

This is not necessarily true. Two of the men are currently indicted by the UN War Crimes commission. That the decision was made to NOT hand them over to the tribunal is troublesome. Why has the administration chosen to shirk international law in this particular instance? This question must be answered.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 102):
None of those have to do with the media and people of this country who have already tried and convicted and sentenced Bergahl. If you doubt that, just go back and look at posts in this thread or any comments on this story from any site.

No, we have not. We have had a strong a visceral reaction to something that seems truly bewildering. The fact of the matter, IN THIS INSTANCE, is that many Americans, left and right, are having great difficulty in grasping the rationale behind this action, along with the optics enveloping it.

When the CIC 'appears' to have made a dubious decision without the proper consultation, and when implicit in the nature of this decision is something so grave as life and death, people naturally and legitimately become extremely concerned. When the CIC seemingly (Nb this word) demonstrates a flawed logic to such a degree as to be irreconcilable, it should be of great concern to every citizen of the US.

The overt mendacity being perpetrated by the administration vis a vis this matter is all the more alarming and worrisome.

For the record, I am centrist through and through, but everything about this feels untoward, creepy, disingenuous and DANGEROUS...the people, and in particular those individuals who have risked their lives in service to this country deserve better. At least two of these individuals also are believed to have American blood on their hands.

And to those screaming that this has been politicized...yes, indeed. When you march out two parents and call an impromptu press briefing in the Rose garden, well, um, it's been duly politicized.

And for the time being, I think most here, or at least most rational actors, are willing to give the benefit of the doubt as to the Bergdahl 'narrative', to his fellow platoon members. And what they are saying, UNEQUIVOCALLY, is that this young man deserted at best, murdered at worst.
 
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seb146
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:13 am

Quoting sipadan (Reply 110):
No, we have not.

*facepalm*

I am told by some people that I do not need to write out a disclaimer but it appears I do....

I do not *ASSUME* every single person to the right (read: who watches MSM) of me is brain dead. I know there are plenty of people who understand they will wait for the facts before passing judgment. And, then, there are those (like my brother and brother-in-law) who have already passed judgment because "news" sources told them what to think.

Quoting sipadan (Reply 110):
When the CIC 'appears' to have made a dubious decision without the proper consultation,

Bush.

That is my response to that statement.

Where are the WMDs we were told that were "in Tikrit and to the north, south, east, and west of there..."?
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sipadan
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:10 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 111):
Bush.

That is my response to that statement.

Where are the WMDs we were told that were "in Tikrit and to the north, south, east, and west of there..."?

I have no problem with this whatsoever. In all likelihood they were never there. Whether or not Bush himself was mislead is another matter. I personally found this false pretense that was perpetuated by his administration and it's cronies to be abhorrent. It is a govt. by the people, for the people...or so it should be.

It is precisely this, falsehood, as you point out, that poses the greatest threat to our treasured democracy. The recriminations Bush faced, along with some of his cabinet members, was negligible, thus further setting dangerous precedent. To lead a nation into war under the auspice of something that was fabricated is mind numbing. He should have been impeached.

However, this does in no way abdicate responsibility and exonerate Obama. Whilist leading a nation into war under false pretense is perhaps the most potentially ruinous action a leader can take, nonetheless there was a certain sensible and comprehensible aspect to it that most Americans could readily understand (whether they agreed with it or not).

What I am trying to tell you, again, is that this action by Obama is something a great many of us are struggling to really make sense of, what with the information that the administration has and has not put out. I'm just trying to point out that it is the 'strangeness', bizarre comes to mind, of this decision and the totality of all that surrounds it which makes it 'appear' to be tasteless (this word from David Gergen) and puzzling. I believe the reaction is as strong as it is because it just seems 'weird' in that it seems diametric to sound and good logic.

The best way to describe it is simply 'what was he thinking'??? And I'm not referring to the actual deal itself, necessarily, but to everything and anything else revolving around it. As such, it has offended sensibilities in a very personal way, hence the outcry.
 
QANTAS077
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:03 am

Quoting Ual777 (Reply 109):
Look, this isn't about what happened 40 years ago. This is about negotiating for a guy that deserted.
Quoting sipadan (Reply 112):
What I am trying to tell you, again, is that this action by Obama is something a great many of us are struggling to really make sense of, what with the information that the administration has and has not put out. I'm just trying to point out that it is the 'strangeness', bizarre comes to mind, of this decision and the totality of all that surrounds it which makes it 'appear' to be tasteless (this word from David Gergen) and puzzling. I believe the reaction is as strong as it is because it just seems 'weird' in that it seems diametric to sound and good logic.

pretty damn simple..the kid was in danger of being executed, if the plan got leaked, and it happened to be picked up by one of his captors and he disagreed, then it'd be lights out for Bergdahl. Anyway, GITMO is about to produce plenty of prisoner swaps/whatever so don't be all gutted by this one..and if Bowe did commit an offence then let him be tried in the appropriate forum, which FOX isn't.

we're probably a little more informed down here simply because it does not jeopardize our security.

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2014/s4020102.htm
 
sipadan
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:36 am

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 113):
pretty damn simple..the kid was in danger of being executed, if the plan got leaked, and it happened to be picked up by one of his captors and he disagreed, then it'd be lights out for Bergdahl. Anyway, GITMO is about to produce plenty of prisoner swaps/whatever so don't be all gutted by this one..and if Bowe did commit an offence then let him be tried in the appropriate forum, which FOX isn't.

we're probably a little more informed down here simply because it does not jeopardize our security.

Sorry, but you're in a different hemisphere and a world away. I would humbly posit that no, you are in fact much less informed 'down under'. I never mentioned FOX, nor do I watch it. What you fail to see (and it's no fault of your own) is the way in which this has been handled here at home. It's too lengthy a summary to plunge into detail, but suffice to say that you appear to be very naive to all the other facets involved.

I mean, when you have a CNN liberal, well-respected presidential historian and political commentator, David Gergen, saying in anger about the optics "it's just tasteless"...well, you've got a pr mess on your hands.

And, no, the 'trade' itself is not 'damn simple', with all due respect. By your logic, all of Gitmo should be released as well as anyone and everyone who has ever done harm to America, crimes against humanity and all. If a deserter (again, I'll choose to believe THE SOLDIERS IN HIS PLATOON WHO TO A MAN HAVE SAID HE DESERTED) is threatened to be killed by his captors, then release whatever his 'captors' demand...just pay the kings ransom and ignore the families, friends and loved ones of those who sacrificed their lives at the hands of these very people about to be set free.those . I mean, why take prisoners at all?????   
 
BN747
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:52 pm

Quoting sipadan (Reply 114):

I mean, when you have a CNN liberal, well-respected presidential historian and political commentator, David Gergen, saying in anger about the optics "it's just tasteless"...we

HAHA! Gergen a Liberal???

Do you know anything about Gergen, look up his past and see who he worked for and many of his positions, he seems liberal nowadays because conservatives have dove right off a cliff and he just isn't ready to take that plunge.

Quoting sipadan (Reply 114):
Sorry, but you're in a different hemisphere and a world away. I would humbly posit that no, you are in fact much less informed 'down under

He's about as informed as 99% of Americans...which is to say, nothing to boast about as most Americans are poorly informed and are reacting to spin versus yet to be released facts.

Some of his unit members claimed he deserted and left a note.
Turns out, he left no such note.
Turns out now reports are that was kidnapped as villagers tried persuade him to get back to his base.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...ergdahl-stumbled-into-their-midst/

It's quite natural to (want to) leave your base after becoming 'comfortable' in the area. I did when I was stationed abroad...now imagine being being in a place that makes Yuma, Arizona look like Manhattan.

The guy was one of those types who spoke the language, clearly took the mental approach to try and engage the people who live there to show the host nation - ALL G.I.s don't sit around and call them Towel Heads and take potshots at their kids. When I was stationed abroad, I engaged with locals and paid for a few kids to go school and tried to learn the language.

Obama NOT telling Congress was very smart, THIS Congress can't be trusted to help Americans better their lives... how the hell can they be trusted keeping mum about a trade this sensitive. What if intelligence 'turned' one of the Five to be a trained spy? Well all loud mouths just put that plan in jeopardy - was the Obama suppose to tell them that too?

No matter what the Taliban says publicly...they are gonna kill these guys, there is no way they are gonna welcome them back with open arms! These are very distrustful people.

Quoting sipadan (Reply 110):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 103):
Why? They are to be released shortly anyway as Gitmo shuts down.

This is not necessarily true.

I know that you think you know more than the guys running this show, but indeed it is.

U.S. Undeterred From Closing Guantanamo
Quoting Ual777 (Reply 109):
Look, this isn't about what happened 40 years ago.
But it is always relevant in precedent sitting situations.

Quoting Ual777 (Reply 109):
This is about negotiating for a guy that deserted.

And yet if that were true...why can't any of you 'He deserted, I'm mad' guys explain why he was promoted twice in absentia?

Cite in history where a known deserter was promoted....waiting.

Quoting Ual777 (Reply 109):
Because I served

So what!
So did I and many others...you own no monopoly on any part of this story. Just a lot of un-thoughtout anger fueled by reports coming from peiple who don't know anything.

Quoting Ual777 (Reply 109):
and I know a lot of other veterans and guys who are still in.

You have to be the ONLY one....  
Quoting Ual777 (Reply 109):
It was well known 5 years ago that he deserted

And yet, none of you guys can explain his receiving promotions while he deserted.

Why don't you wait to see what the man has to say before selling your version of facts.

BN747

[Edited 2014-06-06 05:52:37]
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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CALTECH
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:11 pm

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 89):
I think you're pretty reactionary. You see that "D" by a name and that sets you right off.
Quoting L-188 (Reply 94):
not all are overt
My healthcare
My firearms
My coal furnace
Not allowing market forces to function

And let's us not forget trying to force me out of my pickup truck and into a battery powered tinfoil car!

At least Adolf Hitler had the good sense to ask Ferdinand Porche to design his people's car or Volkswagon.

Obama went to a bankrupt company and their engineers came up with the Volt. I heard fifteen of them got canned for recall issues on another car of there's

But I do agree with you obummer is not a communist, he has way too many fascist elements to be one.

  

Those ism's are only seperated by a matter of degrees, still government take over of citizens lives, no matter which ism is used.

Have to see how this develops. Is getting deeper and deeper.


'Taliban Commanders Say They Found Bergdahl Cursing His Countrymen'
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/bow...ahl-cursing-his-countrymen-n123846

'EXCLUSIVE: Bergdahl declared jihad in captivity, secret documents show'
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014...%7Cdl5%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D484783
You are here.
 
ual777
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:30 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 113):

The military is a political organization like anything else.
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
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seb146
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:40 pm

Quoting sipadan (Reply 110):
The best way to describe it is simply 'what was he thinking'???

He was thinking "leave no man behind." People have been jumping to the conclusion that he will not face any kind of investigation or charges. People just believe what the media tells them. So far, the media has told them:

Bergdhal deserted.
Bergdhal declared jihad.
Bergdhal is Muslim.
Bergdhal's father is Muslim.

From what I have heard from media reports, we know these things because somebody said they heard something. I will wait until the official report to pass judgment on this person.

One thing that really bothers me is all these people mad as hell that his family are Muslim. That is just insane. I don't want to hear people saying "no one ever said that" because it has been documented. Google is your friend.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:44 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 109):
I am told by some people that I do not need to write out a disclaimer but it appears I do....

You don't need a disclaimer, just strategically word things. For example, don't say "the right says ______" say "many pundits on the right say ______." We aren't mind readers, read your posts from the most cynical, opposite point of view and see what assumptions that person would make when reading your posts and correct accordingly. I've known you long enough to know you aren't trying to generalize but I'm telling ya, it really doesn't look that way when I read a lot of your posts

Quoting sipadan (Reply 110):
a great many of us are struggling to really make sense of

When I'm trying to figure out what "the people think" I usually try and ignore the people that will hate the President no matter what and those who will defend him no matter what and see what the remaining think. I'm seeing a lot of centrists and even some on the left view this trade with much curiosity. (Keep in mind, there is a difference between that and making assumptions/calling for action right away)
 
sipadan
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:10 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 117):
When I'm trying to figure out what "the people think" I usually try and ignore the people that will hate the President no matter what and those who will defend him no matter what and see what the remaining think. I'm seeing a lot of centrists and even some on the left view this trade with much curiosity. (Keep in mind, there is a difference between that and making assumptions/calling for action right away)

yes...this is well reasoned, fair and accurate. This is the thrust of my point. THIS PARTICULAR ACTION is puzzling to a vast number of centrists AND left leaning persons. That is all. Facts are still to be revealed (the sooner, the better...as this is one the issues). From ALL that we do know, and doing our best to fairly filter and assess the information that is being disseminated, something just doesn't sit well. Perhaps this will change with greater transparency...I should hope so.

p.s. Susan Rice needs to shut the ****up.

oh, yeah...BN747...is it a habit of your's, you know, taking fragments of and words from quotes that had a CONTEXT implicit. Cherry picking and deliberate misrepresentation...you're an inspiration out there in Beverly Hills!!!!

[Edited 2014-06-06 19:21:28]
 
BN747
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:31 am

Quoting sipadan (Reply 118):

oh, yeah...BN747...is it a habit of your's, you know, taking fragments of and words from quotes that had a CONTEXT implicit. Cherry picking and deliberate misrepresentation...you're an inspiration out there in Beverly Hills!!!!

Beverly Hills is just a geographical location like any other inhabited region, there are conservatives gere, jew-haters, arab haters, racists just like any other place that I might choose to live.

I simply select the most salient points in your replies to which I respond, why bother with rest that doesn't mean anything? ,it's pointless.

Feel free to provide me an example of your charge and prove me wrong.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
sipadan
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:06 am

Quoting sipadan (Reply 108):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 103):
Why? They are to be released shortly anyway as Gitmo shuts down.

This is not necessarily true. Two of the men are currently indicted by the UN War Crimes commission. That the decision was made to NOT hand them over to the tribunal is troublesome. Why has the administration chosen to shirk international law in this particular instance? This question must be answered.
Quoting BN747 (Reply 113):
Quoting sipadan (Reply 110):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 103):
Why? They are to be released shortly anyway as Gitmo shuts down.

This is not necessarily true.

I know that you think you know more than the guys running this show, but indeed it is.
Quoting BN747 (Reply 119):
Feel free to provide me an example of your charge and prove me wrong.

I think I'll take you up on the offer. As one can see, when you re-quote me you conveniently omit my saying WHY this is not necessarily true. You then ONLY quote my saying "this is not necessarily true" and respond by saying "I think you know more than the guys running the show, but indeed it is."

So you have not only quoted me and omitted the ENTIRE CONTEXT of my statement, but have also obfuscated the truth. Are you saying the these two men have not been indicted for war crimes??? Is this your position???
 
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seb146
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:23 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 117):
For example, don't say "the right says ______" say "many pundits on the right say ______."

I put it that way because when I hear something on Fox and see it repeated here ad nauseum, what am I supposed to say? Especially when it is followed with "I don't watch Fox, I follow independent sources."?

Look at ImperialEagle's claim that Bergdahl converted to Islam. Hannity was going nuts over this. But IE claims not to watch Fox.
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casinterest
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:30 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 121):

I think at the end of the day, folks need to remember that Bergdahl volunteered to serve. A lot of folks have not done that , and his own story deserves to be heard .

A lot of folks were involved in this process and at at the end of the day , Bergdahl and the 5 Taliban members are going to wind up where they belong and where they can be judged for all there actions according to the customs they were raised in instill don't like the 5 to 1 trade, but at the end of the day it was what we had, and if some semblance of peace in Afghanistan comes out of this, that would be great.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
sipadan
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:22 am

Quoting BN747 (Reply 113):
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...ergdahl-stumbled-into-their-midst/

From the article you have linked:

" And he seemed to be deliberately heading for Taliban strongholds, they say."

“They tried to tell him not to go there, that it is dangerous. But he kept going over the mountain. The villagers tried to give him water and bread, but he didn’t take it,” said Ibrahim Manikhel, the district’s intelligence chief.

This from the Afghan villagers themselves, according to the post reporter.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 113):
No matter what the Taliban says publicly...they are gonna kill these guys, there is no way they are gonna welcome them back with open arms! These are very distrustful people.

Interesting that you know the Taliban so well. Where did you cultivate such an intimate knowledge to be able state this with such assuredness? Were you a member of the Taliban? Or, is this just your best hunch based on how 'distrustful' you say they are? Or, perhaps sheer ignorance? I don't think the Taliban see themselves as so inherently 'distrustful'. What a fallacious assertion based on a false and prejudiced premise.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 113):
Turns out now reports are that was kidnapped as villagers tried persuade him to get back to his base.

This, from that same article?!? Really? I suggest you reread the article (if needed?). The entire article is about Bergdorf seeking out the Taliban. The last sentence quotes a villager, 5 years later, as saying "when he was abducted." Nothing else in that article suggests anything other than he was hell bent on finding the Taliban. I know, I know...he was high on hash.   
 
Ken777
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Sat Jun 07, 2014 6:06 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 96):

Want to tell all those guys on VA waiting lists that?

If Congress would have spent the money needed a while back then there would be no Vet waiting. Of course that would have required the Tea Party to support Vets and that ain't going to happen as it takes tax dollars. Queer that the Tea Party still wraps themselves up in our Flag and pretends that they are Patriots.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 96):
Socialized medicine kills.

Well, let's see. My sister had medical insurance and went into a major private hospital for surgery. She died after surgery because of medical incompetence by the anesthesiologist and nurses. Biggest cause? Texas has passed tort reform and all the incompetent doctors who have been sued elsewhere find open arms in Texas.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 98):
Expensive private healthcare kills people who can't afford it.

And expensive private healthcare kills people who CAN afford it. Just look at my sister,
 
BN747
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Sat Jun 07, 2014 6:35 pm

Quoting sipadan (Reply 123):
Interesting that you know the Taliban so well. Where did you cultivate such an intimate knowledge to be able state this with such assuredness? Were you a member of the Taliban? Or, is this just your best hunch based on how 'distrustful' you say they are? Or, perhaps sheer ignorance? I don't think the Taliban see themselves as so inherently 'distrustful'. What a fallacious assertion based on a false and prejudiced premise.

Perhaps you need to experience some Taliban Justice to figure out what their like.

You've got to be the only person here pretending that the Taliban is a pinnacle of deep thought, organized judicial justice for all citizens (male & female) and bastion of modernity.

We've been doing it all wrong, we need to model our society after the Taliban because Sipadan says the tons of documentaries, news items, all coverage (good and bad) are all wrong.

Lead the way Sipada, I'm right behind you.

Unlike you, I don't need to go to Arctic Alaska to know that it's cold, people are pretty simplistic in the daily lives like Arkansas Hillbillies. I don't need to be there to guess that drinking is more of a past-time than development of computer sciences and software, You just happen to the type who does...news flash, everyone is not like you - some people are capable of piecing together 'what's going on' much faster than others.

Not.

Quoting sipadan (Reply 123):
The last sentence quotes a villager, 5 years later, as saying "when he was abducted." Nothing else in that article suggests anything other than he was hell bent on finding the Taliban.

Well that one villager who there and pals who were not...leaves you to chose who to believe...doesn't it?

Or wait for Bergdahl to speak... like wiser minds will do.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
windy95
Posts: 2787
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:53 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 101):
Why? They are to be released shortly anyway as Gitmo shuts down.

I thought the community organizer had that on his "first" 100 days list?
 
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seb146
Posts: 23410
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:43 am

Where was the Republican outrage and endless hearings and demands for explanation when Bush released prisoners from Guantanamo? Oh, that's right.... we can't talk about that because we are supposed to be hating Obama and what is in the past is in the past....
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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Boeing717200
Posts: 1926
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:33 pm

Quoting AyostoLeon (Reply 78):

Earlier in the thread I asked whether promotions were automatic as I could not understand why someone suspected of desertion would be promoted. BN747 has also pointed out that Bergdahl was promoted twice since his disappearance. This does seem odd.

American POWs are promoted automatically based on time in service and time in grade. We don't consider whether the person deserted or not. That gets sorted out once they return. The problem in this case is that it's believed he deserted (and appears to be well known that he did in fact desert) and that politicians want to brush any chance of investigation under the rug for political expediency. From a service member standpoint, I'm happy he's home even through we probably paid a bit much for him. That said, I want to see his ass Court-Marshalled and when found guilty tossed in a prison where he can rot.

[Edited 2014-06-10 05:37:49]
240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!
 
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seb146
Posts: 23410
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:53 pm

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 128):
American POWs are promoted automatically based on time in service and time in grade

And there are reports saying he does not accept those promotions and that he wants to be PFC.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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zckls04
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:00 pm

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 128):
The problem in this case is that it's believed he deserted (and appears to be well known that he did in fact desert) and that politicians want to brush any chance of investigation under the rug for political expediency.

This is what's so peculiar about this case. What political expediency?

Politically, I don't see that the administration had a whole lot to gain here. Most of the public had forgotten about Bergdahl anyway. There was basically no upside to the deal from a political standpoint (leaving aside any moral standpoint). They would have known about him being accused of desertion, and realized it would become public knowledge.

Even if you're an ardent critic of the Obama administration, it's usually clear why they do the things that they do. This one leaves me mystified.

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 128):
That said, I want to see his ass Court-Marshalled and when found guilty tossed in a prison where he can rot.

Surely "if" found guilty?
Four Granavox Turbines!
 
wingman
Posts: 4044
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:58 pm

Jon Jon to the rescue again. Some levity, and at least some intelligent insight into the opposing views. If this first link doesn't prove Fox News is the most pathetic news channel on Earth I don't know what will. Here you have Bill O'Reilly claiming that ZZ Top, The Boston Red Sox, and Duck Dynasty are all Muslim terrorists. This sack of brainless crap must've stolen Limbaugh's scrips.

But one thing I will agree on with Fox News is that it is certainly time we overturn two centuries old American principles: No man left behind and innocent until proven guilty.

http://rackjite.com/bergdahli-jon-stewart-bowe-bergdahl-story/

http://news.yahoo.com/daily-show-exp...ma-got-fleeced-bowe-131720847.html
 
bjorn14
Posts: 3595
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:13 pm

Why would Bergdahl send his personal effects home with a note to his parents that said use it if you need to. Was he psychic about his 'capture'? Why did he write an anti-American email to his parents just 3 days before he went missing and his father replying that he "follow your conscience"? Afghan children said they saw an American soldier crawling through the weeds the following morning his platoon were out looking for him. To avoid detection by base guards?

Bergdahl was only classed as a POW in January 2014 before that he was missing/unaccounted for. Why did Karzai refuse to meet with Obama during his surprise visit to the troops less than a month before the deal went down. Was Obama there to drop the $5-6 million in cash for the Haqqani family.

Just askin'
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
Ken777
Posts: 10149
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:26 pm

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 128):
That said, I want to see his ass Court-Marshalled and when found guilty tossed in a prison where he can rot.

There will be a lot of investigations before the Army will be comfortable with a Court Martial. First mental exams, meds the Army made him take (and their side effects, possible PTSD, etc.). This isn't like the Vietnam War days when a lot of different people were pulled in unwillingly. This guy walked in and signed up. The Army needs to find out what changed with this guy and does that impact his situation. That might eve a lot of embarrassment all around.
 
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DeltaMD90
Posts: 8928
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:18 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 132):

I'm not saying this didn't happen but I hate just "hearing something a bunch" and believing it without looking into it. Is there proof of this? I have some personal reasons why I think his desertion was intentional (those reasons go back before this swap happened) but I hate just taking people's words for things
 
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Boeing717200
Posts: 1926
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:01 am

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 130):

No. Not if. When.
240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!
 
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seb146
Posts: 23410
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:21 am

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 130):
This is what's so peculiar about this case. What political expediency?

Anything to make Obama look bad.

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 135):
No. Not if. When.

Really? What ***FACTS*** do you have to back that up?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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Boeing717200
Posts: 1926
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RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:35 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 136):
Really? What ***FACTS*** do you have to back that up?

This isn't a civilian court where you get to say I'm sorry, this won't happen again. I don't care how upset you are that someone ate your Cheerios, you don't walk:


A Pentagon investigation concluded in 2010 that Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl walked away from his unit, and after an initial flurry of searching the military decided not to exert extraordinary efforts to rescue him, according to a former senior defense official who was involved in the matter.

http://news.yahoo.com/us-concluded-2...lked-away-185047684--politics.html

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 133):
There will be a lot of investigations before the Army will be comfortable with a Court Martial.

One the Article 85 charge, it was determined in 2010 that he walked (see above). The issue will be how many other charges will apply, like a 106a. Being a POW doesn't exempt you if you became a POW in the act of violating the UCMJ, although I'd imagine the President is setting things up for him to get pardoned based on all the stink he's raising on this.
240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!
 
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seb146
Posts: 23410
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:23 pm

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 137):
This isn't a civilian court where you get to say I'm sorry, this won't happen again. I don't care how upset you are that someone ate your Cheerios, you don't walk:

And from the same article:

The military investigation was broader than a criminal inquiry, this official said, and it didn't formally accuse Bergdahl of desertion

Without having all the facts, could it be that he though he could help the Afghani people on his down time? I guess we will have to wait for all the facts.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
PHX787
Posts: 7892
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:51 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 95):
Healthcare shouldn't be under private ownership to begin with. State funded healthcare has been proved to be totally superior system many times already.

Are you kidding me?

Quoting seb146 (Reply 94):
Quoting L-188 (Reply 94):
My firearms

Still privatized

If they weren't, I'd be quite worried.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 138):
The military investigation was broader than a criminal inquiry, this official said, and it didn't formally accuse Bergdahl of desertion

That so-called "investigation" is pretty damn flawed.
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
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zckls04
Posts: 2785
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:55 pm

RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:11 pm

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 135):
No. Not if. When.


Based on an unnamed source commenting on a classified report? Thanks Nancy Grace....

In any case the Army specifically refutes your claim. Joint Chiefs Chairman Gen. Martin Dempsey said on 6/3 there will be plenty of time for the Army to determine the circumstances of Bergdahl’s disappearance, but that he remains “innocent until proven guilty.”
Four Granavox Turbines!
 
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DeltaMD90
Posts: 8928
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:59 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 139):
Are you kidding me?

Look at the countries that have it, talk to their citizens. It works in dozens upon dozens of countries, hard to deny that

Quoting seb146 (Reply 138):
could it be that he though he could help the Afghani people on his down time?

UGH. Seb, talk to someone that has been there. That is absolutely not what happened. I thought we went through this... it's not like soldiers, on their free time, can just mosey on over to villages by themselves. It's a warzone. It's not even in the realm of something that could reasonably happen. Deploying to Afghanistan isn't like going to summer camp
 
bjorn14
Posts: 3595
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:11 pm

RE: Bergdahl Released By Taliban

Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:03 pm

And a report today is saying Bergdahl was kicked out of the Coast Guard (didn't even make it through bootcamp) for psych issues.
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein

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